that passeth by Each Saint hath a part as it happeneth as men are disposed or occasions are presented 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Foxe in the Fable Shee hath many addresses vnto many Mediators For Accesse and Audience For Dispatch and Riddance at Gods hands to bee heard and deliuered in time of Trouble few or none immediate To or By himselfe Many Mediators of Intercession onely For I say not For though shee be wise enough in confessing God the donor principall author I cannot I must not say that the Church of Rome denieth Call vpon mee to hold in good Obedience or in Diuinitie For Certainely Shee addresseth Te ad me Man vnto God vnto none but vnto God to be heard and deliuered by him alone out of tribulation in the Day of trouble as Author and Originall of all helpe and Grace deduced and deriued meerely wholly and totally from Him Freely professing willingly acknowledging as truely beleeuing as any doe or can doe whatsoeuer that Euery good gift and perfect giuing is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the worke of God and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sent of God It is true and must not bee denied The Romane Church in her Doctrine for and concerning Practise it is otherwise doth not impaire or impeach the Sure firme and fastest Meditation the Peculiar worke of Christ Iesus or appoint Propitiators in his place who alone as all sufficient in himselfe payed the price of our Redemption and made vp without assistants or Concurrents the alone absolute atonement by his Reall and perfect Satisfaction betwixt God and Man Willingly they acknowledge and professe together with vs that None but Christ none but Christ In Earth they haue none beside Him and in Heauen not any to bee compared to him who onely through the Dignitie of his Person and alsufficiencie of his Desert meritoriously obtaineth what wee can desire or what wee Call for at Gods hands It is false which is imputed if yet it bee imputed and layd vnto their Charge That they haue many Gods or many Lords That they Call vpon Saints as vpon God to helpe them That they mention not Christ but Saints in their Deuotions They doe not deny Call vpon mee In their Doctrine and Opinion Inuocation is peculiar vnto God alone as a part of that Eternall Morall dutie which man euer doth owe vnto God his Maker and Protector in all his wayes Inuocation I meane in a proper Sense it is Aduocation and Intercession onely which they giue vnto Saints which Act is sometime called Inuocation in a large extent as it passeth and is directed from man to them Their helpe with Dauid onely standeth in the Name of the Lord who hath made both Heauen and Earth For Gratiam gloriam say they dabit Dominus It is the Lord alone that Giueth because it is in his power to giue both Grace and Glorie Therefore the great Dictator of that side layeth downe this Proposition as resolued vpon on all hands by his Partie It is not lawfull to desire or request of the Saints that as Actors of Diuine good things and Benefits they grant vnto vs glory or grace or any other meanes vnto eternall happinesse For why Our helpe standeth in the Name of the Lord that hath made Heauen and Earth And he addeth That the Saints are no immediate Intercessors for vs with God but whatsoeuer they obtaine for vs at Gods hands that they doe obtaine by and through Christ And it is for ought I know the voyce of euery Romanist Non ipsi Sancti sed eorum Deus Dominus nobis est So it must not be imputed which is not deserued were they worse then they are It is a Sinne they say to belye the Deuill a Shame to charge men with what they are not guiltie of to make the breach bigger Being in this as shee is in other opinions somewhat 〈◊〉 us already too wide Concerning Saints departed thus they teach First that according vnto Scripture and Faith of the Church They liue and subsist in their better part That their Life is hidden in Christ with God whose Presence they now enioy in Glory in Heauen That there they rest from their Labours and magnifie his Mercies incessantly who hath sent such Redemption vnto their soules That there they forget not their brethren vpon Earth but remember the Church Militant vnto God And sure if there bee a Communion of Saints and a Fellowship betwixt those two maine parts of the Tolu◠the Church of the Redeemed by the blood of Iesus Triumphant in the Heauens and yet Militant heere in Earth Orant pro Nobis saltem in genere those that enioy the Fruit of their Labors now with God are not Forgetfull of their brethren behinde and not consummate in the Flesh I insist not on this it is not now questioned by the Opposites But farther they teach that the Saints in Heauen make also Particular Intercession for vs that is Some of them for some of vs here which is in my Opinion though no point of Faith for which I would burne yet true and certaine in all Credibilitie But how it is limitted or to bee enlarged how and in what sort and sense it is true may appeare more particularly vpon the Processe Thirdly that Saints and Holy Angels in Heauen may bee ioyntly or seuerally prayed vnto Many by many by one or some One by any one or by many which accordingly their People put in frequent practise Chaunting it euery where Ora pro me The Councell of Trent that Oracle of the Romane Faith and Religion resolueth thus Sanctos Orationes suas pro hominibus De◠offerre Bonum esse atque vtile suppliciter eos Inuocare Ad eorum Orationes opem auxiliumque confugere In some Generalities as their manner is leauing way and libertie for disputes abroad And in this point not better to be answered then by taking away the ambiguitie of the word Inuocation For better Euidence in this point the Question controuersed inter partes may be limitted or rather explained thus Inuocation as was touched is a word of ambiguous signification as most words are because there are more things then words Subsistances then names to Call them by It is taken specially for to Call vpon mee as him vpon whom we absolutely relye at least vltimatè in that kind It is also vsed for to Call vnto as to Helpes Assistants or Aduocates in suite when in Time of Trouble and Necessitie wee haue Cause to come and Call on God directing our Prayers euer primâ intentione vnto him When therefore wee talke of Inuocation of Saints and dispute concerning praying vnto Saints wee must vnderstand Inuocation so as directed vnto them onely as Assistants and Mediators onely of Intercession and therefore not to be Inuocated or Called vpon in the same sense and termes as God Almightie is the Author and Donor of euery good giuing nor to bee implored as Christ Iesus is the onely Mediator of Redemption and
successe discoursing of their deare affection to vs. say they as if this were questioned or to the purpose but they wish and will and what they can most readily procure quantum in ipsis as much as they can and they can doe much whatsoeuer in God may stead them or doe them good They loue vs indeed no question of that and so consequently according vnto the nature of loue in the effects thereof will and wish and seeke the good of those whom they loue Their loue is now greater being in Heauen vnto man then euer it was or could bee when and while they liued vpon Earth For Charitie is transcendent in those celestiall Citizens And therefore no question they pray for men vpon earth But how and for whom All Christians in generall their Brethren as yet in great tribulation the Church militant vpon the face of the Earth This they know the state of these and their necessities are knowen to them in Heauen and vpon knowledge they doe commiserate them and Commiseration procureth Intercession else were there no Communion of Saints no bond betwixt the militant and triumphant Church In specie for those Churches whereof themselues were parts noble and liuely members yet being in the flesh as more interessed there then otherwhere For if charitie bee ordinate here vpon earth diliguntur alieni magis proxiâ—â—i maximè proprij It cannot be imagined to bee disordinate it is not sure irregular in Heauen where order is most of all especially regarded as the Place and Persons where and by whom Gods will is performed so absolutly as that by the Doctor of Israel in his perfect patterne of Prayer wee are thither addressed for imitation thus Thy Will bee done in Earth as it is in Heauen But so for those ordinarily and of common course as that which they pray for is the generall good of all not the particular interest of any one Thus Gregorie Nazianzene was perswaded himselfe but did not presse others to beleeue it that his deceased Father then with God did specially intercede for his particular flock Orat. 19. pag. 288. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I am verily perswaded and beleeue that my Father now with God and the rather because hee is with God doth by mediating and interceding with God for you doe you more good and stand you in greater stead by his prayers then hee did while he liued amongst you by his Doctrine This is the common voice with generall concurrence without contradiction of reuerend and learned Antiquitie for ought I euer could reade or vnderstand and I see no cause or reason to dissent from them touching Intercession in this kinde I adde in particular yet somewhat farther To which we had rather adde then detract from it Those with God may and doe recommend vnto God in their celestiall Prayers their kindred friends and acquaintance vpon Earth whom they knew in whose loue and familiaritie they had interest yet being in the flesh with whom they had conuersed more reseruedly But no other sort and manner for them then onely for such instant and exigent necessities But in reference to what they vvere here acquainted withall For such causes occasions and employments as being yet in viuis and conuersant with them they knew of vnderstood and were acquainted withall or interessed in and haue not forgotten being Resiants in those heauenly habitations and all teares wiped away from their own eyes For the Soule of man separated from the Body by Death and subsisting alone in all freedome Which they cannot but retayne in memorie happinesse and content with God cannot bee thought to empaire or suffer losse in any indowment naturall or acquisite which tend to perfection of state and being and I speake and intend this of those indowments formerly had in time of life For as concerning those newly acquired accruing in and to the state they then enioy with God speake they that can tell if yet they can tell what they speake Nor is it so strange For if that those who are restored againe by Christ and raysed vp from the dust of the earth to liue with him in glorie in the day of restauration of all by Christ and retribution of the Righteous shall perfectly know and take notice of those whom they neuer knew nor saw perchance nor heard of in the flesh as being post-nati vnto them so many hundreds or thousands of yeeres If they shall know Adam Seth Enoch Noah Abraham all the Patriarchs Prophets Apostles how can they forget the names and notions of them with whom they conuersed so many yeeres From whose societie and companie they so lately departed vnto whom they imparted of their owne secrets and with whose counsels they were acquainted with whom so long they liued together seruing one God together as friends Diues in Hell where the Soule if any where Since euen the soules in hell can doe it loseth her indowments knew Abraham whom he had neuer seene in Earth and acknowledgeth him to be the Author of his stock and people the Iewes Diues in Hell had not forgot the number and condition of his Brethren on earth and was also carefull and mindfull of them least they should come into that place of torment Whether it bee an Historie as Tertullian and many other suppose or else a Parable as others rather thinke yet euen so it will come home to purpose For parables are not Chimaraes or speculations meerely but deduced from condition of things that bee Hee saw him as hee could with his vnderstanding he tooke notice of him with his vnderstanding Hee lost not the memorie of the things hee had who acquired the knowledge of what he had not Had he lost what he had it had beene in vaine for Abraham to haue said Sonne remember Ex hac parabola discimuâ— well resolueth Euthymius quòd in futuro saeculo non solùm peccatores vident bonâ—s boni peccatores sed â—gâ—â—scunt etiam igrotos Nam Diues ab Abraham câ—gâ—oscâ—tur Lazarus à reprobo epulons saith Gregory Nor will nor effects of will are extinguished in them either Naturall in good things as the rich man desired his Brethrens good or Deliberatiue in bad as being immutable vnto good And doubtlesse if in Carcare it be retained much more it is eminent in palatio The Saints in glory haue a greater portion Glory being the Perfection of Grace and Grace the aduancer of Nature then the Reprobate in Hell can enioy of the acts and perfections of the Soule Vpon this ground and perswasion of the Soules indowments Celerinus in Cyprian writeth vnto Lucianus a man readie to be offered vp in persecution thus Rogo itaque Domine peto per Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum vt caeteris Collegis tuis fratribus mejs Dominis referas abijs petas vt quicunque prior vestrûm coronatus fuerit istis Sororibus nostris Numeriae Candidae tale peccatum remittant
Saint Ignatius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In consideration and regard hereof let vs preferre our abiding here before all other content and pleasure whatsoeuer That so being aduantaged with much content we may through the meanes of their intercession become Inmates with them our fellow seruants And this was rather in the opinion of Him or Them that came thether And rather fitting himselfe to the opinion of others then expressing his owne to visite their shrine by working vpon his or their affection then in any actuall or reall performance of the Saint toward them as the same Father expresseth it in his second Oration vpon the Martyr Babylas 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The very sight of the Coffin presented by view to the vnderstanding amaseth it streight and so affecteth it in that very sort as if the party there interred were present really to be seene with the eye and together in prayer vnto God ioyned with vs. A plaine proofe of Chrysostomes resolution in the point who seemeth to be â—o very much for Saints mediation A strong imagination and no more an impression no reality vpon the vnderstanding And he addeth yet a case parallell of those men that hauing lost some one deare friend or other and going to visit the place of his buriall imagine that they behold him personally there which we know is an ordinary impossibility 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 addresse their speech vnto him or them as present as hearing instantly Imagination is strong they say and doth much sure it doth which produceth such effects in Inuocation for which Neither will they haue any better successe either with the Greeke or Latine Fathers if Chrysostome may interpret his owne meaning there is no great warrant in his workes Thus the Iury of Greeke Fathers ten of them at least haue said what they knew or could speake in the Case vpon their knowledge 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Not at all to purpose nor answering the question propounded to them The Latines succeed if not more full to purpose yet more frequent to the point For to supply defaulters if any were there are returned well-nigh a Decem non tales as being postnati and so partiall that speake indeed to the practice since it was in being out of the verge of our limitted time Gregory the Great he of Tours and some other And yet against the foreman is more exception For they are honest men at least of good reputation in the Country amongst their neighbours although their witnesse as interessed be not receiueable but Cornelius is a Counterfeit no legall man a flat Knight of the post Ex Latinis saith Bellarmine S t. Cornelius Papa in Epistola 1 a. quae est de translatione corporum Apostolorum is the first and formost that is brought to speake much to the preiudice of this cause more to the iust reproofe of the Defendant that bringeth that party to speake for him whom himselfe else-where will not acknowledge otherwise then for a Rogue For there hee resolueth that onely foure Epistles of Cornelius are extant and this alledged is none of them De scriptor Ecclesiae But he set forth his booke of Ecclesiastique Writers since and therefore more aduised vpon better search and second thoughts he hath not authorised the Epistle as authenticke But admit Cornelius were the Writer therof and not some boy of the Scullery or of the Stable yet the fellow whosoeuer speaketh not to purpose Orantes Deum Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum vt intercedentibus Sanctis suis Apostolis maculas vestrorum purget peccatorum The prayer that is made is to Iesus Christ and to no Saint There is mention of Intercession but without Inuocation Nor needed that For he meaneth onely such and no other Intercession but such which the Apostles of the Lamb and Church of the redeemed in heauen did make vnto God for their Brethren yet in Earth And euen that Intercession is not inlarged vnto all but confined vnto the Apostles alone Saint Peter and Paul because the present occasion touched theÌ„ alone The most that can be made of it is this that God would be pleased to apply the generall Intercession of those Apostles in and with the Church triumphant vnto this part of the Church Militant that at present did this honour vnto those Apostles this is all Saint Hillary is the next man Saint Hillaries testimony is more true then materiall and his witnesse is true vpon Psalme â—29 but not to purpose Hee speaketh onely of Angelicall Intercession Intercessione Angelorum non naetura Dei indiget sed infirmit as nostra As speaking onely of Angels Not a word touching Inuocation or Intercession of Saints Now Saints and Angels as it hath beene declared are ill and ignorantly combined per omnia in this case which are most what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Incompatible companions in the point Secondly hee speaketh of particular Intercession for them And of particular Intercession vnto whom they haue beene imployed or vnto whom they are assigned The first is a singular extraordinary case and so holdeth not for generall practice euery where The second is ordinary as is supposed which if it be indeed as is supposed then it is to purpose but not to the question and therefore this witnesse might haue been spared as that is in part out of 124. Psalme where if any intercession be intended it is that in generall for the whole Church Sed neque desunt stare volentibus Sanctorum custodiae neque munitiones Angelorum And anon to explaine the praesidium hee meaneth Ac ne leue praesidium in Apostolis vel Patriarchis ac Prophetis vel potius in Angelis qus Ecclesiam quadam custodiâ circumsipâ—runt crederemus adiectum est Et Dominus in circuitu populi sui This is their Praesidium a sure one indeed the other is accessory and for all out of that Communion and Society of Saints in the both Triumphant and Militant Church Saint Ambrose is produced to speake next but he speaketh not home as they would haue him Saint Ambrose speakes not out of full resolution nor to purpose as they alledge him Obsecrandi sunt Angeli qui nobis ad praesidium dati sunt Martyres obsecrandi quorum videmur nobis corporis quoddam pignore patrocinium vindicart Possunt pro peccatis rogare nostris But onely out of some opinion of their patronage qui proprio sanguine etiamsi quae habuerant peccata lauerunt Isti enim sunt Dei Martyres nostri praesules speculatores vita actuumque nosirorum Non erubescamus cos intercessores nostrae inâ—irmitatis adhibere quia ipsi infirmitatem corporiâ— etiam cum vincerent cognouerunt The very carriage of this passage telleth vs thus much that Saint Ambrose spake it not as out of resolution or conclusion Theologicall It was but opinion that they were our Patroni His speech bewrayeth his meaning Videmur we doe seeme to haue
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ioyne your Prayers vnto and with the Intercession of those Angels with them not to them vnto God for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he resolueth God was present there Wâ—llinâ— them to ioyne in prayer with those Martyres And therefore thirdly wee must remember that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hee would haue them ioyne in prayer with the Martryes because that these were more interessed where Saint Basil vttered that Oration then Saints at large are or can be vnto any of vs. They were all Cappadocians of that Countrey and they not long before Martyred at least not so long before but that they then liuing might remember them well enough and they remember the state of that their Countrey whereof peraduenture they were deputed to take speciall care and charge And so lastly it was a particular case and relyed vpon some dispensation onely which doth not warrant a generall practice of all vnto any at any time indeterminately A second testimony is recited out of the same Basil in his Comment The other testimony is of a higher straine vpon the 33. Psal these words of the Psalme The eyes of the Lord are vpon the Righteous and his eares are open vnto their prayers Where Saint Basil thus Sanctae spirituales virtutes aliquae oculi dicuntur quod curam susceperint nos intervisendi Nonnullae aures vt quae nostras suscipiunt preces But not high enough to take hold vpon Inuocation of Saints This passage is indeed of another straine as putting to decision dogmatically not related or amplified Panegyrically But euen this doth not reach home it is too short to take hold vpon Inuocation For he speaketh it of Angels not of Saints Being meant onely of Angels and their case is different their condition not the same Secondly not of all Angels in generall but onely of some and so appointed to that Act by speciall dispensation which it selfe is Thirdly Appointed by speciall dispensation peculiar Protection as they are Custodes parvulorum In the text there is a plaine diuersification of their Act Some are eyes others eares some imployed in messages to vs As peculiar Protectors Others receiuing our prayers but of whom From them it is probable that were sent to visit vs either as Guardians or Extraordinarily either way no warrant for Inuocation of Angels or Saints at large Lastly hee meaneth by our prayers The prayers alâ—o being vnderstood not of particular men but of the whole Church the prayers of the Church and not of euery particular man Not to diuide them in Opinion who in affection were so combined together Greg. Naz. coÌ„meth in with a thraue of testimonies not all indeed broght in by the Master of Controuersies but yet of that Nature Condition as that they may all speak as wel as some Nazâ—â—â—zen seem◠〈…〉 as they will haue it that we must take him in parts I wil produce them as they happened to come to my hands And first in the nineteenth Oration as the Copies goe pag. 288. touching his owne father deceased before Saint Sasil then present at the Sermon In the first he saith in deed what we deny not thus he Nec dubito quin hoc nunc quoque tanto magis deprecatione suà quà m prius doctrina praestet quanto nunc magis Deo appropiâ— quat Nazianzene in this place may well be taken to resolue this position dogmatically That the prayers of the Righteous in heauen regnant with God are more effectuall and doe sooner preuaile with God That the prayers of the Saints in heauen are more effectuall then the prayers of men militant in the Church vpon earth This is not questioned when they doe intercede Secondly Nazianzen resolued there that his father with God in heauen That his deceased Father would not forget his late Episcopall â—harge and happinesse did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fight for his flocke Doe the Office of a Pastor in praying for them No more doe I doubt then Nazianzene did thereof They whom he meant were sometime his fathers Episcopall charge He loued them instructed them cared for them defended them in his life nor could hee forget them being dead For the soule doth not drinke of Lethe lake to forget the things and passages of this world wherewith formerly shee was acquainted But I make a question indeed But neither he saith nor can they proue that he oâ— any of his Church prayed to his Father whether Nazianzen did pray vnto his father or any of his Church recommended their priuate necessities and afterward occasions vnto his mediation or aduocation I reade not that he or any else did so I am sure he prayed not vnto him there Not so much as speaketh vnto him by way of Apostrophe or compellation That which he supposeth his father did for his flocke is also supposed to be done motu proprio and not vpon solicitation And what is this to the case of Inuocation vnto peculiar Saints Farther hee proceedeth with Saint Basil his friend in his Funerall Oration thus The next is the supposed Inuocation of his friend Basil Tu verò Sacrum diuinum caput de coelo nos quaso respice carnisque stimulum à Deo nobis ad disciplinam datum aut precibus tuis siste aut certè vt forti animo perferamus persuade atque omnem nostram vitam ad id quod maximè conducibile est airige Nosque postea quà m ex hâc vitâ migrauerimus illis quoque tabernaculis tuis suscipe As direct an Inuocation supposed as may be Nay rather a desire and a wish that Saint Basil might be permitted to doe so and so then a prayer vnto him vpon this resolution that hee could and would doe so At least not so direct as is Ora pro Nobis of strangers euery way vnto one vnknowne But to one that he knew But indeed as Nazianzen spake it in his own language when he spake it it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a wish and desire at Gods hands as Billius a Papist hath translated it it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a prayer Respice nos so he hath it is an higher straine to an higher note then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 o si or vtinam nos respicias And that the Translator hath wronged Nazianzens meaning Abused by the Translator whereby the Controuersor was willing enough to take aduantage appeareth by his owne words a little before whereas the ground of his prayer is but opinion 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And now hee is in Heauen and there as I verily suppose offereth vp sacrifice for vs making Intercession for the people For howsoeuer hee is gone from vs yet verily hath hee not vtterly forsaken nor yet abandoned vs. All that he auoucheth whatsoeuer it be is but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as I am perswaded But howsoeuer vnresolued and grounded vpon opinion as I take it and therefore vncertaine and in him
things are 〈◊〉 Why then Saints and Angels are therewith acquainted that read and behold in Him as in a glasse whatsoeuer is Reconditum in his most secret thoughts I adde it is absolute absurditie nay flat impietie to tie God Almighty and therefore most free vnto a fatall concatenation of Causes Thus they doe in this case or else nor do they nor say they any thing to purpose There is a twofold glasse if yet they needs will insist vpon and prattle of a Glasse at least all things are which in effect is the same to the same purpose in a twofold difference and disposition Naturall and so necessitated or voluntarie and so free Agents are they all Naturall Agents worke and cannot chuse but worke alwayes at all times in the same sort being not diuersly applied vnto Patients The Sun being risen giueth light and cannot chuse but giue light vnto the world The Fire burneth alway and cannot chuse but burne combustible matter put vnto it For if they make it a voluntary glasses nothing is reuealed but at his pleasure But voluntary Agents not so They Can and Cannot worke at pleasure They suspend their Actions if they will and dispense and dispose them according vnto Time Place Occasion It was a prophane Paganicall conceit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Calaber that God was also subiect vnto fatall necessitie and decrees and hissed out with indignation by the wisest of them For wee know and are assured not only Christians but euen men indued with common sense and reason that God of all Agents is most free As being absolute of himselfe alone 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 no way depending vpon any no way beholding to another He can then suspend his Actions as he will in reuealing and concealing what he pleaseth To and from whom he will and pleaseth What he doth conceale how much he doth discouer of Himselfe vnto others they must first assure that from the Morning knowledge of Saints holy Angels in the glasse of the Deitie goe about to perswade vnto Inuocation and to establish Intercession of Saints Vnlesse and vntill they can doe this it is idle to talke of the glasse of the Deity in which all Gods Counsels and Actions are beheld or the Saints looking and prying into that glasse in which they may view and surueigh all his counsels Est enim verbum speculum voluntarium saith Biel most truly ostendens videnti se quantum voluerit non autem quantum relucet And Thomas farther 1. par qu. 12. artic 8. Cum nullus intellectus creatus illuÌ„ comprehendat non potest in ipso videre omnia quae facit vel facere potest Sed vel plura vel pauciora secundà m quod perfectius vel imperfectius eum videt Enough to breake in pieces this fancie of a glasse And if they make it a naturall glasse yeâ— who shall giue the beholder as sufficient capacity 〈◊〉 glasse is of continenâ—â— And yet farther to condescend to that which must not be granted because it is absurd false and impious that God is not a Voluntary but a Naturall glasse yet euen then and so are they neuer a whit the neerer by looking into or staring vpon that glasse to vnderstand whatsoeuer may concerne this case vnlesse that Obiectum be adaequatum the Beholder be of as great capacitie as the Glasse is of continencie which He beholdeth Suppose a glasse as wide large and spacious as all Europe which naturally may and doth represent all that part of the world yet what is that to mee for my information for businesse of Spaine Norway or Constantinople vnlesse my sight not able to reach in plano vnto all parts of Europe nay not of England a point of Europe could take a perfect and thorough view of each part and corner of the glasse so much more large and spacious then that one not very big Country is Each finite Subsistance hath a quousque for magnitude durance and perfection thither it may come but go no iot farther In the Glasse of the Deitie if there bee imagined such a glasse there are Actus and ordines Hierarchici and of Subordination according to capacitie capabilitie merit disposition or else the blessed Virgin hath but an equall portion with ordinary people S. Paul no more aduancement in Glory then he whose Acts burne and is himselfe scarce saued by fire And yet wee know there are vix saluati there are Porters at the house of God and such as are admitted ad mensam ad dextras ad sinistras But those that haue most and deepest insight greatest shares all come short of that large and immensurable dimensum to be made partakers of all the secrets of God nay to know the thoughts or praiers of men which they must vnderstand and that ordinarily too or how can a man say to them Pray for mee Nay vnlesse I doe know their nice dimensum how can I or any one say Pray for mee It may be that Saints part and portion whom I implore vnto whom I make Petition is not so large of such capabilitie nor extent as is requisite as anothers is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Angels behold what they can behold and see and Archangels as much as they are capable of each according vnto his owne measure and scantling For the Angels may see muâ—h alâ—hey cannot but euery one and all short of this degree and measure to know and vnderstand all things ordinarily Bellarmine in this point hath brought an argument that nor Himselfe nor any for Him haue or will euer bee able to answere If the Saints need at any time any new Reuelation and haue not the Abilitie and Sufficiencie at once from God that at the instant of their admittance into Glory the Church were too bold so hand ouerhead to implore them all or say vnto any one of them Ora pro me but first in Reason and Congruitie should Call vpon God to reueale and make knowen our Prayers vnto them Vpon which wee inferre They are too â—old For the Church is vniustly made accessory therto For their Abilitie is not absolute at the first but receiueth an accesse euer day by day vntill the Consummation of all by Christ If for instance the glory of Saint Paul doth increase daily in heauen as by meanes of his workes remaining to posterity the glory of God the effects of his grace the bounds of the Church are increased daily The reward of Saint Paul must be answerable to it and receiue an addition as their owne Schooles doe determine euery day Nor had hee his dimensum or portion at first So then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Adieu fine fiction of the Glasse of the Deity it is but a prety toy to play withall Adieu no lesse inuocation of Saints especially built vp froÌ„ that fiction a foregery inuented to delude men withall to teach them to rely vpon a reed of Egypt and lose faire and sure possibilities nay certainties sure otherwhere
vnresolued Nor doth he so much as say Doe this but oh that thou wouldest doe this for me Secondly it is but a point of his rhetorique and no more And meerely Rhetoricall and so is all that conclusion directed vnto him as present there an ordinary straine of wit and inuention in such passages Nazianzen was not of opinion I suppose that Saint Basil really and actiuely did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is in the phrase of the Church at that time offer the holy Eucharist or consecrate it in Heauen No more was he resolued that those other parts and particulars here specified by him were then at that time really and actually performed Lastly it is a precedent of a particular case And at the best it is but a particular case of a friend to a friend of a friend to a friend then lately dead and also concerning that which he might very well remember and concerning which it had peraduenture passed by contract betwixt them as was betwixt Cyprian and Cornelius touching 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a stabbe in the flesh some certaine tentation or other for remouing of which Saint Basil is put in mind to entreat God Very likely according vnto promise and stipulation So in effect it is a particular case And so proueth no generall practice of one friend to another which can be no precedent for generall practice and example It is grounded meerely vpon peraduentures not resolued positiuely It concerneth remembrance of things formerly passed and not intimation of things newly done Vpon the selfe-same termes runneth that which is said to be directed vnto Athanasius by the same Nazianzene The next directed to Athanasius by Nazian is better interpreted onely the Interpreter is there the honester man and maketh him speake in the Optatiue as out of opinion not in the Imperatiue as out of Iudgement thus Nos autem vtinam ipse benignus desuper placidus aspicias atque hunc populum gubernes meque siquidem res pacatae futurae sint in vitâ adbuc teneas gregemque vnà mecum pascas sin autem Ecclesia sit bellis flagratura reducas aut assumas tecumque cum tui similibus colloces tametsi magnum sit quod postulo Which if we take it literally and dogmatically Athanasius is made therein much more then a Mediator of Intercession He could haue said no more vnto Christ Iesus himselfe And if it bee as well vnderstood But Gregory was too well grounded in Diuinity and had not his name Theologus for naught thus to erre and too religious thus to fall soule vpon Gods owne prerogatiues It is a Prayer directed vnto God that Athanasius then in rest It is either directed vnto God might doe for him thus and thus as a speciall friend as interessed in that common cause of the Church wherein no man had his part so deepe as he hauing beene in his life the principall defender of Christian verity and opposer of hereticall impiety Athanasius against all the World and all the World against Athanasius Or if to Athanasius alone addressed no more but a rhetoricall flourish with a figure Or if directed to Athanasius to be taken as a Rhetoricall flourish I neede not seeke farre for warrant to this exposition In the same passage wee haue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Doe thou breake off my present Oration here His meaning is not that Athanasius should either really come downe from Heauen or actually by some extraordinary course and meanes from Heauen make him to desist and breake off his Oration and stop his mouth But in effect thus and no more Let mee here conclude and make an end Such proofes hath Nazianzene for this Inuocation that Rhetoricall Figures Apostrophees Prosopoiees and such like must goe for demonstrations That Oration of his vpon Saint Cyprian commeth last to pay for all And so may we take that also in this Oration vpon Saint Cyprian The first allegation wherout is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the same and may receiue the selfe-same answere which that did out of the other vpon Athanasius whereto an ancient Scholiast and Commentor whom I haue seene and vsed in written hand doth accord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Conclusion according vnto Rules of Art is cast into the forme of a wish Therefore to be discussed in Hermogenes Schoole and not pressed in disputes of Dogmaticall and Positiue Diuinity Nazianzene concludeth his Oration vpon Saint Cyprian thus At tu nos è caelo benignus aspicias sermonesque nostros vitam gubernes sacrumque hunc gregem pascentem adjuues cùm in caeteris rebus quoad eius fieri potuerit Eum ad optima quaeque dirigens tùm graues lupos syllabarum verborum captatores amoliens This passage will not reach home to Ora pro nobis with confidence in perswasion He speakes to one that laâ—ely knew the persons and passages of the Church to parties vnknowne and not interessed particularly He desireth it might be so that Cyprian might doe it he doth not desire Cyprian to doe it For he was not resolued Cyprian could doe it He beleeued that the Saints departed vnderstood Yet he desires him not to do what he knew whether hee could doe or no. and tooke notice of things done here But by credibility not by Faith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the phrase he putteth on it and though in two places hee seemeth to goe farther vnto 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet it is but in some onely cases that he so speaketh nor is that with ordinary resolution In some Cases as to those that were but lately departed acquainted with the persons and the practice and passages of things in the Church or of priuate men the memory whereof may cause in them a fellow feeling and procure a carefull respect to them in Heauen and so recommendation vnto the Almighty Thus in his 24 Oration touching Athanasius then with God he pronounceth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I know right well and am perswaded saith he that now at this present Athanasius being in Heauen doth from thence behold vs and helpeth those that suffer for Righteousnesse sake He meaneth by interceding vnto God for them being a man that in his life had suffered much for Piety and Christs cause and drunke as deepe of tribulation as euer did any Out of this compassion from a fellow-feeling vpon experience Athanasius hee thought and so doe I recommended the cause of the Church vnto God But Nazianzene thought not no more doe I that Athanasius did or could vnderstand euery priuate mans passages or needs in the Church And therefore neither doth he himselfe pray vnto him nor aduiseth vs or any for to doe it As for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I know right well it doth often inferre no more then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Opinion vncertaine Aâ— appeares by the like doubtfull speach not Resolution And what Nazianzene indeed did thinke
hope of successe they fall vpon it And the rather so And this is the onely example of such practice in antiquitie and as weake to helpe them as she was then to helpe her selfe because this is the onely example of such practice in Antiquity a good inducement to suppose the Custome was not farre growen in nor the opinion much preuailing So that here is but a single practise of one onely Maide in fearefull extremity vpon some vncertaine perswasion that the virgin Mary happily might by extraordinary dispensation haue some speciall Patronage by assignment ouer Virgines Which is no absurdity much lesse impiety was grounded on a more generall perswasion of the Church that the Saints though in heauen had interest some way in the state of their friends allies and companions especially for Professions of life Societies of men Countries and Churches whereof themselues were A perswasion then but of opinion not Religion no man compelled to beleeue or to practice it Nor it selfe nor the consequents thereof points of faith commanded Grant vs this liberty and we contend not If they in all assayes practice it themselues would teach their Nouices and Proselites so to doe as this Virgin doth Haue recourse to God and Christ to God in Christ and then ex abundanti vpon the By helpe or helpe not take in Saint Mary Saint Peter Saint Paul so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Nazianzen phrased it if they can heare vnderstand or helpe there is no more but this If they assist good and well if not no hurt or harme done God can and will to whom principally primarily and before all we haue recourse in Christ Iesus with full hope and confidence of assured deliuerance ad voluntatem or salutem But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In the Church of Rome it is otherwise Our Lady hath all Prayer and Deuotion addressed vnto her All Saints there attend vpon her Our Lord hath but reuersion at second hand Our God hath few suppliants or none at all euery man running to our Ladies shrine or Saint Curlos And an example onely related by Nazianzen and no more And yet farther I adde Nazianzen is but Narrator of this story and no more that which he hath is diegematicall not by way of conclusion or of approbation He passeth no censure to it any way nor letteth vs vnderstand what his owne opinion was in the point And yet by the Master of Controuersies it is alleaged as dogmaticall a proofe from Nazianzen and for his iudgement in the case For so was his proposall for the conclusion that Sancti are Inuocandi Probatur quartò testimonijs Graecorum Latinorum Patrum So that we find a manifest collusion in our great Master here Beside the Narration was but an heare-say Nazianzen was no eare witnesse thereof nor doth report it of his certaine knowledge So that peraduenture it was nor so nor so And the learned know that this narration of Saint Cyprian howsoeuer taken vp in the Easterne Church and beleeued hath nor view nor appearance of Fact in the West Nor can be clearely resolued by all the Annalists in the World Their great Dictator Baronius is plainely buzzarded in the point and wisely concealing that which hee could not reconcile passeth it ouer as in a dreame So that the whole story for ought we know or can conceiue is but Apocryphall I know not whether meerly Apocryphal and this particular narration must needs come vnder the same verge and rancke Or if not But if authenticall not of authority enough to confirme their tenet but we admit it for authenticall yet singularia haue no warrant to be rules of actions vnto others No more this then that other of Gorgonia related also and with better credit because ex certá scientiá by the same Nazianzen she being his owne sister So it was that she being desperately sicke when all Physick and hope of helpe from man failed as Iustina in extremity Ad mortalium omnium medicum confugit But how in a peculiar and strange manner Hauing some remission of her sicknesse from the violence thereof on a night at midnight she getteth vp and out of her chamber into the Church she goeth falleth on her knees downe before the Altar intreateth him that was worshipped vpon the Altar of all loues mercies works of wonder to restore her vnto her health at last hauing prayed long wept much watched a good space she layeth her head down vpon the Alter and threatneth God so Nazianzen phraseth it she wil neuer rise vp from that place vntill hee send her health and strength againe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Wonder as it was See instantly she felt her selfe perfectly whole and sound This might be done and doubtlesse was so For we beleeue the publike protestation vpon knowledge of such a Reporter as was Gregory Nazianzen But this is no precedent for imitation No more then that fact of Iustina was exemplary though we yeeld him the Euidence to be true Priuate humours Singular actions vpon sudden motions of some speciall instinct must end where they began though excusable tolerable or auailable in particular dangerous they may bee for directions vnto others that haue no such speciall warrant as they might peraduenture haue vpon occasion Their equall in time deare friend and neere alliance in blood Gregory Nyssen is yet more plainely Panegyricall in that which they cite Gregory Nyssene commeth to speak next Who performeth more apparently the part of a Panegyrist in that Encomium of Theodorus remembred by the Controuersor Intercede as deprecare pro patriâ apud communem Regem ac Dominum Timemus afflictiones expectamus pericula non longè absunt scelesti Scythae A plaine Rhetoricall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the very carriage of his Oration no dogmaticall resolution of his faith yet one such testimony could our Masters afford vs one or find vs one out is worth an hundred of these that insinuate but prooue not because they do not vnderstand Nyssen spake it as an Orator not as a Diuine In a popular Sermon of Commemoration not in a Doctrinall determination as appeareth by that which is added for exaggeration As appeareth by his following exaggeration Quod si majori quoque opus fuerit aduocatione ac deprecatione fratruratuorū Martyrum roga chorum cum omnibus vnà deprecare Multorum justorum preces multitudinum populorum peccata luant Admone Petrum excita Paulum vt pro ecclesijs quas constituerunt soliciti sint pro quibus catenas gestauerunt pro quibus pericula ac mortes tulerunt They will not I imagine presse vs to beleeue that when any Saint inuocated cannot preuaile alone and by himselfe for their owne assertion is God heareth them alway hee goeth vnto others and desireth their assistance yet such a case is put by Nyssen here as if Theodorus not being in such grace with God to obtaine he must be forced to take to himselfe seconds
and thirds Peter Paul and the rest of that glorious company his fellow Martyres It is idle to alleage such Rhetoricall passages and Panegyricall straines to proue points of difference and Controuersie dogmatically Againe it is to purpose and must be remembred that Gregory spake it on the ninth of Nouember And the solemnity of the time in which some greater honor perhaps might accreâ— to the Saint of the day the day of his Excesse and Consummation vnder Maximianus and then kept holy-day in that Church It may be probable and that is all For certaine it is not there being no constat of it in infallible truth onely coniecturall in opinion that vpon that day vpon that occasion God who as hee is glorious in his Saints so is he also glorified by his Saints doth discouer vnto that his glorious Saint and Seruant whose memory for his noble Acts is famous in the Church that day for the honour that is done vnto himselfe in him either by Angelicall intimation or Diuine extraordinary dispensation for his more accidentally at least accrewing glorification some passages in that place where he was interessed that so he may honour him the more in granting his desires and petitions for the good of them that in him and by him doe honour and glorifie God If the Church had such an opinion of old as peraduenture they had it was but opinion and probable pious meditation to excite others to goe after those Worthies examples by recommendation of the so excellent reward It was no point of faith nor preached to beleeue not beleeued to practice generally but left at mens liberty to beleeue or not So let the Church of Rome beleeue it if they will So they presse not all others to beleeue it with them nor condemne them of Heresie that doe not practice it nor will beleeue it Thirdly it was a generall case Being 〈…〉 touching the whole Church and the likelieâ— to be knowne of Saints in heauen and touched notoriously the whole Church that which Nyssen intended in that place no priuate occasion or peculiar interest of some man It was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For the state of his Countrey then in hazzard The Scythians the Gothes and such other enemies were then vp in armes Publike actions Vniuersall occasions long in suspense much depending a good while before notorious vnto Heauen and Earth are the subiect of that Intercession there intended which immane quantum diâ—â—ert from such cases as commonly come vnder their Inuocation Theodorus in Nyssens opinion could not be was not ignorant of these passages and vpon such perswasion hath addresse vnto him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Although thou art passed the course of this life yet thou well enough wortest the sufferings and necessities of man what they be Begge peace therefore of God for vs that so this Festiuall solemnity of thine may not cease 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The state of mankinde in generall not particular and that also by remembrance of things past not information of things present or if so yet of generall report and common fame not of speciall notice or intimation And lastly what certainty he had hereof of Theodorus Presence Assistance And all the while spoken by one full of vncertainties pag. 1017. and possibility to relieue appeareth by his owne words somewhat before 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Wheresoeuer thou now wonnest come hither in person and be a spectator of this solemnity For we call vnto thee againe that hast called vs to participate thereof And whether thou conuersest in heauen with God on high or wonnest in some heauenly habitation aboue or Copartner and Companion with the Quieâ—s of Angels art assistant in the presence of theirs and thy Lord Or else with Powers and Principalities as a most faithfull seruant dost honour and worship him For a little while omit those imployments there and come in friendly though in inuisible sort vnto them who do honor vnto thee These words doe not runne in such a straine as soundeth for resolution and dogmaticall proofes scarce for opinion or conceit And yet if it did as it doth not we answere it is an extraordinary case and therefore not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the purpose 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 much often and frequent come not home to the point Inuocation warranted must insist vpon perpetuall deputation thereto 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 alway and euery where must come in It must be a rule of generall practice or we cannot subscribe it let it be done and taught dogmatically Ephraim the Syrian harpeth vpon the same no other string Their next testimony 〈◊〉 vpon the same string of Rhetoricke Precamur beatissimi qui pro Domino saluatore proque illius charitate sponte impigrè tormenta sensistis atque ideò familiarius Domino coniuncti estis vt pro nobis miseris c. Dominum interpâ—llare dignemini vt superueniat in nos gratia Christi Nay he striketh not so full a stroke For it is but an Apostrophe in generall which inferreth no conclusion at all Not to any one peculiar selected Saint But toucheth a more general assembly of Saints but to the intire and whole Assembly of those happy ones in generall And that not in a peculiar case of neede or priuate interest of any one man but in an vniuersall case of mediation In which kind there is no question betwixt the parties contendant this day In an vniuersal case of mediation For it is in Confessâ— that all the Saints departed each seuerall Saint departed and with God doe and doth incessantly inuoke the high Maiestie of Heauen pro Nobis miseris peccatoribus de Negligentiae squalore sordentibus Which Brother-like affection and Saint-like performance is an especiall part of the Communion of Saints Cyril of Ierusalem Cyril of Ierusalem strikes not so strong a stroke if yet hee be the Author of those Mystagogical Catechismes vnder his name which in some ancient Copies are ascribed to Iohn of Hierusalem who or what he was I know not is recited thus by the Controuersor in moe places then one Cum hoc Sacrificium offerimus facimus mentionem etiam eorum qui ante nos obdormierunt primum Patriarcharum Prophetarum Apostolorum Martyrum vt Deus orationibus illorum suscipiat preces nostras In which saying he commeth not so farre as Ephraim He remembreth the practice in the Church in those dayes a most ancient and very laudable custome tending to piety and example of good life to commemorate the memory of the dead at the Altar Speaking onely of the Commemorations of the dead after an ancient and laudable custome Patriarchs Prophets Apostles Martyrs and Confessors and withall to beseech the Maiesty of Heauen that he would gratiously accept regard and grant their prayers for his Church vpon Earth and mercifully giue eare vnto their owne Supplications then poured out vnto
it and no more Secondly And that opinion 〈…〉 as patrocinium quoddam is from full patronage it was restrained euen in that his opinion not left at randon or full liberty Patrocinium quoddaÌ„ is all he can stretch vnto he could not well resolue what where or when it was afforded It is not an impossible thing for theÌ„ to pray for vs. And he that saith so no more but so might as well be produced to say it was no certaine thing Beside Saint Ambrose there speaketh of there Intercession in Genere for the Church not in particular for any man vpon occasion And not more vncertaine then too generall Intercession at large and of Inuocation at large that which is else-where more cleerely explained that God would be pleased to accept and to grant the prayers and Petitions that they make for vs the Church yet militant vpon Earth being certainly inserted into the Couenant of grace Baptismo sanguinis and by shedding of their owne blood so seeing and enioying God that like vnto Angels Guardians they become vnto vs Praesules vitae speculatores actuumque nostrorum vnto whom res nostrae did belong and appertaine as the ioynt Actions of a Community doe in common to any of that Society The manner how they were so The tearmes how farre they were so The meanes whereby they did so he resolueth not he could not tell and therfore contenteth himselfe in generall termes with that onely Intercession which without all doubt they make for the Church which may cause them desire to know what they can though what they might know he nor no other could certainly tell and therefore could not warrant as indeed he doth not any ordinary Inuocation of any one Saint for any particular occasion whatsoeuer What his opinion was therein no man can better tell then himselfe or speake to more purpose then he hath done In Comment ad cap. 1. Epistol ad Rom. where hee concludeth Ad Deum quem vtique nihil latet promerendum suffragatore non est opus sed mente denotâ It was not then of necessity in Saint Ambrose opinion to vse Intercession of Saint or Angell He might goe himselfe by personall addresse and euery pious deuout man might so goe in person needed not vse Intercession of any if any did interced for him good if none did yet lost he nothing thereby Lastly whatsoeuer Saint Ambrose hath or opined in that place it is not meant de sanctis with God in generall And not meanâ— de sanctis 〈◊〉 in generall but of Martyres 〈◊〉 particular but onely of Martyres in Particular Now their case was singular their priuiledges surmounting in the opinion of antiquity And therefore what by some is applied vnto Martyres is not to be transferred vnto all in generall It was an vse in the Primitiue Church to pray for the dead how and wherefore I dispute not now But he that should doe so for any Martyr in Saint Augustines iudgement much wronged the Martyr Hierome concluding his Funerall Oration vpon Paula Gregory Nazianzen hath taught Saint Hierome also how to Rhetorize desireth her in heauen to assist him with her prayers thus Vale Paula cultoris tui vltimam senectutem Orationibus jâ—ua This hee learned of his Master Gregory Nazianzene and both of them as Panegyrists in RhetoruÌ„ scamnis For it is no more but a Rhetoricall conuersion vnto her not of force to conclude a Diuinity probleme Secondly I answere it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a wish and not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And it appears as it is onely a wish a direct prayer vnto her Thirdly it was addressed to one his most familiar intiâ—e and ancient friend and therefore no way obligatory or exemplary for vs Addressed to a late familiar friend ex opere operato and it may be he spake it out of assurance of or with reference vnto some promise or compact betwixt them made as in the case of Cyprian and Cornelius Lastly Hierome was perswaded shee did remember him already Vpon ground of her kind remembrance and so it was no prayer by direction For so else-where we finde it concerning Blesilla Loquitur illa alia multa quae taceo pro te Dominum rogat mihique vt de eius mente securus sum veniam impetrat Peccatorum Maxâ—imus of Turin by the like addresse concludeth his Panegyricall Sermon vpon Saint Agnes The like addresse Maximus of T. had vnto S Agnes Itaque O splendida Christo pulchra Dei filio omnibus Angelis et Archangelis grata vt nostri meminisse digneris quibus possumus precilus exoramus He made that Sermon vpon her Anniuersary minde day and as then fortè present at that speciall occasion by peculiar dispensation so he directeth his speech vnto her and that not with confidence of being heard Without any great confidence of being heard Quibus possumus precibus is as much as nothing In effect as I can so I direct this my addresse vnto thee heare and helpe me accordingly as thou canst and maist So the man in the point was not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He was not so fully perswaded of that or any Saints assistance as that he went farther then opinion In another place to that purpose hee speaketh so reseruedly Ideò veneremur eos in saeculo quos defensores habere possumus in futuro Possumus peraduenture and no more vncertaine he was whether I or no And yet farther Possumus saue onely those as wee were sometime interessed in here And thirdly Defensores vpon generall cases of the Church not in particular assayes of our owne The Emperor Theodosius in Ruffinus History Lib. 2. cap. 33. doth not inuocate any Saint And wee cannot thinke much otherwise of Theodesius or Saints at all onely vpon that exigent of the Rebellion of Eugenius and his Complices he went in Procession with Clergy and Laity that were firme vnto him in great deuotion to the Oratories Churches Chappels Sepulchers and Shrines of the Apostles of Martyrs and other holy Saints there he made his prayers vnto God in Christ not vnto them though hee were so perswaded they could and would take notice of him and assist him with their prayers vnto God Almighty as well they might then and hee be so perswaded at that time concerning them in such a publike action as that was in which not onely the Imperiall Maiesty and State Though his was also in a 〈◊〉 action â—â—â—thing both the Imperiall State and the State of Religion but Christ an Religion also lay at stake vpon the hazard and tryall of that dayes aduenture If then any some or all the Saints of Paradise did assuredly take notice and were informed in particular and this were also to be proued yet is it no warrant for their ordinary knowledge in other passages nor yet for extraordinary when we will haue it no more then that wee expect in all
any The Louanists found it ascribed vnto Seucrianus in some Copies which argueth it a stragler a masterlesse piece a rogue And more then that a blasphemous varlet in this very place recited by the Cardinall Controuersor Omnes cursus naturae virgo Maria in Domino nostro Iesu Christo suscepit vt omnibus ad se confugientibus foeminis subueniret sic restauraret so it followeth where the Cardinall left of omnegenus foeminarum ad se venieutium noua Eua seruando virginitatem sicut omnegenus viuorum Adam nouus recuperat Dominus Iesus Is not this a varlet in graine a fit Patron for Inuocation that in the very grand-work of Redemption parteth stakes betwixt Christ Iesus and the Virgin Mary that entitleth her nouam Eâ—am as Christ is called nouus Adam That professeth she restored all Woman-kind as Christ did all Mankind I suppose William Postel coyned this worke to giue credit and countenance vnto his old Beldame Howsoeuer the Cardinall wanted witnesses it seemeth that tooke in such a Rascall to make vp a number for want of better euidences and to purpose As for Saint Leo The other of Leo if they were doubled could not help their cause hee might afford him many moe testimonies of like nature concerning Saint Peters Intercession as Serm. 3. in die Anniuersario Serm. 1. de jeiunio 10. mensis Serm. 5.6.8 in Natali Apostolorum All which extend no farther then this that some speciall Church and people as Saint Peter had ouer the Roman Church Being all of particulars and yet Leo goeth no farther then this By his merits and Prayers we hope to find assistance Intercession without any Inuocation These testimonies looke toward Intercession that produced in the Controuersies is for neither Vnlesse this may be remembred for to establish Inuocation Make you friends of the vnrighteous Mammon that is make Intercession and call vpon Mammon For the text of Saint Leo looketh that way Per bonam aemulationem ipsorum exambiâ—e suffragia Saint Augustines authority would haue preuailed much if he had fauoured the cause I haue reserued Saint Augustine for the last as being the man vpon whose shoulders for dogmaticall points disputed and resolued the Church of God hath as much relyed as vpon any since the Apostles times For scarcely is intercession found in him vnlesse it be of Martyres who in the opinion of the Church and also of Saint Augustine But he resolues it onely as an act of speciall dispensation for Martyres had an especiall priuiledge aboue other Saints And therefore he that yeeldeth Martyres as were interessed rebus viuentium denieth it precisely of other Saints Non ideò putandum est vivorum rebus quoslibet enteresse possed defunctos quoniam quibusdam sanandis vel adiuvandis Martyres adsunt Sed ideò potius intelligendum est quod per diuinam Potentiam Martyres viuorum rebus intersint quoniam defuncti per naturam propriaÌ„ viuoruÌ„ rebus interesse non possunt So that by Saint Augustines resolution it is an Act of speciall dispensation no naturall ability or sufficiency in any Saint to take notice of any thing done vpon earth And secondly so an act of speciall diuine dispensation that it belongeth vnto some onely and is not communicated vnto all generally Martyres alone haue that priuiledge Which instance of Saint Augustine out of the opinion of the Church answereth well-nigh all allegations of any practice this way for Inuocation or Intercession in antiquity And lastly Martyres with some limitation Ad memorias eorum And for them too with some limitation and not else-where These Memoriae being now no where extant Inuocation in his opinion is ceased Or else in Natali eorum die vpon the day of their consummation which being but once in the yeare and in so long a tract of time vncertaine also Inuocation can bee but seldome and then too vncertaine and they being onely to be then Inuoked doe make Intercession onely then Sicut dicit Apostolus non omnes sancti habent dona curationum ita nec in omnibus memorijs sanctorum ista fieri voluit ille qui diuidit propria vnicuique sicut vult August Epistola 137. And the testimonies recited in the Controuersies out of Augustine are all for Martyres not Saints of any other rancke or reckoning betwixt whom and Martyres he putteth this difference that Cum pro caeteris defunctis oretur Martyres pro nobis rather intercedant Thus they spake and wrote that for fiue hundred yeares or thereabout after Christ And so it was resolued by the first and best in the Primitiue Church were the chiefe and principall amongst the Worthies of Dauid Whereof not any one speaketh positiuely to the point as in full resolution of the truth of that conclusion Holy Saints and Angels are to be Inuocated And therefore the latter Writers Those that remaine vpon record filed vp in the Controuersies Gregory the first Gregory of Turon Bede Anselme Bernard are later postnati to the practice growne into vse and therefore not authenticall in the question Nor did Philip Melanthon at all enlarge Quiante Gregorium ignotam fuisse scripsit sanctorum Inuocationem Namely for vse and approbation of the Church And Decrees of Councels are the lesse to be listned vnto As for decrees of Councels in determinations of Faith Our Masters of Controuersies are not much troubled with any great store of them In the appendex vnto the Councell of Chalcedon the Bishops of Europe write thus vnto the Emperour Leo. Sanctissimum Proterium in choro ordine sanctorum Martyrum ponimus ejus intercssione misericordem propitium Deum habere postulamus But first of all it is no Councell decree indeed it specifieth a practice of the Church and so also a beleefe They vsed to pray vnto God that he would be pleased to accept the Intercession of Martyres which is nothing to the point in question For here is inuocation directed vnto God not Saints Intercession of Saints is remembred but not of all onely Martyres Then Intercession is not Inuocation It is and may be where Inuocation is not etiam in particular but this is also in generall For if not the whole Church represented yet for the Church representing in a speciall action a peculiar time singular occasion so remarkeable and notorious it could not be hid they desire God that Proterius might remember them and commend them vnto the Maiesty of Heauen The second allegation is of lesse operation Flauianus post morteÌ„ viuit Martyr pro nobis orat It is onely an asseueration what he did not Inuocation that so he might and that which he did was a speciall case of Intercession for them whom he knew in the flesh of deprecation for the state of the Church whereof hee had speciall notice in his life being therein interessed particularly But quid hoc ad Bacchum for ordinary practice commonly Shew mee any positiue assertion of Father any Decree of