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A14368 A stronge battery against the idolatrous inuocation of the dead saintes, and against the hauyng or setting up of images in the house of prayer, or in any other place where there is any paril of idolatrye, made dialoguewise by Iohn Veron VĂ©ron, John, d. 1563. 1562 (1562) STC 24686; ESTC S102670 105,295 264

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worshipped or that are kepte in places where there is any peryl of idolatry As for the brasen Serpente besydes that it was a figure of our sauiour Iesu Christ as he him selfe doth testifye The brsen serpent Iohn 3. saying As Moyses exalted the serpente in the wildernesse so the sonne of man must be exalted that whosoeuer beleueth in hym should not perishe but haue euerlasting life there was an expresse commaundement touching it But no such thing can they aleadge for their ymages Againe at the beginning whiles Moses and certaine godly iudges did liue no man did worshippe the brasen Serpent no man did offer incēse vnto it but at length by processe of tyme it dydde growe in to an wonderful superstition Whyche thing beynge perceaued by that moste holye kynge Ezechias 1. Kin ●8 he dydde not sende prophetes for to admonyshe and warne people that the brasen serpent was not set vp of Moses for to bee woorshipped but for to be a memorial or remembrāce and that therfor it ought not to be worshipped howbeit it ought to be kept stil and the abuse to be taken awaye but dydde cause it to be put doune to be beaten in to pouder and to be caste into a ryuer He dyd not passe for the long obseruāce and that it hadde continued about seuen hundred yeares or more and that there had bene many holy and godlye kynges afore hym which did winke at the matter And yet we read that he was greatlye praysed for this acte VVould god al princes of his 〈◊〉 ●ome 〈◊〉 for 〈…〉 ●●chias Let all princes in Christendome doo the like vnto these images that idolatry hath bene committed vnto althoughe at the beginnynge they were not set vppe for to bee woorshypped but for to bee monumentes or remembraunces Now 〈◊〉 ●on dydde not therfore brynge into the temple oxen lions The 〈…〉 likenesses of byrdes with such other thynges that by th●i● he myghte represente GOD or admonysshe the people of holye thynges or that ●●y shoulde bee bookes vnto the ●●mple and ignoraunte but that therwith he might adorne and beautifie the vesselles of the temple And therfore they were made for a trymmyng and deckynge and not for to be worshipped DYDIMVS And maye wee not dooe the lyke for to trymme and decke oure churches with all EVTRAPF Yf ye hadde said for to bringe in gaynes and lucre than had ye tolde the truthe The temples of the christians do requyre an other manner of deckyng or t●immynge Be it so that Cherubin whiche are likenesses of aungelles were sette about the mercye seate what doth that make for their idolatry or what doth that proue that ymages do teache For neyther do we reade that any godly honour was doone vnto them nor the arke set forth abroade vnto the people but kept secretly in the holiest place For it was not lawfull for to beholde it with prophane eyes as wee maye see in the iiii chapiter of the Numbers and seconde Paralypomenon and fifth chapiter Cherobin why they were made Moreouer the Cherubin were nothing elles but signes of the presence of GOD and a certayne peculiar institution and ordeynaunce of God But no man will say that the peculiar ordinaunces of God are preiudiciall to his vniuersall lawes Elias did sett vp an altare in Carmelus against the writen lawe of god and yet he dyd not offende Certaine other dyd the lyke and yet they may not vppon these peculiar actes gather an vniuersall conclusion against the lawe of sette foorth in the .xii. chapi of Deuteronomie For the vniuersall law is not abrogated by certain priuiledges and dispensations granted of god The lyke may we say of the titles whiche Iosuah and Samuell dyd sette vp agaynst the written lawe accordyng to the qualitie of the presente state of the tymes and of the persons In the meane while the vniuersall law of god whiche forbiddeth all menne to make images or to worship them standeth still vnmouable and is always of lyke force and strengthe Dydimus Why then An other 〈◊〉 ob●● 〈…〉 yf they bee not woorshypped or yf no godly honour bee doone vnto them they may be had But who would thinke that men are so bulleheaded that they wyll worshyp dumme ymages Answer and not rather the thynges that are signified and represented by them Eutrape Ye haue learned alreadye of oure brother Philalethes that God onelye ought to be worshipped Deuter ● But God can bee represented by no manner of similitude or ymage yea there is an expresse lawe that doth forbid vs to attempt any suche thinge And where as ye saye that men are not so dul●e headed that they will worshippe dumme ymages the experience hath taughte vs the contrarye For aboue a thousande yeares ago the people dyd thorough ygnoraunce of the lawe of God and the negligence of bishoppes begynne to worshippe dumme ymages ●erenus bi●hop of ma●●ilia I haue for a witnesse of thys thynge Serenus bishoppe of Massilia who dydde in hys citye breake downe the ymage of Chryste and the ymages of the Saynctes because that he sawe theym to bee worshipped of the people I knowe well that Gregorye didde sore impugne that facte of hys but what Scripture dothe he brynge for to improue S●renus deade None at all Moreouer yf as ye saye they dydde not worshyppe the ymages but the thynges represented by theym Why hauynge the roode and ymage of the vrygyne Ma●ye at home in her owne churches Let the enemies aun●●er to this ●●●ction of euery can dydde they goe a gaddynge to oure Ladye of Wilsdone to our Ladye of Walsingame to the holye roode of Bostonne Was not thys a prayne and a manifeste token and sygne that they were wedded to the images that they thoughte more holynesse to bee in the one thanne in the other Elles woulde they haue contented theym selues with those ymages that they hadde at home in their owne churches and spared both co●● and labour which they bestowed vpon then idolatrous pilgrimages PHILALETHES Sayeng a littell before that GOD canne bee represented by no manner of similitude and ymage ye dydde putte me in minde of the words of Athanasius Athana in ●bio cont●a gentes whiche are these Lette theym tell me I praye theym howe GOD dothe aunswere or is knowen by suche thynges Is it by the mater or stuffe that is about them and whereof they bee made or by the form and shape that is geuen them Yf it bee by the stuffe what neade is there of the forme or shape And why dyd not God rather afore they were fashioned and shapen appeare and manyfest hymself by the vniuersall stuffe But yf the form or shape that they haue receaued is the cause of the knowledge of God what nede is there of golde or of any other stuffe Mark vvei these vvordes of Athanasius or why is not God rather reuealed by the true liuyng creatures whose shapes and formes the ymages are for truly according
ymages Scarcelye one halfepeny is geuen to Christ beyng an hungerd in his poore lymmes but men can will fynd in their hartes to geue whole hundreths of crounes towardes the setting vp and trimmyng of images DYDIMVS Oh preposterous deuotion I knowe a churche where the roode and roode lofte did coste eleuen score poundes Philalethes But yf they had bestowed but halfe that money vppon the poore of their parishe in the time of the great dearth that was then or there about they wold haue thought them selues vndoone Lette them reade Clemens fyft booke which they say he didde write to Iames the brother of the lord Yf ye will saith he worship truely the ymage of the lord we shewe that vnto you Hovv vve may ho●● the ymage of god a right which is true do good vnto mā which is made after the ymage of God honour and reuerence hym feede hym whenne he is an hungered geue hym drynke when he is a thyrste clothe hym being naked harboure him beyng harbourlesse visite him whenne he is sicke a●●n prison and minister vnto hym th●●e thynges that he hath neede of It foloweth what honoring of god is this to runne agaddyng to wooden and stonye ymages and to worship insensible and lyuelesse ydoles and in the meane whyle to dispise man in whome is the image of god Vnderstand therfore that this is the persuasiō of the serpent that lyeth hidde within who persuadeth you that ye shall seeme godlye when ye doo honour and worship vnsensible idoles adn that ye shall not seeme vngodlye when ye hurte the sensible and reasonable creatures Eutr Who hearing and markyng all these thinges and waying the harmes that come by images would not be at defyaunce with them Euerye man I trowe But yet this is not all For what hurt and losse hath all Christendome receaued by the occasion of ymages For as the ymages whyche Salomon didde in his olde age erecte and sette vppe were the cause of the schisme and deuision that was after his deathe in Israell I meane that at one clap Images causes of diuision in the common vvelthe of Israell and also in the empire whole ten tribes didde fall away from the house of Dauid and did chose vnto theimselues a kyng Hieroboam the Ephraimite who settynge vp the golden calues in Dan and Bethel caused all Israell to committe moste detestable ydolatrie wherof vtter destruction of bothe the realmes did ensue and folowe so the contention that dyd ryse about images betwixt the east and west churches and the damnable stoutenesse of the byshop of Rome with his adherentes in mainteinyng and defendyng not onely the ymages but also the ydolatrous woorshyppyng of theym dydde breede a very hurtefull diuysion in the Empire whereby all Christendome was wonderfully weakened For after that Rauenna with rest of Italye and all Fraunce with Germanie were by the subtile and wylye meanes of the byshoppe of Rome reuolted and fallen away from the Emperor of Constantinople The Sarasens and Mahometistes did ware wonderfully strong and at lengthe didde meruaylously preuayle For they subdewed myghtye peoples Realmes Cities defacyng and puttynge downe euery where the trewe religion of Christe The mischiefe that the contention aboute the ymage● did breede and settyng vppe the Mahometishe religion This was the goodly fruite of the settynge vppe of ymages of the mainteynyng of the ydolatrous woorshyppynge of theym and of the contention that dyd ryse aboute thym whyles the one dyd affirme accordynge to the scriptures that ymages ought in no wyse to bee hadde and the other agaynste the expresse worde of God and commaundement that they ought not onely to bee hadde but also to bee woorshypped whereof such an enuye and hatered dydde ryse betwyxte theym that they woulde in no wyse healpe ayde and succoure one an other agaynst the commune enemie beyng in this poynt mooste lyke vnto Iuda and Israell whyche after their dyuision whyche chaunced by reason of Idolles neuer loued or trusted one an other seekyng the frendshyppe and amitie of forayne kynges and princes nowe of the Assyrians nowe of the Babylonians now otherwhyles of the Egyptians that so they myghte the sooner destroye one an other till at length by the righteous iudgemente of God they were bothe delyuered vp into the handes of theyr ennemyes Dydimus I woulde fayn heare the whole hystorie if it were not tedious vnto you EVTRAPELVS The hystorie is very long and therefore I wyll hereafter sende it vnto you by writyng Dydimus I holde my selfe well contente with it and specially sythe that bothe oure brother Philalethes and you haue so welle satisfied our mindes in this matter Albion In deede I was neuer better satisfied in this poynt thatn I am now I thanke God moste hartily for it Fyrst and formost we haue learned that God onely oughte to bee called vppon and prayed vnto ●he conclu●on of the ●hole boke And that therefore they that in theyr necessities doo by prayer flye vnto dead creatures do robbe God of his glorie and doo commytte moste damnable sacriledge Whyche thynge was sufficientely proued by manyfest textes of the scriptures and by strong authorities of the ancient fathers of the primitiue Churches all the obiections that the aduersaries can make beyng mightily aunswered and confuted Secondly ye haue playnely shewed vnto vs that we ought to acknowledge none other mediatour betwixt god man but oure Sauiour Iesus Christe onelye whome the Scriptures doo appoyncte vnto vs for the omnisufficient sauiour of mankynde and for our onely intercessoure aduocate and mediatour makyng no mention at all of the intercession or mediation of the deade Sainctes whiche thyng the Holy ghoste woulde not haue omitted yf the dead Sainctes or the Saintes departed out of this world hadde been eyther appoyncted or allowed of god to be intercessors vnto hym for vs. The textes of the scriptures and the authorities of the ancient writers by you alleadged are so many are so myghtie stronge that the enemies of the truth may be ashamed to maintain styll theyr grosse and idolatrous opinion Thirdely it hathe been declared that as the sayntes that bee already in glorie with God oughte not to bee called vpon nor to be taken for oure mediatours so no godly honour ought to be geuen vnto them forasmuche as it is a seruice whyche is due onely vnto God Where ye hadde an occasion to shewe howe many ways the trewe and faythfull seruauntes of God beynge departed hence in the faith of his sonne Iesu Christe maye bee honoured and that the greatest honour that we canne do vnto them is to obey their godly and sounde doctrine wherby they haue instructed vs in the trewe relygyon and worshipping of the true onelye god and also to folowe their faith and other heauenly vertues wherby they did gloryfie God whiles they lyued here in this worlde This also was doone by the infallible worde of God and testimonies of the holy Doctors of the true Catholike church all the obiections of the aduersaries beyng quite ouerthrowen by the same Laste of all ye haue proued that no fygure ymage or lykenesse of God nor of his sonne Iesu Christe nor of the Holy ghoste nor yet of the saintes oughte to bee hadde in the house of prayer or in any other place where so euer there is any perille of idolatrie And that there can be no vse of theym in the Oratories or prayeng places of the Christians but rather that they doo moste hurte where soeuer they be vsed and kepte Ye haue shewed by the waye what is the true Crosse that we ought to delyte and haue a pleasure in and that as for the materiall crosses they doo more hurt than good and that therfore for auoiding of offences they ought to be taken away These thynges haue beene so substantiallye done that I holde my selfe satisfyed in all poyntes and I do gene God moste hartye thankes that wee haue so well spent this day Dydimus In dede this day was frutefully spent Laude and praise be vnto god therfore for euer and euer EVTRAPE Amen FINIS ¶ IMPRINTED AT London by Henry Sutton for Thomas ●acket Ther. daye of Marche In the yere of our Lorde God 1561.
Christians and to cleaue onelye to Christe and by him to be made one with the father If the saintes do all thinges yf they haue the gouernement tuition defense protection of cities and townes if the standing manfullye in battaile the rennyng awaye and victory if the curinge of diseases if the benefit of health be in their hāds if they haue power ouer the windes stormes tempestes if they possesse al the lymmes of a mannes body what doth god in the meane while Where is his diuyne prouidence will they say that god being wearye doeth cōmit the gouernement of his creatures vnto other But no suche infirmities is god subiect vnto It is euident and pla●ne then right honorable sir that they doe make of him a plaine Idole yea they make of him no god at all For take his diuine prouidēce away or make him subiect to any infirmities and then he is no god It is farre otherwise with vs. Howe the faithful do confesse god For beinge instructed by the scriptures and worde of god we do wholly depend vpon his fatherly prouidence vsing with most harty thankefulnes all those lawful meanes that he hath appointed and ordeyned for vs and so gyue him onelye the whole glorye of the gouernement of al thinges for the commoditye and profit of his chosen and electe people A denial of god Again is not this a denial of god to go aboute to worshippe and serue him otherwise then he himself doeth appoint and prescribe in his holy and sacred word Socrates being an heathen Socrates doeth plainlye say that in religion it is requir●d that euery god be worshipped after his own wil and not after the wil of his worshippers If this did take place in false religiō howe muche more ought it to take place in true religion I meane in that religion that god hath set fourth vnto vs by his eternal and euerlasting wisedome Deut. xii These are his wordes Ye shal not do euery man that thing that seemeth vnto you best I am the Lorde my god that thing only that I commaunde thee se that thou doest it add nothing vnto it and minish nothing from it Again Math xv They worship me in vaine teaching the doctrines and preceptes of men But howe wel these thinges haue bene and are obserued of our frends the catholikes let your honour be iudge Those wayes that god wil be worshipped and serued they haue stoutly contemned chose eueri day straunge kindes of worshipping and seruice which the Lord doeth not once mencion of in the scriptures This then is an other differēce betwixt them and vs How the god●y do worship god that we will haue god to be honoured worshipped and serued accordinge to his worde and as he himselfe doeth appointe and prescribe in his sacred scriptures submitting our selues wholy our wit and reason al the wisdome that can be in vs vnto his vnsercheable wisdome and cōtenting our selues with that fourme and maner of religyon that he hath sett fourthe vnto vs by his sonne Iesu Christ whom he hath appointed by his holy spirit to be the only teacher scholemaster of his church Mat. xvii we do study labour to the vttermost of our power with al due submission and obedience to kepe our selues within the limites and boundes of his prescribed rules Canons hauing alwayes this saying of Samuell before our eyes Samu. xv Hath the lord as great pleasure in burnt offeringes and sacrifices as when the voice of the Lord is obeyed Behold to obeye is b●●ter then sacrifice and to hearken is better then the fatt of Rammes Mat xv Whereas they neglect nge g●des commaundementes that so they may set vp their owne traditions and going about moste vngodlye to sett the wisedome of god to schoole do bring in all maner of tr●ssh tr●ssh shippes full of dombe and beggerly ceremonies whiche they vrge with fire and sworde Wherin doeth consisterie outwarde worshipping of god and maintain them with al kinde o● cruel t●r●●nye Whereby the externe and outward worshippinge of god whiche consisteth in the preaching of the doctrine and in the right and due ministration of the sacramentes accordinge to the institution and ordeynaunce of our sauiour Iesu Christe and in the faythful prayers of the church is clen abolyshed and put downe Read the ouerthrow of the iustification of workes for that Howe peryllous a thinge it is to attempte to serue god otherwise than he himself doth appointe it is easye to see in the x. Chapyt of Leuiticus and in the ij booke of Samuel and syxt chapt and in the .i. boke of Cronicles xiii chapyter well this is most sure and certain that they do prefarre their wisedome before the wisdome of god ▪ which is a playne denial of god For yf he be not of a perfect wysdome he is no god Againe this that they do is a manifest forsaking of the couenaunt of the lorde A forsaking of the couenaunte of god Howe the aduersaries do cōfesse christ Math. viii What it is to confesse Christe aright as it may be proued by manye places of the scryptures but specially by the xxij chap. of Ieremy the Prophete But now let vs come to their confession of our sauyour Iesu Christ How do they confesse him I pray you Euen as the vnclean spirytes did who euery where acknowledged him to be the sonn of god the sonne of the highest To confesse Christe a right then it is not onely to confesse him to be true and naturall god equall and of one substaunce with the father and to be true natural man equal and of one substaunce with vs beyng in al thinges lyke vnto his bretherne synne only excepted But to confesse and acknowledge him to be an omnisufficyent and moste perfect Sauiour of all those that beleaue in hys name and put their whole trust in the merytes of his death passion and bloudsheddinge and to be the onely mediatour betwixt God and men For therefore did he come Wherfore Christ came into the flesh Ioa. iii. T●moth i Hel iu. vii Actes iiii and did take vpō him our fraile nature that destroiyng the works of the diuel he should saue sinners most perfectly and to the vttermost I meane as manye as come vnto God by him so that there is none other name vnder heauen geuen vnto men wherin we muste be saued but the name of our sauiour Iesu Christe This therefore is oure confession and beleue that by the merites onelye of the death passion and bloodshedding of oure sauiour Iesu Christe being apprehended and taken holde vpon by faythe we obteyne full saluation forgeuenes of our synnes and deliueraunce from eternal and euerlasting damnation Whefore we do attryhute vnto him the whole glorye of the saluation of mankinde acknoweledgynge hym to be oure onelye mediatoure aduocate and intercessour accordinge to these scriptures I am the waye the trueth and the life ▪ Iohn
then euidence and playne that we do not withoute a iuste cause dissent from the Catholikes and so earnestlye impugne their damnable and wicked opinions But nowe to come to our pourpose here in thys my booke I do mayntayne and defende agaynste theym that god onelye in the tyme of oure trouble ought to be called vppon and that therefore they that in their necessytyes do by prayer flye vnto deade creatures doe robb god of his glory and do committ most damnable sacriledge which thing hath ben sufficientlye proued by manifest textes of the scriptures and by strong authorityes of the auncient fathers of the primityue Church all the obiections that the aduersaries can make beyng mightily auswered and confuted The hol● argumēt of the booke Secondly it hath bene plainely shewed that we ought to acknowledge none other mediator betvvixte God and man but oure sauiour Iesu Christ onely whom the scriptures do appoint vnto vs for the omnisufficient sauiour of man kynde and for our only intercessour aduocate and mediatour Making no mention at all of the intercession or mediation of the dead faintes which thing the holye ghost woulde not haue omitted yf the saintes departed oute of this world had bene either appointed or alowed of god to be intercessours vnto god for vs. Thirdly it hath ben declared that as the saints that be already in glory with god ought in no wise to be called vpon nor to be takē for our mediatours so no godly honor ought to be geuē vnto thē forasmuch as it is a seruice which is only due vnto god Wher I had an occasiō to shew how many ways the true faithfull seruantes of god being departed in the faith of his son Iesu Christ ma● be honored that the greatest honor that we can do vnto them is to obey their godly and sound doctrine wherby they haue instructed vvin the true religion worshipping of the true liuing God and also to folow their faith and other heauenly vertues wherby they did glorifye God whilest they lyued here in this worlde This also hath ben done by the infallible worde of god testimonies of the holy doctours of the true catholike churche all the obiections of the aduersaries as before beyng quite ouerthrowen by the same Last of all it hath ben proued that no figure ymage or likenes of god nor of his son Iesu Christ nor of the holy ghost nor yet of the Saintes ought to be had in the house of praier nor in any other place whersoeuer ther i● any peryll of idolatry and that there can be no vse of them in the Oratories or praying places of the Christians ▪ but rather that they doo most hurte whersoeuer they be vsed and kept where by the waye I haue shewed what is the true crosse that we ought to embrace and haue a pleasure in and that as for material crosses they do more hurte than good that therfore for auoiding of offences they ought to be taken away These are the chiefe and principall contente of this booke wh●ch I do most humbly and with all due submission dedicate and offer vnto your good lordship desiring your honour to accept and take it in good part which thing if ye do it shall encorage me to attempte greater thinges ▪ for the aduancemēt of gods glory ▪ and for the edifieng of his churche Thus the lorde god of hostes the autour of all goodnes vouchsafe to preserue your honour my good lady your wife and all your good familie and householde The Table of this Boke A True tale Folio 101. A worthie historie fol. 74. A good shift of the papistes fo 10 A differēce betwixt sinners eodē A short exposition of Cypriās words 41. A priuate mans facte fol. 31. A place out of the .xxxii. chapiter of Exodus folio 51. Abels bloode crieth for vengeance fo 24 Absalon and his historie fo 15. All sainctes that be in glory haue ben saued onely by the mercy of god fo 11. Antonomasia what it is fol. 53. Ambrose woordes fo 14. 86. 95. 100. Antechrist worketh signes miracles 8. An historie to be marked of Christian kinges and princes fol. 33. Applyeng of the similitude fol. 10. At the day of iudgement folio 22. Augustines wordes in so many places as he is alledged in this booke fol. 11. 19. 21 27. 38. 42. 43. 46. 47. 57. 61. 64. 7● 96. 97. 101. A small shifte fol. 99. Answere to fonde obiections 78. Athanassus wordes fol. 83. A strong argumēt against the papists 86. Angell the papiste I woulde haue sayde the catholike fol. 95. A notable historie of Antony fo 103. B. Brasen serpent fol. 80. Baruh of what dead he speaketh of 59 Beastlynesse of the papistes in alleagyng the scriptures fol. 58. C. Christe why he is worshipped fo 74 Crosse taken for affliction and trouble It is also taken for continuall repentance and mortifieng of the fleshe fol. 94. Cherubin why they were made fo 81 Christe hath spoken neuer a worde of the inuocation of sainctes fo 5. and whom they be that he will saue fol. 19. Colyridiani what they be fo 72. Chrysostome and his wordes 16. 73. Crosse taken for the death of Christ and preachyng of the same fol. 94. Cyprian and his sayenges 40. 56. 67. Constantine and Archadius fo 58 Cyrillus wordes fol. 73. Concilium To●ctan●●● fol. 8● D. Damascene Gardeners chiefe refuge folio 95. 100. Doctrine scarsly alowed by the pope 58. E. Ezechias exaumple is to bee folowed of good princes fol. 81. Eunomius and his heresie fol. 38. Epiphantus and his wordes fol. 72. Epiphanius byshoppe of Salamena in Cypres folio 92. Erasmus censore vpon Saint Hieromes boke agaynst Vigilantius 30. his Endion 70. and in his annotations fol. 86. Epiphanius in buildyng gods house 93. Example of the publican fol. 12. F. Fonde obiectious of the papistes fo 78. G. Goddes creatures all of theim may bee the bokes of the laie people for 1●4 God onely ought to be called vpon fo 3. and why he doothe good to menne here in the earthe fol. 29. God will not haue vs attribute our felicitie vnto creatures fol. 67. H. Helias why he was taken vp in bodye and soule folio 35. Helizeus and why the dead that was cast into his graue was raised agayn fo 36. He onely oughte to bee called vppon in whome we doo beleue fol. 5. Heresye and schisme vnto whome it is layde fol. ● Holy angels will haue no sacrifice 48. Howe the name of God was in his aungelles fol. 47. Howe the place alleadged out of the .ix. of Iohn ought to be vnderstanded fo 12. Howe God dothe honor his saintes fo 71 Hierome and his woordes 25. 29. ●0 31. 37. 39. 48. 86. 95. Howe we may honour the image of God aryghte I fol. 104. Images and why the papistes wyll haue them in their churches fol. 74. 77. 84. Images of the gentils 87. they ought to be put downe in all churches fol. 90.
the inuocation or calling vpon of the dead saints For why should he els say that the chirsten people did keepe the me●ories or remembrāces of the martyrs that they might be helped by their prayers Philaleth● ▪ But howe dothe this agree with that whiche he writeth bothe in this place and also in the two and twentieth boke De ciuitate Dei and tenth chapiter He saith plainely in the place before alleaged that they did not set vp altars nor yet offered vp sacrifices vnto the martyres And in the boke De ciuitate Dei which we spake of euē now he writeth thus The Gentiles haue builded temples set by altars ordeined priests and offred sacrifices vnto their gods But we do not buyld vp temples vnto our martirs as vnto gods but remembrances as vnto dead men whose spirites soules do lyue with God Neither doo we there set vp aultars in the whiche we shold offer sacrifices vnto martires but we do offer sacrifices vnto the only God of the martirs and ours at the which sacrifice as men of God which haue ouercomed the world with theyr confession they are in theyr place and in their order named And yet they be not called vpon or prayed vnto of the priest that offreth the sacrifice For Praiers are ●●e sacrifi●es of the ele●● a●d ●●osen of god he is the priest of god not theirs Nowe this is most euident plaine the prayers are the sacrifices of the saints I mean of the elect and chosen people of God beyng sanctified in the blood of his son Iesus Christ we mai cōclude then euē vpon the wordes of S. Augustin that prayers ought to be offered vnto God only and not vnto the dead sainctes that is that God onely not the dead saintes ought of al the godly to be called vpon Herevnto dothe that belong and pertaine whiche he speaketh also in that place sayenge Sancti vel homines vel angeli id sibi tribu● nolunt quod vni deo deberi no●unt Holy men or holye aungelles will not haue the same to bee attributed vnto theym which they knowe to be due vnto God onely We maye gather by this that they will none of our prayers nor of our inuocation The proude diuelishe spirites do vsurpe that which doth perteine vnto God onely Therefore as Daniell woulde aske nothyng of any man Danie ● but of God only so all the godly will in their praiers call vpon none other but on the true lyuyng God thorough his sonne Iesus Christ our lord and of him only aske all thynges that they haue neede of Nowe as touching his opinion wherby he doothe thynke and suppose that the soules of the righteous doo pray for vs in heauen for as much as it is only grounded vpon coniectures or gessyng and not vppon the infallible worde of God nor vpon any strong argumentes or reasons taken out of the same we may without any perill of our saluation reiect or refuse it cleauing vnto that whiche we haue alleadged before oute of his booke De cura pro mortuis agenda wher he goūdeth himselfe altogether vpon the holy scriptures affirmyng that the blessed soules departed be paste all sollicitude and care for the liuing Albion Nowe sithe that the sayinges of the fathers will not helpe ●h ect 15 e● 48 I will come to the plain scriptures These are Iacobs wordes The aungell which hath deliuered me from all euill blesse the children let my name be called vpon them and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac In this autoritye of the scriptures they note two speciall thinges Fyrste how that Iacob dothe confesse that he was deliuered by the aungell and that this aungel doth blesse Secondly how that his name and the name of his fathers shoulde be called vpon those children which is as much as if he should haue sayde They shall call vppon my name and vpon the name of my forefathers ●ach● 1. Herunto do they adde this place of Zacharye And the aungell of the Lorde aunswered and sayde O Lorde of hostes how lōg wilt thou be vnmercifull to Hierusalem and to the cities of Iuda with whom thou hast ben displeased nowe these three score and ten yeres Hereby doe we plainely learne say they that the aungels doo care for our miseries and praye for vs. They be also kepers guides of mē yea they be appointed to waite vpon them For thus we rede in Exodus Exod. ●3 Behold saith the lord I send myn angel before thee to kepe thee in thy way to bring thee to the place which I haue prepared And in the psalmes Psal 91. for he shal geue his angels charge ouer thee to kepe thee in all thy ways They shall beare thee in their hands that thou hurt not thy fote against a stone Dani. 10. The angels be also called presidents of realmes because that vnto them whole contreis be cōmitted Phil. First formost as touchyng those thinges that bee generally obiected or brought against vs of the angels Answer how they do blesse pray for vs howe they are presidentes guides kepers bothe of men and of realmes I haue lieffer bryng the answeres of the ancient fathers than myne own reasons Lactātius in his diuine institutions writeth after this maner Lactanti insti 2. li. ca 17. Neither hath God nede of any name sith that the is alone nor the angels sith they be immortall will suffer themselues to be called goddes whose one and only office and duetye is to bee at the commaundemente and becke of GOD. For we saye that the worlde is gouerned of god as a prouince is by a ruler whose apparitours and officers no man will cal his felowes in the gouernement of the prouince And yet they may do many thinges besydes the commaundemente of the ruler through his ignoraunce whiche is an humayne infirmitye But the ruler gouernour of the whole world who knoweth all thinges and from whose eies nothyng is hidden hath alone with his sonne power ouer all thynges neither is there any thyng in the angelles but a necessitie to obeye Therfore they will haue no honour to be attributed vnto them whose honor is in god But they which are reuolted and fallen awaye from the ministerye and seruice of god do go about to chalenge vnto theym selues the name of god and the worshipping of the gods Saint Augustine Au. lib. 10 de ciuitate dei ca. 12. dothe in all thynges agree with Lactantius What miracles soeuer sayeth this holy father bee so diuinely wrought done eyther by angels or by som other mean that they do cōmend the religion worshipping of the only god in whom only the blessedful lyfe is we must beleue that they are truly done of them or by them whiche do loue vs according to the truth godlinesse God him selfe working in them And when the aungels do heare vs god him selfe doth heare in theym as in his true
couer her shame wyth all and I wyll cause all her myrthe to ceasse And I wyll also destroye her vynes God vvill not haue vs to attribute our felicit● vnto creatures 1. Tim 6. and her fygge trees wherof she saied these are my rewardes that my louers haue geuen me Hereby dooe wee learne how much God is dyspleased yf we do attribute vnto false gods or vnto creatures the felicitye welth and prosperitie of the worlde For as god alone doth geue vs all things aboundantly to enioy them so wil he be acknowleged to be the onely geuer of good thinges He calleth the same fornicatiō which they do cal deuotion God hath ioygned our soules vnto him with the bond of matrimonye to the ende that we shoulde depend of him only as the spouse or wife ought to depende of hir husbande Therfore ●pirituall fornicatiō we do committe fornication when wee do attribute the giftes which haue bene geuen vs of our husband vnto I cannot tell what louers I meane vnto Idoles or dead creatures It is god that geueth vnto vs all thinges necessary meate drinke and clothe and moderate pleasures not that we should bestowe them vpon Idoles but that we should enioye and haue the fruition of them so geue thankes vnto the lord and geuer of thē But the idolaters say these are my rewardes which my louers do geue vnto me The idola●ers of our tyme. The idolaters of our time say these benefites haue we receiued of the liberalitie of god but through the merites of the saints Yea many forgetting the lord al together do attribute al their felicity vnto the dead saints Vnto both the lord doth say I will returne and take awaye my corn c. He doth threaten them with the barennesse of the grounde wyth famyne it is so farre of that they shoulde proue any thing by their obiection Therfore we oughte rather to beleue the prophet speaking of the true felicitie on this maner Blessed is the man that feareth the lorde he shal haue great pleasure in his commaundementes welth and richesse shal bee in his house and his righteousnes remaineth for euer The eyes of all thinges do looke vp and truste in thee thou geuest theim meate in due season thou doest opē thy hand and fillest with thy blessing euerye liuing thynge The lord is nerre vnto them that call vppon him that cal vpon him in truth He shal do the will of them that feare him and he shall heare their crye and saue them The lorde doth preserue them that loue hym The fountaines of true felici●ye and shall destroye all the vngodly These are the fountaynes of true felicitye of the which if any man doth drinke he will attribute all his whole felicitye vnto god and not vnto creatures Albi. Nowe I haue hetherto ben sufficiently instructed that the dead Sayntes ought not to be praied vnto and that we ought not to vse them as mediatours but that we oughte to contente our selues wyth the mediation of Christe who by the worde of god is appointed to be the onlye mediatour betwixt god and menne VVhether th● dead ●mi●●ught to be vvor hip●ed But will ye say that they oughte not to be worshipped My gentill men haue tolde me that they ought in any wise to be worshipped Els great iniury should be done vnto the frendes of god Philalethes This is the greatest honour that we can geue vnto the true and faithfull seruauntes of god if we do geue all honour prayse and laud vnto him whom they didde faithfully preach whose doctrine they did ernestly publish and seal with theyr bloud We maye well as other holy and godly men haue don afore vs assigne and alow three kinds or sortes of honoring of the Saintes Three sortes of honoring of the sainctes The first is geuing of thankes For we ought to geue god thankes that he dyd vouchesafe to shewe exaumples of his mercye and that he dyd signify by them that he will saue menne and that therfore he didde geue sundrye gyftes vnto hys churche and specially teachers Math. 25. These exceadynge greate giftes oughte to bee amplified and the holye menne of God also to bee praysed that they dydde vse faithfully the gyftes of God as we see that our sauior Iesus Christe did praise those that had faithfully employed and bestowed the talentes that were lente them Their doctrine whereby they did commende vnto vs the woorshyppyng and inuocation of one God only ought to be vrged and with diligente earnestnesse to be sette foorth We ought with all thankfulnesse to iudge well of suche woorthy vessels of God to commende them and to defende their good name and estimation against the vngodlye The seconde is the instruction of oure fayth ii as when we see that the deniall of Peter was forgeuen hym and the adultery and murther that Dauid committed was also pardonned hym and the blasphemy persecutiōs and slaughter of the saintes was not imputed vnto Paule and the couetousnesse fraudes and vsurie of Mathew put oute of remembrance we are wonderfully erected and confirmed and do more more beleue that the grace of God dooth far passe all synnes iii. Therof dothe sprynge the thyrde kynde of honouryng which is the imitation or folowynge of the Sainctes fyrst of their faith and afterwardes of all their other vertues whiche euery man oughte according to hys vocation and calling for to folowe Eutrapelus Ye putte me nowe in remembraunce of a thing which I haue redde in a booke of Erasmus whiche is called Enchiridion Enchiridiō●rasmi Thou doest sayeth he honoure the Saintes thou arte gladde to touche their relikes but thou doest contemne the best thing that they haue left that is the example of pure and cleane lyfe The preposterous honouring of the dead There is no worshipping more acceptable vnto Marye than if thou doest folowe her humilitye and lowlinesse There is no religion more propre and acceptable vnto the saints than if thou doest labour to expresse their vertue Wilt thou please both Poter Paule follow the faithe of the one and the charity of the other The true honouring of the Saintes and thou shalt do more thenne if thou shouldest runne tenne times to Rome PHILALETH We haue manyfeste textes of the scriptures wherby we are able to proue the no godly honor ought to be geuen vnto the saints Act. 10. For Cornelius fallyng at Peters fete wold haue honored hym not as a God but as he had learned of the angell as a minister of God But Peter dyd take hym vp and saied Arise for I my selfe am a man And that which Peter didde rebuke in Cornelius the same dyd the angel afterwardes reproue in Iohn the Euangelist Apo. 22. This great Apostle beyng alreadye well stryken in yeares knewe right well that no godly honor ought to be geuen vnto creatures but vnto god onely yet wold he haue worshipped the angell for the excellencie of
mary be in honour let the Father the sonne and the holy ghost be worshipped let no manne worshippe Marye And by and by after Let no man eate of the errour whych is for the holye Marye Although it bee a goodly free yet it is not for meate to be eaten of Although Mary he most beautifull holye and honourable yet she is not appoyncted to be worshipped Lette therfore the error of the deceaued cease For neyther is Marye a God neyther hath she her bodye from heauen but of the conception of manne and woman howbeit disposed according to the promise as the conception and byrth of Isaac was And let no manne offer in her name For he that doth it doth caste awaye his soule Again let no man rayle against her nor blasphem the holy virgin god forfende For she was not coupled vnto man neither after the byrthe nor before the byrth of the Sauiour And in the same booke contra Colyridianos Coly●●● 〈◊〉 the● 〈◊〉 offe●e 〈…〉 the 〈◊〉 Mar. ● Aug●●● ra●●●●●e 〈◊〉 ●mo these are also his wordes In dede the virgine was a virgin and honourable but not geuē vnto vs for to be worshipped but rather she dothe worship hym that toke his substance of her that is to say of hir fleshe Augustin in his booke De vera religione Let not the worshippyng of dead men bee a religion vnto vs for if they haue lyued godly they be not so taken as though they doo seke for such honors but they will haue him to be worshypped of vs by whose illumination they reioyce that we shoulde be partakers of their merite By their merite he doth vnderstand the croune of immortality which thei do obtein through faith in the merites of Christ Therfore they must be honoured through imitation and folowynge and not be worshipped throughe religion Agayne in the same booke we ought sayeth he to beleue that the most bountefull aungels and the most excellent ministers of god will haue vs to worshippe one god with them by whose contemplation they are blessed Neither doo we buylde temples vnto theim For they will not so behonoured of vs because that they knowe that when we are godly we are the temples of the most hye god ● Cor. 6. 2 Cori. 6. Therfore it is wel and rightly written that man was forbidden of the aungell to worship him but one god vnder whom he was his felowe seruaunte In the thyrde booke aga●nst the .ii. Epistels of the Pelagians vnto Bonifacius he writeth also on this maner All the saints that haue ben either from the olde Abell vnto Iohn Baptist or from the Apostels vnto this time and afterwards vnto th end of the worlde are to bee praised in God and not in theym selues For this is the voyce of theym that were afore My soule shal bee praysed in the Lorde And this is the voyce of the latter Thoroughe the grace of God I am that I am And this is the voyce bothe of the fyrst and of the last He that glorieth Cyrillus lette hym glorie in the Lorde Cyrillus in his sixt boke contra lulianum hathe plainely these wordes we neither say that the holy martyrs are gods neither are we wont to worshyp them but rather we doo honour theim with laudes and praises because that they did stoutly fight for the truthe that they myght kepe the sinceritie of faithe Hereby do we learne that in the primitiue church the honour that was geuen vnto martyrs was to praise commende and set foorth their constancie and stedfastnes their strong faithe and pacience in aduersitie and persequution that so God who had for the profite of his chirche endued them with suche excellent vertues might bee glorified and the reste exhorted folowyng their exaumple to fyght manfully in the quarell of the truthe and couragiously to shede their bloode for the sealynge vp of the same Chrysost Likewise Chrysostome in the xlv homilie vpon Mathew writing against thē their that wold seme to honor the martirs with their substance by makyng vnto theim gorgeous tumbes by buildyng vp in the honor of theim costely oratories or houses of prayers dooth say these wordes Neither doo the martirs reioyce when they are honored with the same money for the whiche the poore dooe weepe What is that vertue of righteousnesse to rewarde the deade and to spoyle the lyuyng The same authour doothe plainly teache in an other place that the true honor of the Sainctes is to folowe their faith and other heauenly vertues But what nede we the authoritie of men Math. 4. l. 11.4 sythe that we haue so playne scriptures Thou shalte woorshyp the lorde thy God and hym onely shalt thou serue saith our sauior Iesus Christ wherupon I may make this argument Who soeuer is neyther oure Lorde nor our God to hym ought we in no wise to geue godly honor nor yet to woorshyp hym But neither the angels nor the dead Saintes are our Lordes and gods but are ministers of our Lorde god and vnder hym our felowe seruantes To them therfore ought we in no wise to geue godly honor nor yet to worshyppe them Neyther do we honoure and worship Christ Christ is ●ot vvor●hipped be cause he is ●an but be cause he is ●●ue and ●aturall ●nd Obie 29 because that he is holy and righteous or because that he is welbeloued of god but because that he is true and naturall God of one substance with the father the holy ghoste Albion They saye that they do honour and worshyp god as well as ye doo and that they do not honour and worshyppe the Saintes or aungels as goddes but as the trends of god Again they do not worshippe the gods of the gentiles whiche were eyther diuels or wicked men Philalethes Answer This their aunswere is not worth a ryshe For Christ doth not say Thou shalt not worship vnclene spirits or wicked mē But thou shalt honor the lorde thy god and him onely shalte thou worshyppe Eutrapelus I doo nowe remēber a thīg which I haue read in saint Augustine where he dothe dispute why the Romaynes vvorthye history sithe that they did worship the gods of all nations could neuer abyde to worshyppe the LORDE God of Israell And he dothe aleadge the reasonne whyche Socrates dothe brynge in also that in relygion it is required that euery God be worshipped according to his owne will Socrates sayng touching the vvorshipping of god and not according to the wil and pleasure of the worshippers But false gods as filthye fornicatours do require no such thynge of their worshippers that they shoulde be worshipped alone Sith then that the true lyuing god the god of Israell wyll be worshipped alone it did come to passe that the Romaines would in no wise receaue and alowe his religion For they could not abide that for one onely gods sake all the other gods shoulde be reiected and put doune Albion Obie 30 I will go no farther in this
may wtout any scrupulositie of cōscīece be present at the sacrifices of the gentiles and sitte with them at their feasts and banketts which they doo keepe in the honor of their idols For the mynd beyng restored vnto it selfe doth honor and worship the true liuing God alone therfore it contemneth ydoles and can not sithe it is purified by faithe be polluted or defiled with those thinges that be offered vnto theim Paule● auns●vere to ●heir reasons Vnto all those Paule maketh this answere Although thou doest beleue that there is but one God and doest therefore vnderstande that bothe the idoles the worshypping of theim and the sacrifices offered vnto them are but mere vanitie yet all men doo not see so muche neyther doo they comme to the sacrifices with the same conscience He that is weake and hath not yet cleane put away his olde inueterate errour whiche he hadde sucked of his forefathers dooth with a conscience sitte at suche meates and accordyng to his olde superstition whiche he hath no fully shaken of doth feare and dreade those goddes specially when he seeth thee whome he taketh to be of a founde iudgement to sytte at such prophane meates For he doeth suspecte that thou dost eate with none other conscience than he dooth and so he is not smally offended with thy bolde exaumple Bothe Ambrose Theophilactus and also Erasmus doo allowe this exposition Nowe if ye wille applie this to our purpose ye shall fynde nothyng that doothe more strongly impugne the images For although he whyche is of stronge faythe knoweth the image to bee nothynge yet another whyche hathe a weaker faythe wylle not so iudge But as long as he shall se them thus to stande in the Chyrches He wylle reasonne thus wyth hym selfe Idolatrye is not so damnable as the preachers doo say it is sythe that they are yet kept in the chyrches and are tollerated or borne withall of some lerned menne so they that frome their cradell haue bene nouseled in superstition and haue bene persuaded that there is some holy●●sse in the ymages are kept still in errour can neuer come to a perfect pure faith Images ought to be pardoun in all churches Therfore it is a most wyse poynte to pull doune all ymages sythe that it is against all reason that a thyng of naught shoulde stande in the house of God in the place of prayer and therby had in reuerence But the Apostell doth briefely and shortly conclude or knit vp the whole disputation saieng Therfore wel beloued flye from idolatry Albion Obie 35 Yet it seemeth good vnto me that we shold haue the ymage of Christ being crucifyed with the images of his principall Apostelles and speciallye of the blessed virgin Mary the mother of our sauiour Iesu Christe for to put put vs in mynde of the passion of Christe and of the excellent vertues of his faithfull seruantes The dulne● of men in ●●ings tha●●erta●●e t●●ut saluatio● Eutrapelus I fynde nowe by experience that the same is moste true whiche our brother Philalethes doth manye tymes repete in his sermons that is how that a good thynge hathe neede to be repeted and spoken of many tymes and often elles it will not bee remembred Ye hearde a little beefore that the meanes appoynted of god for to put vs in mynd of our Sauiour Iesu Christe and of the saluation purchased by him are the preachyng of the gospell and the ryghte and due ministration of the sacramentes according to the institution and ordeināce of the eternall wisedome of God that we are assured by goddes promises that the holy ghoste doth with these meanes worke in the hearts of the elect and chosen but as for ymages they be expressely forbidden in gods booke it is so farre of that they should be appoincted for to be meanes wherby the holy ghost shold plante faithe in our heartes or styrre vp our myndes to the knowledge of god to the imitation of his sayntes And because aboue al other ye would haue the ymage of Christe The ymage of ●he●● of all other is most perillous I lette you to vnderstande brother Albion that of all other the ymage of Chryste is most perillous For the holyer the person is whyche is represented by the ymage ye shal finde the greater peryll of ydolatrye to bee in it Therfore it was not without a iuste cause that those godlye Emperours Valens and Theodosius dydde sette forth this godlye decree Sithe that this is our chiefest care aboue all thinges to mayntaine the religion of the high god we grante to no man Pertus Crinitus li. 9 de hone●ta di●ciplina ca. 9. to graue or paint the ymage of our sauiour Christe neyther to paynte it with colours nor to graue it in sones or in any other matter ‡ But vvhere soeuer it is found vve do bid ●t to be taken avvay beyng determined to punishe greuouslye those that will attempte anye thing contrarye to our decrees Wherin yf any man perchance dothe requyre an authour lette him reade the edictes and decrees of Emperours which haue ben gathered by these great learned mē Tribunianus Basilides Theophilus Dioscorus and other and most chieflye by the commaundement of Iustinianus the Emperor Hereby do we learn that it perteyneth to the mainteynaunce of true religion to put ●oune all ymages yea the ymage of oure Sauioure Iesu Christe VVhat vvee do learn by the decree of those e●●perours because that in it there is moste peryll of idolatry And agayne that V●lens and Theodosius did not this alone but many other Emperours whose decrees and edictes by the commandemēt of Iustinianus haue bene collected and gathered together by these greate learned men afore rehersed Philalethes Vnto these worthy Emperors wil I ioyne a most godlye auncient bishoppe whose greeke Epistle beyng sent to Iohn bisshop of Hierusalem Hierome did translate into latine his name is Epiphanius The wordes of the epistle are these Epiphanius ●ishop of ●alamena ● 1● Cypius The ministration of the supper of the Lord vvas called collecta most chefly because ●hat the gathe●●●ges vvere made for the ●o●c● When we were goyng together to the holy place which is called Bethel there to celebrate the communion wyth thee according to the Ecclesiasticall maner and was come to a ferm place called Anablatha and did see there passynge by a light burnyng and did aske what the place was and had learned that it was a churche and had gon for to pray there I founde as it were a vaile died or painted and hauing the ymage as it were of Christ or of som saint For I do not wel remember whose ymage it was Therfore when I dyd see that the ymage of man did hange in the churche contrary to the scriptures I rente it and did rather geue councel to the wardens of the place that they should wynd some poore dead body in it And a lyttell after Bid I beeseeche thee the elders of