Selected quad for the lemma: judgement_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
judgement_n	church_n	member_n	visible_a	2,107	5	9.5140	5	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A94733	An apology or plea for the Two treatises, and appendix to them concerning infant-baptisme; published Decemb. 15. 1645. Against the unjust charges, complaints, and censures of Doctor Nathanael Homes, Mr Iohn Geree, Mr Stephen Marshall, Mr John Ley, and Mr William Hussey; together with a postscript by way of reply to Mr Blakes answer to Mr Tombes his letter, and Mr Edmund Calamy, and Mr Richard Vines preface to it. Wherein the principall heads of the dispute concerning infant-baptism are handled, and the insufficiency of the writings opposed to the two treatises manifested. / By Iohn Tombes, B.D.	Tombes, John, 1603?-1676.	1646 (1646)	Wing T1801; Thomason E352_1; ESTC R201072	143,666	170

contend Yet in that sense I yeeld it to be a seale actually I yeeld it to be a seale onely to beleevers but I deny that because the Sacrament is in its nature a seale of grace God doth seale alwayes when it is rightly administred The nature of it is to be a seale aptitudinall not actuall and so it is easie to answer Bellarmines argument without crossing my speeches But be the Sacraments s●ales conditionall or absolute actuall or aptitudinall what is this to prove that God seales conditionally in this sense as if God left it to mans liberty to whom he had sealed to agnize or recognize that sealing or to free themselves if they please and so nullify all yet so as to afford them a while the favour and priviledge of being in Covenant with him which Master Marshall I conceived meant by his conditionall sealing and I find not in his answer a deniall of it to be his meaning Master Blake excepts against a speech of mine in which I say That all the Sacraments of the Jewes are abrogated circumstance and substance in whole and in part and askes me Is circumcision of heart abrogated Is all spirituall meat and drinke in Sacraments abrogated Is Christ himselfe abrogated I answer no but withall say these are idle questions as not crossing my speech unlesse he can prove circumcision of the heart spirituall meat and drinke and Christ himselfe to be Sacraments Sect. 2. Master Blake would acquit this speech Gods Covenant of grace is common to elect and reprobates from symbolizing with Arminians by producing the speeches of Pareus and Mr Ball who onely say reprobates are in Covenant with God externally or God externally contracts with them which is another thing Gods Covenant of grace is his promise of grace and of this truly Master Marshall in his defence page 117. multitudes were baptized to whom God yet never gave saving graces and therefore never promised them for had he made a promise he would have performed it Master Blake makes the nature of a Covenant an agreement betweene two parties and sayes a promise or tender without consent is no Covenant How then do children Covenant at baptisme or enter into Covenant who yeeld no consent He saith Gods tender of himselfe to his people is called his Covenant Gen. 17. 7. 9. But he doth not rightly call that a tender which was more then a tender to wit a promise Then he objects against himselfe that if Gods Covenant be such as he will not breake Jerem. 31. 32. and he hath promised to put his lawes in their inward parts then they all to whom he makes Covenant must be elect I answer saith he if we take the words exactly as in the letter of the prophecy they run then all ministery is beaten downe and all edification ceases But this is litem lite resolvere The Contraremon strantes when they urge this place for effectuall grace understand the words exactly But how will Master Blake understand them I have looked over almost two leaves in answer to this in Master Blake and cannot tell how he will understand them nor finde I that he gives any direct answer to the objection but wanders in impertinences Nor knowe I how he can answer the objection without evervating the argument for effectuall grace and perseverance in it And the not teaching one another there spoken of is meant of that obscure teaching which was under the Law Sect. 3. He intimates that I have misreported Master Marshall but Master Marshall hath not himselfe denyed the sense I conceived of his conditionall sealing by God to Infants the words are plaine enough in his Sermon pag. 49. where he talkes of Gods Covenant and sealing and Christs suretiship more like Corvinus or the Arminans then the Scripture or Contraremonstrants Master Blake accuseth me of joyning with Independents and that they will have none Church members but elect and I no Church but that which is invisible But I beleeve he wrongs both me and them me I am sure for I alwayes teach a visible profession sufficient for Chuch-membership though I deny that every visible professour is in the Covenant of grace and when they will have reall saints Church members they meane not onely such as are so before God but such as are so in the judgement of the Church Though I thinke they are more rigid then they should be in their tenet yet I thinke Master Blake wrongs them in this imputation Ch. 16. I told Mr Marshall that his speech of Anabaptists as condemning infants as out of the state of grace condemning all the infants of the whole Church of Christ as having nothing to doe with the Covenant of Grace till proved by some of their testimonies I should take to be but a false accusation Mr Blake tel●me Master Marshall for a testimony needs look no further then th●●op of your leafe where you say infant-baptisme is a corruption of the ordinance of baptisme If infants be not only held from baptisme but their baptisme is also a corruption of that ordinance and there is no such thing as Covenant-holinesse to give them any ti●le or interest then they are out of covenant strangers to the promises of God and so the doom Eph. 2. 12. lyes heavy upon them How frivolous a justification is this of an expresse and deep accusation of men of a rash and bloody sentence as condemning all the infants of the whole Church of Christ as having nothing to do with the covenant of grace me thinks a man that would accuse so expressely so many persons and those christian brethren not to be contemned of so deep so passion-provoking a charge enough to stirre up Magistrates and parents to expell and destroy such men should produce better evidence for such a crimination then such a farre fetcht consequence as Mr Blake here brings to make it good is neither my name nor peace more tenderly regarded by Master Blake then upon such light inference to accuse me so deeply I had said to Mr Marshall that if the covenant of grace bee rightly understood Mr Marshall excludes infants as much from the covenant of grace as I doe As for Mr Blake not only page 14 of his Birth-priviledge but also page 23 of his answer to my letter he expressely maintaines that the birth-right he maintaines as a fruit from the covenant of free-grace to all in the faith and their seed only entitles to outward priviledges How doth this stand with that which he asserts chap. 3. sect 2. of his answer to my letter page 13. that infants of beleevers have salvation if they dye in their infancy by vertue of the Covenant For if the Covenant onely entitle to outward priviledges how doth it entitle to salvation So that to speak plainly Mr Blake doth but play fast and loose sometimes asserting a certainty of salvation from the covenant sometimes onely a right to outward priviledges and yet he and Mr Marshall stick not to declaim

any other direction then about particular injuries between brother and brother or let him be to thee a heathen and a publican be any other then shunning familiar converse whether 1 Cor. 5. 2. the mourning that the incestuous person might be taken away from among them was any other then upon solemn fasting and prayer by the whole Church of Corinth out of a holy zeale to Gods glory by Anathema curse or imprecation to imprecate the vengeance of God upon him for the injury hee had done to God and the Christian profession that he might be taken away from them by God and whether the delivery to Satan were any other then an act of Apostolicall power or such as like them had power over unclean spirits tending to the taking away his naturall life as Molinaeus in his Vate● And I conceive the Apostle verse 9 10 11 12. of that chapter proceeds from that particular occasion to generall directions concerning the d●●lining society with them that are vitious which directions are manifestly concerning arbitrary and voluntary society in civill things such as in a sort in some case they might afford to infidels and then concludes And ye shall put away from among your selves that wicked one which as Ainsworth observeth on Deut. 17. 7. are the same words that the Greeke useth Deut. 17. 7. and in like manner Deut. 22. 21. 22. 24. noting the event of executing judgement by killing whereby the guilty person and the guilt of his transgression was removed from them And in reference to the incestuous person if notes the consequent of their mourning that he might be taken away from them v. ● not by such a processe as is either used in Episcopall Courts or Presbyteriall Consistories or Congregationall meetings though I think this last way comes nearest to it of any of the three by conventing trying hearing w●nesses and then pronouncing a judiciall sentence according to the determination of one or more by plurality of votes but by a solemn detestation of the fact mourning for it and with joint commotion and concurrence of spirit complaining of it to God and imploring his vengeance to cut him off and so to vindicate his own name and people Which I conceive the Lord did then in an extraordinary way when they had no Christian Magistrate or other power to avenge that injury to God and his people in that Ch●rch which was endued abundantly with speciall gifts 1 Cor. 1. 7. 1 Cor. 12. 1 Cor. 14. Which fact I for my part doubt how it can be made the foundation of an ordinary meer Ecclesiasticall judgement with jurisdiction as superiours that claime authority without speciall gift in the time wherein a Christian Magistrate is ready to execute judgement on such offendors any more then the fact Judg. 20. of the whole congregation of Israel in avenging the fact of the men of Gibeah when there was no King in Israel might be drawn into example for an ordi●nary practise when they had Judges m●ch lesse how hence may be concluded any such thing as power of suspension from the Lords supper for every emergent scandall so judged by a congregation or congregationall Presbytery Nor doth the Church loose by having a Christian Magistrate if that jurisdiction be wanting sith I suppose it is better provided for by the constant care of a christian Magistrate if conscientious in executing judgement if not such censures have been seldome executed with conscience or good effect And though it be that many magnifie the vertue and benefite of their juridical excommunication yet the best intelligence I have makes me question whether it hath not been rather an engine of much harme as being used rather against dissenters in opinion and opposers of profit then men openly vitious mannagers of that cen●ure generally shewing themselves irreconcileable to them that dissent from them but favourable enough to vitious living Neverthelesse I deny not but that there is a discipline proper to the Church as namely in case of erroneous doctrine and superstitious pra●tise contrary to the christian faith or worship according to the practise Acts 15. and command Tit. 3. 10. Rev. ● 24. 20. and in case of vitious life according to the scriptures 1 Tim. 5. 20. 2 Thess 3. 6. 14 15. 1 Cor. 5. 9 10 11. And if any assembly of Ministers and Rulers bee set up for the better discovery of such that a person be not charged with those evills upon uncertain reports I think it agreeable to Gods will 1 Tim. 5. 19. And if it happen that any such facts be perpetrated as are like to that of the incestuous person I doubt not but the whole Church may and ought to disclaime the person so offending and to exclude him from all brotherly communion because I conceive so much was done to the incestuous person as I gather from 2 Cor. 2. 6 7. yet herein they did not act as Judges that had power of jurisdiction over him but as Physicians out of charity seeking to cure him And I suppose in the manner of doing these things we have not certain precise direction from Gods word but that we are left free by God to order such things though pertaining to christians as christians by alterable rules of prudence And thus farre I have thought good to expresse my selfe in this matter because of Mr Marshals words tending to render me suspected as if I did monstri aliquid alere nourse some monster As for my opinion about baptizing I have publiquely declared when I examined whether to visible Church membership were necessary reall sanctity in the judgement of Church-officers that by profession sufficient to it I mean a profession of repentance and faith in Christ which is serious sober free and understanding but denied that it is necessary there should be a further probation by trying mens spirits so as to satisfie the particular congregation or Church-officers that a person be admitted to Church-membership and the Lords Supper I confesse such triall is requisite in admitting into speciall function or intimate society but not to communion in worship And my opinion is that as much is required to make capable of baptisme as of the Lords Supper and that being admitted to the one if rightly performed they are not to be debarred of the other for want of a further triall of their spirits And though I never said that by rectifying Baptisme all the abuses I mention following padobaptisme would be removed for I did not make paedobaptisme the sole or principall cause of them that is mans corruption which will fall into those or the like in some measure if paedobaptisme were removed yet it is true which I said in my Examen part 2. § 7. the onely way to further reformation is to begin in a regular way at the purging of that Ordinance of Jesus Christ to wit Baptisme Even as though all ignorance and superstition were not removed by removing Latin Service yet that was the onely regular way to

Of Mr Marshals untrue charge against me as if I rested on Grotius in setting down the tenent of Antiquity upon occasion of which the tenent of Antiquity is again examined my judgment of their doctrine vindicated Mr. Marshals new all●gations answered and my diligence to find out their tenets manifested § 17. Of my opinion about excommunication Church-government the admission unto all ordinances my former conformity alleaged to alienate mens minds from me and my writings § 18. Of the vanity of Mr Ley's vaunt concerning the deadly wound given to my cause and the contrary demonstrated by a briefe going through the principall points about this argument as they have hitherto been disputed As about Acts 2. 39. Rom. 11. 16. 1 Cor. 7. 14. Colos 2. 12. Matth. 28. 19. Acts 16 15. Matth. 19. 14. c. Baptisme and the rite of eating bread and drinking wine through old ●ites among the Iewes yet used to another end and after another rule by Christians The command confessed to be the formal reason of circumcision by Mr Marshall Circumcision a priviledge proper to the Jewish Church state No command about the Iewes Sacraments now in force Infants not Disciples as Matth. 28. 19. is meant Baptizing housholds inferres not infant-baptisme We have no evidence for judgement of charity concerning infants nor is a judgement of charity to be our rule in adminstering Baptisme § 19. Of Master Hassey his pretended satisfactory answer to my exerci●ation § 20. The Epilogue of this Apology concerning the reason of the enlargement of it the Authors present estate and future intentions § 1. The occasion of this postscript § 2. Of Mr. Calamys and M. Vines their wrong judgement of the dispute Mr. Blakes book and my discussing the point §. 4. They that deny Infant-baptisme need not teach that Infants perish § 5. Of my censure of Master Blakes producing Gal 4. 29 for the birth priviledge §. 6. Or the necessity of my taking paines in my Examen to find out the meaning of Mr. Marshals second conclusion by reason of the ambig●ity of his expressions §. 7. Of the Corinthians doubt 1 Cor. 7 12 13 14. 1 Cor 7. 14. is not meant of instrumentall sanctification and federall holinesse §. 9. Of M Blak●s m●sallegation of Gal. 2. 15. which was the text he chose for his birth-priviledge § 8. That 1 P● 2. 9. is meant of the Church invisible §. 11. Of precedents for womens receiving the Lords Supper §. 12. To say that God hath promised to be the God of every believer and his uncurall seed is a new Gospell §. 13. Or Mr Ruthersurds Mr Blakes opinion about holinesse of a chosen nation mediate An cestors profession intitling to Infant-baptisine the Independents advantage in this point §. 14. Of the word nations Mat. 28. 19. how to be taken §. 15. Of M. Rutherfurds and Mr Blakes and mine opinion concerning the rule to know who are baptizable §. 16. About two suppositions ascribed by m● to Mr Marshal and Mr Blake in my Examen page 130. §. 17. About arguments drawn from Analogy in positive rites and their invalidity and the insufficiency of M. Blakes rules §. 16. That Mr Blake hath not proved that Infants are disciples from Mat. 18. 5. nor pertinently alleaged Isai 49 22. §. 19. of baptizing housholds my censure of Mr Blakes speech concerning it §. 20. About Mat. 19 14. that by the Kingdome of heaven is meant the Kingdome of glory §. 21. That God seales not to every person that is rightly baptized that his Covenant of grace belongs onely to the elect that his Covenant is effectuall and leaves it not to mans liberty to include or exclude himself Of Mr Blakes unjust crimmination of me as putting the children of beleevers out of the covenant of grace and the epilogue of this postscript