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A41009 Kātabaptistai kataptüstoi The dippers dipt, or, The anabaptists duck'd and plung'd over head and eares, at a disputation in Southwark : together with a large and full discourse of their 1. Original. 2. Severall sorts. 3. Peculiar errours. 4. High attempts against the state. 5. Capitall punishments, with an application to these times / by Daniel Featley ... Featley, Daniel, 1582-1645. 1645 (1645) Wing F586; ESTC R212388 182,961 216

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76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83. and Ezra 9. 5 6. I fell upon my knees and spread out my hands unto my Lord my God and said O my God I am ashamed and blush to lift up my face to thee my God for our iniquities are increased over our head and our trespasse is grown up unto the heavens c. usque ad finem capitis And Psal. 92. the title is A Psalme or song for the Sabbath day and Psal. 102. the title is A prayer for the afflicted when he is overwhelmed and poureth out his complaint before the Lord. From Psalme 119. to 134. all the Psalmes are intituled Songs of degrees they are fifteen in number answerable to the fifteen steps between the peoples court and the priests and they were so called as the Iewish Rabbines observe because these fifteen Psalmes were sung in order as the priests went up those fifteen steps Hereunto we may adde a passage out of the Samaritan Chronicle Postea mortuus est Adrianus cujus Deus non misereatur c. The high Priest living in that time in the year of the world 4713. by their accompt took away that most excellent book that was in their ha●ds even since the calm and peaceable times of the Israelites which contained those songs and prayers which were ever used with their sacrifices for before every of their severall sacrifices they had their severall songs still used in those times of peace all which accurately written were transmitted to the subsequent generations from the time of the Legat MOSES untill this day by the ministerie of the high Priest Long after Moses in the dayes of Ezra set forms of prayer were prescribed and used in the Synagogue of the Iews whereof Maimonides yeelds this reason Ut preces indisertorum non minùs perfectae forent quam preces viri utcunque linguae disertae Vid. Selden Comment in Eutychium Patriarcham ANABAP ANSWER It cannot be denied that in the time of the old Testament set and stinted forms were used but the case is different with us for under the Gospel we have more light of knowledge and many speciall gifts of the Spirit which they had not they were in their non-age and as children used these forms like festra's which they that can read perfectly cast away or as those that learn to swim make use of bladders which they put from under them after they can swim of themselves securely REPLY First though it must be confessed on all hands that we have under the Gospel more clearer light of knowledge then the Iews under the Law for as S. Ambrose saith excellently Umbra in lege imago in evangelio veritas in coelo and though we excell them in other gifts of the Spirit yet they wanted not the Spirit of supplication mentioned Zach. 12. 10. I will poure upon the house of David and the inhabitants of Ierusalem the Spirit of grace a●d supplication it was not therefore for want of the Spirit that they used set forms Secondly let it be noted that Moses and David and other prophets both prescribed and used set forms who no doubt could and did pray by the Spirit in a more excellent manner then any now adayes can yet they commended and used set forms Thirdly if this had been an errour in the Iewish Liturgie or publique Service that they used stinted forms undoubtedly Christ or his Apostles would have somewhere reproved this as they doe other errours that crept into that Church but they are so farre from reproving this practice that they rather confirm and establish it as you shall see in the next argument ARGUMENT III. Whatsoever Christ commanded and the Apostles practised ought to be retained among Christians But we have Christs command and the Apostles practice for set and stinted forms of prayer Ergo they ought to be retained in the Christian church Of the major or first proposition it is impietie to doubt for there was a Voyce heard from heaven saying heare him he cannot mis-lead us for he is the Way nor deceive us for he is the Truth and if Pythagoras schollars bare such a reverent respect to their master that his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ipse dixit sealed up their lips and stopt their mouthes from contradicting what his bare word had ratified how much more reverence owe we to the words of our Lord and Master who hath not only the words of eternall life but is himself the word of God or rather God the word The assumption is proved out of Math. 6. 9. After this manner therefore pray ye Luke 11. 2. When ye pray say c. Luke 15. 18 19. I will rise and goe to my father and say Father I have sinned against heaven and in thy sight and am no more worthy to be called thy sonne Math. 26. 39. O my father if it be possible let this cup passe from me and v. 44. and he left them and went away again and prayed the third time saying the same words And Io. 17. 11. 21. that they all may be one as thou father art in me and I in thee And Rom. 16. 24. 1 Cor. 16. 23. 2 Cor. 13 14. Gal. 6. 18. Eph. 6. 24. Phil. 4. 23. 1 Thess. 5. 28. 2 Thess. 3. 18. Heb. 13. 25. Revel 22. 21. The grace of our Lord Iesus Christ be with you all Apoc. 4. 11. Thou art worthy O Lord to receive glory and honour and c. 5. 12. worthy is the Lamb to receive power c. c. 15. 3. they sang the song of Moses the servant of God viz. the song set down Exod. 15. 1. In these passages of the new Testament we have set forms of prayer somewhere commanded somewhere commended somewhere used somewhere reiterated and all inspired by the holy Ghost and therefore certainly the use of them can be no quenching of that holy Spirit whom we feel to inflame our hearts in the rehearsing these sacred forms ANABAP ANSWER The Lords prayer is expounded in Scripture tanquam norma non tanquam forma orationis as a pattern of all prayer not as a prayer it is scripture and therefore not to be used as a prayer in prayer we are to expresse our wants in particular and the graces which we desire in this prayer are only propounded in generall REPLY First Christ delivered the Lords Prayer at two severall times and upon speciall occasions in the former he commands it as a pattern and rule of all prayer saying pray after this manner but in the latter he enjoyneth it to be used a a prayer in the former he saith pray thus in the latter pray this or when ye pray say our Father and surely not only all the ancient fathers who have commented upon this prayer as Tertullian Cyprian Cyrill of Ierusalem Ambrose Gregorie Nyssen Ierome Chrysostome Augustine Cassian Petrus Crysologus Bernard Innocentius Theophylact Euthymius Bede c. but
nullifie all baptisme administred either by Romish priests or orthodox Protestants but condemn baptizing of children simply which neither the first nor the second sort of Anabaptists did for both the Novatians and Donatists yea and Pelagians too though they denied originall sin yet they all allowed and practised the baptisme of infants The author of this third and worst sect of Anabaptists was as some say Muncerus as others Balthasar Pacimontanus against whom Zuinglius wrote as others Carolstadius but I subscribe to Melancthou who lived in those times and could not but be very well acquainted with those passages which fell out near the place of his residence And he affirmeth as I said before that Nicholas Stock was the first that broached Anabaptisme in Germany This Stock affirmed that God spake to him by an Angel and revealed his will to him in dreams promising him the place of the Angel Gabriel in this mans school was Tho. Muncer bred who kept such a racket in Alset a citie in the borders of Thuringia and after him Iohn Leydan and Cniperdoling who in the year 1532. infected and infested also Munster wherein though they consul'd it and king'd it for a time yet in the end were taken pinched with fiery pincers and after stab'd to the heart with daggers and their bodies shut up in iron cages which were hung upon the highest steeple in Munster where they dance in the aire And as Garnet the Jesuit the great patron and practiser of equivocation in his life time is said to have equivocated in some sort after his death for two faces of his were shewed by Roman catholikes the one upon an iron pole the other upon a straw so these ring-leaders of the Anabaptists who stickled so much for re-baptizing in their life time have been a thousand times re-baptized since their death by every shower of rain beating through their iron lettice CHAP. II. Of the errors of the Anabaptists both common to other sects and those which are peculiarly their own THose who have raked into this mud find severall beds of these slippery Eels or rather indeed Lampreys for they have all of them some string or other of poyson in them Their errours they rank into three kinds First ecclesiasticall or in point of the church or matter of faith Secondly politicall or in point of policie or matter of state Thirdly oeconomicall or in point of family-government First their ecclesiasticall errors such as peculiarly concern the doctrine or discipline of the church are First That Christ took not flesh from the Virgin Mary but that he past through her as the Sun beams do through glasse or rain through a spout Secondly That there is no originall sin Thirdly That children ought not to be baptized Fourthly That such as have been baptized in their infancie ought to be re-baptized when they come to years of discretion Fifthly That Lay-people may preach and administer the sacraments Gastius p. 35. Anabaptistae sumunt sibi omnes praedicandi officium Sixthly That men have free will not only in naturall and morall but also in spirituall actions Seventhly That absolution and the church-peace ought to be denied to such who are fallen into any grievous sin yea though they repent of it Eighthly That Luthers doctrine is worse then the Popes Secondly their politicall errors or in matter of state are First That the people may depose their magistrates and chief rulers Sleid. ib. licere plebets in magistratum arnia sumere Secondly That a Christian with a good conscience may not take upon him or bear the office of a magistrate or keep any court of Justice Thirdly That none may administer an oath to another Fourthly That no malefactors ought to be put to death Thirdly their oeconomicall errors are First That no man hath a proprietie in his goods but that all things ought to be held in common Secondly That it is lawfull to have more wives then one at once Thirdly That a man may put away his wife if she differ from him in point of religion and be not of their sect These indeed are the most of their known errors yet all the Lampreys are not found in these beds there be some straglers and to the end that none of them escape we will put them all as it were into two great weels All the errors of the Anabaptists are of two sorts First such as they hold in common with other heretiks Secondly such as are peculiar to their sect First concerning the common errors we are to note that as the wild beasts in Africa meeting at the rivers to drinke engender one with another and beget strange monsters whence is that proverb semper Africa altquid apportat novi so diverse kinds of heretiks and schismatiks meeting together at unlawfull conventicles and having conference one with the other have mingled their opinions and brought forth mungrell heresies Epiphanius instanceth in diverse ancient heretiks but I shall only at this time in those heretikes I am now to deale with viz. the last and worst sort of Anabaptists these joyn their opinions and if I may so speake engender First with the Millenaties and their joynt issue is That Christ before the day of judgement shall come downe from heaven and reigne with the saints upon earth a thousand yeares in which time they shall destroy all the wicked binding their Kings in chaines and their Nobles in links of iron Secondly with the Catharists or Novatians and their joynt issue is That they are a communion of all saints and that none that hath fallen into idolatrie or any other grievous crime for which he hath beene excommunicated ought to be restored upon his repentance to the church Thirdly with the Donatists and their joynt issue is That in the true church there are no scandals or lewd and vitious livers that the church of Christ is confined to their sect that we ought to separate from all assemblies of Christians wherein there are any abuses or scandals yea though the church alloweth them not but seeketh to reforme them that all such as have been baptized by any other then those of their sect ought to be rebaptized Fourthly with the Priscillianists and their joynt issue is That Christ took not flesh from the Virgin Mary Fifthly with the Adamites and their joynt issue is That clothes were appointed not so much to cover shame as to discover sinne and that therefore they being such as Adam was in his innocencie ought to goe naked and not to be ashamed Sixtly with the Apostolici that is a sort of hereticks who perversely and preposterously imitated the first Christians in the dayes of the Apostles and their joynt issue is That none ought to possesse any lands or goods to himself but that they ought to have all things in common This was
by divine inspiration as the originals are EXCEPT V. Fifthly they except that there are vain repetitions in the Service-book But this exception is vain not the repetitions for First that is not vain which serves to a holy end and purpose the more to stirre up our affections or imprint such prayers deeper in our memories as the reflecting of the sunne-beams is not in vain which encreaseth the heat thereof and the striking again and again upon the same nail is not in vain because it driveth it in deeper and more fasteneth it Secondly the holy scripture warranteth such repetitions for in the 136. Psalme these words for his mercie endureth for ever are 27. times repeated in the old translation but 26. according to the new and in Psalme 119. the word of God or some synonymon thereunto is repeated 175. Christ himselfe repeated that prayer Father let this cup passe from me three times Thirdly there is no prayer appointed to be often repeated save the Lords prayer which Christ himself twice delivered upon severall occasions and not only the church of England but all churches in their Liturgies have thought fit to rehearse often for it is as the salt which seasoneth all our spirituall sacrifices as the amber which sweeteneth all our dishes as the Elixar which turneth all our leaden conceptions into pure gold In the confession of our sinnes we are defective as also in the profession of our faith and in our prayers for our selvs and others and in our forms of consecration of the sacrament and therefore in all these places of the Service-book the Lords prayer is added to supply the defects thereof EXCEPT VI. Sixthly they except against the shortnesse of our prayers they say they are rather snips of prayers then prayers and that in them there may be some sparks of pietie but no flame of devotion But this exception is neither true nor just First not true for the prayers appoynted by the church to be read at solemn fasts as likewise the prayers for the whole estate of Christs church and the Morning and Evening prayers for private Families and for sundrie other purposes printed after the Psames are of as large a size as any used in any reformed churches Secondly it is not just our prayers are thereby no way disparaged for the shortest of them come nearer to the pattern of perfect prayer drawn by our Saviour then their longest In all the Bible there is no example of any verie long prayer on the contrarie Solomon commandeth us when we petition the Almightie to use few words and Christ himselfe more then once taxeth the vanitie and hypocrisie of such as mete out their devotion by the ell when you pray use not vain repetitions as the heathen do for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking And Mat. 23. 14. Wo be unto you Scribes and Pharisees hypocrites for ye devoure widdows houses and for a pretence make long prayers In direct opposition to such he framed a prayer to himself a verie short one but most pithie and perfect and it is after this fair copie that the learned Scribes who penned our English devotions wrote well knowing that God is not wooed with varietie of of phrases but rather with sighs and groans not with enlarged thoughts but with enflamed affections as Saint Austine teacheth us The hotest spring sends forth their waters by ebullitions oratio brevis penetrat coelum In a long prayer the affection slaketh cooleth and dieth before he that prayeth is speechlesse and the vulgar sort of people are verie little benefited by these prolix and long-winded rather discourses or expostulations or exaggerations then prayers neither can they for so great a space of time hold their attention to the Preacher neither can their memorie carrie away a quarter of what is powred out before them whereas short prayers often repeated in their ears leave an impression behind them and they get them with many most profitable texts of Scripture often rehearsed in the Book of Common-Prayer by heart and if you take away from them these short cuts and shreddings of devotion as they please to nick-name them such as can neither read nor write will have nothing left to mend their wedding garment Howsoever we want not the approbation herein of the ancient churches especially the famous churches of Aegypt who had many prayers but verie short as if they were darts thrown with a suddain quicknesse lest that vigilant and erect attention of the mind which in prayer in most necessarie should be wasted or dulled through the continuance of over-long prayers EXCEPT VII Seventhly they except against the interchangeable varietie of our Service-Book whereas they continue a long prayer themselvs without any interruption the people only sealing all in the end with their Amen But according to the Rubrick and practice of the church in most congregations in reading the Psalmes and other parts of the Service the Minister and people answer one another by course and turns sometimes he darts out●a short ejaculation as sursum corda lift up your hearts they answer him with habemus ad Dominum we lift them up unto the Lord when he singeth one verse in a Psalme they chant out another when he prayeth for them the Lord be with you they require him with a like prayer and with thy spirit And what hurt or incongruitie is in this it is a religious seconding one the other in their devotion and stirring up the intention of the people It is as it were the laying gloing coals one upon another which presently kindle one the other and make the flame the greater And though now this be an eye-sore to some in our Common-Prayer-Book yet the ancients esteemed it no blemish but a beautie in their Liturgies For Saint Ambrose maketh mention of such a custome in Millain Platina in Rome Basil throughout all Greece and Plinie the younger among the first Christians in Trajans time within a hundred years after Christs death These Christians saith he before day sing Hymns alteratìm by turns or catches to one Christ whom they esteem a God And yet we may fetch this practice higher even from a quire of Angells in heaven for so we read Esay the 6. 3. And the Seraphims cryed one to another holy holy holy EXCEPT VIII Their last exception and greatest spleen is at the Letanie one of the choicest pieces in all the Service-Book wherein we offer up the sweetest incense of most fervent prayers and fragrant meditations to God And the Brownists their taking offence at it sheweth them to be of the nature of the Vultures who as Aristotle writeth are killed with the oyl of Roses or rather like swine who as Plinie informeth us cannot live in some parts of Arbia by reason the sweet sent of aromaticall trees there growing in everie wood Against this therefore they thunder out a volley of objections in the Letanie say they