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judgement_n according_a church_n word_n 2,212 5 4.2793 3 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A33979 A supplement to a little book entituled, A reasonable account why some pious nonconforming ministers cannot judg it lawful for them to perform their ministerial acts in publick solemn prayer, ordinarily, by the prescribed forms of others : wherein is examined whatsoever Mr. Falconer in his book called, Libertas ecclesiastica, and Mr. Pelling in a book called, The good old way, have said to prove the ancient use of forms of prayers by ministers : and it is proved, that neither of the two aforementioned authors have said anything that proveth the general use, or imposition of such forms of prayer in any considerable part of the church, till Pope Gregories time, which was six hundred years after Christ, nor in any church since the reformation, except that of England, and (which is uncertain) some in Saxony. Collinges, John, 1623-1690.; Falkner, William, d. 1682. Libertas ecclesiastica.; Pelling, Edward, d. 1718. Good old way. 1680 (1680) Wing C5343; ESTC R18940 53,644 120

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and_o ignorant_a as_o to_o the_o generality_n of_o their_o minister_n they_o make_v it_o their_o business_n to_o put_v out_o and_o put_v in_o to_o the_o write_n of_o the_o ancient_n what_o they_o please_v to_o forge_v write_n to_o be_v they_o which_o be_v not_o so_o and_o suppress_v other_o that_o be_v so_o which_o be_v evident_a from_o the_o write_n of_o papist_n as_o well_o as_o protestant_n sixtus_n senensis_n possevine_n bellarmine_n be_v all_o papist_n so_o be_v erasmus_n rivet_n and_o cocus_n be_v protestant_n they_o have_v all_o book_n extant_a to_o teach_v we_o to_o distinguish_v betwixt_o the_o true_a write_n of_o the_o ancient_n and_o those_o pretend_v to_o be_v they_o but_o not_o so_o and_o there_o be_v no_o doubt_n but_o it_o be_v through_o mere_a carelessness_n if_o they_o leave_v a_o word_n or_o line_n in_o the_o ancient_n against_o any_o point_n of_o doctrine_n any_o way_n of_o worship_n any_o rite_n or_o ceremony_n in_o credit_n at_o rome_n or_o use_v in_o their_o 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〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d we_o translate_v it_o say_v the_o same_o word_n so_o say_v mark_n 14._o 39_o luke_n mention_v but_o one_o prayer_n now_o sir_n how_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d can_v be_v translate_v the_o same_o word_n judge_v you_o it_o must_v be_v the_o same_o word_n if_o any_o thing_n ●nd_v we_o know_v though_o our_o saviour_n prayer_n be_v very_o short_a yet_o there_o be_v more_o than_o one_o or_o two_o word_n in_o it_o but_o sir_n this_o topick_n speak_v either_o a_o very_a great_a ignorance_n or_o a_o wilful_a design_n to_o lead_v other_o to_o mistake_v in_o those_o that_o use_v it_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d do_v not_o signify_v always_o a_o syllabical_a word_n but_o the_o thing_n
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minister_n there_o to_o use_v if_o our_o brother_n will_v resolve_v to_o abide_v with_o the_o red_a dragon_n that_o have_v seven_o head_n and_o ten_o horn_n and_o seven_o crown_n after_o he_o have_v with_o his_o tail_n draw_v down_o the_o three_o part_n of_o the_o star_n of_o heaven_n we_o mean_v no_o more_o than_o keep_v his_o eye_n only_o upon_o the_o stately_a company_n at_o rome_n that_o after_o the_o year_n 600_o call_v themselves_o false_o the_o true_a church_n the_o only_a catholic_n church_n we_o can_v help_v it_o we_o believe_v that_o all_o along_o god_n have_v his_o number_n of_o hide_a one_o within_o the_o challenge_v jurisdiction_n of_o that_o church_n but_o for_o the_o visible_a govern_v part_n of_o they_o we_o leave_v they_o soon_o after_o gregory_n time_n believe_v they_o far_o more_o like_o a_o synagogue_n of_o satan_n than_o a_o
church_n of_o god_n who_o practice_n shall_v be_v any_o thing_n of_o a_o law_n or_o precedent_n to_o we_o thus_o far_o we_o have_v deliver_v ourselves_o from_o the_o vulgar_a and_o indeed_o no_o other_o than_o a_o poor_a popular_a prejudice_n of_o a_o dissent_n from_o the_o concurrent_a judgement_n of_o the_o church_n in_o all_o age_n we_o consent_v with_o the_o five_o first_o age_n and_o for_o the_o ten_o latter_a we_o also_o agree_v with_o the_o pure_a church_n of_o god_n in_o bohemia_n and_o the_o valley_n of_o piedmont_n for_o aught_o we_o can_v ever_o hear_v prove_v relate_v to_o their_o practice_n for_o other_o church_n no_o reform_a church_n this_o day_n in_o the_o world_n but_o think_v twenty_o thing_n unlawful_a which_o both_o the_o greek_a and_o latin_a church_n in_o those_o age_n practise_v §_o 17._o we_o have_v but_o one_o prejudice_n more_o to_o deliver_v ourselves_o from_o and_o that_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n since_o the_o reformation_n to_o try_v which_o let_v we_o but_o again_o repeat_v what_o we_o say_v we_o say_v form_n of_o prayer_n be_v in_o themselves_o good_a and_o lawful_a good_a as_o mean_n of_o instruction_n and_o lawful_a to_o be_v so_o use_v yea_o and_o also_o for_o devotion_n until_o man_n have_v obtain_v a_o ability_n without_o they_o fit_o to_o express_v their_o mind_n to_o god_n in_o prayer_n or_o when_o though_o they_o have_v that_o gift_n yet_o through_o the_o hand_n of_o god_n in_o some_o natural_a inability_n they_o be_v hinder_v from_o the_o use_n of_o it_o we_o say_v also_o that_o where_o in_o a_o nation_n or_o church_n there_o be_v a_o multitude_n of_o minister_n needful_a so_o that_o it_o can_v be_v expect_v that_o a_o sufficient_a number_n shall_v be_v find_v so_o competent_o qualify_v as_o they_o shall_v be_v it_o be_v reasonable_a there_o shall_v be_v form_n make_v which_o minister_n may_v use_v or_o not_o use_v according_a as_o they_o find_v their_o ability_n but_o we_o say_v it_o appear_v to_o 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he_o speak_v of_o in_o bohemia_n and_o the_o agenda_fw-la in_o the_o palatinate_n he_o will_v find_v to_o be_v no_o more_o than_o a_o general_a directory_n and_o order_n no_o prescription_n of_o word_n and_o phrase_n let_v any_o one_o read_v scultetus_n his_o annal_n rerun_v evangelicarum_n he_o will_v find_v the_o agenda_fw-la of_o the_o church_n of_o nordlingen_n walshat_n strasburgh_n zurich_n let_v he_o see_v if_o he_o can_v find_v any_o thing_n of_o a_o form_n of_o prayer_n except_v the_o lord_n prayer_n nor_o that_o impose_v but_o ordinary_o use_v it_o be_v true_a luther_n and_o his_o party_n be_v a_o little_a laxer_n and_o luther_n make_v a_o mass-book_n correct_v much_o in_o the_o popish_a missal_n but_o leave_v in_o too_o much_o to_o the_o great_a offence_n of_o his_o brethren_n as_o may_v be_v learn_v from_o another_o place_n of_o scultetus_n i_o know_v not_o but_o they_o may_v impose_v for_o luther_n though_o a_o great_a man_n yet_o be_v too_o much_o of_o a_o dictator_n and_o for_o every_o one_o to_o conform_v to_o his_o humour_n but_o yet_o i_o nowhere_o have_v read_v that_o he_o do_v command_v his_o missal_n to_o be_v read_v by_o all_o minister_n that_o adhere_v to_o he_o and_o for_o what_o he_o do_v as_o to_o his_o composition_n of_o a_o missal_n it_o be_v rather_o judge_v to_o cross_v carolostadius_fw-la and_o other_o and_o uphold_v his_o notion_n of_o the_o corporal_a presence_n of_o christ_n than_o for_o any_o other_o reason_n next_o to_o this_o be_v the_o reformation_n of_o geneva_n and_o england_n for_o geneva_n what_o mr._n calvin_n judgement_n be_v i_o can_v tell_v i_o have_v not_o his_o epistle_n by_o i_o to_o examine_v mr._n f_n quotation_n but_o however_o he_o be_v but_o one_o man_n though_o a_o great_a one_o it_o shall_v seem_v by_o the_o settlement_n there_o if_o it_o be_v his_o judgement_n when_o he_o write_v to_o the_o protector_n it_o be_v like_o it_o be_v alter_v or_o his_o colleague_n be_v of_o another_o mind_n or_o he_o only_o approve_v it_o for_o a_o time_n in_o regard_n of_o the_o state_n of_o the_o church_n be_v new_o creep_v out_o of_o popery_n for_o in_o the_o french_a liturgy_n there_o be_v no_o tie_v up_o minister_n to_o the_o use_n of_o their_o form_n though_o indeed_o they_o propose_v and_o commend_v some_o form_n it_o say_v the_o minister_n shall_v make_v such_o prayer_n as_o seem_v good_a to_o he_o fit_v for_o the_o time_n and_o matter_n he_o be_v in_o his_o sermon_n to_o treat_v of_o in_o another_o place_n the_o form_n be_v according_a to_o the_o discretion_n of_o the_o minister_n in_o a_o three_o place_n they_o use_v this_o or_o some_o like_o it_o in_o a_o four_o place_n he_o pray_v after_o this_o manner_n what_o their_o practice_n be_v i_o can_v tell_v the_o work_n of_o our_o reformation_n be_v slow_a so_o as_o scotland_n get_v the_o start_n of_o we_o though_o we_o set_v out_o first_o dioclavius_fw-la tell_v we_o alt._n damasc_n p._n 613._o we_o have_v indeed_o in_o our_o church_n agenda_fw-la and_o a_o order_n to_o be_v observe_v in_o our_o public_a devotion_n but_o none_o be_v tie_v either_o to_o the_o prayer_n or_o exhortation_n in_o our_o liturgy_n they_o be_v propose_v for_o example_n etc._n etc._n in_o all_o the_o 13_o year_n say_v he_o that_o i_o exercise_v the_o ministry_n in_o that_o church_n i_o never_o neither_o at_o sacrament_n nor_o in_o other_o part_n of_o my_o religious_a seriuce_n use_v either_o the_o prayer_n or_o exhortation_n in_o our_o book_n nor_o do_v many_o more_o every_o one_o be_v at_o liberty_n and_o it_o seem_v childlike_a to_o i_o to_o do_v otherwise_o in_o england_n we_o use_v another_o method_n more_o conformable_a to_o the_o saxon_a reformation_n than_o to_o that_o of_o switzerland_n strasburgh_n france_n or_o scotland_n or_o what_o be_v afterward_o in_o holland_n our_o country_n be_v whole_o popish_a our_o priest_n zealous_a for_o they_o our_o common_a people_n so_o ignorant_a that_o their_o priest_n may_v have_v persuade_v they_o that_o it_o be_v their_o duty_n to_o eat_v hay_n with_o a_o horse_n not_o a_o english_a bible_n to_o be_v find_v in_o the_o nation_n until_o the_o middle_n of_o king_n henry_n 8._o reign_v the_o reformation_n go_v on_o under_o the_o conduct_n of_o a_o popish_a king_n till_o edward_n the_o 6_o come_v to_o the_o crown_n our_o reformer_n do_v not_o think_v fit_a at_o once_o to_o abolish_v all_o the_o popish_a trash_n though_o therefore_o they_o first_o turn_v much_o of_o the_o popish_a mass-book_n into_o english_a leave_v out_o much_o idolatrous_a and_o superstitious_a stuff_n yet_o they_o leave_v in_o it_o too_o much_o which_o cause_v a_o second_o common-prayer-book_n to_o be_v make_v in_o the_o time_n of_o edward_n the_o 6._o though_o his_o whole_a reign_n be_v but_o seven_o year_n then_o come_v queen_n mary_n and_o destroy_v all_o and_o the_o zealous_a protestant_n go_v out_o of_o the_o nation_n fix_v some_o at_o frankfort_n some_o at_o basil_n etc._n etc._n at_o frankfort_n the_o minister_n that_o first_o fix_v there_o use_v no_o prescribe_a form_n in_o their_o public_a worship_n till_o at_o length_n dr._n cox_n come_v among_o they_o with_o the_o common-prayer_n book_n make_v in_o edw._n 6._o time_n which_o make_v that_o woeful_a stir_n of_o which_o we_o have_v a_o account_n in_o the_o book_n call_v the_o trouble_n of_o frankfort_n in_o short_a dr._n cox_n get_v the_o magistrate_n on_o his_o side_n and_o force_v the_o rest_n away_o to_o geneva_n and_o other_o place_n when_o queen_n elizabeth_n come_v to_o the_o throne_n all_o know_v how_o great_a a_o man_n dr._n cox_n prove_v by_o his_o mean_n and_o some_o of_o his_o stamp_n the_o common-prayer-book_n be_v again_o revise_v and_o publish_v all_o minister_n enjoin_v to_o use_v it_o but_o what_o a_o dissent_n
author_n say_v next_o wherein_o he_o undertake_v a_o thing_n beyond_o all_o man_n viz._n to_o prove_v that_o in_o the_o apostle_n time_n and_o in_o the_o interval_n betwixt_o the_o burial_n of_o the_o jewish_a synagogue_n and_o the_o set_n up_o of_o the_o christian_a church_n set-form_n of_o divine_a service_n he_o shall_v have_v say_v of_o prayer_n for_o all_o minister_n be_v allow_v also_o aude_n aliquid_fw-la brevibus_fw-la gyni_fw-la &_o carcere_fw-la dignum_fw-la si_fw-la vis_fw-la esse_fw-la aliquis_fw-la i_o know_v none_o have_v undertake_v this_o neither_o dr._n hammond_n nor_o mr._n falconer_n this_o notion_n be_v but_o a_o probationer_n to_o the_o world_n let_v we_o examine_v what_o argument_n he_o have_v 1._o his_o first_o proof_n be_v from_o the_o apostle_n go_v to_o the_o temple_n to_o worship_n and_o pray_v act_v 2._o 46._o act_n 3._o 2._o and_o 2._o the_o apostle_n justify_v themselves_o act_v 25._o 8._o 24._o 12._o 28._o 17._o that_o they_o have_v nothing_o against_o the_o temple_n or_o the_o law_n and_o 3._o the_o jew_n tenaciousness_n of_o their_o ritual_n all_o which_o be_v prove_v well_o enough_o p._n 63_o 64._o but_o how_o will_v our_o author_n prove_v that_o the_o jewish_a minister_n in_o their_o temple-service_n use_v any_o prescribe_a form_n of_o prayer_n which_o other_o have_v make_v for_o they_o and_o enjoin_v they_o who_o be_v no_o inspire_a prophet_n or_o penman_n of_o holy_a writ_n he_o have_v not_o yet_o prove_v this_o or_o how_o will_v he_o prove_v that_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o in_o the_o temple_n or_o synagogue_n minister_v at_o any_o time_n by_o such_o form_n we_o will_v prove_v they_o sometime_o preach_v there_o but_o it_o lie_v upon_o our_o author_n to_o prove_v they_o read_v prayer_n for_o that_o we_o find_v not_o and_o we_o grant_v they_o may_v hear_v prayer_n that_o be_v form_n if_o the_o matter_n be_v good_a it_o be_v a_o sign_n of_o a_o ill_a cause_n or_o a_o weak_a disputant_n to_o pack_v on_o proof_n where_o none_o need_v but_o bring_v none_o where_o all_o the_o pinch_n and_o stress_n lay_v our_o author_n here_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v what_o be_v most_o notorious_o false_a that_o the_o apostle_n constant_o attend_v the_o jewish_a service_n both_o in_o the_o temple_n and_o synagognes_n only_o meet_v together_o in_o other_o place_n for_o the_o sacrament_n and_o such_o service_n as_o they_o can_v not_o join_v with_o the_o jew_n in_o but_o that_o be_v not_o to_o our_o purpose_n nor_o yet_o to_o examine_v how_o well_o by_o his_o dial_n he_o have_v rectify_v the_o sun_n translate_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d act_v 2._o 46._o in_o the_o house_n not_o from_o house_n to_o house_n nor_o at_o home_o as_o beza_n but_o he_o be_v not_o satisfy_v that_o in_o the_o christian_a assembly_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n there_o be_v no_o manner_n of_o form_n who_o say_v there_o be_v not_o there_o be_v a_o form_n of_o sound_a doctrine_n which_o the_o apostle_n tell_v we_o of_o there_o be_v psalm_n hymn_n and_o spiritual_a song_n in_o form_n they_o be_v the_o three_o title_n of_o david_n psalm_n we_o have_v nothing_o to_o do_v with_o any_o thing_n but_o form_n of_o prayer_n make_v by_o some_o particular_a minister_n or_o church_n officer_n to_o be_v use_v by_o all_o other_o minister_n he_o come_v a_o little_a to_o the_o point_n p._n 67._o his_o first_o pretend_a proof_n be_v what_o divers_a have_v touch_v upon_o before_o he_o 1_o tim._n 2._o 12._o we_o grant_v he_o from_o that_o text_n 1._o that_o the_o several_a sort_n of_o prayer_n be_v there_o mention_v 2._o that_o these_o several_a duty_n be_v to_o be_v do_v prayer_n of_o these_o several_a sort_n to_o be_v make_v for_o office_n observe_v that_o term_n seem_v to_o suggest_v something_o else_o not_o in_o the_o text_n but_o whereas_o he_o go_v on_o and_o tell_v we_o in_o the_o three_o place_n p_o 68_o that_o it_o be_v as_o clear_v that_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o christ_n have_v conceive_v and_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v in_o all_o age_n that_o the_o apostle_n in_o this_o place_n do_v intend_v to_o fix_v a_o rule_n of_o devotion_n and_o do_v order_v a_o platform_n and_o model_n to_o be_v observe_v in_o all_o public_a service_n and_o especial_o at_o the_o celebration_n of_o the_o holy_a communion_n if_o he_o mean_v a_o platform_n of_o word_n and_o phrase_n not_o to_o be_v vary_v from_o it_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v clear_a that_o no_o proof_n can_v be_v bring_v of_o it_o nor_o do_v as_o himself_o confess_v the_o apostle_n word_n enforce_v any_o such_o belief_n nor_o his_o follow_a quotation_n out_o of_o chrysostome_n ambrose_n or_o augustine_n prove_v the_o least_o of_o it_o all_o rest_v upon_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n since_o for_o which_o indeed_o much_o may_v be_v say_v after_o 600_o year_n after_o christ_n but_o nothing_o of_o any_o weight_n or_o moment_n before_o that_o time_n and_o for_o the_o church_n judgement_n in_o pope_n gregory_n time_n as_o to_o ritual_n it_o be_v a_o very_a ill_a proof_n of_o what_o be_v do_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n in_o all_o protestant_n judgement_n our_o author_n go_v on_o still_o and_o will_v not_o say_v it_o be_v demonstrable_a but_o he_o tell_v we_o it_o seem_v very_o probable_a that_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o do_v in_o their_o ordinary_a ministration_n observe_v form_n of_o prayer_n notwithstanding_o those_o extraordinary_a assistance_n of_o the_o spirit_n which_o they_o be_v blessed_v with_o strange_a the_o apostle_n what_o man_n that_o receive_v not_o their_o ministry_n of_o man_n nor_o by_o man_n but_o immediate_o from_o christ_n than_o he_o must_v give_v they_o their_o form_n man_n that_o have_v those_o extraordinary_a effusion_n of_o the_o spirit_n sure_o there_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d some_o divine_a thing_n in_o prescribe_a form_n or_o those_o that_o speak_v thus_o must_v use_v the_o same_o art_n with_o we_o to_o persuade_v we_o to_o their_o lure_n that_o romulus_n use_v with_o his_o silly_a roman_n who_o to_o 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