Selected quad for the lemma: house_n
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A31759
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The Charge of a Tory plot maintain'd in a dialogue between the Observator, Heraclitus, and an inferior clergy-man at the Towzer-Tavern : wherein the first discourse publish'd under that title is vindicated from the trifling animadversions of the Observator, and the accusation justified / by the same author.
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1682
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Wing C2052; ESTC R20652
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20,385
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42
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be any distrusting of providence nor does it appear that the means in question are unlawful any further than supposing them so makes them so Obs Now you act the Whig to the life for demonstrate a thing never so plainly they 're so obstinate you shall ne'r convince them Herac. They 're very refractory fellows I must confess But have you not something somewhere concerning the Bill of Exclusion's reaching the King Obs Oh yes 't is N. 131. If the Exclusion should pass it would manifestly shew that the Government were outwitted for it would reach the King as well as the Duke Herac. Well I see the King and the Government are still convertible terms with you signifiying one and the same thing But methinks the King is in a fine case betwixt you and the Whigs for that may stand well enough for the House of Commons For they cry the King's person c. cannot be safe without the Exclusion and you that he cannot be safe with it But why do not you prove your assertion as they have pretended to do theirs Obs Why though I do it not in this very place yet look but in the page before and I have done it 'T is but drawing of one Stone out of the building many times that brings the whole fabrick upon your head Just so remove but the Duke and the King cannot stand Herac. But there 's an old rule That similitudes illustrate but do not prove And why should not the King stand though the House fall But now for my part I think the Whigs speak reason for seeing the King is reputed an Heretick by the Catholicks and when he is removed they have hopes of a Popish Successor He is apparently in double danger both as he 's taken for an Heretick and so it may be no sin to murther him and also because in their opinion he keeps a better man from the Crown and one that has more right to it And besides the Whigs still affirm and you dare not deny it that for these reasons there were several that actually undertook the Job and I know not that their designs or principles are yet changed But I care not for medling with these Edge-tools let 's pass to the power and priviledges of Parliament t is safe enough to speak freely there for mortui non mordent Obs As for the power of Parliaments The House of Commons are as much subjects to the King joyntly at severally N. 131. They are made choice of by subjects to represent as subjects Their Commission is Temporary and limited to the Ends for which they were call'd and chosen And those Ends and Powers must be circumscribed by the Qualifications and Capacities of those that chose them for the case is the same as betwixt a Trustee and his Principal N. 135. Herac. The summ of what you say is this That the House of Commons have no more power than those that chose them Now I am not of your mind Nor is there any correspondence between Free-holders and a House of Commons and a Principal and his Trustee For a Principal can both pitch upon the person and limit the Power of his Trustee but so cannot the Free-holders of their Representatives in Parliament For though they elect the Persons yet the Power is from the Law and can neither be enlarged nor abridged by the Electors You know no subject has power over the Life or Estate of his fellow-subject And yet when twelve are elected or nominated by the Sheriff they have a greater power than the King himself in depriving a man of either which they have not from their Elector but from the Law Obs No but they have their power from the King whose Minister the Sheriff is Herac. If we should grant that it would come still to the same thing for the King must owe it to the Law that he can give such a power For if he had it absolutely of himself he might himself adjudge any man to death that he thinks deserves it which you know he cannot do Obs Well but what 's this to the business Herac. 'T is only the very same case For as the King gives the Sheriff power to nominate the Jurors who after their Impannelling have a power which neither he that nominated them gave them nor themselves have singly and apart so by the several Writs directed to be proclaim'd by the Sheriffs Bailiffs c. the King gives the people a power to Elect Members for Parliament who being return'd and assembl'd in the House are by the Law and Constitution of the Government invested in a power which neither their Electors have nor themselves had before they were so assembled They have not such a power indeed as Jurors have but they have a power that is proper and peculiar to them AS they are one of the three Estates in Parliament Obs Well but with all this what kind of power is this these Commons have seeing the King is the SOLE Soveraign and they are only to do their part toward the furnishing of Materials for New Laws where they are Defective N. 135. Herac. The King indeed is a Monarch and that is as much as sole Governour not absolutely but in a limited sence and suo modo He 's sole Governour as to the Administration not sole in Legislation For I do not think the Lords and Commons to be only Labourers to serve up Materials to the King to build new Laws withal but to pursue your Metaphor they are Builders as well as He. Obs How can that be for let them Vote and Pass their Hearts out all signifies nothing without Le Roy le veult or Soit fait come il est desire Herac. 'T is true the King has a Negative Voice but consider it well and 't is no more than what either House have For let the Commons pass a Bill and the Lords can reject it and on the contrary though the rejecting House know that the King so much favour the Bill that he would most certainly pass it into an Act if they would but give their consent to it So that it is evident the consent of either House is as necessary in order to the making of an Act as the King 's is And indeed the usual preface to all Acts evidences this plainly viz. Be it Enacted by the King 's most Excellent Majesty by and with the advice and CONSENT of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and of the Commons in Parliament Assembled and by the AVTHORITY of the same Here you have the Consent and Authority of the two Houses linked with the King 's Seeing therefore part of the power of Making Laws is in the Commons Assembled in Parliament and they have no such power out of Parliament but can then only Obey them 't is plain they are not in all respects as much subjects joyntly as severally unless to make Laws and obey them be the same thing Nor do I know to what purpose you should so much
insist upon this point unless you intend it as a bait to catch some fool with that would be nibbling at the disparaging of the King's Prerogative as you speak in another case of the Plot N. 130. Obs Why that 's the bottom on 't and I hope I shall catch some or other Herac. Well enough for the Power let 's pass to the priviledges of Parliament What do you think of them Obs As to the Power Priviledges and freedom of English Parliaments tell me what it is first and what they are and I 'll give you my Answer The four Inns of Court them selves are not able to determine what they are N. 132. I had rather forty times the King should lay me by the heels without shewing cause for it than a House of Commons and be a Slave to an Imperial Prerogative than to a popular priviledge N. 135. Herac. You were once indeed pretty near being laid by the heels but all the cunning's in catching But what signifies it what you had rather I think there is no necessity to be made slaves either to prerogative or priviledge which are both useful and wholsome enough when they do not exceed their bounds Now seeing neither you nor your four Inns of Court can tell what these priviledges are or upon what they are bottom'd I 'll tell you my opinion I think they stand much upon the same terms with Prerogative part of which is confirmed by express Law and part has no other foundation but Prescription the Kings and Queens of this Realm having exercised such a power in such and such cases time out of mind and this part of the Prerogative I look to be as firm as the other For prescription or Common usage time out of mind is Common Law in all cases Nor is there any reason why the Sovereign should not enjoy the benefit of that Maxime as well as the meanest subject nor why the House of Commons should not enjoy it as well as either 'T is true both Prerogative and Priviledge may be strained too far or something may be call'd so that is not so but shall we therefore deny there are any such things or turn them into ridicule It signifies little what you shall deny to be priviledge or I to be prerogative for I doubt the King will think himself a more competent Judge of the one and the Parliament of the other Obs Let them think what they please but it does not stand with the Constitution of this Government to suppose them to be competent Judges of their own priviledges For it is an abandoning of the very essentials of Church and State to their Mercy What if they should seise upon the Militia the King ' s Magazins and Shipping Levy Arms coin Money c. and tell ye all this is done by priviledges of Parliament It would be no more than what we have seen and suffer'd already under the same pretence Though I do not say that since the damn'd Apostasie of Fourty One and the period of that accursed Train of Rebellions we have labour'd under Many Abuses of that kind N. 135. Herac. Well this Fourty one is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 excellent at a dead lift 'T is a Fac totum the Philosophers stone a Panaceia 't is good for every thing Now do not poor I Mr. Whig know i' the world what to say But however I am resolv'd to stand to my tackle and see what can be said and will maintain that though the Parliament be held to be the sole competent Judges of their own priviledges this is neither against the constitution of the Government nor do Church and State lye at their mercy for all the Apostasie of Fourty One You will grant me that 't is necessary to all Secular Government that there should be a supreme Power from whence there should be no Appeal and that in Absolute Monarchies this is the Sovereign only but in Limited the highest or supreme Court Obs What I warrant you 'l be for Mr. Prynn's Sovereign Power of Parliaments Herac. No hold there I am not for a Parliament's usurping a Power over the King and invading his Prerogative I only affirm this that beyond the High Court of Parliament there lies no Appeal Obs Well but Appeals are only made to the House of Lords which is a Court of Record and of Judicature but what 's this to the House of Commons Herac. 'T is as much for my purpose to the one as to the other For though they be two Houses they are but one Parliament and have community of priviledges And originally they were but one House This Sir Edw. Cook while he was Speaker of the House of Commons in 35 Eliz. has made out for me At first we were all one House and sate together but the Commons sitting in presence of the King and amongst the Nobles disliked it and found fault that they had not free liberty to speak And upon this reason that they might speak more freely being out of the Royal sight of the King and not amongst the great Lords so far their Betters the House was divided and came to sit asunder A bold and worthy Knight at the time when this was sought the King desiring a reason of this their request and why they would remove themselves from their Betters answered shortly That his Majesty and the Nobles being every one a great person represented but themselves but the Commons though they were but inferiour men yet every one of them represented a thousand of men And this Answer was well allowed of But now though we be divided in Seat be we therefore divided Houses No for if any writ of Error be brought as you shall see a notable Case in 22 E. 3. this Writ must be returned in Parliament that is to the whole House and chiefly to the Upper House for We are but a Limb of the House Never any Man saw a writ returnable in the Lower House Yet I speak not this to take any priviledge from this House for it is certain whatsoever we do sitting the Parliament it is an Act of the whole Court for the Lords without the Commons and the Commons without the Lords can do nothing Vid. Journ of Parl. of Q. Eliz. page 515 516. You see here what unity and consent there is between the two Houses so that one can have no priviledge in which the other is not interested Judgments indeed upon Writs of Errour are given by the Lords but being the Writs are returned in Parliament the sentence is constructively the Commons also unless one would be so absurd as to call the House of Lords the Parliament as some do the House of Commons But to make this plainer yet You know the Upper House has no Jurisdiction over the Lower so as to take cognizance of any thing transacted therein otherwise than by desiring Conference and that the Lower House has as well over the Upper but in both cases it is improperly called Jurisdiction for at