Selected quad for the lemma: heaven_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
heaven_n	father_n	son_n	trinity_n	2,382	5	9.7008	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A93367	The heads and substance of a discourse; first private, and afterwards publike; held in Axbridge, in the county of Somerset, about the 6th of March, 1650. Between Iohn Smith of Badgworth, and Charls Carlile of Bitsham, &c. on the one part; and Thomas Collier of Westbury on the other. Things they are of weight and highest concernment. / Published by the said Tho. Collier of Westbury.	Collier, Thomas, fl. 1691.; Smith, John, of Badgworth.; Carlile, Charles.	1651 (1651)	Wing S4091; Thomason E1368_2; ESTC R209287	11,613	29

The heads and substance OF A DISCOVRSE First private and afterwards publike held in Axbridge in the County of Somerset about the 6th of March 1650. Between Iohn Smith of Badgworth and Charls Carlile of Bitsham c. on the one part and Thomas Collier of Westbury on the other Things they are of weight and highest concernment Published by the said Tho. Collier of Westbury John 17. 3. And this is life eternal that they know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent 1 Cor. 2. 8. And this is that wisdom and that knowledge which none of the Princes of the world knew for had they known it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory London Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spred-Eagle at the West end of Pauls 1651. To the Right Honourable the Supreme Authority of this Nation the High Court of Parliament And to the Right Honourable the Council of State Right Honourable IT possibly may by some be accounted too much boldness for me who am indeed the least of all Saints to present this ensuing Discourse unto your Honours it s not the apprehension that I have of any worth that is in my self let me be abased so Truth be exalted but the reasons drawing me unto it are first those unchristian like and indeed inhumane like reproaches and falshoods I received from them both before at and since the Discourse Secondly that ability which God hath given I trust I may say without flattery or folly to many of your Honours to judge of things that differ 3. That power likewise which resides in you of restraining and punishing those who are declared enemies to the Lord Jesus the peace of his people and the Nation well If you thus be a sanctuary to the Saints and maintainers of the interest of the Son of Righteousness in the world which is righteousness and holiness the takers off of yokes and burdens from the people that so they may as the Lord speaks of his people in another case fear you for your goodness in the latter and then shall thy light break forth as the morning and thine health shall spring forth speedily and thy righteousness shall go before thee and the glory of the Lord shall gather thee up Esay 58. 8. So prayes he who is your Honours to serve in the Lord Jesus Tho. Collier The heads and substance of the Discourse are as followeth The particulars they swore to are these following 1. HE denied Jesus Christ to be the eternal Son of God 2. He denyed a local heaven 3. He denyed the equality of the Son with the Father 4. He denyed that Jesus Christ by his death upon the Cross did satisfie divine Justice 5. He denyed the Trinity 6. He affirmed that the Saints are the Sons of God in the same manner as Christ himself 7. He affirmed that the divine essence was communicated to the Saints 8. He affirmed that the bodies of the Saints should be turned into Spirits 9. he affirmed that the Moral Law was abrogated To four of these particulars they swore false and after acknowledged it taking up the argument as it was at first truly stated thus 1. He denyed Jesus Christ to be the Son of God by an eternal generation 2. He denyed the equality of the Son with the Father as they hold it forth 3. He denyed a Trinity of Persons in the Godhead 4. He affirmed that the Moral Law as a ministration in the hands of Moses was abrogated and done away to believers But to the first in order 1. He denyed Jesus Christ to be the Son of God by an eternal generation That which they undertook to maintain in this particular was the eternal generation of the Son by the Father in the Godhead which was and is by me denyed the Scripture they had at first to prove it was that in the Common-prayer book in Athanasius Creed That he was very God of very God begotten before all worlds I denyed that to be Scripture they affirmed it to be in the Scripture I told them I knew no such Scripture and desired them to look it they searched the Scripture turned their Concordance but could not find it I then told them where they might find it but in the second meeting they produced these Scriptures John 3. 16. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son and John 1. 14. 1 John 4. 9. He sent his only begotten that we might live c. and hence endeavoured to maintain this argument that if Christ was the only begotten then he was eternally begotten c. that I denyed for he is not said to be begotten but as in the womb of the Virgin by the power of the most high Luke 1. and upon this accouut he is said to be the only begotten Son of the Father because there was never any son so begotten they still pressed this argument that this begetting must of necessity be a begetting before all time I answered them out of Psal 2. 7. Thou art my son this day have I begotten thee which is a begetting in time they then fell to that in Prov. 8. 25. Before the mountains were setled before the hils was I brought forth hence endeavouring to maintain an eternal begetting which was denyed bringing forth and begetting being not the same although after the flesh begetting precedes bringing forth yet in the Divine mystery there is a bringing forth without begetting in conclusion I charged Person Smith with blasphemy and nonsence blasphemy in holding forth a generation in the Godhead which is proper only to the creature and nonsence in holding forth a generation in the Godhead the Father begetting the Son and yet the Son to be coeternal and that it was him that indeed denyed the eternity of the Son I shall further declare my understanding in this mystery Christ as the Son relating to the Divine being was and is that wisdom which was before the mountains and hils viz. that wisdom power light love c. which lay hid in silence in the Father and was the Father before the Creation yet lay hid viz. not made manifest to any creature but in the Creation put forth and made manifest as likewise in the preservation but especially in the restauration and drawing up of souls into spiritual union fellowship so manifest in the man Christ Jesus John 1. 1 2 3. with verse 14. Here is a bringing forth of that excellency which was in the Father from eternity into visible manifestation to the Creation but last and specially to those made partakers of that birth from above John 3. 3. so that that wisdom brought forth is not something begotten by the Father but the bringing forth of that word of wisdom and power which was before all beginning with God in God and is God so that to conclude this particular I neither did nor do deny the eternity of the Son but the generation as relating to the Divine being To the

second 2. He denyed a local heaven In this I denyed heaven to be a particular limited place I acknowledged that heaven must have some place for that which hath no place hath no being but that as far as I know it s not a limited place that is some place of glory above the firmament as is imagined but that heaven relates rather to a condition of glory then a place of glory and it s not the place but the condition which makes either heaven or hell He viz. Parson Smith proceeds to proof produces that of Paul being in the third heaven 2 Cor. 12. I asked him if he thought that Paul was taken up above the Starry firmament he answered yea for he knew no other heaven I answered I knew another heaven which Christ speaks of which is within and doubtless this is the heaven the Apostle was in The highest manifestations and injoyment of the Lord so high that he knew not himself whether in the body or out of the body that this is the truth appears in that he is not speaking of being transported personally into such a high place as is imagined for he is speaking of visions and revelations so high heavenly and excellent that he knew not whether he were in or out of the body He produced Steven Acts 7. 55 56. who said Behold I see the heavens open and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God I asked if he thought Steven was so quick sighted as to see so many hundred thousand miles as they say it is and it s very probable Steven was in a house too and that I understood it to be the invisible glory of Father and Son manifest unto Steven he answered that it is said he saw Christ at the right hand of the Father I answered its true but what understand you by right hand that is an expression rather to declare the glory of Christ then the place and that which I understood by right hand was and is the enojoyment of the Fathers love of the Fathers glory at his right hand are pleasures for evermore the apprehensions of wrath and anger is the left hand c. so that heaven which Steven saw open was the glorious opening and unfoldings of the Father and Son whom to behold in love is life and then was a time for Steven to see the heavenly glory of the Father and Son in a speciall manner when under such a trial for the profession of them One Parson Fearn stands up and prest Parson Smith to say something in confirmation of the point in hand for the satisfaction of the people which put him the more to a stand then the said Parson Fearn produced that Scripture Col. 3. 1. If ye be risen with Christ seek those things which are above where Christ sitteth at the right hand of God I answered that this Scripture held forth no local but a spiritual heaven for the heaven here is that into which saints are already risen into if risen with him then above with him beholding the glory of the Son with the Father seeking things which are sutable to such a condition until the Son shall appear in his brightness then shall they appear with him in glory verse 4. for they shall see him as he is 1 John 3. 3. They ask where heaven is if not a particular place I answer as in relation to God its every where he being in all places yet never out of the perfection of glory therefore never out of heaven as in relation to the Creature it s every where where the heavenly light and love is manifest and the soul taken into union with it He asked if I would bring heaven and hell together whether heaven was in hell I answered yea it is in hell you grant that God is in hell then certainly heaven is there for God is never out of the heavenly glory farther two persons may be in one place the one in heaven the other in hell the one in the injoyment of love and grace the other in the apprehension of wrath and anger experience declares the truth of this and thus may it be in another world to eternity seeing its not the place but the condition which makes the difference Again heaven and hell light and darkness joy and sorrow may be in one heart yet the light still distinguished from the darkness hell and heaven distinguished and at a distance each from other Vnto the third 3. He denyed the equality of the Son with the Father this was abused in the terms and after consented unto that he denyed the equality of the Son in the way they hold it forth which is as the second person in the Divine being there I denyed any equality for there is no quality in God quality and equality is only proper to the creature not the Creator Therefore if we consider Christ as God so he is the Father at this he cried out Blasphemy making wonders till I produced the Scripture Esay 9. 6. where he is said to be the mighty God the everlasting Father the Prince of peace The Scripture produced to prove an equality was Phil. 2. 6. Who being in the form of God thought it no robbery to be equal with God to which I answered that the equality there intended was not an equality in the Divine being but the excellent quality of the humane nature by virtue of its union with the Divine and so he thought it no robbery to be equal because God had made him so for its evident in the Scripture that its the same He that was in the form of God and equal with him which died upon the Cross and I suppose none dare affirm that it was the Godhead which dyed upon the Cross therefore I say he was made equall at which they wondred again I proved it thus Act. 2. 36. God hath made that same Jesus whom ye crucified both Lord and Christ And all power is given to the Son And God hath given him a name above every name c. The fourth Particular 4. He denyed that Jesus Christ by his death upon the Cross did satisfie divine Justice In this they likewise abused me for that which I asserted was That Christ by his death upon the Cross did not satisfie divine Justice in the way they hold it forth viz. That God was offended and Christ the second Person steps in and undertakes to make satisfaction to divine Justice This was that which I denyed affirming that the Redemption and Salvation of man flows singly and purely from the Fathers Love and that Christ came forth from the Father did the work of the Father was upheld and carryed through by the Father for saith Christ John 5. 19. The Son of himself can do nothing And God so loved the world that he gave his Son Joh. 3. 16. So that Christ is the manifestation of the Fathers love To clear this truth unto them I gave them this comparison Suppose one of you lend