Selected quad for the lemma: honour_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
honour_n	david_n	king_n	saul_n	1,226	5	9.8585	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A16173	The second part of the reformation of a Catholike deformed by Master W. Perkins	Bishop, William, 1554?-1624.	1607 (1607)	STC 3097; ESTC S1509	252,809	248

who delighteth not to cauill vpon wordes vnderstanding our meaning to be very farre off from attributing any iote of Gods honour vnto any Saint or any other thing whatsoeuer cannot be justly offended with our tearmes of religious worshippe giuen to Saintes when as he is before-hand giuen to vnderstand that we take religious to signifie not that which is proper to God but those religious gifts which be in godly men Hence also it followeth most perspicuously what intollerable wrong they doe vs that call vs Idolaters or say that we robbe God of his honour and giue it vnto Saintes For vve say and repeate it a thousand times ouer and ouer and declare it as plainely as can be that it is the most haynous crime in the vvorld to giue any such soueraigne honour as is due to God only vnto eyther Angels or Saintes to vvit to esteeme them to be infinitly mighty vvise or good or to bee the Creatours or supreame Gouernours of heauen and earth or briefly to be the authors of any supernaturall or naturall excellency or perfection These and such like pointes of Diuine honour we ascribe not to any creature but say that the Saintes are Gods creatures and seruants and doe receiue all that they eyther be or haue or Gods liberallity yet we hold it not to derogate any whit from the due honour we owe vnto God to yeeld such honour and worship vnto his Saints and seruants as he hath made them worthy of Nay rather we doe not a litle honour God himselfe when we worship Godly men for his diuine gifts bestowed vpon them and vvhen vvee thinke that because they haue faithfully serued him on earth they are nowe in heauen in high fauour with him and can sooner obtaine any reasonable suite of him then other mortall men vvho are subject to many infirmities Neyther doe wee diminish any thing at all Christ our Sauiours mediation by making the Saintes our intercessours For as shall bee hereafter declared at large we attribute no point of Christes mediation to them but only range and place the Saints intercession with the prayers of other good men liuing on earth and vvith our owne although in a different degree of perfection their 's being farre better then ours yet all are made in Christes name and are effectuall through the merits of his Passion But one may here object howe then doe Catholikes affirme and say that the Saints are their hope and refuge and howe can they desire them To haue mercy vpon them and to helpe them vvhich seeme to be thinges proper to God alone and to Christ our redeemer I answere first that these speeches in good sence haue beene vsed by most auncient learned and circumspect Authours and that by imitation of the holie Scriptures For holy Iob saith Haue mercy on me haue mercy on me Iob 19. 1. Thess 2. vers 18. Cap. 15. vers 30. 1. Cap. 9. vers 19. at least you my friendes And Saint Paul calleth the Thessalonians His hope his joy and crowne of glory and desireth the Romans to helpe him in their prayers and saith to the Corinthians that he became all thinges to all men that he might saue all vvith diuers such like So that no discreet man ought to condemne such speeches to the Saints if they bee vttered vvith a good meaning to vvit that they taking compassion of our frailty and misery doe by their gratious intercession helpe to procure our pardon and to obtayne at Gods bounteous handes through the merit of Christes passion all such heauenly graces as vve stand neede of Albeit as I haue sayed such tearmes haue been very vvell vsed in all antiquity yet in these our captious dayes I could vvish that Catholikes vvould vse them very sparingly for feare of scandalizing the poore deceaued Protestants Obserue lastly that by the outward manner and externall shewe of worshippe it cannot be sufficiently discerned whether it be Diuine Religious or Ciuill for as we kneele to God so doe we also on our knee honour the King 1. Reg. 24. vers 10. and his Councell As Dauid did adore King Saul prostrate on the earth But the difference consisteth chiefly in the inward conceite and disposition of the minde and so whether we kneele or no if we prostrate our harts before God inclining it vnto him as to the Authour of all thinges infinitly perfect we doe him Godly honour So if we kneele to any Saints or before any picture of a Saint in honour of the Saint acknowledging in our harts the Saint to be a very holy creature indued with many great graces of God and dearely beloued of him we doe but duly worshippe the Saint as kneeling to the King and in our harts confessing him to be the supreame Gouernour vnder God of the temporall state of his Kingdome vve doe but our duties vnto our King To conclude it is not the outward fashion of worshippe that maketh it proper to God or Man when as kneeling to one may be also in dirision of him as when Pilates souldiers kneeled to Christ but the inward conceite and inclination of the judgement and hart And therefore they are very simple that reprehend Catholikes of Idolatry for kneeling before pictures when as they kneele not to the picture it selfe no more then Protestants kneele vnto that part of their seate or to the wall that is before them but they doe kneele to God as to their soueraigne Lord and to the Saint as to an holy personage whose prayer to God for them they humbly request Nowe to the maine point in controuersie M. PER. denyeth That any ciuill worshippe in bending of the knee or prostrating of the body is to be giuen to either Saints or Angels and much lesse any religious worshippe as namely inuocation signified by any bodily adoration for that saith he is the honour of God himselfe by what name soeuer you call it And this is all he saith for ought I can see touching the worshipping of Saints We on the other side say that vve may both bend the knee and prostrate the body to any Angell or Saint in heauen and with a religious inclination and obeysance of our harts worshippe them for their excellent supernaturall gifts and that this kinde of worshippe is much inferior vnto the honour proper to God yea that it is infinitly lesse then that as hath beene already declared M. PER. hath one only shadowe of a reason why we must not yeeld any ciuill worship vnto the Saints Because saith he they be absent from vs and we vse not to worshippe men that be absent ergo Which is most easily confuted and that two wayes First if we say as vve vvill proue afterward that though they be farre distant from vs in place yet they see and knowe all the honour that vve present to them and so are they morally present and as so present may be vvorshipped Secondly that we may truly honor them who are absent corporally by lifting vp our