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A86526 The faithful covenanter. A sermon preached at the lecture in Dedham in Essex. By that excellent servant of Iesus Christ, in the work of the Gospel, Mr. Tho. Hooker, late of Chelmsford; now in New England. Very usefull in these times of covenanting with God. Hooker, Thomas, 1586-1647. 1644 (1644) Wing H2648; Thomason E81_18; ESTC R15313 27,284 46

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is his wrath that they execute The wicked of the world are but the Lords instruments the Sword is thine Lord though thou usest them as the hand to strike with The Lord commanded destruction to come upon them Doct. 1. Hence observe God is the Author of all those punishments and judgements that ever come upon a nation or people family or person It is his will that is the worker He is the bringer of all sorrows troubles and judgements upon any It was not the Babylonians that overthrew them It was not Nebuchadnezzar it was the fierce anger of the Lord that did it you know what God himselfe sayes Is there any evill in the citie and I have not done it Amos 3.6 And he hisse for an enemy Isa 4 5.7 all places are at his command Isa 7.18 he commands deliverance for them that serve and obey him as it is in the Psalm and plagues and destruction for them that disobey him and rebell against him To make this then our own brethren by application briefly for I meane to fasten upon nothing in this verse but to passe on to the other wherein is contained the maine point which I intend to stand upon as thinking it in my thoughts most fit for this congregation If this be so then here is a cooling card for the wicked Vse All you that heare this word this day whose consciences accuse you that you are enemies to God and goodnesse heare and feare and tremble for ever If God bring judgements who shall feele them and finde them surely his enemies be them that shall feele them Psal 10 16. Psal 10.16 It is the collection that the Psalmist makes The Lord is King for ever and what then the heathen are destroyed sayes he If all judgements be at his command then his enemies shall be sure to feele them You that have wicked husbands or wives feare every night when you goe to bed lest the judgement of the Lord should come upon them yet ere morning and cut them off and send them to destruction Vse And you that are carelesse of your wayes and goe on in your wickednesse understand the Lord hath vengeance for you He hath rods enough they are not all burnt he will bring them our against you Psal 68.21 and will wound the hairie scalpe of him that goeth on in his sins Marke what the Apostle saies 1 Pet ● 18 1 Pet. 4.18 If the righteous scarcely be saved where shall the ungodly and the sinner appeare If the righteous brethren hardly get to heaven but loses an arme an other a right eye as it were and with many prayers and sighes and graplings with God and through many temptations hardly come to heaven in the end and a poore humble soule begge for power against his corruptions as if he would pluck mercy from the Lord by strong hand and yet scarcely subdue sinne and obtaine salvation what then will become of a company that are enemies to God and godlines a company of unrighteous men where shall they appeare The day will come when they that stand against the gracious voyce of the Almightie now shall heare the thundering voyce of the Almightie Luk. 23.30 and shall call and cry to the mountaines and hills to fall upon them and cover them Rev. 6.16 that they may be hid from the presence of the Judge Secondly observe that the Text sayes What means the fierce anger of the Lord against this nation Exod. 19 5. Tit. 2.14 1 Pet. 2 9. Psal 60 5. and 108.6 and 127.2 Rom. 3.2 What nation why the nation of the Jews Gods owne people his * peculiar his first borne Exod. 4.22 his beloved Cant. 1.14 15. and 5.1 2. to whom the oracles of God were committed to whom the Prophets came in his name That nation that had all means of good that had all mercies priviledges and all encouragements the Lord shewed his fierce wrath to them Learne Doct. 2. No outward priviledges in the world will free any nation under heaven from the judgements of the Lord if they sinne against him and be stubborn and rebellious If any people might have been exempted and freed surely the Jews might They might have said Why Lord wilt thou plague us what wilt thou destroy us why we are thy people we have thy sacrifices and thy Prophets and thy Temple is amongst us That is all one what means the fierce anger of the Lord against this nation sayes the Text. Be the man what he will the means never so excellent and the priviledges never so great if he sin he shall be sure to be plagued Ier. 7.12 Brethren you may see there that when the Prophet threatned the judgements of the Lord against them Jerusalem began to brag of her priviledges and the mercies of God which he had bestowed on them Go to Shiloh sayes the Lord to them the place where I set my name at first and see what I did to it for the wickednesse of my people Israel The case is cleare and plaine no priviledges though the word of God and his ordinances and the meanes of grace be there will keepe away judgements If people sin God will proceed in wrath against them Amos 3.2 You only have I knowne sayes the Lord of all the families of the earth what then therefore will I cocker and dandle you no but therefore will I visit you for all your iniquities If this be so brethren Vse this teaches us this instruction Not to depend upon our priviledges not to boast of them and rest in them and go away and say What the Spaniards come into England what the enemy overcome England We have the Gospel the meanes of Grace no nation under heaven so many in it that feare the Lord as our nation hath O trust not tolying vanities Jonas 2.8 saying The Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord Jer. 7.4 as the Jews did when the Babylonian● came what good did their Temple doe them your outward profession will be your bane if you trust to it Rom. 2.9 when time of trouble come Tribulation and anguish shall be upon every soul that sins upon the Iew first marke that brethren The highest in preferment the first in punishment you that have enjoyed great meanes the Lord will proceed more heavily against you then against others when he begins to execute his wrath once To have the name of outward profession is nothing it will leave us in the dust if we trust to it Priviledges are like to paper walles if a man reare up a paper wall against Cannon shot will that defend him brethren They are good in their place and kinde but if we put our confidence in them as if they should keepe us out of trouble it is like as if a man should put on a cut Sattin suit or coat of silke to goe in the warres withall will that preserve him against the Cannons and the
ware be in the shop there is as bad in the Warehouse sure if not worse This we call the inward and outward Covenant marke this you that thinke to smooth it over and carry it away with faire lookes and speake well and doe well outwardly but have durty corners within the heart is stubborne and rebellious against God proud stout malicious covetous These are in the outward Covenant as those whom the Lord complaines of Isa 1.2 Isa 1.2 Heare O Heavens and give eare O Earth for the Lord hath spoken I have nourished and brought up ch●ldren and they have rebelled against me vers 3. The Oxe knoweth his owner and the Asse his Masters crib but Israel doth not know my people doth not consider The wicked are in Covenant with the Lord outwardly but not inwardly the heart closes not with God they are not humble The Iewes were Gods people in outward Covenant but were disobedient and stubborne against the Lord. Thirdly there must be an answering the means of Grace with the measure of our uprightnesse and obedience He that hath received more must returne more to God brethren He that hath received more helps from the Almightie must returne more obedience you know how Farmes and Leases goe brethren he that hath a Lease of an hundred pound a yeere must not goe and pay but fiftie pound And he that hath one of fiftie pound goe and pay but twenty pound he that hath one of twenty pound goe and pay but tenne pound the Land-lord will not be put off so for his rent answerable to the Lease so must the rent be you that live in this Congregation sit at a high rate brethren your Leases are at an hundred pound a yeere looke that you pay God his full rent The people that are in a Towne that have a good honest Minister and carefull and painefull but he hath not those abilities that another hath expresse not that diligent power evidence of the Spirit in his Ministery the people that are in such a place sit at a good rate but they that have a faithfull eminent powerfull Minister they sit at marvellous high rents To pray little and doe little in good duties the Lord will not take this of a Dedham Christian that is for those that have small encouragements and a Sermon now and then and that but weake neither and creepe out once in a moneth to a Sermon there is a fiftie pound rent and a ten pound rent for such to pay but you sit at an hundred pound rent keepe touch brethren come off come off currantly Doe you thinke the Lord will lend his mercies for nothing No he prizes the life libertie and paines of his servants and their prayers at an exceeding high rate an hundred pound for a Prayer and an hundred thousand for an Instruction and doe you thinke with a prayer now and then and with a sigh and a wish that you could walke with the Lord to poppe off the Lord so No you sit at heavy rents and the Lord will call for accounts accordingly at the day of reckoning brethren this will breake some of your necks if it breake not your hearts now by repentance for your being behinde hand with the Lord in his rent and make you walke with the Lord better and keepe touch with him for the time to come But what is the reason that the Lord will call his Lawes and Commandements Covenants Reason The reason is this for I would have nothing untouched that you may be wise and understanding Christians because of the likenesse betweene and the resemblance of a Covenant that is made betweene two parties and the Law which is the Covenant which is given us of the Lord In a Covenant first there must be conditions and Articles of agreement betweene the parties offered and consented unto and secondly a binding one another to the performance thereof by Bond perhaps a paire of Indentures are drawne betweene them wherein is declared that they mutually agree he to make good the land and to pay thus much rent the other to let it him thus and thus It is just so here Marke the agreement betweene us and the Lord Deut. 28. Levit. 26. he propounds the Law and saith That if we will keepe the Law he will blesse us abundantly in all things house and land wife children at home and abroad in every thing we put our hand unto Then the people they agree and say Content Lord what ever thou saist we will doe Deut. 5.29 the Law thou hast given us we will keepe it it is holy just and good But then for the binding of one another you will say How shall we know God will performe his part and how shall the Lord know that we will performe our part to him what Bond is there for it The world is naught and one cannot tell who to trust and therefore God must binde us brethren to keepe our Covenant and we are not to think much that he should And we have Bond of him too because of our unbeliefe now the Bond is a corporall Oath passed from the one to the other The Lord takes a corporall Oath that if we will keepe his Commandements he will not be God if he blesse us not And so brethren you sweare too again on the other side to the Lord and did when you were baptized every one of you that you would be his people and obey his Lawes and Commandements The Lords people take a corporall Oath and a Curse upon themselves if they doe not keepe Covenant with the Lord. This belongs to us at this day for we entred into a Curse and desired that all the plagues and curses written in the Booke of God might light upon us if we keepe not the Commandements of the Lord Deut. 29.10 When the Lord had propounded the Covenant marke how he deales with the people Deut. 29.10 You stand this day all of you before the Lord your God your Captaines of your Tribes your Elders and your Officers with all the men of Israel vers 11. Your little ones your wives and the stranger that is in thy Campe from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water vers 12. Deut. 29.12 That thou shouldest enter into Covenant with the Lord thy God and into his Oath marke that brethren the Oath of the Lord which the Lord thy God maketh with thee this day marke that with us from Abraham to this day the Oath is taken in our Baptisme we take the Oath of Allegiance as it were in this kinde All you that have given your names to the Lord Jesus and have received grace from him you all stand here this day before the Lord and bring your childrē before the Lord in the day of a Fast else woe be to you that we may renew our Covenant with him We are to enter into his Oath the Oath of the Covenant betweene the Lord and us that the Lord
no more Though thou loose this weeke that thou maist gather it up the next weeke worke so much the more and the harder The Lord be mercifull to us where are those honest men to be found brethren that desire to doe thus Me thinke I heare you in your souls now saying good Lord what will become of our towne good Lord what will become of our neighbours they talke of honesty and this is honesty but alas their life agrees not to it You complaine of trading in the world almost no trust to be put in any every man almost is turned banckrupt I am sure brethren it is true in Religion He that was a forward Christian a while agoe is a drunkard now or a gamester now And he that was a forward Professour and would goe to a Sermon foure or five mile in a morning and come home againe and to worke hard to get up the time againe But now God hath given him a pretty estate in this world he is turned a very muck-worme become covetous or a loose one Though I doe not know you brethren I am sure brethren there are a number such abroad in this land and I doubt not but you can point at such here in this congregation and say that is such a man and that is such a man he still seeks to hold in with his Minister and would faine be counted a Professour but O there is no life nor heart nor power of godlinesse in him he is grown starke cold since I knew him the world hath a part of his heart his pleasure another his profit another idlenesse and ease another he may even lay the key under the threshold for any found Religion and true grace indeed he is quite downe the winde But you will say haply that I thinke too hardly of you I know you not I hope brethren there are many of you godly the Lord increase your number and his graces that are in you but I am sure if you come to the ballance you shall finde few that are sound and godly Christians indeed that will hold weight Let us search a little Why you will say I hope we are honest men the most of us we pay every man his due It is well you doe so but I will bring in a bill now brethren which if you cannot prove to be cancelled woe be to you This Doctrin casts out aboundance in all places Vse at this doore and at that doore and packs them out and will leave poore thin congregations We will scan the case a little brethren First hence it is cleare that the poore ignorant creature is gone he is quite blown up if he so continue he knows nothing in this kinde he knows not how to count twentie shillings how shall he satisfie a debt of twentie pound that is to say brethren they know not God not understand the prayers that they make they say the Lords Prayer Lords Prayer and it is good to be used in its time but doe you please God in so doing when you understand not what you say one sayes Hallowed be thy Name when he knows not what Gods name is and what it is to hallow it Another sayes Thy Kingdome come when he knows not what it is to have his kingdome come You cannot count your money yet you cannot discerne a six pence from a groat that is to say brethren you know not what it is to pray and to heare the word you know not what it is to take the Name of God reverently into your mouthes And so some will call God Father but they know not how he is their Father nor how they come to be his children These are gone they are carnall they have not pay therefore certainly cannot pay the Lord his due 2. There is another generation worse then these and those are profane ones that set themselves professedly to run to rerages with the Lord scorne all means God hath appointed to bring in his debts by they will be drunke sweare profane the Sabbath scoffe at such as refraine their foot from evill Isa 59.15 Tell them God requires other things of them that they keep not touch with him and he expects other things at their hands and that they run in rerages with the Lord for his rent and that he will arrest them and confound them if they doe not pay him his rent for the time to come They say they purpose no other payment then he hath already at their hands but let God get his own as he can they will take their own course still Is there any such here brethren There are too many such in the world and I feare too some among you though you pretend faire and say not so openly yet you say so by your deeds brethren for you will have this privy haunt and that secret evill way take this and that wicked course you resolve of it and will doe it let the Lord get his own if he can So he will I warrant you Looke to it you that think to brave it with the Lord when you are among your cups and companions and to make your part good with him to out-brave all judgements and who shall arrest you the Lord will plucke the cup out of thy hands and arrest thee with death and a thousand devils shall lay hold on thee and drag thee to hell to torment thee for ever God will have his rent one way or other Thinke of it you that set your mouthes against heaven and what hath the Minister to doe to speake against you you will out face God and Minister and Gospell and all and thinke to goe away scot-free Looke to it God will get his own he will have it of thee as he had it out of Iulian the Apostate I will all edge but one place to you for this purpose and that is Deut. 29.18 the Text sayes Deut. 29.18 That if there be any root of bitternesse among them vers 19. Vers 19. That when he heareth the curse of the Lord shall yet blesse himselfe in his heart saying he shall escape and doe well enough for all that The Text sayes Vers 20. That the wrath of the Lord shall smoake against that man and he shall blot out his name from under heaven Oh that this verse were imprinted upon the palme of the hand of every drunkard and every scoffer and profane one that walks after the stubbornnesse of his own heart and addes drunkennesse to thirst and yet you thinke to goe away with it and so you may for a time and these words breake no bones and all this winde shakes no corne with you you hope to goe to heaven as well as the best you will drinke and whore and yet it shall go well with you in the end and you are proud and stout and stubborn and stiffe-necked against the Lord and the voyce of his word and yet you blesse your selves and promise to your selves peace Marke what
the God of Heaven saith Vers 20. The anger of the Lord shall smoke against that man and all the curses that are written in this Booke shall lie upon him and the Lord shall blot out his name from under Heaven vers 21. Vers 21. And the Lord shall separate him unto evill out of all the Tribes of Israel All the vengeance of the Almighty that ever was made knowne shall light upon the head and heart of that drunkard and that contemner of God and the word of his Grace He will separate you from the Tribes of Israel You thinke to run away from your Countrey and to flie from his Judgements as some Bankerupts do escape from men to run to Amsterdam and other places No the Lord will separate that man from all the Tribes of Israel where ever he be in France Germany Amsterdam or where ever he will separate him and set the damned spirits on the backe of him and say Take hold of that man and execute vengeance on him Brethren you may think I deale something harshly with you but I deale for the best for you Is it not better to heare of this now in time then hereafter when the Lord hath arrested you and you are locked up in close prison for ever you should thinke Oh if such a denunciation had beene told me if such an exhortation had beene wrought upon me if such a man had pressed hard upon my conscience with such and such things I had never come here Consider this God will have it out of you as he had it out of Iulian the Apostate that had blasphemed Christ before in the field an arrow came from God and smote him that he died and then he said Thou hast overcome me O thou Galilean You that are mates in this kinde goe home to your fellow drunkards and to your fellow whoremasters and scoffers and those that side with you against God and goodnesse and such as are godly and tell them God will have his debt of them Know it now to your humiliation and amendment lest you know it to your cost when there will be no prevailing with the Lord for mercy The Lord perswade your hearts that there is no way to escape but by coming in and acknowledging your debt and craving pardon though you cannot pay Thirdly the close hearted Hypocrite Vse 3. he comes here to be discarded he thinkes his penny good silver the world esteems of him as a sincere honest upright hearted man Tell him that he keeps not Covenant with the Lord he takes it in great indignation If any be here as this Age begetteth a world of close hypocrites understand and know if you keep back some of the payment have a secret haunt doe as Ananias and Saphira did Acts 5.2 that laid downe a part of the price for which the possession was sold and said Vers 8. It was all Is here all saith Peter to them Yes all saith he so when the Lord saith to you Dost thou pray Yes Lord And dost hate all sinne Yes Lord say you Why dost lye to the Almighty Vers 3. Doe you not know a company of secret haunts and back-dores that you have to this lust and that lust and many secret corruptions you have and yet come into the presence of the Lord as if you were upright with the Lord and there were no such matter O ye hypocrites why hath Satan filled your hearts to lye to the Lord Vers 3. Doe you not know what Elisha said to Gehazi 2 King 5.20.21 when he ran after Naaman for a bribe vers 25. Where hast thou been Gehazi Thy servant hath been no where Vers 25. he thought to wash it away and make it over so with a lye vers 26. Vers 26. Went not mine heart with thee saith Elisha when thou rannest after Naaman for a bribe If any close hypocrite be in the Congregation let him know the Lord will finde him out and will say to him Whither went thy heart all this while Where hast beene dodging Was not my heart with thee vers 26. when thou wentest after such a secret haunt and such a close lust O but you will say it is no such matter you desire to be upright I say be so brethren The Lord goes with thee wither so ever thou goest and he sees all thy Dalilahs and Herodiasses of pride and selfe-love he seeth how thou seekest to him in the pride of thy heart and how thou professest to get a name and to bold in with others These are base abominations cursed hypocrisie this is false-heartednesse before God and shall be plagued by God at the day of account There is not an honest woman that hath but one other man besides her husband He is not an honest man that will not pay one bond of tenne or many A penny is due as well as a pound My hand is on your heart brethren for I feare many of you have some one back-dore which you meane to keepe and you will be proud or covetous a little or uncleane onely and all the rest of that Covenant ye are content to keepe Is this honest to scrape out what you please and leave what you please still there is no honestie in this brethren But you will say Who can lay any thing to my charge I say thou art a Covenant-breaker and the Lord could never get his owne of thee yet Well yet thou wilt put it off as Saul did when Samuel came to meet him as he returned from slaying the Amalekites 1 Sam. 15.13 Come thou blessed of the Lord. But what said Samuel to him Vers 14. Ah saies he vers 14. What meanes the bleating of the sheepe and the lowing of the Oxen So you say you make conscience of all the Commandements of the Lord But what meane these secret corners and haunts I mean those which conscience and God heare of not what I heare of for I know nothing but by them What meane all these secret conveyances that you have to make away and hide your lusts with that you may live in them and not be knowne so to doe What meanes your drunkennesse in a corner your adultery in a corner your hypocrisie and covetousnesse lukewarmenesse and coldnesse carelesnesse and earthly mindednesse Yet men will not be out-faced they will beare a man downe still that it is so Then I have no other way but this with you looke what a man doth by a debtor that saith the debt is paid and will face him downe that it is so yet the Booke is not crossed What will this Creditor do now Why then to your Bookes he goes and cals in the servant that takes in the reckonings and saith Doe you remember it No saith the servant you gave me good words divers times when I called on you for it but no money was paid why then I never had it So brethren you say that you are holy we will call
for the Bookes and for Conscience Gods Auditor and the keeper of his accounts and aske that Whether you make conscience of private prayer and humbling your soul in secret Whether you make conscience of your stubbornesse to your husband of your peevishnesse and untowardnesse Whether you be a Covenant-keeper and whether you did ever performe that God hath required of you he hath required much of you that you should pray read be sober humble neeke dutifull to your husband But you have been right froward undutifull way-ward why did you pay this debt to the Lord then The conscience will say No Lord I urged him to it and said Now get alone * Isa 26.16 and powre out a prayer to the Lord now goe and read and meditate on the word of God and I told him Lord when he began to be so eager of the world now you will be covetous and worldly but he would not heare me he promised me Lord he would leave it and would doe so no more and he would take up this duty and that duty and put me off this time and another time but he never did it Then you see the case cleere for you never kept day you have a shew of godlinesse 2 Tim. 3.5 but where is the power of it The power is to subdue inward lusts secret corruptions base thoughts that rise in the minde This is not to be found in the most therefore they are but Hypocrites and false hearted At last when the case is so cleare by the Booke of the servant this bad debttor doth confesse it and saith It was a hard time and it was but little if you had had it I thought it could doe you no great good I hoped you would have borrowed it if you had had any great need of it So many a crused hypocrite confesses the conversation is good and the course is holy which he should take and which God requires of him but I feared the losse of my libertie of my ease or my honor and credite if I had done it I feared I should have suffered for it and it was but this I hope it was not such a matter Is this honestie when God and the Gospel call for truth and for sinceritie you put off and say This is no great matte you hope there are worse matters then so in the world Thou art no upright God will have the utmost farthing Mat. 5.26 there is truth in a penny He that will not suffer in one kinde I will never beleeve he will suffer in another But you will say What if a man be covetous he hurts none it is his owne that he holds so fast he is but close fisted a little I hope this is not such a matter This is a great sinne brethren in such a place as this is what not keepe touch here that mans sinne that lives under the Gospel is the greatest sin of all of more weight then the sinnes of any besides and therefore looke to it brethren If a man forfeit a Bond of twenty pound or forty pound perhaps he may recover it but if of forty thousand pound we say it will crush the greatest Merchant in the Land and breake his back An hypocrite a false-hearted one in the place where the Gospel is it is a heinous foule sinne it will sinke him deepe A drunkard where the Gospel is not and an adulterer where the Gospel is not shall goe to hell they shall all perish without repentance But he that lives under the means ye is covetous loose proud vaine oppressing and griping of his poore brethren worldly or the like that Bond will break thy backe it is an hundred thousand pound Bond. Take heede brethren a man that runs in arerages with the Lord here it will be heavy for him Mat. 11.23 And thou Capernaum which wert lifted up to heaven shalt be cast downe to hell Some live at great rents A Dedham man God will not have him have a stomacke onely to a good duty and now and then to pray or to reade or conferre but he requires great debts of him A Dedham drunkard or hypocrite carelesse carnall Gospeller or covetous one the devils will rejoyce for him when he comes to hell they will make Bonefires and make it holiday for him stand upon their tiptoes to look on him and say What are you come hither after all Prayers and Sermons and Sacraments and Admonitions and so many labors of Gods servants that have worne out their lives to keepe you from hence This Bond will breake your backe brethren an hundred thousand millions worth of exhortations you have had and you owe the Lord for them all stil you have paid him nothing for them yet you are not one whit the better for them What shall become of you the Lord will set a thousand devils to torment you when you drop into the pit specially ancient men woe to your soules if once God lay hold of you If a man that is in debt for I know not how many Bonds be arrested but upon one it will cast him into prison but then if after that comes another and another in upon him it will goe very hard with him He plaid fast and loose and faire and farre off all this while but now one hath clapt a Writ upon his backe comes another and arrests him for an hundred pound at such a mans suite and another arrests him for an hundred pound at such a mans suite O thinke of this your reckonings will be fearfull when God casts you on your sicke bed and death comes to fetch away your soules and you are going to the chaines of darknesse then there will come in one Bond after another upon you one inditement after another against you Item for the sinnes of your youth your disobedience and stubbornesse to Parents and Governours when a childe Item for following your profits and pleasures and minding nothing else when you were a young man Item for your worldlinesse since you were an old man One Bond after another the Lord will lay upon you You would thinke such a man that hath so many Bonds come upon him in a hard case quite undone and that there is no recovery for him out of prison but there he must lie till some part of him rot off perhaps and till he die in the Jayle O how you would pitie such a mans case and how you would be grieved for him But O brethren you that are husbands or wives or parents when you see your children or your husbands arrested by God not to goe to an earthly Jayle but to goe to hell for ever O how should it grieve your soules for such a one how should you pitie such and desire the Lord while there is helpe and hope to shew mercy upon them Thus you see these three sorts are cashiered for not being sound and the Lord be mercifull unto us Vse 1. what a few are there besides these Thinke of