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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
heaven_n	enter_v	righteousness_n	scribe_n	2,630	5	11.0710	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A10345	The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundrie points, of the sufficiencie and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministerie of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the masse, with other controuerises of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-gouernment ... Penned by Iohn Rainoldes, according to the notes set downe in writing by them both: perused by Iohn Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithfull report of that which past in conference betwene them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise intitled, Six conclusions touching the Holie Scripture and the Church, writen by Iohn Rainoldes. With a defence of such thinges as Thomas Stapleton and Gregorie Martin haue carped at therein.	Rainolds, John, 1549-1607.; Hart, John, d. 1586. aut; Rainolds, John, 1549-1607. Sex theses de Sacra Scriptura, et Ecclesia. English. aut	1584 (1584)	STC 20626; ESTC S115546	763,703	768

Pharises taught that the affection is no transgression of the law so that a man refraine from the action of dooing euill As for example it is saide in the law Thou shalt not kill This commaundement they tyed to the act of murther and glosed thus vpon it whosoeuer killeth shall be culpable of iudgement as though it bridled only the hand and not the heart In like sort they expounded Thou shalt not commit adulterie as if it were enough to kéepe the flesh chast the soule defiled with vncleannes But our Sauiour teacheth them an other lesson that howsoeuer they pretend antiquitie for their gloses yet wrath malice lust euen the very affections of murther and adulterie doo breake the commandements and not the outward déedes onely The rest of their peruerse expositions I passe ouer The last may serue for all Thou shalt loue thy neighbour as thy selfe saith the law Wherein the worde neighbour doth signifie as you would say one that is ioyned to vs as all men are some more some lesse but all in a naturall bond of humanitie The very light of nature hath taught the heathens so much who saw that certaine dueties are due from all men each to other through this coniunction of mankind and so haue likewise vsed the name of neighbors generally for al other men as it is meant in this commaundement Thou shalt loue thy neighbour But the Scribes Pharises thinking that a neighbour doth signifie a freend who beareth vs good will and him wee ought to loue did thereupon gather and glose of the contrarie And thou shalt hate thine enimie Which interpretation of the law is lewd and sheweth that they were grossely blinde in expounding it Wherefore our Sauiour reprouing their corruptions in this and other of their doctrines doth say to his disciples Except your righteousnes exceede the righteousnes of the Scribes and Pharises yee shall not enter into the kingdome of heauen Hart. Our Sauiour might speake these wordes of their liues and not of their doctrines because they were wont to say and not to doo As for the pointes which you say were gloses of the Scribes and Pharises some of the Fathers take them to bée the law of Moses it selfe corrected and supplied or rather perfited by Christ. So doth S. Chrysostome compare the one with the other as the olde law with the new and saith that the commaundements of Moses are easie refraine from murther and adulterie but the commaundements of Christ hard refraine from wrath and lust So doth S. Austin séeme to haue thought also Rainoldes They thought so I graunt good men and well meaning abused by the craft of the Scribes and Pharises who to winne the people thereby the more easily vnto their opinions did vtter them in Moses wordes though with an other sense then Moses As that which he meant of lawfull othes and vowes they turned it to vnlawfull of punishment by publike iudgement they turned it to priuate reuengement But this shift of theirs which Christ doth but allude vnto as notorious did cary S. Austin away with such a preiudice that he thought this also to be writen in the law because it cometh in as the rest Thou shalt hate thine enimie whereas the law commaundeth men to loue their enimies and to doo them good The lesse maruell is it if he were deceiued in the former pointes In the which yet afterward he saw his errour and corrected it For when the Manichees who condemned the God of the old Testament as contrarie to the new did reason out of this place that Christ reproueth sundry pointes in the law of Moses he answered that Christ reproueth not the law but them who mistooke it who thought that the forbidding of murther and adulterie did touch not the affections and lustes but actes onely And though it came not then into his mind neither that the law saith not Thou shalt hate thine enimie yet hee considered that it could not otherwise be meant in the old Testament then as in the new we must hate our enimies or rather Gods enimies hate their vices not their persons S. Chrysostome in this point slipped not so much For his wordes thereof be such that it séemeth not he thought it writen in the law If in the rest he did not retract as Austin did he had not the Manichees to sharpen him as Austin had Their folly would haue made him wiser At least what soeuer the Fathers thought therein it is certaine that Christ reproued not the law of God but the gloses of men vpon it Which the newer writers euen of your owne acknowledge yea the Catechisme of Trent too And one a Iewe by ofspring conuerted to the Christian faith doth note out of the writings of an auncient Iewe who liued about the time of Christ that the Iewes thought the outward deedes onely and not the motions of the mind to bee forbidden by the commaundements Wherefore in that you say that Christ when he taught that his disciples righteousnes ought to exceede the righteousnes of the Scribes and Pharises might speake that of their liues and not of their doctrines you say well of the one side but not of the other For he meant it of both Which appéereth by this that he therein giueth a reason of his former spéech as the word for doth shew for I say vnto you except your righteousnes excede the righteousnes of the Scribes and Pharises ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heauen Now the former spéech was that who soeuer shall breake one of these least commaundements and teach men so he shall be called the least in the kingdome of heauen that is he shall be none in it The Scribes and Pharises therfore men famous for their righteousnes who counted these commaundements mentioned by Christ least that is they made no count of them as thinking wrath and malice and lust no transgressions are noted to haue offended not onely in breaking them but in teaching so too And how did they teach so but as Christ declareth by misexpounding the law Therfore in expounding the law they did erre Hart. They did erre after a sort yet marke withall how They taught that the actions of muther and adulterie are forbidden by the law but they taught not that the affections are forbidden This was in deede to teach lesse then the law but not to teach against the law Yea to hate their enimies was after a sort also commaunded in the law For when God sent the children of Israel into the land of Canaan he charged them to cast out all the inhabitants of that land Now those inhabitants were their enimies and of these enimies God saith Thou shalt vtterly destroy them thou shalt make no couenant with them nor haue compassion vpon them Behold they must destroy them Was this to hate them or no

haue Nor yet am I ashamed of that kinde of triall and iudgement by the godly who haue not learned toonges and artes but Christ onely And I comprised it in that which I said that Christ is the iudge and they which vnder him haue it committed to them euen the church of Christ. For himselfe hath giuen by speciall commission two sortes of iudgement to his church the one priuate the other publike priuate to all the faithfull and spirituall as God calleth them who are willed to iudge of that which is taught and to trie spirits whither they be of God publike to the assembly of pastors and elders for of that which Prophets teach let Prophets iudge and the spirites of Prophetes are subiect to the Prophets In both of the which the church must yet remember that God hath committed nothing but the ministerie of giuing iudgement vnto her The soueraintie of iudgement dooth rest on Gods word For Christ is our onely Doctor Law-giuer according to whose written will the church must iudge And so to returne vnto the wordes of Christ from which we digressed the sense I gaue of them will I proue by scripture according to the rule of faith the proofe of the sense I submit to the priuate and publike iudgement of the church The wordes of Christ to Peter conteined a promise of the keyes I will giue thee the keyes of the kingdome of heauen The occasion of the wordes was a question of Christ asked of the Apostles answered by Peter whom say yee that I am Thou art Christ the Sonne of the liuing God The sense which I gathered by laying these together was that as Peter answered one for all so the keyes were meant to him one with all To proue the former point that Peter answered one for all the scripture is most plaine in the sixt of Iohn where before this time Peter had confessed in their common name We beleeue and know that thou art Christ the Sonne of the liuing God To proue the later that the keyes were meant to him one with all the scripture is as plaine in the twentieth of Iohn where Christ performing that which he had promised to Peter doth say to him with the rest As my Father sent me so doo I send you Whose sinnes soeuer ye remit they are remitted to them whose sinnes soeuer ye reteine they are reteined Wherefore sith the keyes were promised by Christ on the profession of their fayth which was common to them all and the promise was performed when he sent them all with power to binde and loose to remit and reteine sinnes it followeth that the keyes belonged no more to Peter then to all the Apostles And therefore the promise of the keyes to him importeth no headship of his ouer them Hart. That which was promised by Christ vnto Peter was not performed to the Apostles For he gaue not them the keyes of his kingdome but the power of remitting and reteyning sinnes Rainoldes These things differ in wordes but they are one in sense as Ioseph said to Pharao Both Pharaos dreames are one For as God to teach Pharao what he would do in Egipt by seuen yeares of plentie seuen yeares of famine did vse two sundrie dreames of kine and eares of corne the surer to resolue him of his purpose in it so Christ to teach vs what he doth for mankind in ordeining the ministerie of the word Sacraments vseth two similituds the one of keyes the other of binding loosing that we may know the better the fruit force of it Touching the keyes he speaketh of heauen as of a house wherinto there is no entrance for men vnlesse the doore be opened Now we all Adams ofspring are shut out of heauen as Adam our progenitour was out of Paradise through our offenses and sinnes For no vncleane thing shall enter into it But God of his loue and fauour towards vs hath giuen vs his sonne his onely begotten sonne that whosoeuer beleeueth in him should not perish but haue eternall life which is the inheritaunce reserued in heauen for vs. We cannot beleeue vnlesse wée heare his word We heare not his word vnlesse it be preached Wherefore when God the Father sent his sonne Christ and Christ sent his Apostles as his Father sent him to preach his word to men that they who repented and beleeued in Christ should haue their sinnes forgiuen them the faithlesse vnrepentant should not be forgiuen then he gaue authoritie as it were to open heauen to the faithfull and to shut it against the wicked Which office to shut and open because in mens houses it is exercised by keies and the stewarde of the house is saide to haue the key of it to open it and to shut it therefore Christ the principall steward of Gods house is saide to haue the key of Dauid and he gaue his Apostles the keies as you would say of the kingdome of heauen when hee made them his stewardes to shut out to let in The other similitude of binding and loosing is to like effect For we are all by nature the children of sinne and therefore of death Now sinnes are in a maner the same to the soule that cordes to the body and the endlesse paines of death that is the wages of sinne are like to chaines wherewith the wicked are bound in hell as in a prison From these cordes of sinne and chaines of death eternall men are loosed by Christ when their sinnes be remitted their sinnes are remitted if they beleeue in him If they beleeue not their sinnes are reteined whose sinnes are reteined they doo continue bound For he that beleeueth not shall be condemned he that beléeueth shall be saued None shall be condemned but they whose sinnes are reteined to binde them with the chaines of darkenesse none saued but they whose sinnes are remitted and the cordes vnloosed by which they were holden UUherefore sith the Gospell is preached to this ende a sauour of life to life vnto beléeuers vnto the vnbeléeuers a sauour of death to death as we reade of Christ that the Lord sent him to preach deliuerance to the captiues and opening of prison to them that are bound in like sort his ministers whom he sent to preach it are said to binde and loose to reteine and remit sinnes So that both these kinds of spéech import the same that is signified by keyes For to binde and to reteine sinnes is to shut to loose and to remit sinnes is to open the kingdome of heauen Your owne church dooth take the keyes in this meaning euen the Councell of Trent For whereas Christ gaue to his Apostles and their successours the power of binding and loosing that is of remitting and reteining sinnes as your selues expound it this power you call the power of the keies as

were Rainoldes Then Satan desired to shake out of them al their loue towardes Christ that they might forsake him and reuolte from him Hart. He did so Rainoldes And this he did to what ende but that he might destroy them as he desired to sift Iob As S. Peter warneth vs the Deuill goeth about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may deuour Hart. It is true Rainoldes And as S. Peter armeth vs against the attempts of the Deuill by this lesson whom resist ye strong in faith so Christ did arme him by praying to God and obteining for him that his faith should not faile Hart. Uery true He armed him and made him most strong that he being conuerted might strengthen his brethren Rainoldes Doo you not sée then that he must néedes meane by faith a liuely faith which hath the loue of Christ and constant godlines ioined with it by which the Deuill is conquered hell escaped heauen assured For if he had meant the doctrine as you construe it the true and Catholike doctrine of the faith of Christ how had he armed Peter against those fiery darts of Satā which a right opinion in matters of faith was not able to quench Wherin marke I pray what blemish you cast on the wisedome of Christ whom you suppose to haue said to Peter the Deuill will tempt you to draw you from my loue and to destroy you body and soule but I haue prayed for thee that thou shalt thinke aright in matters of faith Which is as if a Captaine to cheere vp a souldiour whom he had speciall care off against the battaile should tell him the enimie will assault you with poisoned shot to kill you but I haue got a shield of paper for thee to defend thee from it Then which what can be spoken more ridiculous or absurd Hart. As though a right faith were no stronger fense against assaultes of the Deuill then is a shield of paper against poisoned shot S. Paule thought not so who in the armour of a Christian exhorteth vs aboue all things to take the shield of faith Rainoldes S. Paule meaneth not the same by faith that you doo For he addeth of that shield that we may quench all the fiery dartes of the wicked that is to say of the deuill with it But a right opinion in matters of faith cannot quench them all as it is plaine by Iudas or by Pope Iohn Therefore hee meaneth by the shield of faith a liuely Christian faith which God doth giue to his elect and to them onely by which wee ouercome the deuill and all his forces and enter into heauen Howbeit I deny not that a right opinion in matters of faith is stronger then paper against some dartes of Satan to weete against errours But to be preserued safe from these dartes is not enough to life neither doo all of them giue mortall woundes The dartes whereof I spake are more sharpe deadly Whom they wound they kill Against the which kind if Christ had armed Peter with such a faith as you imagine when Satan desired to sift him as wheat it is profane to thinke it but it foloweth of your fansie that he armed him with as it were a paper-shield against poysoned shot For as against this shot a shield of paper cannot preserue our temporall life so a right opinion in matters of faith could not saue him to life eternall from those dartes Hart. And what if our Sauiour meant a liuely faith in that he prayed for Peter Rainoldes Then he prayed for Peter that which he prayed not for the Popes For he obteineth alwaies the things which he prayeth for But he obteined not a liuely faith for al the Popes as I haue proued Therefore he prayed not for it And so is that position found to be false on which you pitch the Papacie that Christ made that prayer for Peters successours in the See of Rome which he made for Peter not to faile in faith Hart. Yet Christ gaue him also that faith which we speake off I meane a right iudgement in matters of faith with grace that neither it should faile And in this priuilege the Pope doth succeede him though not in the other Rainoldes You should first proue that Christ meant this priuilege in mentioning faith there or els I will answere that he gaue it to Peter as to the Apostles And so may their successours claime it as well as Peters But admit he meant it The Pope doth not succeede him in this priuilege neither For the Pope may not onely erre in doctrine but also be an heretike Which I hope you will not say that Peter might Hart. Neither by my good will that the Pope may Rainoldes But you must no remedie It is a ruled case Your Schoolemen and Canonistes Ockam Hostiensis Turrecremata Zabarella Cusanus Antoninus Alfonsus Canus Sanders Bellarmin and others yea the Canon law it selfe yea a Councell a Romane councell confirmed by the Pope do graunt it Hart. They graunt that the Pope may be an heretike perhaps by a supposall as many things may be which neuer were nor are nor shall be For you cannot proue that euer any Pope was an heretike actually though possibly they may be Wherof I will not striue Rainoldes If they may be possibly which you must néedes graunt then is it certaine that it was not meant by the words of Christ that they should not faile in doctrine of faith For whatsoeuer he saith that it shall not be that cannot be possibly But it it is no surer that they may be heretikes then it is manifest that some of them haue béene For whē the Church was pestered with the heresie of the Monothelites who whereas Christ is made our Sauiour and redéemer by that he doth consist of two natures God and man and as of two natures so of two willes agreeably to the natures they say that Christ hath but onely one will and by consequent but one nature which razeth the ground of our saluation Honorius the Pope did hold and teach this heresie The sixth generall councell found him guiltie of it condemned him and cursed him for it Hart. Whether Pope Honorius held that heresie or no the Catholikes are of diuers iudgements some thinking that he did some that he did not Father Robert the reader of controuersies in Rome preferreth the opinion of Pighius Hosius and Onuphrius before them al who thinke otherwise and so with their consent he doth acquite Honorius Rainoldes How by a pardon as Barrabas was acquited Or haue they empaneled a iurie of Clerkes and found him not guiltie Hart. They shew by good reasons that he is falsely slaundered For Pighius and Hosius doo bring the testimonies of historians Platina Sabellicus Nauclerus Blondus Aeneas Siluius who say that Honorius did condemne the heresie of the

the worde which your exposition forceth to pointes of faith Christ himselfe applyeth it to precepts of maners kepe the commandements So pithie is the timber of which you frame your fansies Though if we should take it all as verie sounde and graunt that Christ meant obseruing and dooing of beléefe and life your purpose is not proued thereby For whether pointes of faith or precepts of maners he willeth Scribes and Pharises to bée obeyed no farther then in what they teach out of the chaire of Moses Hart. The wordes of our Sauiour are a great deale larger You straitē them I know not how All things whatsoeuer they shall say vnto you obserue ye and doo ye marke he saith all thinges And he that saith all thinges doth except nothing You except many Rainoldes The Lord did command the people of Israell to repaire in causes of difficultie and doubt to the Priestes and to the iudge and aske and they shall shew thee the sentence of iudgement and thou shalt obserue to doo according vnto all that they shall teach thee These wordes thou shalt obserue to doo according vnto all that they shall teach thee the Iewes are accustomed to alleage commonly when they defend their fond traditions receiued of their Fathers And Selomoh a Rabbin whom they make great account off doth glose them with this note Thou must not decline from that which they shall tell thee no not though they say that the right hand is the left and the left hand is the right A mightie spirit of errour that hath bewitched these men But you and your Church doo runne apace after them Perhaps you thinke you may be as bolde for your Popes as Rabbi Selomoh for their Priestes Hart. No sir. For I graunt that Rabbi Selomoh speaketh foolishly Which is plaine by the place it selfe whereon he gloseth For the scripture saith there thou shalt doo all that they shall teach thee according to the law or to his law as we reade it Wherefore to doo all that the Priestes taught is not meant of thinges vngodlie or false but onely true and consonant to the law of God Rainoldes Euen so the scripture sarth here The Scribes and the Pharises doo sit in the chaire of Moses all thinges therefore whatsoeuer they say you must obserue obserue ye and doo ye Wherein the word therefore restraineth all thinges to that which they teach in the chaire of Moses that is as I haue shewed out of the law of God So that by your leaue the dreame of the Iewes is as wise as yours in this point of all And as you say to vs so may they to you he that saith all thinges doth except nothing You except many Hart. Nay I except nothing of all which the Scribes and the Pharises teach For Christ as I saide requireth all those thinges to be obserued which they teach because they teach not other thinges but such as are to be obserued Rainoldes But if they taught any thing against the law of God I trust you will except that and graunt that all was not to be obserued which they taught Hart. If they taught any thing against the law I graunt But I deny that they taught any thing against it yea or could teach Rainoldes And why doo you deny it Hart. Because Christ saith of them they sit vpō the chaire of Moses Whereby to take your owne exposition he meant they teach as Moses did Now if they taught as Moses then taught they not against the law neither could they For if they could teach against the law of God then might that bee false which was meant by Christ that they teach as Moses Rainoldes That reason holdeth not For many speake the truth who can lye if néede be and many speake the truth in some thinges who in all thinges doo not Christ respecteth that which the Scribes and Pharises did ordinarily they read the law in the Synagogues they willed the people to obserue it yea in outward thinges as ceremonies tithes purifyings and sabbats they did exact it most straitly But as Paul said vnto the hye Priest thou sittest to iudge me according to the law and doost thou command me to be smitten against the law so did they some times teach against the law when they should teach according to it And hereof is proofe made by Christ him selfe who therefore willed his disciples to beware of the leauen that is the doctrine of the Pharises Hart. Then belike they sate not vpon the chaire of Moses at some times when they taught Rainoldes True but cleane beside it vpon a stoole of their owne For Moses wrote of Christ and Christ is the end of his law But they refused Christ and taught the people so to doo They watched him of purpose that they might finde matter of accusation against him They pronounced of him that he cast out diuels by the Prince of diuels They condemned him as guiltie of death They saide that they had found him a man peruerting the nation forbidding to pay tribute to Caesar. They sclaunderously accused the iust they did blaspheme the God of glory they put to death the Lord of life They neither entred them selues into the kingdome of heauen nor suffered others to enter in Hart. I graunt that in the person of Christ they did erre but they did not erre in expounding the law For when they were demaunded where Christ should bee borne they said at Bethleem in Iudaea and they said well But because the virgin Marie and Ioseph dwelt at Nazareth in Galile before he was borne and there he liued with them after in so much that he was called Iesus of Nazareth they thought he had beene borne there not at Bethleem and so they were deceiued and did not know him to be Christ. Rainoldes Yet this is the substance of the word of life not that there shal be a Christ which the Iewes beleeue till this day but that Iesus of Nazareth whom they crucified was that Christ. The Scribes and the Pharises said he was not Ought the Iewes herein to beleeue as they said If you thinke that they ought no maruaile if you hold that we must doo as Popes say If you thinke they ought not then the Scribes and Pharises did erre in some thinge that they taught As for that you answere they erred in Christes person not in expounding the law it is a méere cauill For we speake in generall of the chaire of Moses that is of his doctrine They erred in expounding the doctrine of Moses when they denyed to Christ the thinges which Moses wrote of him Howbeit that it is false too that they erred not in expounding the law For whereas the law is holy and spirituall requiring perfit righteousnes not onely in the outward actions of the bodie but also in the in ward affections of the minde the Scribes and the

this that Malachie meaneth doth succéede the sacrifices of the Iewes and is offered in their stéede but praier fasting and the workes of charitie doo not succéede any but are ioined and coopled to euerie kinde of sacrifices Fifthly our workes chiefely in the iudgement of heretikes are defiled howsoeuer they séeme beautifull but this Prophetical offering is cleane of it selfe and so cleane of it selfe in comparison of the olde sacrifices that it cannot be polluted anie way by vs or by the woorst Priests For here in our testament they cannot choose all the best to them selues and offer to the Lord for sacrifice the féeble the lame and the sicke as before in the old because there is now one sacrifice so appointed that it cannot be chaunged so cleane that no worke of ours can distaine it Finally the Fathers and all that euer haue expounded this place of purpose catholikely haue expounded it of the sacrifice of the Masse yea then when they speake of the sacrifice of praier yea or of spirituall sacrifice Wherein the heretikes deceiue and are deceiued For the Fathers call our sacrifice some times an offering of prayer and a spirituall sacrifice because it is made with blessing and with prayer mysticall because the victime that is here hath not a grosse carnall and bloody consecration or sacrification as had the victimes of the Iewes Sée Tertullian in the third booke against Marcion in the end Iustin in Trypho Irenaeus in the fourth booke the two and thirtieth chapter Ierom on the eighth of Zacharie Austin in the first booke against the aduersarie of the law and the eightenth chapter albeit in the second booke against the letters of Petilian he doth expound it of the sacrifice of prayse Cyprian also in the first booke the sixtenth chapter against the Iewes Cyrill in the booke of worshipping in spirit and truth Eusebius in the first booke of preparation of the gospell Damascen in the fourth booke of the Catholike faith and the fourtenth chapter Theodoret vpon the first chapter of Malachie Thus farre D. Allen. By whom you may perceiue that we bring the right opinion of the Fathers with many other reasons out of the circumstances of the text it selfe to proue that the cleane offering in the Prophet Malachie doth signifie the sacrifice of the blessed Masse Rainoldes Nay I may perceiue that D. Allen bringeth the names of the Fathers though Damascen a childe in respect of the rest farre in yeares beneth them farther in iudgement but their names he bringeth he bringeth not their right opiniō For if their opiniō be searched examined it maketh nothing for him And therfore he doth onely name them quote them Which point of his wisdome your Rhemists folow much Many other reasons he bringeth I graunt besides the names of Fathers but it had béene better for him not to bring them For Tertullian Iustin Irenaeus Ierom Austin Cyprian Cyrill Eusebius Damascen and Theodoret would make a faire shew with their names alone if the other reasons and they were set a sunder Now being matched in a band together and agréeing no better then Ephraim with Manasses and Manasses with Ephraim who did eate vp one another they marre the matter with their discorde That as the Emperour Adrian saide when he was dying The multitude of physicians hath cast away the Emperour so may you complaine the multitude of reasons hath cast away the proofe which your Masse did hope to procure by Malachie Hart. Not so But their multitude helpeth one an other For many thinges which singled by them selues are weake are strong if they be ioyned and a three fold coard is not easily broken Rainoldes This is a roape of sande rather then a coard it will not hang together For whereas D. Allen doth thus alleage Malachie after your olde translation in euery place there is sacrificed and offered a cleane offering to my name saith the Lord of hostes the Hebrew text and after the Hebrew the Gréeke of the seuentie interpreters which the Fathers folow doo set it downe thus in euery place there is incense offered to my name and a cleane offering Now the worde incense is vsed in the scripture simply for prayers in the fifth chapter of the Reuelation where the golden vials of the foure and twentie Elders are full of odours or incenses to keepe the worde which are the prayers of the Saintes And so doo the Fathers expound the same in Malachie Wherefore the first reason which you rehersed of D. Allens that the worde to sacrifice being vsed by it selfe without a terme abridging it is taken in the scripture alwayes properly for the act of outward sacrifice is false both in it selfe and by the iudgement of the Fathers For that worde of his is incense in the Fathers according to the scripture But incense in the scripture is taken for prayers figuratiuely By the iudgement therefore and exposition of the Fathers that worde doth not inferre the sacrifice of the Masse but our spirituall sacrifices Hart. In déede S. Iohn expoundeth in the Apocalypse those odours to be the prayers of the Saintes But thereby it is plain as we note vpon it that the Saintes in heauen offer vp the prayers of faithfull and holy persons in earth called here Saintes and in the scripture often vnto Christ. And among so many diuine and vnserchable mysteries set down without exposition it pleased God yet that the Apostle him selfe should open this one point vnto vs that these odours be the laudes and prayers of the faithfull ascending and offered vp to God as incense by the Saintes in heauen That so you may haue no excuse of your errour that the Saintes haue no knowledge of our affaires or desires Rainoldes You are too too flitting on euery occasion from the present point in question to others And yet if we should enter into that controuersie about the worship of Saintes that honour which you giue them would finde no succour here For neither doth it follow that we must pray to them though they did offer vp our prayers neither is it certaine that the Saintes in heauen onely are represented in the foure and twentie Elders neither if they be can you proue that the prayers of Saintes which they offer are other mens prayers they may bee their owne And for my part I doo rather thinke that the foure and twentie Elders represent all the Saintes and faithfull both in heauen and earth who offer vp their owne prayers as incense to God For after that S. Iohn had saide that the odours are the prayers of the Saintes he addeth that they sang a new song saying Thou art worthie to take the booke and to open the seales thereof because thou wast killed and hast redeemed vs to God by thy blood out of euery kinred and tongue and people and nation and hast made vs Kinges and Priests vnto our God and