termes contradictory and how the Churches of New-England for they are still the subject of this discourse can binde all their members to bee setled and yet allow some to bee transient I know not Hee must grant either a contradiction in his owne words or prove one in our practise 2. He affirmes we say That whosoever is not a member of such a Church as is before described i. e. A New-England Church is for the time without the visible Church of Christ and quotes Ans to 32 q. pag. 11. That Author is abused for hee saith not Answer that non-members of such a Church as you described i. e. of a N. E. Church are without the visible Church â—ns to 32. q. 38. but that if men be not members of some particular Church or other they may in some respect be said to bee without the power and priviledges of the visible Church as the Answ to 9. pos p. 62. to which this Author points makes it evident Now W. R. I hope knowes we hold there are other particular congregations both in England and else where besides our owne that are true Churches of Christ of any of which if they be members it is sufficient to make them within the visible Church of Christ Yet see how against our expressed judgements plaine words and the minde of his Authors hee would make us odious by laying such a grosse tenent to our charge 3. That whosoever doe not become setled members of our Churches are accounted despisers c. yea wicked and prophane â—nswer Hee againe rowles the same unhappy stone he did once before cap. 3. art 12. but you will say sure his proofes are strong which make him bold to assert this now the second time Therefore I intreate the Reader but to review his proofs which I will relate verbatim Ans to 9. Pos 62. is one of them he brings which saith thus We maintaine communion with all godly persons though they be not in Church fellowship with us and Idem p. 69. To be without Church fellowship is the case of some beleevers and Ans to 32. q. 11. is another of his quoted Authors whose words are these Some Christians that are not without Christ yet are not within any particular Church ☞ These are the Authors and pages he brings to prove the cleane contrary i. e. that we account all non-members wicked and prophane men and yet they directly say Some such are godly persons beleevers Christ c. Yea he hath an expression as he layes it downe exceeding grosse which is this That whosoever doth not become a setled member if possibly he can sinneth And marke what followeth whether he can or no he is accounted prophane and wicked He would make us up for the most absurd men that ever lived that whether mâ—n can possibly for so his word is inioy Church fellowship or no he is counted a prophane man But the blemish will and must needs fall upon himselfe To Marg. of 1. Art hee propounds 5 questions concerning transient members 1. Q. If it be very inconvenient and discommodious to ioyne at present may they not delay a while He answereth we say no but the place to which he points Ans to 32. 〈◊〉 quest p. 38. saith not so but thus A man is alwaies bound to join himselfe to some Church or other if possibly he can Now doth not W. R. know there is a pâ—ssibility of convenience which the Answer must needs meane for it 's a constant and allowed course in New-England for more to forbeare joyning to any Church for a time after they come thither meerly to avoyd discommodious inconveniencies which over hasty joyning sometimes puts men upon 2. Quest Why doe we not give the same liberty to all to be transient Mâ—mbers as we doe to some Ans Because all are not so free to abide with this or that Church where they joyne at present as others are by reason of some strong desires and pre-ingagements of joyning with some other congregation which at present they cannot remove unto or else the other as yet not entred into Church-fellowship and so unfit to receive them at present 3. Quest How doth this agree with the tenour of the Covenant that limits no timâ— Ans There may be and is such a clause put into the Covenant of a transient member viz. during their abode with that congregation Quest 4. How doth this agree with the sense of the Covenant that binds them to aske counsell of the Church in case of removeall Ans I know not what informations he hath received I should know our practise as well as W. R. after my 10. yeers experience having beene present at very many Church-gatherings but I never heard or heard of such a clause put into any Covenant and yet three times in his booke he mentionâ— this Let him learne hereafter 1. to be slow in beleeving informations 2 slower to print them to the world 3. ready to retract them if nor done already He saith Art 5 That if the examiners conceive a man not fit to enter into Church fellowâ—â—â—p thâ—â— he is there staid without any further proceedings He should hâ—ve added only for the present else he leaves the Reader to conceive that such a person is staid from Church fellowship for ever which himsâ—â—â—e knowes to be untrue as appeares by his own words in the 7. Art w â—re he saith that such a Person is staid only for a time whiles all things are cl ared To his Margent Art 7. That if the party be a Woman or weake who is to be admitted then their examination are taken more privately Answer Is not this contradictory to what he said Chap. 3 Art 6. ☜ That the declaration of their knowledge and grace must be made in publique before all the Church though never so many Now to presse all to make their declaration before the whole Assembly yet to accept of some weaker ones doing of it more privatly which indeed is the truth are a contradiction Here he makes two objections Objection 1 How shall the Church know the fitnesse of such i. e. as are examined in private Answ By the testimony of such godly men whom they betrust with their triall who though they have not absolute power to determine yet making such report to the Church as they accept the Church proceede to admit them â—bject Why is this favour shewen to some not to others is not this to be partiall contrary to 1 Tim. 5.21 Answ Partiality is to respect the Person not the cause here the cause is respected not the Person or the Person for the cause Some being more weake and fearfull we rather tender as Jacob would not overdrive the feabler sort of Ewes and lambes lest they should miscarry Art 9. He reports That infants of parents that are no members are accounted to be without the visible Church and in the same estate with the Children of Turkes and Heathens c.
in Christ Jesus leade thee by the hand into all truth and peace Thine T. W. The Reader may take a short view of some Particulars in W. R. his Narration As they are made to appeare in his Booke by the Page and Line as followeth Vnfound passages Vntrue Relations Falsified quotations Page Line Page Line Page Line 4 25 1 15 17 6 5 20 2 21 18 20 6 7. 24. 37 5 20 19 14. 24 7 5. 15 6 23 20 24 8 28 20 3. 32. vlt. 24 35 9 whole page 25 2 last 25 18. 23 18 26 39 10 25 23. 31. 40 24 39 37 whole pag. Â 26 5 29 17. 28 38 whole pag. Â 32 3 last 36 28 51 whole pag. Â 57 16 40 15 56 9 58 1. 2. 27 52 1. 9. 26 57 5. 10. vlt. 59 22 53 2. 11. 22 59 6. 33 60 23 c. 54 3. 10 60 11 61 38 58 33 62 11. 25. ad fin 62 11. 25. ad fin 61 21. 26 66 4 last 63 1. 9 64 1 9. 25 67 6. 12. 22 64 14 65 13 ad finem 68 4. 7. 12 67 25. 18 There are some things in W. R. his Narration that carry a face of contradiction I propound them to his review in his owne words sense and pages Thus they stand That Sacraments are to be Administred to the Members of the same Church only Narration p. 35. Art 5. vide p. 38. Art 4. The Churches do and may mutualiy partake each with other in the Sacraments p. 37. Art 31. p. 10. Art 7 That They conceive some to bee true Christians whether they be in Church estate or no. p. 33. Art 1. Whosoever becomes not a setled member of a Church they account him wicked prophane and a gracelesse person p. 29. Art 1. p. 12. Art 12. He saith concerning the judgements practises of the Churches generally in New-England That They may and doe constitute new Churches without the consent of the Christian State p. 20. last line p 49. Art 2. latter end of the Marg. Before they doe enter into Church estate notice is first given thereof to the Magistrate or the Christian State p. 21. Art 4. And by a law of the State none can enter without such knowledge given to the Magistrate p. 21. Art 2. That They may and doe set up new Churches in the midst of and against the mind of the Churches p. 49. Art 2. and latter end of Margent Notice is given thereof to the neighbouring Churches that such as please may be present p. 21. Art 4. That The Church-Covenant is that whereby all the Members of the Society are united to Christ p. 12. Art 1. Many are within the Church-covenant that are not within the Covenant of Grace and so not united to Christ p. 14. Art 3. That The Churches of New-England are of one and the same way in Discipline without any materiall difference p. 1. Art 1. They are not of the same way but sometimes of 2. contrary waies sometimes of 3. severall waies at once and that in very materiall points p. 10. Art 8. p. 16. Art 8. p. 13. Art 3. and 4. p. 27. Art 11. Objection 1 But we in New-England goe different waies so the contradictions come from our selves not from him Answ No for We are all of the same way and differ not in any materiall point as himselfe plainely saith chap. 1. Art 1. 2 His Narration speakes what the Churches in New-England doe generally as Title p. 1. Now it is impossible that they can generally goe two wayes at once Objection 2 But our writers say so and hee speakes according to them Answ Then let him make this appeare and that will bee hard to doe for his quoted Authors speake the selfe same thing An Answer to VV. R. his Narration of the Opinions and Practises of the Churches lately erected in New-England An Answer to the PREFACE IT would grieve a tender heart to heare this man call God and his Conscience to witnesse how highly he honours and loves those that are in Church waies and by and by to assault with horrible untruths and bitter invectives the Churches of New-England whom God hath beene pleased to honour in the hearts of thousands of his pretious Saints which one would thinke hardly credible that any that goeth under the notion of honesty much lesse of godlinesse should venture to doe He blames the Brethren of the Independent way as he stiles them that were and are in London for breaking a solemne agreement to produce a narrative of their Doctrine and practise and yet did not yea would not performâ— it 1. Some of us professe solemnely we never so much as heard of any promise therefore were farre enough from breaking it Answ why then doth W. R. lay it upon the Independent Brethren in London without exception 2. What was done by any of them herein was freely from themselves as I am informed by them that by some manifestation of their Judgements and practises they might cleare themselves from misapprehensions and mistakes so that if they did it not themselves were like to suffer most 3. This they made performance of in their late Apologie so farre as might satisfie in a rationall way but if hee expected more where lies the fault 4. If they did not this so soone as hee would have had them let him know the extreame distractions of these times and the publique service of some of these brethren who were imployed by the State for a good space together might justly hinder greater things then this Now see what little cause the Narratour had to cast such a blot on the names of his Honored Brethren as he calles them Hee saith Many wâ—re drawne aside their Churches and Ministry slighted neglected deserted yea contumeliously and scornefully reproached as Antichristian Babylonish false and Null c. Answ 1. Such contemptuous speeches reproachfull carriages cast upon our Brethren of the Churches here neither are or ever were allowed by us yea our owne examples practisings writings doe and we hope ever shall beare witnesse against such loose and lavish spirits and practises And can any man then justly impute them unto us Psal 11.3 May we not say with the Psalmist If the foundations be cast downe what hath the innocent done 2. They are not alone in these reproches our selves also are fellow-sufferers with them herein from divers Sectaries now in London whose usuall tones dialects these words he mentions are not the voyce of Independents That some of our way contrary to our promise and Pactions have impetously both in Pulpit and Presse laboured to promote the popular governement to make all men disrelish and abominate the Presbyterian way Answ 1 A sad complaint if true But to shew how farre from this spirit and practise we have beene consider first how loath wee were to appeare in the case who though we had bookes of this subject ready for the presse yet by joynt consent suppressed them
AN ANSWER TO W. R. HIS NARRATION of the Opinions and Practises of the Churches lately erected in Nevv-England Vindicating those Godly and Orthodoxall Churches from more then an hundred imputations fathered on them and their Church way by the said W. R. in his Booke Wherein is plainely proved 1. That the grounds of his Narration are sandie and insufficient 2. That the maner of his handling it unloving and irregular 3. That the matter of it ful of grosse mistakes divers contradictions 4. That the quotations extremely wrested and out of measure abused 5. That his Marginall notes impertinent and injurious By THOMAS WELDE Pastour of the Church of Roxborough in NEVV-ENGLAND Jude 10. They speake evill of things they know not Prov. 18.17 He that is first in his owne case seemeth just but his neighbour commeth after and searcheth him This is Licensed and Entered according to Order LONDON Printed by Tho Paine for H. Overton and are to be sold at his shop entring into Popes-Head Alley out of Lumbard-Streete 1644. THE EPISTLE TO THE REDAER THere was a law in Israell Deut. 22.18 19 that if any man did bring an ill name upon a Virgin of Israell the matter was to come before the Elders and hee was to bee chastised and amerced an hundred shekells of silver There is one W. R. if thou knowest the man that hath brought many ill reports not upon one Virgin but all the Virgin-Churches of New-England When thou seest him do so much as bring him forth to Answer this law Tell him wee purpose to try an Action with him and have satisfaction from him And if hee saith hee hath not raised these reports himselfe but had them from others Then tell him again from us that cannot satisfie for we have learned from divine and humane lawes that if any bee taken reporting of slaunders as wee shall abundantly shew hee hath do◠his Narrative he may be charged as the raiser of ◠〈◊〉 hee can cleare himselfe by bringing such Authors into light as will owne them Dut. 17.6 2 Cor. 13.1 1 Tim. 5.19 But if he will not or cannot wee must lay them at his owne doore It s for all the severall reports in his booke brought against us and our wayes we expect the rule of Moses and the Apo-stle Paul that in the mouth of two or three witnesses and not under every matter should be established to produce Barrow Browne Robinson c. for Authors for they were dead before New-England Churches were borne or H. W. T. P. and I know not what private letters lying by him in his study for wee know not their voyce nor let him say it was told me as he often doth for wee protest against such testimony nor I was informedso c. for sama est mendax and prejudice hardly speakes well of any Tell him wee will goe to aged Paul hee was a good Divine to bee our Vmpire to determine what witnesse we must have in a case of accusation and to his verdict wee will stand which is set downe plainely 1 Tim. 5.19 Three things more let me say to the reader and I have done 1. Wonder not this Answer staid so long for it had certainly taken his narrative by the heele but that some speciall providence whose distracted lines intercepted the truth is I thought it should neede no other Answer then it selfe untill I perceived some ill effects of it 2 But why doe I undertake this worke Answer 1. I am one of the nearest kinsmen to those Churches of any other man in these parts and therefore I take my selfe bound to the name of my Brethren in a righteous way and not let it die through my neglect 2. Few or none are here have had more experience of New-England Church courses then my selfe through many yeares continuance with them and to whom I am returning when God makes way and am therefore able to speake on certainty and with conscience where W. R. departs from the truth in his relations 3. I have beene pressed by word of mouth and sundry letters to doe it therefore if I should hold my peace when I am called to speake and see so many innocent Churches suffer I should not lift up my face to God nor my Brethren there God knowes my spirit how exceeding loath I was to controvert with a Brother though but a defendant and to uncover his nakednesse but when God calls I am bound with Moses when he saw the Ebrew did wrong to his Brother to say why smitest thou thy fellow Exod. 2.13 3. Touching the answer it selfe some things I would say 1 I thinke it not meete to answer all I could nor to every particular especially in his Marginall extravagances that would be too tedious For our principall passages being answered unto the rest will fall of themselves 2. Nor to answer any thing in his booke so oft as hee repeates it for divers things are fetched over by him some three some foure severall times what his reasons are himselfe can best give account 3. Neither is it possible for me to answer the sayings of his private letters lying by him such a ground of Church stories as I never heard of because I know neither who they are nor what their owne words are or if I did were it materiall 4. Thou seest I have a three fold worke to answer 1. his Articles 2 his quotations 3 his Margent All which I have indeavored faithfully as in Gods presence to doe what oversight or infirmity hath passed my penne therein I crave thy pardon for we are weake men and God knowes too apt to forget our selves in greater things then these 5. What I here write is onely from my selfe if any weakenesse appeare impute it not I pray thee to the case in hand or our Churches iudgements there but to my owne frailty rather 6. Nor is it my scope to discusse the points of Discipline that worke is in abler hands but I looke upon his booke as an historicall narration and accordingly I frame my answer 7. Though he brings not the words of any of his Authors cited which had been fairer and might have kept him in closer bonds yet I have done it for him especially in the last sixe or eight Chapters that you may iudge whether hee hath dealt fairely with them or no. 8. When I recite W. R. his words in his narration you will see I have dealt candidly with him either mentioning his very words or so many of them as containe their full strength whereto my answer tends 9. When at any time in my answer I say such an Article or such a clause is untrue or is false I am not willing to impute the falsity thereof to the Authors knowledge I would iudge otherwise of him then so but to the thing it selfe asserted which may be done through his misinformation or mistake I will say no more but commit thy spirit to the wise guidance of the Father of lights who
haply to the great detriment of our cause for that wee were unwilling to blow a fire 2. When we did appeare in Pulpit or Presse whether it was without instigation or no and how sparing wee have beene ever since untill some late forced replyes and how inoffensive in our carriages and preachings we leave to all godly to judge 3. Instance but in the Holland Brethrens Apologie was it Impetuously done was it A MOCK NARRATIVE A MEERE GVLL as this man most abusively styles it was it not rather full of Peaceablenesse modesty and candor and seasonably needefull as that Reverend man affirmed in Print 4. Doth not W. R. know that about this time of promises and Pactions or a while after our Brethren of the Presbyterian way did write a Letter into Scotland with many of their hands to it telling the Ministers there they did approve of their Governement and would joyne in the furtherance of it Now for him to binde our hands and seale up our mouthes and then underhand at the same time to fore-determine the matter and bee ingaged in that way before any solemne dispute and yet to accuse us for breaking Pactions seemes neither rationall nor faire Other things I shall speake to the Preface afterwards in answer to the booke Onely this he will make the Reader beleeve to forestall him that there are some seeming contradictions in our Tenets apparent repugnances to the letter of Scripture or light of common sense But what reall contradictions are in his Narrative and manifest repugnances in his Animadversions to Scripture rules light of reason and common sense too by the helpe of God I shall make to appeare but with a sad heart I must tell him that such things should be written by a Brother whom we have so much esteemed and reverenced but seeing now it is done rather then so many pretious Saints and Churches should suffer wrongfully I am forced to uncover If others be rightly informed and himselfe convinced I have my ends To the Narration in generall AS he saith hee had laid by the thoughts of it a good while through many discouragements So I conceive if he had cast them by for ever made the place of conception their grave he had dealt better for the truth and himselfe But he is very angry for want of Narratives One he must have and one he will have be it right or wrong and if neither New-England nor Holland Brethren bee worth a Narrative let him come he will frame one himselfe And this shall be no MOCK NARRATIVE NO MEERE GVLL as the Holland Brethren produced but a more solid thing Now what it is will appeare if we weigh three things That the grounds on which hee builds it are sandie and insufficient The manner of his proceeding unloving and irregular The matter of it 1. Full of grosse mistakes contrarieties to the truth and contradictions to it selfe 2. His quotations abused extremely and wrested 3. His Marginall notes very scandalous and offensive And according to this method we will proceede and undertake to make all these particulars good in our answer First for his grounds You would thinke that the grounds on which all his worke is founded and all New-England Churches taxed had neede bee sound even adequate or else hee will not prove himselfe a wise builder But they are these three 1. Our owne printed Bookes 2. Private letters 3. Other good intelligences as himselfe saith in his Title For the printed bookes which he quotes they are the writings of some godly and learned men there But that these be rightly conceived know 1. These bookes five in number are not written from all the Elders two of them but from one only Another from some few none of them from all 2. Not written to the Churches here as a Platforme of our practise but sent as an answer to some one or more Brethren in England that desired satisfaction to some quaetees of their owne whereof W. R. himselfe was one 3. Nor intended by them for the presse much lesse to be made a standard to prove our Churches opinions and waies by but published by some well-minded here without their knowledge yea against the mindes of some of them Yet if he had kept close to these in his narration he had saved his credit and my paines but you shall see he hath so abused and wrested them I dare say in wel-neere an hundred places that his assertions are not their sayings and words but his owne and they will leave him to quit himselfe as well as he can For as Scripture it selfe the rule of all things abused is no Scripture so the writings of men perverted are no more theirs This we shall make plentifully appeare Sundry private letters lying by him as hee saith sent from New-England but names only two letters of their names are another ground of his story And whatsoever any one of these writs though never so privately and unknown to any other man in any of all the Churches must needs be the opinion of all the Churches in New-England But to shew the invalidity yea and impossibility of this to be a good ground Consider 1. These are incompetent proofes and liable to great and just exceptions For 1. Some there are contrary to us in their opinions Antinomians Familists Antichurchians c. and even some of his cited letters as neer as we can gather are from some of these 2. Others that write letters from thence are weake in judgement not understanding what the Churches hold or not able to expresse aright what they themselves understand are all these fit to be the Churches interpreters Doth not W. R. himselfe in his preface say Scribimus omnes indocti doctique 3. Others may be novices not well verst in our way nor ripe to give the Churches verdict 4. Some others haply are but in part of our judgement and not come off fully to the Churches practises there 5. Others are prejudiced against the place and persons and prejudice himselfe knowes can hardly speake well And we know diverse such have wrote letters which t is like are fallen into his hands Therefore these cannot be built upon for competent witnesses And whereas he saith in his Postcript pag. 50. Object That these letters come from Members of Churches and many from Ministers of the Word It is answered That Members of Churches and Ministers too Ans may be liable to some or other and some of them possibly to many of the said exceptions Neither is it in our power nor in any Church in the world to cure all their Members or Ministers either of their distempers for if it were you would not suffer your own Churches in many of their Members and Ministers to be so infected with sundry grosse errors as they are 2. A testimonie against whole Churches had need be sure that men may trust unto it But how can we be assured 1. Whether such letters as he cites were ever written from New-England
or no for I have good ground to question ☜ because he thrusts in T. G. to I. G. amongst his New-England letters and yet these men never came there though himself faith in postscript pag. 51. ult l. That his letters come from Members of our Churches in New-England And as he adds some so he may adde more for ought I know 2. If such letters were sent how can we be assured that such expressions as he reports are in those letters 2. Or such a scope as he puts upon them to be collected from those expressions All these must be cleared before we can ground any thing upon them But W. R. tells us so Ans So he tells us other stories in this booke that are as far from truth as Old-England is from New which wee have no faith to credit 2. If he hath so extreamly mistaken the printed letters which he knowes we can come at to peruse how can we or any else be assured that he hath not more abused his private letters which no eye but his owne may see 3. Suppose none of the mentioned exceptions can be had but that the writers of the letters be as honest sound able men as can be imagined and suppose we could be assured of the particulars recited yet all this will not serve because they are but single men and write as private persons their own thoughts not as be trusted by any commission from the Churches to write their common Judgements Therefore no ground to esteeme their letters of such authenticall force unlesse he can prove they were allowed by the Churches or were men Apostolicall that could not erre in writing 4 If this be a good ground to prove Churches judgements by private letters marke what absurdities will ensue 1. That we must believe that the Churches of New-England denie a power of votes ordinarily to the people because Mr. Parker a Pastour there wrote so And so of necessity we must believe a falshood 2. That if W. R. and two or three more should write into New-England of their allowance of the lawfulnesse of an imposed Common Prayer booke then we may write and print it for so doth W. R. that the Churches and Ministers in Old-England doe generally allow such impositions 3. Then any few envious or malicious persons in a Church may bring a scandall unavoydable upon any Church in the world if what they say and hold should be accounted the Churches judgement where they live 4. Then the Churches of England are all Antinomian and Familisticall because on our knowledge such letters have been written from some in these Churches as professedly mainetaine such opinions how absurd these conclusions would be let any ind fferent man judge 5. Yea to sinke this unreasonable dealing of his ITS IMPOSSIBLE that this should be a sound discovery of the Churches judgement and practise there ☞ because many of these letters cited speake contrary one to another as himselfe well knowes and his Narration fully expresseth yet all the Churches in New-England saith W. R. himselfe in his 1. pag. are of one and the same way in Church Government and what may be said of any one may be believed of all Therefore it 's impossible that his letters which speake contraries can be a sufficient ground of testimonie for our Church way which is but only one And for him to produce them as a proofe of what they cannot possible make good appeares not only A SEEMING CONTRADICTION but against light of COMMON SENSE which he falsly imputes to us but we truly to him 6. Lastly we appeale for a conclusion of this Argument from W. R. in a distemper to the same man in his right minde to tell us now ingenuously if this be a good Argument by one mans writing to prove the Churches iudgement No saith W. R. pag. 3. line 4. of this very booke it is not for such a booke saith he called our way of the Churches proves not that they hold a platforme of Discipline in New-England and why Because it was compiled by one particular man and not consented to by the rest What can be more full But he leanes not upon the testimony of any one letter Object but produceth divers letters for the proofe of every particular If he did so it were insufficient as is proved Answ but he often produceth one single private letter alone without any other evidence at all as I can make appeare in above fifty severall places throughout the booke But he will tell us that he produceth not these private letters and manuscripts by themselves alone to prove our judgements Object and practises in New England but as ioyned with the printed bookâ—s or papers to make the storie compleat But it is not so neither Ans ☞ for in abundance of places he produceth none of the printed bookes at all for proofe but only â—hese private letters as his only ground As Cap. 1. Art 2. Cap. â—â— Art 2. medio and Art 4. And Art 5. And Art 11. Cap. 4. Art 9. And pag. 17. pag. 18. pag. 19. Cap. 5. Art 2. And Art 3. And Art 4. And Art 5. And Art 6. And Art 7. And Art 8. And Art 9. And Art 10. And Art 11. Cap. 6. Art 10. Cap. 7. Art 4. Art 5. Art 6. Art 7. Cap. 9. 9. And above twenty more mentioned in the Margent and the postscript Therefore it 's evident he grounds a very great part of his Narration upon these private writings which are altogether insufficient as we have proved upon demonstrated reasons But he was not there himselfe an eye-witnesse to behold things Object he produced the best grounds he had for his Narrative What calling had he more then others Ans to make any Narratives of things done 3000. Miles off which he knew no better he should rather have let it alone then abuse the truth the Churchâ—s and all dabble himselfe upon such slight grounds as these are But see his third ground he hath OTHER GOOD INTELLIGENCES that is by word of mouth 1. Who can witnesse he hath such Intelligence Answer 2. That this is GOOD Intelligence 3. Where are those good Intelligencers let them come face to face and be tryed but if they be peeping behind the doore we owne them not for good Intelligencers Thus we have seene the unsoundnesse of this foundation whereon he builds his story and the Axlettee on which all the burden lies being thus broken the NARRATIVE must needs fall without any further opposition But as his grounds are weake so the manner of his procedings is 1. Unloving 2. Irregular 1. UNLOVING Witnesse 1. All those calumnies he strives with all his might though to no purpose to cast upon his so much HONOVRED BRETHREN from the beginning of his Preface to the end of his Postscript 2. His crosse-grained animadversions where are so many quibs gibs scoffes and far-fetched collections to make New-England men and their wayes odious to the world together with his darke
and doubtfull expressions often dropt out which may easily be taken by the Reader in the worst sense As though â—e reserved his evasions if he should be put to it 3. His style full of bitternesse that a man may know who the writeris though he put downe but two letters of his name 4. That he will against all â—â—mmon sense needs make us as much differing from the Churches â— England as the most rigid Brownists yea in some respects more and this hee strongly contends for though we professedly in our writings preachings practises manifest the contrary and testifie as oft as occasion serves the great dislike of their rigid Separation 5. As he hath cast us out of his own heart so he labours to bring all men out of conceit with us the Churches here the Parliament the Assembly the whole Kingdome 3. Kingdomes yea all other Churches and Nations As if we and all our Church-courses were a compound of absurdity and folly But in this as in the rest we commit our case to God that judgeth righteously who can cleare us as the light Psal 37. ☞ As his dealing is unloving so irregular for it's directly against the Apostles rule 1. Tim. 5.19 AGAINST AN ELDER RECEIVE NOT AN ACCVSATION BVT BEFORE TVVO OR THREE VVITNESSES Where it 's plain that Timothy himselfe must not receive so much as one accusation against any one Elder of a Church but before two or three witnesses that are able to make it good so tender is God of the names of his Ministers But W. R. so far forgets himselfe and this blessed rule that he receives 1. Not one but MANY accusations as his booke shewes 2. Not against some one Elder but in a manner ALL THE ELDERS YEA AND MEMBERS TOO AND ALL THE CHVRCHES IN N. E. 3. And all this not upon report of TVVO OR THREE VVITNESSES but some one single testimonie 4. Yea not so much as one single witnesse produced BEFORE us as the text requires but onely hee himselfe saith hee hath such and such a letter by him tells him so So that upon the point there is not one legall witnesse but all the testimonie is involved upon himselfe only a most incompetent man and unfit to be an Informer an accuser and a witnesse too much lesse in the roome of two or three witnesses 5. And which is yet more the doth not only receive these accusations but reports them to others yea divulge and print them to the whole world 6. And all this too with as great infamy dammage and wrong before the Churches and Kingdome as may be imagined and at such a time also as never was in our age when as the Parliament and assembly both sit at once consulting about Church-Discipline 7. And he staies not in the bare reporting these accusations but So reports them as one labouring to draw all others into the like errour of beleeving them 8. And which is worse then all the rest he brings such reports against us as 1. It 's nothing to him whether they be true or false 2. Yea which he certainely knowes are false The former of these I prove from his owne words in his Postscript ☜ pag. 50. I undertake not saith he to report things in New-England as really there they are WHETHER THEIR REPORTS BE TRVE OR FALSE IS NOTHING TO ME. The latter appeares in that in sundry places of his booke he relates things that are ex diametro contrary each to other both which he well knowes cannot possibly be true and yet lets both stand still on record against us and then infers bitter invectives in his animadversions from such contrary reports You will stand amazed at this dealing I suppose which I conceive I am bound to discover that the world may see how we are abused by him and cleare us in their apprehensions Thus for his grounds and manner of dealing I come now to the maner of his Narration Answer to the Title A Narration of some Church-courses generally held in opinion and practised by the Churches lately erected in New-England Answer LEt the Reader mind well the latitude of W. R. his undertaking in his booke It is to make a Narration not of some particular mens practises here and there in New-England but of the opinions and practises of whole Churches there and not of some one or two Churches for that is too narrow still for his scope but of THE CHVRCHES in New-England indefinitely And that you may know for certain he means to tell you what all the Churches there doe hold and practise and not sometimes but in their constant course he saith plainly they are the Church courses GENERALLY held by the Churches in New-England which he will declare So that though he speakes but of some Church courses yet those he doth mention must be such as are generally held and practised by the Churches there The performance of which in its latitude let him know we expect and if he comes short of this unlesse he revoke his title he will doe us wrong Answer to CHAP. I. THe summe of Art 1. and its Margent is That the Churches of New-England being the same in Discipline with Plymouth and Plymouth having their Principles from Mr. Robinson it is to be inquired whether we be not all of the way of the Separatists Answer 1. As in our judgements we much differ from them so in several particulars of moment we practise what the Separatists properly so called will not doe as hearing preaching praying in the Assemblies in England and also in private commmunion with them c. 2. Though we should practise some of the same things they doe in Discipline doth that make the way evill simply because they doe it First he must prove that the Separatists practise nothing right at all or else that we must not because they doe it 3. Himselfe hath fully answered for us Preface pag. 3. who saith to this effect Though in Discipline men generally act like others he meanes the Separatist yet if in their opinion of these practises and in the groundâ— of them they not only differ but stiffly â—ppsoâ— them the just repute of such persons is to be preserved We need looke no further to cleare us from censure then to W. R. himselfe For it 's well know ne we differ from them in our opinions and grounds of our practise and how we hate opposed rigid Separatists in that very point let our own writings witnesse Discourse of Covenant 36. 37. 38. 52. Here note once for all he saith that the churches in New-England are of one and the same way in Discipline without any materiall difference And this he would have remembred all along his booke I hope he will not start from this afterwards I pray him to mind it He saith Art 2. We have no Platformes agreed upon amongst us 1. We hold it not unlawfull to have a Platforme of Church Government i. e. a confession of the Discipline of Christ Ans
Art 10. â—sw Consider first 1 The Gifts Graces and abilitie of discerning that were in the Apostles above any Minister now living who as they were able to preach with lesse time of studie so to dispatch and turne over weighty businesse with more speede and dexterity then we are 2 The extraordinary wonderfull and visible stroke of God upon the spirits and hearts of men that heard Peter at that time the meeting the language their understanding of it Gods assistance of Peter and blessing on the word all extraordinary Such a day such a Sermon such effects as never were before nor like to be to the end of the world so the power of God was remarkable in their conversion so also in their expression and demonstration of it So that there needed little triall when God spake himselfe from Heaven Answer to CHAP. VI. HE reports to recite such things onely as most neede Answer and let the rest passe Art 1. 2. That we hold that Christ hath invested with all power any that are in Church-fellowship that though they be all illiterate yet they may make examine all their Officers unmake depose them when they see cause so to doe and preach expound and apply the word with all Authority yea and doe it without any refâ—rence at all to their Officers as Officers when they have them â—nsw If I did delight in retorting I could say of these words as hee of Holland Ministers Apologie They are a meere Gull for almost so many words so many mistakes The Narratour should have done well first to have proved all the Churches and Ministers in New-England men out of their wits and voide of common sense and then hee might more easily have made the world beleeve they hold and practise such a congeries of absurdities and impossibilities For else many of them there being well known to bee learned godly and sober men no wise men will beleeve him that they can hold that 1. Illiterate men can examine Pastors fitnesse 2. Depose them at pleasure 3. Preach expound and apply the word with all authority 4. And that without any reference to their Officers at all 5. And which is mâ—st strange that Christ himselfe hath invested these illiterate ones with all power to doe all these things For 1. It is a received practise amongst us that when any combine into a Church there is one at least of them indued with able parts of humane and divine learning that either hath been a Minister in our native countrey or is fit to be one amongst them who usually and frequently preacheth to them after they are united So that al of them are not men illiterate ☜ and W. R. himselfe knowes this to be true for the Answer to the 32. quest 42. which is very page hee here quotes directly saith this in so many words 2. That those illiterate men do examine their Ministers abilities and that we hold they ought is another great mistake for so wee should put men upon a worke beyond their reach which were idle whereas the truth is that if the sufficiâ—ncy of such men as they intend to call into office bee not well knowne to them they use to call in the helpe and assistance of Elders in other Churches to surveigh their abilities and to informe them therein that thereby as well as by their owne experience of them and discerning of their gifts they may be able to give in their suffrage for election when the time comes 3. For their unmaking and deposing them againe when they see cause Wee hold and professe it a thing most injurious to Jesus Christ himselfe in heaven to his Ministers on earth and such a thing as not only Christ will summon Churches at the great day to answer unto but our Churches there will also expect satisfaction from them for it if they should thus depose Ministers as he saith when they see cause unlesse Christ himselfe shall see good cause to allow their fact to be done according to the rules of his owne word Wee are so farre from holding this that wee protest against such practises And to shew how wary wee are in this point no Church dares trust her owne judgement but our manner is as his quoted Authour speakes Answer to 34. q. of p. 41. Our practise is in removall of Ministers to have counsell and assistance from sister Churches 4. Whereas he saith also That we hold that men illiterate should preach with all authority which is a worke and a taske for the ablest Ministers to performe is as farre from us as any of the other For though wee deny not but in some case some able judicious experienced Christians may humbly soberly when necessity requires as in the want of Ministers being invited thereunto dispence now and then a word of exhortation to their brethren This is farre enough from Preaching in an ordinary way with all Authority which are words of his owne put in without any ground 5. But for him to adde that we hold they may thus preach when they have Officers and that without any reference at all to them is extreamly contrary to our practise and furthest from the truth For this would directly crosse Christ his institution of calling Officers in his Church and make meere cyphers of them whose Office it is not onely to preach but to rule and governe the Assembly to open the doore of speech to any in the congregation and to shut it up by silence so that none may so much as speak without his allowance ☞ And this expression of his is contrary to his owne Narration in Art 8. where he saith That some of the Acts we ascribe to our Ministers in Office are to declare unto their people the minde of God and to moderate in Church-meetings yet here he speakes cleane contrary to himselfe and the truth also ☞ 6. For him to adde That wee hold that Christ hath invested these illiterate men with all power to doe all these things so farre beyond their power and all ordinary possibility contrary to all rule and to his owne institution is to put upon us one of the grossest absurdities that ever was heard of even to make Christ crosse himselfe and to be a patron of confusion in his owne house by investing them with all power to oppose his owne rules of Order Now let us see what grounds our Nartatour hath to lay all these charges against us You will thinke sure his proofes are strong or hee would never have ventured to blemish so many thousands of Gods faithfull I servants in such sore accusations as these True hee quotes many and that I might see his bottom I have surveied all the printed Authors in every page quoted ☞ and I solemnly professe it that none of these particulars rehearsed as hee hath laid them downe much lesse in them all will any of them beare him out and I desire the Reader to try whether
of error delivered before all the people So as it is a scandall to the people a reproach to the Minister c. all this is his own addition Then for the other cited Author Answer to 32 q. 78 he deales more grosely with him then the former who is in a manner point-blanck against him yet hee boldly gives him up for an Author his words are these we never knew any Minister that did call upon the people thus to doe i. e. to propound questions and such calling upon them is farre from us some thinke the people have a liberty to aske a question upon very urgent and weighty cause none iudge the ordinary practise of it necessary but if not meekely and wisely carried inconvenient if not utterly unlawfull and therefore such asking of questions is seldome used in any in most Churches neere True it is in the times of the opinions some were bold in this kinde but these men are long since gone the Synod and Sermons have reproved this disorder so that a man may now live from one end of the yeere to another in these congregations and not heare any man opening his mouth in such kind of questions These the Authors words ☞ Now good reader do us the favour to give righteous judgement whether these words cited by him make for him or against him where is 1 giving leave 2 a course of giving leave 3 to any 4 to obiect and urge pro and con and 6 which is horribly grosse to implead the Minister of error at the first dash and that openly before all the people c. Whereas his own cited Authors tells him the contrary 1 That it is done not often but seldome 2 Not many questions but a question 3 Not upon sleight but weighty and very urgent grounds 4 Not rashly and boldly but wisely and meekely 5 And this not perâ—mptorily concluded of by all but some only thinke they have a liberty 6 And not that it is now so much done but was for a time by the bold opinionist who are now chased away long agoe See what a vast gulfe betwixt the Author and W. R. Now for him to reade over distinctly all these expressions in this booke for that answer was written to himselfe from godly men in New-England yet to produce it as a proofe for his Art and the Marg. which in common sence is contrary to it I stand amazed at it and wonder with what face he could print it or having done it how he can let his book be kept from the fire thus long Yet further note our Narratour undertakes to relate only such Church-courses as are generally by the Churche in New-England practised as pag. 1. title How then can he with honesty bring in this asking of questions amongst such kind of generall Church courses of ours whereas his Author plainely saith this asking of questions is not Generally practised nor by all the Churches but sildome in any Church and in most Churches never at all and that one may live as he saith from one end of the yeere to another in our congregations and not here any man open his mouth in such kind of questions What will not W. R. boldly attempt against his brethren of the independent way and their Churches that cites these very words I have related to prove such Church courses in New-England as are generally practised amongst us Answer to CHAP. XIIII TO Marg. on the Title Some saith he grow shie of the word independent some utterly renounce it yet most owne it Answer If the word bee rightly taken as in Answer to 32. q. 46. it 's expounded for one Church that is not under the power of another or in subjection to a Presbyterie but as having received power from Christ to governe her selfe according to his lawes Then all accord to it But if the word Independent bee abusively taken as it is often with the vulgar for such a Society as are neither subject to Magistracy nor regard the counsel of other Churches but are a conceipted and selfe-sufficient people that stand onely on their owne leggs Then wee have cause to be shie of a word that may render us odious without cause To Marg. of 1 Art That wee have store of imperative Churches who may command yea compell both members and Ministers to act Ans Another slaunder without ground or proofe or truth which I leave here upon record God our consciences and our Brethren bearing us witnesse how tender our Churches are but to perswade men to act without light much more to command or compell both which very words though the thing required were lawfull are odious in the Churches of Christ most fitly becomming the Synagogues of Antichrist Hath hee a lycense to speake any thing To Art 2. We hold our Church power absolute and imperiall Answ All we use to speake of our Church-power is that it is ministeriall which is farre from absolute and imperiall words fitter for Emperours of this world then the Churches of the Saints I charge it on his conscience as in the sight of God either to make this appeare or else vindicate us as becomes an honest Christian to doe And for his two printed Authors cited for we cannot come at his private letters if there be any one word or shew of ground from them to maintaine his speech Let me beare the shame of it for I here avouch the contrary under my hand To Art 3. and Marg. That we deny all representation of Churches absent and all authoritative deputation of Messengers to act for them â—nsw 1. The Reader may well see it is his own saying not ours for he brings no proofe but from Barrow and Johnson who cannot well give in their testimony for our Church waies in New-England because they never came there yea were in their graves both or one long before ever wee had a beeing in New-England 2. There is no truth in it for we hold a Church may delegate some men and send them forth in their names and stead with authority to act for them in this or that particular businesse of trust as Act. 15.2 And yet he hath boldly now twise or thrise affirmed the same thing of us and brings no proofe at all for it and it is answered before cap. 2. Art 3. Marg. Yet some tells us saith he that Mr. P. and Mr. W. were sent hither by the Churches to negotiate for them c. Answ 1. Some tell us Sir you are a man of judgement and gravity able to instruct others You know you may not blemish your brethren and slâ—nder Churches upon such poore and weake grounds as it is reported I am informed some tell us And yet how oft in your booke have you used this course of dealing towards your bretbren and their Churches Some tell us indeede is warrant enough for people that have no other businesse to make three farthing bookes of and thereby fill the world with tales but oh farre be
could scarse have beleeved it possible hee should have written it no penne can expresse a greater latitude of opposition agaist Magistracy and lawes and Churches too then here he affirmes to be in us if you review the six parcells mentioned you will see it To all which I say 1 there is neither truth in it nor any proofe of all for any of these six except the first But God and men our consciences writings our professions and constant practises will rebuke testifie against this misreport For now you would in reason expect some proofes would you not for this accusation ☜ You shall heare his cited Author himselfe speake Answ to 32. q p. 35 36. which saith thus Observing the things commanded of God in a peaceable way yeelding due reverence to all in Authority I praying for them This observing Gods Ordinances cannot bee unlawfull for lacke of the command of man The scope of all his Author speakes is this That Christians may observe Gods Ordinances though they have no command from the Magistrate so to do now where is doing of this against his commands His peremptory command yea against his lawes and established lawes and not the lawes of an Heathen but a Christian State and not against a State only but against the mindes of all the Churches of God amongst us These are all his owne additions that so he might loade his brethren with contempt How durst he bring in all these words as his Authors and yet he knowes they all are his owne 2. As it is against truth and without ground â—o it is contrary to himselfe and his owne words Chap. 5. Art 2. and Art 4. where he expresseth that notice must bee and is given to the Magistrates and Churches before their joyning in Church fellowship Yet here in this Art he saith we hold 〈◊〉 and ought to doe it without their consents and against their minds how can thâ—se agree And whereas he quotes R. M. to prove that before Churches joynâ— they give notice thereof to the Magistrate and other Churches yet here he bring the same R. M to prove we may and doe joyne without their consent Let this also be noted that he speakes not only of our judgement what we hold we may and ought to doe in this case but of our practise also what we doe as appeares in last words of the Margent wee looke he should make that good also i. e. that in our practise wee doe thus oppose State and Churches in our joyning in Church fellowship 5. He againe crosseth himselfe for in this Art hee saith wee hold that Christians may ought to set up new Churches against the minds of other Churches and yet he in his Marg. saith that we deny them i. e. himselfe and some others any liberty to doe thus Ans He must prove either that we hold him and the rest no Christians or that we crosse our own rules and principles or else freely acknowledge a mistake in his word Thus having done with his Booke I should now come to the Postscript which I was fully purposed to have answered also But now seeing my booke farre beyond expectation swelling I should be loath to tire out the Reader besides I have touched upon many things therin already and the rest most of them being built upon his booke must of themselves fall with it and yet if it be requisite and worth the while I shall be ready to doe it when I see cause A Postscript to W. R. NOw I intreate you in the bowels of Christ and the spirit of meekenesse to review your own worke weigh my Answer without prejudice and consider well how many pretious Saints and godly Churches deare to Christ persecuted heretofore by Prelats loving to your selfe without their least stimulation of you in this kind you have in your Narration extremely wronged whether through over-much credulity incogitancie or otherwise I dispute not Sure I am it is done and so done that it is almost incredible as one would thinke but you should now at least see your error which if God shall open your eyes in whole or in part to doe as I humbly beseech him you may it will bee your honour â—xod 21. â—3 34. and no small argument of your selfe deniall to recall There was a law in Israel that he that digged a pit was not to leave it open but cover it else what ever dammage happened he was to make it good You are able to make application Solomon Austin c. never gained so much as by their retractations There are some sinnes God will not sense up the pardon of till satisfaction be made by the party Defamation is one of them It wil be no griefe of heart but much comfort to remember when you are about to leave this world that although through praecipitancy you did blemish your Brethren yet after consideration you did againe as readily wipe away the blot by a brotherly vindication as for as truth required which if â—â—â—ter conviction you shall for beare to do upon what pretence soever how will you be able to lye downe in your grave in peace FINIS