the Gentiles neuer vsed that word which the heathen at that time did not vnderstand but where occasion so required they retained the word hades and applied it to the place of torment and to the ruler thereof which things were not strange to the Gentiles Since then the Euangelist and Apostles neuer ment to confirme or continue the erroneous fansies of the Pagans and yet vsed their words it is euident they vnderstood so much by these wordes as was not repugnant to the Christian faith Now hades with the Pagans was a place vnder the earth where the wicked after this life were punished This was agreeable to the trueth and for that cause the Apostles retained that sense and force of the word That the soules of the iust were also kept vnder the earth in rest and ease this was the error of the heathen though both Iewes and Christians lighted afterwardes on that fansie This the Apostles doe not ratifie in vsing the word hades for that it was not consonant to the grounds of true religion from which they neuer ment to depart by vsing any wordes accustomed among the heathen And as the Gentiles before they beleeued vsed hades for the chiefe ruler of those Infernall places so doth Saint Iohn not refuse to attribute that name to the diuell in his Reuelation And so without your conceits or discourses we haue shortly and plainely the cause and course why and how the Canonicall writers concurred with the Grecians in vsing the word hades and yet corrected their error Howbeit I thinke the Apostles had chiefe respect to the Septuagint who translating the Hebrew into Greeke then rife in many learned mens handes and expressing there the sense of Sheôl vsed Hades for the death of the bodie in the graue and for the death of the soule in hell after whose example the sacred writers of the new Testament speaking of the wicked or ioyning death with hades note what hades is besides the death of the bodie which they intend by Thanatos And therefore though Hades in the old Testament import the places of death for bodie and soule I meane the graue and hell yet throughout the new Testament that word being alwayes opposed to heauen applied to the wicked or connexed with other wordes that signifie the death of the bodie it must of force be taken for the power and place that killeth the soules of all men approching it except onely Christs to whom all powers and principalities in heauen and earth and hell were and are submitted and subiected Hitherto wee haue tried the nature and vse of Hades and haue found it to bee not properly hell as you auouch no not when it is applied to soules of men deceased And therefore also that it cannot be so vnderstood in Acts 2.27 where it is applied to Christs soule after he was dead which yet is the onely place you haue to pretend Hitherto you haue prated what pleased you and proued nothing and notwithstanding your vaine euasions meere priuations inuincible conditions and plaine visible contradictions Hades is found by the full consent of Christian and heathen writers to bee a place vnder the earth and in darkenesse where the soules of the dead adiudged to that place were and are detained vnder the Dominion of the Diuell though the Pagans in their wandering from their trueth imagined him to be a God and dreampt of earthly pleasures there to comfort their deiected spirits against the terror of death And since Christs soule was not left in hades after death as appeareth Acts 2.31 what haue you or any man liuing to say why Christs descent to Hades that is as the Gospell expoundeth this word to the place of torment of which it was impossible for him to be held or to bee therewith touched should not bee iustly grounded on this place wee may simply take hades for the inuisible state or place of the deceased If for the place then for heauen where you say Christes soule was after death And would Christ so greatly reioice that his soule should not be left in heauen Otherwise we may take it simply for deaths force and power supplying also the same wordes eis ton topon or tên chôran hadou in that place where the power and strength of death preuaileth and holdeth the deceased soules from their bodies You haue so many senses that you haue neuer a good First you tooke hades for a state or place and then you supplied it as indeed you must with topon or choran a place or region And so your sense went round like a wheele Thou wilt not leaue my soule in the place of place or state which is not seene that is not in heauen Now you renew your strength to take better hold and saie Thou wilt not leaue my soule to the place of deaths power Where we must note that heauen for there was Christes soule as you grant is by you appointed to be the place of deaths power and so you haue brought vs the strength and power of death and darknesse preuailing in heauen and euen on Christes soule This is the world of the dead implying nothing else but an estate opposite to our visible state in this world Are the places or states of heauen and hell nothing but an opposition to our visible estate in this world There are bodies both in heauen and in hell by the consent of the best Diuines new and old How then is their state opposite to our visible state Moses and Elias were seene talking with Christ in the mount What place will you appoint for them since they were visible And if the world of the dead be nothing else but an estate opposite to our visible estate then Christ after his resurrection relapsed often to hades to the world of the dead for he was inuisible to all men as long as he staied on earth but when and where he was pleased to shew himselfe And if that be true which you your selfe doe say that l in very deed hades hath properly but a priuatiue sense and not any thing positiue in it then your additions of place and region be repugnant to the nature of hades except you can bring vs a place and region of meere priuations in which is nothing positiue and consequently your varieties and expositions of hades be meere illusions and haue nothing in them but lies and mockeries For hades is a place below in the earth and darke by condition as wherein nothing is seene as both Christians and Pagans affirme Hades therefore is no mecre priuation If the soule of Christ then after death were in hades it was not at the same time in heauen for heauen is opposite throughout the Scriptures to hades and your owne common and inuisible place of both is a priuate and palpable errour of your owne Last of all we may take Hades heere by a prosopopaea conceauing it to be as it were some person of vnresistable power taking away
hell And further that being in heauen yet staied not there as you say but immediately came out againe to goe to hell Againe that an humane soule being in the depth of hell yet should feele no paines and that being locally in hell it should come out thence also What can be more against the generall rules of the Scriptures then these things You haue laboured heard and caught a herring With much a doe you haue found at length that Christ was a good man he is more beholding to you now then afore when you told vs he was all defiled accursed and hatefull to God for and with our sinnes Your leasure did not serue you to thinke that he was also the true and eternall Sonne of God and therefore no force of death or hell could preuaile on his body or soule farder then he was willing for the declaration of his humilitie and manifestation of his power and glorie Is it against your faith and charitie that all knees of those in heauen and earth and hell should stoupe and bow to the humane nature of the sonne of God Is your Creed so crazed that you can not beleeue that Christ rising spoiled Principalities and powers and made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in his owne person Is grace so farre gone from you that you may not endure to heare that Christ descended first into the lower parts of the earth and then ascended againe on hie and ledde captiuitie captiue and gaue gifts to men whereof deliuerance and freedome from all power and danger of hell and Satan were not the last nor least But he was a man you say though a good man and therefore you thinke he must be subiected to the same straights that other mortall and sinnefull men are to feele paines in hell and not to come out from thence This which you call faith is infidelitie against the Sonne of God whiles you seeke to tie him with the same chaines of darknesse and weakenesse wherewith wicked and sinnefull men are tied that are adiudged to euerlasting damnation To be condemned to hell is for misbeleeuers and misliuers to destroy the power and strength of hell was meete only for the manhood of the Sonne of God That he felt no paines there and returned thence were the smallest parts of his glorious triumph ouer hell and Satan It was impossible as Peter teacheth that the paines of death or hell should take hold on him and his soule could not be left there As for comming out of heauen to goe to hell to subdue and destroy the same what more inconuenience is in that then in comming from heauen to the graue there to take vp his body when he restored it to life that wicked men condemned to hell cannot come thence nor find ease there I find it testified in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus that the Sonne of God in his humane soule could not goe thither without abiding there for euer and suffering the paines of hell as well as others I find no such grounds in all the Scriptures He saith of himselfe I haue the keies of hell and of death that is all power and command ouer them He had power then not onely to free himselfe from your faithlesse doubts and dangers in hell but to free all his elect from thence and to subiect all things and enemies and so the strength and rage of hell and Satan vnder his feet If the trueth of God bind you to beleene that an Angell comming downe from heauen cast the Dwell into the bottomlesse pit and there bound him and loosed him as he was prescribed doth not your faith serue you to confesse that all power in heauen and in earth and much more in hell was giuen vnto Christ and that as well ouer rebellious Diuels as obedient Angels who adored him when he was brought into the world and serued him the time that he was in the world and are not stronger then his humane nature but receaue power from him as being personally God and Man these be the grounds not of faith but of ignorance which faile vnder your feete and shew that you build on Sand which hath no force when it commeth to be sifted From the grounds of faith which are none you come to the circumstances of the place it selfe and say they are all against me but I that hitherto haue tried you so false conceited in euery thing will not trust you to be true-tonged in this whatsoeuer you pretend These wordes of Dauid thou wilt not leaue my soule in hades nor suffer thine holy one to see corruption I said conteined a speciall prerogatiue verified in none but in the true Messias and Sauiour of the world To this you replie I denie it heere is no such prerogatiue mentioned It is all one skill in you to denic trueths and affirme falsehoodes you cannot doe the one without the other And heere your fansies thrung so fast one on another that they thrust ech other out of doores The maine scope of Saint Peters purpose in this place you doe not or will not vnderstand and on that error you build the rest of your reasons which are all erroneous like the roote whence they come Saint Peter you say intending onely in all this speach to shew the Iewes that this Iesus whom they had slame was not now dead but risen againe plainely graunteth all this matter of Dauid as well as of Christ. Heere are two monstrous falseshoods on which all the rest of your running reasons are setled It had been to small purpose for Peter to prooue to the Iewes that Christ by them slaine was raised from the graue and restored to life if there he had rested or intended that onely as you stifly auouch what could he by this haue inferred more touching Christ then any man might likewise of Lazarus whom Christ raised from the graue This therefore was not Peters scope he had an higher and farder reach in that long Sermon of his which he throughly expresseth afterward and that was Therefore let all the house of Israel know for a suertie that God hath made him both LORD AND CHRIST this Iesus I say whom ye haue crucified To conclude this Peter doth not reason so weakely as you imagine Christs soule is ioined againe to his body though they crucified him ergo Christ is the true Messias and Sauiour of the world This were like one of your reasons which haue nor head nor taile But Peter endued with the holy Ghost reasoned verie truely and sufficiently and in effect thus The prophesie of Dauid which neuer was nor could be fulfilled in any no not in Dauid himselfe but onely in the Messias that his soule should not be left in hades nor his flesh see corruption is fulfilled in Christ whom you crucified he is risen Lord of all his enemies in his owne person the sorrowes of death being losed before him he is ascended vp
by the infinite dignitie of his person able to support the one and abolish the other and that the rather because euerie part of Christes manhood was holie and vndefiled and so by the rule of Gods iustice no part of him could be pressed with spirituall and eternall death Which is a plaine proofe that the guilt of our sinnes tooke not hold on him For then as well spirituall as eternall death which both are due to sinne must haue fastned on Christ which we see to be false yea the death of the bodie could not wrest his soule from him but he must lay it downe of himselfe And if the desert of a corporall death did not binde him how should the guilt of eternall death be due to him which was the ââ¦ust wages of our sinne but no way due to his person since he did assume our sinnes to cleere vs from them and not to subiect himselfe to the guilt or filth of our sinne though he were content to make full satisfaction for them but not to defile himselfe with any pollution of them How could he be by God properly and truly punished and cursed for sinne but that he was sinfull hatefull Nay how could he either clense vs or reconcile vs to God if he were sinfull hatefull to God as well as we As we had Christ for our Redeemer because we weââ¦e hated of God for sin so if you bring Christ within the same danger displeasure with God he must haue another to mediate to God for him God respecteth not those whom he hateth nor heareth any that is sinful without some other to propiââ¦e for him And where you quote Scriptures to vphold your wicked follies and phrases they prooue the cleane contrarie The soule that sinneth the same shall dic saith God by Ezechiel But Christes soule did not die either by want of grace or losse of glorie which are the deaths proper to sinners Christes soule therefore by the verie place which you cite was not sinnefull Shail nââ¦t the Iudge of all the world doe right saide Abraham to God What right is there ment but that God will not destroy the righteous with the wicked as Abrahams words before import Since then Christ was not destroââ¦ed either in soule or bodie but by death made conquerer of death and a Sauiour to all his what a venemous mouth haue you to match him with the wicked or to make thââ¦s destruction And heere the Reader may obserue how religiously you wrest the Scriptures to reproch the Sonne of God and where you can by no sufficient testimonie prooue Christ to haue beene sinnefull or hatefull to God as you dââ¦fend when he died for our sinnes you sort him with the reprobate and damned and then ââ¦ge the Scriptures against him that directly speake of them I wish you to leaue this lewd deuotion and not to thinke to shift off all this with a pretended imputation Our sinnes God did impute that is impose on Christ for ââ¦e bââ¦re them in his bodie on the ââ¦ee but this was right with God because Christ was both willing and able to beare them and an honour to the humane nature of Christ to be made l ord ouer all his enimies for the short affliction which he suffered at their hands and Sauiour of all beleeuers for the submission and obedience which he performed on the crosse in which Gods exceeding mercy towards vs and loue towards him did most manifestly appeare Did not God then hate our sinnes when he punished his owne Sonne for them If that ground of Christian religion could haue contented you that God throughly hated our sinnes which Christ assumed and yet so loued the person assuming them that the fauour he bare to the one ouer-rulââ¦d his anger due to the other and therefore after sharpe chastisement on the person least wee should thinke our transgressions to be lightly regarded with God and yet such as the sufferer willingly reââ¦ued to maintaine the iustice of his Father exalted him with infinite honour and gaue him all power in earth and heauen and made him onely Lord ouer all both men and Angels If this confession of true Religion had pleased you you neuer needed to haue defiled your pen with these sinfull hatefull and accursââ¦d termes But haââ¦ing itching eares and humorous heads you measure the greatest mysteries of our saluation by the similitude and proportion of humane reason and actions and thence deââ¦iue according to your fantasies that which Scriptures and Fathers doe vtterly disclaime It is written God sent his Sonne in the likenesse of sinfull flââ¦sh for sinne and condemned sinne in his flesh in which likenesse he stoode before God The Scripture teacheth that Christ was made like to his brethren in all things and did partake with them in flesh and bloud but the same Scripture addeth without sinne So that the likenesse of sinfull flesh excludeth all touch or taint of our sinne though it admit the likenesse of our flesh in Christ. And indeede betweene his and ours there was no difference saue the corruption of sinne which dwelleth in ours and did not in his You doe therefore learnedly collect out of the Apostles words that where he saith Christ was sent in the likenesse of sinfull flesh for that he had true flesh and no sinne you make Christ to be defiled and accursed with sinne for hauing the likenesse of our flesh But the Syriacke translation saith God condemned sinne in Christes flesh The condemning of sinne in the flesh of Christ was the cleansing and abolishing of sinne by the body of Christ which the Apostle calleth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã the destroying and taking away of sinne by the sacrifice of himââ¦elfe The text doth notsay that God condemned Christ for sinne but contrarie that God condemned sin that is pardoned the guilt weakned the power remooued the sting and abandoned the memoriall of all our sinnes for the obedience and patience which Christ shewed in his flesh So that it is you and not the Apostle nor the Syriacke translator which would faine bring Christ within the compasse of condemnation for sinne where they say quite otherwise that not hee but sinne was condemned that is destroyed in or by his flesh Chrysostome saith rightly Thou seest sinne euery where condemned not the flesh which was crouned and obtained iudgement against sinne And Austen taketh libertie to expound the Text against your Syriacke translation By the similitude of sinfull flesh saith he which was Christes God condemned sinne in the flesh of sinne which was ours God made him sinne for vs that we might be made the rightcousnesse of God in him Other men read the Scriptures to learne thence all thanks submission and seruice to the Sonne of God for his vnspeakeable loue and mercie towards vs in taking the burden of our sinnes and laying it on his owne shoulders You thresh and winnow the Scriptures to catch vp chaffe
sayth d 1. Tim. 5. I charge thee in the presence of God and of the Lord Iesus Christ and of the elect Angels that thou obserue these things without preiudice or partiaââ¦tie And againe we are made a e â⦠Cor. 4. spectacle to the world to angels and to men And likewise s The woman ought to haue power on her head because of the Angels that is she ought to couer her head in signe of subiection to the power of the man because the Angels beholde this as all other actions of men either in the Church or in the world From this power to heare and see what is sayd and done on the face of the earth euen in the secret and darke places thereof the diuell is not excluded in that he is an Angel though fallen from heauen and cast vnto the earth yet an g Reuel 12. accuser and so a beholder of good whom he impugneth and of badde ouer whom he ruleth And what maruell that Angels who by their creation excell vs in power and might haue this incident to their condition when as men God opening their eyes can see things done in heauen and earth which naturally they can by no meanes see When Dothan was besieged by the Aramites to apprehend Elizeus and his seruant was afrayd at the sight of them the Prophet encouraging his seruant sayd h 2. Kings 5. Feare not for they that be with vs are moe then they that be with them and prayed God to open his seruants eyes which the Lord did and h 2. Kings 5. he looked and beholde the mountaine was full of ââ¦ierie charets and horses round about Elizeus i Mark 1. Assoone as Iohn was come out of the water where he baptized Iesus in Iordan Iohn saw the heauens cleaue asunder and the Holy Ghost descending on Christ like a Doue Steuen likewise not only had his face changed in the Councell k Acts 7. as the face of an Angell but looking stedfastly into heauen saw the glory of God and Iesus standing at the right hand of God Which though the incredulous Iewes did no wayes beleeue but stopped their eares when they heard him so say and ranne vpon him all at once and cast him out of the citie and stoned him as a blasphemous liar yet can he be no Christian Christ might see what he would that doubteth whether Steuen saw this with his bodily eyes or no the Scripture being so resolute for it how impossible soeuer it be to our eyes This power to beholde things farre distant notwithstanding all impediments interiected not onely Christ had when he would as appeareth by his words to Nathaniel l Ioh. 1. v. 48. Before Philip called thee being vnder the figge tree I saw thee for which Nathaniel acknowledged him to be the Sonne of God but he promised his that they should see greater things m Vers. 50. Because I sayd to thee I saw thee vnder the figge tree beleeuest thou Thou shalt see greater things then these n Vers. 51. Verily verily I say vnto you henceforth you shall see the heauens open and the Angels of God ascending and descending vpon the Sonne of man Since then Christ could and o Luke 10. vers 18. did see Satan like lightning fall downe from heauen I make no doubt but he could open his owne eyes to see the remote parts of the earth when it pleased him though vsually he did it not by reason he needed it not for he knew all things and euen what was in man which the Angels doe not and therefore needed not any such vse of his eyes but when he saw his time which in this case he might like lest the dââ¦uell should despise him as hauing greater power and cleerer sight then Christ did or could shew himselfe to haue For which cause also Christ would stand on the pinnacle of the Temple without the diuels helpe to let him know that he wanted not power to doe greater things then the diuell vrged him vnto but onely that hee would take his owne time and do nothing at the diuels instigation or motion nor repugnant to the will and pleasure of God A third way the diuell had if Christ would permit it to set these things before our Sauiours eyes Satan is able not onely to assume what shapes he will and to transforme himselfe into an Angell of light but also to make specters and shewes of any thing in the aire and to deceiue the eyes of men when he is suffered by God so to do which not onely experience of all ages but the Scriptures themselues confirme wherein all p 2. Thess. 2. false woonders and signes are ascribed to the operation of Satan By this meanes Simon the Sorcerer so bewitched the whole citie of Samaria that q Acts 8. they all from the least to the greatest gaue heed vnto him and sayd This man is the great power of God The Sorcerers of Pharaoh r Exod 7. turned their rods into serpents and changed the riuers into r Exod 7. bloud and brought s Exod. 8. frogs vpon the land of Egypt as Moses and Aaron did and other miracles could the diuell haue done as we see by killing of Iobs t Iob. 1. sheepe and seruants with fire from heauen and the u Iob. 2. smiting of Iobs bodie with sore boiles had not the hand of the Almightie stopped him and thereby made the Sorcerers confesse that x Exod. 8. v 19 there was the finger of God It was therefore no hard thing for Satan to frame the appearances of kingdomes and cities and shew the similitudes of them from euery part of the earth since they are but the figures and semblances of things that we see with our eyes which Angels good and badde haue in their power when they are sent of God to do his will Howbeit Satan could not delude the eyes of Christ without his knowledge and leaue though Satan did not so thinke And therefore all these wayes being possible yet I thinke the second most agreeable to the words and see no cause why we should measure Christs sight when pleased him by mans reason when as he did so many things heere on earth aboue all humane power and reason For he often y Marke 4. walked on the sea and z Iohn 20. came and stood in the midst of his disciples when the doores were shut and made the ship that receiued him in the sea of Tiberias a Iohn 6. to be by and by at the land whither they went besides many thousand miracles which he wrought with his word and hand whiles he conuersed amongst men Of which if no Christian may make any question why flie you to imaginations or visions so long as Christ had power enough with his eyes to behold whatsoeuer Satan could shew him It was Satans act you will say to shew them and not Christes Satan as an angell might see
they be neuer freed from that horrible confusion in which they lie And therefore they scare the place prouided for them and besought Christ neither k Luc. 8. to send them into the deepe and bottomlesse pit nor to l Matth. 8. torment them besore their time Neither was there onely transgression reprobation and confusion in the place of heauen where the Angels sinned and whence they were cast but of the blessed Angels S. Iohn saith that one of them m Reuel 20. came downe from heauen hauing the key of the bottomlesse pit and a great chaine in his hand who tooke the Dragon which is the diuell and bound him and cast him into the bottomlesse pit and shut him vp and sealed vpon him And were it doubtfull of Angels how they could retaine the measure of their brightnesse and blessednesse in the place of hell yet heare we Dauid confesse of God himselfe and of his spirit If I ascend to heauen thou art there if I get downe to hell thou art there So that the very fountaine of all holinesse and happinesse is in heauen earth and hell and yet the states of these three places are not confounded because the perfection of all goodnesse is present in euery of them The goodnesse and glory of God is not so fastned vnto places that either Paradise or heauen did priuilege men or Angels from sinne as heauen did not the diuels nor hell it selfe can hinder the happinesse of the blessed Angels when they are sent with power from God to execute his pleasure And yet this doth not confound the distinction of places or states in heauen or hell but that heauen is now the place where the brightnesse of Gods glory is reuealed to his Saints besides their internall and continuall vision of God which maketh them most happie and neuer leaueth them whethersoeuer they goe And therefore the Angels that sinned were cast thence that they should not defile the place of Gods presence with their wickednesse and hell is likewise the prepared mansion for the diuels where vengeance from God is powred on them and greater shall be when after iudgement they shall be closed in perpetuall prison though till that day some of them be suffered to beare rule in the aire and to worke in the children of disobedience for the triall of the saints and farder setting forth os Gods most glorious wisedome power and rightcousnesse n Defenc. pag. 119. li. ââ¦7 Lastly the true ioyes of heauen may be out of the locall heauen as when the glorious Angels haue bene and tarried some while here on earth with men Yet did they neuer for a moment want the toyes and glory of heauen From Angels endued with inward and heauenly light power holinesse and happinesse and by grace euerlastingly confirmed therein no argument can be drawen to our weake sinfull and variable condition neither doe we dispute of Gods power what he can doe but of his will and ordinance whereby he hath appointed heauen to be his seat that is the place where his glory is ãâã ãâã and eternall and perfect blessednesse bestowed on all the inhabitants thereof be they men or Angels And though the Angels whethersoeuer they goe or whatsoeuer they doe retaine the cleere sight of God and the perfection of their ãâã all happinesse yet that is no proofe that we liuing here in mortall and miserable flesh can haue that on earth which they haue For example take some parts or consequents of that heauenly ioy and blisse which the Angels being heere on earth keep immutable and you shall soone see how grossely you erre in communicating their glory to men yet dwelling in houses of clay The Angels of God ãâã here on earth can neither erre sinne nor die they can feele no necessity infirmity nor miserie they need not eat sleepe nor rest they are indued with light that cannot be obscured with holinesse that cannot be defiled with ioy that cannot be diminished with power that cannot be resisted by men or Diuels Can these things be attributed to mortall men here on earth without open and palpable heresie Wherefore it is an erroneous and presumptuous inference that o Defenc pa. 120. ãâã 2. If Angels may enioy heauen really being in the world that men heere liuing may doe the like p Defenc. pag. 120. 3. It is possible for Gods goodnesse to communicate some reall foretasie thereof vnto some blessed men also A taste of glory which neither continueth nor satisfieth can not be called heauen which is the perfect and perpetuall fulnesse of all kinde of blisse and want of all kinde of miserie S. Peter teacheth vs that God q 1. Pet. 1. begetieth vs into a liuely hope to an inheritance incorruptible vndefiled and vnchangeable reserued in the heauens for vs who are by the power of God kept by faith vnto saluation readie to le shewed in the last time If the taste of glory which you talke of be not immortall immutable vndefiled with any defect or miserie it may not be called heauen nor be sayd to be the inheritance reserued for vs in heauen And therefore though some blessed men haue had a sight of some glory which you call a taste thereof as Moses Esay Steuen and others yet that doth not proue them to haue beene really in the ioyes of heauen How osten is it written of the Israelites that they saw the glory of the Lord and yet they were ouerthrowen in the wildernesse r Exodus 24. ver 16. ãâã 17. The glory of the Lord saith Moses abode vpon mount Sinai and the sight of the glory of the Lord was like a consuming fire on the top of the mountaine in the eies of the children of Israel So when Aaron offered his first offering for his Priesthood and blessed the people t Leu t. 9. v. 23 The glorie of the Lord appeared to all the people of whom God saith u Numb 14. vers 22. All these men which haue seene my glory my miracles which I did in Egypt and in the wildernesse and haue tempted me these ten times certainly they shall not see the land whereof I sware to their Fathers When Salomon had builded and consecrated the temple with praier and sacrifice x ãâã ãâã The glory of the Lord ãâã house so that the Priests could not enter into the house of the Lord because the glory ãâã ãâã Lord had filled the Lords house And when all the children of Israel saw the fire and the glory of the Lord come downe vpon the house they bowed themselues with their faces to the earth vpon the pauement and worshipped and praised the Lord. I trust the King the Priests and the People were not all in the ioies of heauen and yet they all with their eies saw the glory of God there presented before them and such as were religious and obedient saw it to their exceeding ioy y Defenc. pag. 120. li. 5. That God doth
man compassed with sinne is able to see He saw posteriora Dei the backe parts of God for so God sayd vnto him y Exo. 33. v. 22 I will couer thee with mine hand whiles I passe by z 23. After I will take away mine hand and thou shalt see mine hinder parts but my face shalt thou not see Whereupon S. Austen sayth very aduisedly a August de Symbolo aâ⦠Catethââ¦menos li ãâã ca. 3. Ipsa sunt illa posteriora Dei Christus Dei Those hinder parts of God were the Christ of God Which exposition Christ confirmeth when he sayth b Iohn 8. Your Father Abraham reioyced to see my day and he saw it and was glad Other shewes of Gods glorie some others had as Elias in the Caue the People in the Wildernesse Salomon in his Temple and Iohn Baptist in Iordan when he saw the Holy Ghost descend like a Doue and abide on Christ but none of those was the sight of Gods face which no mortall man can see and liue And that is the true and essentiall ioy of heauââ¦n to which all other degrees of perfection and happinesse are consequent c August dâ⦠ciuitate Dei li. 16. ââ¦a 9. Videns Deum quod erit in sine praemium omnium sanctorum The sight of God sayth Austen shall in the end be the reward of all his saints Which doctrine he learned from S. Paul and S. Iohn the Apostles of Christ and they from their Master d 1. Cor. 13. Then we shall see him face to face and then shall I know sayth S. Paul euen as I am knowen When Christ shall appeare sayth S. Iohn e 1. Iohn 3. we shall be like to him for we shall see him as he is And so our Sauiour f Iohn 14. I will loue him that loueth me and shew mine owne selfe vnto him g Defenâ⦠ãâã 120. li. 15. Secondly it is true the Apostle sayth that here we walke by faith and liue by hope yet some rare exceptions do not ouerthrow this generall course The Scriptures are true with you saue where you list to make exceptions of your doctrine as not conteined in them nor agreeing with them No man in this life Christ Iesus only excepted had euer any such vision of God or possession and fruition of his heauenly kingdome that he did not walke by faith and liue by hope Paul was h 2. Cor. 12. taken vp into the third heauen and heard words not lawfull or not possible for man to vtter Did he then cease to walke by faith who after and alwayes prosessed of himselfe i 1 Cor. 13. Now I know in part but then I shall know as I am knowen And including himselfe with the rest k 2. Coâ⦠5. We walke by faith not by sight And ââ¦xactly speaking of himselfe l Galat. â⦠That I now liue in the flââ¦sh I liue by the fââ¦ith of the Sonne of God m Phil. 3. that I may know him and the vertue of his resurrection and fellowship of his afflictions not as though I had alreadie attained to it but I endeuour my selfe to that which is before and follow hard towards the marke for the price of the high calling of God in Iesus Christ. If you dare defend that Paul in Paradise did see God face to face then may you say that at that time he walked not by faith but by sight but if that be a plaine errour then Paul as yet attained not the sight of Gods face nor the crowne of righteousnesse layed vp for him which should be giuen him by the iust Iudge at that day and consequently neither faith nor hope ceased in Paul notwithstanding his being in the third heauen The like I say of S. Iohn who n Reuââ¦l 4. saw a dore open in heauen and was willed to come vp thither and of all the Saints that either talked with God or had any manifest reuelation of his glory whiles here they liued The transfiguring of Christ in the mount was to him not only a ioyfull hope but a reall taste of his very heaueââ¦ly ioyes That transfiguration of Christ whether it were for himselfe or for the confirmation of his Disciples the Scriptures doe not precisely determine When a voice came from heauen to Christ in the audience of all the people Christ answered This voice came not because of me but for your sakes S. Peter who was one of those Disciples that saw him transfigured writeth thus of it o 2. Pet. 1. We followed not deceiuable fables but with our eyes we saw his Maiestie for he receiued of God the Father honour and glory when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory This is my beloued Sonne in whom I am well pleased This voice which was greater glory than his transfiguration came in respect of them to confirme them in their faith and obedience to the Sonne of God then incarnate and yet to assure their eyes by sight as well as their ââ¦ares by that voice he was transfigured before them but this transfiguration did not frââ¦e Christ from feare sorrow shame violence and death which followed and therefore this was not heauen to him nor all the glory prepared for him but an outward shew thereof to establish rather his Disciples then himselfe For his soule within him had here on earth greater glorie continually then a transitorie change of his body as namely the personall vnion with God which no creature man nor Angell in earth or heauen had or hath besides him the fulnesse of Gods spirit resting on him by which he knew all the counsell and will of God and all the secrets of mens hearts power ouer all flesh and command ouer all creatures which neither Saint nor Angell in heauen hath In the glory of his body Moses and Steuen did here on earth in part communicate with him P 2. Cor. 3. Moses face did shine when he knew it not The children of Israel could not behold the face of Moses for the glorie of his countenance which so glittered that the children of Israel were afrayd to come neere him he forced to put a vaile vpon his face when they spake with him and yet Moses q Exod. 34. ver 29. wist not that the skin of his face shone bright And likewise r Acts 6. all that sate in the councell where Steuen was conuented condemned looking stedfastly on him saw his face as the face of an Angell that is bright and glorious though Steuen knew it not no more than Moses for ought that the Scripture noteth of him saue that in the end Steuen s Acts 7. looking stedfastly into heauen saw the glory of God and Iesus standing at the right hand of God But the inward and continuall glorie of Christes soule heere on earth was proper to him no man nor angell matching him therein How come you then to attribute heauen vnto Christ for the
vpon the expectation of Christs comming and differreth the crowne of glory ãâã that time let vs be content with the boundes which God hath appointed vs that the soules of the godly hauing ended their warfare of this life depart into an happy rest where with a blessed ioy they looke for the fruition of the promised glory and so all things stand suspended till Christ our redeemer appeare Then none of these writers old nor new so conceaued or so expounded Christes wordes as you doe that all his Saints doe locally accompany him and generally wheresoeuer he abideth or whithersoeuer he goeth The Fathers all with one voice I may truely affirme teach and beleeue euen that Christ after death went no whither but where his faithfull and holy seruants were yea and there remained till his resurrection To which consent of men some where you ascribe exceeding much Your assertions all the Fathers with one consent refuse to which agreement of learned and auncient writers I confesse I yeeld very much when there is no expresse Scripture against it alleaged and vrged by some of themselues as in all the cases where I forsake them there is but what is that to your nouelties who neither in the first nor second question yeeld any thing to their iudgements and censures put them altogether That the soules of the faithfull before the comming of Christ were in Abrahams bosome our Sauiour first deliuered and no father that I know departeth from it but where Abrahams bosome was whether in earth or elsewhere and whether it were a skirt of hell or no till Christ transferred them thence to Paradise of this some fathers diuersely thinke and diuersely speake And but that Saint Austin learnedly discusseth and resolueth this point that Abrahams bosome could be no member nor part of hell since this was a secret habitation of rest and happinesse which the Scripture neuer affirmeth of hell but calleth it a place of torment it would be hard for you or any of your crue to say where Abrahams bosome was That Christ after death went to the place where the faithfull were in expectation and desire of his comming to redeeine the world the Fathers affirme but that he went no whither else or that hec went not to the place of the damned as well to discharge and release his members thence that is from all feare and daunger thereof as to destroy the power of the diuell ouer all his and to triumph ouer the force and furie of Satan in his owne person that euery knee of things vnder the earth should bow to him as well as of things in heauen and earth in this you vtterly mistake the consent of the Fathers which you so much talke of and shew that you neuer came neere the reading of them howsoeuer you presume to affirme what you list of them And least I should carie the Reader without cause to rest on my word as you would haue him doe on yours he shall heare the Fathers speake their owne mindes and so the better iudge of your abusing them Ireneus Dauid said prophesying this of Christ thou hast deliuered my soule from the nethermost hell Cyprian When in Christs presence hell was broken open captiuitie made captiue his conquering soule being presented to his fathers sight returned without delay to his bodie Lactantius or as some thinke Venantius o The darkenesse fled at the brightnesse of Christ the grosse mist of eternall night vanished Hinc tumuluÌ repetens post tariââ¦ra carne resumpta belliger ad coelos ampla trophea refers Then after thy being in hell thou going to thy graue resuming thy bodie as a warrier thou barââ¦st to heauen a ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã CONQVEST ouer hell Athanasius ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã who euer went to hell besides the sonne which rose from the dead at the sight of whom ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã the keepers of hell gates shrââ¦ncke for feare Yea HADES HELL or the Diuell at the sight of him ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã was afraid and amazed saying Who is this that descendeth hither with so great power and authoritie Who is this that teareth open the brazen gates of hell breaketh the bars of Adamant Who is this that being crucisied is not conquered by me who am death Who is this that looseth their bandes whom I conquered Who is this that by his owne death destroyeth me that am death Eusebius To him only were the gates of death opened him only the keepers of hell gates seeing shranke for feare and the chiefe ruler of death the diuell knowing him alone to be his Lord rose out of his loftie throne and spake to him fearefully with supplication intreatie Eusebius called Emisenus The Lord descending darkenesse trembled at the suddaine sight of vnknowen light Aâ⦠praefulgidum fidus caeloruÌ Tartareae caliginis profunda viderunt And the deepes of hellish darkenesse saw the most bright starre of heauen Deposito quidâ⦠corpore imas atque abdit as Tartari sedes filius hominis penetrauit the Sonne of man laying aside his body pearced the lowest and secret seates of Tartarus or of the dungeon of hell Hilarie The powers of heauen doe incessantly glorifie the Sonne of God sor conquering death breaking the gates of hell In hell he killed death Gregorie Nazianzene Going to the gates of hell all couered with darknesse thou shalt pearce hell with a sharpe speare and shalt deliuer all thou alone being free and shalt besides haue the victory ouer thine enemies ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã valiantly SVBDVING HELL the SERPENT and DEATH Chryââ¦ostome Descendente in tenebrosam inferoruÌ caligineÌ Domino ettam illic tunâ⦠ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã dubio dies splendidissimus fuit vbi seruator illuxit tenuit in illo noctis horrore inuiolabilem Maiestatis suae splendorem The Lord descending into the darke mââ¦st of hell euen there no doubt then was a most cleere day where our Sauiour shined In that horror of night he held the brightnesse of his Maiestie inuiolable Ierom. Pro vita populi mortuus non es derelictus in Tartaro Dying for the life of thy people thou wast not left in hell And againe Christ dââ¦stroyed and brake open the closed places of hell and put the diuell that had power ouer death from his kingdome and Dominion Augustine If the holy Scripture had sayd that Christ after death came to Abrahams bosome not naming hell and the sorrowes thereof I maruaile if any man would haue durst to affirme that Christ descended into hell But because euident testimonies of the Scripture mention hell and the sorowes thereof no cause is occurrent why our Sauior should be beleeued to haue come thither but to saue from those paines And againe There is a lower hell ââ¦hither the dead go whence God would deliuer our soules by sending his sonne thither For therefore Christ came euen
God and chiefly Christs soule when it descended to hell not only to be brought thence but euen there by gods hand assisting to destroy the strength of Satans kingdome and to triumph ouer all the powers and Principalities of darkenesse If those wordes did alwaies import a present possession and fruition of heauenly glorie then could Dauid with no truth haue spoken them of himselfe so long before his death when as yet no part of Gods promises to him touching his kingdome were perfourmed But the soules of the faithfull are alwaies in the hand of God whiles heere they are protected by him and after this life receaued in rest though they come not as yet to be inuested with the fulnesse of heauenly glory Yea the words properly pertaining to our Sauiours person and condition after death ` Thou wilt not leaue or forsake my soule in hell doe shew that Christs soule was then in Gods hands and compassed round with the power and glory of God when hell and Satan trembled at his presence and were both vanquished and spoiled by him Your adding that this sentence may be fitly applied to Christ prooueth nothing For though I haue no doubt but Christs soule was with farre greater honour and fauour ioy and blisse receaued into the hands of God to whom it was committed then the soules of all his Saints yet that doth not prooue his present entraunce after death into the glory of heauen and continuance in the same except you will say that at his resurrection and till his Ascension his soule was out of his Fathers hands because during that time it was on earth and not in heauen which were a strange position in diuinity The soules of the righteous were in the hands of God long before Christs comming as the wise man witnesseth and yet were they not in the glory of heauen but in Abrahams bosome as our Sauiour teacheth And so the wise man expoundeth himselfe adding No torment shall touch them they are in peace and in the time of their visitation they shall shine reseruing them to a time appointed when glory shal be reuealed on them though in the meane whiles their spirits were kept in rest and ioy vnder the mighty hand of God The Thieues being in Paradise with Christ the same day that he died concludeth no such thing as you conceaue For first no words there or els where euince that Christ spake this of his humane nature Saint Austen resolueth The sense is much easier and freer from all ambiguities if Christ be vnderstood to haue said this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise not of his manhood but of his godhead And in his 111. Tractate vpoÌ Iohn vpholding the same exposition addeth He that said to the thiefe painfully hanging yet healthfully confessing this dââ¦y shalt thou be with me in Paradise according to his manhood had his soule that daââ¦e in hââ¦ll his flesh ãâã the graue but according to his godhead vndoubtedlie he was in Paradise Titus Bishop of Bostra in Arabia somewhat elder then Austen sheweth how these words may be verified of either of Christs natures How was this promise of our Lord made to the thiefe this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise performed Christ takââ¦n dââ¦wne from the crosse was in hell according to his soule and neuerthelesse by the power of his diuinity brought the Thiefe into Paradise Happily he first caried the beleeuing Thiefe to Paradise before he descended to hell Damascen is of Austens mind The same Christ is adored in heauen as God together with the Father and with the holy Ghost and he as man lay in the Sepulchre with his body and abode in hell with his soule and gaue entrance to the thiefe into Paradise his diuinity which cannot be comprehended in any place euery where accompanying him And so is Euthymius How said Christ this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise because as God who filleth all places he was euery where at one instant in the sepulchre in hell and in Paradise and in heauen But admit the words to be ment of Christs humane soule what reason call you this Christs soule was in Paradise that very day that he died ergo neither that day nor any day els before his resurrection his soul did or could descend to hell You must amend these reasons before any man will yeeld you to haue reason or sense Christ might that very day that he went to Paradise subdue and subiect all power in hell vnto himsââ¦lfe he might doe it the next day he might doe it the third day when he rose from the dead the time is not the thing we striue for which we must leaue to God but the reall and actuall performance of the Apostles words He spoiled powers and principalities and made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in himselfe which in other words Peter expressed when he said Christs soule was not left or forsaken in hell but God raised him ââ¦p loosing the sorowes of death or hell that euery knee of things vnder earth should ââ¦ow vnto him as well as of things in heauen and earth and that euerie tongue euen of the damned and Diuels for there are none other vnder earth should confesse either willingly or constrainedly Iesus Christ to be Lord vnto the glory of God the Father This conquest ouer hell and Satan being acknowledged whereby all power in heauen and earth and consequently in hell conteined in the earth was yeelded vnto Christs manhood after his death and before or at his resurrection we shall not need to be curious about the time and manner thereof The compilers of the centuries at Magdeburge doe well admonish Descendisse Christum in infernum articulus sidei est verum quanam ratione ibi omnia sunt gesta non est expresse traditum That Christ descended to hell is an article of the faith but in what sort all things there were donne is not expressely deliuered Happilie it is enough for vs to hââ¦ld the generall and a more exact declaration of this mysterie wee shall heare in another life The eternall and generall ordinance of God is shewed Luc. 16. to be such that none can goe out of heauen downe to hell nor come from hell vp to heauen You boldly presume after your maner that Abrahams bosome was heauen of which many learned men do make great doubt For if the soules of the righteous were in heauen before Christes death and biââ¦th then were they equall vnto the elect Angels before the resurrection which Christ saith shall be when they are the children of the resurrection and so not before And how were the wordes of our Sauiour true which he spake in his life time No man ascendeth vp to heauen but he that descended from heauen the Sonne of man which is in heauen If all the Saints deceased were in heauen or how had
after his resurrection all power in heauen and earth that is in all places and ouer all things created is giuen vnto me Since then without question Christ had the keyes as well of death and hell as of heauen and so that sense of his words is most true let vs see which of our expositions hath best reason When Iohn for feare fell as dead at Christs feete would Christ to comfort Iohn in that plight say no more but that he himselfe was once dead and now aliue and had power to die no more as you expound Christs words how could this strengthen or restore Iohn that was euen dead for feare or did Christ rather encourage Iohn not to feare without cause seeing he himselfe not onely was risen from the dead but had all power ouer death and hell that is the keyes of both to dispose of ech mans life and Soule at his pleasure when therefore Christ that had all power of life and death Saluation and damnation laid his right hand on Iohn to protect him and bad him not feare but write the things which he saw had not Iohn iust cause to cast away all feare and cheerefully to obey the voice of him that was so able and ready to rescue him from all feare and danger whatsoeuer Christs power ouer death you will say was enough to preserue Iohns life and therefore mention of the key of hell was superfluous Iohn was to see and write the things that were and after should be in heauen earth and hell as is euident in his Reuelations yea the opening and shutting of the bottomelesse pit the chaining of Satan there the comming of the Locusts and the beast from thence and the lake of fire and brimstone euerlastingly burning there and who should be throwen into it were to be reuealed vnto him Lest therefore the sight of these things should amaze Iohn or the reporting of them should want credit with vs Christ did professe which is most true that he had the keyes that is all power euen ouer these secret and fearefull places so that Iohn should neither shrinke at the vision nor we distrust the Relation of them And though my reason of mentioning here the keyes of hell be such as you shall neuer counteruaile yet doe I not runne proudly and peremptorily as you doe in mine owne conceits I haue the iudgement of the best Interpreters old and new that haue intermedled with the opening of these reuelations Andreas Arch Bishop of the same Caesaria that Saint Basil was and within 600. yeeres after Christ though you skornfully reiect him as you doe that venerable writer Bede expounding these words of Christ I haue the keyes of death and of Hades saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã that is of the death of the Body and of the Soule Primasius expoundeth them thus I haue the keyes of death and hell idest Diaboli totius corporis eius that is ouer the diuell and all his body or societie The exposition of the Apocalyps extant in Saint Austens works thus I haue the keyes of death and Hell because he that beleeueth and is baptised is deliuered from death and from hell Haymo thus By the name of the keyes is shewed Christs eternall power by death the diuell is vnderstood by whose enuy death came into the world And by hell his members that shall come to the torments of hell Lyra. I haue the keyes of death and of hell that is power to deliuer thence the iust which Christ did in his Resurrection and to inclose there the wicked which he shall chiefly doe in the last iudgement Of our new writers Bullingere Christ then hath the keyes of death and hell because whom he will he deliuereth from the perpetuall damnation of death and whom he will he suffereth iustly to remaine in that perill of damnation Christ hath the supreme gouernment of the house or kingdome of God to quicken whom he will and to draw them from hell and damnation and whom he will damne with his iust iudgement to destroy For he hath most full power ouer death and hell He conquered and disabled both as it is Osee. 13. and 1. Corinth 15. Aretius He that resembled the Sonne of Man in the Apocalyps said I haue the keyes of hell and death hoc est in damnatos damnandos damnatorum loca that is ouer those that are damned or shall be damned and ouer the places of the damned Chytreus Christ deliuereth his Church from the captiuitie of death and hell casteth the wicked into the Dungeon of hell and of eternall death For he hath the keyes that is most full power ouer death and hell Sebastian Meyer whom Marlorate followeth I haue the keyes of death and hell that is power to pardon sinnes which being abolished both death and hell are depriued of their strength Osiander I haue the keyes of death and hell that is it is in my hand to kill and quicken to damne and sauc These men had both learning and reason to say as they did neither will any pick them ouer the pearch as you doe Andreas Caesariensis and Bede but he that hath neither Againe one sitteth on a pale horse whose name was death and Hades destruction the world of the dead or the kingdome of death followed after him This in no wise can be hell because the Text addeth power was giuen them to slay with the sword and with famine and with death and with wild beasts Hell slayeth none in that sort these are not the weapons of hell You lacke three Gennets to set your three poppets on horsebacke If by these three destruction the world of the dead the kingdome of death you meane in effect nothing but death as you vse to expound your selfe that is expressed before and Saint Iohn saith Hades followed after him Doth any thing follow after it selfe Againe will you bring your world of the dead that is all the Soules in heauen and hell to ride on horse-backe and that in the shew and shape of one person you would make good dumb shewes you haue such pretie fansies to make death goe first alone and his kingdome to come after him But though you play with Saint Iohns visions you haue no warrant to mistake Saint Iohns words and to muster your owne errors vnder his colours Saint Iohn doth not say that power was giuen to death and Hades to kill with the sword with famine and with death as you dreame but Saint Iohn hauing represented the sword or warre by the red horse verse 4. and famine by the blacke horse verse 5. and all sorts of diseases and pestilences by the pale horse verse 8. he saith power was giuen to them that is to the riders on these three horses to kill the fourth of the earth with warre hunger and sicknesse And because these three come not one after another but when God is greatly prouoked with
other Looke to the Story of Daniell and see whether he doth not say of him selfe that King Nabnchad-nezzar fell vpon his face ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and bowed himselfe to Daniell and willed them to offer Sacrifice and sweete odours vnto him This the King profered by Daniels owne confession and though we doe not doubt but Denââ¦el refused it and otherwise aduised the king yet there is no such thing recorded in the Text. Hence if you will conclude Daniel to be a false Prophet you shall shew your selfe to be a rash false and wicked teacher but if you will excuse him because he was one that feared God and knew his duty though there be no mention made of his deniall what spleene mooueth you to condemne Thaddeus being not him selfe the writer of the Storie and one that was not onely trained vp in Moses Law but a Disciple of Christs and sent by him to preach and which more is endued with the power of the holy Ghost to heale the sicke to plant the Gospell and conuert nations vnto the faith Fourthly I doe not see how it can possibly be true which this Thaddeus saith that Christ ascended vp to his Father with a great multitude seeing the Scripture sheweth how after fortie dayes he ascended in all their sights alone vp to heauen Might Christ doe nothing but he must first acquaint you with it that you take so straight a view who went vp to heauen with him The Apostle noteth that God said of his Sonne when he brought him into the world Let all the Angels of God worship him Can you tell when this was done Christ spoiled powers saith Paul and principalities and made an open shew of them It would trouble you to tell how where and when So Christ ascending on high led captiuitie captiue Who knoweth how farre or how many that he ascended to his Father with a multitude may be referred either to Angels or men If all the Angels adored him when he came into the world what did they when he ascended to heauen Nazianzene saith If Christ ascend to heauen ascend thou with him and ioyne thy selfe to the Angels that accompanie him or receiue him So Cyprian Non indiget vectoribus Angelis sed precedentes subsequentes applaudebant victori Christ ascending needed not Angels to beare him but they going before and following applauded him as a conquerer And Austen Sublatus est Christus in manibus Angââ¦lorum quando assumptus est in caelum non quia si non portarent Angeli ruiturus erat sââ¦d quia obsequebantur Regi Christ was caried vp by the handes of the Angels when he ascended to heauen not that he should haue fallen if he had not beene stayed by Angels but that they might serue their King And touching men why might not Thaddeus speake this of those that were raised out of their graues when Christ rose from the dead since they were partakers of Christs resurrection why should they be reiected from his ascension They rose from the dead not to die againe much lesse to bee left wandring on the earth Ascend before Christ they could not he was in all things as the head to haue the preeminence Then must they ascend with him or after him neither of which is expresly mentioned in the Scriptures It appeareth by Tertullian the Church in his time was opposite to his conceit and made him this answere Our abode after death which there is called sleeping is in Paradise quò iam tunc Patriarchâ⦠Prophetae appendices dominicae resurrectionis ab inferis migrauerunt whither the Patriarkes and Prophets that were dependents on the Lords resurrection pââ¦ssed euen then with him FROM THE PLACES BELOW Cyprian saith of Christ spolians Inferos captiuos praemittens ad superos spoiling the places below and sending the captiues before towards heauen Austen saith Reddunt Infernavictorem superna suscipiunt triumphantem Hell restoreth him a conquerer and heauen receiueth him a Triumpher Where then the Apostle saith that Christ triumphed ouer powers and principalities in his owne person and likewise that he ascended on high leading captiuitie captiue which prooueth his ascent to heauen to be the fulnesse and perfection of his triumph since triumphes amongst mortall men are not secret nor solitarie shall we thinke that Christs triumphant ascension to heauen was the close conueying of him alone into heauen neither Angels nor man attending nor magnifying him or rather as Peter saith he went to heaââ¦n hauing Angels powers and mights subiected to him that is all sorts and orders were they neuer so excellent high or mightie seruing submitting confessing and applauding his humane nature as the subduer of all his enemies and Sauiour of all his Elect Where you would faine perswade the world that the Apostles Creed was not in the primitiue Churches which we haue now yea that at ââ¦irst it had no exact for me at all This is the way to discredite all thinges besides your owne deuices You may say as much against some parts of the Scriptures as you do against some parts of the Creed For the Scriptures themselues were not fully receiued in all places no not in Eusebius time He saith the Epistle of Iames of Iude the second of Peter the second and third of Iohn are contradicted as not written by those Apostles The Epistle to the Hebrewes was for a while contradicted by the Church of Rome not to be Pauls Eusebius report is the truer because the Churches of Syria did not receiue the second Epistle of Peter nor the second and third of Iohn nor the Epistle of Iude nor the Apocalypse as appeareth to this day by the translation of the new Testament into their tongue which wanteth all these bookes as no approoued parts of Scripture The like might be sayd for the Churches of Arabia Will you hence conclude that these parts of Scripture were not Apostolike or that we neede not receaue them now because they were formerly doubted of The Creede we doe not vrge as vndoubtedly written by all the Apostles for then it must needes be Canonicall Scripture but we vrge it as the best and perfectest forme of faith which was deliuered to the Christians at the first planting of the Gospell by the direction and agreement of the Apostles and kept and professed in some of the most famous places which when the Church of Christ had well considered and examined she receiued and preferred before all others Now that this forme of faith which we haue was both in auncient times and diuers places preserued and professed as comming from the first erectors of the Churches you haue seene the testimonies of Cyrill for Ierusalem of Chrysostome for Antioche of Austen for Africa of Ruffine for Aquileia of Venantius for Poyctiers and this very Article he descended to hell is by them witnessed to haue beene then in their Creedes of whom
religious Prince aswell to examine the Scriptures with all diligence as to shew the confession and resolution of Christs Church long before our times that all the world may see I maintaine none other grounds of Faith nor sense of Scripture than haue beene anciently constantly and continually professed and beleeued in the Church of Christ for these fifteene hundred yeeres till this our present Age and the same allowed and ratified by the publike lawes of this Realme which your Maiestie in your most Princely wisdome and courage professe to vpholde and continue God for his holy Names sake blesse your most sacred Maiestie and prosper all your vertuous and Christian cares that as in learning and wisdome in clemencie and pietie he hath made you the Mirrour of this Age so in peace and prosperitie in concord and vnitie in all happinesse and felicitie he may exalt you aboue all your neighbour Princes and hauing vnited the two Realmes of England and Scotland in one subiection vnder your Princely right and regiment he will knit the hearts and hands of both to honour and serue you loue and obey you and your royall issue after you to the worlds end Your Maiesties most humble subiect and seruant THO. WINTON THE CHIEFE RESOLVTIONS OF THIS Suruey THe cleerenes and fulnes of the Scriptures in the worke of our Redemption is exactly to be reuerenced so as no man ought to teach or beleeue any thing touching our redemption by Christ which is not expresly witnessed in the sacred Scriptures much lesse may we distrust the manifest words of the holy Ghost to be impertinent or vnsufficient in declaring the true price and meane of our redemption The maine ground of the Gospell which the Apostles preached the faithfull receiued wherein they continued and whereby they were saued was this That Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures and was buried and rose the third day according to the Scriptures Since then we are reconciled to God by the death of his Sonne we must acknowledge none other death of Christ then that which he suffered in the bodie of his flesh after which he was buried and from which he rose the third day which death the Scriptures most apparently describe to be the death of Christs bodie If we were redeemed by the bloud of Christ and God proposed him to be a Reconciliation through faith in his bloud which was shed for the remission of sinnes we may not presume to appoint a new price of our redemption or new meane of our reconciliation since by the bloud of his crosse Christ hath pacified both the things in earth and things in heauen and the bloud of Iesus Christ cleanseth vs from all sinne The Scriptures doe no where teach nor mention the death of Christs Joule or the death of the damned which is the second death to be needfull for our redemption We must not therefore intrude our selues into Gods seat to ordââ¦ne a new course for mans redemption If the Spirit doe quicken and the iust liue by faith and he that abideth in loue abideth in God who is life it was vtterlie impossible but the soule of Christ in that abundance of Spirit euidence of Faith assurance of Hope and perfection of Loue which he alwayes retained should alwayes liue to God Life and death being opposed as priuatiues and so not to be found in one and the same subiect at one and the same time the soule of Christ alwayes liuing could neuer be dead Neither could a dead soule be pleasing to God who is whole life and therefore hateth death as contrarie to his nature when yet he was alwayes well pleased with Christ. Where some imagine extreame paine in Christs soule may be called the death of his soule that position is repugnant to the Scriptures for the greater the paine which the soule feeleth and endureth with innocencie confidence obedience and patience such as were all Christes sufferings the more the soule liueth and cleaueth to God for whose glorie it suffereth so much smart as appeareth in Martyrs whose soules do most liue in their greatest torments The late deuice of hell-paines in Christes passion is not only false but also superfluous for the true paines of hell neither are nor can be suffered in this life where by Gods ordinance extreame paine driueth the soule from the bodie much lesse can man or Angell endure them with obedience and patience as Christ did all his paines And what need was there of hell-paines in the crosse of Christ since God can by euery meanes or without meanes raise more paines in bodie or soule than any creature can endure Christs soule could not be strooken with any horrour of Gods displeasure against him since in his greatest anguish he professed God to be his God and his Father and by prayer preuailed for his persecutors as appeared after by their conuersion and gaue eternall life to the soule of the Thiefe hanging by him and beleeuing on him Now to giue life is more than to haue life and restore others to fauour he can not that himselfe is in displeasure Hell-fire which the damned and diuels do and shall suffer is a true and eternall fire prepared by the mightie hand of God to punish aswell spirits as bodies and this errour That the fire of hell was only an internall or spirituall fire in the soules and consciences of men was long since condemned in Origen by the Church of Christ. Reiection therefore desperation confusion horrour of damnation externall and eternall fire which are the torments of the damned and true paines of hell can not without blasphemie be ascribed to Christ. Christ therefore suffered neither the death of the soule nor the paines nor horrors os the damned or of hell Euery sinne is common to the whole man who is defiled euen with thoughts that be euill not only because the bodie is the Seat wherein and the instrument whereby the soule worketh but also for that the first infection of sinne commeth to the soule by the bodie and the first information and prouocation to sinne riseth from the senses and affections which are mooued with corporall spirits and all the parts and powers of the bodie attend the will with most readie subiection to haue each sinne which the soule conceiueth impressed on them and executed by them And therefore the suffering for sinne in the person of the Mediatour must be common both to bodie and soule in such sort that as in transgressing our soules are the principall Agents so in the suffering for sinne his soule was the principall Patient Christ would vse no power to assuage the force and violence of his paines though he wanted none as appeareth by his ouerthrowing them with a word that came to apprehend him but submitted himselfe to his Fathers will with greater obedience and patience than any man liuing could We may therefore safely beleeue That the iustice of God condemning sinne in Christes flesh proportioned the paines of his bodie in
punishment and payment and vengeance for sinne such as the godly doe in no wise suffer Christ onely hauing wholy suffered that for vs all Therefore indeede his sufferings proceded from Gods proper wrath and were the true effects of Gods meere Iustice bent to take recompence on him for our offences Thou hast in these words Christian Reader the bulwarke of this mans cause concluding that Christ suffered the MEERE IVSTICE PROPER VVRATH and very CVRSE of God for sinne The frame of his reason if I vnderstand it as who vnderstandeth his mysteries but himselfe is this All paine in man is from God either as correction of sinne or as punishment for sinne In Christ there was no â cause and so no neede of â correction his sufferings therefore were the punishments of sinne They were punishments for sinne Ergo they were the true punishment proper payment wages and vengeance of sinne which proceeded from Gods proper wrath and were the true effects of Gods mââ¦ere iustice bent to take recompence on him for our offences His termes of TRVE PROPER and MEERE ioyned to the PVNISHMENT VVRATH and IVSTICE of God are not warranted by any Scripture much lesse referred to the sufferings of Christ nor so much as prooued by any testimony defined with any certaintie directed by any part or expounded by any meanes but onely proiected as Ridles and laberinthes to weary the wise to angle the simple and to refuge himselfe when he shall be pressed with the falsitie and impietie of his assertions Least therefore we wrangle about words in vaine which is his desire and deuise that he may seeme to say somewhat and carry the Reader into a forest of strange and vnknowen phrases where he shall hardly discerne what either side saith I thââ¦nke it needefull first to declare what the Scriptures meane by the wages of sinne and wrath of God and so to trie in what sense and with what truth his termes may be added to them and applyed to the sufferings of Christ. The wages of sinne is death saith S. Paul God himselfe foretold Adam it should be so Whensoeuer thou catest of the forbidden tree thou shalt die the death Then how many kinds of death are by God threatned and inflicted on sinners so many parts must the wages of sinne containe Now those are three the death of the Soule in this life which I call spirituall the death of the body leauing this life which I call corporall and the death of both in the next world which I call eternall For as man had two parts by which he did liue Soule and body and two places wherein he might liue if he obeyed God earth for a time and heauen for euer so disobedience depriued either part of man in either place of the life which he should haue enioyed and subiected him to the feares griefes and paines of death both here and in hell for euer The life of the body is the vnion of the Soule with the body the effects whereof are sense and motion to discerne obtaine and performe that which is needfull or healthfull for the body And as the presence of the Soule bringeth life to the body so the departing of the Soule taketh life from the body and leaueth it dead that is voide of all action motion and sense as to euery mans eyes is apparent in dead bodies The Soule therefore in the Scriptures is vsually taken for the life of the body which proceedeth from the Soule and is maintained by the Soule And these phrases to seeke a mans Soule tolay downe his owne Soule or to giue it for another to powre out his Soule vnto death with such like doe properly expresse the death of the body quickned by the Soule because men loose or leaue this life when they loose or leaue their Soules And where God threatned death to Adam euen the very same day in which he should transgresse we must not thinke that God either delayed the punishment longer or extended it farder then his words at first imported When therefore the very same day that they sinned God said to the woman increasing I will increase thy sorrow and to the man In sorrow shalt thou eate all the daies of thy life we must acknowledge that from that time forward death began to take hold and worke on both their bodies though not by present separation of the Soule from the body for Adam liued after that 930. yeeres yet by mortalitie mutabilitie miserie and namely by sorrow and paine as the instruments and agents of death Worldly sorrow causeth death as Paul witnesseth and a broken hart saith Salomon drieth the bones yea sorrow hath slaine maxy And were it not so written yet experience and nature teacheth vs that griefe of mind and paine of body where they continue or increase consume the flesh and hasten death so that when God the same day that they sinned subiected them to sorrow and paine which before they felt not He made way for death that it might continually worke in them and ââ¦ken them till they returned to dust The tiââ¦e of this life saith Austââ¦n is nothing elsâ⦠but a race to death and truely after a mââ¦n begiââ¦th to be in this bââ¦dy he is in death The life of the soule is not her vnderstanding and will which she can neuer lose no not in hell but onely the trueth and graââ¦e of God by whose spirit she receiueth the light of faith to direct her and the strength of loue to stirre and iââ¦cite her in tââ¦is life to beholde desire and embrace the holinesse and goodnesse of Gods blessed will and promise for her euerlasting happinesse which with patience and comfort of the Holy ghost she expecteth till Gods appointed time do come The lacke or losse of this inward sense and motion of Gods spirit which only can quicken the soule is the death of the soule depriued of her life which is God and left to herselfe in blindnesse and hardnesse of heart and giuen ouer vnto a reprobaââ¦e minde and vile affections to worke wickednesse euen with greedinesse till contempt of Gods will and desperation of his mercy doe fearefully end her miserable time in this life and violently draw her from hence to see and suffer the terrible iudgements of God prouided for sinne in another world Life euerlasting is the perfect and perpetuall vision and fruition of Gods glorious presence in the heauens where vnspeakable light and honour ioy and bliââ¦e shall compasse and replenish bodie and soule in the fellowship of Christ and his elect angels for euer The exclusion and reiection of the wicked from this heauenly fââ¦licity together with the shame and confusion of sinne wounding and stinging the conscience without ease or rest and the dreadfull horror of hell the place of darknesse and diuels hauing in it continuall flames of intolerable and vnquenchable fire eternallie tormenting the soules and bodies of the damned the Scriptures call the sââ¦cond death
you be not of your manifest follies But Christ suffered you say the substance of hell-paines though not the circumstances of place and time which the damned do suffer for they are not of the nature and essence of hell To make God the tormentor of Christs soule heere on earth with his immediate hand and so of all the damned soules in hell you brought vs the words of the Prophet Esay the Lord ââ¦ayd vpon him the iniquitie of vs all for this seraphicall sequestration of the substance from the circumstances of hell which mysterie of iniquitie you begin now to broach what Prophet or Apostle can you produce Dare you Sir Discourser out of the hazard of your owne head pull in pieces Gods setled reuealed and eternall iudgement against sinne and with the worme of your owne wit wrest in sunder the substance of hell from the circumstance thereof What will you not aduenture in earth that attempt this in hell or what shall be free from your forge that offer to make vs a new essence and nature of hell and heauen If you can deââ¦se or intend to mingle your toyes with Gods truth and with sillie sleights of Sophistrie which you thinke Philosophie subââ¦ert maine points of Diuinitie your leasure is great but your labour is leaud In the secrets of the next world none of the godlie euer presumed to debate or determine any thing speciallie touching hell or heauen without the manifest precedence or sequence of holie Scripture You had need therefore Sir Deuiser to be well aduised it is no small presumption and intrusion against Gods wisedome power and counsell to eleuate and frustrate the paines which he hath appointed for the wicked in hell and to coââ¦e fresh and new in stead thereof which God hath not ordained I professe to all the world I dare not depart from so often and earnest words of Christ himselfe nor allegorize the sentence of the Iudge which shall be pronounced on the reprobate both men and angels and executed in the sight of all the elect not by any figures and metaphors but by the terror of the things themselââ¦es matching the trueth of the words which Christ shall vtter And he ãâã I assure thee Christian Reader I ââ¦warue not either from the continuall tenor of the Scriptures nor from the full consent of Christs church howsoeuer this Deuiser flatte himselfe in his new inuention But let vs trace him in his owne path and controll him with the leââ¦ell of Gods trueth What can be more substantiall to any iudgement or punishment than the sentence of the Iudge and specially of such a Iudge as with his will word and power decreeth pronounceth and setlââ¦th all things in heauen earth and hell If then this Iudge in his sentence of condemnation appoint the PLACE and TIME to be parts of the punishmenââ¦s inflicted on the damned tell vs I pray you why some parts of the sentence be moââ¦e essentiall to the punishment than others or why all being parts alike they should not all be equally of the substance of the iudgement Depart from me ye cursed unto euerlasting fire prepared FOR THE DIVELL AND HIS ANGELS is the sentence to be pronounced on all the wicked that shall be damned Of the continuance there can be no question but here it is expresly mentioned that it shal be EVERLASTING For the place it is as plaine by the witnesse of the Scripture which maketh no fire euerlasting but onely hell-fire Our Sauiour twice in one chapter ioyneth the one as an exposition to the other and thrice almost with one breath affirmeth euerlasting fire to be the fire of hell It is better to enter into life mââ¦imed than hauing two hands or two feet to be cast INTO HELI INTO THE FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QVENCHED VVHERE their worme neuer dieth AND THE FIRE NEVER GOETH OVT No fire is euerlasting but onely hell-fire Christ therefore in his sentence including the one implieth the other as part of his iudgement against the reprobate and maketh both time and place essentiall parts in the punishment of the damned And when he sayth DEPART from me ye cursed forsomuch as there shal be then no places left but heauen for the blessed and hell for the cursed he doth not exclude them from the one but by appointing them to the other Besides that fire which is prepared for the diuell and his angels is no where but in hell and therefore adiudging them to that fire he doth euidentlie adiudge them to hell fire Since then no man is or shall be damned but only to hell and that for euer the place and continuance are expresse and so essentiall parts of the iudgement and consequently of the punishment that is and shall be inflicted on all the damned For the iudgement which then shall be openly pronounced is immutablie decreed and alreadie reuealed by the Iudge himselfe and therefore vnchangeable to all that aââ¦e or shal be damned and executed on that part of the wicked which is extant I meane their soules assoone as they depart this life though their bodies be yet in the dust as afterward shal be shewed Most vainly then and falsely doe you slide betweene the substance and circumstance of hell-paines since the name of hell-paines doth necessarilie and naturallie import the place of torment where those paines are which is hell and out of which place they are not els might they be called aswell aëriall or terrestââ¦iall paines as hell paines if they were found aswell in the aire or on the earth as in hell But the Scripture hath resolued vs there is a â⦠place of torment after this life which is called hell and the torments there so farre exceed all the paines of this life not only for perpetuitie but also for intolerable acerbitie and grauitie that they are iustly called hell-paines as proper to the place where diuels and damned persons shal be punished with euerlasting fire And where you would seeme out of the dregs of Philosophie to borrow the difference of the substance and circumstance of hell-paines you vnderstand not what you say For euen by the rules of Philosophie there are no circumstances in things perpetuall and immutable Circumstances must often varie els are they no circumstances if they be eternall and necessarie consequents Since then time and place do not alter in anie of the damned for all that are damned are cast into hell for euer though all suffer not like paines if there be any circumstances in hell they are rather in the degrees and differences of paine which you make the substance of hell than in the place or perpetuitie of the torment which neuer varie in any of the damned And since you will needs be medling with Philosophie I pray you Sir Discourser if Christ suffered the substance of damnation as you auouch doth not your doctrine plainlie conclude the Sauiour of the world to be damned for which shall truely attribute the name of anie thing
firy worme not dying nor destroying the bodie but breaking forth of the bodie with vnceasing anguish Howbeit because S. Austen leaueth it indifferent for euery man to refer the WORME properly to the bodie or figuratiuely to the minde as he liketh best so that by no meanes he thinke the bodies in hell shall not be touched with the paine of fire I left it likewise free for euery man to make his choise and saw no need of farther answer Touching brimstone you may iest at S. Iohn if you list who saith of the wicked they shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy Angels and before the Lambe and likewise of the diuell that he was cast into a lake of fire and brimstone or if you please you may oppose God himselfe and aske whether materiall brimstone were mixed with the fire which hee rained from heauen on Sodom and Gomorre and why hee powred them both on the heads of those wicked ones as if fire alone were not sufficient to destroy them who are set forth for an ensample by suffering the vengeance of eternall fire But howsoeuer you presume to alter or new frame the iudgements of God after your fansies when I reade that God hath rained brimstone and fire out of heauen on Sodom and the cities adioyning and will raine fire and brimstone vpon the wicked as Dauid testifieth I dare not allegorize either of them because I reuerence the word of God which is his will and by no meanes distrust his power For if God will haue brimstone mixed with hell fire to make it burne not onely the darker and sharper but also the lothsommer and so to grieue the sight smell and taste of the wicked which haue heere surfeited with so many vaine pleasures what haue you or any man liuing to say against it yea rather why teach you not men to tremble at the terror of Gods iudgements who can and will so fully punish all the powers and parts of bodie and soule with one and the same fire in hell Your obiection of true chaines and much wood I called sleeuelesse in deed I should haue called it witlesse for but you no man that would seeme wise euer did account it worth the obiecting or answering Who knoweth not that the names of artificiall things applied to Gods iudgement or gouernement must not import with him as they doe with vs things made or prouided with mens handes but the woonderfull works and powerfull acts of God tending to the same end for which these artificiall things do serue with vs As when we read in the Scriptures of Gods sword cup bow booke sootestoole furnace and such like Is any man so foolish as to aske after the Cutler Goldsmith Flââ¦tcher Stationer Carpenter Mason that made those things for God and not rather to looke to the vse of these things amongst men and thence to collect the marueilous and manifest effects of Gods power iustice counsell and prouidence determining and perfourming in this world and the next what pleaseth him against men and Angels The chaines wherewith the deuils are bound Peter calleth the chaines of darkenesse not of mettall which man can frame and they note the ineuitable subiection and immutable condition of deuils plunged in outwarde and inward darkenesse malediction and horror whereby they are now kept vnto damnation without any power to resist or decline the iudgement which shall be pronounced on them That God hath a Smith to make Iron chaines to bind the deuill or a fueller to cut and fetch wood for hell fire lest it should faile these were such meriments to be concluded out of Scripture that if you find no vanitie nor absurditie in them against the trueth and glorie of God you may take the Legend or the Alcoran into your Creede without any scruple of conscience but if these things be more then sottish then deserue your obiections a worse name then I gaue them The Scriptures you say shew no more any true fire in hell then true chaines and much wood To suppose those things to be needefull for hell which are prepared by the hands of men is a very wicked and wilfull impietie For so should hell fire quickly cease which Christ hath said shall be euerlasting And that the Scriptures prooue no more the trueth of fire there then they doe of wood is an open and arrogant vntruth For first all the Fathers of Christs Church and the soberest Diuines of our time are condemned by this insolent assertion as ignorant and absurd teachers who confesse the trueth of hell fire to be established by the Scriptures which of wood they do not Secondly the words of Christ and his Apostles are chalenged to be false For they in plaine speech affirme fire to be in hell which of wood they doe not Thirdly the reason whereupon the Defenders obiection is grounded ouerthroweth all religion in this life and all reward in the life to come For this is and must be the pillar whereto his obiection leaneth The Scripture nameth fire and so it nameth wood and therefore it sheweth the trueth of the one no more then it doth of the other but if the wood be figuratiue so must the fire be Applie this reason to the Church of Christ on earth or to the kingdome of heauen or to Christ himselfe and see whether it will not vtterly subuert them all and make all Gods promises and graces here and in heauen to be allegoricall and not literally true Of Christ God saith Behold I will lay in Sion a stone a tried stone a precious corner stone And of himselfe Christ saith I am the true Vine Were it not braue blasphemie to say the Scriptures shewe Christ to be no more a true God then a true Stone or a true Vine because they affirme of him all three To his Church God saith I will lay thy foundation with Saphires and will make thy windowes of Emeraudes and thy gates shining stones All thy children shall bee taught of God and much peace shall be to thy children in righteousnesse shalt thou be established Shall we say that wisedome peace and righteousnesse here promised to the Church are figuratiue because Emeraudes and Saphires mentioned in the very same place must be figuratiuely taken Christ saith to his disciples I appoint you a kingdome as my Father hath appointed to mee that you may eate and drinke at my table in my kingdome Are all the rewards of the faithfull in the kingdome of heauen allegoricall because this most apparantly is so Proude and false therefore is that surly resolution of yours Sir Discourser who auouch the Scriptures shewe no more true fire in hell then much wood because the Prophet in one place nameth them both and if your obiections be no better let the Christian reader iudge whether there be any cause you should so earnestly call for an answere But let vs view the place whence you
terrible cracks of that flaming fire to haue their eyes blinded with the bitter smoke of that fuming gulfe to be drowned in the deepe lake of Gehenna and to be torne eternally with most greedie wormes to thinke on these things and many such like is a sure way to renounce all vice and refraine all allurements of the flesh Apparently then the fire of hell by the confession of all these ancient aud Christian writers is locall as kept vnder the earth externall as inclosing the damned both men and diuels and sensible to the eyes with obscure flames tormenting all the parts of the body with an horrible paine of burning but not consuming them And that the fire of hell shal be an externall and true fire what proofe can be fairer or fuller than that Scriptures and Fathers with one voice professe that Christ shall come to iudge the world in flaming fire which shall melt the elements with heat and dissolue the heauens and threfore without question must needs be a true substantiall externall fire and that the same fire with which he shall come to iudge shall deuoure his aduersaries Behold sayth Esay the Lord will come with fire that he may render his indignation with the flame of fire for the Lord will iudge with fire There shall goe a fire before him when he commeth to iudge sayth Dauid and burne vp his enemies roââ¦nd about The Lord Iesus sayth Paul shall shew himselfe from heauen in flaming fire rendring vengeance to them that know not God and obey not the Gospel For to such remaineth no sacrifice for sin but a fearefull expectation of iudgement and a violence of fire which shall deuoure the aduersaries Fire sayth Arnobius shall go before Christ comming to iudgement euen fire which shall performe two offices with one and the same aspect it shall lighten the friends and inflame the enemies of God for the fire which shall burne the sinfull shal be made brightnesse to the iust The end of this present world saith Iustine Martyr is the iudgement of the wicked by fire as the scriptures of the Prophets Apostlesdeclare and likewise thâ⦠writings of Sibylle so blessed Clemens that liued with the Apostles in his Epistle to the Corinths affirmeth Christ shall come sayth Ambrose with his heauenly army and with fire as his minister to giue vengeance ââ¦or the sire of iudgement shall serue him to reuenge the reprobate sayth Gregorie Paul sheweth sayth Theodoret that iudgement shal be full of terror noting first the Iudge comming from heauen then their power which minister vnto him who are the angels lastly thâ⦠kinde of punishment for the wicked shall be deliuered to the flame of fire There are two properties in fire to burne and to shine the shining propertie the assembly of Saints shall enioy by the other shall wicked men be punished So Basil There are two forces in fire one to burne the other to shine the sharpnesse of ââ¦ire which punisheth is layed vp for those that deserue burning the light and shining thereof is allotted to the ioy of the blessed And Athanasius Fire hath two forces the one of shining which shall be giuen to the iust the other of burning which shall be diuided to sinners Ierom likewise Fire shal be light to the faithfull and punish the vnbeleeuers And Theophylact Christs comming shall be in flaming fire as Dauid professeth of him A fire shall goe before him and shall burne his enemies round about For this fire shall offer burning to sinners and no shining but to the iust it shall giue light and shining and no heat or burning The fire I trust which hath these two properties to lighten the iust and torment the wicked is an externall and sensible fire and with that fire Christ shall come to dissolue the heauens melt the elements and punish the wicked neither shall the spirituall and internall paine of the soule which the Discourser maketh his hell fire come neere the Saints or be ioyous and comfortable to any as the fire of iudgement shal be to the saints of God Then all sorts of writers Prophets Euangelists Apostles and Diuines of all ages Yea Philosophers Poets and Sibyls haue taught the wicked shall ââ¦e punished with true fire and not with metaphores and the Sonne of God in person hath confirmed the same and all sectes Iewes Pagans and Christians haue beleeued it God taking speciall care as well by deeds as words that the truth and terror of his vengeance vpon sinne should not be vnknowen to all the world For which cause he hath not only made the earth in many places as Aetna Vesuuis and else where to burne with perpetuall fire but hath often destroyed sinfull persons and places with fire from heauen to let all men see and know that the vengeance decreed threatned and executed on the wicked is sensible and true fire from God which he hath made of all senseles creatures the most violent potent and fearefull meanes to punish Therefore did he raine fire and brimstone vpon Sodome and Gomorre when their sinnes were at full punished the people that murmured at him with fire calling the name of the place THABHERAH because the fire of the Lord burnt amongst them as likewise he sent Firie serpents to bite them when they spake against him So Fire came out from the Lord and consumed the two hundred and fiftie men of Corahs company that presumed to offer incence vnto the Lord as before it had destroyed Nadab and Abihu for offering strange fire before the Lord. And at Eliahs word Fire came downe from heauen twice and deuoured two Captaines with their two bands of an hundred men Insomuch that when Satan would haue Iob beleeue he was punished by Gods owne hand he gate fire to fall from heauen vpon Iobs sheepe and seruants the messenger making this report The fire of God is fallen from heauen and hath burnt vp thy sheepe and seruants and deuoured them Which kind of vengeance Iames and Iohn the Disciples of Christ desired when their master was repelled by the Samaritans and denyed lodging as willing to haue that inhumanitie punished to the example of all others but that they were repressed by him who came to saue and not to destroy Thus hath God often by true and sensible fire from heauen declared and verified the certaintie of his generall and finall iudgement when his Sonne shall appeare in flaming fire to render vengeance to all that know not God and obey not the Gospell and that fire of Iudgement which shall burne heauen and earth shall shine to the Saints with ioy and comfort and punish the wicked by tormenting them for euer This you thinke is not against you for you deny that Now there is corporall fire in hell whatsoeuer there shall be hereafter when bodies also shal be there vnited and tormented with the soules and this
speechlesse we die that are of the earth but he which came from heauen breathed out his soule with a loud voice We must say it was a shew of his diuine power to lay downe his soule when he would and to take it againe Yea the Centurio hearing him say to hiâ⦠Father Into thine hands I commend my spirit statim sponte spiritum dimisisse and straightway of his own accord to send forth his spirit mooued with the GREATNES of this WOONDER said Truly this was the Sonne of God Chrysostome vpon these words of Matthew Iesus crying with a loud voice gaue vp the ghost sayth Idcirco magna voce clamauit vt ostendat haec sua potestate fieri Therefore Christ cried with a loud voice that he might shew this to be done by his owne power Marke sayth Pilate maruââ¦lled if he were alreadie dead And the Centurion also THERââ¦FORE CHIEFLY beleeued because he saw Christ die of his owne accord and power Victor of Antioch vpon the like words of Marke sayth By so doing the Lord Iesus doth plainly declare that he had his whole life and death in his owne free power Wherefore Marke writeth that Pilate not without admiration asked if Christ were yet dead addidit item ea potissimum de causa Centurionem credidisse he added likewise that the Centurion chiefly for that reason beleeued because he saw Christ giue vp the ghost with a loud crie and signification of great power Leo noting that Christ died not for lacke of helpe but of determinatâ⦠purpose sayth Quae illic vitae intercessio sentienda est vbi anima potestate est emissa potestate reuocata What intreatie for life shall we thinke there was where the soule was both sent out with power and recalled with power Fulgentius Cum ergo homo Christus tantam accepââ¦rit potestatem vt cum vellet animam poneret cum vellet denuò resumeret quantam potuit habere Christi diuinitas potestatem Ideo autem ille homo potestatem animae habuit quia cum diuina potestas in vnitatem personae suscepit Where then the man Christ receiued so much power that he might lay downe his soule when he would and take it againe when he would how great power might the Godhead of Christ haue and therefore the manhood of Christ had power to lay downe his soule because the diuine power admitted him into the vinitie of person Sedulius Animam protinus suam sancto de corpore volens ipse deposââ¦it Christ himselfe forthwith vpon his prayer willingly layd off his sacred soule from his bodie Nonnius in his Paraphrase vpon S. Iohns Gospell expresseth the saying of Christ None taketh my soule from me in these words No birth-law taketh my soule from me no incroching time that tameth all things nor Necessitie which is vnchangeable counsell ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã but ruler of my selfe I of mine owne accord yeeld vp my willing soule Beda vpon that place of Matthew And Iesus crying with a loud voice sent out or gaue vp his spirit writeth thus Quod autem dicit emisit spiritum ostendit diuinae potestatis esse emittere spiritum vt ipse quoque dixerat nemo potest tollere animam in that the Euangelist saith Christ sent out his soule or spirit he sheweth it is a point of Diuine power to send out the soule as Christ himselfe sayd None can take my soule from me Nullus enim habet potestatem emittendi spiritum nisi qui animarum conditor est For none hath power to send out the soule but he that is Creator of soules Which Bede buildeth vpon the words of S. Matthew who saith that Christ crying with a loud voice ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã dismissed or sent his soule from him Theophylact Iesus crieth with a loud voice that we should know it was true which he sayd I haue power to lay downe my soule for not constrained but of his own accord he dismissed his soule And the Centurion seeing that he breathed out his soule so like a Commander of death WONDERED and confessed him ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã for he died not like other men but as the Master of death Lyra vpon these words of Matthew Iesus againe crying with a loude voice sent forth his soule Whereby it appeareth that voice was not naturall but MIRACVLOVS because a man afflicted with great and long torment and through such affliction neere to death could not so cry by any strength of nature The latter writers concurre with the older in this obseruation Erasmus in his Paraphrase vpon Saint Luke Iesus when with a mighty cry he had said Father into thy hands I commend my spirit breathed out his soule to make it manifest to all that he did not faint as others doe the strengh of the body by little and little decaying but straightway vpon a strong cry and words distinctly pronounced laid downe his life as of his owne accord And the Centurion who stood ouerright as a Minister and witnesse of his death and had seene many dye with punishment when he saw Iesus besides the manner of other men after a strong cry presently to breath out his soule said truely this man was the Sonne of God Musculus That Christ sent foorth hiâ⦠soule with aloude voice is a proofe of greater power then may be found in a man dying Whereby he shewed that he layed of his soule of his owne accord answerable to that I haue power to lay downe my soule and to take it againe To which end Iohn saith that bowing his head he gaue vp the Ghost Others first dye and then their heads fall but he first layeth downe his head and then of his owne accord deliuereth his soule vp to his Father Gualter But let vs see the manner of Christs death who as Iohn writeth with bowing downe his head yelded his Spirit Luke saith he cryed with a loude voice Father into thy hands I commend my Spirite Concurrunt hââ¦c non obscura Diuinitatis argumenta Here find we manifest arguments of his Diuinitie which the Centurion and others obserued as some of the Euangelists witnesse First this cry and distinct pronouncing of his last words sheweth a power and vertue MORE THEN HVMANE For we know that men dying so faint that the most of them cannot speake be it neuer so softly Againe he dyeth when he will himselfe yea and layeth of his soule with authoritie to shew himselfe Lord of life and death which is an euident proofe of his Diuine power It is profitable for vs diligently to marke the Diuine power of Christ which shewed it selfe so plainly in his death Marlorat vpon the words of Mathew and Iesus crying againe with a loud voyce sent foorth his spirit saith Declarat hic Christus maiestatem suam Christ declareth here his Maiestie that he layeth downe his soule not when men constraine him but when he himselfe will
ambiguous and quarrellous The whole propitiatorie sacrifice are words as doubtfull as the other for since Christ was the Priest who by his eternall spirit offered himselfe vnspotted to God and gaue himselfe for vs to be an offering and sacrifice of a sweet smel vnto God his innocence and obedience chiefly rested in his soule thence sanctified his bodie which suffered death for the ransome of our sinnes Though then all things in Christ were holie and acceptable vnto God and so sacrifices most meritorious yet nothing did fully satisfie the iustice of God for sinne nor make a perfect reconciliation for vs with God but his obedience vnto death For that which must satisfie for sinne must be death other ransome for sinne God neither in his wisdome and counsell would nor in his trueth and iustice could accept after his will once determined and declared It was the first wages appointed and denounced by God to sinne In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt die the death or certainly thou shalt die the doubling of the word noting the inflexibilitââ¦e of Gods counsell and iustice The Apostle witnesseth the same when he sayth The wages of sinne is death Then as sinne was irreuocabââ¦e rewarded with death so must it necessarily be redeemed by death Which rule stood so sure that when the Sonne of God would giue himselfe for vs to redeeme vs he could not do it by reason of Gods immutable counsell and decree but by death Wherefore the Apostle calleth him the Mediator of the New testament through death for the redemption of transgressions And where a testament is there MVST BE sayth he the death of the testator He contenteth not himselfe to say there was but there must be the death of the testator before we could be redeemed A necessitie not simplie binding Gods power but plainly declaring his counsell to be fixed and his will reuealed Since then Christ was to taste death for all men that through death he might destroy him which had power of death euen the diuell and deliuer vs who were reconciled to God by the death of his sonne the point which indeed wee both must stand on is what death Christ suffered to redeeme vs from sinne and to reconcile vs vnto God whether it were the death of the damned which is the second death or the death of the soule or as I auouch the death of the bodie only Other parts of Christes person and beames of his vertues and kinds of his sufferings are not to this quââ¦stion ââ¦arther than they commended and presented to God Christes death which must ransome our sinnes but the scope to which all the rest was referred and the ââ¦lose which consummated all the rest was death and therefore no sufferings of Christ were parts of the propitiatorie sacrifice which ransomed sinne but such as ended in death or tended to that sorrowfull shamefull and painfull death of Christ which by order of Gods iustice was appointed to satisfie for sinne The fulnesse of which satisfaction consisted in death and therefore the death and bloud of Christ though they were not the whole sacrifice yet were they the full and perfect ransome and price for sinne because without them the rest could not preuaile and to them all the rest was directed If then you will deale plainly as you pretend or not forget your duetie to God and his trueth you must leaue cauilling with the words of the Holy Ghost and go soberly to consider not whether any other sufferings but whether any other death of Christes be mentioned in the Scriptures to ransome our sinnes besides the death of his bodie If you finde any other there professe ââ¦t in Gods name if you finde none but only that described or mentioned in the Scriptures leaue snarling at the depth and bredth of those words which the Spirit of God hath authorized and learne rather to vnderstand them truely than vainly to oppose against them In sense and substance there is no difference betwixt these words the death bloud and crosse of Christ the crosse noting the tree whereon Christ died a reprochfull and cruell death for vs and his bloud expressing the maner of his death by sundrie sorts of shedding the same as by whipping piercing his head with thornes boaring his hands and feet to fasten him to the crosse and hanging him thereon three houres by the sorenesse of his wounds till his soule departed from his bodie To make these iarre one with the other which the holy Ghost had knit together is the signe of a busie but not of godly wit and howsoeuer you and your adherents can flourish with figures of Grammar you were best take heede that you turne not your eares from the trueth of God The bodily death which Christ died to ransome our sinnes the holy Ghost doth note sometimes by his Flesh sometimes by his Body sometimes by his Blood and sometimes by his Crosse and these either ioyned or seuered and sometimes also by his soule or life laide downe or powred out vnto death for vs. We finde them ioyned when Paul saith It pleased God by Christ to reconcile all things to himselfe and to pacifie by the BLOOD of his Crosse through him both things in earth and things in heauen And you which in times past were strangers and enemies hath he now reconciled in the BODY OF HIS FLESH through death Seuered are they when Peter saith You were redeemed by the precious blood of Christ as a Lambe vndefiled Who by his owne blood saith the Apostle entered in once into the holyplace and obtained eternall Redemption And so when Iohn saith The blood of Iesus Christ clenseth vs from all sinne As likewife Paul We haue Redemption through his blood euen the Remission of sinnes Of his body himselfe saith This is my body which is giuen for you and my flesh will I giue for the life of the world so are we sanctified by the offering of the body of Iesus Christ once Likewise of his soule by which the Scripture meaneth his life for that life wholy dependeth vpon the presence of the soule in the body My Father loueth me sayth Christ because I lay downe my soule or life The sonne of man came to giue his soule or life as a ransome for many And Esay foreshewed that Christ should diuide the spoyle of or with the mightie Because he powred out his soule vnto death which seuereth the soule from the body and so made it an offering for sinne by laying it downe of himselfe that death might seaze on his body This then being the maine foundation of the Gospel which the Apostle receiued that Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures the Question still standeth as I first set it What death Christ died for our sinnes by the witnesse of holy Scriptures and not what sufferings went before or what other things ioyned with his death which is
the hole that you would faine hide your selfe in To that intent which I set downe my reasons drawen from the Iewish sacrifices and Christians sacraments did and doe still stand effectuall For the olde sacrifices must figure and the new Sacraments must seale whatsoeuer death in Christ was the full and perfect ransome of our sinnes But they foreshew and confirme the bodily death of Christ onely they neither shew not signifie the death of the soule nor the death of the damned Therefore the bodily death of Christ onely is the full and perfect ransome of our sinnes the death of the soule and the death of the damned as they serued nothing to our Redemption so were they not suffered in the soule of Christ. Two cauils you offer against the first part of this reason touching the sacrifices of the fathers before and vnder the law One that they figured not the whole sacrifice as neither Christes Deitie his soule nor his resurrection the next that all the sacrifices of the Iewes did not signifie his bodily death because the Scape goate which was a sinne offering was not slaine Of trifling you talke much this is more then trifling it is plaine shifting Christes deitie could be no part of that sacrifice which suffered for sinne the diuine Maiestie can not suffer either paine or sorrow To what ende then come you in with Christes Godhead when you talke of his suffering for sinne His soule you say was not figured by those sacrifices The suffering death in his soule was indeed no way figured by them but that the mediatour should haue an humane soule to bee separated from his body by death before hee could make purgation of our sinnes that was more then figured by those sacrifices For since not the blood of beasts but of man and euen of the Sonne of God made man was by Gods promise to be shed for our sinnes It is euident that from life to death he could not come but by seuering his soule from his body And consequently he must haue a soule being a man which must be powred out vnto death before he could die euen as the powers of life in bloody sacrifices were parted from their flesh before they could be offered as sacrifices vnto God But I charge you vntruely when I say you expound your whole and absolute Redemption to be of all the fruites and causes of our Redemption you haue no such word nor meaning as fruites Your words are our whole and absolute Redemption and those I say containe the whole course of our saluation euen vnto the last step which is our glorification as I haue formerly prooued by Christes owne speech Againe if the resurrection of Christ which is your owne instance bee a part of that propitiatorie sacrifice because it was a necessarie consequent then all the benefites that Christ obtained for vs or bestowed on vs must be comprised in that his oblation for sinne For they are all necessarie consequents and effects of our Redemption and depend on these two branches his death to free vs from sinne and his resurrection to raise vs into a new and heauenly life now for euer He was deliuered to death for our sinnes and rose againe for our iustification From these two heads the Scriptures deriue not onely forgiuenes of sinnes but newnesse of life on earth and happinesse of life in heauen Yet you did not call them fruits Effects you called them and what is a ioyfull effect such as was Christs resurrection but a fruit and that as well in Christ as in vs When the Prophet saith of Christ he shall see the trauaile of his soule and be satisfied what meaneth he but the fruits and effects of Christs labour when for his obedience to death God highly exalted him and gaue him a name aboue euery name that euery knee should bow vnto him what is this but a fruite and reward of his humiliation first in his owne person then proportionably in all that be his Many of the Iewes sacrifices yea most of them did represent and signifie Christs bodily sufferings onely yet not all Therefore you may well deny mine assumption as you did before and affirme that certaine Iewish Sacrifices set forth the sufferings euen of the soule of Christ and not of his body only Did I any where say that all the Iewish sacrifices were bloudy or that all of them did represent Christs death and blood shedding Could I be ignorant that the Iewes had oblations made onely by fier as of flower wine and incense and also offerings of the first fruits and other things dedicated or presented to the Lord for the vse of his tabernacle and Temple Doth not the Apostle say Euery high Priest is ordayned for men to offer GIFTES and SACRIFICES for sinne Where gifts shew that things without life were offered as well as liuing beasts and birds which were slaine As then there was no cause nor neede I should so I neuer vsed the word ALL in that case vnlesse I added liuing or BLOODY Sacrifices For they by their life lost and blood shed figured the death of Christ Iesus But this ALL is your adding to my wordes that you may take occasion to pike some quarrell at them But you may well deny my assumption that no sacrifices of the Iewes did figure the sufferings of Christs soule I assumed no such thing neither did I meddle with the sufferings of Christs soule vnlesse they were the death of the soule or the paines of hell which the Scripture calleth the second death and I the death of the damned because none besides the damned die that second death but you plainly giue me the slip and conuey your selfe from speaking of the death of the soule or of the death of the damned which are the things in Question to the sufferings of the soule in generall of which I make no Question And though your meaning be vnder the sufferings of the soule to comprise the tormenting of Christs soule by the immediate hand of God with the selfe same paines which the damned do feele in hell Yet such is your cariage that euery where you suppresse your maine intent and make a faire shew with the sufferings of Christs soule as if you ment no more but that Christs soule must needs haue some sufferings proper to it selfe which you confesse I sundry times teach and yet you make your Reader beleeue I euer impugne You shall doe well to awake out of this slumber and call to minde that there are no sufferings of Christs soule now in question but the DEATH of the SOVLE or of the DAMNED which you dare not openly auouch and therefore you plaster them ouer with smoother termes of the sufferings of the soule to hide your secret mysteries till you meete with itching eares that will listen more to fansies then to faith Another peece of skill you shew in this place to ease your selfe of all proofe and thinke it enough if
it is which the Scripture so calleth were not coherent with that incorruption which they shall haue there The one is not the other but the one is so consequent to the other that without holines in earth no man shall euer enioy happinesse in heauen And to both doth the imitation of Christ and signification of fire in the holocaust direct vs. Comming to the next reason you reprooued me for saying Sacraments are earthly Elements they can not set out the spirituall and ââ¦uisible effects in Christ. There was iust cause I should tell you that this your asseââ¦tion did mainly crosse the very nature and definition of a Sacrament For Sacraments are visible signes of inuisible graces that is of the spirituall effects of Christs power and grace abiding in him and yet working in vs. Wherein did I wrong you you ment they vsually represent not spirituall and inââ¦sible effects or acts in Christ him selfe but onely the externall and visible parts of his passion The two Sacraments of the new Testament Baptisme and the Lords Supper doe they represent onely the externall and visible parts of Christs passion Doth Baptisme shew no more in Christ but that actuall and substantiall water ranne out of his side after he was dead Is this the whole signification and repââ¦esentation that baptisme offereth vnto vs Surely you must leaue Catechising and learne to be catechised if this be all your skill in Sacraments The bread and wine on the Lords table besides the reference which they haue to the body of Christ broken and his blood shed doe they not plainly shew the flesh of Christ is meate and his blood drinke nourishing our soules to euerlasting life as the elements support and maintaine the life of the body Water in Baptisme doth it not declare the power of Christs death washing our soules and of his spirit renuing our minds These you say are spirituall effects wrought in vs not in Christ. Power to clense quicken nourish and strengthen to eternall life is that Christs or ours We indeede are the persons that are clensed quickened nourished and strengthened but the force and grace working these things in vs is Christs and not ours We receiue it as flowing from the fountaine but it naturally springeth in him and from thence is deriued to vs. The Sacraments then teach vs that the fulnesse of power and grace dwelleth in Christ really and truely which he is content shall worke in vs but neuer leaue him The water washing the bread nourishing the wine comforting note no power in vs to do any of these things it is euident impietie so to thinke or say onely they assure vs that as Christ the true owner of all these things by his obedience vnto death was made the onely disposer of them so he will performe the couenant with vs which the Sacraments doe seale vnto vs and that is the couenant of mercie and grace in this life and of glorie in the next which the Sacraments could not seale except they did signifie those gifts and effects to be actiuely and originally in the giuer as they are passiuely in the Receiuers VSVALLY Sacraments doe not represent spirituall effects or actes in Christ. When text and trueth faile you your fashion is to flie to phrases and so still to say somewhat though it want both learning and vnderstanding For example Sacraments you say doe not VSVALLY represent spirituall effects or acts in Christ. Did you speake of nature which often faileth or of men who change their minds vsuall and vnusuall might serue for some purpose but what is this to Sacraments they constantly and continually keepe the same order in their significations and representations so that vsuall and vnusuall in them are all one The nature of the Element is still the same the action prescribed may not be varied the promise annexed neuer faileth on Gods part So that what any Sacrament once resembleth or signifieth it alwayes expresseth and obserueth the same Will you diuert your wordes to diuers Sacraments and make that vsuall to one which is vnusuall to another This which you vsually exclude from Sacraments is common to both the Sacraments of the New Testament of which we reason and being common to them both as I haue shewed to signifie spirituall effects or acts in Christ himselfe with what trueth say you now THEY do it not vsually speaking of both whereas both do it apparently and perpetually It is your selfe indeede that denieth the very definition of a Sacrament for your maine assertion is that neither the Iewish sacrifices nor Christian Sacraments doe signifie any more then the bodily and bloââ¦dy death of Christ which I hope was a visible and no ââ¦uisible thing Your Reader will shortly take you so often tardie with foule-lies that hee will skant beleeue you when you speake a trueth Is it any position of mine that the Iewish sacrifices and Christian Sacraments doe not signifie any more then the bodily and bloudie death of Christ Indeede I afââ¦irmed they signified none other death of Christ but only that which was bodily and bloudie which I gââ¦ant was visible but as for other effects of Christs power grace by which we are grafted into Christ and quickââ¦ed and nourished vnto life euerlasting Ireferred them to the Sacraments of the new Testament as vnto Seales confirming the couenant of mercie grace and glorie made to vs by the death of Christ in the same words that I now speake it And so conclude of them as I doe now These propose vnto vs no inuisible paines of hell but the body of Christ wounded and his bloud shed for the remitting of our sinnes and vniting vs vnto Christ. Therefore your turning no inuisible paines of hell which are my words into no more then a bodily death which are yours and vnder pretence of those words excluding from the Sacraments all other significations and representations of Christs inuisible power and grace proposed by them sheweth your accustomed vain of misconstering and altering my words when you cannot otherwise impugne them You make me to crosse the institution of the Lords table because I said the Ceremonie of breaking the bread cannot properly belong to Christs body But euen here doe I not expressely say that it sheweth forth how Christs body was broken for vs Where by Christs institution the bread was BROKEN to note vnto vs the breaking of his body for our sinnes and Paul expresseth that similitude of the bread broken to Christes body in saying The bread which wee breake is it not the communion of the body of Christ and to verifie that resemblance reporteth the words of Christs institution in effect to be these This is my body which is broken for you you to make a siely shew that the Sacraments declare Christs suffering of Hell paines auouch that the. breaking of the bread cannot properly belong to the body but to the soule and to the body by Sympathie
any certaine measure of Christes paines felt in his bodie or soule by which his soule might easily be afflicted as farre as his humane strength could stretch but the matching and euening of it with hell fire I take to be a presumptuous and irreligious deuice of this Dreamer for the reasons which I haue formerly shewed to wit that hell paines are not executed in this life where Christ suffered nor sufferable to the bodie which is mortall nor tolerable to the strength of men or angels Now though the gifts and graces of Gods Spirit in the soule of Christ exceeded the measure of angels as well for himselfe who is Lord and Iudge ouer all as for vs that receiue of his fulnesse yet in his crucifying the Scriptures note his infirmitie not his infinitie and auouch him by the suffering of death to be inferiour to the angels and not in strength of flesh to be superiour vnto them who are not able to endure hell paines with patience as we finde by triall in diuels Wherefore assure thy selfe Christian Reader they are more than follies which this man fableth of Christes paines equall and euen to hell fire it selfe and such is his constancie in his new Diuinitie that sometimes Christ suffered the verie paines of hell themselues and the same which the damned doe sometimes Christes paine was equall to it and as hot as hell fire and so not the verie same that the damned do suffer who feele indeed the true force of hell fire though not in that heat and heigth which they shall feele it at and after the day of iudgement It is most necessarie and most comfortable to be vnderstood of all men how the Lord assigned to his Sonne in the worke of redemption two persons as it were or countenances or conditions His owne naturally which God euer deerely loued and our countenance or person or condition which the Lord truely accursed and punished His owne Nature felt the sorrow and paine of the curse and hatred but the hatred and curse was bent against the load of our sinne wherein he stood foorth as guiltie before God and appeared as it were clothed therewith The taking of our Nature person and cause by the Sonne of God for our saluation is a key of Christian pietie that most concerneth and most profiteth vs if it be rightly vnderstood But as Waspes out of sweete flowres gather sharpe and hote liquors so out of the wholsome mysteries of true religion you labour to encrease the tartnesse of your vnholsome humour The eternall and true Sonne of God by the determinate counsell of his Father tooke our humane nature that is both the bodie and soule of man into one and the same person with his diuine glorie that by the sanctitie power and dignitie of the one the basenesse and weakenesse of the other might with more certaintie securitie and facilitie performe the worke of our redemption For by the neere and inseparable knitting of those two natures together not onely the person was able by his owne power to destroy sinne death and Satan and of his owne right to giue the spirit of trueth and grace and euerlasting righteousnesse and happinesse to all that beleeue in him but his birth life and death that is his humilitie obedience and patience were of infinite price and value with God by reason the same person that so humbled himselfe to obey the will and suffer the hand of his Father was also God though he could not suffer in his diuine but onely in his humane nature And to assure vs of his mercies towards vs by making vs partakers of his graces and merits with him he tooke all his elect into one and the same bodie with him ioyning himselfe vnto them by the power of his spirit as the head to the members that from him they might draw the strength hope and ioy of eternall life and all his meritorious passions and victorious actions be fully theirs as performed in their names and to their vses by him that for their sakes became their like and their leader I meane their head and their Sauiour And because sinne was the thing which seuered vs from Gods holinesse and prouoked his iustice against vs subiecting vs to death and damnation Christ therefore tooke vpon him the recompence of his Fathers holines by his obedience the preseruance of his Fathers iustice by his patience admitting into his humane soule and bodie not the infection or pollution of our sinne much lesse the confusion or destruction due to vs for sinne since he could neither be defiled with our sinne nor damned for our sinne but the purgation and satisfaction of our sinnes To which end by his obedience he abolished our disobedience that as by one mans disobedience which was Adam many were made sinners so by the obedience of one which is Christ manie should be made righteous and through death suffered in the bodie of his flesh for the redemption of our transgressions he reconciled vs to God and set at peace by the blood of his Crosse things in earth and things in heauen bearing our finnes in his bodie on the tree that we might be healed by his stripes We then were in our selues defiled hated accursed reiected and condemned for sinne yet Christ our Redeemer and Sauiour tooke vs into himselfe and our cause vpon himselfe not to partake with vs in our spirituall filthinesse and eternall wretchednesse but to clense vs from the one and to free vs from the other So that we did neither defile nor endanger him But his blood washed vs from all our sinnes and by his death he destroyed him that had power ouer death euen the deuill You speake then not onely without booke but without trueth when you say that Christ was euer deerely loued of God for his owne condition yet in or for our condition he was truely accursed and hated You might with as much faith and religion haue said That Christ by or with our condition was truely polluted with sinne and truely reiected confounded and damned for sinne For so were we and if his taking our cause vpon him doe truely and necessarily subiect him to our deserts and dangers then can none of these things be auoided which you so much abhorre as blasphemies All those things were due to vs in the highest degree euen when Christ tooke vs and our cause vnto him and were not released vnto vs but in Christ and for Christ and consequently if your two countenances and conditions in Christ be such as you make you may aswell affirme the last as the first that is as well pollution of sinne and damnation for sinne as malediction and hatred for sinne But who is so foolish amongst men as to thinke or call him a Theefe and a Felon that vpon repentance of the partie and recompense for the fact intreateth and obteineth pardon for one that was a Theefe and a Felon or so childish to say that
that meanes further remoued from the dignitie and maiestie of the Sonne of God herefore the Scriptures more carefully expresse that he tooke our flesh and euen therein suffered death sor the ransome of our sinnes though he wanted not a soule when he became man nor any part in him did or could feele and discerne the paine and affliction of his bodie but onely his soule The respects of Christs comming into the world and suffering sor vs if we will learne we need not your termes of directly and primarily the holy Ghost hath taught vs this to be a faithfull saying and worthy of all admittaâ⦠that Christ Iesus came into the world to saue sinners Himselfe is a witnesse without all exception that he came to serue and to giue his life a ransome for manie Yea his flââ¦sh which he gaue for the life of the world is the breââ¦d that came downe from heauen If then things in earth and things in heauen were pacified by the blood of his Crosse and we reconciled through death in the bodie of his flesh in which he bare our siââ¦es on the tree It is certaine that Christes bodie blood and death on the Crosse and consequently his sufferings from these and by these were directly and primarily intended as the meanes of our redemption and reconciliation and your vaine imagination of the soules most principall disposition in comparison whereof Christ say you did not respect this sensitiue suffering by Sympathie with and from the bodie which is common to vs with beastes is a lewde and irreligious reproch to the death and Crosse of Christ Iesus For what if the bodie of a beast may be crucified and his blood shed by piercing and wounding as Christs was shall wee therefore say that Christs death and passion were common to brute beastes Would any maâ⦠frame his heart thus to think or his tongue thus to speake but he that is bruter then a beast Of your hell paines may it not more truly be said that as you would cast them on Christes soule they should be common to him with deuils who I troe are worse then beastes But these bee meete matters for such a master in Israel as you are You vntruely and vnlearnedly suppose the corporall afflictions of the Saints and of Christ himselfe to pierce no further then into the externall sensitiue part which you make common to them with beasts and sufferings proper to reasonable creatures you admit none but your hell paines which are common to them with deuils So that by your profound diuinitie all Christian men suffer either as beasts or as deuils Which errour of yours I haue sufficiently refuted before and by that enformed the Reader that the chastening and afflicting the soule of man by temporall and externall meanes and paines from the bodie is proper to men and not common to beasts who haue no soules nor to deuils who haue no bodies and that God doth thus chasten and correct his children whose patience is precious in his sight thereby to trie encrease and quicken his graces in them which is blasphemie to affirme either of beasts or deuils And from what spirit this can proceede to yeelde Christ no more sense taste nor thought of his bodily sufferings then you doe to a beast let the Reader iudge for my part I abhorre such heathenish if not hellish comparisons But sense you will say is common to man and beast I haue no doubt that beasts doe heare and see smell taste and feele as well as men but euen in all these fiue and specially in hearing seeing and feeling the soule of man sheweth difference sufficient betwixt a man and a beast For man by his immortall and reasonable spirit discerneth and vnderstandeth what he heareth seeth or feeleth which beasts cannot doe and he conceaueth not onely the things which affect his senses but the causes effects adiuncts consequents and remedies thereof and thereby frameth himselfe if he be religious to behold therein the worke and will of God which is as farre from beasts as reason and grace Though then eares eyes and sinewes be common to men with beastes yet in them and by them the soule of man worketh and suffereth which because beasts haue not it is a verie grosse ouersight of yours Sir Discourser to make the bodily sufferings of Christ common to him with beastes in which the soule of Christ shewed so much obedience pacience submission deuotion and loue that God accepted those sufferings violently and iniuriously inflicted on Christs bodie but humbly religiously and willingly receiued in his soule as the full satisfaction for our sinnes There is no reason in the world nor likelyhood that the naturall facultie in Christs soule of proper and immediate suffering for our sinnes should haue no vse and a suffering of paines onely from and by the bodie should be sufficient when as in his doing of righteousnesse for vs his soules ioynt obedience and mutually knit together in and with his body was not alone sufficient This must needes be a perfect reason for vs against you except you could by expresse Scripture disprooue this proportion of like necessitie betweene the operation of the proper faculties of Christs humane soule that is betweene his doing and his suffering for vs which you shall neuer be able to doe When and how came you by this authoritie or libertie that you may say what you will in matters of faith without all warrant of holy Scripture and your fansies must stand for authentike except I can disproue them by expresse Scripture Nay first proue them before we receiue them as you and all other Christians ought to doe if you will haue them passe for grounds of religion and then if I can not disproue them by the same Scriptures they shall go for good An answer to this perfect reason of yours if you would haue I answere you with Tertullian Non recipio quod extra Scripturam de tuo infers I receiue not this which you bring of your owne without the Scripture And with Athanasius If you will babble other things besides those which are written why striue you with vs that are persuaded neither to heare nor to speake any thing besides the Scriptures Shew vs this proper and immediate suffering for sinnes in the soule of Christ which you so much talke of by the Scriptures and we wil thinke our selues bound to answer it otherwise it is as easily reiected as it is offered But there is no reason in the world nor likelyhood it should bee otherwise Indeede there is no reason in the world nor likelyhood it should be so as you haue said For in Christes doings and sufferings there was obserued and must bee confessed a cleane contrarie course His doings were all iust and holy as hee himselfe was and proceeded first from his own mind and will by the immediate power and grace of Gods spirit in him whencesoeuer the outward occasions were offered him
The plagues and curses of sinne extending as farre as sinners haue any parts of which they consist as bodie and soule or places in which they may be as here so in hell or pertinents which they may haue or need for the ease and vse of this life I called in my conclusion externall corporall spirituall and eternall plagues or punishments of sinne Contrarie to cursing is blessing which is good purposed promised oâ⦠performed to obedience as Cursing is euill intended threatned or prepared for disobedience and so by the one Contrarie we may rightly measure the other yea the names of benediction and malediction which is blessing and cursing are deriued from bonum and malum good and euill And therefore as we conceaue good and euill to proceede from the bountie or Iustice of God so must we recken his blessings and curses to be None is good but onely God that is all true goodnesse is naturally supreamely infinitely and vnchangeably in God as likewise all true blessednesse is Neither can any thing haue any degree of true goodnesse or blessednesse but onely by deriuation from God and by participation with God Capable of God that is of the holinesse and happinesse that is in God and commeth from God are no Creatures but men and Angels since only they haue cognition and fruition of his true goodnesse and blessednesse To omit the Elect Angels that haue their measure of heauenly light and power grace and loue righteousnesse and holinesse ioy and securitie in the continuall presence and seruice of God when God decreed to reueale him selfe to Man he gaue him a reasonable Soule endued with vnderstanding and will to discerne and desire the goodnesse that is in God and by louing and obeying Gods righteousnesse to haue Communion with his blessednesse The better to declare him selfe to man God gaue him a Bodie to be quickned by his Soule with Life sense and motion as a Tabernacle for the Soule to dwell and worke therein and made heauen and earth and all the furniture thereof for the vse delight and safegard of his Body thereby to assure Man of his exceeding care for man and bountie towards Man which were not onely wonderfull causes of thanks but euident proofes of greater fauour and honor reserued for him in the heauens if he loued and serued the Author and giuer of these earthly things The integritie then and safetie the sanitie Actiuitie and perpetuitie of mans Body free from all dangers distempers decases diseases and death The excellent beautie plentie vtilitie and varietie of the Creatures seruing mans vse obeying mans Rule and increasing mans delight were all the maruelous blessings of God on man not onely testifying to him the wisedome power and glorie of the Creator by their natures properties and forces but leading him by the eyes eares and all other senses to the admiring embracing and honoring of that great and mightie Lord that by these pledges proposed himselfe with all his spirituall and vnspeakable riches to be the spouse of mans Soule and reward of his loue He therefore that denieth or doubteth these to haue beene the blessings of God on man when he first made man and so to remaine at this present is an vnthankfull and wicked abuser and despiser of Gods goodnesse and bountie towards him selfe and all mankind The gifts of God on the Soule of Man were farre worthier then those corporall and externall blessings For God gaue vnto Man reason and vnderstanding to behold the greatnesse and withall the goodnesse of God and free will to cleaue fast vnto him without preferring any Creature before him or matching any thing with him as likewise affections to inflame the hart with burning and vnceasing loue Man feeling no defect nor finding any impediment in that innocencie tranquillitie facilitie and consonancie of all the powers and parts of the Soule and body to the knowledge loue and seruice of God But none of the gifts and graces of God either outwardly prouided for man or naturally ingraffed in mans Body or Soule did make Man truely blessed For had he beene truely blessed by these he could not so wretchedly haue fallen from these into the Seas of miseries and heapes of curses with which he was after for sinne ouerwhelmed Wherefore we must resolue that as God is onely truth because he is by Nature immutable and onely blessednesse because no euill can approch him so no blessing can rightly be called true but that which is perpetuall nor full but that which is free from all miserie Saint Austen saith wisely Nullo modo poterit esse vita veraciter beata nisi fuerit sempiterna By no meanes may any life be TRVELY blessed except it be EVERLASTING And againe Veritas immortalis est veritas incommutabilis est Truth is eternall truth is vnchangeable And so Ambrose Creaturae non potest esse veritas sed species quae facile soluitur atque mutatur There can be no truth but a shew in the Creature which is easily lost and changed And therefore Austen expoundeth beatam vitam stabilem id est veram a stedfast that is a true blessed life For how can that be thought a true blessing which may end in euerlasting wretchednesse True blessings then there are none but such as ioyne vs to God who is the true fountaine of all true blessing that without any separation or defection from him we may be partakers of him By true blessing we shall best vnderstand what true cursing is for as EVILL is no contrarie nature to GOOD but onely the defect or priuation of good so there is no true curse to vs but that which bereaueth vs of our true blessing Malum non secundum essentiam sed secundum priuationem rectissime dicitur Euill is most rightly sayd to be no essence but the priuation of good To cleaue fast to God who is only and wholly our good is the true blessing of men and angels and consequently to be seuered from God and to loose all communion with him is the true curse of men and angels The true blessings of God bestowed on his children though they be indeed infinit yet may they be reduced to these three summes according to the times wherein they were are and shall be performed that is TO THE LOVE of God freely affourded vs before the world whereby we were elected and adopted in Christ Iesus our Sauiour TO THE LIKENESSE of God which we haue in this world where we are conformed to the image of his Sonne by the working of his Spirit our sinnes being remitted that diuided vs from God and our hearts sanctified with the faith and loue of his trueth and to THE IIFE of God which after this world shall be reuealed and imparted vnto vs in the heauens where shal be perfect blessednesse without want of any good or feare of any euill The priuation of these three blessings bringeth three euils which are maine and true curses to the wicked
threatened to the people and promised to Moses the next what Moses did or could desire for them God did not threaten presently to execute damnation on all the people there were many thousand children amongst them that knew not what idolatrie meant but he would temporally destroy that whole nation and raise Moses to a greater number than they were Neither may we thinke that God then would make a new number of predestinate and assure the kingdome of heauen to all Moses ofspring without reiecting of any one of them but that he would giue the land of Canaan whereof he spake to their fathers vnto Moses and his posteritie Against this Moses pleadeth two things vnto God HIS GLORIE lest the Egyptians should blaspheme and say o Exod. 32. v. 12. he brought them out in malice to slay them in the mountaines and to consume them from the face of the earth and HIS PROMISE when he p Vers. 13. sware by himselfe to Abraham Isaac and Iacob to multiplie their seed as the starres of heauen and to giue them all the land of Canaan to inherit for euer So that Moses intreateth God to regard his owne glorie and trueth and not in that sort to reuenge the peoples sinnes by rooting them and their seed from the earth And touching Gods offer vnto him he so farre preferred his care of Gods glorie and mercie towards the Israelites before his owne dignitie safetie and posteritie that he desired God if the people were destroied from the earth to rase out him also and his posteritie that he might not see the ruine of his nation and heare the reproch of Gods name Moses doth not meddle in this place with Gods eternall and secret predestination which he knew was immutable and wherof the Egyptians neither had neither could haue any knowledge and therefore so to conceiue Moses words as if God should euerlastingly damne him if he presently damned the people is a construction full of presumption and impietie Moses did not say So thou wilt spare them condemne me but if thou wilt not forbeare them destroy me and mine also Wherein you may make Moses so madde which God forbid that he would goe to the diuell for companie but you can not shew by his words that he desired his euerlasting damnation might be their eternall saluation Moses was too well learned in Gods mysteries to thinke that he could be the Sauiour of that people or that his soule was a meet price for their redemption he refuseth all his personall honour which was great in Gods sight his present life and future hope for all his ofspring in the land of Promise rather than he would see the destruction of that whole multitude committed to his charge This I take to be the true meaning of Moses words and the booke there of which he speaketh to be Gods ãâã decree to haue him during their abode in the desert to be the leader and ãâã of his people and his seed after him to inherit with the rest of the Israelites The words of Paul q Rom. 9. v. 3. I did or could wish my selfe separated from Christ for my brethren according to the flesh somewhat differ from the words of Moses and may receiue Pauls wish for the Iewes considered euen by Grammar a double sense the first actuall and absolute the second potentiall or conditionall It is euident to euery man but meanly acquainted with the Greeke tongue that the verbe ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã is the praeterimperfect tense Indicatiue and regularlie signifieth I did wish in times past and since neither ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã is added to it nor ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã before or after it in the same sentence there is no necessitie to make it Potentiall as if he had sayd I could or would wish Since then the wordes naturally serue the first sense I did wish myselfe ãâã from Christ for my brethren the Iewes and many learned and ancient Interpreters and Expositors haue so rendred both the words and the meaning of the Apostle in that place I do not see what ãâã argument can thence be framed The time was when he so wished to support any of those more than strange conceits which here you would establish The ãâã translation sayth r ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Wishing I was The Commentaries vnder Ieroms name s ãâã i ca. 9. ad Rââ¦m Optabam aliquando cùm ãâã Christum non modo ãâã I did ââ¦o wish when I persecuted Christ I would not now so ãâã So Ambrose t ãâã os in ãâã 9 ãâã Rom. Optabam inqââ¦it non opto I did wish it sayth Paul I doe not presently wish So Primasius u ãâã 9. ad Rââ¦m Optabam ãâã non nunc optarem I did wish it somtimes I would not now wish it And Sedulius u ãâã 9. ad Rââ¦m Optabam inquit non opto I did I doe not wish it Against this exposition can nothing be brought that is not easily answered Paul taketh Christ and the Holie Ghost as witnesses to his owne conscience that his heauinesse was great and the griefe of his heart continuall for his brethren the Iewes in regard of the good which he wished them in Christ and his desire to haue them saued And how farre this zeale and affection for his people did carie him before to runne headlong against Christ and to do his vttermost to be a cast-away from Christ for their sakes themselues did discerne by his sharpe and eager persute of Christes Church He therefore euer was and yet is a zealous well-willer to his owne Nation though he were now called to be the Teacher of the Gentils Those that referre this speech to the time when Paul wrote to the Romans must first haue leaue to supply the text with a Potentiall particle in Greeke called ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and If Paul ãâã ãâã the time when he wrote ââ¦is wordes wââ¦re conditionall then to adde certaine conditions vnto ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã which is if must be vnderstood correspondent vnto ãâã to make the difference betwixt the Indicatiue and Optatiue Moods For when a man sayth he could or would wish this or that he meaneth If there were not some stoppes to hinder his desire And so the Apostles words if they be Potentiall they import some necessarie respects that stayed him from actuall ãâã so much They then which would haue the Apostle to speake Optatiuely I could wish my selfe to be seuered from Christ for my brethren doe vnderstand so as it were pleasing to God possible for me and profitable to them For no man of any sense or iudgement doth hence conclude as this Defender doth that it was possible Paul was too great a Diuine to thinke that Gods eternall counsell and election could be changed for any mans priuate desires or wishes but he declared as they suppose how willing he was to renounce all the honour hope and happinesse that Christ had called
li. 33. Distemper Touching my alleadging their griefe for Gods people I doe not vse to venture on such desperate conclusions as you doe To my purpose it was sufficient that they both were e Rom. 9. grieued at hart with great and continuall heauinesse for their Nation which are the vndoubted and vnquestioned words of Paul and causes of Moses Prayer farder I did not goe but from that care and sorrow of theirs I obserued it both lawfull and likely for the Messias as he was man to be inwardly and deepely troubled in his affection with the present and perpetuall ruine of that people for his death by taking his bloud vpon them and their children And this standeth sound and good whatsoeuer become of your newe and notable collections which shew your small Iudgement and lesse truth in points of Diuinitie f Defenc. pag. 96. li. 34. Secondly we see here that there may be possibly a death of the Soule a curse and separation from God which is in it selfe neither siane nor conioyned with sinne necessarily but meerely a suffering of punishment from God for the sinnes of others imputed Contrarie to you also pag. 73. 310. yea generally euery where You remember belike the olde rule Ex impossibili sequitur quodlibet from an impossibilitie supposed any thing will The second errââ¦r drawââ¦n from their example follow and seeing your selfe destitute of all proofes for your new Doctrine you will needs make lotteries of impossibilities and thence draw what you like best For taking a plaine impossibilitie for your maine ground you thereupon frame vs foure obseruations as impossible as the first supposition And this absurd wandring from all truth and faith you would haue the Reader Note as a speciall demonstration of your discretion and vnderstanding in matters of Religion Suppose as you doe that God through his omnipotent power may turne heauen into hell and reuerse all that he hath decreed and prouided for the different rewards of pietie and impiety and you may soone prooue what falsitie you will by flying from Gods counsell and truth to his power and might But Christian religion teacheth not whatsoeuer is possible to Gods power but what is ordained by his will and reuealed by his word Otherwise what heresie can you name touching Gods works in his creation or redemption of the world that defendeth impossibilities to Gods power setting aside all respect of his will and truth This therefore is the high way to vphold all falsities and impieties to oppose Gods power against his will and word and to beleeue he hath done whatsoeuer his almightie power is able to doe Concerning the death of the Soule though here be no place to speake largely of it it is double by the confession of all Diuines and euen of the Scriptures themselues For as the places are diuerse where men doe abide here and else where in this life and the next so the life which the Soule enioyeth is proportioned to the place where she continueth God in his wisdome and goodnesse hauing so prouided that whiles she gouerneth the body here on earth she should be partaker of him by the grace of his spirit and hereafter in the kingdome of heauen she should haue the full fruition of him by the manifest reuelation and communion of his glorie Likewise the death of the Soule preuaileth in this life by sinne which is the naturall depriuing or voluntarie renouncing of all grace and in the world to come by damnation which is the iust reiecting of all the wicked from any fellowship with God in his glorie and the fastning them to euerlasting torments in hell fire Gods actions in either of which are most iust and holy for he withdraweth and denieth his grace when it is refused and excludeth them from all accesse to his blessednesse that heere on earth despised both him and it adiudging them to the iust desert of their sinnes in euerlasting flames But neither of these can possibly take hold of man without sinne committed or inherited And therefore your imagining a death of the Soule without sinne is a supposing of things impossible since neither Moses Prayer nor Pauls wish in that sense which you follow were possible as all Diuines both new and old confesse g Chrysost. ãâã 16. in ca. 9. ad Roâ⦠Paul wished saith Chysostome to be separate from Christ ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã if it were Paul wished if it were pââ¦ssible and lawfull possible And againe Therefore am I grieued saith Paul ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and if it were lawfull or possible to be separated and estranged not from the loue of Christ ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã farre be that from me to wish because he did this for loue but from that fruition and glorie I could admitt it that my Lord should not be blasphemed Photius as he is collected by Oecumenius Ibidem thus expresseth Pauls wish h ãâã ãâã ãâã ca. 15. in 9 ca. ãâã ad Romanos Paul saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã that if it were possible by my destruction for Christ to be glorified and the Iewes to be saued I would not refuse it I could wish it sayth he ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã if it might be if it were lawfull if that choise were giuen me I would preferre the glory of Christ and the saluation of manie before mine owne The new writers that take Anathema for a separation from Christ as Chrysostome doth adde the same conditions which he doth confessing it neuer the lesse to be simply impossible The iudgements of Peter Martyr and Zanchius we saw before Aretius repeating this exposition amongst others saith Or els i Aretius in ca. 9. epist. ad Romanos separated from Christ that is euerlastingly damned if that were possible that with the losse of one soule the saluation of manie thousands might be redeemed The affection of those that speake louingly proceedeth often to things impossible For of it selfe neither was it possible that the Apostle with his destruction should redeeme the vnbeleeuing Iewes and it had beene wicked so to thinke since the merit of Chrââ¦st alone is propitiatorie neither was this lawfull for the Apostle to offer himselfe to be a Redââ¦mptorie sacrifice for the saluation of others but the Apostles affection is to be considered wishing impossibilities vpon an honest desire Piscator in his Scholies vpon that Chapter to the Romans k Piscatoris Scholia in ca. 9. ad Rom. I did wish for I could wish Nempe si licââ¦ret sulua pietate meaning if it were lawfull so to doe without breach of pietie Beza l Bezae Annotationes in 9. ca. ad Rom. This is very much to be obserued that Paul doth not say he did so wish at any time but he was so affected that willingly he could be content to redeeme the destruction of his nation with his owne nempe sisieri sic potuisset meaning if that might possibly be And therefore it is a needelesse
his owne most free and fore-determined will would he then so mournefully grieue and complaine thereat It hath no reason nor likelihood in it You runne your selfe out of breath and quite besides the way You shall not need to perswade me that Christ was resolued and willing to die I perfectly beleeue it and easily confesse it but how as he himselfe declared the spirit was willing the flesh was weake The minde of Christ apprehended and persued all these things which you mention but that excludeth not the naturall dislike which Gods will is all men should haue of death This imperfection of mans nature since it pleased Christ to taste as well as the rest of our infirmities and affections you may by no respects nor rewards make the weakenesse of Christes flesh to which he submitted himselfe the Weaknesse appered in Christs flesh but willingnesse in his spirit same or equall with the willingnesse of his spirit which had and shewed the abundance of all grace Wherefore I maintaine both in Christ a voluntarie sense of the weaknesse of our flesh and an heauenly strength of the inward man which expressed but ouerballanced the naturall desire of the outward man in Christ. And still you harpe on that one string which is vtterly out of tune that he would not do it So extreamly and So mournefully This extremitie is only your fansie for I say Christ did it meekely obediently and faithfully assuring himselfe that his Father who all this while had tried his patience would at his prayer not onely end his paine but make heauen and earth to witnesse what account God made of him though for a season he left him in their hands to be made a sacrifice for our sinnes u Defenc. pag. 111. li. 15. Lazarus when he was returned from the ioyes of heauen to take againe his rotten carcase yet he grieued not at it nor ought he so to haue done When you sincke in reasons you ascend to reuelations Who tolde you that the soule of Lazarus was in the ioyes of heauen when Christ raised his bodie from the graue Christ placeth the soule of the other Lazarus that died at the rich mans doore in Abrahams bosome to be comforted and doe you take vpon you to place this Lazarus that was brother to Marie and Martha in the very ioyes of heauen Where was his soule those foure dayes you will aske It is not for you to aske nor for me to answere The things after this life and out of this world it is not lawfull for me or you farder to enquire then the Scripture reuealeth That such as are raised from the dead should be able by experience to report the ioies of heauen or the paines of hell or the secrets of Gods kingdome is a thing not permitted by God as we find by Abrahams answeare to the rich man praying that Lazarus might be sent to his fathers house God hath places and Angels enough to keepe the soules of such as he meaneth shal be returned to this life though it be neither in hell nor in heauen From hell no man is released and from heauen no man is dismissed that hath once seene God face to face When x 1. Cor. 13. that which is perfect is come then that which is in part shall be abolished sayth the Apostle And will you aduenture to abolish perfection after it is come and to bring men backe to this mortall life that haue seene God in the fulnesse of his glory whom no man liuing can see depriuing them of that vision perfection and brightnesse which the ioyes of heauen haue in them It is an enterprise meet for such an encounterer as you are Paul liuing was taken vp into y 2. Cor. ãâã the third heauen euen into Paradise where he ãâã ãâã which he might not vtter Was Paul then in the ioyes of heauen I trow not For he sayth Lest I should be exalted out of measure through the abundance of reuelations there was giuen vnto me a sting in the flesh euen the messenger of Satan to ââ¦uffit me If the abundance of reuelation would so exalt Paul when he was but taken vp into Paradise that he needed the messenger of Satan to humble him how would the ioyes of heauen and cleercnesse of Gods face beheld in his glory exalt men that should afterward liue againe in this wretched world And therefore this is like the rest euen a bolde assertion of things vnknowen whereas God wanteth no meanes nor places extraordinarie to detaine the soules of such as shall in his counsell returne to this life without knowing the secrets or possessing the ioyes of heauen z Defenc. pag. 111. li. 22. If your Fathers proue any thing towards your meaning it is this because that he complained of his bodily dying Howbeit they say not that he thus complained only and meerely The Defender ãâã the Fathers proue my meaning for that Neither do I thinke will you plainly holde this NEITHER DO VVE DENIE THE OTHER If the Fathers meaning be which you now consesse that Christ on the crosse complained because of his bodily dying then proue they as much as I produced them sor and your admitting this exposition of theirs sheweth that all this while you idlely sought to subuert their assertion with your strong allegation as you supposed to no purpose since now you denie it not And where you pretend they say not ONLY and meerely for that you come too late with your exception For since Christ made no complaint on the crosse but this My God my God why hast thou forsaken me if in that he complained because of his bodily dying as you do not denie then all proofe for your hell paines out of those words is quite excluded aswell by their opinion as by your owne confession And your making Christs complaint on the crosse to be a Pa. 111. li. 22 improbable yea vnlawfull conuinceth you by your owne mouth that within the compasse of fiue lines you are contrary to your selfe and charge Christ with vnlawfull mourning which amounteth to as much as sinfull As for mine opinion what respects Christ might haue in that complaint of his I haue before deliuered so that your so grieuing and so mourning only and meerely for that is but a sillie refuge when you can not otherwise resist the trueth b Defenc. pag. 111. li. 32. 28. These Fathers had no purpose here to exclude the suffering of Christes soule but only to denie that his Godhead suffered They stroue here with heretikes whose controuersies were farre from our question Indeed the heretikes against whom they wrote tooke great holde of these places on which you build your hell paines and because they were Heretikes alwayes vrged the same places whiââ¦h the Desender doth somewhat darke and doubtfull they stumbled many weake Christians with them euen as you doe Their purpose I know was to proue Christ no God in nature because he feared and sorowed in
110. li. 28. exceeding generall and constant ioy and had as Dauid foreprophesied of him i 34. constant and continuall ioy in God was there no feeling of all this triumph and ioy so exceeding constant and continuall May a man be so franticke as to confesse that Christ felt all this and yet to say he had no comfortable feeling This may be called the death of the soule To him that calleth light darknesse good euill faith feare ioy discomfort this may seeme death which by all the rules of the sacred Scriptures is called the life of the soule heere on earth but by no man that vnderstandeth or careth what he sayth can this be called or defended to be the death of the soule k Defenc. pag. 113. ãâã ãâã As it is life to the soule to feele and to enioy the glory of God Psal 16. 21. so it is death to feele the want and absence thereof vtterly Hauing abused the Fathers at your pleasure you offer now the like if not worse to the Scriptures The sixteenth Psalme vers 11 not 21 as you quote it sheweth vs that there is a way to life reuealed here on earth but the fulnesse of ioy is in Gods presence when we shall behold his face as the Angels doe in heauen The way to life is grace wherewith Christ was replenished from his mothers wombe and in greater measure then all his members For he had the fullnesse thereof in this life where the perfectest men haue but a measure thereof and we l Iohn 1. all haue receaued of his fulnesse The plenty of pleasure which is at Gods right hand is euerlasting glory both of soule and body into which Christ entred after his Resurrection How doth this prooue that Christs soule was dead during the time of his Paââ¦sion if a man would seeke out a place to confirme the contrarie he cannot light on a better For these words pertaining directly to Christ on the crosse conclude that euen in the midst of his sufferings m Psal 16. v. 11 the waies of life were made knowen to him by God and that after his rising againe God would Replenish him with the ioy of his countenance which was euerlasting glory in the heauens The one he possessed the other was promised more then which the soule of man cannot enioy in this life Now except this be your rage rather then your reason that all mens soules are dead till they come to behold God face to face in the heauens I see not what you can hence collect touching the death of Christs soule The contrarie may be soundly concluded out of this place For the wayes of life were made knowen to him here on earth and by him to all men liuing since he prosessed himselfe to be the n Iohn 14. Way and the Truth and the Life and the promises of God to him as farre exceeded all honour and glory reserued for men as it was possible for the head to excell his members o Defenc pag. 113 li. 1â⦠This heauenly life Christ tasted a while in his transsiguration this death he felt besides his bodily death on the Crosse. If Christ neuer tasted an heauenly life but in his transfiguration then all the time of his conuersing heere on earth he felt your hellish death and not in his passion only but what madnesse is this to affirme either of Christ or of his members that their soules are dead till they come to behold Gods face in the glory of his Kingdome If these be your best proofes for the death of Christs soule ãâã heed you be not estrââ¦nged from the life of God through the ignorant wilfullnesse or your heart that thus confound heauen and earth life and death to maintaine your fansies against both Fathers and Scriptures But of the death of Christs soule we shall haue better occasion afterward to speake when we come to handle it at large where I will by Gods grace let the Reader see how resolutely and absolutely the Fathers ioyning with the Scriptures repell the death of Christs soule as a pestilent point of false doctrine vnlesse we take it as a figuratiue kind of speach which is nothing to the principles of our faith nor to the true price of our Redemption since we must not conuert the truth of Christ to figures and phrases p Defenc pag. 11. li ãâã Your fourth exposition for any thing I see may be granted for it seemeth to be the same in effect that we hold If the fourth exposition be granted then two of your chiefe ãâã ãâã of ãâã ãâã on the ãâã grounds on which you raise your hell paines suffered in the soule of Christ vtterly sincke For then Christ spake these words of his members not of his owne person and it was no such dolefull and vncomfortable mourning and ãâã his owne soule as you suppose but a praier full of power fauour and grace whereby the sonne of God auerted from vs the separation that was betwixt God vs and made peace in heauen and earth reconciling man to God that before was forsaken of him q Pag. 113 li. 2â⦠Was it remooued from vs then surely it was laid on some body els Now that must needes be vpon himselfe You fall to rouing in steed of reasoning Euerlasting death and hell fire it selfe were remooued from vs. On whom then were they laid Desperation confusion reiection were likewise remooued from vs. Were they therefore laid on Christ ãâã of sinne and corruption in the graue shal be likewise remooued from vs. Were these also laid on Christes person or did he suffer the very same that we should keepe such reasons for your hellish mysteries they haue no force in true religion nor I think with any sober or well aduised reasoner The punishments of this life imposed on all mankind Christ suffered for vs and by them freed vs from euerlasting damnation and destruction which were the due wages of our sinnes He therefore paied a price for vs which was the shedding of his bloud vnto death on the Crosse and by that ransomed vs from the captiuitie and miserie that otherwise were appointed for sinne r Defenc. pag. 113. li. 30. Where you obiect Athanasius that he could not be forsaken of his Father who was alwaies in his Father it is meerely wrested Athanasius speaketh against Arius also that Christs deity could not be for saken of his Father and so was not inferiour to his Father What talke you of wresting that neuer yet conceaued any Fathers words rightly no more then you doe that of Athanasius which I brought You catch at a piece and runne your way as though you were cleerely acquited but returne to the text and looke on the rest with shame enough Who was he that spake those words Why hast thou forsaken me I trust he was the sonne of God though now incarnate who before his incarnation was equall with his father in the forme of God Els Peter was
you must bring stronger stuffe then such wordes as besides their diuers significations haue manie figuratiue translations and applications which will not serue you to conclude any thing for your hell paines suffered in this life These are the mightie proofes that were vnanswered which indeed I neglected as prouing nothing and so would yet haue donne had not you so mouthly called for an answeare as if the things had beene verie materiall which in truth are weake and faint u Defenc. pag. 119. li. 31. The confession and behauior of the reprobate do sundry times in this life testifie so much What is their confession in things which they know not euen as much as your assertion That they are somtimes inwardly and fearefully either tormented by satan or by their owne consciences I easily admit but what is the feare of hell either in the elect or in the reprobate to the true paines thereof which the wicked after this life shall feele that they feele an horror confounding them I neuer denied as also the godly may feele a terror pursuing them but if you determine this to be all the torment the wicked shal find in hell you were best take heed of deluding Gods iudgments against sinne and playing with fiery words in steed of euerlasting fire It is another manner of torment that there abideth the damned then this guilt of conscience remorse of sinne and a fearefull expectation of iudgement and fire in which the wicked sometimes lead their liues with horror and confusion and yet it is open blasphemy to ascribe any of these horrors or feares of the reprobate vnto Christ since they vtterly quench all persuasion of Gods fauour loue and patience towards them which if we affirme of him we wrap him within their reprobation x Defenc pag. 119. li. 32. The Diuels are many times out of the locall hell as when they are in this world But Diuels are neuer released of hell sorrowes Therefore the true sorrowes of hell are euen in this world and then possibly may be inflicted on wicked men as they are on Diuels which are sometimes out of the locall hell We speake of men here liuing on earth and you runne to Diuels ranging in the aire or compassing the earth for proofe of your hell-paines Which is as much as if you did plainely confesse you can find no Scripture to prooue that mortall men in this life may endure the torments of hell For the example of Diuels inferreth no more the paines of hell to be suffered of men in this life then the presence of elect Angels here on earth doth prooue that men in this life may enioy the perfection of Gods heauenly ioies and glory since the angels of God whithersoeuer they goe or wheresoeuer they are cannot be depriued or diminished of that inward power and light blessednesse and glory in which they are confirmed for euer With Angels elect or reprobate men after this life shall haue a resemblance and conuenience the faithfull saith Christ shall be a Matth. 22. as the Angels of God in heauen and the cursed are cast b Matth. 25. into euerlasting fire prepared for the diuell and his angels But in this life except we will waxe mad we must make no equiualence betwixt their estates and ours So that from the diuels condition to mans in this life there is no consequent more then the imitation and communion of his wickednesse in the reprobate whose children they are because they fulfill his desires and an expectation and feare of his punishment Otherwise as the earth is neither heauen nor hell no more is mans life on earth matchable with the ioyes of the good or paines of the bad Angels which haue the place of their abode determined and assigned them in heauen or in hell saue when they are sent or loosed by God to attend the execution of his will And yet if the place of hell had no greater nor other paines then the diuels alwayes carrie with them and in them why should they so much feare to be a Luc. 8. v. 31. sent into the deepe or b Iudae epla v. 6. be reserued vnto the iugdement of the great day and c Peter 2. ca. 2. kept vnto damnation feare they without cause or are they kept and reserued to no more nor worse paines then already they feele That is no reseruation where there is nothing but a continuation of the very same that was besore It is certaine therefore howsoeuer you presume the contrarie that the place of hell hath greater paines euen for the diuels then they feele any heere on earth or before the last day and howsoeuer their inward confusion and desperation doe horribly persue them in all places since their fall yet a more fearefull torment abideth them in hell and especially when the last iudgement commeth which is the set time that shall torment them by addicting and fastning them to eternall and intolerable fire Yet the sorrowes of hell are in the world By such logicke you may prooue the paines of hell to be in heauen and the ioyes of heauen to be in hell and so make a full confusion of all things which well becommeth your newe found faith For the Scriptures beare witnesse that Satan not only c Luc. 10. fell from heauen but made his d Reuel 12. battell or rebellion in heauen and after his fall e Iob 1. stoode among the children of God and euen with f 1. King 22. the host of heauen g Reuel 12. There was a battaile in heauen saith Iohn Michael and his Angels fought against the Dragon and the Dragon fought and his Angels But they preuailed not neither was their place found any more in heauen And the great Dragon called the diuell was cast into the earth Therefore reioyce ye heauens and ye that dwell in them Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea for the diuell is come downe vnto you with great wrath knowing that his time is short h 1. King 22. I saw the Lord sit on his throne saith Michaiah the Prophet and all the host of heauen stoode about him on his right hand and on his left hand Then there came foorth a lying spirit and stoode before the Lord of whom the booke of Iob testifieth that i Iob 1. v. 6. when the children of God came and stoode before the Lord Satan came also among them Certaine it is that Satan and his angels sinned euen in heauen and were cast out of heauen after their defection from God carrying alwayes with them and within them the losse of their originall brightnesse and the chaines of inward and fearefull darknesse whereby they find themselues reiected from Gods sauour despoyled of their former light and glory and reserued for the iudgement of the great day at which they tremble as well as at the place of their perpetuall imprisonment where their torments are and shal be increased though
and loue God as the great and chiefe reward the Lord saying when he appeared visible to the eyes of their bodies promised himselfe inuisible to be seene of cleane hearts he that loueth me shal be loued of my Father and I will loue him and will shew mine owne selfe vnto him n Defenc. pag. 120 li. 7. The transfiguration of Christ on the mount declareth that some reall part of heauenly glory may be heere on earth which you your selfe somewhere confesse cleane against your selfe You would needes tell vs in you Treatise that heauen was some foretaste of the infinite ioy prepared for the godly which you attempted to prooue by the Apostles words common to all the children of God and thereupon concluded thus you o pa. 80. li. 23. see that as there is heauen in this life in some measure euen so there may be hell I replied that if you p Conclu pag. 337. ãâã 34. affirmed of heauen as you did of hell that the VERY SAME IOYES which are in heauen or EQVALL with them are heere sometimes found in vs liuing on earth it was a wicked error flatly repugning to the trueth of Gods promises and to the very nature of our Christian faith and hope We reasoned not of Christs manhoode which q Colos. 1. in all things had the preeminence aboue and afore all the sonnes of God but OF THE CODLY whom you expressely named and of whom I accordingly replied and to whom those words of the Apostle cited by you for proofe of your purpose doe precisely pertaine For of Christ they are most false that his eye neuer saw nor his eare neuer heard nor his hart neuer conceiued the things which God hath prepared for them that loue him Now when you should prooue that mortall men and no more then men though the members of Christ liuing heere on the earth haue THE VERY SAME IOYES which are in heauen or EQVALL with them you run to Christes transfiguration on the mountaine and by that you would inferre that there was heauen euen in this life in some measure But first where can you shew that Christes transfiguration on the mountaine is called heauen in the Scriptures Next what deriuation can you make from Christs power knowledge and glory to ours heere on earth Christs soule had many parts and degrees of heauenly perfection in this life which ours haue not he was free from sinne and error which abound in vs he was full of trueth and grace which want in vs saue what we receiue from his fulnesse he was the way the light and the life that leadeth lightneth and quickeneth euery man comming into the world yea the crosse of Christ was the wisdome and power of God These and many other maine differences the Scriptures expresse betwixt Christ and vs so that from his perfection and preeminence to our weakenesse wickednesse and wretchednesse in this world no comparison can be made nor any consequent but that beleeuing in him louing him and obeying his commandements as we are heere regenerate and renewed by his spirit so we shal be conformed to his image to raigne with him in the next life if we suffer with him in this life Christs transfiguration then is not called heauen in any Scripture neither had it the perfection or condition of heauen since heauen is not a transitory taste of mutable ioy or glory but a full and euerlasting possession of all power honour and blisse communicable from God and proportionable to the receauer But if Christ had the reall fruition of heauen in his flesh heere on earth how much more in his soule which was alwaies full of trueth and grace light and life and hauing so reall a tast as you speake of and so immeasurable a fulnesse of life and grace as the Scriptures speake I greatly maruaile how you come really to place hell and heauen in one soule together and specially in the soule of Christ on which you inflict the very substance of hell paines when yet the abundance and continuance of heauenly ioy could not want in him As for my somewhere confessing cleane against my selfe that Christ transfigured in the mount tasted of that heauenly glory prepared for him I see not how that crosseth any thing auouched by me in the 337. and 338. page by you noted You shall do well when you challenge contrarieties not to let the report rest on your crackt credit but produce the words that your Reader may be iudge of both You are sharp enough to catch hold of any thing if there were any cause I called indeed Christs transfiguration on the mount a taste of that heauenly ioy prepared for him I called it not heauen A taste of things neither abideth nor sufficeth which heauen fully doth therefore it is rather a contradiction then a confession of your conceit For if you thinke that Christs heauenly glory may be defectiue or mutable as his transfiguration was you broch a wicked and impious error Christs transfiguration did not exempt him from feare sorrow shame and death following which if you imagine of his glorification in heauen it is a right hellish impiety And whatsoeuer we affirme of Christ touching his preeminence aboue all the children of men as that he was free from sinne and full of grace and had the perfect knowledge of Gods trueth and will aboue men and Angels I hope you will not deriue it to his members heere liuing in the flesh least you leaue no ground of Christian religion vnshaken r Defenc. pag. 120. li. 10. Onely this you haue to obiect touching men that faith and hope is the euidence of things not seene neither are our greatest ioyes the same nor equall to them which we shall possesse in the next world I haue also to obiect that it is not lawfull for you nor for any man liuing to determine of Gods kingdome without his warrant nor to auouch that to be heauen which the Scriptures doe not Take heed it is no pastime to play with heauen and hell as you do without better aslurance than you haue Know you not what that learned Father sayth s Tertullianus de praescrip aduersus haereticos Nobis nihil ex nostro arbitrio indulgere licet It is not lawfull for vs that be Christians to deuise any thing of our owne heads But t Cyril de fide ad Reginas li 2. it is necessarie for vs as Cyril sayth to follow the diuine Scriptures and in nothing to depart from their praescription u Defenc pag. 120 li. 14. I answere our reasons before do proue more than only hope in the faithfull sometimes And I replie that none of your reasons do any way proue the ioyes of heauen Gods answere to Moses must stoppe your mouth and the presumption of all such as you are x Exod. 33. Thou canst not see my face for there shall no man see me and liue Moses saw as much as in this mortall life any
momentarie transfiguration of his bodie and to neglect and ouerskippe the constant and continuall ioy and glory of his soule which far better deserued the name of heauen than the change of his bodie t Defenc. pag. ââ¦21 li. 2. We grant the ioyes of heauen here are nothing equall to those hereafter only we say the very same in nature may be and are by the effectuall working of Gods gratious spirit in his elect reuealed in some measure and sometime euen in this world Neither is this as your charity speaketh any lewd or wicked error My charity serueth me and my duty bindeth me to tell you that if you of your owne head without the word of God will make an heauen or defend that to be heauen which is imperfect mutable and often defiled not with misery and death only but with weakenesse and wickednesse also you maintaine an euident and pestilent error The graces of God are heauenly aswell because they are giuen from heauen and direct to heauen as also they assure men of heauen but the measure of grace or ioy which we haue heere on earth is not the heauen which we are willed to beleeue and expect where our reward is and where an incorruptible vndefiled and immutable inheritance is reserued for vs and whence we looke for our Sauiour Your distinction that our ioy is the very same in nature though not in measure which is in heauen is not only false but a void and idle refuge For the ioy of heauen The name of Nature in the graces of God and ioyes of heauen is a vaine distinction is the plaine vision of Gods face which bringeth with it a present perfect perpetuall and plenary possession of all light power loue holinesse and happinesse deriueable fââ¦m God which in this weake fraile sinnefull and wretched life no man hath nor can haue And therefore though there be the knowledge loue and ioy of God both in this life and in the next yet the differences are so many and so great that no man of any reason or vnderstanding will make the one to be the other for some agreements in some points whereas in the whole there is not only a substantiall difference betwixt them which is the sight of Gods face but so many parts effects and consequeÌts in the one which are not in the other that it is more then folly to make the one by pretence of nature to be the same with the other All ioy in nature is the same if by nature we meane the generall definition therof for ioy is the impression or inward sense of good present or instant yea hope is in nature all one with ioy since in hope there is ioy as in feare there is paine and in hope we reioice yet no considerate diuine will confound hope and ioy together because they differ but in time much lesse make the ioies in this life which are defectiue mutable and permixed with our infirmity misery and iniquity the very same in nature with the ioies of heauen which are abundant constant and sincere in all parts and effects of brightnesse mightfulnesse righteousnesse and blessednesse which men can possibly comprehend when they come to the presence of God The sight of God by his creatures by his iudgments by his word and by himselfe is the same in the generall nature of knowledge yet are there as great differences betwixt them as betwixt darkenesse and light The Apostle saith u Rom. 1. The inuisible thinges of God that is his eternall power and godhead are seene by the creation of the world considered in his workes and that which may be knowen of God is manifest in them Shall we then say the heathen haue the very same knowledge of God by his workes which the Angels in heauen haue by the sight of himselfe the Diuels know him also by his workes by his word and his iudgements x Ionas 2. Thou beleeuest saith Iames That there is one God thou doest well The Diuels also beleeueââ¦t and tremble Yea they know Christ to be the sonne of God y Luc. 4. I know who thou art said the Diuell to Christ euen the holy one of God Shall we then thinke that the Diuels faith is the very same in nature with our Christian faith of many castawaies which fall away from the grace of God and receaue it in vaine the Apostle saith z Heb. 6. They were once lightened and tasted of the heauenly gift and were made partakers of the holy Ghost and tasted of the good word of God and of the powers of the world to come Shall we auouch these reprobates were in heauen in this life because they had once the very same graces in nature which the elect haue If our knowledge doe differ in this life and the next Our loue and ioy do follow our knowledge then doth our ioy likewise differ From our knowledge of God riseth our loue of God and our ioy in God For we can neither haue loue nor ioy of that which we know not but as our knowledge increaseth so doth our loue and ioy And therefore when we see God infallibly as he is then shall we loue him vnfainedly as we ought and reioice in him vnspeakeably euen as much as we are capable of not by the strength of our nature but by the working of his power Till then as our knowledge is darke and in part so our loue is weake and our ioy is faint but then shall these very thinges not only rise to an higher degree and be of another nature but be replenished with all parts of light power and blisse without which we may defend nothing to be heauen indeed howsoeuer wee may vse figuratiue speaches to comfort or encourage the godly As then worke and wages labour and rest sowing and reaping running and obtaining striuing and crowning abroade and at home doe differ euen in nature so faith and sight hope and haning promising and performing that is our state in earth and heauen doth likewise differ though it be one and the same thing which is now promised beleeued and hoped for and which hereafter shal be receaued attained and enioyed a Defenc. pag. 121. li. 7. Now then if more then hope only euen heauenly ioies may be on earth surely it followeth that likewise more then feare euen hellish paines themselues may be in men on earth also If the ioies of heauen be not only constant in nature but perfect in measure and consist in the sight of Gods face which no man shall see and liue then certainly the ioies of heauen are not in this life imparted to any mortall and sinnefull man And though that might be which yet God expressely denieth shal be yet the other is no conââ¦quent that the paines of the damned may be likewise in this weake and fainting flesh because ioy is an affection that preserueth this life and paine if it be violent and aboue our strength presently seuereth the soule
from the body Take an example of this fire which we see and know If it be not possible without a miracle from the mighty hand of God for flesh to abide or life to dure in the paine of burning and flaming fire how lesse possible is it for the wicked on whom God sheweth no such wonders to liue and continue in the paines of the damned whiles they are heere fastened to the flesh b Chrysost. ad Theodorum lapsum epââ¦st 5. Hic quidem non simul contingit vehementia poenarum earum diuturnitas Altera enim cum altera pugnat propter conditionem corruptibilis huius corporis non ferentisea In this life saith Chrysostome the violence of paines and the continuance thereof cannot stand together The one fighteth with the other by reason of this corruptible body which cannot beare both And againe c Idem ad Populum Antioch homil 49. Name fire or sword or any thing that is more grieuous then these yet these are scant a shadow to those torments d Defenc. pag. 121. li. 16. And if hell paines in this world may be in any much rather may they be in Christ whom God purposely sent through paines and afflictions the extreamest that might be to be consecrated the Prince of our saluation If the true paines of hell might be in others here liuing yet in Christs soule they might not be since his soule had alwaies greater inward ioyes of the holy Ghost which you call heauen then any man here liuing on earth could haue except your learning serue you to put both the ioyes of heauen and the paines of hell at one and the same time in the soule of Christ. As for your proofe when you shew that the paines of hell are sacred and holy then bring them to consecrate the Prince of our saluation Till then refraine this apparent collusion to make Christ both obedient and astonished patient and ouerwhelmed in the paines of hell and learne that God tried the obedience and patience of his Sonne by the things which he suffered and so consecrated or consummated him to be the Prince of our saluation who must be conformed to his image to suffer with him not the pains of hell but the miseries and afflictions of this life with all obedience to the will and counsell of God if we will reigne with him e Defenc pag. 121. li. 14. 19. If you say yet thus it will follow that the extreamest paines of hell are not to be found in this world as the hiest ioyes of heauen are not likewise by my confession I answere I know not neither meane I to determine the measure and depth of sorowes which Christ in his Passion suffered Either you change mindes with the windes or he that wrote this wrote not that which went before In the 52 page of this booke li. 25. you prated apace that Christ suffered a sense of Gods wrath EQVALL to hell it selfe and ALL THE TORMENTS thereof And in the 15 page li. 16. you solemnly concluded whence it must follow that the paines of Christs suffering were the same in nature and ALTOGETHER AS SHARPE and as painfull as they are in hell it selfe Now you know no such thing nor meane to determine it It were good you tooke vpon you to know lesse of your hellish mysteries till you were more assured of them or better learned in them This floting vp downe like the waues of the sea shew that either diuers mens pens haue beene in your papers or that vnquiet buzzes are in your owne braines who sometimes can not nor will not and yet somtimes can and will determine and pronounce the paines of hell suffered by Christ to be EQVALL to hell and all the torments thereof and AS SHARPE as the sharpest in hell But your Reader if he be wise will see you more constant in your owne conceits before he giue any credit to them and lesse maruell that men fallen from the trueth thus reele to and fro f Defenc. pag. 121. li. 22. Only grant this plainly that Christ suffered in his soule the true effects of Gods proper iustice and wrath and we seeke no more Tell me first what you meane by the effects of Gods proper iustice and wrath and then from what Scripture you deriue it and you shall soone see what I grant Only say you no more than you haue expresse warrant of the holie Ghost to beleeue and I aske no more With the name of Gods proper wrath you haue plaied a long time and a number haue deceaued them selues For as it is most true that God would haue laid none of these things which Christ suffered on his owne sonne but displeased and angrie with our sinnes for which he was to satisfie the Iustice of God least our iniquitie should seeme a matter of dalliance and easily ââ¦uerpast so it is as true that God neither was nor could be wroth and offended with the person of his owne sonne in whom he was well pleased and for whose sake he was reconciled to vs but that the chastisement of our peace being imposed on him who for the innocencie and excellencie of his person was able to tolerate and mitigate the wrath of God prouoked by our sinnes he made the purgation of them by that kind of satisfaction which was conuenient both to the dignitie and safetie of his person and argued apparantly the loue of God towards him and his loue towards vs whiles he put him selfe in the gappe by his owne smart to auert and appease the iust wrath kindled against vs. Now what this chastisement was wee may neither of vs nor any man els seeke farder then the holie Ghost hath deliuered that g 1. Cor. 15. Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures and h Philip 2. became obedient to the death euen the death of the crosse which is plainly described by the Euangelists and should not be questioned by any that is not more wedded to his conceits than to the word of God i Defenc. pag. 121. li. 31. Though Christ suffered all which he did suffer here in this world yeâ⦠for any thing I can see there is cause why Christ should be an extraordinarie person in the case of suffering for sin in this life and that therefore as touching sorow and paine he might feele more than euer any els hath or could feele for the time He was an extraordinarie person indeed as being the true and only Sonne of God that is both God and man in one person bearing the burden of our sinnes in his bodie but appropriating or accounting the same to the dignitie of his person that by his death he might abolish him that had rule of death and restore vs to life by his humilitie and obedience which was so precious and glorious in the sight of God that he accepted it as a full sacrifice and satisfaction for all our sinnes and made him the authour of eternali saluation
if it were possible that houre might passe from him Then he came and found them sleeping and said to Peter Couldest not thou watch one houre Watch ye and pray that ye enter not into temptation What signes or words are here of astonishment continuing astonishment stoppeth speech and motion as well as sense y Rhetoricorum ad Herââ¦nnium li. 4. Omnes stupidi timore obmutuerunt They all amazed with feare were mute sayth the heathen Oratour And so the Poet z Plautus in Epidiââ¦o Quid stas stupida quid taces Thou amazed thing why flandest thou still why art thou tongue-tied Yea Galen himselfe giueth euident testimonie that men amazed with feare neither speake nor doe any thing but stand still with their eyes open a Galenus in Aphorismos Hippocratis li. 7. apho 14. ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Amazednesse is when men neither speake nor do any thing but abide silent with their eyes open like to men astonished with feare So that if Christ were astonished with feare or amazed he could neither haue done nor sayd any of those things which the Gospell reporteth he did and sayd and therefore vnlesse you can alter the rules of nature as you doe of Scripture Christ was in no such astonishment as you dreame of neither did his memory faile him in speaking those words for then how could he not haue rememââ¦red that they were spoken amisse and needed correction as you conceiue them Your selfe acknowledge that he might be It helpeth not you I sayd if we should so interpret the word which S. Marke vseth that Christ began to be afrayd or somewhat astonished for if b In verbo ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã be ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã to admire some sudden or strange sight as Phanorinus auoucheth then might our Sauiour approching Gods presence now sitting in iudgement to redeeme the world easily finde cause both of admiration and feare and yet be free and farre from suffering your hell paines And where you say my words are vtterly vntrue that c Defenc. pag. 123. li. 13. many things might astonish our Sauior for the time besides such paines they are truer than any thing you haue yet spoken or will speake of his astonishment For whether we respect the sight of his eyes or the apprehension of his minde he might either way beholde many things woorthie of that feare or astonishment which the Scripture describeth in him d Zanââ¦hius de Incar Christi li. 2. quaest 11. Thesi 2 de scientia Christi pa. 302. If with the eyes of his bodie cleered with diuine light Christ being in earth sayth Zanchius could see the things in heauen and being in heauen doth see what he will in earth as he saw and heard Steuen saying Lord Iesu receiue my spirit he saw and spake to Paul persuing him in his Church how much more can and could the soule of Christ see particular things in the word which is his Godhead So that either the eyes of Christ or the minde of Christ might beholde or consider the glory of Gods iudgement whereof he spake when he sayd e Iohn 12. Now euen at hand is the iudgement of this world or the greatnesse of mans sinne or power of Gods wrath or the vengeance deserued from which he was to ransome man and for which he was to satisfie God all these things might in more likelihood in some sort astonish the humane soule of Christ than the paines of the damned presently then inflicted on him with Gods immediate hand as you imagine but are no way able to proue saue by your owne conceit And therefore your second obseruation that these infinite incomprehensible and incomparable paines which you meane astonished is but the froth of your fansie for you shall neuer be able to iustifie any such thing by the text or historie of the Euangelists f Defenc pââ¦g 123. li. 20. Thirdly adde heereunto that which you rightly grant that it is true a mighty feare may so affect a man for the time that it shall hinder the senses from recouering themselues and stoppe the faculties from informing one another Likewise afterward astonishment draweth the mind so wholy to thinke on some speciall thing aboue our reach that during the time we turne not our selues to any other cogitation You take this to be true that I said and so do I but this vtterly subuerted your former position which now you recant that g Treat pa. 53. li. 32. Christ could not but be astonished forgetfull and all confounded in his whole humanity botâ⦠in all the powers of his soule and senses of his body If Christ according to your desperate doctrine were all consounded in his whole humanity were not his vnderstanding and memory confouÌded aswel as other parts of his humane nature If he were all confounded in all powers of his soule and senses of his body as your wicked error imagineth are not vnderstanding and memory powers of the soule and did not I charge you iustly and truely with casting Christ into an infernall confusion for the time since in hell it selfe they can be no more but all confounded in their whole manhoods both in all the powers of their soules and senses of their body Tell what confusion in hell is or can be more then all in all and I will yeeld I did you wrong If you cannot then bethinke your selfe how lewdly and loosely you aduentured all to confound Christ in all the powers of his soule and senses of his body in which case whether you leaue sense memory or vnderstanding vnconfounded in Chist I leaue to the censure of the discreet Reader h Defenc. pag. 124. li. 1. I say as you say he now on the suddaine might turne neither sense nor memory to any other obiect and so not thinke on any thing els but onlie on this terrible and mighty sorow and feare Your helpers haue aduised you to recall that forgetfulnesse and all confusion in all the powers of Christs soule senses of his body which before you sounded out with such waine loades of wordes as was maruailous and now you be come to say as I say that there was no confusion in the powers of Christs soule nor in the senses of his body but an intentiââ¦e cogitation on some fearefull or sorowfull thing which for the time so detained the powers of the soule as on a matter most importing and nearest touching the state of himselfe either in soule or in body that he did conuert them to no other obiect If you say thus with me then must you say farder with me that as soone as Christ beganne to vse speach or conuert his cogitation to praier this astonishment was eased and howsoeuer feare was not altogether dispelled yet he could no longer be said to be amazed or to seeke what to doe For praier to God without the mind intending and attending it is sinne which might not be in Christ and
man of any learning or vnderstanding thus in print and open view of the whole Realme to rage revell rush on with lying craking and facing when he speaketh not one true word for first Sir flincher is this the point heere or any where proposed by me whether Christs sufferings were only bodily did I promise or produce any Fathers to that end is it not the death of the soule and the paines of the damned which I impugned in Christs sufferings haue I not most truely performed which I euer professed that the whole Church of Christ for so many hundred yeeres neuer thought neuer heard of the death of Christs soule in the worke of our redemption but rested their faith on the death of Christs body as a most sufficient price both for the soules and bodies of the faithfull What cunning then is this first to shift your hands of that you can no way prooue though you still doe and must professe it and then to clamour at me for drawing the Fathers cleane from their intent and meaning is this the way to credit your new Creed by such deuices and stratagemes to intertaine the people of God least they should see how farre you be slid from the ancient primatiue Church of Christ take a while but the thought of a sober man and this pangue will soone be ouerpast Did you not vndertake to prooue the death of Christs soule by Scriptures which indeed I first and most required and haue you so donne looke backe to your miserable mistakings and palpable peruertings of the words of the holy Ghost and tell vs what one syllable you haue brought sounding that way are your secrets such that they be no where reuealed in the word of God must all faith come from thence and is your faith exempted that it shall haue no foundation there are men and Angels accursed that preach any other Gospell then was deliuered and written by Christs Apostles and shall you be excused for deuising a new kind of redemption by the death of Christs soule no where witnessed in the Scriptures you see how easie it were to be eloquent against you in a iust and true cause but words must not winne the field What I impugned my sermons will shew what I haue prooued I will not proclaime If I haue failed in that I endeuoured the labour is mine the liberty is the Readers to iudge Let the indifferent read it they shall find somewhat to direct them let the contentious skanne it they shall see somewhat to harle their hast and perhaps to restraine their stifnesse What euer it be I leaue it to others since the discourser hasteth towards an end and so doe I. s Defenc. pag. 146. li. 2 This is the profit that comes by ordinarie flaunting with Fathers which many do frequent in these dayes Thinke they if the Scriptures alone suffice not for things in religion that the Fathers will suffice or if the Scriptures may be wrested by subtle heads that yet the Fathers can not Is it not enough for your selfe to be a despiser of all antiquitie and sobrietie but you must insult at them that beare more regard to either than you do If to flaunt with Fathers be so great a fault which yet respecteth their iudgements that haue beene liked and allowed from age to age in the Church of Christ what is it to fliske with pride and follie grounded on nothing but on selfe-loue and singularitie It were to be wished that euen some of the best writers of our age as they thinke themselues had had more respect to the auncient Fathers then they shew we should haue wanted a number of nouelties in the Church of God which now wee are troubled withall as well in Doctrine as in discipline This course of concurring with the lights of Gods Church before our time in matters of faith though you mislike other manner of men then you are or euer will be haue allowed and followed as u August contra Iââ¦num li. 1. Augustine x Theodor. diol 2. 3. Theodorete y Leo epist. 97. ãâã Leonem Leo z Cassi. de incarnat Domini li. 7 ca. 5. Cassianus a Gelas. de duabus in Christo natââ¦ris Gelasius b Vigilius li. 5. cap. 6. Vigilius and the two c Hispalensi concilium 2. ca. 13. councels of Hispalis and others not doubting the sufficiencie of the Scriptures but shewing the correspondencie of beleeuing and interpreting the Scriptures in all ages to haue bene the same which they imbraced and vrged And in all euennesse of reason were it better to feede the people with our priuate conceits pretended out of Scripture or to let such as be of iudgement vnderstand that we frame no faith but such as in the best times hath bene collected and receiued from the grounds of holy Scripture by the wisest and greatest men in the Church of God your only example turning and winding the words of the holy Ghost to your owne conceits will shew how needfull it is not to permit euery prater to raigne ouer the Scriptures with figures and phrases at his pleasure and thence to fetch what faith he list If you so much reuerence the Scriptures as you report which were to be wished you would why deuise you doctrine not expressed in the Scriptures Why teach you that touching mans redemption which is no where written in the word of God Indeed the Scriptures are plaine in this point of all others what death Christ died for vs if you did not peruert them against the histories of the Euangelists and testimonies of the Apostles Omit the description of his death so farely witnessed by the foure Euangelists what exacter words can we haue then the Apostles that Christ d Coloss. 1. pacisied things in earth and things in heauen by the bloud of his crosse and reconciled vs which were strangers and enemies in the bodie of his flesh through death Beleeue what you reade and what you reade not in the word of God beleeue not and this matter is ended but by Synecdoches without cause you put to the Scriptures not what you read in them but what you like best and by Metaphores and Metonimies you will take bodie for substance and flesh for soule And so where the Apostle auoucheth that we were reconciled to God through death in the bodie of Christs flesh you tell vs we could not be redeemed without the death of Christs soule and the essence of the paines of the damned suffered by suddaine touches from the immediate hand of God after an extraordinarie manner If you teach no doctrine but deliuered in the Scriptures aband on these deuices not expressed in the Scriptures If you content your selfe with the all sufficient word of God in matters of faith you must relinquish the death of Christs soule and paines of the damned as no part of our redemption since there is no such thing contained in the word of God To me and
after openly proclaime That Dauid was not ascended into heauen If it be so firme a promise as you pretend then Dauid as well as the rest must locally accompanie Christ whithersoeuer he went and consequently ascend to heauen with him which Peter vtterly denieth And all the Fathers of Christs church had little vnderstanding of Christs words when they generally denied that the soules of the Saints are yet in the same place of glory where Christ is If you beleeââ¦e not my report of them peruse their owne words following Irenaeus It is manifest that the soules of Christs Disciples shall goe to an inuisible place appointed them of God and there shall remaine vntill the resurrection and after receauing their bodies and rising perfectly that is corporally as Christ did rise shall so come to the sight or vision of God Iustine the martyr The soules of the righteous are caried to Paradise where they inioy the company and sight of Angels and Archangels and the vision of Christ our Sauiour and are kept in places fitte for them till the day of resurrection and recompensation Tertullian It is apparent to any wise man that there is a place determined which is Abrahams bosome for the receauing of the soules of his sonnes That region I meane Abrahams bosome though not heauenly sublimiorem tamen inferis yet higher then the places below shall giue comfort to the soules of the righteous vntill the end of things with the fulnesse of reward bring the resurrection of all men Heauen is open to no man so long as the earth remaineth together with the passing away of the world shall the kingdom of heauen be opened Origen The Saints departing hence do not presently obtaine the full rewards of their labours but they expect vs though staying though slacking For they haue not perfect ioy so long as they grieue at our errors and lament our sins For these saith Paul haue not yet receaued the promise God prouiding for vs a better thing that they without vs should not be perfect Hilarie The day of iudgement is the repay of euerlasting happinesse or punishment But the time of death till then hath euery one vnder his lawes whiles either Abraham or torment reserue ech man vnto iudgement Ambrose Till the fulnesse of time come the soules departed expect their due reward for some paine for some glory is prouided Chrysostom Though the soule were a thousand times immortall as she is those admirable good things she shall not enioy without her flesh If the body rise not againe the soule remaineth vncrowned and without that heauenly blisse Augustine After this short life thou shalt not as yet be where the Saints shal be to whom it shal be said Come ye blessed of my Father receaue the Kingdome prepared for you from the beginning of the world thâ⦠shalt not as yet be there who knoweth it not but thou maiest be there where the poore Lazar was seene afarre of by the proud rich man In that rest shalt thou securely expect the day of iudgement when thou shalt receaue thy body and be changed to be equall to an Angel Theodoret The Saints haue not yet receaued their crownes For the God of all expecteth the conflicts of others that the race being ended he may together pronounce all that overcame to be conquerers and so reward them Oecumenius All the fore said Saints haue not yet receaued the good things promised to the iust God prouiding better for vs. Least they should haue more then we in that they were crowned before vs he hath therefore appointed one certaine time that we should be crowned with them Andreas Caesariensis It is the iudgement of many godly fathers that euery good man after this life hath a place ââ¦itte for him by which he may coniecture the glory prepared for him Theophylact. The Saints as yet haue attained nothing of the heauenly promises God hath appointed one time to crowne all Bernard you perceaue there are three states of the soule the first in this corruptible body the second without the body the third in perfect blessednesse The first in the Tabernacles the second in the Courts the third in the house of God Into that most happy house of God the soules of the Saints shall not enter without vs nor without their bodies Neither doe I find any Scriptures that allow the Saints deceased the same place of glory where Christ now is at the right hand of God in the highest heauens till the last day come What Abrahams bosome is whither Lazarus soule was caried by the Angels or where it is I dare not define Only the Scripture faith it was a place of comfort after death and vpvvards farre of from Hell a great gulfe being set betweene that and hell Of Paradise where Christ promised the penitent Thiefe should be with him the very day that he died I read what Paul writeth how he was taken vp into the third heauen and into Paradise Whence we may rightly collect that Paradise is in the third heauen Now what number of heauens the Scripture deliuereth is not so certaine as some men suppose We find the whole region of the aire to be called Heauen as where Christ nameth the byrds of heauen and the clouds of heauen Againe that place of the firmament where the Sunne the Moone and the starres are is called heauen Let there be lights said God in the firmament of heauen to separate the day from the night And I will multiply thy seed as the starres of heauen The third heauen if I be not deceaued the Scripture maketh to be the originall and proper habitation of Angels where they were first placed and whence they fell that are now called Diuels The Angels which kept not their originall saith Iude but left ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã THEIR PROPER HABITATION hath Godreserued in euer lasting chaines vnder darkenesse vnto the iudgement of the great day In this celestiall Paradise which at first was the proper mansion of Angels as the Scripture obserueth there was not only place for sinne and danger of falling as we find by experience of the reprobate angels but after this was left an higher degree of perfection and a greater increase of glory as we perceaue in the elect Angels who were confirmed in goodnesse and aduanced to the presence of Gods throne there to behold the face of God in the proper place of his sanctity and maiesty Of this third heauen the booke of Iob saith God found no stedfastnesse in his Saints yea the heauens are not cleane in his sight since there he found sinne in those transgressing Angels which left their proper habitation and pressed with pride and disobedience to the throne of God This fault and fall the Prophet resembleth when he saith How art thou fallen from heauen ô Lucifer Thou saidst in thine heart I will
ascend aboue the higth of the clouds and I wil be like the most high * The last or highest heauen the Scripture nameth the Seat throne or habitation of God which is not only holy as whereinto no vncleane thing shall enter but is aboue all other heauens and often called the heauen of heauens In this is the presence of Gods throne that is a perpetuall and plaine reuelation of his diuine glory and maiesty which the elect Angels alwaies behold And heere is not only the fulnesse of ioy as in the presence of God but the stability security and satiety of euerlasting life and blisse to men and Angels without any defect doubt or danger of failing or decreasing In this they want nothing and besides this they desire nothing since in him who is all in all they find all things worthy loue delight and ioy Looke downe from heauen saith Esay to God and behold from the dwelling place of thine holinesse and glory And Ieremie The Lord shall crie from aboue and giue out his voice from his holy habitation Behold the heauens and the heauens of heauens containe thee not saith Salomon Praise the Lord from the heauens saith the Psalmist praise him in the highest Praise him all his Angels praise him all his armies Praise him heauens of heauens To this place when Christ ascended with his body the Apostle saith of him that he was made higher then the heauens and ascended aboue all the heauens and sitteth ââ¦t the right hand of maiesty in the high places Now two we call both not all but of three we first vse this word ââ¦ll And the Greeke tongue hath a speciall number for two which is the duall the plurall is applied to moe Besides Moses saith in the beginning before the light or firmament were created God made eth hashamaiââ¦m the heauens and the earth where by the name of heauen the best interpreters vnderstand the place appointed for the habitation of Angels and the reuelation of Gods glory Now the word hashamaiââ¦m in Hebrew being not the singular number must haue diuers maââ¦s in it as well as the aire and ãâã haue diuers regions and sphaeres to make the name of ãâã ãâã agree to either of them So that when Christ is said to haue ascended aâ⦠the heauens nature reason and Grammar besides Scripture seeme to teach vs that he ascended aboue that part of the third heauen where the Apostle noteth Paradise to be And consequently if the soules of the righteous deceased be in Paradise they are not as yet in the highest heauens where Christ sitteth in the glory of God his Father in whose house are many mansions and whether they shal be admitted at the last day when Christ shall come againe to take them vnto himselfe and to haue them for euer with him in the possession and communion of his kingdome and glory that they may be like the Angels To this difference of place and glorie before and after the day of iudgement the Scriptures incline as well as the Fathers if I mistake them not which I referre to the iudgement of the wise and learned S. Iohn saw the soules of the Martyrs Vnder the altar where they were willed to rest vntill the number of their fellow seruants were fulfilled But when crownes of glorie are giuen them as in the last day they shall stand in the presence of the throne of God and before the Lambe and he that sitteth on the throne will dwell among them Henceforth saith Paul is laied vp for me the crowne of righteousnesse which the Lord the iust iudge shall giue me at that day and not to me only but vnto all that loue his appearing Blessed be God saith Peter who hath be gotten vs again vnto â⦠liuely hope to an inheritance immortall vndââ¦filed which fadeth not away reserued in heauen for you which is prepared to be shewed in the last time Now are we the Sonnes of God saith Iohn but yet it doth not appeere what we shall be we know that when he shall appecre we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is that is aswell the glorie of his Godhead as of his manhood Then as Paul saith to all the faithfull Your life is hidde with Christ in God When Christ which is our life shall appeare then shall ye also appeare with him in glory And he shal say Come ye blessed of my Father receaue the kingdome prepared for you from the foundation of the world and not retaine the kingdome already possessed by you It were easie out of new writers to shew the same Master Calââ¦m shall suââ¦ce for al who vseth not ouersoone to concurie with the fathers when they diuert from the Scriptures The soules of the saints after death are in peace saith he because they are escaped from the power of the enemy But when heauenly Ierusalem shal be aduanced to her glory and the true Salomon Christ the king of peace shall sitte aloft in his iudgement seat then shall the true Israelites raigne with their KING This they may easily perceiue by the Scriptures whosoeuer haue learned to giue eare to God and heare his voice This also haue they deliuered to vs by hand who haue sparingly and reuerently handled the mysteries of God For Tertullian saith why should we not admit Abrahams bosome to be called a temporall receptacle of the soules of the faithfull And Chrysostom Vnderstand what and how great a thing it is for Abraham to sitte and for the Apostle Paul to expect vntill he be perfected that then they may receaue their reward For vntill we come the Father hath foretold theÌ he wil not giue them their reward Art thou grieued because thou shalt not yet receaue it what should Aâ⦠doe who ouercame so long since and yet sitteth without his crowne what Noe and the rest of those times for behold they expected thee and expect others after thee They preuented vs in their conflicts but they shall not preuent vs in their crownes because there is onetime appointed to crowne all together Augustine in many places describeth secret receptacles in which the soules of the godly are kept vntill they receaue their crowne and glory Bernard in two homilies made at the feast of all Saints where he handleth this question of purpose teacheth that the soules of the Saints departed from their bodies do stand as yet in the outward courts of the Lord being admitted to rest but not to glory Into that most blessed ââ¦ouse saith he they shall not enter neither without vs nor without their bodies Those that place soules in some part of heauen so they giue them not the glory of the resurrection to be shewed on them at the time of the resurrection and not before they differ nothing from the former opinion And in his institutions Since the Scripture euery where biddeth vs depend
vnto hell that we should not abide in hell Ruffinus Eousque ille miserando descendit vsquequo tu peccando deiectââ¦s es Christ descended of mercie to the very place whither thou wast deiected by sinne Fulgentius It remained to the full effect of our redemption that the man which God tooke vnto him without sin should descend euen thither whither man separated from God fell by desert of sin that is to hell where the soule of a sinner vseth to be tormented and to the graue where the flesh of a sinner vseth to be corrupted yet so that neither Christs flesh might rot in the graue nor his soule be ââ¦ormented with the sorrowes of hââ¦ll Cyrill The powers Principalities and rulers of the world which the Apostle numbreth none other could conquere and carie into the desart of hell but only he who said be of good hope I haue ouercome the world Therefore it was necessary that our Lord Sauiour should not only be borne a man amongst men but also descend to hell that he might carie into the wildernesse of hell the goate that was to be led away and returning thence this worke perfourmed might ascend to his father Caesarius Arelatensis Aeterna nox inferorum Christo descendente resplenduit attonitae mentis obstupuere Tortores The euerlasting darkenesse of hell was made bright with Christs descending thither the tormentors inwardly stroken were amazed Prudentius Tartarum benignus intrat fracta cedit Ianua fertur horruisse mundus noctis aeternae chaos Christ mildely entred hell breaking open the gates the world shooke at the opening of Chaos of euerlasting darkenesse Arator Infernum Dominus cum destructurus adiret Sol ruit in Tenebras arua tremunt concussa locis saxa crepant tartara moesta gemunt quia vincula cunta quiescunt Mors ibi quid faceret quo vitae portitor ibat When the Lord went to hell to destroy it the Sunne was darkned the earth shooke the rockes claue in sunder Hell mourned to see her bands loosed But what could death doe there whither the bringer of life came Petrus Chrysologus Mortem suscepisse vicisse intrasse inferos redijsse venisse in iura Tartari Tartari iura soluisse non est fragilit as sed potestas To suffer death and to conquere it to goe to hell and to returne to come within the lawes of the dungeon of hell ââ¦nd to dissolue the lawes therof is not weakenesse but power And thus he maketh Christ to speake after his resurrection to his Disciples Ego ex mortuis sum vinus ex infernis sum supernââ¦s Ego sum quem mors fugit inferna tremuerunt Tartarus Deum confessus est I am aliue from the dead and come vp from those below I am he whom death fled from hell trembled at and the dungeon of hell confessed to be God Maximus This day of Christes resurrection which the Lord hath made penetrat omnia vniuersa continet coelum terram Tartarumque complectitur pearceth all places conteineth all compriseth heauen earth and the dungeon of hell For that Christ the true day lightned heauen earth and the deepe of hell the Scripture witnesseth There should be no end of alleaging if I should cite all that speake to this purpose These be auncient and sufficient to prooue this refuter a fabler in affirming that the Fathers with one voice auouch Christ went no whither but where his faithfull and holy seruants were whom the Fathers did not thinke to be in the torments of hell nor in the place of the damned and to shew that I teach none other sense of the Creed then all these Fathers and infinit others did before me Neither can they be shifted off as this Trifler vseth to decline them who name Hades that they ment the world of soules which might be as well in heauen or paradise as in hell since they speake of Christes descent after death to that place where there was euerlasting darknesse and amazednesse of diuels bondage and punishment of sinners deliuerance from destruction an happie and mightie conquest ouer enemies with such like circumstances which by no meanes can agree either to Paradise or heauen or to any other place but onely to hell where these things are found and no where else And if new writers may be regarded I could bring as many or moe of them of great learning and good iudgement confessing and allowing this exposition of the Creede which I follow that Christ descended into Hell to destroy Satans power and force ouer his and to free them all from comming thither as concurrent and consonant with the sacred Scriptures and namely refelling your fansie that Christ went no whither but where his faithfull and holy seruants were The very Catechisme which you would seeme so much to respect as if it were the publicke and authorised doctrine of this Realme maketh it needfull to beleeue that as Christs body was laid in the bowels of the earth so his soule separated from his body descended ad inferos to the places or spirits below that is to hell and with all the force and efficacie of his death so pearced vnto the dead atque inferos adeo ipsos and euen to the spirits in hell that the soules of the vnfaithfull perceaued the condemnation of their infidelity to be most sharp and iust ipseque inferorum princeps Satan and Satan himselfe the Prince of hell saw all the power of his tyrannie and of darcknesse to be weakned broken and destroied and contrariwise the dead who whiles they liued beleeued in Christ vnderstood the worke of their redemption to be performed and felt the fruite and force thereof with a most sweet and certaine comfort The Catechisme treating of Christs descent to hell mentioned in the Creed deliuereth this to be the sense thereof that Christes soule separated from his body descendit ad inferos descended vnto hell And least we should doubt what he meaneth by inferi he putteth inferos as a degree lower farder then the dead in saying Penetrauit ad mortuos atque inferos adeo ipsos Christ pearced vnto the dead and which more is euen to hell it selfe and maketh Satan to be Princeps inferorum the Prince of hell Who is no chiefe ruler either in heauen or Paradise but onlie in hell Againe he resolueth that together with the soule of Christ came the power force of Christs death as well to the faithfull which were saued by him as to the rest iustly condemned for their vnbeliefe and that the Diuell himselfe saw all the power of darckenesse afflicted and oppressed by Christ. More then this I do not teach so much the catechisme auoucheth to be part of the Christian faith and the meaning of that article in the Creed Christ descended into hell Peter Martyr likewise in the confession of his faith and exposââ¦tion of the Creed sayth As touching Christes soule as soone as it
vs though against the opinion of the Fathers that the soules of the holie Patriarks dead before Christ were not beneath but aboue Not in Limbo but with God in peace ioy and blisse euen in Paradise that is heauen Your certainties be your owne ouerhastie coniectures neither well vnderstanding your selfe nor others In the places which you quote out of my Sermons I say as Christ himselfe deliuered that the iust deceased were in Abrahams bosome which the wise man calleth the hand of God And that Abrahams bosome was vpward farre aboue hell as appeareth by the wordes of our Sauiour more I durst not determine Neither did I make Abrahams bosome to be Paradise or Heauen I had no warrant so to doe but the place whither the soule of the thiefe was caried the day of his death Christ calleth Paradise which the Apostle seemeth to make a part of the third heauen And heere were the soules of the righteous after Christes death except you thinke that Paradise was prouided only for the penitent thiefe which S. Austen counteth a great absurditie Thus much I said and still say as also that the faithfull departing this life rest from their labours and dwell with the Lord in places prepasred and appointed for them though as yet they haue not their house which is eternall in the heauens nor are clothed with life swallowing vp mortalitie But that the soules of the Patriarks were in heauen that is in the glorie of gods kingdome before the death and comming of Christ I haue no such wordes in any of the pages which you produce I vse not of things vnknowen to giue hastie iudgement I leaue it to God who hath many places of abode in his house and desire not to search into his secrets vnreuealed in this life Hence I conclude that Christes soule after his death ascended indeed and descended not downward beneath vs heere I heare your conclusion but I see no premises from which you may iustly inferre so much For though the soule of Christ might ascend after death if we respect situation of place in comparison of the earth yet because the Scriptures reckon no ascending but into the glorie of heauen otherwise the diuels that rule in the aire should ascend and the damned that come to iudgement shall ascend the Christian faith doth not say that Christ ascended before he descended And the apostle exactly obseruing the relation and application of those two wordes vnto Christ saith his descending was the first of the twaine that was performed This saith he that Christ ascended what is it but that he first descended into the lower parts of the earth Otherwise if you be disposed to play with the ascending and descending of Christes person bodie or soule before or after death you may finde vs many descents and ascents besides the two that are mentioned in our Creed The Nicene Creed saith of his person that for vs and our saluation he descended from heauen and was incarnate by the holy Ghost of the virgine Marie and of himselfe he saith I am the liuing bread which descended from heauen Then after his death his soule ascended as you say and so must descend againe before his body could be restored to life Now the apostle saith Christ descended into the lower parts of the earth and likewise must thence ascend before his resurrection And lastly after forty daies he ascended body and soule aboue all the heauens Heere are sixe descents and ascents if you list to controle the Creed but the Christian faith following the apostle noteth onely two his descending to hell or to the lower parts of the earth and his ascending aboue all heauens which were two materiall parts of our saluation after he tooke flesh and profitable for vs to know And though you stifly stand on this that Christes soule descended not downeward beneath vs heere Yet against the Creed and the apostles wordes that Christ descended to hell and to the lower parts of the earth no wise man will admit either your opinion or assertion howsoeuer you thinke you can make a florish with Dauids words who saith he was fashioned beneath in the earth of which we will speake when we come to examine the force of the apostles wordes Only except there be some speciall reason of good authoritie to the contrary which is the second point of importance heere to be considered Touching which thus I say without expresse and euident Scripture there is in the world no sound nor meet authoritie to disprooue our former reason or conclusion Your reasons raked out of the Scripture are such that no man need to regard they are miserable mistakings and palpable misapplyings of the Scriptures intending no such thing as you imagine and for the contrarie they are plaine enough and such as haue been receaued and reuerenced by all Christendom without exception till you and some others in our age started vp with figures and phrases to mince and manage the Scriptures to your pleasure They are ââ¦eely diuines that doe not know the names of heauon and hell of life and death of flesh and spââ¦it of Christ and of God may be diuersly taken and diuersly vsed euen by example of holy Scriptures but it is the high way to all heresie and infidelity to turne and wind euery word occurrent in the Scriptures after euery signification that may be found thereof in the old or new Testament without respect to the maine grounds of the Christian faith and to make Rabbins and Pagans to be the best interpreters of words vsed by the holy Ghost to expresse the mysteries of Christs kingdome And how come you now to be so strickt in this second question that without expresse and euident Scripture against which you cannot so much wrangle you will yeeld to nothing who were so licentious in the former that without all Scripture and against the Scripture you maintained a new kind of redemption by the death of Christs soule and his suââ¦ering the second death which if you stand to the word of God is eternall damnation of body and soule in hell fire you shew your selfe more then a Patriarke in the Church thus to coine new articles of the Creed without all warrant of the word and to cast out the old though confessed and continued since Christs time because you find some words to haue diuers senses at least with Iewish and heathen writers though not with Christians Austen himselfe auoucheth well and faithfully supposing there were no expresse nor plaine Scripture for Christes descending theâ⦠sayth he it were maruellous boldnesse that any should dare say he went downe to hell But the same Austen in the same place telleth you that euidentia testimonia infernum commemorant dolores euident testimones of Scriptures mention both hell and the sorowes thereof to which Christ came And for full proofe heereof he sayth euââ¦n in the same Epistle We can not contradict
either the prophesie which sayd Thou wilâ⦠not leaue my soââ¦le in hell which lesââ¦ââ¦y man should dââ¦e otherwise interpret Peter expoundeth in the Acts of the Apostles nor the words of the same Peter where he affirmeth that Christ loosed the sorowes of hell in which it was impossible he should be held Who then but an Infidell will denie that Christ was in hell All that you haue to say against this is that Iewes and Pagans to wit wicked Rabbins enemies to Christ and Poets ignorant of all trueth vsed the words Sheol and Hades otherwise than the whole Church of Christ without exception till our age receiued and beleeued them from S. Peters mouth and S. Lukes pen that ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã signifieth the foule and hades importeth hell put you from this shiââ¦t and you fall ââ¦ull within the compasse of S. Austens challenge that is of plaine infidelitie and theââ¦e be simple Sidemen to cleere you from that crime q Now I assume this and by Gods helpe shall make it manifest that there is in all the Scripture no one place whereby it may be prooued by any shew of reason that Christes soule after this life went locally downward from hence or diuersly from the soââ¦les of ââ¦ll good men deceased Though the opinion you hââ¦e of your ââ¦lfe be great yet when you come to condemne the whole Church of God ââ¦s ignorââ¦t of the Christian faith or altering the same you should vse some more modestie than to say they had not one plat ââ¦all the Scripture nor any shew of reason to beleeue as they did You preââ¦ume much of your Rabbins and Pagans preferring theiâ⦠enuioââ¦s and friuolous iââ¦aginations before the iudgement and faith of the whole Chââ¦ch of Chrââ¦st yet take good heed lest the better and elder sort euen of your owne Deponents receiue you not and so you test conuicted in the ââ¦ares of all good mââ¦n to be rather an insolent affecter of nouelties than any regarder of sobrietie or pietie Only there are two or thrâ⦠places sonsibly wrested to this pââ¦rpose First that Ephes. 4. where Christ is sayd to hââ¦e come downe into the lowest parts of the earth If that place be wrested from his right sense the Church of Christ from the beginning must be charged with that wresting Ireneuâ⦠citeth thoââ¦e very words of the Apostle that Christ descended to the lower parts of the earth and maketh them equiualent with the words of Dauid touching Christ Thâ⦠hast deliuered my soule from the nethermost hell saying Hoâ⦠Daââ¦id in cââ¦m prophetââ¦s dââ¦xit so much Daââ¦id in his prophesiâ⦠spake of him Tertullian alleaging the very same wordes of the Apostle concludeth Habes regionem Inferââ¦m subterraneam credere by this thou art to beleeue that the region or place of hell is vnder the earth Cyprian Descendens ad inferos captiuam ab antiquo captiuitatem reduxit Christ descending to hell brought backe the captiuitie that of old was captiuated Arnobius Postea vidit inferos longe factus est non solum à cââ¦lis sed ab ipsa Terra in abyssi profunda descendens c after his crosse he visited hell and became farre off not only from heauen but euen from the earth it selfe descending into the depth of the bottomlesse pit Chrysostom Christ descended to the lower parts of the earth after which there are none other And he ascended aboue all higher than which there is nothing Ambrose vpon that place of ââ¦aul After death Christ descended to hell whence rising the third day he ascended aboue all the heauens afore all men Ierom out of those words of the Apostle Christ descended to the lower parts of the earth first concludeth Infernum sub terra esse nemo iam ambigat Let no man now doubt but hell is vnder the earth And expounding the rest he sayth Qui descendit cum anima in infernum ipse cum anima corpore ascendit in coelum He that descended to hell in soule ascended to heauen with bodie and soule Primasius vpon the same words of Paul maketh the like collection Ergo sub terra est infernus Qui descendit cum anima in infernum ipse cum anima corpore ascendit ad coelos Therefore hell is vnder the earth And he that in soule descended to hell ascended to heauen in soule and bodie Photius To the lower parts of the earth after which place there is no lower he meaneth hell Dorotheus What is He led captiuitie captiue By Adams transgression the enemie made vs all captiues and had vs in subiection Christ then tooke vs againe out of the enemies hand and conquered him that made vs captiuâ⦠Erepti sumus igitur ab inferis ob Christi humanitatem We were then taken from hell by Christes humanity Theophylact At quem in locum descendit In infernum c. To what place did Christ descend To hell which he calleth the lowest parts of the carth after the common opinion of men Haymo First Christ descended to the lower parts of the ââ¦arth into hell and after he ascended to heauen He descended to hell in his soule alone and then he ascended aboue all the heauens in body and soule It must be noted by this that he sayth Christ descended to the lower parts of the earth he sheweth hell to be vnder the earth whence it is called Infernus because it is lower than the earth or vnder the earth Zanchius repeating diuers Expositions of this place addeth in the end The Fathers for the most part are of this opinion that Christ in his soule came to the place of the damned to signifie not in words but with his presence that the iustice of God was satisfied by his death and bloudshed and that Satan had no longer power ouer his Elect whom he held captiue that himselfe was made Lord ouer all and all power ouer heauen and earth giuen him and a Name aboue all Names that in the name of Iesu euery knee of things celestiall terrestriall and infernall should bow neither that he came thither only to signifie this in such sort as is sayd but also that he might cââ¦ie all the diuels with him in a triumph as it is Coloss 2. He spoiled powers and principalities and made an open shew of them leading them as captiues in a triumph by the vertue of his crosse by which he had purged sinnes and appeased the iustice of God Could he not haue done this without any such descent of his soule He could but he would be so farre humbled that his soule should descend into that most darke and wretched place though not there to suffer any thing but to beginne thence his triumph ouer the power of the Diuell And this opinion of the Fathers I dare not condemne since it is not repugnant to the sacred Scriptures and hath likely reasons The consent of the Fathers when it is not contrary to
soules of the dead are receaued to corruption or destruction so called for that they are neuer satisfied but alwaies expect more euer since man was adiudged to death for sin and though in the great conceit of your owne skill you tell me that my not considering or not caring for the vse and manner of the Hebrew tongue causeth my mistaking as in these places so likewise in all or most of the rest and causeth mine error in this maine question Yet I hope I shall let the Reader see in the end that proud ignorance leadeth you so rashly to resolue as you doe both of the words and places in question and likewise of my positions Mercerâ⦠a man of no meane skill in the hebrew tongue as appeareth by his paines therein taken in his additions to Pagnines Lexicon perused and published by Ceallere and Betrame two learned hebricians of our age obserueth that hoc nomine generaliter locasubterranea tendendo centrum versus appellantur the places vnder the earth euen to the middle or center thereof are generally called by this name Sheol as by another name of the same signification it is elswhere called Erets tachtith the lower or lowest earth Ezechiel 31 and often with an adiect sheôl tachtijah for explanations sake Proprie insernum dixeris ita vt locum significes Hinc cum verbo descendendi passiâ⦠iungitur Properly you may call it hell or the place below for which cause it is euery where ioined with a Verb of descending Forstere in his hebrew Dictionary repeating what others thought of the sense of the word Sheol as that some tooke it for the pit others for the graue some for death it selfe some for the state of the dead plurimi vero inferum id est locum damnatorum and the most tooke it for hell euen the very place of the damned addeth in the end I am of this opinion that I thinke it importeth in the Scripture most often the place where the dead are vnder the earth so called for that it cannot be satisfied as Lactantius in certaine verses of his seemeth to render that Etymologie of the word Inferus insatiabiliter caââ¦a guttura pandit Hell opcneth wide his vnsatiable throat Et aliter verti commodè non potest quà m nomine infernus and cannot be otherwise conueniently translated then by the name of Infernus hell or the places below Deuter. 32 A fire is kindled in my wrath and hath burned to the nethermost hell So doth Ezechiel vse another word of the same signification ca. 31. Thou shalt be cast downe erets tachtith to the lower earth Pagnine vnknowen to no man that is learned for his labours in the hebrew tongue saith Sheôl sepulchrum infernus Gehenna Sheol signifieth the graue hell Gehenna Munstere Sheolidem quod sepulchrum fonea infernus Sheol is as much as the graue the pit and hell Auenarius Sheol sepulchrum item infernus id est locus inferior sub terra St de impijs dicitur significat perditionem Sheol is the graue also hell that is the lower place vnder the earth When it is spoken of the wicked it signifieth perdition Lauater Sheol non tantum significat locum damnatoruÌ sed etiam foueââ¦m vel sepulchrum Sheol doth not only signisie the place of the damned but also the pit or graue And before them all Lyra well learned in the Hebrew tongue if not a Iew borne sayd Accipitur infernus in Scriptura dupliciter infernus which is the Latin translation of Sheôl is taken two waââ¦es in the Scripture one for the pit where the Carcasses of the dead are put the other for the place whither the soules of the damned descend The trueth of their iudgements that Sheol signifieth the places vnder the earth where the bodies and soules of the dead are receaued will appeare by the very confession of the Rabbins themselues as well as by the direction of the Scriptures Touching the situation of Sheol Rabbi Abraham saith Sheol mââ¦kom aamakhephec bashamaijm shehu marom Sheol is a deepe place opposed to heauen which is on hie And againe Sheol is the lowest place of the whole earth opposite to heauen Rabbi Leui. Sheol hi mattah bemuchalat vehi markez Sheol is absolutely below is the center of the earth And that with them it importeth hell I meane Gehenna the place appointed to torment the soules of the wicked there can be no question Rabbi Iehosuas the sonne of Leui deliuering the names of hel that are occurrent in the Scripture saith there be seuen names of Gehenna and these they are Sheol Abadon destruction Bor Shachath the pit of perdition Bor Sheon the lake of ruine or roaring Tith haiauen the bottom of the myre Zal-maueth the shadow of death Erets tachtith the lower earth In the exposition of the 11 Psalme there are repeated as places of abode for the wicked in Gehenna Sheol Abadon Erets tachtith Dauid Kimchi commenting on these wordes of the 9. Psalme sinners shall be turned to Sheol saith Vuederash lishola hu gehinnam and in derash Sheol is Gehenna Elias the Leuite in his Caldaie Lexicon sayth Veiesh Sheol Methurgemim gehinnam Sheol with the Translators or Interpreters is Gehenna The Caldaie paraphrase expressing those wordes of Dauid The shape or beautie of the wicked shall consume in Sheol but God will redeeme my soule from the hand of Sheol thus rendereth them Their bodies shall wax olde in Gehenna but the Lord will redeeme my soule from gehenna Rabbi Salomon likewise expoundeth Sheol in that place by Gehinnam So in the sixth Psalme it is sayd Whosoeuer is not circumcised iored Gehinnam goeth to Gehenna as Esay threateneth Sheôl hath enlarged it selfe Rabbi Moses Hadarsan vpon the first of Genesis Gehenna is sayd to be deepe as it is in the ninth of the Prouerbs In the deepe of sheôl are the ghests of an harlot The Hebrew glosse vpon those wordes of God vttered by Moses A fire is kindled in my wrath and shall burne to the nethermost Sheol sayth In my wrath that is in the midst of Gehenna as it afterward followeth and shall burne to the lowest sheôl Rabbi Ioden expounding the wordes of Dauid Thou hast deliuered my soule from the nethermost Sheol sayth The way of Adulterers leadeth to the deepe of hell and therefore he sayth Thou hast deliuered my soule from the nethermost sheôl With whom Rabbi Selomo concordeth The way of Adulterers is to be in the deepe of hell and thence hast thou delinered me sayd Dauid when Nathan sayd vnto me The Lord also hath taken away thy sinne And lest we should doubt what they meane by Gehinnam Elias the Leuite sayth Kareü Rabbothenu mekom ônesh hareshaim achar motham gehinnam Our Rabbins call the place of punishment for the wicked after their deaths Gehenna Neither want these Iewes that auouch Sheol
and specially the nether most Sheol to be below in the deepe of the earth to be opposite to heauen to be the place of punishment for the wicked after their deaths warrant in the sacred Scriptures to vphold these assertions For though Sheol extend to any place vnder earth that by Gods ordinance requireth or receaueth the bodies or soules of the dead in that respect to the godly it can be no more then the graue the losse of all things in this life consequent to the graue in that sense we must interprete Sheol when it is applied to the bodies or persons of the Saints whose soules are in rest and blisse with God not vnder the earth where Sheol is yet the ful force of that word wheÌ it is threatned to any or affirmed of the wicked noteth the pit of destructioÌ for their soules aswel as of corruption for their bodies the consequents of either the nethermost Sheol expressely designeth the place of torment appointed for sinners that die out of Gods fauour receaue the iust reward of their vnrighteousnesse The way of life saith Salomon is aboue to him that knoweth to decline from Sheol that is below Where first it is euident that as heauen is aboue in which is true and eternall life so Sheol which is the pit of death for bodie and soule is below vs which must needes be in the earth vnder vs. This partition of celestiall terrestriall and infernall persons and places the Apostle warranteth by this authoritie when he saith Euery knee of things ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã in heauen on the earth and vnder the earth should and shall bow at the name of Iesus And since the whole world is by the word of God in the creation conseruation and alteration thereof sufficiently deuided into heauen and earth the place of hell must of necessitie be either out of the whole world created by God and so no where or in heauen which is an impious absurditie and monstrous contrarieââ¦e or else it must be within the compasse of the earth and not being vpon the earth where men liue it must needes be vnder the earth whither the wicked descend when they die This distribution also Saint Iohn ratifieth when he saith None in heauen nor on earth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã nor vnder the earth was able to open the booke Wherefore the booke of Iob to expresse the infinitenesse of Gods perfection and wisedome vseth these foure comparisons The heauens are high what canst thou doe there It is deeper then Sheol how canst thou know it the measure thereof is longer then the earth and broder then the sea Where if we bee not wilfully blââ¦nd wee cannot choose but see that Sheol is not onely deepe but the deepest place in the world euen as heauen is the highest To compare the wisedome of God with the graue which is sixe foote deepe or not so much were most ridiculous since we commonly digge to that depth and deeper vpon diuers occasions And therefore Sheol is the deepest place in the earth to which no man liuing euer pearced to make report of the deepenesse of it Moses confirmeth the same when he saith sire shall burne to the lower Sheol and shall eate through the earth and inflame the foundations of the hils As the situation of Sheol is below vnder the earth that is in the bottome of the earth so is it a place threatned to the soules not onely to the bodies of the wicked though at length it shall receaue both Dauid putting a difference betwixt himselfe and the wicked saith Like sheepe shall they be laid in Sheol but God will redââ¦eme my soule from the hand of Sheol Dauid neuer drempt that his soule should bee in the graue nor that the soules of the wicked should there be laid much lesse that his bodie should be freed from the graue more then the bodies of such as knew no God at all Sheol then here as in sundry other parts of Scripture signifieth somewhat from which the godly shal be saued and whereto the wicked shal be euerlastingly adiudged But that is not the graue which is common to all men good and bad It was therefore the Sheol of soules from which Dauid hoped to be deliuered and which the wicked shall not auoyd And so are his very words The Lord will deliuer my soule from the power of Sheol Againe the full reward of wickednesse is not the graue whereto the godly come as well as the godlesse But Sheol is threatned in the Scriptures as the full and finall wages of all impietie neither is there any other note or name sor hell except metaphoricall throughout the Old Testament Wherefore when Dauid saith sinners shall be turned to Sheol and all nations that forget God he doth not threaten them with that which is generall to all Gods children but with that which is peculiar to all Gods enemies which must needes be hell and not the graue And so much Caluine himselfe who otherwise ouermuch vrgeth the right sense of Sheol to be the graue confesleth to be the true meaning of this place The Hebrew word Sheôlah to Sheol which was ambiguous I doubted not to translate by the name of hell For though it displease me not that others translate it the graue yet it is certaine that somewhat heere is noted by the Prophet besides the common death Otherwise he should say nothing of the wicked that should not indifferently agree to all the faithfull Obserue this rule which indeed is true that when the Scriptures threaten the wicked with Sheol they meane not the graue which is common to all the godly but that Sheol which is appointed for the wicked from which the faithfull shall be freed and you may spare all your figures and phrases wherewith you loade both your selfe and your Reader in this place to no purpose For there is a Sheol as Salomon noteth that shall swallow men aliue and whole which cannot be the graue where there lyeth but one part of man and that after his death And since the Scripture in exact tearmes maketh a lower Sheol which cannot be but in comparison of an higher with what face can you elude the lower Sheol to be nothing but the graue whereas one and the same thing cannot bee by any meanes both lower and higher in respect of it selfe And therefore howsoeuer you could shuffle with the name of Sheol without addition against both learning and trueth yet to auouch the lower Sheol to be onely the graue is onely a point of your accustomed impudencie which regardeth neither reason nor sense so long as you may ourface all with your priuate and witlesse fansie Come now to the place of Esaie the fourteenth where you so premââ¦rily pronounce that whatsoeuer others thinke the circumstances doe conuince the graue onely is there ment and see your owne follie if pride haue not so closed your eyes
is into hell Euthymius After death they shall descend to hell Lyra. Into the lower parts that is to Gehenna which is in the lower parts of the earth So Pellican They that seeke me to death shall fall on destruction and be rather thrust downe to hell Pomerane These things shew that all the endeuours of such as be enemies to godlinesse shal be frustrate and they shall descend to hell to euerlasting death Westhmerus followeth Pomerane word for word Bucer Dauid denounceth destruction to his enemies seeking his soââ¦le to death as that they should be cast downe to hell which he meaneth by the lower parts of the earth The verse ensuing fortelleth the reiection of their carcaââ¦es to be meat for Foxes Felinus insisteth on the very same words Mollerus They shall goe to the lowest parts of the earth that is they shall vtterly perish and descend to hell and their carcasses be cast abroad in the fields to be torne and deââ¦oured of wild Beasts Hauing now found by the circumstances of the Scriptures themselues as also by the iudgement of so many Iewish Rabbins Christian writers old and new expositors that your heaping vp of Hebrew phrases is but the vaine broching of your owne fansies and consequently that there is no cause for you to controle the full consent of so many learned Fathers as haue applied the Apostles wordes to Christs descent to the lower parts of the earth that is to hell which the Scriptures place vnder the earth Let vs see which of these two senses yours or mine best fitteth the apostles purpose Of yours I may safely say it hath no coherence with the wordes nor intent of the Apostle For these two verses the ninth and the tenth interposed wiââ¦h a parenthesis apparantly pertaine to the verifying of Dauids wordes cited immediately before in the eight verse that Christ ascending on high lead captiuitie captiue Before Christes ascending by way of relation the Apostle putteth Christes descending and because descending and ascending must haue contrary extreames from which and to which the motion is made therefore to the highest heauens aboue which Christ ascended Paul opposeth the lowest parts of the earth to which Christ first descended The end of his descending is comprised in Dauids wordes to leade Captiuitie Captiue which must be from the place of their chiefest strength euen as the end of his ascending after hee had led captiuitie Captiue was to giue gifts to men Now these two are the greatest blessings that Christ in this life bestoweth on his Church and in order follow one the other as Dauid first and after him the Apostle setteth them For we were first to be deliuered from our enemies and from the hands of all that hate vs I meane the enemies of our soules as Zacharie filled with the holy Ghost did prophesie we should before we could serue him without feare in holinesse and righteousnesse as wee ought to doe ââ¦ll the dayes of our life Deliuerance from the power of our enemies we had none but by Christs conquering them and leading them Captiue And full conquest ouer them Christ had none but by rising from the dead and treading vnder his feet all their power and strength not onely against himselfe but against all his And no place fitter to dissolue and breake all their force and might then in the chiefe castle of their kingdome which is hell seated in the lower parts of the earth So that this exposition of the learned and auncient Fathers which I before abundantly deliuered in their owne wordââ¦s is so farre from any iust challenge that it orderly and plainely lightneth and iustifieth the wordes of Dauid which the Apostle there taketh vpon him to illustrate Now in your exposition there is no such thing For first the graue is not in the lower parts of the earth nor opposite to the height of heauen whither Christ ascended according to the Apostles wordes Next Christ descending to his graue was rather lead captiue of death then shewed any conquest ouer death Thirdly before Christ many rose from the graue as well aunciently raised by Elias and Elizeus as then newly by Christ himselfe But this conquest which Dauid heere celebrateth was not ouer the graue onely but ouer hell Satan sinne death and all the power and feare of the enemie which Christ led Captiue leauing none vnconquered and made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in his owne person as the same Apostle elsewhere deliuereth Therefore this place must stand for good till you or your friends bring better helpes to vnioynt it then your and their idle phrasiologie gainsaying the whole Church of Christ for your priuate nouelties and vanities Where you expound the text and say he descended to the lowest and ascended to the highest that he might fill all places with the presence of his manhood you speake both inconueniently and farre from the Apostles meaning You adde to it with his presence very deceitfully in a differing letter like the text and together with the text What censure this deserueth the godly doe know What censure deserue you that cannot speake three lines without an open iniurie or manifest folly You first confesse I expound the text and then you charge me with adding to the text as if any man could possibly expound any place of Scripture and adde nothing to the wordes Then were plaine reading of the text the best expounding of it and so should all exposition be superfluous and iniurious as most of your expositions are And who besides you so deepely doteth as to charge an expositour with saying somewhat besides the text but I adde it in a different letter like the text and together with the text I cannot expound any place of Scripture but I must insert the wordes of the text which I expound and ioyne them together with mine owne The text I cite not three lines before exactly as it lieth in the apostles writings and set by the side the quotation of the place Ephes. 4. with a direction to the wordes alleaged by me out of the apostle I then reason from the true meaning of the apostles wordes who saith that Christ first descended to the lower parts of the earth and ascending on high lead captiuitie captiue Whence did Christ lead captiuitie captiue but from the lower parts of the earth If that were the purpose of his descending the lower parts of the earth were the place whence he lead captiuitie euen all his our enemies captiue And so I made the conclusion of mine owne and not a fresh allegation as you absurdly mistake of the Apostles words Christ then descended into the lower parts of the earth and thence lead captiuitie captiue that he might fill all places with his presence Where if your eies were not more then dimme you might soone see I quoted no text as I did before but declared by mine owne wordes inserted what I gathered out of the
apostles speech as the wordes interposed in an other letter and with two lines inclosed but that the Printer did sometimes forget my markes and directions doe plainly witnesse And to what purpose I pray you Sir in common reason were it for me to repeat a place faire and full as I doe and within two lines after to cite the same againe with sixe wordes added which were not in the former except it were an exposition and no citation of the Apostles words Wherefore your wisedome might presently haue perceaued that the halfe circle which standeth after places did in my coppie stand after presence and that the Printer by haste or neglect brought it neerer then hee should And those very wordes places with his presence you finde twice in the same section in an ordinarie letter and cite them your selfe as an exposition and not an addition to the Apostles words But my speech you say is both inconuenient and farre from the Apostles meaning Of that you are no fitte iudge you must reade more and more indifferently then you doe before you will come neere the Apostles meaning Your exposition that Christ first descended into the lower parts of the earth and then ascended farre aboue all heauens onely to fill all his Church with the gifts of his spirit which by his ascending hee promised to doe is farre from the Apostles wordes and meaning For in these wordes to fill all the apostle compriseth as well the benefits of Christs descending as of his ascend ing And euen by his ascending we are assured of other and greater gifts then those which are powred on his church heere on earth for the support of his Saints in this life Christes comming to iudgement his raising our bodies from corruption and conforming them to be like his glorious body and bringing vs into the kingdome of his Father where perfect eternall and celestiall ioy blisse and glory shall be reuealed on vs these be waightier and excellenter gifts then the graces of this life and yet by Christes ascending into heauen we haue a manifest interest in all these So that though it be true that Christ departing from vs prouided sufficiently for vs whilcs heere we liue by the gifts and graces of his spirit yet the kingdome of Christ which cxtendeth to things places and persons celestiall terrestriall and infernall is farre larger then that part which you mention which commeth nothing neere to the fulnesse of the Apostles wordes or sense Since then by descending to the lowest and ascending to the highest the apostle noteth all the places in the world the earth not excepted from which Christ both descended and ascended after he had finished the worke of our redemption and by his presence in euerie place was acknowledged his power and dominion ouer all things in euery of these places hell it selfe being not able to make any resistance to his person or pleasure the sensc which I giuc to the apostlcs words that Christ descended ascended to fill all places with the maiestie of his presence and might of his word better declareth the greatnesse and largenesse of Christes kingdome now sitting in heauen then doth the guiding of his church in the miseries and infirmities of this life though I do not denie but that is a woorthy part of his excellent and supereminent power And for that application of the apostles wordes which perhaps you finde not in your Note bookc and so suspcct it to be the more inconuenient Athanasius a man of more iudgement then I or you or any that you follow for ought that I know first led me to it Christ performed the condemnation of siââ¦ne on the earth the abolition of the curse on the crosse the redemption of corruption in the graue and the dissolution of death in hell Omnia loca permeans going to euerie place that he might euery where worke mans saluation And againc As then Christ our Sauiour ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã filled all places on all sides with his presence so he filled all with the knowledge of himselfe Man compassed on euerie side and euery where that is in heauen in hell in man in earth may behold the Diuinitie of the Sonne of God vnfolded by his Manhood Third you make much of that which doth you not a pinnes worth of good where it is asked who shall descend into the deepe that is to bring Christ againe from the dead If the deepe here did signifie Hell which yet certainely it doth not but suppose it doth how will that follow which you presume that Christ dying descended into the deepe The text saith no such thing You be a deinty diuine that thinke the Apostle here wandreth in his question eââ¦eth in his answere abruptly impertinently clapping things vncoherent together If the Apostle did not referre the former questions to Christ how then in his answere doth head this is to bring Christ down from heauen to bring Christ backe from the dead Will your wisedome then learne that the question must fit the answere the one be pinned at least to the other But Christ you say is not named in either of those questions who shal or can ascend to heauen who shal or can descend to the deepe What thcn are there not besides the answers which name Christ so ââ¦ie the former question to the person of Christ two manifest reasonsto restrain these questionsvnto Christ First that the coââ¦snes of faith there mentioned by the Apostle which dependeth only wholy on Christ may moue no such questions nor doubt no such things For he that doubteth whether Christ dying descended to the deepe or rising ascended to heauen vtterly frustrateth the faith that is in Christ. The perswasion then of faith which must be farre from moouing any such questions of Christ prooueth those questions to pertaine to Christ. Secondly the questions themselues exactly comprise the person of Christ and consequently though he be not there named yet is he there ââ¦nely intended as appeareth by the answere For these interrogatiues who can ascend to heauen or who can descend to the deepe are equiualent to these generall Negatiues none can ascend to heauen and none can descend to the deepe as is plaine by the perpetuall vse of the Scripture What hast thou which thou hast not receaued who is like to thee O Lord his generation who shall declare which of you reproueth me of sinne Who shall accuse the elect of God Who shall separate vs from the loue of Christ And a thousand like examples doe exquisitely proue these interrogatiues to be resolute and absolute Negatiues And so Iob expoundeth them Who can make cleane of vncleane not one If NONE can ascend to heauen or descend to the deepe then NOT CHRIST and so much the Apostle expresseth when he saith that Christ is excluded from descending and ascending by those questions and in that respect all that will be faithful must forbeare them
of the dead opposed to the lyuing and yet bin restored to life againe And consequently in spite of your heart Abyssus the bottomles deepe must not onely keepe his signification perpetuall in the new Testament which is the place appointed for the diuels but descending thither with returne must import an impossible condition to all men ââ¦aue onely to Christ which in the generall condition and state of the dead is nothing so Besides that the condemned to hell are truely dead and so called in the Scriptures is vnknowne to none of any learning saue to you Death and hell saith Saint Iohn deliuered vp their dead And if the second death bâ⦠the truest and terriblest death that is wherein both soule and body are for euer dead then hell is most properly the place of the dead since all there are adiudged to euerlasting death where in the condition of death opposed to the liuing heere on earth the soules of the Saints doe liue with God and taste neither torment nor death Touching the word Abyssus the bottomlesse pit with which you play at your pleasure this may sufââ¦ce that throughout the Scriptures the word is neuer vsed for the graue For the depth of the sea and bottom of earth it is vsed in the old Testament and metaphorically for the deepe counsels of God and desperate troubles of men but in the new Testament it is onely vsed for the bottomlesse pitte whither Diuels are afraid to goe as appeareth by their petition to Christ not to be commanded to depart ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã into the bottomlesse deep and where they are lockt and kept when pleaseth God This meaning the Syriacke translator an auncient writer of no small credit seemeth to haue sith he turneth it abyssum sepulchri the deepe of the graue The Syriacke translation I reuerence for antiquity but you bring the Latin traÌslator of the Syriacke that is partiall by your leaue rendreth the Syriacke word according to his owne supposition For though the man were very learned that made the Latin translation yet in this and some other things he yeelded ouer much to the priuate affections of some men with whom he liued conuersed The words in Syriacke are who shall descend latââ¦ehuma dashiul to the deep of sheiul Where sheiul in Syriacke hath the same deriuation and signification that Sheôl hath in Hebrew and therefore standeth as indifferent to the Sheââ¦l of soules which is hell as of bodies which is the graue Againe Tehuma in Syriacke being all one whith tehoma in Chalday and thence taken as they both are froÌ tehom in Hebrew and throughout the Scriptures tehom the deepe being neuer applied to the graue but to the great and vnsearchable deepes of the sea of the earth and of hell it hath neither sense nor truth that Tehuma in this place should be applied to the six foot depth of a graue Lastly Tehuma without addition is vsed by the Sayriack Translator for the deepe of hell to which the Diuels desired not to be sent And sheiul alone is also put by him to signifie the place of torment where the rich Gluttons soule was punished after death The Arabicke Translator keepeth the same sense which the Syriack doth saying who is he that descended ILEY AFFAâ⦠LGIAHIM to the lower places of hell GIAHIM being vsed by the same Translator in S. Lukes Gospell to expresse the place where the Rich mans soule after death was tormented So that the Syriacke Arabicke Translators fully refute your conceit of the graue besides the sound and sufficient reason alleadged formerly by me to which Translators must confirme their words that the Apostles speach heere cannot be construed of the graue without a manifest and inexcusable falsehood For where then the sense of these words must be None euer descended to the graue that returned saue Christ this is so false that children will not endure it to be thought Apostolike therefore will you nill you the bottomlesse deepe here in this place of the apostle must signifie that deepe to which neuer man descended and returned but only Christ. Which if it be not hell we desire to know of you and your friends what place you can plot vs out to fitte these words The Apostle may also insinuate in this word a seeking to the deepest and fardest parts of the sea to learne somewhere if it might be among all the creatures how to fulfill keepe the law For so Moses whom here he doth cite expressely signifieth then so the Apostle also signifieth the very same You thought the Sextens would deride you if you should rest on this resolution that euery day they digge bottomlesse pits to burie men in when they themselues so easily get out of them and therefore you now put forth to sea and goe a diuing to see whether you can catch cockles in the deepe or no to learne of them how the law of God may be fulfilled A pattern of your profound learning if a man would seeke he shall need goe no farder then this Page and the next where he shall find how ignorantly absurdly and vntruely you roue at the matter and meaning of Moses and Paul and misse them both as wide as the sea is broad For Moses speaketh no word of the depth of the sea much lesse of seeking to all creatures how the law of God might be fulfilled Neither doth the Apostle exactly cite the wordes of Moses as you imagine but somewhat altereth them that he may fitte them to Christ with greater effect and comfort then Moses could vnto the law Moses speach is faire and plaine The Iewes to whom he deliuered the law written could not pretend the knowledge of Gods will to be hidde in heauen nor farre remooued from them beyond the seas that they should wish some would goe vp to heauen to bring it them or ouer the sea to fetch it but the word saith Moses to the people is very neere vnto thee in thy mouth and in thine heart for to doe it That is written before thine eies that thou mightest read it and pronounced in thine eares that thou maiest remember it if thou wilt take heed to obserue it I take heauen and earth to record I haue set before thee life and death blessing and cursing Moses doth not say the performing of the law was not in heauen nor beyond the sea but the knowledg of the law Otherwise you make Moses teach that the fulfilling of the law was in their mouthes hearts which is an open error and repugnant to the trueth of the Gospell For if righteousnesse might be by the law then Christ died without cause As you come nothing neere to Moses meaning so you swarue farder from Pauls The right way to decline death threatned to the breakers of the law and to obteine life promised to the obseruers thereof is not to looke to the law which we cannot obserue but to Christ who
is grounded on Austin it is his collection not the text without him that serues your turne you and your friends will neuer be able to ouermatch Saint Austins obseruation that he neuer found in any place of Scripture Inferi which is the word that is vsed in Latin for sheol to be taken in any good sense and much lesse to make good proofe by the word of God that the condition or place in which the soules of the Saints are after death is called sheol or hades since as I haue sufficiently shewed Sheol is opposite to heauen and to euery part thereof as the lowest and woorst place of abode to the highest and best which things if you canne glew together you shall quit your selfe to bee your craftes master But first you must note that we goe not about to prooue sheol or hades to be heauen We neuer thought it the more is your iniurie when you haue nothing to reproouâ⦠yet with bitter reproches to disgrace me as you doe and that euen for this your owne meere conceit What time of the day is it I pray you Sir that you awake so lately out of your deepe and drowsie maze or sleepe choose which you will that you now begin in sadnesse to disclaime that you euer said or ment Sheol was or could be heauen or any part thereof Is it so many moneths agone that positiuely and publikely you affirmed Sheol and Hades in the Scriptures to BE THE PLACE where the iust mens soules are after death Were the sections of your booke framed so farre a sunder and so verie strangers ech to other that you forget it was a resolute position of yours or of some of your friends for you euen in the verie last section and but in the other side of the leafe that THE CONDITION OR PLACE WHERE IVST MENS SOVLES ARE AFTER DEATH was SHEOL and HADES and that which argueth your notable stupidity or folly reiecting so violently the inuention of Limbus which supposed the soules of the righteous deceased before Christ to be in Sheol and Hades as well as the soules of the damned you now come to tell vs that Sheòl and Hades is the place as wel where the iust mens soules are after death as that where the damned are You talke of wittie reasons to solace your selfe withall if you could tell how in trueth this stuffe better deserueth to be tawed with tearmes then to be refuted with reason since it hath neither ground nor proofe nor so much as concordance with it selfe Consider a word of like vse in Latin Defuncti signifying the dead may be applied generally to the soules deceased Yet I hope notwithstanding Limbus may be easily auoided Are defuncti none other but the damned onely in hell the word is properly generall signifying them that are gone hence certainly so doth hades and sheol All these the Latin the Greâ⦠and the Hebrew words are indifferent and common in themselues signifying indeed no positiue thing properly but a meere priuation of this life You shall doe well to consider that you know not what you say but as a man out of trueth and tune you fall from one absurdity to another and trole out positions that are meere priuations of all sense and vnderstanding that such words as onely note the priuation of this life or leauing this world are common to all deceased and departed hence this Children know We striue not for that and so defuncti importing such as haue ended the course of this life and are gone from hence may serue as well for those that are with Christ in rest and blisse as for the rest that are in the paines and torments of hell but what is this to Sheol or hades or to the place where the one or the other are Is the PLACE where soules departing hence are receaued no POSITIVE THING with you but a MEERE PRIVATION who euer said so that was not meerely depriued of his witts the places where soules after this life are disposed are Paradise or as you say heauen and hell Are heauen and hell and the states of soules there no positiue things but meere priuations of this life if this be the best way you haue to aââ¦oid Limbus in faith my reason will soone conuince you to want more then witte You speake not of places you will say but of conditions If you did so your error were groââ¦e enough but by your leaue looke on your owne words you speake of the PLACE WHERE IVST MENS SOVLES ARE AFTER DEATH as well as of the condition and would you now shift your hands of both and say you ment a meere priuation of this life you would faine conuey your selfe to your old castel of comfort which are empty words and phrases best fitting your wrangling humour but we must pray you to conuince the Creed and expound the Scriptures with more then meere priuations and idle obseruations or els to let them stand in their former trueth and strength Who knoweth not that such as haue ended this life may be called defuncti or mortui the deceased or dead in that their bodies lie now in corruption though their soules be in peace and rest with God but what is that to the place or state in which they are after death which the Scripture maketh to be positiue though such a phrase-founder as you are would haue it nothing els but priuatiue Of Enoch and Elias who were translated hence with their bodies liuing it cannot be said they are dead because no part of them was or is subiected to death and yet are they gone from hence to a more blessed and happie life But Sheol in the Scriptures as we haue seââ¦e by the common and constant consent of Iewish and Christian Grammarians and expositors is a place vnder earth opposed to heauen as the lowest to the highest aââ¦d the word of God doth exactly confirme that assertion of theirs Moses Iob Daniâ⦠and Esay teach that Sheol is q below Now aboue and beneath are positions of places and not differences of priuations And so likewise Ioâ⦠Dauid Esaie and Aâ⦠vse Sheol or the place moâ⦠opposite to heauen Now if heauen be a poâ⦠place and state so is Sheol though either of them import a priuation of this earthly life Gods ordinance being such that this life shall end or change ââ¦efore men goe to heauen or hell It is then a weake and waterish collection that because both the graue and hell which in the Scriptures are comprised in the name of Sheol haue in them the priuation of this life therefore Sheol properly noteth a meââ¦re priuation of this life and nothing els vnlesse you nourish this secret error in your bosome that the soules deceased sleepe and so haue neither positiue nor sensible ioy or paine but a meere want of this world In effect they are all one with Thanatos death but that Thanatos belongeth properly to
bodies Hades and sheol sometimes to bodies somtimes to soules of men indifferently You may as well assume vnto your selfe to make new Lexicons as new Creeds Life and death being opposites the force of death is properly the priuation of lââ¦e Howbeit the continuance and necessary consequents of death are vsually comprised in this name that sheol and hades are likewise nothing properly but the mââ¦e pââ¦tion of this life this is your new made signification of these wordes warranted by your selfe against the maine resolution of all sorts of writers Hebrew Grââ¦ke and Latine and euen against the Scriptures themselues For if sheol be nothing but a meere priuation of this life how doth the Scripture auouch of Core Dathan and their companie that the earth opening her mouth They descended aliue to Shââ¦l How doth S. Iohn make Hades consequent after Thanatos and say Hades followed after him after a meere priuation of this life can you deuise a second priuation thââ¦of to follow the first you take it to be for your credite to crosse the whole world with wordes but you may doe well to spare the holy Ghost for feare of aââ¦rclaps And whence commeth this new skill that Thanatos belongeth properly to bodies hath not the soule of man a life of grace and blisse which is the life of God or will you call that improperly life Then the Angels haue properly no life and God himselfe who is all life and that most properly shall by your learning improperly liue If the soule haue truly and properly her life then the priuation thereof as in all the wicked is truely and properly death I meane not want of sense which she can not lacke but loâ⦠of grace by which she liueth And were your false position true that onely the body did liue and onââ¦ly might die and there were no death of the soule the state of a dead bodie doth it containe nothing positiue what is corruption and dust to which the bodie must returne are they meerely priuatiue And as for the soules of the righteous which you say are in Hades Shââ¦ol and death forget you what our Sauiour teacheth God is ââ¦ot the God of the dead but of the liuing that is they are not properly dead that liue with God In the 49. Psalme where all expresse circumstances doe shew that the Prophet speaketh of this death not of hell yet Dauid heere saith Notwithstanding God shall deliuer my soule from the power of sheôl that is death or the state of death when he shall receaue me most mightily So Tremelius turneth it noting heere Dauids hope of the resurrection which I thinke he hath well vnderstood in this place You promised to shew euen by the Scriptures that Sheol and Hades are more then once vsed for the generall condition of death wherein euen iust mens soules are held or the mansion of soules departed as well good as bad and now you turne vs ouer to Tremelius translation as if euery word that Tremelius said were Scripture whosoeuer saith nay But first you falsifie Tremelius translation for he doth not turne Sheol there by death or the state of death as you set it downe but he translateth Sheol in the 15. verse by Infernus hell and in the 16. which you cite by sepulchrum the graue And by his generall obseruation ouerthroweth your idle speculation of Sheol to be meerely and properly priuatiue His wordes are Vox Hebraica Sheol stationem quamlibet mortuorum in vniuersum notat ideoque modo ad sepulchrum modo ad Infernum Synecdochicè modo ad vtramque simul accommodanda est The Hebrew word Sheol noteth in generall euerie station not state of the dead that is of so much as is dead in men and therefore it must be applied sometimes to the graue somtimes to hell by Synecdoche as to parts thereof and sometimes to both ioyntly Then Sheôl properly hath nothing to doe with the generall state of the dead common to good and badde but Sheol is euery station or place vnder earth as the graue and hell where any part of man subiected to death is receaued If this be Tremelius meaning as his words import none other then he agreeth with the rest of the Iewes and Christian Hebraicians who auouch the same otherwise he is deceaued as Mercere plainly prooueth against him and you and all that be so minded Errant qui Sheôl propriè locum animarum tam bonorum quam malorum esse putant cum Sheol propriè sit LOCVS SVBTERRANEVS generaliter generalââ¦us quam Sepulchrum THEY ERRE that thinke Sheol properly to be the place of soules as well good as badde since Sheol properly is any place vnder the earth in generall and more generall then the graue This he confirmeth by the witnesse of Aben Ezra vpon the 37. of Genesis that the proper and right signification of Sheôl is to signifie all places vnder earth and not the pit or graue alone Whereupon it is euery where opposed to heauen which is the highest of all Tremelius therefore maketh nothing for your conceit of Sheôl and if he did you are both deceaued as I haue formerly shewed by the testimonies of many Rabbins and learned Christians whose iudgements ouerswaie Tremelius since neither he nor you haue any iust proofe against them but your owne wresting the Scripture to your priuate purposes Howbeit I see no such thing in Tremelius as you pretend and therefore doe not charge him with any such fault For your owne collection if you ioyne it with Tremelius translation you hatch as grosse an error touching the soules of iust men after this life as hath beene heard of amongst Christians For if the soules of the godly shall not be deliuered from Sheol or as Tremelius translateth it from the graue till the resurrection and as you obserue the soule must here be taken properly that is for the immortall spirit which is in man and is therefore in Sheol because it shall not be deliuered thence till the resurrection then are the spirits of al iust men deceased as yet in their graues vnder earth and there shall remaine till their bodies rise which is fit doctrine for such a diuine as you are You might as well conclude out of Tremelius wordes that all the iust are damned in hell till the resurrection For hee thus expoundeth Dauids meaning Christ is my deliuerer à corruptione sepulchri inferni damnaââ¦one from the corruption of the gââ¦e and damnation of hell And so by your logike in the meane time the soules of the iust are subiected to both To labour much to reconcile wrested expositions of this or that wââ¦ter I haue no leasure yet Tremelius may meane that the soules of the iust are not yet wholy freed from the power of the graue not that they are in the graue as you absurdly and falsely conceiue and conclude but that their bodies lie yet in the graue which is an impediment to
conceits with rounder words then to any learned or sober writer I would willingly giue That the graue then by which death is meant hath in it or bringeth with it a lacke or losse of all earthly things and that common to good and bad this as it is not denied so is it no special signification of Sheol as you out of your new found notes obserue but the generall consequent of Sheol or the graue in all men iust or wicked as also corruption returning to dust is from whence they were taken To the wicked that wedde their soules to these earthly vanities and neglect God his promises the Prophets often threaten Sheol that is the place and state where all these thinges shal want or perish to them but with the sheol of their bodies which is the graue is ioyned the sheol of their souls which is hell though they not regarding or not beleeuing the later are most often threatned with the former which they euery day saw before their eies so was likeââ¦st to moue them most To the godly the remembrance of Shââ¦ol was somtimes grieuous either because it was ioyned with an vntimely death to theÌselues or with the dishonour of Gods name or with the danger of his Church or signification of his dislike of their liues and courses which circumstances haue often troubled the Saints at the sight or foreshew of death These things you stampe and straine with your distempered and vnlearned fansies and then you produce a meere priuation which you call a destruction of the whole man in Sheol Now what if Iob called the graue an house appointed for euery man liuing or said the graue must be an habitation to him as well as to others doth he meane that the whole man bodie and soule shall dwell in the graue or ââ¦ome to corruption as is presently added I shal say to corruption thou art my Father to the worme Thou art my mother my sister Are you so good a Carpenter that with a meere priuation you can make an habitation and to furnish your house bring soules from heauen or the whole man to dwell with corruption and wormes A seely reason like the rest you interpose That seeing Iob speaketh of Shââ¦ol as his continuall habitation to the worldes end it can not be went onely of the graue for his bodie which endured but a very short time and had no being at all after it was turned to verie earth and wormes Much lesse may it be ment of his soule that turneth neither to earth nor wormes and least of all of his whole person since in the whole euery part is coÌtained if it be true of neither part how can it be verified of the whole but such is your folly that with your idle fansies you call the maine grounds of Christian faith in question and offer doubt how God can raise his Saints out of their graues when as their bodies being long before turned to earth and ashes haue no being at all Sir if you speake in earnest these be wicked quarrels and shew that you woulde faine shake heauen and earth to vphold your new found Sheol Otherwise all the godly know that God hath their ashes in sight before him and will not mistake one earth for another though their dust were scattered ouer all the world And so long as he that will raise them by his mightie power hath in so certaine number and measure the whole and euery the least dust that came of their bodies they lie in their graues till the time of resurrection and their maker will not misse an haire of their head nor a mote of their ashes which if it be strange to you dispute against him that created heauen and earth of nothing and not against me that beleeue the resurrection of mens bodies and flesh many thousand yeeres after they be turned to dust and as you wickedly surmise haue no being at all after they are turned to earth and wormes In greatest reason this is that which Iacob meaneth when he saith he will goe downe mourning to his Sonne in Sheol His body he thought was deuoured and digested in the belââ¦es of wilde beasts Therefore he will goe to the soule of his sonne in sheól to enioy the society of his deere Soââ¦e It is no maruell you be so stiffe-necked in rules of Discipline when you ââ¦e thus ââ¦ad-headed in points of doctrine I pray you Sir where did Iacob thinâ⦠that ââ¦osephs soule was after death or that his owne should be in hell in Abrahams bosoâ⦠or in some place lately deuised by your selfe to containe iust mens soules Or are soules by your Diuinitie without all place that the father might enioy the socieââ¦e of his deare sonnes soule and yet in no place you may doe well to declare vs these doubts for I assure you vnlesse you plead dottage these discourses will amount to plaine impietie In hell there is no great enioying one of an other I trow In heauen you meane it not for then you must confesse heauen to be Sheól which you say you neuer thought In the graue I hope soules doe not lodge then must you find vs a place whither Iacob would descend to enioy the society of his deere sonnes soule Will you call it a meere priuation and destruction which are the graffes that you haue newly planted you must first tell vs what ioy there is in priuation and destruction Next whether this priuation and destruction be any where and so in some place or no where and so a right creature of yours as being a priuation of all witte and trueth Thirdly if Iosephs soule were neither in ioy nor rest what comfort Iacob could take to finde his deere sonnes soule in such a plight And lastly whether the Patrââ¦arks had no promises of rest and receit with God after this life but that they were to seeke for the soules of their parents and children in your priuatiue Sheol which is neither hell heauen nor Abrahams bosome For if it be one of these then is it not onely positiue but also locall that is somewhere and hath a state and condition agreeable to the mercies of God and the desire of the Saints But why persue I your follies so farre as if they were not peeuish pangues of your vnsetled braines Iacobs words without your iests are plaine enough to ech good Christian in saying he would goe mourning to sheââ¦l that is to his graue assuring himselfe after death to haue his soule receaued into that place of rest into which he did not doubt but the soule of his innocent childe was formerly admitted by the goodnesse of his God And if any man like Rabbi Selomoes exposition that êl in this place may signifie ouer or for as it often doth then Iacobs wordes are more easie that he will descend to Sheol mourning for his sonne Howbeit Iacob knew well enough that Iosephs bodie though deuourââ¦d and digested in the
ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades below was stirred to meete thee So likewise he citeth and alloweth Platoes words When death draweth neere the tales that are told ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã of things in Hades how he that heere dealeth vniustly shall there be punished and were laughed at then trouble the soule least they prooue true Irââ¦us saith Heerein Christ legem mortuorum seruauit did as other doe that diâ⦠and conuersed three daies vbi erant mortui sancti where the dead Saints were And this he calleth locum inuisibilem the vnseene world What meaneth thiâ⦠but Hades as we take it yea a little before he expresly calleth it Paradise Neuerthelesse I grââ¦nt that he thought this vnseene world was indeed beneath in the earth Wherein his proofes doe vtterly faile him as you your selfe doe fully grant and professe in this point as well as we In time you may learne some skill to alter and counterfait the Fathers writings but as yet your cunning faileth you You doe not marke or will not see that Irenaeus in this Chapter expresly confuteth a number of your positions and subuerteth the whole frame of your meere priuatiue Sheol and not Irenaeus but your sense put to Irenaeus his words against his manifest meaning is all the hold you haue in thisplace Irenaeus condemneth two of your assertions as erroneous the one that Christes soule after death went vpward to heauen and descended not downeward to the lower parts of the earth The next that the soules of the Saints as soone as they die ascend to the highest heauens Haeretici simulatque mortui fuerââ¦t dicââ¦t se supergredicaelos Hereticks as soone as they be dead say they ascend aboue the heauens They will not vnderstand that if this were so as they say the Lord himselfe surely would not haue made his resurrection on the third day sed super crucem expirans confestim vtique abiââ¦sset sursum relinquens corpus terrae but giuing vp the ghost on the crosse would no doubt haue straightwaies gone vpward leauing his bodie to the earth But now he staied three daies where the dead were As he refelleth your imaginations so he nothing relieueth your assertions though you touch nothing of his which you turne not awrie with corrupting his sense or his sentence Christ kept the law of the dead saith Irenaeus that is say you he did but as others that die and conuersed three dââ¦es where the dead Saints were The lawe of the dead which Irenaeus heere speaketh of is to expect the resurrection of their bodies till the time prefixed by God His wordes are As then our Master non statiââ¦ââ¦lans abiâ⦠did not straight after death ascend vp but staied the time appointed for his resurrection by the Father so we ought to endure the time of our resurrection prefixed by God and so to be assumed as many as the Lord shall count woorthy You make a new law of your owne for the dead which Irenaeus neuer thought of and the iââ¦sible place appointed for their soules vntill the resurrection if you will haue it to be the same which Irenaeus saith Christ had must be the lower parts of the earth which I trust is not Paradise If therefore saith he the Lord obserued the law of the dead and staying vntill the third day in the lower parts of the earth then rose in his flesh and so ascended to his father how should they not be confounded who say their inward man leauing the body heere in supercelestem ascendere locum ascendeth to the highest place of heauen Touching the place where Christs soule seuered from his bodie was as the transcriber or printer before you mistooke the word sanctorum in Irenaeus for sanctus so you the second time corrupt the same in saying Christ conuersed three daies where the dead Saints were in steed of Vbi erant mortui where the dead were This place is twise before alleadged by Irenaeus where the word sanctus is referred to God and not to the dead Commemoratus est dominus sanctus Israel mortuorum suorum qui dormierant in terra sepultionis The Lord the holy one of Israêl remembred his dead which slept in the earth of their buriall and descended to them So in his 4 booke and 39 chapter he repeateth it againe Recommemoratus est dominus sanctus Israel mortuorum suorum qui prââ¦dormierunt in terra defossionis The Lord the holy one of Israel remembred his dead which before his comming had slept in the earth digged to lay them in that is in their Graues Iustine Martyr citeth the Greeke words to like effect The Lord God out of Israel remembred his dead that slept ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã in their graues This being the true tenor or translation of this sentence it is euident that the transcriber or printer of Ireneus mistooke Sanctorum for Sanctus and you more wilfully presume to put the word Sanctus to the former period of purpose to imply that Christ went no whither but where the souls of his Saints were But you vtterlie peruert Ireneus meaning for Christs going to them doth not exclude his goinge els whither and in those generall words Christ conuersed three dayes with the dead are comprised not only the graue and place of buriall where the Lords dead were but as appeareth by Ireneus proofes following the Heart and lower parts of the earth euen the nethermost Infernum hell where others were which were no Saints and the souls of the Saints were not except you mind to establish Limbus out of these words Now what hath your priuatiue Sheól and Hades to do with these words heere are places described in the earth and vnder the earth where if you set the soules of the Saints vntill the day of resurrection you empty Paradise and quite deny the Saints deceased to be in any part of heauen since heauen is aboue and not vnder the earth And though you say Ireneus proofes doe faile him for his purpose they are plaine and full as that Christ was in the heart of the earth and descended to the lower parts of the earth and that of Dauid applied by him to Christ Thou hast deliuered my soule from the nethermost hell There is therfore nothing in these words of Ireneus that fauoreth your new found hades though the souls of Christs disciples after death be granted to go to an muisible place prepared for them by God which whether it be Paradise or heauen or a place vnder earth for thither ââ¦aith Ireneus Christ descended but he doth not say that the souls of his Disciples shall thither goe till the resurrection as you falsly collect it cannot be your hades which is a meere priuation of this life and hath no positiue thing in it much lesââ¦e a certaine and defined place for the soules of his Saints And where you presume as your manner is that Ireneus a little before calleth this
Patriarkes and Prophets partakers of him selfe habes regionem inferûm subterrane am credere thou must beleeue the place or region of inferi to be vnder the earth If you draw these words to your world of the dead then are the soules of the iust neither in heauen nor in Paradise but vnder the earth euen in the heart or midst thereof and there shall remaine vntill the resurrection for so Tertullian resolueth of his inferi Which yet is farder most cleerely to be seene Lazarus apud inferos in sinu Abrahae refrigerium consecutus Lazarus in the world of the dead enioieth comfort in Abrahams bosome contrariewise the rich man is in the torments of fire both of them there receauing their diuers rewards How cleere is this that he maketh hades and inferos euen in Luke also to be nothing but the common state and world of the dead It is farre cleerer that you neuer read Tertullian with indifferent care to trie the trueth of his meaning and words but only to abuse the Reader with a seelie shew not of his writings but of your wrestings For there can be no directer speach to prooue that inferi are neither heauen nor Paradise but places vnder the earth and in the midst thereof where bad and good excepting onely Martyrs are kept in rest or paine till the generall day of iudgement then is found in these bookes of Tertullian from which you would gather your world of the dead For euen in the fiue and fiftie Chapter of his booke De Anima whence you first beganne to weaue your world of the dead he positiuely auoucheth Nulli patet caelum terra adhuc salua ne dixerim clausa Heauen is opened to no man so long as the earth is continued that I say not closed ouer them Together with the end of the world shall the kingdome of heauen be opened And touching Paradise he admitteth no soules to be there but onely Martyrs And therefore to this obiection But thou wilt say the dead are in Paradise whether the Patriarkes and Prophets that rose with our Lord passed euen then ab Inferis from the places below he answereth How then was the region of Paradise which is vnder the Altar reuealed to Iohn in the spirit to haue none other soules in it besides Martyrs how did Perpetua the most valiant Martyr the day before her suffering when Paradise was reuealed to her see there onely her fellow martyrs but because the glittering sââ¦ord that keepeth the gate of Paradise yeeldeth to none saue to such as die in Christ that is as Martyrs for Christ Tota Paradisi clauis tuus sanguis est The only key to open Paradise is thine owne bloud shed in Martyrdome So that in as plaine words as Tertullian vseth any Inferi are neither heauen nor Paradise but Regio subterranea a place or Region vnder earth and in the heart of the earth where some soules are in rest as he thinketh and some in torments which if you can turne to your generall and priuatiue Hades you shall worke wonders That other position of his constituimus omnem animam apud Inferos sequestrari in diem Domini we resolue that euery soule is kept in Inferi till the day of the Lord or of iudgement as it is priuate to himselfe and sauoring of Montanisme so it is different from the rest of the Fathers who confesse not onely Martyrs as he doth but all good Christians after this life to bee receiued into Paradise This error if you be disposed you may mainetaine with Tertullian but you shall neuer thence establish your world of soules which you seeke for Whereupon the learned Iunius noteth thus Inferos Latini Patres vt Graeci Haden pro omni loco aut statu mortuorum dixerunt promiscué The Latine Fathers vse Inferi as the Greeke doe Hades for euery place and state of the dead indifferently That Iunius was very learned I doe not denie but that learned men may be partiall and many times addicted to their priuate collections and opihions I would God we had not so much experience as wee haue If Iunius meane that Hades or Inferi were taken for euery place and state of the dead vnder the earth before Christes comming Iunius wordes are very true that many of the Fathers tooke Hades Inferi for the place of al the dead which they thought to be vnder the earth before Christs comming but that they called heauen or Paradise which are places for the Saints deceased in Christ by the name of Inferi or that they tooke Inferi for the state of the blessed soules since Christes resurrection this I say neither Iunius was nor any man liuing is able to prooue And for Tertullians meaning his wordes are so plaine that neither Iunius nor whosoeuer might or may ouerrule them I repeated them before the effect is this Inferi saith he are beleeued of vs to be a vastitie in the depth of the earth and an hidde profunditie in the bowels thereof for we reade that Christ was the three dayes of his death in the heart of the earth that is in the inward and middlemost receit thereof couered in the earth and hollowed or compassed on euery side with the earth and seated vpon the lower gulfes If these words be not plaine enough he addeth Habes Regionem Inferûm subterraneam credere thou must beleeue the Region of Inferi to be vnder the earth I shall not need many wordes to shew that Iunius obseruation out of Tertullian is not true except you adde euery place and state of the dead vnder the earth thereby to exclude the place and state of the blessed in heauen and in Paradise I leaue it to the Iudgement of any man that hath learning or vnderstanding whether these words of Tertullian do not define and describe a certaine place vnder the earth and within the earth in which he thought the soules of all men Patriarkes and Prophets not exempted were before Christes comming and should bee till the resurrection saue such as rose with Christ or suffered Martyrdome for Christ for that is his exception afterward as I haue shewed the good in rest the badde in punishment To that end he saith Omnes ergo animae penes inferos inquis Velis ac nolis supplicia iam ILLIC REFRIGERIA habes pauperem diuitem Cur enim non putes animam puniri foueri in Inferis interim sub expectatione vtriusque iudicij All soules then you suppose are in Inferi Will you ââ¦ill you you haue THERE alreadie both punishment and comfort the poore man and the rich For why should you not thinke the soule to bee punished and cherished in Inferis in the places below meane while vnder an expectation of either iudgement These wordes you can alleage and neglecting how plainly Tertullian hath taught besore that Inferi are places in the heart of the earth and a region vnder the earth you wilfully change condition
for regiââ¦on and state for place skipping cleane that all this is vnder earth and then you say this is your world of the dead whereof part are in heauen by your owne positions and part in hell But this is too sensible a subuerting of Tertullians words vnfit either for Iunius to beginne or for you to follow If Tertullians words were as true as they be plaine neither side might refuse his opinion Neither was Tertullian alone in this perswasion that all departing this life before Christes death went to places below in the earth Ireneus affirmeth almost as much Ea propter Dominum in ca quae sunt sub terra descendisse euangelizantem illis aduentum suum Therefore the Lord descended to the places vnder the earth to preach or publish euen to them his comming And againe Christ conuersed three dayes where the dead were yea where the soules of the dead were and was in the heart of the earth and stayed till the third day in the lower parts of the earth where I trust you will not defend Heauen or Paradise to be Ierom is more plaine in this point Salomon speaketh thus sayth he because before the comming of Christ omnia ad inferos pariter ducerentur all were caried alike to the places below Wherefore Iacob sayth He shall descend ad inferos to the lower places Et Iob pios impios in inferno queritur retentari And Iob complaineth that the godly and the wicked are detained in inferno in the gulfe below And lest you make what you list of the words Inferi Infernus as Iunius and some other learned men by their leaues haue done you shall heare what Ierom himselfe sayth of them both Inter mortem inferos hoc interest betweene death and inferi this is the difference Death is that whereby the soule is separated from the bodie Infernus locus in quo animae includuntur siue in refrigerio siue in poenis Infernus is the place in which the soules are shut vp either in refreshing or in punishment Now where this place was and how long the soules of the iust stayed there he doth not dissemble We learne by Esay sayth he that Infernus is vnder the earth And that Infernus is in the lower part of the earth the Psalmist witnesseth saying The earth opened and swallowed Dathan and couered the congregation of Abiram For as the heart is in the midst of the liuing creature so Infernus is sayd to be in the midst of the earth And vpon these words of Salomon There is neither thought knowledge nor wisdome in Infernus whither thou goest he sayth Nota vt Samuelem quoque verè in Inferno credas fuisse ante aduentum Christi quamuis sanctos omnes Inferm lege detentos Porro quod sancti post resurrectionem Domini nequaquam teneantur Inferno testatur Apostolus dicens melius est dissolui esse cum Christo. Qui autem cum Christo est vtique non tenetur in Inferno Note that thou mayest beleeue Samuel also was truely in Infernus and that before Christes comming all though saints were detained vnder the law of Infernus But that the saints after the Lords resurrection are no longer in Infernus the Apostle witnesseth saying It is better to be dissolued and to be with Christ. Now he that is with Christ certainly is not held in Infernus I would not repeat so much of this which I do not acknowledge to be vndoubtedly true were it not that you and some otheââ¦s take aduantage of these sayings which yet you reiect as vtterly false to establish hence your new world of soules and that after Christs resurrection directly repugnant to their assertions out of whose words you would seeme to deriue your opinion For you hold that to this hower the soules of the iust are in hades and infernus and so shal be till the resurrection since infernus and hades as you beare men in hand import no more with the Latin and Greek fathers but the condition and state of the dead in generall whether they be in hell or in heauen Well this may be your conceit but no father Greek or Latin euer made mention of any such thing as you would gather out of their words That all mens soules before Christs comming good and bad were in places vnder the earth the good in ease and comfort the rest in paines and torments this some of the fathers both Greek and Latin auouch but that the iust still remaine now after Christs resurrection either in hades or Infernus I find no man that auoucheth any such thing saue only Tertullian The first I must confesse I doe not beleeue neither did Saint Austen before me who learnedly and truely concluded that Abrahams bosome mentioned by our Sauiour in the Gospell could be no part nor member of Infernus or hell since the Scripture saith there is a great and mighty gulfe set betweene them so that the one can haue no accesse to the other and the iust were aboue in comfort whiles the wicked were below in hades a place of torment punished with flames of fire But since the resurrection of Christ no father I still except Tertullian affirmeth the soules of the iust to be in hades or infernus but in Paradise which Tertullian yeelded to none but to Martyrs being himselfe infected with the error of Montanus when he wrote his booke De anima as shall most plainly appeare though you neuer so stifly denie it Howbeit his opinion in that was priuate and different from the rest For Ierom saith Ante Christum Abraham apud Inferos post Christum latro in Paradiso Before Christ Abraham was in places below after Christ the Thiefe was in Paradise Now the thiefe was iustly punished for his offences and so no Martyr And againe The munition to which God exhââ¦rteth the Prisoners of hope we ought to vnderstand none other but the habitation of Paradise to which the Thiefe first entred with the Lord. For this is the Land of the liuing in which the good things of the Lord are prepared for meeke and holy men to which before the comming of our Lord and Sauiour in the flesh neither Abraham nor Isaac nor Iacob nor the Prophets nor other iust men could attaine But euen by Tertullian himselfe it is euident that your collection out of him is vtterly false For he excepteth martyrs out of Inferi and placeth them in Paradise who yet I trust are in the condition of the dead And so by no meanes doe inferi signifie with Tertullian the place or state of good and bad indifferently that are dead but onely such as were or are in places vnder the earth who are properly and truely called inferi in respect of vs and not those that are aboue vs in heauen or Paradise where on euery side we now confesse the Saints are though their bodies lie yet in the dust
vnder earth And because Chrysostome is quoted as one of the Patrons of these pretences I am content to let you see that Chrysostome is abused as well as the rest For howsoeuer Chrysostome be vehement and sometimes figuratiue in his speeches yet shall you not be able to prooue that he euer vseth Hades after Christes death and resurrection for the place of iust mens soules Before that time some of the Greeke Fathers supposing the soules of the iust to be kept vnder the earth you may perchance finde heere and there a sentence where the iust are said to be in Hades but you shall neuer be able to euince that after Christes resurrection Hades is either the common condition or place of soules departed good and bad as you and some others would seeme to obserue out of the Greeke Fathers I speake of no more then I haue read in Greeke but for so much as is extant of theirs and I could get I dare assure the Reader he shall finde my saying to be true As for the Homilie of Chrysostome which you cite it can doe you no great good The Greeke to my knowledge is not Printed and therefore you can conclude nothing for Hades since the Grecians haue and vse many words for Inferi besides Hades Cyril of Ierusalem expressing in Greeke that Article of the Creed descendit ad inferos saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Christ descended to the places below or vnder the earth to redeeme thence the iust But graunt the worde Hades be vsed in that place of Chrysostome what prooue you more then that Chrysostom was of opinion the soules of the iust before Christes comming were not in heauen or Paradise but in Hades vnder the earth neither shall we need for witnesse thereof to goe any farder then the same Homilie which you produce for your purpose His wordes euen there are these Simulque consider andum quod Abraham apud inferos erat Nondum enim Christus resurrexerat qui illum in Paradisum duceret Antequam Christus moreretur nemo in Paradisum conscenderat nisi Latro. And withall we must consider that Abraham was yet ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã apud inferos with those that were vnder the earth For Christ was not yet risen who should bring him into Paradise Before Christ died no man ascended to Paradise but the thiefe No man could enter into Paradise which Christ had shut The thiefe was the first that entred with Christ. The crosse of Christ is the key of Paradise the crosse of Christ opened Paradise Abraham is yet vnder the generall condition of death though his soule be in Paradise but Abraham is no longer in Hades where he was before Christs comming by Chrysostoms opinion Hades therefore is neither Paradise nor the generall state of the dead after Christes death and resurrection which cannot be strange to him that with any moderate paines peruseth Chrysostom Nec mors tollere nec infernus potuit hanc animam tenere qua iubente tremens etiam vinctas animas quas tenebat amisit Christo moriente dââ¦tione Tartarus perdidit quos tenebat abiecit infernus ius potestatis antiquae Neither could death take nor ââ¦nfermis or Hades hold Christs soule at whose coÌmandement hel or Hades trembling let go the soules which he held bound Christ dying hell lost out of his dition or custodie whom before it held Infernus or Hades threw of the right of his former power And after his eloquent manner speaking in the person of Christ hee saith amongst other things I should haue left vngratefull men to euerlasting punishment but mercie I confesse preuailed with mee I sent not an Angel but I my selfe came downe for thee I suffered my selfe to bee slaine sic ad istos Inseros veni and so came to these lower places Goe out now you that are bound rise vp yee that are wretched breath your selues yee prisoners Behold I shine on you as light vnwoonted behold I breake all your cordes and chaines Ecce Tarteareas sedes noctemque profundam faetidumque chaos extermino Beholde I abolish to you these infernall seats this darke mist and stincking chaos Here is Chrysostomes hades which I trust is not the generall state nor place of all mens soules vnder Christ specially since Chrysostom in plaine speech sayth Christ abolished and ended all these things to them that were in hell or hades If you stand on the Greeke word as not expressed in Chrysostoms Latine copies out of these Latine translations your Leaders by their leaues gathered their obseruations for these parts of Chrysostom are not yet printed in Greeke and therefore rightly may they berefuted by the same But though it be no small defect that we want as yet the most of Chrysostoms works in Greeke neuerthelesse by part you shall perceiue what he meaneth by the word Hades wheresoeuer it is occurrent in his writings In his homilie of the resurrection which I before cited lying in the New Colledge Librarie in Oxford he hath these words ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã The Lord came on his crosse and payed a death for man who was held of the diuell that he might free him from the bands of hades Where the bands of hades are those wherein man was deteined of the diuell And elsewhere speaking of the crosse of Christ ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã If the crosse of Christ brake vp the gates of hades and set wide open the arches of heauen and renewed the entrance into Paradise what maruell is it if it ouer came deadly poisons and cruell beasts And so againe God by Christ abolished the curse ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and brake in pieces the gates of hades and opened Paradise And shewing a generall consent of all nations in this vse of the word hee sayth The Grecians Barbarians Poets and Philosophers and all sorts of men consent with vs in this though not after the same maner ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and say that there are certaine iudgements or punishments in hades Which Theodoret likewise confesseth to betrue These speeches sayth he are sit for Philosophie ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã to send the soules that haue liued here well to heauen and those that haue followed the contrary downe to hades And of Plato he sayth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã In many places he affirmeth tortures in hades And least I should be thought to be lead with a desire to contradict without cause or vpon some conceit to oppose my selfe against such learned men as haue leaned that way supposing hades with the Greek Fathers to import the place and state of good bad after death I am not vnwilling good Christian Reader if it be not tedious or troublesome to thee to set downe part for the whole would make a new volume of that which in reading I haue obserued touching the vse of the word hades with auncient writers that were Christians who vse not
hades either for the place or state of the godly now deceased in Christ nor for the generall or common condition of both elect and reprobate since Christs resurrection but as we saw before in Iustine the martyr Chrysostome and Theodoret precisely for a place opposite to Paradise and heauen where the wicked after this life find the due wages of their sinnes which is eternall darââ¦knesse and death where the dwelling and dominion of Diuels is and whence the Saints dead and liuing from the beginning of the world to the end thereof weââ¦e and are redeemed and deliuered by Christ. Iosephus a Iew and yet a fauourââ¦r of Christian Religion as appeareth by his testimonie giuen of Christ and one that liued euen in the Apostles time as being a chiefe leader of the Iewes in the battaile against the Romans and taken by Veââ¦pasian to whom he foretold by the gift of pââ¦ophesie whiles Nero yet liued that he should be Emperour in his oration to dissuade them that would haue killed themselues and him before he should yeeld to the Romans Know you not saith he that such as goe out of this life by the law or course of nature and repââ¦y the debt which they rââ¦ceaued of God when he that gaue it is willing to receaue it haue immortall glory an house and ofspring setled and their soules cleansed and fauoured of God inhabit the holiest place of heauen and whose hands waxe mad against themselues ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã THEIR SOVLââ¦S HADES that is darke RECEIVETH Ignatius the third bishop of Antioch after the Apostles sayth of Christ ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã He descended alone to Hades Hell and threw downe the rampier that had stood from the beginning and brake vp the partition wall thereof which kept men from heauen To the state of the dead Christs soule did not descend alone the thiefs soule was with him neither had the rampier of bodily death continued vnbroken from the beginning since many before Christs suffering rose from the generall condition of the dead but hell it was to which he alone of all men that euer returned went and brake the strength and force thereof which till that time was vntouched Theophilus the sixt bishop of Antioch about 170 yeeres after Christ alleageth against Autolycus a maligner of Christian religion the verses of Sybilla to prooue that the Gentiles did sacrifice to diuels ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã You made sacrifices to diuels in hades Clemens Alexandrinus not long after labouring to proue that Peters words Christ preached to the spirits in prison pertained to the wicked not to the godly giueth this reason ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã who being well aduised will thinke the soules of the iust and of sinners to be in one condââ¦mnation Whence he concludeth that none heard Christs voice there but ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã such as were placed in hades and had yeelded themselues wââ¦ttingly to destruction And for proofe thereof alleageth these words as out of the Scripture ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades sayd to destruction We saw not his shape but we heard his voice I cite not these places to approoue euery allegation or opinion that is occurrent but to shew in what sense the auncient Greeke writers that were Christians vsed the worde Hades not for the common condition and state of soules iust and vniust which Clemens heere disaââ¦oweth but for the place where the wicked were detained that wilfully wrought their owne destruction Eusebius speaking in the person of Christ saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã I see my descent to Hades approch and the rebellion against me of the contrarie powers that are enemies to God He saith Eusebius went thither ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã for the saluation of the soules that were in Hades and descended to breake the brasen gates ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã to dismis those that before were prisoners of hades And out of Plato he alleageth this for a trueth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã that the soules of the wicked immediately after death departing hence endure the punishment in Hades of their doings heere Athanasius a man of no meane iudgement in whose confession or Creede allowed in the Booke of Common Prayer we finde it a part of the Christian faith that Christ descended to Hades declareth in infinite places what he meaneth by the word Hades After man had sinned saith he and was fallen by his fall death preuailed from Adam vntill Christ the earth was accursed ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades was opened Paradise was closed Heauen was offended but after all things were deliuââ¦red to Christ the whole was reformed and persited the earth in steede of a curse was blessed paradise was opened ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades shranke for feare the gates of heauen were left open He suffering for vs recouered vs and hungring refreshed vs ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã And descending to hades brought vs backe For if the Lord had not beene made man we had neuer risen from the dead as redeemed from our sinnes but had remained vnder the earth as dead neither had we euer beene lifted vp to heauen ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã but had lien in hades Againe he that examined mans disobedience and gaue iudgement inflicted a double punishment saying to that which was earthly Earth thou art and to earth shalt thou returne and to the soule Thou shalt die the death and so man was distracted into two parts and condemned to abide after death in two places If you can shew an other place whither man was condemned well may you say man was deuided into three parts and that being recouered out of two places he remaineth bound and chained in the third ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã but if you can shew none other place besidââ¦s the graue and hades hell out of which man was perfectly freed by Christ how say you then that God is not yet reconciled to man This appeareth not onely in vs but in the death of Christ the body comming to the graue ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and the soule descending to Hades being places that are seuered with a great distance the graue receauing his body for there it was present and hades his spirit or soule els how did Christ present the shape of his owne soule to the soules detained in bandes ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã that hee might breake in sunder the bandes of the soules detained in hades So likewise speaking of Christes persuing the diuell by his life and death hee else where saith The diuell was fallen from heauen hee was cast from the earth hee was persued in the aire euery where conquered and euery where straightned ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã he determined to keepe Hades hell for this place was yet left him But the Lord a true Sauiour would not leane his worke vnfinished ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã nor leaue those that were in hades as yeelded
to the enemie The diuell therefore ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã thinking to kill one lost all and hoping to carie one to Hades hell was himselfe cast out of hades hell ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades hell is abrogated death no more preuailing but all being raised to life neither can the diuell stand vp any more against vs but is fallen and indeed creepeth on his brest and bellie And therefore of the Saints he saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and in fine they saw Hades hell spoiled Epiphanius in sundrie places expresseth the parts and purpose of Christs descending to hell or hades He was crucified buried ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hee descended to the places vnder earth in his diuinitie and in his soule he tooke captiuitie captiue and rose againe the third day What here he calleth places vnder the earth whither Christes soule went after his death that elswhere he calleth Hades The Godhead of Christ would performe all things that perteined to the mysterie of his passion ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and would descend together with his soule to the infernall places to worke the saluation there of such as were before dead I meane the holy Patriarcks ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã c. that he might performe the things he would against hades in the forme of a man euen in hades that the chiefe Ruler HADES and death thinking to lay hands on a man and not knowing his Deitie vnited to his sacred soule Hades himselfe might rather be surprised and death dissolued and that fulfilled which was spoken Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Hades Basil Death is not altogether euill except you speake of the death of a sinner ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã because their departure hence is the beginning of their punishments in hades againe the euââ¦s that are in hades haue not God for their cause but our selues the head and root of sinne is in vs and in our willes And againe Dathan and Abiram were swallowed vp of earth the gulfes and clefts thereof opening vnder them Heere were not they the better for this kinde of punishment ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã for how should they be so that went to hades to hell but they made the rest the wiser by their example And writing on the 48 Psalme Because man turned himselfe from the word of God and became a beast the enemie caught him as a sheepe without a shepheard ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and put him in hades hell but when he sayth God will redeeme my soule from the power of hades he doth plainly prophesie ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã the descent of the Lord to hades who would redeeme the Prophets soule with others not to abide there Nazianzene in his second Oration against Iulian the Renââ¦gate ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Stop thou thy secrets and wayes that leade to hell hades I will declare the plaine wayes which leade to heauen And of Christ he sayth Christ died but he restored to life and with his death abolished death He was buried but he rose againe ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã He descended to hell hades but he brought backe soules and ascended to heauen Macarius When thou hearest that Christ deliuered soules ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã out of hell hades and darkeneââ¦se and that the Lord descended to hades and did an admirable worke thinke not these thinâ⦠to be farre from thine owne soule And thus he maketh Christ to speake to death and to the diuell ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã c. I command thee hades and darkenesse and death restore the soules inclosed And so the wickâ⦠powers trembling refund man that was inclosed Cyrill of Alexandria In olde times before Christ the soules of men departing from their bodies were sent to fill the receptacles of death ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã in dennes vnder the earth But after Christ commended his oââ¦ne soule to his Father he renewed the same way for vs ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã And now we goe not to bades from any place but we follow him rather in this and committing our soules to a faithfull Creatour we rest in excellent hope Yet of Christ he aââ¦firmeth The soule which was coupled and vnited to the word ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã descended into hades and vsing the power and force of the Godhead ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã shewed it selââ¦e to the spirits or soules there For we must not say that the Godhead of the onely begotten which is a nature vncapable of death and no waâ⦠conquerable by it ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã was brought backe from the dââ¦es vnder the earth Cyrill of Ierusalem like wise in his Catechismes vpon those words of the Psalme If ascend to heauen thou art there if I goe downe to hades tââ¦u art preââ¦ent sayth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã c. If tââ¦ere ââ¦e ââ¦ing higher than the heauens and hades be lower than the earth he that compreââ¦ââ¦eth the ââ¦owest doth also touch the earth And to those that were baptized he sayth When thou renouncest Satan thou hast vtterly abrogated the couenant had with him ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã c. euen the olde couenant ââ¦ith hades hell and the Paradise of God is opened to thee In the Homilies which Leo the Emperour made for the exercise of his stââ¦le and confession of his faith it is said ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Christ is risen bringing Hades prisoner with him and proclaiming lilibertie to the capitues He that held others bound is now in bonds himselfe ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Christ is come from hades with the ensigne of his triumph the sowre and heauie lookes of those that are vtterly ouerthrowen ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã as of Hades death and the hatefull diuels Damascene ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã c. The soule deisied descended to Hades that as to those on earth the Sonne of righteousnesse was risen ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã so to those that sate vnder the earth in darkenesse and in the shadow light might shine The brazen gates were torne the iron barres were broken ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and the keeper of Hades hell did shake for feare and the foundations of the world were laid open Cydonius ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã That there is in hades hell vengeance for all sinnes heere committed not onely the consent of all wise men but also the equalitie of the Diuine iustice confirmeth and strengthmeth this opinion Aeneas Gazeus He that in a priuate life committeth small sinnes and lamenteth them escapeth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã the punishments that are in Hades hell Gregentius Christ tooke a rodde out of the earth which was his pretious crosse stretching his right hand strake all his enemies conquered them ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã that is Hades death sin and that wilââ¦e serpent Theophylact. The rich man dying is not caried by the angels ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã but
other but a bodily death then Christ descended onely to the graue but if the desert of our sinne tied vs as guiltie to the torments of hell then Christ by Ruffinus confession so farre descended how farre we were by Gods iustice deiected that is to the place of condemnation for sinne And therefore Ruffinus doth not onely knit these speaches together in the person of Christ as expounding one the other Eduxisti de Inferno animam meam de abysso terrae ââ¦erum adduxisti me thou hast brought my soule from Infernus and hast brought me backe againe from the deepe of the earth But of the diuell he saith Qui mortis habebat imperium disruptis Inferni claustris velut de profundo tractus traditur he that had Rule of death was drawen as it were out of the deepe the cloysters of Infernus being broken open The place where the diuell was and whence he was drawen when he was spoyled and triumphed by Christ was not the separation of the Soule from the Body which the diuel hath not but it was the deepe of hell which here is called Infernus So that it is certaine by all the Fathers generally First that Hades and Sheol are taken for the state of death common to the Soules of good and bad Secondly Christ went not into hell the place of the damned as you hold but to the habitation of the blessed deceased If I haue not conuinced both these collections to be false by the manifest Testimonies of the Fathers for out of them you gather these obseruations then I desire no mans consent to any thing that I haue sayd but if you grosly mistake and misuse all the Fathers names and speeches then I trust the Reader will better consider what credit is to be giuen to your certainties and giue me leaue to be shorter in slipping ouer your idle presumptuous vaine crafts and false collections which are almost all that is behinde A taste whereof if he will take let him heare these bragges of yours following Thus your vaine boasting of all the Fathers is but a bubble So that if you consent as you say to be tried by all the Fathers Greeke and Latine they quite ouerthrow you notwithstanding your great words If your vaine and shamelesse boasting were not by this time well knowen I would giue some fresh assault to these bulwarks of falsitie and insolenâ⦠but the proofs being euident and precedent which I leaue to the Readers indifferent iudgement I will ouerskip this and a great deale more of the same kind as the bubbles or your vanitie and if ought be said to any purpose I will refute that otherwââ¦e I will bestow no more paper and incke on your wandring and wilde conceits Only Austen doubtingly and waueringly differeth from all the rest for thus he saith I confesse I haue not yet found that Inferi are named where the iust mens soules are at peace You might haue done well to haue learned of Austen this sober and modest course not by vaunting and outfacing but by plaine and faire confessing to shew the ground of your opinion as Austen doth of his Wherein he differeth not from all the rest as you confidently yet most iniuriously report of him but in this hee exactly and resolutely consenteth with them all Tertullians errour still excepted that after Christs resurrection Deinceps boni fideles prorsus Inferos nesciunt Good Christians dying come not to Inferi at all And as for the former opinion that the godly deceased before Christes death went ad Inferos to places below in the earth though not to torments which is the stone that still you stumble at and make it the very heart of all your defence deceitfully applying that to the time since Christes resurrection which the Fathers euer intended and expressed to pertaine to the time before Christes comming S. Austen though he yeeld so farre to former writers as to say If it may seeme tâ⦠be beleeued without absurditie yet he euery where professeth he could finde no such vse of the word Inferi in any place of the sacred Scriptures and that Abrahams bosome where the Saints did rest before Christs death was a part or skirt of hell he vtterly refuseth that as no way consonant to the wordes of Christ in the Gospell And therefore when he proposeth the other opinion with a condition if it may be beleeued without absurditie euen there he retaineth his owne resolution that Abrahams bosome was in locis à tormentis impiorum remotissimis in places most remote from the torments of the wicked and to beleeue otherwise were an absurditie as he concludeth in his 99. Epistle Against Austin you obiect First that surely the auncients named the places for all deceased good and badde Inferos as they named the world where both wicked and good doe liue Superos Secondly that Austen if hee had well marked it might haue found euen this which he saith he found not in the Latin translation of the Scripture What man is there that shall deliuer his soule from the hand of inferi that is death Where the soule being takeâ⦠properly for the soule then Inferi is found applied to iust mens soules deceased as well as to the wicked which Augustine might haue obserued Were you masking this might make mirth but being in earnest it is more then idle What if Arnobius in respect of hell being in the earth beneath vs call vs that liue on earth superos those aboue is that a proofe that the godly deceased are called inferi who knoweth not that infra supra are differences of place which in diuers respects may be diuersly varied To those that are in heauen we are Inferi that is beneath them and in that reference to heauen which is aboue vs Augustine himselfe doubteth not to call the earth Infernum Ad hoc infernum missus est filius Dei nascendo ad illud inferius moriendo To this earth below was the Sonne of God sent when he was borne to that other place beneath vs when he died But if no speciall comparison of place bee expressed then Superi Inferi the Saints aboue and the spirits beneath are generally so called in regard of vs who dwell on earth and speake on earth are by position of place in the middest that is lower then the highest and higher then the lowest And because vnder vs there are none liuing but those in hell therefore Inferi whom the Apostle calleth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã are spirits vnder the earth whether men or diuels As for that other obiection out of the Psalmes it is not onely a bubble soone blowen away but a bable not worth the bringing The translation of Tremelius and Iunius to whom you most appeale for these matters hath eripiat seipsum à sepulchro shall he saue himselfe from the graue that is can hee keepe himselfe that he shall not die and where you
take hold on the word soule as if that must be either in the graue which is absurd or in the hand of Inferi which is that you would haue your hastie head doth not perceiue that take the word SOVLE which way you will either for the life of man which is an vsuall speech in the Scriptures or for the soule properly neither of them doth steede you a rush For no man can preserue his life from the graue that he shall not die neither can any man withstand the hand or power of death that it shall not seuer the soule from the bodie since that is the ordinance of God against all men Saint Austen giueth you a third sense taking the soule there for the soule separate from the bodie which is more then euer you would be able to prooue and yet that maketh nothing to your purpose The rest of the faithfull saith he shall rise from the dead and liue for euer and not see death and yet can they not deliuer their owne soules from the handes of hell He which deliuered his owne soule from the hands of hell he hath deliuered the soules of his faithfull they cannot deliuer themselues This S. Austen could obserue though he regarded none of your vaine supposals And where you say Austen himselfe elsewhere graunteth the iust in peace might bee in infernus after death You might haue obserued the difference betwixt a condition and a position which you doe not and therefore you wrong him the more in saying that he graunteth any such thing He saith Si non absurde credi videtur if it seeme to be beleeued without an absurditie not affirming it might be beleeued without an absur ditie but respecting it with a conditionall least he should shew himselfe ouer peremptorie in condemning others that were of that opinion Otherwise his owne assertion and conclusion are earnest enough Non vtique sinus ille Abrahae aliqua pars inferorum esse credenda est The bosome of Abraham is not to be beleeued to be any part of inferi In his ipsis tanti Magistri verbis satis vt opinor apparet non esse quandam partem quasi membrum inferorum tantae illius felicitatis sinum In these very wordes of so great a teacher as Christ it appeareth sufficiently as I thinke that the bosome of so great felicitie is not any part or member of hell In Christs descent to hell Saint Austen is more resolute Of that he pronounceth Satis constat it is cleare enough Yea he putteth more waight vnto it and saith For neither can the Prophesie be contradicted which sayd thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell nor Peters words by which he affirmeth Christ loosed the sorrowes of hell wherein it was not possible he should be held And so concludeth who then but an infidell will denie Christ was in hell And againe Euidentia testimonia insernum commemorant dolores Euident testimonies of the Scriptures mention both hell and the paines thereof These be no coniecturall inclinations they bee iudiciall assertions whatsoeuer you say to the contrarie Fulgentius denieth not inferos to the godly deceased nor that Christ was locally only with them in inferis So that in saying he was where the wicked are tormented he meaneth that in respect of the common place which in the whole he calleth infernum Heere is a hole where through your wit is wholy runne and not your wit alone but your religion learning and conscience are runne after Plainer wordes then those of Fulgentius I neither doe nor can speake any Christus illuc vsque descendit quousque homo separatus à Deo peccati merito cecidisset id est ad infernum vbi solebat anima peccatoris torqueri Christ descended euen thither whither man seuered from God by desert of sinne was fallen that is to infernus where the soule of a sinner vseth to bee tormented What doth your wisedome answere to this He meaneth that in respect of the common place which in the whole hee calleth infââ¦rnum Is there any one place common to the Saints in heauen and to the damned in hell You haue learned belike of Parmenides the riddle-maker that all is one and because the world is but one that heauen and hell make one common place Whether fell man I pray you by the desert of sinne to heauen or to hell not to heauen I hope for then man sinning should approch to Gods Throne who Fulgentius saith was seuered from God to hell then he fell ergo Christ descended to hell by Fulgentius assertion and that place where the soules of sinners are wont to be tormenmented he calleth Infernum which if you can prooue to bee heauen you shall doe greater wonders then M. Hugh Broughton can doe For he maketh but a great ditch betwixt heauen and hell You fill vp that ditch of M. Broughtons digging and say both hell and heauen are one place common to Saints and Diuels For Infernus is the singular number and by the rules of Grammer if any rules will hold you must note but one place in which if both the blessed and the damned are then heauen and hell are both but one place Againe you farre passe M. Broughtons skill in that he saith they are much deceaued who thinke hell to be below in the earth though Saint Paul distribute all reasonable creatures subiected to Christs kingdome into things in heauen on earth and vnder the earth You change the whole site of the world and say heauen is below For where insernus is deriued from infra which is below if heauen bee called infernus then surely heauen is below and then must the Apostle recall his error in saying seeke the things which are aboue where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God he should haue sayd by your doctrine seeke the things which are below where the soules of the wicked are tormented for that is heauen with you But if at your next exercise you should pray for your Auditorie to come to infernus where the wicked are punished I winne they would thinke you more madde then M. Broughton is Howbe it with this one answere you giue the lie aswell to Prophets as Apostles For where Dauid saith to God Thou hast brought my soule out of infernus that cannot be by your rules since heauen and hell make but one place and the earth being in the midst of them must needes be one place with both extreames and haue the same name with both So that Dauids soule wheresoeuer it was was not out of Infernus Againe where he saith in the person of Christ Thou wilt not leaue my soule in infernus that is false by your doctrine who teach that Christ and all his Saints deceased are yet in a common place with the damned the whole being called Infernus And where before you were very angry That I said you made ascending to be descending and
their bodies in the dust of the earth And therefore that which followeth and is by you cited By this which we confesse that the Lord descended to infernus we must vnderstand that the Lord ioined himselfe in spirit to the spirits of the Saints deceased that I say is added as a consequent to Christs death and not as the proper signification of the phrase For it were more then absurd by your leaue that one and the same word which he saith signifieth the graue should properly note the burying of the body in earth below and the ascending of the spirit to heauen on high though in all the Saints the one is performed as well as the other And where Bucere seemeth to impugne the sense which the fathers gaue of this Article as his reasons be none so his words in no wise mans iudgement can ouersway theirs Peter martyr that Christ descended to inferos or hades signifieth nothing els but that he did vnder goe the same state as other soules doe that depart this life Why stoppe you there are you bleere eied that you cannot see what presently followeth or short winded that you can read no farder the very next words will plainly shew with what sincerity and fidelity you be conuersant in old and new writers Peter Martyrs words are these Eundem subijt statum quem reliquae animae à corpore seiunctae experiuntur quae aut in Sanctorum societatem coaptantur aut cum damnatorum spiritibus in aeternum exitium detruduntur Et vero vna atque altera tum piorum spirituum tum eorum qui damnati essent societas animae Christi praesentiam persensit The soule of Christ did vndergoe the same state by going to the same place which the rest of the soules seuered from the body doe trie that are either admitted into the fellowship of the saints or cast into euerlasting destruction with the spirits of the damned For both the one and the other society aswell of godly soules as of those that were damned perceaued the presence of Christs soule The soule then of Christ by Peter Martyrs iudgement cleane contrary to Bucers went aswell to the place of the damned as to the seats of the blessed and either society perceaued the presence of his soule seuered from his body Mollerus touching Sheol Hades and infernum ascribed to Christ saith they do signisie but that Christ died and to be no more then if he should say in the Psalme therefore I reioice because I know that although I die yet I shall rise to life againe Of Sheol Mollerus saith Saepe pro sepulchro dicââ¦tur it is often taken for the graue which no man denieth Of hades and infernus he speaketh not a word And albeit he be of opinion that Christs descent to hell sat is certò euinci non potest ex hoc loco cannot cleerely and fully be euinced out of this place of the Psalme by reason as he thinketh the words may be wrested to diuers senses yet touching Christs descent to hel he saith We vnderstand that Article of the Creed simply and without allegory and we beleeue that Christ truely descended to the lower parts of the earth as Paul speaketh Ephes. 4. and his victory he would shew to the Diuels after a speciall manner to strike perpetuall terrors into them and to free vs from the feare of their tyranny Bullinger speaking of Christ and indifferently of the godly sheweth that to goe to infernus is to goe to Abrahams bosome that is into heauen not into hell And that inferi and hades doe makâ⦠difference onely betweene the liuing and the dead and nothing els Bullinger bringeth foure senses of that Article of the Creed Christ descended to Inferna The first that is all one with he was buried which exposition he saith others mislike The second is Austens who in his Epistle to Dardanus writeth The Lord descended to Tartarus but felt there no torment The third to which he more inclineth Longe simplicius videbimur hunc articulum intelligere si senserimus virtutem mortis Christi dimanasse etiam ad defunctos his profuisse We shall seeme farre more simply to vnderstand this article if we thinke that the force of Christs death pearced euen to the dead and profited them The fourth is Vel certe per inferos inferna intelligimus non locum certè destinatum impijs sed defunctos fideles Or els by inferi inferna we vnderstand not the place of punishment appointed for the wicked but the faithfull deceased Here are all foure senses He liketh best that the vertue and force of Christs death descended and was shewed both to the blessed and to the damned as Saint Peter telleth vs that the Lord went in spirit and preached to the spirits that were inobedient and kept in prison Nimirum innotuit his iust a damnationis ex morte Christi sententia For euen to the damned appeared the sentence of their condemnation to be iust by the death of Christ. This he confesseth Christ did in spirit If by Christs spirit he ment Christs soule he expressely refuteh your conceits If he mean the force of Christs diuine spirit descended he hath Athanasius Cyril and others opposite against him Athanasius saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã How could the word or Sonne of God descend to Hades And againe ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã How could he descend with his Godhead open and vncouered ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Neither could hades endure the accesse of his Godhead vncouered And so Cyrill ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Neither in any wise may we say that the Godhead of the only begotten was brought from hades or the dennes vnder the earth for that was not worthy of woondering if the Sonne of God were not left in hades Exactly they teach that the Deitie of Christ or his diuine spirit could by no meanes be sayd to descend to hades or to returne from thence but it must be verified of his humane soule which reuealed it selfe and the vertue of his death as well to the damned as to the blessed Lauater saith Hades in Greââ¦ke is a generall word for the condition of the dead both in torments and in peace Lauater saith of hades as he doth of Sheól that Non solum locum Damnatorum sed Sââ¦pulchrum vel statum mortuorum passim in Scripturis signisicat it signisieth not onely the place of the damned but also the graue or state of the dead And so doth Hades with the septuagint who alwaies render Sheôl by that word Now the graue or state of the dead the one being an exposition of the other reacheth not to the Soules of the godly which are not in their graues but to their bodies and hath in it corruption silence obliuion and priuation of all things in this life from which the graue excludeth them be they neuer so blessed And so
verie rules of Grammar expressed in euery Lexicon require necessarily that ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã euerie where vsed by Greek writers in verse and in prose after ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã as ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and such like should be supplied with ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã or some such word importing a place or house before it can be excused from false Greek how then are you so ignorant or impudent choose which you will as to say that hades is the world of soules without limitation of place or state haue you forgotten what Eustathius saith of the very word it selfe ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades is a darke place vnder the earth And Phauorinus ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades is a Region without light Or what Lucian reporteth of all the people who were Grecians that persuaded by Homer Hesiode the rest of the Poets tooke Hades to be ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã a place vnder the earth deepe great and dark If the word then of it selfe import a place vnder the earth and that deepe and darke what trueth is there in your words or what force in your allegations which prooue nothing against any thing that I said nor for your new made world of soules without limitation of place or state The common Epithet of hades is hades pandocheus hades receauing all both good and bad And what then was hades therefore either not vnder the earth or not a place of darkenesse because all men good and bad after death by the Pagans opinion went to hades if hades withall your prophane writers saue once in a speciall conceit of Socrates were below in the earth and a dwelling in darknesse then doth the word it selfe beare in it a limitation of place below vnder the earth not aboue in heauen and a state in darkenesse not in light Against this speaketh not one of your authors whom heere you huddle most idlely not regarding what I admit or reiect That which I say they confesse with one consent as I haue elsewhere shewed if those testimonies were not sufficient you might haue ten times as many But to make short worke Clemens Alexandrinus shall let you see how peeuishly you impugne my assertion He alleageth out of Diphilus an auncient comicall Poet as followeth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã In hades we resolue there are two waies on for the iust the other for the wicked Howbeit the earth doth couer them both Your selfe is a witnesse against your selfe that to this place Hades come not the wicked onely but the noblest and best also Now where this place was in their opinion to which all come after death if you doubt Homer telleth you it was ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã In the house of hades vnder the dennes or darkenesse of the earth Theognis saith in like words ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã They goe to the house of hades vnder the dennes or closets of the earth Mimnermus saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã He goeth to hades vnder the earth Euripides ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Vnder the earth to hades there being Sophocles ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã They come to the closets of the God below Aristophanes ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã I will goe with speed to hades below So that your great Masters of the Greeke tongue if euer you saw them or read theÌ exactly resolue against you that your hades pandocheus whither all goe both good and bad is vnder the earth and so can no way be proportioned to heauen or paradise which are farre aboue the starres of heauen and are habitations of light and blisse where your hades of the blessed in the opinion of Pagans and Christians was a place of darkenesse though mixed with ease and comfort as they supposed And touching the Latin Inferi of which you seeme to make such account by pretence of Ciceroes words but without all cause I replie with the words of Lactantius whom the Christians called their Cicero Nihil terra inferius humilius nisi mors inferi Nothing is lower and baser then the earth but death and inferi And because Hen Iac is become of late so deuoute a Patrone of Ciceroes that he may not suffer his Paganish errors to be reprooued and is angrie that any man taketh his beedleship from him let him read but the next chapter of Lactantius against Cicero by name and he shall see what honour is to be yeelded to heathen Idolaters against the trueth Homer describeth Tartarus to be so much beneath hades as heauen is from the earth What if Hades or hell be exceeding deepe is that a proofe that the top thereof is no part of Hades because the bottome is farre beneath it Are not the parts of heauen infinitely one aboue another and yet all are heauen In my fathers house saith our Sauiour are many mansions and yet they all are but one house Though then the Poet faine that Hades hath in it deepe pits yet all is contained in the generall name of Hades specially since both Pagans and Christians confesse that men are punished in Hades and not vnder Hades Iustine the Martyr alleageth out of Philemon ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã There is iudgement in Hades Theodoretus saith of Plato ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Many times hee affirmeth places of punishment in Hades Cydonius saith generally ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã that there is vengeance in Hades for offences heere committed not onely the consent of all wise men but the equitie of Gods iustice approoueth this opinion The Gospell calleth Hades a place of torments Your selfe all this while haue maintained Hades to be a place as well of rest as of punishment that is of both at least And would you now with a Poeticall fiction or comparison strike out all that you and others haue said and appoint punishments not in but vnder Hades Poets haue their speciall fansies of Tartarus and therein agree not one with another Hesiode saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã The dungeon of Tartarus is so farre vnder the earth as heauen is aboue the earth Virgil saith Tartarus ipse bis patet in praeceps tantum Tartarus is twice as deepe as heauen is high And though Homer were blind yet he neuer intended to make Tartarus no part but the lowest parte of Hades And therefore he placed it deepe vnder the higher hades where dead bodies are which Hesiode called the earth For Hades is common as well to the bodies buried as to the soules receiued vnder the earth And therfore your citing Sophocles and Aeschylus vsing Hades for the graue where our bodies rest is an answere to that which you bring out of Homer and an heaping vp of matter no way pertinent to your purpose For thinke you that the graue hath no limitation of place why then are you so copious in things not doubted wholy
speechlesââ¦e in that which you should prooue With as little skill you say ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã in the wordes of Orpheus are to bee construed together and not separately as I reade them but why can you tell What shall become of the coniunction ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã betweene them if the construction must bee aither aides as you set it the interpreter a man well learned doth render it thus in Latine O Rex caeli inferni O King of heauen and of hell And the coniunction ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã is often copulatiue with the Poets and standeth for ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã as your Lexicons will teach you Besides Orpheus purpose is to confesse him whom diuels doe tremble at and Angels doe feare as his wordes presently following doe declare And therefore his meaning was rather to celebrate the Lord of all that is of heauen and hell sea land then of part You expressely collect and confesse page 371. that within Plutoes kingdome vnder the earth which they call Hades as well the places and pleasures for the good as the prisons and punishments for the bad are in their coÌceit prepared setled That the Pagans so thought I doe not denie yet they neuer called Hades heauen as you doe but confessed heauen to be on hie ouer their heads where the Gods immortall were as they supposed not vnder the earth where hades was And can you be so sottish as to say I contradict my selfe because I vouch they limited hades to a place euen vnder the earth and to darknesse in respect of the light of the Sunne which we heere enioy Againe you confesse Hades with them was the Ruler or place of soules were they in rest oâ⦠paine Were you euer prentice to learne to lie or haue you this facilitie by nature You can not touch a place which you doe not falsifie I said with them speaking of Infidels Hades was the Ruler or place of soules that were beneath vnder the earth were they in rest or in paine How is this repugnant either to my selfe or to the trueth You make a strange answer that Christian Religion will assure this place must needs bee hell What that place where some good mens soules deceased are in rest Is this hell Is it hell in Christian Religion who then will henceforth care for hell if some soules haue rest and pleasures in hell Know you not who rideth you when you breake your spurres on a bench and thinke you be on horse-backe That hades is beneath vnder the earth as the Pagans confessed and must needs be hell since Christian religion acknowledgeth no place vnder the earth for soules deceased besides hell I auouched what then what fault findeth your mastership therewith are any there in rest you aske The Pagans so drempt and therefore I say with them it was so that is they supposed it to be so but Christian Religion I replied assureth vs there is no place vnder the earth for soules but only hel Where are now your quicke thicke punctilioes easie hell that you so plea withall The Pagans were of that minde if you list to be one of them you may hope for rest in hell but Christian religion to which I appealed assureth vs that it is a place of torment Cannot your heauy head discerne when I report and refute Pagans opinions and when I propose points of Christian religion But you say also that those heathen Greeks did thinke this place of soules was vnder the earth It is true they thought so indeed and it was their error Then haue you all this while out-faced the trueth when you deriued from them a world of soules without limitation of place and your exposition of the Creed according to their sense must needs inferre that Christes soule after death descended vnder the earth for there is hades by the maine consent of the heathen Greekes as you now confesse And if you place heauen or paradise where the soules of the righteous now are vnder the earth to vphold your Greeke conceits you shall deserue a garland in your new made hades but I dare promise you no rest in your heauen vnder earth except you restore it to the place where God set it that is aboue vs and not beneath vs. That Hades was the proper name of a person and secondly of the place this is not materiall nor to any purpose yet it is questionlesse vtterly vntrue Is it vtterly vntrue that the Pagan Poets for of them I speake tooke Hades chiefly for the ruler of the dead and in that respect called his kingdome vnder the earth also Hades I omit what Diodorus Siculus reporteth as well of antiquitie as of the Poets that they tooke ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades the third sonne of Saturnus to be the inuentor of graues and funerals which was the cause that he was thought to be the God of the dead Antiquitie attributing to him the beginning and care of these things To goe beyond the surmises of the Grecians who tooke their learning and antiquities from the Aegyptians as appeareth by Orpheus Homers iourneyes thither to increase their knowledge the wise men amongst the Chaldeans called with them Magi who were farre more ancient then the Aegyptians as Aristotle and others witnesse taught two chiefe authors of all things ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã A good God and a bad spirit the good was called Zeus or Oromasdes the other was named Hades or Aremanios And to this giue testimonie Theopompus Eudoxus Hernippus ancient writers among the Grecians besides Aristotle who concurreth with them and Plutarke who saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã this is the opinion of the most and the wisest Yea Zoroastres himselfe was of that opinion who liued some thousands of yeeres before the battell of Troy as Plutarke writeth and is taken for Cham the sonne of Noah by our Historiographers Plinie maketh him elder then Moses by many thousands of yeeres Shew me now as auncient testimonies that the place was called Hades as I shew you that the person was so named and I will yeeld If you can not prate not so presumptuously that questionlesse this is vtterly vntrue To my assertion there is no one place in trueth common to all soules departed this life but some are in heauen and some are in hell you answer yet neuerthelesse As they are some where within the compasse of the created world so are they in a common place This As doth so haunt you that you can doe nothing without it As they are in the created world so they are in one common place Then hell and heauen with you make but one place and consequently Christ sitting at the right hand of God is with all the elect angels in the same place with the diuell and the damned and we liuing heere on earth since we are in the created world are both in the same place with Christ
also in the same place with the damned Such new Cosmographie well becommeth your new Diuinitie without such misshapen Asses you are not able to open your mouth But if this be your best defence for your new found Hades your Reader I trust will be better aduised before he will be in the same place or minde with you The Scriptures teach vs to distinguish places according to their names giuen them by God himselfe as heauen earth and hell and not to make all one common place or world of soules which you haue newly created We stand not so much on this that by hades must be vnderstood any one place common to all the dead but the state and condition of death among the dead All this while you haue beene prouing that hades is an inuisible place and so doth Ambrosse expound it aïdes is a place not seene which we call Hell now you can not tell how to bring heauen and hell which are so farre distant asunder to be one common place you would faine reduce them to one common state or condition of death when the Scriptures euery where make them opposite ascribing light and life to the one and darkenesse and death to the other But you haue found one common condition of death in both which is to want their bodies What say you then to Elias who was caried vp to heauen or to Paradise aliue and neuer died Are he and the rest who rose from their graues with Christ in the common condition of death What say you to Core Dathan Abiram and their company who descended aliue to hades are they free from the condition of death in hades because they haue their bodies Meere priuations are no conditions or states And therefore to want their bodies for a time either in heauen or in hell maketh no common estate to both no more than that they are all soules and contained in some certaine limitation of place which nothing touch their condition or state otherwise the damned in hell and the blessed in heauen shall alwayes haue one common state and condition because they shall eternally be fastned to their places and shall haue their soules vnited to their bodies and shall remember things past and such like which yet do not performe one common estate or condition to both since they shall haue so many contraries to make them differ euen as now they haue though degrees of ioy and paine shall then increase The Pagans esteemed indeed a part of his dominion to be hell properly but a part also to be the region of the happie This is like the rest of your trueths Did the Pagans know or acknowledge none other heauen but hades Did euer man so write or speake that had read but one leafe of prose or Poetrie neuer read you what Cicero citeth out of Ennius Romulus in caelo cum Dijs agit aeuum Romulus enioyeth eternitie with the Gods in heauen And addeth of his owne Quid totum propè coelum nonne humano genere completum est The whole heauen is it not almost replenished with mankind Homer and the rest of the Greeke Poets were not ignorant hereof nor silent herein Of Hercules Homer sayth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã He doth solace himselfe with the immortall Gods And what was ouranos with them if hades were their heauen Arristotle sayth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã The highest place of the world being the seat or habitation of God is called heauen To this heauen the Poets admitted the sons of their Gods obscurely lighting on that rule of true religion the sons of God shal inherit the kingdome of God but the Philosophers plainly affirme of iustice and pietie ea vita via est in coelum such a life is the way to heauen And for al the helpers encreasers and preseruers of their countrey certum esse in coelo ac dââ¦finitum locum vbi beati aeuo sempiterno fruantur there is a set and certaine place in heauen where they shall enioy euerlasting blessednesse The Greeke Poets then were not ignorant of heauen aboue when they sent most men departing this life to Hades beneath but they had heard somewhat of that diuine sentence which adiudged mankind for sinne to death both of body and Soule and thereupon as there manner is to multiply their owne fansies and fables they placed all mortall men in Hades below and yet allowed the better sort of men some ease and comfort though they neuer brought them to heauen except they thought them the sonnes of some God What is this to the true heauen which is the glorious seate of God and the euerlasting habitation of his Angels and Saints Why yoke you Gods trueth with Poeticall fables and humane fansies as if the one were not onely a meet paterne for the other but the same place with the other How commeth hades to be al one with the created world and so not only men liuing are in hades but Saints and Angels yea Christ himselfe is still in hades since neither he nor they are without the compasse of the created world So large is your predicament of hades that the whole world is scant wide enough for it After this you reade vs a lecture of more than two leaues how the Apostles taught the trueth of the Gospell with the very words of the heathens and as you make rules for their speech at your pleasure so you take paines to bring no authour for all that you say besides your selfe I haue heard so many of your trifling and wandering discourses that I am starke wearie with reading them and if it haue no better weight than your word you may keepe your winde and saue your labour Who doubteth but the Holy Ghost might and did correct as well the words as errours of the heathens and reduced both their eares and hearts to the vnderstanding and imbracing of the Gospell Wherefore such words as Infidels abused and defiled with their wicked imaginations the Apostles of Christ restrained and applied to expresse the trueth thereby teaching the heathen to keepe their words and leaue their errours and not framing the Gospel to the prophane sense or vse of their speech What conclude you hence for hades That the Apostles retained the erroneous sense of that word and made it worse than the Pagans did For the heathen vsed that word for places vnder the earth where soules after this life were kept and you would haue the Apostles vse it for Heauen and Paradise where the soules of the righteous are as well as for hell where the damned are Leaue therefore your idle vagaries the Apostles vsed the word hades for the places vnder the earth where soules were detained as the heathen did but in this they redressed the Pagans conceits that they as naturall men dreamed of bodily pleasures in hades which the Scriptures make a place of torment with perpetuall fire Put this correction to the Poets opinion of hades as touching
the condition of soules thither adiudged and I see no danger in the vse of hades for hell since the Pagans by that word intended the places vnder earth where the wicked after this life were punished A Philosopher will rarely and sometime perhaps note the aire by Tartarus yet vsually and in a manner alwayes they ment hell by it Yet Peter not Canonizing their dreames of hell notwithstanding signifieth hell indeed by that worde of theirs according to the common vse thereof Though the Poets vse not Tartarus as often as they doe Hades for the receite of soules after death yet it is false which you say that in a manner alwayes they ment the dungeon of hell by it It is an vsuall phrase among the Poets for the place where soules were bestowed after death as Hades is Pindarus expressing the inconstancie of mans life saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Thou must goe to the deepe of darke Tartarus by ineuitable necessity Moschus wisheth he might goe thither to heare Bion sing there ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã O if I might goe downe to Tartarus as did Orpheus Vlysses or Hercules Hesiode sheweth how the destenies as soone as any man was wounded or slaine seased on him and sent his soule ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã to cold Tartarus Anacreon giuing a reason why though he be old he is loth to die saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã I sigh often fearing Tartarus for the chamber of Hades is grieuous So Theognis and others vse Tartarus for Hades without any distinction betwixt them And where you say Peter signifieth hell indeed by that word you may meete with many that will tell you Saint Peter there calleth the aire about aboue the earth by that name as well as the places vnder the earth and that in respect of the light which the reprobate Angels did before enioy in heauen this world may iustly be called darkenesse Zanchius saith By this name Peter vnderstood not the place onely which is vnder the earth sed imprimis ipsum aerem but chiefly this aire the whole space beneath this moone For in this regioÌ are the diuels kept captiues as the Apostle teacheth calling the diuell the Prince of this aire Saint Austin saith as much Let vs not doubt but the sinfull Angels were cast into this aeriall mist about the earth as into a prison according to the Apostles faith kept to be punished in iudgement Aretius Hiperius Beza and others are of the same mind So that this signification of Tartarus was not taken from the heathen as you presume but is a comparison with their former state when they were Angels of light and adorned with brightnesse within and without who now are throwen from their hight and plunged into outward and inward darknesse The very naturall Etymologie of the word according to the Grammar doth properly signifie VNSEENE or not seene any more in this world topos aides an vnseene place as Plato calleth it Where note it cannot bee referred to the estate of Angels but of them that had once a visible and ordinarie being and conuersation heere in this world You hang this geere together with hookes Hades you say is properly not seene any more in this world yet it is tópos áides an vnseene place as Plato calleth it You haue gotten you three starting holes vnder the couert of Hades the place vnseene the person not seene any more in this world the state inuisible but you hide your selfe so vnhandsomely in them that when you thinke your selfe most inuisible all the world may see your open follie Was the place of Hades euer seene in this world I trust not Then Hades is topos aides a place which neuer man liuing saw for a man must bee dead before he can come to that place You graunt the Grammaticall Etymologie of the word Hades is to signifie a place vnseene as Plato calleth it How come you then to applie this to the person or state not seene any more in this world by which you would exclude Angels from being in hades It is euident that the Poets made Hades a person and supplie ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã hadou very often with domous or such like as ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã to the housen of Hades and call him ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades the God with the blacke lockes of haire Was this ruler of the places below which is the diuell euer aliue with vs in this world If he neuer had no visible state in this life and yet is properly and originally called Hades as I haue shewed before then Hades is that which was neuer seene in this world and doth agree as well to Angels for all your noting as to diuels if it import no more but that which is vnseene of vs. But who warranteth this interpretation besides your selfe Let aïdes stand for vnseene how prooue you as you conceiue that it inferreth a state once seene in this world and now by death vnseene I say vnseene applied to hades is neuer seene of any man liuing and not as you wrest it now no longer seene And so your Etymologie maketh nothing for you And what if hades deriued from aïdes signifie that place where nothing can be seene for lacke of light doe you not finely strip your Reader with an vnseene sleite as you thinke but indeed with a sensible deluding of the trueth peruse your masters of the Greeke tongue and tell mee whether theâ⦠do not take hades for the place where nothing can be seene by reason of darkenesse Sophocles calleth it ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã blacke Hades Euripides calleih it ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã the house without sunne light Theognis calleth it ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã the blacke gates Homer saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades had for his share the darke mist to dwell in Plutarch sayth of Hades ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã hee is darke and master of the blacke night The great and learned Etymologist of the Greeke tongue whom your Lexicons refuse not in most words to follow giueth this exposition ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã áides is that place wherein we see nothing For Hades is an house of darkenesse The place then wherein nothing can bee seene for darkenesse is properly by the masters of the Greeke tongue and by the right Etymologic of the word called Hades and all your expositions and applications be forced and framed to your owne fansies without any iust cause or reason but onely to serue your owne humours The Apostles tooke the word Gehenna from the Hebrewes and vsed it properly for hell Therefore they need not alter hades for that purpose for which they had another proper word Christ speaking to the Iewes vsed the word Gehenna for hell fire which they best vnderstood and Saint Iames writing to the Iewes dispersed saith The tongue is inflamed of Gehenna But the rest of the Apostles that instructed
after Like sheepe in Sheol shall they be put is the occasion but no iustification of your error since the verbe they shall be laid or put hath no sense at all except you repeate Sheol with the preposition after it and say they shal be laid in Sheol like sheepe So that vnlesse you will bee more then like a sheepe you must leaue this kind of collecting Your quoting of the Prophet Abacuk and of the Prouerbes to shew that all things are in Hades because neither Hades nor death can bee satisfied is much like your sheepe in Sheol Doe proud men couet chaulke and chibols because in the same verse it is said they can be no more satisfied then death and Sheol I winne not but rather as death and Sheol cannot be satisfied with bodies and soules of men which are things by them desired and receiued no more can the proud oppressour be satisfied with the spoiles of many countries but seeketh to gather vnto him all nations and to heape vnto him all people euen as death and Sheol doe The place of the Prouerbes which you bring ioyneth with Sheol a barren wombe and the earth which cannot bee satisfied with water And thence you can no more conclude that all kind of creatures are in Sheol then that they are in a womans wombe which is barren And but that I see men loose their wits aswell as their senses in Hades I should much maruaile what were become of yours all this while that speake not onely so impertinently and vntowardly but so absurdly and ridiculously that men will stoppe their eares for very shame if you will not stoppe your mouth Yet we must comeneerer You alleage two friuilous proofes of sheols signifying hell viz. when it hath opposition to beauen and situation as the lowest For the situation of hell it is a secret which Gods word hath not reuealed at all Neither ought we to determine as you very rashly doe if hell be any where there can be no doubt but it must be in the lower parts of the earth You that haue ranged so farre both from the trueth and from the matter in question had need at length come somewhat neerer The proofes produced by me that Sheol when it is opposed to heauen or described to be in the lowest parts of the earth importeth hell are not so friuolous as your follie maketh them they are grounded on better and surer rules of holy Scriptures then are your toyes of birds and beastes in Hades And first touching the place of hell below in the earth which you labour to crosse as much as you can though I before haue shewed the constant opinion of old and new writers yet can I be content to reason it farder with you because you and your friends are deuising new hels and heauens euen as you are hammering of a new Hades That hell is a place of torment the Gospel is euident Being a place it must be either in heauen aboue vs or in earth beneath vs except you will coyne vs a new Creede and say God is creator of heauen earth and of hell also which is neither in heauen nor in earth But you may not controle the Creede except you will also correct the Scriptures For that diuision of the created world into heauen and earth is witnessed in infinite places of holy Scripture to be most sufficient Hell then since it is somewhere must be within the earth vnder vs except you will make it a part of heauen ouer vs and then must men ascend to hell as they doe to heauen and no longer descend But the Scriptures are plaine that hell is beneath vs if they make mention at all of any hell which perhaps you will call in question as well as you doe the rest Those whom the Apostle calleth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã which stoupe to the power of Christs kingdome and confesse him to be their Lord who are they but reprobate and condemned men and Angels and where is the place of the punishment but vnder the earth since dead bodies can neither yeeld subiection nor make confession vnto Christ you selfe graunt Abyssus in the Scripture doth signifie a vast and deepe gulfe in the earth and Abyssus is a place whither the Diuels feare to be sent where they are chained and bound when pleaseth God Now euidently by the Scriptures from this Abyssus to the earth is an ascent no descent And therefore the dungeon for diuels which is hell is vnder vs that are in earth not aboue vs. The very name of Gehenna vsed by our Sauior for hell confessed by you to be the most proper name of hell doth it not conuince hell to be Gehennam ignis a vale of fire and where are there vales but in earth hell is called Ge-hinnon saith Peter Martyr because a vale being a low and deepe place doth resemble hell quod infra terram esse creditur which is beleeued to be vnder the earth The pit lake also which are words vsed bythe holy Ghost to expresse hell as the pit of perdition and lake burning with fire and brimstone doe confirme the same since there are no pits nor lakes but in the earth By Moses God saith A fire is kindled in my wrath and shall burne to the lower Sheol and inflame the foundations of the Mountaines A man would thinke these wordes were plaine enough to prooue the lower Sheol to bee vnder the foundations of the hils and that there burneth the fire of Gods wrath with which the wicked are punished after this life Of the lower earth I haue spoken before and prooued it to be equiualent with hell in the iudgement of the best Hebraicians and Diuines of our times And if the lower earth be hell then is hell without question in the lower parts of the earth Bullingere saith As touching the place of punishment where the soules and bodies of the wicked are tormented the Scripture simply pronounceth saying the wicked descend to hell vnde constat inferos esse infra nos in terris constitutos whereby it is certaine that hell is beneath vs that abide heere on earth We must throughly maintaine against scoffing Epicures saith Gualtere that there is a certaine place prepared for the wicked into which their soules straight after death and their bodies after the resurrection are receiued Of which place Moses speaketh when he writeth that Core Dathan and Abiram were swallowed vp with the gaping of the earth and descended aliue with all theirs to hell But hauing treated thereof in sundrie places before I will end with a verse of Sibyllaes prophesie alleaged and allowed for a Christian trueth by Lactantius Austin and Prosper where speaking of the last iudgement and the signes and consequents of that day she saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã The earth gaping or cleauing in sunder shall then shew or lay open
the very Tartarean Chaos or dungeon of hell You know the Apostle mentioneth the Aire and that on high as being the place of diuels Notwithstanding farre be it from me to affirme that hell certainely is not beneath Yet your pretended Scriptures are meerely forced to prooue it Your are lighted iust on Master Broughtons argument whose folly hath filled many sheetes afore and now all his Religion learning and reasons are emptied in the fourth part of one poore printed sheete of the lesser size of paper Onely in this he shewed some witte that he foresaw of such brainesicke stuffe the least would be the best But doe you vnderstand for he is not worthy an answere who can frame himselfe to nothing but to rage and riddles that which the Psalmist saith of the elect Angels God shall giue his Angels charge ouer thee to keepe thee in all thy waies or which the Apostle saith They are all ministring spirits sent foorth for their sakes which shall be heires of Saluation Doth this prooue there are no Angels in heauen I troe not Their office is here to attend and defend the faithfull and yet heauen is the place of their habitation whither they repaire with vnspeakeable celeritie when their speciall seruice is finished So the diuels haue hell appointed for the place of their condemnation and thither they cary and there they torment the wicked as also they are commaunded to the deepe and chained there at Gods becke notwithstanding some of them are by Gods wisedome and patience permitted to wander in the ayre and compasse the earth to tempt the wicked to trie the godly to shew their power vpon the creatures and bewray their malice against the Church of God Wherefore the ayre and earth are the places of their seeing and assaulting vs but hell is their home to be remanded thither vpon any the least occasion when pleaseth God The griefe terror and torment of their inward confusion obscuration malediction and condemnation they alwaies beare about them and within them being no way freed or eased of that wheresoeuer they goe but they are often spared from the place of torment which is the deepe that they feare and shun and yet know they must all thither at last to be terribly and eternally plagued and punished there for all their hatefull impieties and villanies They therefore during the time of our warfare conflict with them gouerne the darkenes of this world and Rule in the Ayre yet not all nor onely there they haue their chiefe their powers and principalities and their kingdome is not diuided against it selfe yet the strength and terror of their kingdome is in hell which they neither doe will nor can forsake how fearefull soeuer the place be to themselues as well for the present paines there as for remembrance it shall be in the ende of the world their perpetuall prison when their torments shall be exceedingly increased and they not suffered to start from thence The Scriptures which I brought you say are meerely forced to prooue Hell to be beneath And why because Sheol in the Scriptures by your conceite doth no where signifie hell that Sheól is a vast and deepe gulfe in the earth the bottome whereof we know not your selfe admit Then if the wicked dead or aliue descend to this vast deepe and vnknowen gulfe in the earth whither go they I pray you to the graue or to hell To goe aliue to the graue were somewhat strange and yet the graue is no deepe nor vnknowen gulfe but to descend aliue or dead to the bottom of the earth were more stranger if hell be not ment by that gulfe in the earth And if no more be ment by descending aliue to Sheol then to fall aliue into a cleft of the earth there to die the terrible iudgement of God executed on Core and his companie for their rebellion in the sight of all Israell is vtterly cluded since to fall into a deepe well or Cole-pit and there to die is as great a punishment as they suffered and is a descending aliue to Sheol as theirs was And where is the fire of Gods wrath inflaming the foundations of the hils and burning to the bottome of Sheol is that also in your gulfe of the earth and not in hell which Moses saith is the lower Sheol And how can dead men whose carkasses either lie on the earth vnburied as the King of Babylon did or are layed in their graues descend to Sheol beneath or to the lower earth if neither of these import hell but a vast and deepe gulfe in the earth whither dead bodies neuer come this for the Situation of Sheol what say you now to the opposition of Sheol to heauen Euery opposition betweene Shammaijm the heauens or skies and Sheol doth not signifie the opposition betweene heauen and hell Shammaijm thus placed signifieth the skies not the very place of Gods heauenly glory in the presence of God which in English we call heauen When Sheol is opposed is opposed in the Scriptures to Shammaijm the ground of the opposition is either the heigth of the one and the depth of the other or the glory and felicitie in the one and destruction and miserie in the other In those three places Iob 11. vers 8. Psal. 139. vers 8. Amos 9. vers 2. the perfection presence and power of God are expressed to be higher then Shammaijm and deeper then Sheol Now doth your religion serue you to restraine any of these three to the skies and the graue and not to make them superior to the highest heauen and deeper then the lowest Sheol Shammaijm you say is the skie as well as the heauen of the blessed Shammaijm is the ayre also where birds flie as well as the skies Doe you therefore thinke it a meete comparison for the presence or power of God to say that if you clime to the top of an high steeple which standeth in the ayre the hand of God can reach you there as though it were enough for the perfection presence and power of God to reach to the skies and you were skant resolued whether you should graunt it to stretch any farder But though you cauill with Hades quarrell not with God His perfection presence and power are infinite aboue the highest heauen and beneath the deepest Sheol yea these comparisons do not match him but leade vs to those places where the most wonderfull workes of God are to which no man liuing can ascend or descend much lesse can we search or attaine to the heigth or depth of him or his perfection presence or power And this is so plainely comprised in those places that none but an irreligious and impious conceiter will doubt thereof Canst thou by searching sinke out God or trace the Alââ¦ghtic to his perfection saith the booke of Iob. the heauens are high where his glory dwelleth what canst thou doe it is deeper then Sheol how canst
serueth For that a vast and deepe gulfe in the earth should be nothing els but an abolishing of any visible creatures hence or that this should be the most proper sense of Sheol and your vast and deepe gulfe a resemblance thereof this hath neither top nor toe If Sheol be properly nothing but a priuation how can it be a vast and deepe gulfe in the earth or what proportion or similitude hath the one with the other These are therefore nothing but your fictions imagined of your owne braine to delude the Scriptures and to auoide the lower Sheol indeed which is the place of torment for the damned How Capernaum was exalted to heauen whether in her owne proud conceit after the example of the king of Babylon of whom Esaie speaketh or whether Christ ment that by reason of his often preaching and working miracles amongst them the kingdome of God was in the midst of them but not receaued nor regarded by them which some thinke to be the meaning of this place I stand indifferent so long as we keepe Sheol opposite to heauen I meane not to the clouds nor to the skies as you would shift the matter but to the place aboue where the way of life is and the brightnesse of Gods glorie that thereby we may conceaue in the lower sheol darknesse and death for euer euen as in the higher sheol both are for the time The way of life saith Salomon is on high neither in the clouds nor starres but in the seat of the blessed euen in heauen to him that declineth Sheol below Where speaking of eternall life since bodily life is heere on earth he warneth vs that eternall death is in sheol below The rest of your stuffe is not woorth the sticking at For what if God by Ieremie threatned Babylon that though her walles were thicke and her gates high the one should be broken and the other burned and though she should mount vp to heauen by raising her walles neuer so high yet her destroyers should come from God Doth this being spoken of the walles and gates which should be razed prooue that her walles and gates should descend to Sheol Where hath the prophet any such words of the walles gates or buildings of Babylon And for you to expound Sheol by what you list is a larger commission then I know any you haue I haue no doubt but walles and gates cannot reach vnto the clouds much lesse to the starres and therefore heauen applied to them standeth for that which riseth on high in the aire but that the pride of the king of Babel lifted it selfe aboue the clouds and starres I haue prooued by the plaine report of the Prophet against which no exception can be taken Next let vs view the Corinthians O death where is thy victorie ô hades ô destruction or ô power of death where is thy sting Heere it is referred to the destruction of the whole and intire persons of men taken away by death out of this world What is now become of your world of soules which you so often vrged as properly signified by hades What is become of your vast and deepe gulfe in the earth which sheol and hades did import as yon told vs but euen now Nay what is become of your destruction of stones and their descending to Hades which you said was threatned to Capernaum Are all these out of date and in euerie new place must you be forced to frame vs a new Hades You will rest somewhere at last if it be possible for your vnquiet head to haue or like any rest Well now then hades is the destruction of the whole person of man taken out of this world by death And why should not hades heere be taken for hell The whole scope and drift of the Apostle heere is to speake of the resurrection of the bodie and you graunt it What then The Saints receauing their bodies endued with immortalitie may they not reioice in their deliuerance from corruption and insult as hauing then the full victorie ouer hell and death Our full deliuerance from hell and from Satan is obtained in this life as it is written we being deliuered from our enemies and from the handes of all that hate vs. We are so deliuered from their hands or power which is all one that we shall not need to feare them but we are not yet actually freed from their snares since we daily must pray not to be ledde or left into temptation neither are all our enemies yet fully destroied since as the Apostle saith the last enemie that shall be destroied is death If all Christes enemies were put vnder his and our feete he should no longer raigne as Redeemer and Sauiour of his Church for he must raigne till he hath put all his enemies vnder his feete and then shall deliuer vp the kingdome to God euen the Father which is not before the end And yet were all things granted which you intend it helpeth you not one whit for may not the saints giue thankes for all euen then when all is fully finished though part be before perfourmed And may they not iustly reioice against all the power of Satan I meane sinne hell and death when the last enemie is in sight conquered though they be formerly freed from sinne and fully deliuered from the danger and feare of hell Your speech is very bad and scandalous where you say the bodies of the Saints lying in their graues are in the diuels walke For then the graues where bodies lie senselesse are a part of hell properly taken You told vs euen now that the aire on high was the place of diuels thinke you much that vpon occasion I should say the graues vnder the earth are within Satans walke The booke of Iob saith Satan compasseth the earth and walketh in it And Peter confirmeth the same saying He walketh about seeking whom he may deuoure So that the diuels walke for all your saying is farre larger then hell And if our Lord and master most truely said of the woman which was crooked and could not lift vp herselfe in any wise that Satan had bound that daughter of Abraham lo eighteene yeeres may not the dead bodies of Abrahams children be in Satans walk as well as their liuing bodies be in Satans bands And you that be so curious in other mens speeches doe you looke to your owne Doe not you defend that the soules of the blessed in heauen may be said to be in inferno and vnder the power of death whereof the Diuell hath the rule by the Apostles doctrine we being heere truely iustified by Gods grace are fully freed and deliuered from all the power of our enemies Are we so fully freed that we can neither sinne nor die or are sinne and death no parts of Satans power When I speake of a full conquest ouer hell and death in both parts of man soule and
bodie which is not performed before the bodie rise to glorie you turne it as if I professed our redemption from hell to be imperfect till the last day And when I mention with Saint Paul the redemption of our bodies from corruption which shall not be before the resurrection you would inferre thereupon if you could tell how that the bodies of the Saints remaine subiect to the power of hell to the curse of the law and to the claime of Satan Thus you runne on like a riotous spaniel chalenging vpon euery foote but finding nothing With like wit and trueth you inferre vpon my wordes where I say the death of the body was inflicted on mankind as part of the wages of sinne that therefore the godly must pay a part of their owne redemption and satisfaction for sinne and then Christ was not our onely and absolute redeemer But which way doth this follow can you tell punishment for sinne is in our persons neither redemption nor satisfaction for sinne in Christs person it was both Know you not the difference betwixt Christs person and ours But I say pa. 216. that the bodies of the dead Saints are in the possession of hell and in the handfact of hell In wresting and wrangling is all your grace Where some auncient writers seeme to say that Christ deliuered some of the Saints out of the present possession of hell all the defence I said that could any way be made out of the Scriptures to excuse this was to take hell improperly for the sting and wound of bodily death which Satan the ruler of hell procured to man by sinne For sinne death and corruption are the workes of the Diuell which Christ came to dissolue God made not death as the wiseman obserueth but created man without corruption and through the enuie of the Diuell came death into the world This then being one of the wounds which Satan through sinne gaue vnto our first father and all his ofspring this is not perfectly cured but with the resurrection of our bodies to eternall life though the poyson of this wound bee in the meane time allayed and the danger secured And thus whiles I seeke to mitigate other mens wordes and to extenuate the name and power of hell vnderstanding thereby nothing but the dissolution of mans life and corruption of mans bodie which Satan occasioned by sinne you make the Reader beleeue I take the name of hell properly for the power and right that hell hath ouer the bodies of the wicked and teach that the Saints are not deliuered from hell till their bodies rise from death which when you list you can find to bee refuted elswhere by me and therefore to be no part of my meaning heere How death is an enemie which must be destroyed aswell as sinne and hell we neede not your commentarie except it were stoared with better Diuinitie It hindreth the Saints you graunt from enioying their appointed felicitie yet as a peaceable and quiet stop Ascribe you this peace and quietnesse to their bodies voide of life and sense or to their soules staied from the full fruition of eternall glorie by that meanes And troe you the soules of the Saints be well and quietly content to lacke their appointed felicitie not at all to desire it or not earnestly to pray for it were plainly to loath it and not obediently to expect it Wherefore they exceedingly affect and instantly pray for the destruction of this enemie that keepeth their bodies in dishonour and corruption and hindereth their spirits from enioying that glorie which shal be reucaled in the last time which appeareth by their vehement prayer in the Reuelation how long O Lord holy and true doest thou not iudge and auenge our bloud on them that dwell on the earth Where they in heauen seeke not reuenge on them for whom they prayed in earth but they expresse their continuall and ardent desire for that day when they shall be wholy conformed to Christ their head And when they are willed to rest for a season they gladly submit themselues to the will and wisedome of God but meane while they hate death as an hinderer of that blisse and ioy which they so much loue and long for and shall no doubt reioyce exceedingly when this last enemie is swallowed vp in victorie as the rest were before But let death be an enemie which way you will how doth this conclude that Hades here 1. Corinth 15. in no sort signifieth hell The very text seemeth thus to expound it selfe saying where is thy sting O Hades the sting of death is sinne Where the later seemeth a direct exposition of the former noting these two wordes Hades and death as Synonymas for one thing being applied to men When you talke of the text of holy Scripture you should not leaue the wordes that are extant in all our printed copies retained and alleaged by the best and most of the Greeke Fathers as likewise of our new writers and cleane to the single conceite of some one man taking vpon him to correct all the printed copies that euer he saw and of his owne authoritie to alter the Originall I doe not therefore by your and his leaue admit this for Saint Pauls text since it is his priuate change of the wordes in the Greeke against all the copies that are either manu-scripts or printed at this day His owne confession is this Contrario ordine legunt hunc locum non modo Graeci omnes codices quos inspeximus sed etiam Syrus Arabs interpretes Not onely all the Greeke copies that we haue seene but the Syriack Arabick Interpreters read this place in a contrarie order that is they put these words ô Hades where is thy victorie in the last place which you set in the first and the other words ô death where is thy sting they set first which you will haue to be last Thus then stand the Apostles wordes cleane contrarie to that which you bring ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã O death where is thy sting O Hades wher is thy victorie And in this order doe Luther Erasmus Zuinglius Peter Martyr Caluine Bullingere Gualtere Aretius Hemmingius Hyperius Osiander Marlorate and I know not how many more both keepe and cite that text in Latin vbi tuus mors aculeus vbi tua Inferne victoria Where is thy sting O death where is thy victorie O hell And touching the Greeke copies and Fathers that are auncient and obserue the same order of the wordes for the Apostles text we haue Origen Athanasius Nazianzene Nyssene Epiphanius x Chrysostome x Oecumenius and though the translatours of x Theodoret and x Theophylact retaine the wordes of the old Latin Bible in this place for the text yet there is no likelihood that these two in their own tongue varied from the rest specially Theophylact who in his commenting
I trust you dare not endure Perhaps your meere priuations shall be euerlastingly punished in hell the danger is not great for them since nothing can be no where nor feele no paine and so not in hell But after many deuices and aduices you say the power and dominion of death shall be cast into hell That shall vtterly cease at the resurrection when all soules are ioyned to their bodies againe How then shall that which wholy and finally ceaseth be cast into hell You meane it shall bee eternally abolished This is an erection of a new hell and no part of the old Happy were the damned both men and spirits if they might be cast into this new hell of yours that is vtterly and eternally be abolished But these be mockeries in themselues and falsities against the Christian faith That which is cast into the lake of fire shall there euerlastingly burne and not consume but dure in perpetuall torment Shall your dominion of bodily death euerlastingly burne in hell And shall it also feele the force of that fire You must then make Hades a person for besides persons nothing shal be cast into hell fire And if it be a person it must be a diuell or a man except you will find out a place for it amongst your sheepe and cattell that you sent aliue to Hell But such childish and peeuish deuices are not worth the refuting The Reader may see what it is for men to forsake the learned and sound expositions and assertions of auncient Fathers and betake themselues to their fresh and new fansies of which thy cannot tell what to make nor how to speake Though you meane the containing to be put for the contained hell for the diuels of hell as one Andreas and Bede likewise vnderstand it yet neither you nor they it seemeth doe consider that this place assigneth them to hell at the last day who yet then are not in hell But the Diuels are in hell alreadie Therefore the diuels cannot be vnderstood heere by Hades Can a man be so sottish vnlesse hee were besides himselfe as not to find that all this while he refuteth his owne falsifications of Saint Iohns wordes and not any position of mine nor of these two learned writers whom he disdaineth as not considering where the diuels are before the day of iudgement They doe not say the diuels shall then be cast into hell this is your coltish conceit from which you will not depart but into the lake of fire prepared as our Sauiour pronounceth for the diuell and his Angels And how come you now in your heate so hastily to determine where hell is which not long since you called rashnesse in me you told vs ere while The Apostle mentioneth the aire on high as being the place of Diuels Put to this that which heere you say the Diuels are in hell alreadie you meane the place of hell or else you say nothing against Andreas and Bede whom you would confute as not considering where the Diuels are Doe not you then determine that hell is in the aire on high and so not onely condemne your selfe of rashnesse by your owne verdict but gainesay the Scriptures who testifie that the diuels desired Christ not to commaund them into the deepe Yea by this resolution of yours the face of the earth where wee liue is hell since the diuels are heere also and compasse the earth and walke therein So that if we let you alone in steed of one hell you will make vs three the aire the earth the deepe since in all these three it cannot bee denied but the Diuels are And yet for all your tripping so light on the toe the diuels may and shal be at the last day cast into hell that is affixed to the place and torments there from which they shall not stirre as now they doe whiles the iustice of God doth suffer them to vphold and encrease their kingdome here on earth And where you vouch of your hades that it shall at the last day of iudgement be throwen into hell that is eternally be abolished as you conceaue and deriue your Hades that day shall enlarge it more then euer before and so continue it so reuer For all visible creatures in heauen and earth saue men shall after that day haue no more any being at all yea the first heauen and the first earth shall passe away and there shall be no more any sea which will greatly enrich your generall Hades that containeth the destruction of vnreasonable things and the perishing of visible creatures from hence as the proper Etymologie thereof admitteth Nay if the very naturall Etymologie of the word according to Grammar doe properly signifie NOT SEENE ANY MORE IN THIS WORLD as you affirme it doth then all both good and bad be they in heauen or hell shall after the day of iudgement be properly and euerlastingly in Hades For they shall neuer be seene any more in this world whose figure passeth away without returning and giueth place for euer to the world to come And this your Hades which you would cast into hell there to bee for euer abolished shall by the naturall Etymologie and proper signification thereof confessed and vrged by your selfe not only continue in hell and in heauen but comprise them both seeing the Citizens of either shall not be seene any more in this world Lastly heere is shewed the most generall and vniuersall rendring vp of all the dead whatsoeuer to iudgement But hell plainly hath not all the dead Therefore death and Hades doe not heere properly signifie the diuell and Hell When you say heere is shewed the vniuersall rendring vp of all the dead whatsoeuer to iudgement If you meane this of death hades that they rendred vp all the dead that came to iudgement you vouch a manifest vntrueth repugnant to the very wordes of Saint Iohn going next before for thus his wordes stand And the sea gaue vp her dead which were in her and death and Hades deliuered vp the dead which were in them So that all the dead were not rendred to iudgement by death and Hades the Sea had part by Saint Iohns owne speech and therefore death and Hades heere doe not signifie the Dominion of death which reacheth to the sea aswell as to the earth Againe Saint Iohn in the twelfth verse saw the dead both great and small stand before God And in the thirteenth he addeth the Sea also gaue vp her dead and death and hell deliuered vp the dead which were in them Hee saw then some dead stand before God which neither the Sea nor hades deliuered And since Paul telleth vs that the dead in Christ shall rise first and God will bring them which sleepe in Iesus with him to iudgement what hindreth but the dead in the twelfth of Saint Iohn may be the elect and the rest be deliuered vp from the deepe of the Sea and of
Hades as is mentioned in the thirteenth verse If you like not this shew vs a reason why the earth is here ouerskipt in which are the most of the dead bodies both of good bad vnlesse it were because no doubt was of the earth in refunding her dead and we will make you a playner explication of these parts which now seeme somewhat doubtfull Howbeit death and Hades cannot stand for one and the selfe same thing as you would haue them since the holy Ghost applieth the plurall number to them and maketh them places not phrases to containe the dead in them by saying death and Hades gaue vp the dead which were in them Words haue no dead in them but places haue which because S. Iohn maketh to bee plurall death and Hades cannot here be taken for one thing Neither were those writers whom you reiect so inconsiderate as not easily to wipe away the force of your faint reasons Bede vpon these words the Sea death and hell gaue vp their dead saith Iohn signifieth the bodies shal be gathered from the earth and their soules from their seuerall places The good vnder the name of death which suffered onelie the dissolution of their bodies and no farder punishment the euill he designeth by the name of hell Andreas Caesariensis taketh the Sea for the earth as Bede doth either because they thought the earth should then be plaine like the sea as Sibylla prophesied Equââ¦ntur campis montes hills and vales shall then be all euen or because heauen and earth were before said to be fled away from his face that sate on the throne and their place no more to be found or for that at the mutation of the world the earth shall melt and burne all ouer like a sea of fire and of the rest he saith Death is the separation of the soule from the body Hades is a place to vs vnseene that is darke and vnknowen which receaueth the dead soules departing hence And those soules are dead which cary with them dead works For the soules of the iust as the wise man saith are in the hands of God and no torment shall touch them Dead soules I read with the interpreter and not our soules as the Printer in Greeke hath mistaken the word ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã for ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã not onely because the interpreter had first the copie before him and tooke more care to render it right then the Printer but also for that the Author in the very next words declareth what he ment by dead soules before of which there is no mention precedent if that word be not kept where the translator putteth it Saint Austen taketh the sea for this world and shewing how those that liue on earth may be called dead euen by warrant of holy Scripture and this life be counted no better then a death addeth Nec frustra fortasse non satis fuit vt diceret mors aut infernus sed vtrumque dictum est Neither happily without cause was it not enough to say death or hell but both are named death for the good who might suffer onely death and not also hell and hell for the wicked which are punished in hell And of the next words death and hell were cast into the lake of fire he saith His nominibus significans Diabolum quoniam mortis est author infernarum poenarum vniuersamque simul Daemonum societatem By these names Saint Iohn signifieth the diuell because he is the Author or first occasioner of death and hell-paines withall the whole multitude of diuels Primasius as he was S. Austens scholar so doth he writing vpon the reuelation retaine S. Austens sense and sentences as they are alleaged next before Aretas writing on the same words S. Iohn saith he meaneth those that haue done things worthy of this punishment ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã making vp the people of the second death Death and hades gaue vp their dead By death saith Haymo we may simply vnderstand the death of the flesh by hell the places of darkensse Death and hades that is all the members of the Diuell with their head were cast into the lake of fire that is into the deepe damnation of hell And rightly are all the reprobate figured by hell either because abiding there they make but one house with hell in which they abide or els for that imitating the worââ¦s of the Diuell they are neuer satisfied with euill as hell neuer saith it sufficeth The new writers doe not dissent if it were worth the time to repeat manie of them Bullinger Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire Hades hell heere doth signifie not the place of punishment but those that are or were in hell whose soules were hitherto deteined in hell or such as are appointed for hell Death also signifieth those that are dead in sinne and which from a spirituall and temporall death directly passe to eternall death Aretas and Primasius are of the same opinion with vs. Chytreus Death shall restore all the bodies slaine by him and hell shall refund the soules of the wicked to be ioined to their bodies Hades in Greeke is deriued from ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã that is not to see or a place lacking light which in the 22 of Matthew is called vtter darkenesse where the wicked depriued of the sight light comfort and life of God not onely suffer perpetuall night or darknesse but great and vnspeakeable paines and torments of soule and body The Latines call it infernus because the place of the damned is thought to be somewhere in the earth beneath vs as it is said in the 16 of Numbers they descended aliue to hell and the earth couered them Thus haue we for your pleasure runne ouer all the places of the new Testament where hades is vsed and for ought we see or you say find the plaine and perpetuall vse of hades to signifie hell and not any such priuations destructions conditions and dominions of bodily death as you dreame of And as for the circumstances of the places they all concurre exactly and directly with this signification of hades which I obserue notwithstanding your Cabbinet of conceits that hades shall designe you know not what where nor when The reasons of my obseruations are manifest For where throughout the old Testament with the Septuagint hades doth alwaies import the pit for dead bodies or soules that is the graue common to good and bad or hell peculiar to the soules of the reprobate with the consequents of either and the writers of the new purposely distinguish ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã death from hades and mention death expressely that is by name or by description in euery of those places where hades is found in the new Testament saue in Christs threatning of Capernaum in which it is opposed to heauen as fardest distant from it and most repugnant to
as you doe tending all to expresse one thing but seeke a little to shew vs what matter is contained in them you should soone see what labour you haue lost in this Carrecke of words which you haue newly brought vs home Your meere and simple death which you say is nothing els but the going asunder of the soule from the body hath of necessitie thus much in it It is the separation of the soule from the body which is the cause of life in the body It is the dissolution of the person which consisteth of body and soule It is the priuation of life which endeth with the departing of the soule It is the continuing of death since possibly there is no regresse from the priuation to the habite without the mightie hand of God working aboue nature For the soule departing neuer returneth till God commaund by whose word heauen and earth were made What now after death becommeth of both parts of man is no hard matter to conceaue Salomon saith Dust meaning flesh first made of dust returneth to earth as it was and the spirit to God that gaue it by him to be disposed and adiudged to ioy or paine as pleaseth him The body then goeth to corruption the soule receaueth iudgement where it shall remaine in hell or heauen till the bodie be restored againe which shall be at the last day Descending to hades after death cannot be verified of the whole person of man but in respect of the parts Referred to the body it is as much as buried and laide in the place where it shall putrifie and returne to dust Applied to the soule it must signifie the place to which the soule is caried which I say must be vnder earth since heauen is neuer called by that name nor expressed by that word either in the Scriptures or in any other sacred or prophane writers The power and dominion of death which you so much speake of is nothing else but Gods ordinance that from death there is no returne to life till hee appoint If then there be no dominion nor kingdome of death preuailing or ruling in heauen where the soules of the Saints are without their bodies then Christ in ascending to heauen descended not to Hades Againe with what trueth can you auouch Christes soule came vnder the full power and dominion of death since death had no power ouer the bodie or soule of Christ longer or farder then he himselfe would permit and his soule free from all bands and paines of death destroied the dominion and kingdome of death to which it was alwaies superiour and neuer subiect but onely that he might shew himselfe with greater power to be conquerer of death rather in rising from the dead then in declining the force of death as if he were not able after death and in death to dissolue the dominion and power of death Wherefore your exaggerating the power and dominion of death OVER THE SOVLE of Christ and that IN HEAVEN whither you graunt Christes soule went after death is not onely a vaine and idle flourish but a poisoned and pestilent doctrine if you take not heed to it since no power of death but Christes will to shew himselfe Lord of life and death either seuered his soule from his bodie or bestowed his soule in any place after death or detained him in the condition of death but he was free to die when he would and rise from death when he would which euerteth all power and dominion of death ouer him how much soeuer in wastefull wordes you auouch the contrarie Touching the proprietie of wordes that you say is as true as the rest For Hades hath no such natiue and proper sense as you talke of but exactly and directly when it is referred to a place and not to a person signifieth a place of darknesse where nothing can be seene as with one consent Heathen and Christian writers acknowledge And the word descending after death which you must applie to the soule ascending to heauen you childishly change into the fall of the person from lise to death or inconstantly varie you know not how to Christes submission when he died or his abasement by lying held and subdued so long time in death Where againe you incurre the same sands that you did before in affirming Christ was held and subdued of death for the time which is plainly false doctrine since he would abide that time in death least any should thinke him not truely dead but was neuer vnder the power and dominion of death And as for lying held in death that phrase is strangely referred to the soule of Christ which ascended to the third heauen with more honour and ioy then it receaued in this life heere on earth What Ruffine saith is not much to be regarded if we beleeue S. Ierom neither was Ruffines faith sound nor his authoritie any thing in the Church and yet were he woorth the respecting he maketh more against you then for you For first these wordes are not vsed as an exposition of Christs descent to Hades but Ruffine saith Diuina natura in mortem per carnem descendit non vt lege mortalium detinerââ¦tur a Morte sed vt per se resurrecturus ianuas mortis aperiret The diuine nature of Christ descended to death by his flesh not to be held of death after the law of mortall men but that rising of himselfe hee might open the gates of death Where he saith the diuine nature descended to death he speaketh not of the soule but of the godhead of Christ which words by your leaue require a sober interpretation and yet in respect of the diuine glory the phrase of descending vnto death signifieth Christes submission to die not his descent after death And withall he refelleth two of your fansies first that Christ was was not held of death which you say he was Secondly that he followed not heerein the lââ¦w of mans nature which you say he did And that Christes soule descended to hell by Ruffines opinion his wordes are plaine enough in many places He applieth that to Christ which Dauid saith Thou hast brought my soule out of hell and alleaging the place of Peter In his spirit Christ preached to them which were in prison heerein saith ââ¦e it is declared quid operââ¦ââ¦gerit in Inferno What Christ did in hell So that the lesse hold you take of Ruffine the better for you and your cause he will doe more harme then good If any thinke this to be somewhat figuratiue yet is it verely so familiar and easie to all people as that other word in the Creede is he sitteth at the right hand of God yea it is farre easier When you can diue deepe into your owne fansies you thinke them as familiar to all others as to your selfe If this were so easie and readie with the simpler sort as you make it me thinkes it should not so much trouble
no doubt can be made saue of Austen onely because he sometimes repeateth the Creede without that clause which yet he confesseth to be a maine point of the Christian faith That in all places they did varie from this forme though you pretend the names of Ignatius Irenaeus Iustine Tertullian Origen c. yet they prooue no such thing These Fathers do often as learned discoursers enlarge the parts of the Creed somtimes as short comprisers of it they contract the summe thereof into fewer wordes but yet the most and most famous churches had from the beginning a briefe collection of the Christian faith deliuered to the simple people to be learned and said by heart before they could be baptized Of this doe many learned and auncient Fathers beare witnesse Duodecim Apostolorum Symbolo sides sancta concepta est In the Creed of the twelue Apostles saith Ambrose is the holy faith conceaued or comprised So Leo Catholici Symbolibreuis perfecta confessio dââ¦odecim Apostolorum totidem est signata sententijs The short and perfect confession of the Catholike Creed is sealââ¦d vp with twelue sentences of the twelue Apostles So Ierom. In the Creed of our faith and hope which being deliuered from the Apostles is not written in paper and ââ¦ke but in the tables of mens hearts after the confession of the Trinitie and vnitie of the Church all the mysteries of Christian Religion are closed vp with the resurrection of the ââ¦lesh Isidore saith the Apostles readie to depart one from another Normam prius sibi futurae praedicationis in commune constituunt appoint first in common a summe of that they would preach least sââ¦uered in diââ¦ers places they ââ¦ould propose any diuers or dissonant thing to those whom they brought to the ââ¦ith of Christ. Rabanus Maââ¦rus de Institutione clericorum li. 2. ca. 56. hath the very same wordes Neither could Tertullian whose name you vse haue truely said r Regâ⦠fidei vn a omnino est sola immobilis irreformabilis there is but one rule of faith and only that immooueable and vnchangeable vnlesse there had beene some forme of faith receaued in the Church which no man might alter or change For how could he saie there is but ONE RVLE if euery Church had a seuerall rule Or how was it immooueable or irreformable if there were no certaine wordes or parts but euerie man might alter at his will Tertullian therefore doth not repeat the words of the Creed which he varieth in euerie place where he citeth it but he pointeth to the chiefe parts thereof no where keeping the same words but in substance the same matter Against Praxeas the heretike he saith Hanc regulam ab initio Euangelij decurrisse This rule of faith hath had continuance from the beginning of the Gospell Against heretikes in generall he saith Haec regula à Christo probabitur instituta This rule shall be prooued to haue beeââ¦e appointed by Christ. And yet in these two places he keepeth not the same wordes but the same heades and as it were the same principles of faith As likewise both these differ in wordes from that rule which he cited before being omnino vna euerie where one and by no meanes alterable Irenaeus saith The Church throughout the whole world euen to the endes of the earth receaââ¦ed from the Apostles and their Disciples that faith which be beleââ¦eth in one God the Father almightie maker of heauen earth c and in Iesus Christ the Sonne of God incarnate for our saluation and in the holie spirit which preached by the Prophets the dispensation and comming of God and the birth of Christ our Lord by the Virgine his pââ¦ssion resurrection and ascension with his flesh into heauen and his comming from heauen in the glory of his Father to recapitulate all to raise vp all flesh and to giue iust iudgement in all Thâ⦠faith the Church dispââ¦rsed through the world hauing receaued faithfully keepeth and constantly teacheth and deliuereth these things as it were with one mouth For though there be different languages in the worlde ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Yet the summe aud effect of the tradition or faith deliuered is one and the same Neither doe the Churches in Germany otherwise beleeue or otherwise teach nor those in Spaine nor those in Fraunce nor those in the East nor those in Egypt nor those in Africke nor those in the middest of the world So that all the churches in the world had one and the same tradition and rule of faith and though the wordes in some places did differ yet in sense they agreed and the chiefer the churches were the more was their care to preserue this Creed not written as Ierom and others confesse but deliuered and receaued by hart euen from the Apostles and their Disciples And since the Church of Rome then one of the most famous Churches in the world kept this Creede comprised in twelue sentences according to the number of the twelue Apostles as Leo testifieth not long after Ruââ¦ines time and Ambrose said the same in effect euen in Ruââ¦ines time and other Churches likewise both East and West had retained the same from their first foundation as Irenaeus witnesseth It can not be but the Creede which we haue at this day was the verie same which the primitiue churches had and kept and these auncient Fathers that alleage the authoritie thereof bring not euerie where the exact wordes but the chiefe parts and grounds thereof as appeareth by Tertullian who saith The Rule or Creed is one and vnchangeable notwithstanding he bringeth three seueral variations therof in wordes For the clause of Christs descent to hell I haue said before it was retained in many places though it wanted in the church of Rome and some other churches of the East and no doubt the Church of Rome and the rest conceaued no lesââ¦e by Christes resurrection from the dead but that he rose conquerer of death and hell as the prophet foretold he should in saying O death I will be thy death ô hell I will bee thy destruction as Christ professed he did when he said I haue the keies of death and hell and as the great and generall Councels of Ephesus Chalcedon and Constantinople did expound that Article of the Creed Christ rose the third day ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã hauing ââ¦irst spoiled hell And vpon this resolution of these generall Councels and not as you dreame vpon the opinion of Limbus preuailing the Churches that wanted that Article which others had receaued it into their Creed as contained there before in force and effect but now they concurred in one consent of faith and wordes which before they did not Our third reason is if there be no certaine benefit to the godly by Christs going to hell then doubtlesse he went not thither But there is no certaine benefit to the godly by Christs going to hell Therefore
Ephesus which the Councels of Chalcedon and Constantinople doe fully approoue Now what Cyrill meant by spoiling hades appeareth in these words Our Lord Iesus saith Cyrill ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã hauing spoyled death and loosed the number of soules that were detained in the dââ¦nnes there rose the third day We must not say that the Deitie of the onely begotten returned from the denns vnder the earth but his soule descended to hades and vsing his diuine power and authoritie ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã shewed it selfe to the soules there and said to them in bands come forth and to them in darkenesse receiue light This Cyrill tooke from Athanasius whom he much followed and often cited Those wretches the diuels did not know that the death of Christ should giue vs immortalitie and his descent to Hades should procure our ascent to heauen For the Lord rose the third day from the dead ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã hauing spoiled Hades hel troden the enemie vnder foote dissolued death broken the chaines of sin with which we were tyed and freed vs that were bound saying arise let vs goe hence Being therefore freed from the bondage of the diuell let vs acknowledge our redeemer and glorifie the Father c. So elswhere What neede had Christ that was God of the crosse of the graue of hell to which things we were subiect but that in them he sought vs quickning vs in this manner agreeable to vs For if the Lord had not bene made man wee had neuer risen from the dead as redeemed from our sinnes but had remained dead vnder the earth neither had we beene exalted to heauen but had laine still ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã in hell For vs therefore and for our sakes it is sayd God exalted him and gaue him the dominion of heauen earth and hell By which places as by infinite others in Athanasius it is euident that Christ conquered and spoiled hell and Satan for vs and deliuered vs thence aswell as those that were formerly deceased to whom as to vs hell had a chalenge till the Sauiour of the world freed both them and vs thence And this is the true meaning of those prouinciall and generall Councels which say Christ rose the third day hauing first spoiled hell The same I affirme of that Allegory in Luke which sheweth Christs ouercomming binding and spoiling of Satan indeed but not by his locall being in hell Christ expressely applieth it to his dispossessing of Diuels out of mens bodies I did not alleage this parable to prooue Christs going to hell in soule after death but to shew what parts Christs conquest ouer hell and Satan must haue to wit that he must subdue bind and spoile Satan before his conquest ouer Satan could be perfect Other places of Scripture applied these parts to Christs rising from the dead and spoiling the kingdome of Satan for this parable it did suffice that these things heere mentioned must be fully performed by Christ before he did fully conquere Satan Now that these things were throughly performed by Christ whiles he liued on earth is repugnant to the Scriptures For so Christ should neuer haue died since death was a part of Satans power which Christ was to spoile It is therefore certaine that Christs ouermastering of Satan began here on earth when he cast him out from such as were possessed but Christs conquest ouer Satan had not his sull and complete higth no not in his owne person till he rose from the dead and ascended to heauen leading captiuity captiue That therefore it began before Christs death I doe not denie but that it was not finished till his resurrection and ascension the Scriptures auouch Christ saith Origen hauing bound the strong man and by his crosse conquered him went euen to his house to the house of death and into hell and thence tooke his goods that is the soules which he possessed And this was that which he spake by a Parable in the Gospell saying Who can enter a strong mans house and spoile his goods except he first bind the strong man So Ierom. The strong man was bound and tied in hell and troden vnder the Lords foote and the Tyrants howsen being spoiled captiuity was led captiue And Zanchius The Apostle to the Ephesians the 4. where he speaketh of Christs triumph and saith he led captiuity captiue that is he led the Diuel captiue and triumphed ouer him doth not there say this triumph was made on the crosse but then performed that is perfected when Christ ascended to heauen Christ then obteined it on the Crosse but performed it afterwards Of euill spirits subdued and spoiled the Sonne of God triumphed Whither pertaineth that parable of Christs when a strong man keepeth his house his goods are in peace but when a stronger then he commeth vpon him he taketh his spoiles from him Remember I pray how God shewed his displeasure against your wresting of his word by that strange terrour that happened euen then when you were descended intâ⦠he depth of this vncouth doctrine at Paules Crosse. Indeed it may be that you and such others were in a strange terror at that time otherwise there was no cause nor harme but the breakeing of an old rotten forme which men desirous to heare had ouer loaden and so where they stood halfe a yard aboue ground before they were then faine to stand on their feet But Sir by what authoââ¦ity doe you take vpon you to interprete Gods will by the cracking of an old stoole Are you of late become a Southsaier that you professe to declare Gods meaning by the breaking of an old borde in sunder What say you then to those Coronations of Princes and other assemblies where many haue been slaine What say you to S. Pauls Sermon where Eutychus falling downe from a third lââ¦ft was taken vp dead Will you say his doctrine was vncouth because the hearers were a while troubled with that accident had there any thing indeed fallen out as God be thanked there did nothing you would haue plaied the false Prophet apace to presume of Gods purpose when by your owne foolish feare vpon the cracking of an old forme you proudely and prophanely take vpon you to pronounce of Gods pleasure Where you charge me in the end arrogantly and absurdly to falsisie the Synod of this Realme it is but what your selfe doth in effect I said our Synod corrected King Edwards Synod You acknowledge and professe that in the later words of that former Synod now left out are three things that cannot be iustified by the Scriptures If a man would hire you you cannot leaue this outfacing and falsifying no not when you goe about to cleare your selfe of it which whether it be absurd or arrogant I leaue to the Reader Our Synod you said corrected King Edwards Synod Said you no more did you not lustily conclude Therefore our Synod
no death of the Soule 519 The Fathers professe true fire to be in hell 46 The Fathers plainly remoue the death of Christs Soule from the worke of our redemption 330. 331 All Christs Feares were holy 215 Feare and sorrow in Christ were sufferings for sinne 345 Christs Feare in the Garden was religious 371 Christs ââ¦eare and sorrow were painfull but religious sufferings 372 What Feare and sorrow Christ was to yeelde vnto God when he offered the ransome of our sinnes 374 What things Christ might iustly and greatly feare in the Garden 380 ââ¦eare may be intellectââ¦ue or sensitiue 383 Christ might feare many thinges besides hell paines 385 Why Christ feared more then Mattyrs doe 395 Christ might iustly feare the pââ¦wer of Gods wrath 380 Figuratiuely the Soule may be said to be crucified 80 Fire in hell is not allegoââ¦icall 40. 41. 42. 43 The Fathers professe tââ¦ue fire to be in hell 46 It is possible that brimstone may bee mingled with fire in hell 47 The same fire punishââ¦th the wiââ¦ked both bââ¦fore and after iudgeââ¦ent 55 What fire did signifie in sacrifices 112. 113 What fire might note in the holocaust 116 How Christ was Forsaken on the crosse 409 How farre and wherein Christ was Forsaken are the things questioned 414 What forsaking could not be found in Christ 414 We were forsaken of God till Christ ãâã vs by his death 417 Christ neuer forsaken of hope and comfoââ¦t ââ¦7 God shewed by the present euent that he had not forsaken hââ¦s sââ¦nne 419 We stââ¦iue not for the word but for the sense and maner of forsaââ¦ing 431 G GEhenna was not vsed in speaking to the Gentiles 618 God can doc more then he will 23 Gods loue to Christ appeared euen in his death 20. 21 Gods purpose in the death and crosse of Christ. 154. 155. 156 God vseth meanes and instruments in punishing 33 God tempereth loue and iustice in punishing his elect 147. 255 God worketh good by euill 254 God is iust as well in forgiuing as in punishing sin 262 God was able to saue vs otherwise then by Christs death 287 God was the author of all Christes afflictions but not with his immediate hand 298. 299 God vieth his creatures to performe his iudgements 302 God is the principal agent in all our sufferings but not with his immediate hand 302 Gods hand worketh whatsoeuer meanes he vseth 300. 301 Gods loue to his sonne ouerswaied his hatred to our sinnes 268 Gods iustice in subiecting Satans kingdome to Christs manhood 230 The Gospell differeth much from the Law 264 How the Graue is aâ⦠habitation for the godly 575 God would not haue our flesh as yet freed from the Graue 670 Christ was not Guilââ¦y of our sinne though he took our punishment on him 162. 163 The whole man is guilty of all sinne 185. 186 187. 208 Guilty stretcheth as well to the punishment as to the fact .266 A mediator not guilty of the sinne for which he doth mediate 276 H HAdes what it signifiââ¦th with the Greeke Fathers 589. 590. 591. 592. 593 Hades what it is with Chrylostom 589 Athââ¦nasius taketh Hades for hell 599. 6ââ¦0 Hades in Athanasius Creed is not the graue 659 Hades with Ignatius is not the graue 657 The soules of the godly are not in Hadââ¦s 602 Hades is a place of darkenesse 609 How Hades is vsed in the new Testament 629 Hades with new writers is the graue or hell 609. 610 611 Hades is a place vnder the earth 613 Hades an vnseene and darke place 618 Hades in the Creed must signifie hell 649 Hades is not the ignominie of the graue 651 Hades was first the name of the diuell 615 Hades is hell or the diuell in the new Testament 619 Hades is hell in the new Testament without any figure 621 Why Hades signifieth hell in the new Tââ¦stament 647 Hades with the Pagans was the place not the state of the dead 616 The whole created world is Hades with the Defââ¦nder 615 Hades in effect is nothing but death with the Defender 624 How ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and Inferi concurre in signification 579 How the Defender wauereth about Hades 619 How Hades is vsed in the Reuelation 642 How Hades shall be cast into hell fire 644 S. Luke maketh Hades a place of torment 621 What Hades Matth. 11. 23. is threatned to Capernaum 630 Many Greeke copies haue Act. 2. 24. the sorrowes of Hades 625 Hades in the Scriptures opposed to the highest heauens 635 Christ loosed the sorrowes of Hades 625. 626 The wall of Hades not broken but by Christ. 657 Hades hath not all the dead 646 Hades followeth after death 643 Hades taken for the rulers or persons in hell 647 The soules of the godly are not in Hades 602 Hanging on a tree was not the whole curse of the law 236 Hanging on the crosse a cursed kind of death 237 Innocents and penitents not truely accursed though Hanged on a tree 238 Hard speeches should rather bee qualified then strained to the highest 271 All affections make sensible alterations in the Heart 1ââ¦3 194 The heart is the seat of mans affections and actions 2ââ¦3 The Hââ¦art suggesting euill sinneth 311 The ioyes of Heauen are proper to the place 455 456 The sight of God in this life ââ¦uch differeth from the sight of his face in Heauen 456 The Saints of God had some sight of God in earth but not comparable to that in Heauen 460 The soules ââ¦re not yet in the same height of Heauen where Christ is 5ââ¦0 541 How many Heauens the Scriptures make 541. 542 The graces of God in earth are not the ioyes of Heauen 461 Why the Heauens are compared with hell in the Scriptures 634 God is not the immediate and principall inââ¦cter of Hell paines 2â⦠29 The sentence of the iudge containeth the essence of Hell paines 35 Christ suffered not the substance of hell paines 36 Reiection from Gods kingdome essentiall to Hell paines 37. 38 Malediction essentiall to Hell paines 38 Hell fire is not allegoricall 40. 41 42. 43. 49. 53 54 I neuer said Hell fire was materiall 44 The Fathers professe tââ¦ue fire to be in Hell 46 51. 52 So doe later Diuines 49. 50 It is possible that brimstone may be mingled with fire in Hell 47 Chaines there are in Hell though not of iron ââ¦7 Whether there be true fire in hel before the iudgment is not the question 54 Christ suffered not the essentiall part of hell paines 56 Hell paines not the cause of Christs agonie 58. 59 The sharpnesse of Hell paines 60 The foretast of iudgement in Hell is neither full finall perpetuall nor genââ¦rall 210 Positiue punishment now in Hell 214 The suffering of Hell paines no way necessarie to our saluation 220 Men may feare but not feele the truâ⦠paines of hel in this life 320 The paines of hell are no naturall affections 383 Christ might feele somewhat extraordinarie yet not the paines of hell 391 The vehemencie of hell
paines passe the patience of Men and Angels 450 The true paines of hell are not felt in this life 451. 462 The true paines of hell are proper to the place 454. 455 The true paines of hell are aboue and against nature 464. 465 We must not reââ¦oyce in suffering helâ⦠paines 441 A broken spirit is not the paines of hell 516 Christ brought vs backe from hell 607 No place for soules vnder earth but hell 614 It is not against the faith that Christs Soul should conquere hell 622 Christ must rise conquerer of death and hell 628 The Iewes were promised their Messias should conquere hell 628 All the names of hell prooue it to be in the earth 632 Hell is in the earth yet some diuels in the aire 633 Why the heauens are compared with hell in the Scriptures 634 Our victorie against death and hell not full till the last day 637 638 Christ ââ¦th the keyes of death and of hell 642. 643 Nothing but persons cast into hell 645 The Defender maketh three hells in steede of one 645 Christs spoââ¦ling of hell precedent to his resurrection 673 Hereticke alwaies vrged the same places that the Defender doth 425 What the Holocaust did signifie 111. 112 What ââ¦ire might note in the Holocaust 116 I. IMmediate What suffering is Immediate from â⦠God 27. 32 God is not the Immediate and principall inflicter of hââ¦ll paines 2â⦠29 Christs soule was not tormented with Gods Immed aââ¦e hand 34 God can punish the soule by meanes without his Immediate hand 219 God the author of all Christs afflictions but not by his Immediate hand 298. 299 God is the principall agent in all our sufferings but not with his Immediate hand 302 How ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and Infers concurre in signification  What place Tertullia taketh Inferi to be 585. 586 Inferi are places and persons vnder the earth 5ââ¦7 Inferi are not now the place and state of good and bad deceased 588 Saint Austin taketh Inferi for hel and not for the state of the dead 198. 590 The soules of the godly are not in Inferi 602 Infernus with the latin fathers is more theÌ death 603 Inferi not found in the Scriptures in any good sense ââ¦04 Inferi no place for the godly after Christes resurrection 605 Infernus is not the place nor state of all soules deceased 606 Christ did not suffer paines truely Infinite 161 Christs Infirmitie was voluntarie 407 Christs Infirmitie was power 416 How all the kingdomes of the earth might bee shewed vnto Christ in an Instant 308. 309 Irenaeus did write in Greeke 584 Where Irenaeus thought Christs soule was after death 583. 584 The rule of Iustice suffereth the stronger to beare the burden of the weaker 292 Gods Iustice in subiecting Satans kingdome to Christs manhood 230 Gods Iustice might punish Christs bodie but not Christs soule with death 337 The Iudgement of God to which Christ submitted himselfe for our redemption 348 Gods Iudgement for our redemption concerneth Christ men and Angels 348 In this Iudgement God required of Christ satisfaction for the sinnes of men 349 K K ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã what it signifieth 625 Christ hath the Keyes of death and of hell 642. 643 Kindred goeth by blood and not by the soule 509 Our naturall Knowledge commeth by sense 196 The meanes of mans Knowledge 199 Our loue and ioy doe follow our Knowledge 462 L LEo maketh Christs words on the Crosse an instruction no lamentation 432 How Christ was like vs in all things sinne excepted 86. 324 Christ not like vs in any sinfull affections 322 How Christ was like vs in his sufferings 323 Christ not like vs in any want of grace or touch of sinne 326 To what lower parts of the earth Christ descended 554 What is ment by the lower parts of the earth 555 The lower earth is all one with the lower Sheol 556 The lower Shcol signifieth hell and not the graue 557. 558 The lower earth Ezechiel vseth for hell 561 The lower parts of the earth are hell 562 M MArtyrs and Malefactors haue a stronge conflict with death though we perceaue it noâ⦠389 The glory of Martyrs were not great if their paines were not great 390. 391 Martyrs find ioy and ease after death but not in death 301 Why Christ feared more then Martyrs doe 395 Christs senses might not be ouerwhelmed as Martyrs are 396 The manner of breathing out Christs Soule was miraculous 87. 88. 89. 90 The Fathers obserue that it was miraculous 91. 92. 93 So doe the new writers 94 Moses praier for the people examined 359 The purpose of Moses praier for the people 360 How Moses in his praier is excused from sin 365 Moses face did shine when he know it not 461 Moses was not amazed in his prayer 368 N THe name of nature in the graces of God and ioyes of heauen is a vaine distinction 461 There was no necessitie in our redemption but Christs will power and libertie 283 284. 285 The Fathers disclaime all necessitie in the death of Christ. 285 No necessitie in the death of Christ 286 Christs feare and agony came not from necessitie but from his humilitie and feruencie 339 Neither necessitie nor infirmitie could oppresse Christ. 405 New wââ¦iters teach the sufferings of Christs Soule without the paines of hell 536 New writers teach Christs descent to hell 546. 547 New writers obserue Christs manner of dying to haue beene miraculous 94 O OLeuians coniectures for his sense of Christs descent to Hades are but weake 631 P. PAines of this life Christ did beare but not of hell 217. 218 Christes Paines might be vnknowen and yet not the paines of hell 161 In outward Paines men perceiue and acknowledge Gods hand vpon them 170 Paines proper to the soule are not by and by the paines of hell 214 All Christs Paines were holy 215 More required in our ransome then onely Paines 216 We cannot iudge of other mens Paines 328. Excessiââ¦e Paine bringeth death 447 How Christ was in Paradise the day of his death 549 The Parable of the strong man bound and spoyled ââ¦74 Christes Patience was greater then any mans whatsoeuer his paines were 394 How Christs patience exceeded all mens 395 Christs patience at the highest before he complained on the crosse 418 Saââ¦nt Paul 1. Cor. 15. keepeth the true sense of the Prophet Osee. 641 Pauls wish for the Iewes considered 360 The time was when Paul so wished Ibid. If Paul spake of the time when he wrote his words were conditionall Ibid. What Paul meant when he wished to be separated from Christ for the Iewes 361. 362 How the Grecians expound Pauls words 361 How Paul in his wish was excused from sinne 365 Paul wished if it were possible or lawfull 366 Paul was not amazed in his prayer 368 The true sense of Pauls and Moses words Rom. 10. 567 568. Positiue punishment now in hell 214 No Positiue thing common to good and bad after death 581 Christ suffered not
recenseri insernum siue gehennam mortem peccatum legem In the meane while thou must see our enemies heere numbred in order hell or gehenna death sinne and the law Christ hath gotten the victory ouer all these and the fruit of that victory redoundeth to vs. Bullinger The Apostle declareth that the victory ouer sinne death and hell is gotten by the might and merits not of the saints but of Christ to whom the saints must yeeld all glory praise and thanks And this explanation hath very excellent degrees First â⦠hell to wit the excrlasting punishment whereby the dead are condemned to the second death the second is sinne which is the force of death and hell For by sinne came death The third is the law the strength of sinne The law being then taken away the force of sinne decaieth sinne being abolished the power of death ceaseth death being disarmed hell is ouerthrowen Hyperius If death shall then haue no more rule it followeth that neither hell shall preuaile against the godly For this must be vnderstood of them since the wicked shall not be deliuered from the power of hell In these words ô death where is thy sting ô hell where is thy victory either God as conquerer or the saints as giuing the praise of the conquest to God in a sort reproch death and hell with the losse of their power and strength And very aptly is death put first and then hell For men die before they be cast into hell in which the wicked tast the second or eternall death Moe might be brought but with wise men there can be no question that the Saints at the last day being then fully freed from all their enemies may giue thanks to God for the victory purchased by Christ against them all hell and Satan not excepted Also we are to note that the Apostle heere plainely alludeth to that of Hoseah O Sheol o kingdome of death I wil be thy destruction not ô hell The Prophet speaketh this to comfort Israel in their captiuity against their continuall destruction and raizings out of this world You will soone brest other men that will beard the Apostle in this matter so boldly as you doe Indeed you and some others thinke it a glory to take part with the Iewes contradicting all that the Euangelists Apostles alleage out of the law and the Prophets touching Christ and his kingdome and you vouchsafe to yeeld to the holy Ghost speaking in them no more skill or vnderstanding of the old Testament but to allude to it and as it were to play with it when the true literall sense of most places as you thinke is farre from that which they intend But this Iudaizing whiles you would seeme more then others to smatch of a little Hebrew I for my part detest and professe to the world I take that euery where to be the true and direct meaning of Moses and the Prophets which Christ and his Apostles collect from their words And therefore Ierom saith of this very place as I say of all others That which the Apostle referreth to the resurrection of the Lord nos aliter interpretari nec possumui nec audemus we neither can nor dare interprete otherwise Yea so well learned you are in the circumstances of the Prophets speach that you pronounce The Prophet speaketh this to comfort Israel in their captiuity shewing that now the Lord would stay his iudgment that way and death should now destroy them no more Whereas Israel was then in no captiuity as appeareth by the 16 verse of the same chapter Samaria shal be desolute And God had no meaning to tell the people he would now stay his hand and they should be destroied no more because in the two next verses he threatneth They should be spoiled dried and desolate they should fall by the sword their infants should be dashed in pieces and their women with child should be ripâ⦠Wherefore except you will haue the holy Ghost to speake contradictions as your manner is you must acknowledge that amidst the fearefull troubles destructions and desolations then and afore denounced by the Prophet against the whole kingdome of Israel God doth comfort his elect amongst them that whatsoeuer became of their bodies in this affliction approching he had his time when he would vtterly destroy the power of all their enemies not onely freeing them by death from tyrants and persecutors but sauing them from death and hell by his annointed Messias who should be a death to death and a destruction to hell And as this was the greatest comfort and onely hope that Gods children in their miseries could expect or desire so the Apostle keepeth right the Prophets meaning and sheweth the time when all this shal be performed that is when all teares shal be wiped from the eies of Gods elect and all their enemies sinne death and hell troden vnder their feete In this comfort and promise as hell was the chiefest enemy so of all others that must be conteined within the limits of Gods assurance and their deliuerance In vaine are all other promises of grace whiles that enemy standeth vnuanquished And therefore as we most needed so God most promised and Christ most performed the destruction of hell aboue and afore the death of the body which you so much talke of and from which you giue to the reprobate a resurrection as well as to the godly which is but a cold comfort to him that duely considereth it Next we come to the Reuelation First I haue the keyes of Hades that is of destruction or of the kingdome of death and of death Or we may take them as two words for oâ⦠and the same thing That is both of them for death What shew of reason haue you to bring in here Christs power ouer the damned soules in hell because there is mention else where of the key of hell therefore the key of Hades here is the same What colour of reason is there in this Euen so much as you can not resist For if it be certaine which the Scripture confirmeth that Christ hath the keyes of both that is as well of hell as of death and gate them both by submitting himselfe to death And Hades in the new Testament is taken for hell as hitherto we haue seene and euen with Saint Iohn the writer of this Reuelation it is a different thing from death what can Hades be here but hell That Christ by his obedience vnto death had all power in heauen and earth and hell giuen him the Apostle is very plaine Christ became obedient to the death euen the death of the Crosse. Wherefore or for which cause God highly exalted him and gaue him a Name aboue euery name that at the name of Iesus euery knee of those in heauen on earth and vnder the earth should bow and euery tongue confesse that Iesus is the Lord. As he himselfe also witnessed when he said