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A44833 An answer to a book called A just defence and vindication of Gospel-ministers, and Gospel-ordinances put forth by J.G. In which he pretends an answer to E.B.'s Tryal of the ministers, and other things against the Quakers. ...Given forth from him who desires the edification and satisfaction of all in the things appertaining to the Kingdom of God, Rich. Hubberthorn Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. 1660 (1660) Wing H3217; ESTC R219971 13,602 16

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have no part nor lot in that matter but for his Treachery and Covetousness bearing the Bag and betraying the Lord of Life for pieces of money in that they may be compared to him But thou saist The wickedness of the Person doth not disanul his Office being lawfully called thereunto until he be degraded from that Office And to prove it thou bring'st several Scriptures as Ezekiel 34. 3. where the Shepheards eat the Fat and cloath with the Wool and did not feed the Flock Esa. 56. 10 11. They are dumb Dogs that cannot bark sleeping lying down loving to slumber they all look to their own way every one for his gain from his Quarter come ye say they I will fetch Wine and we will fill our selves with strong drink and to morrow shall be as this day and much more abundant and these saist thou were truly called From which Example your Ministers as thou thus provest are lawfully called to the work of the Ministry but when these Ministers and People read thy Book they will not much commend thee for such a Defence for them But how dost thou prove that those before mentioned were lawfully called unto the work of the Ministry being wicked Persons But when thou read'st the Scripture over again thou maist see that those are such as the Lord said did run and he sent them not and said the Lord saith when he had not spoken unto them Jer. 14. 14. Now in this Vindication thou hast not done any thing of that pretented confuting E. B. his Book called A Just and Lawful Tryal of the Ministers and Teachers of this Age but hast rather confirmed it for he truly compared them unto those spoken of before mentioned and thou hast compared them as to the sons of Eli which were sons of Belial and knew not God and so his Book yet stands in force for a Tryal to such unanswered And again as for thy pleading for Tythes for such as are like the sons of Belial thou hast no Precept Practice nor Example in Scripture to plead for such a thing neither as such nor as the Ministers of Christ And whereas thou mention'st Act. 4 and Act. 5. and 1 Cor. 9. 4 5 c. These Scriptures speak nothing of Tythes nor of any Maintenance to the Ministry but onely how that when they had planted a Vineyard they might eat of the fruit and when they had gathered a Flock might eat of the milk and when they had sown spiritual things amongst a people they had power to eat and power to drink and so it was ordained that they who Preached the Gospel should live of the Gospel but it was not ordained that those who Preached the Gospel should live by forced Maintenance or by making Merchandize of mens Goods and Estates of which the Priests in England for which thou writest this Defence are guilty Again thou goest about to Defend the Prie●ts sprinkling of Infants saying It is a Sign or Seal of Salvation page 64. Answ. If this be true that all Children thus sprinkled with water have the Seal of Salvation by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ are by this Baptism made partakers of Grace and United into the Church as Members of the Church Why do you say both Priests and Professors that there is no falling from Grace have not many been so engrafted into the Church and received that Seal whom you now call Hereticks and Deceivers why do you so confound one Principle with another for we have been already so ingrafted into the visible Church and made partakers of that Grace which you say its impossible to fall from And thou bring'st Calvins words which saith That although there be but a little water cast upon our heads yet notwithstanding it is not a vain figure for the Heavens are opened upon us and God speaks in it as it were from Heaven and Christ is there present with his blood as Witnesses of the usage and operation of the Sacrament and saith Baptism is a Token and Proof of our Cleansing or a Seal and Character whereby God confirmeth unto us that all our sins are cancelled and abolished and that they may never be rehearsed nor imputed So then by this he that hath a little water cast on his Head he hears God speak in it and Christ being present with his blood washes away all sin and this is a proof of his Cleansing So why dost thou and the Priests speak and write against us as being fallen from Grace or departed from the Truth seeing we have received as well as you the Seal of the Covenant and Proof of Cleansing and cannot fall from it if your Doctrine be true but as for Spinkling Infants thou hast not brought one Scripture to prove it but saist Baxter against Tombes hath proved it and quotest Calvin and Beza as if their words were plainer proof for thy purpose then any Scripture for there is no Scripture without invented consequences that is a precept for it and when thou hast wearied thy self and canst not prove it thou saist whatsoever may be proved from the Scripture by consequence to be the scope and meaning of the Scripture is sufficient proof page 73. Again thou askest us a question To shew thee one Command or Example in the Scripture for the Baptizing of those that are growen up whose Parents one or both were Christians by professing the Gospel of Christ Answ. If thou knew the Scriptures or didst weigh thy own words it would stop thee from asking such foolish unlearned Questions for thou thy self confessest that those which were growen up were Baptized and that they had also received the Holy Ghost before they were Baptized and as for them or their Parents being called Christians by their Profession many beleivers were Baptised and followed Christ before the name Christians was given to them as thou may read Acts 11. 26. that after much people was gathered and so become Churches they were first called Christians at Antioch so whatsoever their Parents were called by Profession that is nothing to that which thou art about to prove sprinkling of Infants but to conclude thy proof for Infants Baptism thou quotes Rob. Brook who thou sayst hath read more Ecclesiasticall histories to find out the rise and beginning of Baptism of Infants in the Church of Christ then all the Quakers and yet he could ne●er find the beginning of it so here all this while thou hast pleaded for that which thou knowest not who was the first Author of and so thou hast run out thy self into meer ignorance But that thou maist be informed made wiser than thy Teachers thy learned Readers of Ecclesiastical Historyes I shall shew thee the beginning of that Baptism and who first invented Holy Water In the reign of Pope Alexander was Holy Water first invented water mixed with salt and by the saying of these words we bless water mixed with salt among the people that all men sprinkled therewith may be Sanctified