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A69735 A new-yeares-gift, or, A brief exhortation to Mr. Thomas Edwards that he may breake off his old sins in the old yeare and begin the new yeare with new fruits of love, first to God, and then to his brethren / by Kathrine Chidley. Chidley, Katherine. 1645 (1645) Wing C3833; ESTC R21712 21,258 29

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nothing but of what ever Religion their King will be of they will be of the same therefore you are a contentious man indeede that will offend the consciences of the godly to make your Church great that so your revenewes may be large YOur fourth Reason is A tolleration of men in their errors is against the judgements of the greatest lights Ans. It is granted Therefore you might have spared your labour in citing your antient fathers For in all that you doe herein I oppose you not YOur fifth Reason is that the Magistrates tollerating of errors and new opinions is a kinde of invitation to them c. Ans. This thing I grant And therefore the Magistrates ought not to tollerate errors or any opinion that is not grounded upon the word of God And therefore I conceive it to be the Magistrates duty to make tryall of the Synod whether their gathering together bee according to the word of God or according to the customes of this Kingdome And whether they bee not of the same nature with the Synod which used to sit in the Convocation house And whether any decree which they shall now pitch upon not having the Scripture for their warrant may be consented unto And though it have the Scripture for their warrant whether there bee ever the more weight in it for their decreeing of it and it greatly concerneth the Parliament to consider whether the Assembly have any thing to do with the things of God while they stand Priests by their OLD-POPISH-CALLING And that upon your ground namely that the Magistrates ought not to tollerate errors or new opinions And all waies and practises are new and strange which have not warrant in the word of God IN your sixt Reason you pleade against a tolleration of different formes of Church governement for feare of division among Ministers and families you say it will not stand with Christian policie but it will stand with Matchevillian Mr. Edwards If Christian policie might take place in the Kingdome of England and all your Matchivillian pollicie banished out there would be no striving then about different formes of Religion but Christs true Religion and Gospel would then have a free passage without interposing for the free tollerating of it will produce no mischiefes nor evills at all And it is not wee that pleade for different formes of Church governement but your owne party We pleade but for one intire governement established upon sound principles unalterable And not a government which may looke with severall faces in severall times upon severall occasions according to mens fancies And therefore it had beene better for you to have held your tongue then made so many repetitions of things which have beene sufficiently answered long agoe YOur seventh Reason is that Independency or the Church way as being a scisme in forsaking the Reformed Churches and constituting new the way of constituting Churches by the people the way of making their Ministers the refusing of beleevers and their children to the Sacraments unlesse they bee Church members with many more are all flat against the primative patterne c. In these words you have so jumbled things together as it were in a broken language If you meane that the way of Separation from your false Churches their way of making ministers constituting Churches is contrary to the primative patterne you speake untruly for they make the primative patterne their rule And then for their refusing of beleevers and their children from the Sacraments unlesse they be members of their Church in this you accuse them unjustly also for they doe admit beleevers and their Infants to the ordinance of Baptisme though they bee not members of a particular congregation for they are not capeable to be members before Baptisme in respect of order and to partake of the Supper till they be in particular Church fellowship And this I will engage my selfe to maintaine against you if it please you to dispute the case And therefore you had no neede to have branded this practise with such a blacke badge to call it the fountaine of evill and root of bitternesse and manifold errors and other mischiefes For this is but your bitter language against the truth And if you intend to make your rejoynders and large tractates which you brag of of such stuffe as you have made this Antipologia It were better for you to put on a buffe coate to go fight in the Army against your enemies then to sit at home to slander and accuse your friends even those who ne●er did nor thought harme to you or any other YOur eighth Reason is a commendation of the Presbyteriall way and that by the testimony of many fathers and the testimony of the Scottish Commishioners But you say there will be objected a passage against it in a booke lately printed of M. Simpsons Answ. I leave Mr. Simpson and you to try it ou● But if you had so defined your Presbyterian governement and set downe your bounds and limitts what and what not according as you call upon the Apologists to define their Church way then you should have had my judgement of it here to the full But to judge and determin so of a thing which is not yet begotten or brought forth in this Kingdome is not so easie a matter neither do we know what forme or shape it will have when it is brought forth It may for ought I know be a MONSTER like the Image of the seven beaded beast and if it bee found defective then all who have taken the Nationall Covenant are by your own confession to endeavour the exterpation of it Yea And further you say as the Parliament will not be respecters of persons or partiall they must grant no tolleration but what is agreeable to sound doctrine In this you speake very true although indeed you crosse many of your former speeches And therefore the way to deside the controversie is to sease writing of such large tractates wherein you doe but as it were picke strawes and make abundance of repititions to tryfle away the time In my judgement I say It were better for your selfe and Mr. Samuel Rutherford and Mr. A.S. or any of you or whomsoever the Parliament shall apoint to produce Scripture and good reason for your way if you can and let as many of the Ministers of the Congregations of the Separation have freedome to produce Scripture and sound reason for their way in a free conference And let the houses of Parliament who are able to judge of the great and weighty businesses of the Kingdome let them I say have the hearing and tryall of the conference and as things are cleared so let them allow or disallow And this is according to your counsell in pag. 304. of your Antipologia where you say To conclude If the way of Independencie be of God and the Apollogists can make that good let it be established by Parliament and let all