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A63893 Choice experiences of the kind dealings of God before, in, and after conversion laid down in six general heads : together with some brief observations upon the same : whereunto is added a description of true experience / by J. Turner. Turner, J. (Jane) 1653 (1653) Wing T3294; ESTC R27571 50,831 242

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as 1 Thes 5. 17. c. but yet notwithstanding I was dissatisfyed about it that notion of waiting carrying such a shew of spirituality I could not easily let it go but yet this tryall had so shaken it that I did begin much to question it and also those other notions of the like nature then it pleased the Lord to bring us safe to Land through which mercy I had some little communion with God being able to speak of his goodness in delivering us from that danger but through that dissatisfaction which still remained in me about these notions it was interrupted again and my beloved had withdrawn himself and I was very much troubled not knowing where to rest nor what to do but notwithstanding I did begin much to question those things from that trial I had of them on the Sea yet I was more inclined to them than to truth for some time especially to that of prayer and three or four times after I remember in discourse with some friends I did a little plead for them which though it was my sin so to do I did not then know it but must needs say I did as simply and sincerely aim at doing the wil of God in all those things as ever I did in any thing and therefore though Satan had so beguiled me yet I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly but my trouble and want of communion with God did still increase insomuch that I was scarce able to bear my burthen and speaking of it to my Husband who was at that time much in the same condition I remember amongst many words he spake some were to this purpose That seeing we were in such a condition and at such a loss it was best to speak but little that as we did but little good we might do but little harm which I did well approve of and after that I spake little for or against any thing till I was better satisfyed then being so truly in a day of adversity according to that counsel of the Wise man in Eccles 7. 14. I sate down seriously to consider what might be the cause of my being in so sad and strange a condition Through which consideration by degrees I came to see and conclude that certainly there was something amiss in my Judgement as to those notions beginning clearly to discern they did so oppose and contradict my former received principles that they could not stand together but if one was true the other was false and that I must leave the one or the other for though I had received the new I could never fully quit the old neither in Judgement nor practice Then I was restless in my desire for three or four daies to know which of the two were truth oft times earnestly begging of God that he would decide the controversie and discover to me which was according to his mind and which not being fully satisfied that but one of them could be truth then it pleased the Lord to put me upon a particular examination what grounds I had in Scripture and what experience I had of both in reading and examining my Scripture-grounds I began to discern a great inclination in my heart to the former principles finding I thought the Scripture very full and plain for them but nothing for the other but what was from some dark mysterious interpretations which were very doubtfull and for my own experience I did remember and was constrained to acknowledge that in receiving and keeping close to the fotmer I had joy and peace and much satisfaction and communion with God but since I received the other the Lord had as it were hid his face from me and I was filled with confusion and distraction and the remembrance of that tryall I had of them upon the Sea did very much help me now to see the falsity of them that in a time of tryal I durst not stick to them as indeed I plainly saw that I could never stick to them so as to answer them fully in my practice unless I should have laid aside the appearance of godliness have been very profane the consideration of which with some other evill consequences which I saw cleerly did naturally attend those things was another means by which the Lord was pleased to recover me from them and to discover Satan under his veil to me how by these things he did intend if the Lord had not prevented him to have stript me of all my hopes and in particular as to that of being saved by a Christ within and not by a Christ without the Lord was pleased to shew me that it was quite another thing differing from the Gospel and that it was attended with this evil consequence even to overthrow the whole Gospel and to deny the Lord that bought them at the thoughts of which my soul did tremble and that if he should have prevailed here all my hopes were gone for I could not nor durst not rest on any thing in my self as a ground of hope for life and salvation but on the other hand concerning my hope in the Lord Jesus Christ according to the Gospel I could truly say of that as Peter did John 6. 68. Lord whither shall we go thou hast the words of eternal life so whither should I go from the Gospel there are the words of eternal life there is all my rest and hopes in the Lord Jesus through the Gospel and therefore I resolved in the strength of Christ to stick to this and leave the other Then secondly as to that of waiting for a power to pray and that there was no command but from within concerning both these the Lord was pleased to shew me that it was not according to his mind but a meer invention of Satan by degrees to draw me from my duties and that it was attended with this evil consequence even to slight the Scriptures and commands of God and to expose the Soul to Satans deceivings to walk by the imaginations of their own hearts instead of the motions of the spirit and also it brings the soul into great uncertainties which the truth never doth but on the other hand to do dueties in obedience to the authority and commands of God in Scripture and to pray at all times as we have opportunities having received a principle of grace by which we are made capable of prayer I saw this was a cleer and sound truth not being attēded with any evill consequence nor bringing the soul into straits and uncertainties but rather gives enlargements in every condition and therefore I desired likewise to keep close to these and leave the other but oh the joy and comfort that was in my Soul at this return I cannot express it but this I say it was to me as life from the dead And as I was blessing praising and magnifiing the Lord for his unchangeable goodness to me my Husband having been some time from me came home to whom I did declare my
often moving into several places where we found not only particular persons but whole Churches very much corrupted owning practising strange things though under plausible terms and spiritual pretences by which a while after they were broken and scattered leaving the profession of truth in the practice of the Ordinances of Christ some under one notion and some under another so that it was hard to find in those parts one particular person that had sound principles much less a whole Church where there was a powerful Ministery and a wise government by reason of which I began by degrees to be somewhat confused in Judgement and truly when I consider those things and what temptations I was exposed to at that time I do not wonder I was so confused but I rather wonder at the mercy of God that I was not swallowed up with confusion as many were in those daies for though I was weak in principles and by those things somewhat confused yet I do not know that in two or three years time I had received any corrupt principles but afterward being with a people where Satan had transformed himself into an Angell of light I think I may say in the highest degree under terms of Mystery Spirit waiting upon God and such like by them I was beguiled and deceived in some particular things though never in the height of that which was practised by them the particulars about which I was deceived were chiefly these three or four First Concerning godliness being a mystery that it did consist of something within and not of something without and and that the Saints were to expect life and Salvation from a Christ within and not from a Christ without Secondly that Saints were not to do duties by or from a command without but from a command within and that the word Command in Scripture was not a command to them till they had a word within them Thirdly that as to the time of doing duties they were to wait for the movings of the Spirit to carry them forth to it and this they called waiting for a power and till they had such a power they were to do nothing but sit still and wait and this not only in private duties but in the Church also not owning any Ministery by way of gifts or office but to come together and there fit and wait till they had a power and then to speak whether men or women In these particulars which carriried such a face or shew of spirituality I was corrupted but did never fully own them in Judgement nor practice and for such principles as I thought did lead to loosness either in matter of conve●sion or in slighting the Churches or ordinances of Christ I did alwaies oppose them though I believe such principles do naturally follow the others but I did not then discern it they being covered over with such Angel-like appearances And as to that principle of waiting though I did own it in Judgement more fully than any of these other yet I could neve● come up to it in my practice in private duties but by reason of some convictions still remaining in me I could not stay so long from duty till I had such a power but did frequently go to duty when I had it not though sometimes I thought I had it But in the presence of others I did not appear in duty but when I thought I had that power though I never did so appear but in one place for a short season in doing which I thought I had communion with God but I do believe it was no such thing but a meer Spirit of delusion First because I know no Scripture-ground for such a practice and secondly from the consideration of the sad fruit I had by it for after a little time I began to lose my peace and was very much troubled having little or no communion with God nor scarce any thing to speak to or for God and so confounded I was in my own spirit that I knew not what to do and speaking of it to some and those not a few they labored to perswade me it was a dispensation of God and that the Saints after they were brought out of Egypt must be in the wilderness before they come to Canaan and that the end of God in bringing them there was that he might speak comfortably to them and therefore I was not to be troubled but to be quiet fit still and wait and not to stir the Lord till he pleased this did not at all satisfy me but I continued in a very sad condition and one thing more by the way I cannot forget and that is that while I was in this condition I never was so troubled with temptations as I was at that time One temptation which I was troubled with many years before I was kept from until at this time which now was more violent than at first as indeed those things naturally lead to such temptations which temptation is the same expressed in the beginning of the book page 25. This was the sad fruit of my straying from the pure waies of truth which as I desire ever to own with shame to my self so likewise considering the temptations I was exposed to and the little means I had to forewarn and keep me from such things I desire for ever to bless the Lord that I strayed no further that though in these things I had much forgotten him yet he was pleased to remember me and shewed me the evil and danger of these notions and restored me to those former joies that once I had in him and made that which was intended by Satan to overthrow me to be of great advantage to me which he was pleased to do after this manner Having some occasion to undertake a passage on the Sea from London to Newcastle in which condition it pleased the Lord to reprove me by the raging waves of the Sea and tempestuous storms then began my trouble to increase but not so much from that which was without as from something within the waves of the Sea not beating so fast on the Ship as the waves of temptations did arise in my heart being in a very much-troubled dissatisfyed condition not finding my heart willing to submit to God neither indeed knowing how to behave my self towards him in relation to the present trouble all which was occasioned by those corrupt principles being at a great loss whether I should now pray or wait for a power not being sensible of any other power at that time but what was from the present trouble to put me upon it but in this trial I was glad to betake my self to my former principles the Lord bringing to my remembrance that command and promise Psa 50. 15. by which I was encouraged to cry to God as indeed I could not nor durst not forbear for still owning my interest in God by which I was made capable of prayer I could not answer that with such other like Scriptures
concerning truth and why many that live a long time under much means yet continue very ignorant it may be ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth 2 Ti. 3. 7. and as the seed upon the stony ground withred away because it had no root So truth not being rooted in the heart and iudgement though it spring up in much affection yet it comes to nothing And indeed ignorant persons many times are sooner affected and doe seem to have more affection than others he reason of that I conceive is the same also with that of the seed upon the stony ground it sprang up suddenly because it had not depth of earth so it s natural for ignorant persons to spring forth in affection they having as it were nothing else to do but onely to be affected their strength running all in one vein or in one Chanel they spend all in affection while others that have more understanding have many other things to do all the faculties of their souls being exercised their strength is dispersed into many veins weighing and pondering things in the heart and iudgment that it may have depth to root and settle there as it s said of Mary shee pondred those things in her heart Luke 2. 19. so they are treasuring it up in their hearts having in their treasury things new and old Mat. 12. 35. and 13. 52. and a little affection where there is iudgement is better than a great deal without iudgement yet much affection with a sound iudgment is best of all The second note of Experience How I was brought to see my self in a miserable state by Nature and convinced of sin by the Law and so converted to duty labouring for life by doing though at that time in my own thoughts far from owning such a thing By providence hearing a Minister of the Nation who was then called a Puritan whom though I used often to hear yet I could truly say as the Prophet in Dan. 10. 8. I heard but I understood not and as I was once hearing of him very suddenly I thought I did discern and understand things more clearly and more distinctly than ever I did before that time being much affected with it and did then own God in it having many such thoughts as these that as it was said of Lydia Act. 16. 14. that now the Lord had opened my understanding and now I hoped I should have more knowledge and delight more in hearing and reading whereas before it was wearysome to me because I did not understand any thing but in a confused manner After this I had a great delight to hear this man and though I thought it much on any other occasion to go one mile on foot yet to hear him I could go three and back again the same day frequently and by his Ministery I was brought to see the superstitious varity of my former zeal and laid it aside and I remember that at this time I had such affectionate heart-workings towards God and godliness and such a hatred of all sin according to what I then knew that I did many times in my serious thoughts chuse rather to dy than live meerly upon that account because I would not sin against God knowing my self subject thereunto And though I cannot say that at this time I had faith in God so as to believe his Love to me on Gospel grounds for I was totally ignorant of any such thing many years after yet I had good thoughts of God from that glimmering light which I then had and which did produce in me much love to him as I cannot but so judge But no sooner was I brought to this but Satan was ready to assault me and set upon me with this horrid temptation to question the Being of God and I remēber it usually came upō me when I was alone but especially as I was going by my self to hear the aforesaid Minister insomuch that it did exceedingly trouble me and I then discerned it to be a temptation and did resist and labour against it drawing arguments as I went in the fields from the very works of Creation to confirm my self in this truth that there is a God that it should not be in vain for me or any to serve him and earnestly crying to God against it through Grace I was not overcome by it but had a supply of strength until it was removed and I was no more troubled with it in many years after So I continued a constant hearer of this man and other such like for some years by which I came to see my self in a miserable State by nature and was convinced of sin by the Law but being very ignorant of the Lord Jesus and their doctrine being for the most part such as was suitable to the old covenant instead of going to Christ for life I was brought to a great degree of labour and travell for life and happinesse by doing though at that time in my own thoughts farre from owning such a thing being as exact and strict in all my waies I think I may say as it was possible for a poor creature to be but the more strict I was still looking through the glasse of the law the more my bondage was increased For I could see nothing but an addition of sin in all that I did the law still calling for a perfect righteousness Then I began to be very much troubled and in a great amasement perplexity of spirit fearing I should perish for ever then I had thoughts to discover my condition to some to have advise from them but meeting with many discouragements did not but kept it in my own brest discovering no more but what I could not hide which was onely my outward appearance much differing from what formerly it was which did occasion some to say that I was neer a distraction they not knowing what condition I was in And truly my condition was so sad that I was afraid of a distraction my self for I thought it impossible to continue long in that condition and not be distracted which fear did occasion me to apply my self to some means of comfort whereas before I was not willing to hearken to any thing that way the means I used was chiefly reading praier by which it pleased the Lord I came to some dark apprehensions concerning Jesus Christ being perswaded there was something of that nature which if I could get a right understanding of my condition would be much better but fearing left I should sink under my burthen temptations comming on me like the waves of the Sea I was forced as I went about my occasions often to cry to God like the Disciples in another case Lord save me else I perish Mat. 8. 25. I thought many times I was even sinking under my burthen and I did believe there was no help but only in the Lord and that he was able to do it but whether he would do it or whether he
for my own particular I must needs say though I am still but weak yet through mercy my gain by those things is so great that I would not be without it though I desire not to purchase any more at that rate Thirdly In relation to others that through their experience they might be the more able to forewarn others who may meet with the like temptations for certainly had the Saints in those daies had that experience of Satans workings in that nature which now they have and had the Mouth of truth been so open against it as it is at this day it would doubtless have prevented much and therefore by the way I must needs say I am perswaded it will be a great aggravation of sin for any to be taken or held by those things when there is so much means to avoid them as through the mercy of God there is in these daies almost in every place Now the Lord having these and other such like ends in permitting those things I desire that my self with others who have experienced them in any measure may be carefull to answer those ends for doubtless if our deliverance be of God and that we are cleerly brought off from those confusions we shall answer all those ends of God in some measure In the next place as to the way and means by which the Lord hath been pleased to recover his people from these things I shall say little because I believe it hath been various some by one means some by another as they were in various Conditions for my own particular I have declared at large how it was with me only these General heads I shall again remind First I was brought into great straits and much confusion in Judgement Secondly the Lord was pleased to withdraw his presence from me Thirdly Being sensible of that confusion and want of communion with God I was put upon enquiry into my own heart what might be the reasons of it Fourthly It pleased the Lord to make me willing to be informed and to examine things by the Scriptures Fifthly he was pleased to draw forth my heart with much earnestness to seek to him by prayer which through great mercy was largely answered And thus I doubt not but by what I have written it will appear that I have not without good grounds both from Scripture and experience Judged those things to be the greated mystery of iniquity and the most dangerous and worst of all errors And here I cannot but mind something further as to the continuation of those things which is as they are the worst of all others so their time is short for according to my most serious observation wherever they come and where they continue longest their rise reign and ruin is all accomplished in a few years for in a short time generally persons have been so confounded that they have either come to see themselves deluded and so have turned from them or else they have run to absolute Atheism and so ended there I shall now only answer one objection as to my own experience and so end this discourse Some have said that I cannot judge of these things by experience because according to what I have declared I never had but little experience of them but only in three or four things and those I could never fully come up to neither in Judgement nor practise neither could I leave these outward things which all must leave before they can see the glory of the inward And those that have not put themselves on such things but were led to them by the Father have and do see that glory This Objection hath specious words but weighed in the ballance of the Sanctuary will be found lighter than vanity with the rest of the like nature which I hope is already made manifest only I shall add a few words by way of Answer First for my Experience as to my self in particular I confess through the mercy of God it was far short of that which many precious ones in those daies fell into yet I can truly say it was so much as did cleerly discover to me the nature and tendency of them all to be so vile that I I do not know any thing that ever I did since I knew God that I can own with more shame to my self than those things Secondly for my experience as to others I have seen and known that sufficiently to satisfy me that there is no such glory in them but a meer delusion but I desire to judge by experience no otherwise than as it hath relation to the holy Scriptures for though I do very highly esteem of Christian experience as to the operations and effects of truth in the soul as indeed it is the very life of Christianity yet as to rule I value one word of Scripture more than all experience and I am sure the Scriptures will not own them which are the rule and touch-stone by which I desire to try and judge all things For that which the Scripture sets up they throw down and that which the Scripture forbids they set up for instance the Scripture exalts the Lord Jesus Christ in all his Actions Offices and Ordinances they set up somthing else in opposition to this calling it fleshly carnal and outward things and for the fathers leading persons to them which words carry indeed a seeming shew of excellency but it s a meer delusion There is no such thing for the Father and Christ are one and what was appointed by Christ was appointed by the Father John 10. 3. 14. 24. and he doth not lead from his own appointments but those that continue in them he will love and he will send his Spirit to them which shall abide with them for ever Joh. 14. 16. and the Father and Christ will come to them and make their abode with them verse 23. I having already written that which may more fully answer this objection shall say no more but desire that all the Lords people may be delivered and kept from such deceivings The sixt Note of Experience in relation to Qualifications the habits of Grace or fruits of the Spirit how and by what means I have and do daily find an increase or decrease in those things TO make way for me to lay down my thoughts as to gracious qualifications I shall first consider the severall kinds of qualifications which I conceive may be three 1. Moral 2. Legal 3. Gospel By Moral I mean such as are from Moral dictates meerly from nature Civility breeding or education By Legal I mean such as are from legal dictates meerly from fear of wrath without any cleer apprehensions of the free grace of God in the Gospel But here I desire to be very tender judging that it is possible there may be some seeds of the Gospell sowen in such hearts by which those qualifications may be wrought though as yet it may not appear neither to themselves nor others that they have received
For doubtless though its one of the last yet it s not the least trial that after we have in a great measure overcome the world the devil and our own hearts we should meet with lets and discouragements from one another It s that indeed which is suitable to an imperfect state in which we are and by which we may learn as to live more singly on God so also to presse after and long for that perfect State in which we shall be at the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ I might enlarge much in this matter but I intend only to hint at things desiring the Lord to stir up the hearts of some more able to enlarge upon it knowing there is great need that Saints should be exhorted to this duty namely not to discourage but to incourage one another in all good things I desire that we may set before us that exhortation of the Apostle Gal. 5. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory provoking one another envying one another From whence I observe that to be desirous of vain glory makes way for a spirit of envy and so to provoke and grieve one another The consideration of that Scripture with Jam. 4. 5. may through the blessing of God be very usefull to Saints for this purpose for questionles a slighting of the gifts and grace of God in others doth many times arise off a desire of vain glory and a spirit of envy The first Note of Experience of the good Providence of God towards mee in a state of Ignorance and Darkness before Conversion IT pleased the Lord I was civilly brought up from a child and kept from such gross evills as persons meerly civil do not allow but otherwaies very vain and that which instrumentally kept me from such things as I conceived was together with my civil education a desire of happiness and a fear of misery having a general notion that sinne was attended with misery for I remember when I had done any thing that I thought was sin I was presently under great fear and terror to take off which and also to attain happiness in the end I thought I was to be exercised in some kind of religion but being very ignorant I made no inquiry what religion was but took it for granted that that was religion which was then in force from King and Bishops and so going on I grew very superstitiously zealous in all things suitable to the service Book or a Cathedrall kind of Worship and I thought the more I abounded in fasting book prayer and observation of daies and times mourning and afflicting my self for sin the better it was so that I think I did exceed most that I knew in that way for blind zeal and superstitious devotion yet at this very time I thought my self far from Popery and did alwaies oppose that with much zeal and I am sure with much ignorance Then being acquainted with some who were then called Puritans I began to perceive that there was some difference betwixt that which I practised and that which was done by them and my observation of their carriages and hearing them speak such language as I was altogether a stranger to did so far work upon me that I began to question my own condition and oft times when I had done my long book prayers though I had scarce ever heard of praying without a book yet I would in a poor broken manner complain to God that I was in some fear that what I did was not according to his will and if it were not I did beg of him that he would bring me to the knowledge of the truth whatever I did undergo for attaining of it But then sometimes I thought my condition good enough and though I was never given to rail or speak evil of such persons yet I thought they made more ado than they need to have done and that God did not require so much strictnesse as they seemed to plead for But hearing them speak much of knowledge and of the danger of ignorance and knowing my self to be very ignorant I began to be more frequent in reading the Scriptures and hearing sermons but my understanding not being yet opened it was to little effect for I remember I was at this time like a stock or stone as to the true understanding of that which I read or heard that I can truly say as the Prophet in Psal 73. 22. So foolish was I and ignorant even as a Beast before thee and yet at this time I was something in affection as when I heard any thing of the judgements of God against sin I should tremble and when any thing of the mercy and goodness of God or the love and sweetness of Jesus Christ my heart would melt as I thought yet I understood nothing so as to have it seated in the understanding and judgement This in general I do remember as to that state Some brief Observations from this note of Experience FIrst concerning my being kept from sin by a desire of happiness and fear of misery From thence I observe That in the daies of ignorance before we have received grace to restrain us from sin it s a mercy to be restrained by something else And truly to me its a mercy so considerable that I desire to bless the Lord for it as long as I live Secondly concerning my seeking after and framing to my self some kind of Religion from thence I observe That its naturall for persons to make after some kind of Religion and rather than they will worship nothing they will worship Samaritan like they know not what John 4. 22. Thirdly concerning my opposing Popery when my self lived in the practice of the same thing for the nature of it from thence I observe That a person may oppose an error and yet live at that time in the same error for the nature of it though in a lower degree and not know it And that not only persons totally ignorant but Saints also if they take not good heed for I have experienced this more times than once Fourthly concerning my complaint and prayer to God in relation to truth from thence I observe That a person before conversion may for ought I know truly pray and that from a secret work of God upon the heart And therefore though I cannot from Scripture-rule exhort such to pray so neither from ence can I forbid them but rather reioyce to see the hearts of any run out in such a way Fiftly concerning my being so much affected with truth though I understood it not from thence I observe That ignorant persons in hearing truth may have their reason so far touched that they may assent to it and be much affected with it and yet understand nothing so as to have it seated in the heart and judgement and because it is not seated in the heart and iudgement that I conceive is the reason why ignorant persons are so uncertain and so unconstant in their thoughts