likely to see The poore man can afford vs no Fathers heere his reading it seemeth would not reach vnto that and his good Masters were not at hand to help him I could furnish him if hee would thank mee to better purpose then his Scriptures haue but want I suppose he will rather then be beholding to a Protestant To conclude wee will not deny him that Euery man hath his Angell-keeper but within the Church at least not rambling abroad Are they not all of them ministring spirits sent forth to minister To whom where Not to euery man vnder heauen but with restriction Who shall be heyres of saluation In offensiue sort against their foes in defensiue manner for their good Thus the Scriptures speake and no otherwise thus the Fathers taught and no otherwise Not Euery man but Euery Christian man at his Birth or at his Baptisme hath his Guardian Angell deputed to him XXIIII That the holy Angels pray not for vs. WIth Ly and all Sir Gagger Not pray for vs Now I pray you who saith so No man will say or think so that beleeueth in his Creed The communion of Saints and can tell what connexion of the two parts of the Church of the Redeemed there is the one militant heere in Earth the other Regnant and Triumphant in Heauen Now a principall part of that Communion and Society which they haue with vs is to recommend our state and necessities vnto God our Father To which end God Almighty hath as wee professe in our Collect vpon Michaelmas Day appointed the Seruice of men and Angels in a wonderfull sort But somewhat there was or the man mistook Their Praying for vs may bee considered two waies either in Generall or in Particular For the peace of Sion the prosperity of Ierusalem the state and condition of the Church militant in earth thus in generall For Manasses in Captiuity Hezechiah beleaguered by Senacherib For this man or that man in particular vpon speciall motiues and occasions and that likewise two waies either ordinarily and of common course or specially by Delegation in extraordinary seruice Now this Proposition Holy Angels pray for vs doth not limit nor explaine the tearmes but is ambiguous as this peddler most an end frameth all in his Pack to calumniate and to deceiue Whether All Angels pray for All men or All for some men or some for all or some for some who can tell that was not of counsell to his pen and purpose As it lyeth lurking in fraudulent tearmes I can answere both waies and contradictory waies First Holy Angels pray not for vs and truly too Nor shall this Goose hiscere against my answere viz. Not euery holy Angell in speciall for euery man in particular Not at all times vpon any or all occasions I can also answer and truly too Holy Angels pray for vs. And so this Gagger may goe shoo the Goose That is It is a principall part of their performance in Heauen as they magnifie their Maker eternally so to recommend vnto Him vncessantly the Estate and good beeing of the Church of the Redeemed as yet in great Tribulations I adde yet further At all times some of them pray for the particular estate of some priuate Men Cities States Societies or Countries And the Holy Angell-keepers for their speciall charges commended vnto their trust by God at sometime some of them for all for some vpon special occasion employment or designation as extraordinarily they may and doe vndertake Now to come home to your loose laxe affirmation Your expresse words in our Bible are not so expresse as to speake to your purpose that of Zachar. 1. 9. 10. runneth thus O Lord of hosts how long wilt thou net haue mercy vpon Ierusalem and on the Cities of Iuda against which thou hast had indignation these 70 yeeres For it followeth not because this one Angell prayed for Ierusalem in Captiuity any Angel doth pray for any or euery man This was extraordinary your supposall must bee ordinary This was occasionall for his employment your Angels must not bee so allotted Happely this was their Angell-Guardian Michael Prince of the Synagogue Pleade thus for Angell-keepers none will gayn-say you They pray for vs no question at all This was in a peculiar case for restoring Ierusalem and Iuda according to promise in appointed time 70 yeeres designed by the Prophets So the question was idle like your selfe Whether this were not a Prayer The question well ordred should haue beene Whether All Angels at all times doe not in particular pray for euery particular man as this Angell heere did for Sion To the former wee answere positiuely Yea to the second negatiuely No. Nor can this instance euict that Tobie 12. 12. Raphael telleth Tobias thus When thou didst pray and Sara thy daughter-in-law I did bring the remembrance of your praiers before the Holy One. First what an Addle-head are you that trump in the Protestants way with this Testimony which your Masters can tell you for happely your ignorance knoweth not so much they esteem of no otherwise than a Talmudicall Tale Secondly how can you accord this Tale with your owne Tenents Raphael both speaketh heer as their Angell-keeper and carrieth himself so in that whole negotiation Raphael was of the highest Hierarchy next to Michael and Gabriel in your account Your selues teach that Angels of that Hierarchie are not Custodes nor imploied vnto men but all imployed ordinarily are of the inferiour and lowest rank Riddle me riddle mee what is this You told vs of one that could vntie knots let him vntie this or cut it in pieces for it troubleth vs not a little That Angell Reuel 8. 4. from whose hands the smoke of incense ascended which is expressed to haue been the prayers of Saints who was he can you tell mee whether the Angell of the Couenant Christ Iesus himself or Michael the Protector of the Church do you knowe or some other Angell are you assured Was his imployment ordinary or extraordinary can any tell Mysticall you may be sure this Passage is and can you draw Arguments from such Testimonies Your great vnderstanding doth happely think Yea the common resolution is for Nay But howsoeuer the praiers of all Saints that is of the Church were offred to God in the hands of an Angell their Mediator therefore All Angels pray for all men or some Angels for some men ordinarily I deny the necessity of this doctrine When you say more you shall heare further but much more I beleeue you cannot for you fail of your wonted Cue See more and See Fathers that affirm it neither Scripture nor Fathers heer In Conclusion from whence drew you forth this imputation that The holy Angels pray not for vs For Bellarmine your Polstar and Cynosura in point of Controuersie doth confesse It is not denied that Sancti and so Angell orant pro nobis saltem in genere secundum Scriptur as And those that assent as most doo aâ— the
and so began to compose my selfe against expected aduersaries of some performance at least But many weekes many months passed eighteene at least and I heard no noise of those Hereticke-quellers my great Masters who cease not yet to call for disputation At length after much expectation vpon the fifth of October last the same partie premised presenteth mee at once with two seuerall presents The one two sheets of Paper written in haste not fully out with two seuerall hands The Scribe was some puny-nouice in euery point of Scrib-ship For neither could hee tell how to vse or dispose his points nor yet how to spell his words I haue the Originall by mee to shew Any man that readeth it will many times be to seeke to make sense or English of it The Dictator if yet the Author and writer were diuided subscribed himselfe yours in Christ Iesus A. P. a silly man God knoweth as euer talked idly of the Catholique Church the head of the Church the Masse Confession and Purgatory For his discourse beside some â—â—urrility without wit or â—artnesse of my Worship Doctorship c. smattered a little but very poorely and at randome vpon these points but concerning or vnto my Propositions 〈◊〉 my quidem Lucilianum the Innocent meant mee no hurt therefore he bit not Marry he had a cleanly put-off for that thus Hee desireth me at my going to London to repaire vnto Master May his house these are my friend A. P. s own words in Holburne in Partridge-alley A man that I neuer knew nor saw nor heard of albus an ater I cold not tell nor happily should haue knowne in hast but by his relation From him I haue it that Hee was not long since a Minister but is now become a Catholique In good time through discontent perhaps or ambition or some such ordinarie motiue of such Turne-coates My imployment thither was for Satisfaction if yet I had beene sure thereof For I had some cause of doubt in that which followeth If hee will not satisfie you at least he will procure some body else If he will not but what if he cannot Then from Partridge-ally I might happily bee posted to Woodcocke-walke and thence flushed to Fooles-wharfe and so returne home as wise as I went out But secondly to preuent or supply the worst beside and with his two sheets of Paper my good friend A. Pe. out of Curtefie addressed vnto me for my better Edification a pretty little whip-iacke of lesse then ordinary assise in a blew iacket marked in the fore-head with A Gagge for the new Gospell whose worship vntill then was as little knowne to me de nomine as was Master Mâ—â— He was sent with this Elogium and Inuitation at least If you please to answere this little booke and so explicate all the places of Scriptures and Fathers which are cited in it it will be a good worke fit for a Doctor of Diuinity here my friend shot at rouers I am not the man for Doctor of Diuinity I am none And I doubt not but by searching out of these points you wil be of another minde as many of your coate haue beene when they went sincerely and for the loue of God and their own soules adde and somewhat else vnto their studies So hee in his missiâ—es of October vnto me Thus briefly as I could I haue related the occasion of my engagement in this gagling with the Gagger Those Papers I answered presently as I thought fit and left the answere to be returned vnto A. P. who promised to call for it within three dayes but came not within threescore as I am informed if yet he haue come for it I cannot tell The Gagge I tooke to taske vpon my returne vnto my bookes at Windsor as meere a gaggler as euer grased vpon a greene Many idle Pamphlets in this very kinde haue I seene in my dayes but a verrier idiota saw I neuer any With a strange opinion of their owne worth are these Catholicks possessed This poore silly Creature thought Himselfe somebody and his Performings no ordinary Aduenture else sure hee would not so haue proscribed his pamphlet the Gagge of the new Gospell which necessarily implyeth thus much Hee hath stopped the months of all Protestants for euer the proudest of them dare not hiscere hereafter against Himselfe or any one of his Lagg but as geese when they goe in at a barne dore or are driuen on by night a long staffe or pole being held ouer them goe without noise or reluctancy holding downe their heads so the appalled Protestants being crest-fallen and cast downe for euer must goe as this Gagger will dispose of them My friend A. P. sic mulus mulum scabit was well perswaded of this mans performance and irresistable ability when hee sent him to me to conuert me being assured I could say little to him no not so much as bough to a Goose as for Answere him it went beyond my possibility For this set the iury consider but for Conuersion no such matter I assure him his assurance hath failed here I am more confirmed then euer I was in my Protestant profession through his insufficiency Nay had I not been a Protestant he would haue made me one through his poore performing of what he had vndertooke vpon view Whatsoeuer he intended whatsoeuer he hath said was by Him and His addressed not against Iohn a Noke and Iohn a Style this man and that man of the Protestant partie not against priuate tenents and peculiar opinions For what hath the world to doe to take publique notice of them as they are singular so let them stand or fall Salus Ecclestae non vertitur in istis the Church will stand and subsist without them but hee driued directly at the Church of England that moate in the eyes of Romish Priests and Iesuites For though he set his booke to saile with generall commendations A briefe abridgement of the errors of the Protestants of our times and so may seeme to enclose our neighbours abroad yet his drift was directly against vs at home against the Doctrine and Discipline of oâ—â— Church Therfore he wrote in the English tongue alone Therefore his addresse is to The Protestants that are in England onely Therefore he talketh of our English translations and in precise words instituteth his Refutation by Expresse words of our owne English Bibles which confine his Gagge to vs alone that are of that Church for English Bibles belong to English men Strangers haue their owne in their owne Mothers tongue they vnderstand not ours which concerne them not at all Now in point of carriage against the Church of England in his Refutation of our Churches errors in gagging vp our mouthes for defence thereof for euer see the small honesty little sincerity and petty performing of this Gagler In all Churches that are or haue beene vnder heauen euen in the Chutch of Rome it selfe at this day notwithstanding the conclusions of the Councell of Trent
their peace for euer This you nor can nor do deny To this day you put it in practise For according to such directions from higher powers The Bibliotheca Saint Patrum was last yeare printed at Cullen Shamelesse Mountebancks that obiect that to others whereof themselues are notoriously guilty But it seemeth this man did as the tale is a wench once gaue her mother counsell to doe A brace of neighbours women by sex scolds by profession falling out after they had passed some ordinary language saith a daughter of one of them to her mother Oh Mother call her where first least she call you so and prooue it Haue you heard of this good counsell I am sure ye follow it to an heire It is your profession to adde diminish alter change to aequiuocate your selues and teach your Authours so to doe notoriously For feare wee should iustly lay it to your charge you preuent vs and cast it in our teeth But play the honest man once in your dayes name where when how by whom this hath beene done I name your selfe guilty of this cousening trick and name for false and ridiculous interpretation the 1. of Saint Luk. 8. 9. and Leuit. 16. 17. in the sixt Proposition For adding to Math. 9 8 in the eleuenth Proposition For diminishing Phil. 2. 30. in the fourteene Proposition Tria are not omnia but enough to shame you if you be not past grace and shame In briefe your whole booke is compacted by this art For 39. of these Propositions are no doctrines of the Church of England those that are are vnfaithfully handled By ambiguity by adding to taking from peruerting of sense and meaning this little Pamphlet is meerely made Detract these particulars not so much will remaine as with a whole impression to stop one mustard pot I shall not need actum agere here I haue discouered your false play in particulars hereafter This is to imploy I â—rowe mans wilinesse if not wisedome to serue the diuell both are bad but yet better it were to employ mans wisedome in stead of the word For true wisedome is of God wheresoeuer or howsoeuer Lying is you haue heard from whom the father of lyes that graund Paedagogue in the Iesuite schooles brought you vp a good Proficient in this faculty you may sing a song of degrees there in medio chori according to your progresse from our twenty seuerall Bibles and their manifold varieties to their more Corruptions and Falsifications to darken and obscure the truth and yet those also handled sophistically and contrary to the mind of all antiquity nor only so but neuer produced without some tricke of adding diminishing or changing by interpretation that the old saying may take hold vpon the Gagger Qui semel verecundiae fines est transgressus eum grauiter oportet esse impudentem Sir know this Our profession is not such as yours is our practise answerable to our profession We protest you say and we doe so indeed that The word of God containeth all that is necessary to saluation Your sarcasticall irony shal not beate vs from it And therein we say no more then Saint Paul in that well knowne place of 2. Tim. 3. 16. 17. The whole Scripture is giuen by inspiration of God and is profitable to teach to improoue to correct and to instruct in righteousnesse that the man of God may bee absolute being made perfect vnto all good workes For to know God in Christ is life eternall Ioh. 17. 3. That is the way vnto and meanes whereby to attaine eternall life The absolute direction for that way is Ioh. 20. 31. These things are written that you might beleeue that Iesus is Christ the Sonne of God and that in beleeuing yee might haue life through his name These are moe texts then one and without adding diminishing or changing ought by interpretation as expresse as words can make them that all things necessary vnto saluation are conteyned in the Scripture Yet farther to be inforced by this reason Saluation is the end of reueiled knowledge from God If that knowledge be not sufficient God is defectiue in proportioning the meanes vnto the end intended which auouch if you can without blasphemy If man adde any thing to it as defectiue or detract from it in the materialls or alter and change it against minde and meaning we may well enquire quo warranto he doth it and condemne his presumption as enormious An Embassadour hath commission and instructions from his penne according to them he must proceede Differ hee must not vpon life nor change the state and tearmes of his direction so farre as to come short of to exceede vpon to be thwart vnto and against the maine of the busines negotiated Explane he may adde detract in words alter phrases or occurrences according as occasions are so he hold the maine and keepe close to the meaning and direct vnto the end of his negotiating still Circumstances sometime may alter much this point discretion must regulate as it may but substances altered make a maine change indeed aliud and aliud not aliter If we say it is not lawfull for men nor Angels to adde diminish or alter ought thereof we meane for the maine and substance of the Gospell we intend not such a precise obseruance as not to say Rites for ceremonies statutes for ordinances Church for congregation and such like or vice versâ And therein we say no more then Saint Paul himselfe hath said in so many words an other expresse text for another point of our false doctrine Gal. 1. 8. Though we or an Angell from heauen preach vnto you otherwise then that which we haue preached vnto you let him be accursed Otherwise so as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thereby to corrupt and abolish the Gospell Now this is not onely when they preach contrary and amolish the whole 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if they alter and change some small obuious thing saith Chrysostome and his reason is The Scriptures were commended to vs by God the Lord of all Men and Angells are but seruants whose commendation is to doe his will This precise obedience hath that warrant yet further It is better to obey God then man If men stand ad oppositum to God But we are not thus perswaded of Antiquity We nor vse them so nor speake so of them We command not our followers vtterly to renounce all antiquity customes multitude humane wisedome iudgements decrees edicts or councells The Councels of Trent of Florence of Laterane are not all Councels We refuse them as factious as bastards as partiaries as hauing nothing but the names of Councels You refuse moe Councels then we doe in the foure first so highly commended by your owne Gregory you presume to prescribe you reiect and retaine what you please We accept them absolutely sans exception We may as well presse you with the Sinods of Gapp and Dort as you vs with Trent and diuers others Edicts and Decrees and Imginents
shall not depart is Gods promise Mans promise reciprocall is I will not depart from them If I depart that is if man faile They may and shall depart God is then free Now this supposed what assurance is there for my words shall not depart c So your first Text is mistaken peraduenture in the meaning but without peraduenture in the allegation It is Esay 5â— 21. not as you tender it from your aduisers 49. 21. And lastly it is to be vnderstood of the Church of the Iewes in particular conuerted vnto Christ as it seemeth by Saint Paul Rom. 11. 26. and not of the Church of the Christians already conuerted and so you misapply as well as mistake But more ridiculously in your second Text Iohn 14. 16. For haue you read or heard that euer any Protestant maintained That the holy Ghost can erre I suppose not I beleeue you are not so much past shame to say so and yet your conclusion is so The spirit of truth cannot erre For hauing recited the Text of the Gospell your illation is Therefore the spirit of truth hath aboade for euer and shall abide for euer with the Church and consequently cannot erre What Sir cannot erre To my vnderstanding The Spirit of Truth cannot erre can you vnderstand it otherwise But let your barbarismes goe by to the point I answer first you faile and that confessedly in your vndertakings It is but consequently the Church cannot erre therefore confessed not expresly Secondly I answer out of the Text it selfe This promise is for comfort not instruction The Comforter shall abide for euer for Christ there spake of affliction which should ensue Thirdly were it punctually for direction we might reioyne It was a temporary promise a personall priuiledge to the Apostles you thought wee would say so belike supposing wee had no other shift silly men like your selfe therefore you come in with by way of preuention But the Apostles themselues could not abide for euer poore foole that knowest not there is duplex aeternum frequent in Scripture Gods euer and mans euer That for euerlasting as God is This for the terme of his being so for euer is thus no more then while you are all the dayes of your life But we seeke no aduantage we will not take it we grant Gods Spirit eternally assistant to the Catholique Church then represented in the Apostles and therefore we admit that you belye vs in your Proposition The Church can erre to be vnderstood of the Catholique Church as is expressed The third Text in order Esay 35. 8. is so farre from expressing the not erring of the Church that it is a question though such a Nouice as you know it not whether it be to be taken of the Church at all Hierome in his Comments expoundeth it of Christ who saith of himselfe Iohn 14. I am the way the truth the life An high way shall be there and a way and it shall be called the way of holinesse the vncleane shall not passe ouer it but it shall be for those The way faring men though fooles shall not erre therein Who told you that this way was the Church why not the Scripture which is also a way and called a way as to my remembrance the Church is not Ibi erit semita via mundissima quae sancta vocabitur c. There shall be a path saith Hierome and a most cleane way which shall be called Holy and which saith of himselfe I am the way by which way the polluted cannot passe where also we reade it spoken in the Psalme Blessed are the vndefiled in the way And this way that is our God shall be vnto vs so direct so plaine so open and champion that no wandring shall be there Fooles and silly men may walke therein vnto whom in the Prouerbs wisdome speaketh thus If there be any little ones let them come vnto me and shee hath spoken vnto the Fooles Come you and eate of my bread Thus Hierome vpon the place Tertullian in 4. against Marcion is indifferent for Christ the head of the Church or Faith in Christ the life of the Church Your Worship Sir Gagger out of your authoritie cast it meerely vpon the Church Satis pro Imperio if you can out-beare it Howsoeuer it is not expresse as it should be Not to purpose if it were expresse our question is not whether fooles can erre but whether the Church can erre The Church hath often beene compared to a Ship and now at last by you made a Ship of Fooles Content so you be Pilot in that Ship Sir Foole. Once at length you rightly bid vs goe see more For the Text of Iohn 16. 13. is more expresse than all the former He shall leade you into all truth But what if this text concerne not truth vpon Earth but Truth in Heauen What becommeth then of your Not erring Augustine and Bede encline that way What if it be personall vnto the Apostles alone not to the Church or their successours Hee will shew you the things to come and I haue many things to say vnto you but you cannot beare them now these such like passages doe more than seeme to conclude it vnto them What if he meant but All things that were necessary and conuenient for them to know so Theophylact Euthymius and others In this sort the Church is eternally directed so the Church directed cannot erre Matth. 18. 17. It is commaunded by authoritie Tell the Church and heare the Church No good proofe the Church cannot erre For the Scribes and Pharises were to be heard and obeyed yet had no assurance of infallibility Kings and Princes are to be obeyed yet haue they fallen into great enormities Ephes 5. 27. the Church is said to be glorious without spot or wrinckle or blame which is to be vnderstood de toâ—o integrato of the parts in Heauen and earth Of the time to come rather than present Without blame yet not without wrinckle euen here for error may be where blame is none Esay 9. 7. the Kingdome of Christ is to be established with iudgement and with iustice for euer and yet I know no such priuiledge annexed to iudgement or iustice of infallibility No more then Ezech. 37. 26. to a Couenant of peace an Euerlasting couenant to multiplying of them or placing Gods Sanctuary amongst them for euer Luk. 22. 32. and Matth. 23. 3. What correspondency haue they one with another not to speake of reference vnto the poynt In the former Peters faith was prayed for that it might not faile and yet Peter denied Christ Iesus If Peter were not the Church what maketh this Text amongst the rabbâ—e If Peter were the Church may erre as Peter fayled though not eternally one or other In the latter the Pharises must be heard And therefore will you say they erred not If they erred as doubtlesse they did then to what purpose are they pretended for not erring of the Church Much good may the
Pharises doe your Church 1 Pet. 2. 9. The Church is styled a chosen generation a royall Priesthood an holy nation a peculiar people glorious titles but nothing to this They cannot erre Iohn 17. 17. Gods word is truth I graunt But is Gods Word euer in the mouth of man The Apostles were sanctified and that in Gods truth according vnto Christs Prayer Yet after this Prayer Peter went not right when Saint Paul reproued him he fell and that foulely in denying Christ That which is sanctified is accepted not euer so sanctified as without spot As for 1 Cor. 11. 25. if the Institution or rather Commemoration of the institution of the holy Communion be a proofe sufficient that the Church cannot erre wee yeeld the cause if nothing to purpose what meant this idle pate to range it heere What the man would say in Psalm 101. 23. 20. or whether hee would send vs after mistaking there I cannot tell and till then I cannot answere For not so much as neere thereabout is ought to purpose of not erring Ephes 2. 20. Wee reade that they were built vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets And what then Could they not erre Dare you say so They could for they haue and are shaken off from that foundation but so long as they stood on fast they erred not holding one Faith one Lord one Baptisme Eph. 4. 5. which if you and we doe at this day by your owne argument auoid it if you can we erre not As for one heart and one soule of the belieuers Act. 4. 32. it is in reference of loue one to another not in vnity of Doctrine all with one another And yet there were differences in that vnion for example sake inter Paul and Barnabas and might be disproportion in their Doctrine as dissimilitude in the habitude and condition of those sheepe in one sheepe-fold vnder one Shepheard and yet all heare the Shepheards voyce Iohn 10. 16. and hee that will not heare some of those Sheepe Luc. 10. 16. be taxed for not regarding the Shepheard when as yet for all that some of those Sheepe be gone astray To conclude The Church cannot erre neither collectiue nor representatiue Thus your Masters distinguish the termes of this question that goe workman-like and not like you clutteringly to worke So they so wee In the largest extent not erre at all Secondly not erre in poynts of Faith For in matters of fact they confesse errour Faith is fundamentall or accessory There none is here error may accrew Fathers to be seene you afford vs none Not because there are none but because your reading could supply none Who take vp all vpon retaile and credit hauing so small store at home The Church cannot erre is most true and the Church may erre is as true each part considered as it ought V. That the Church hath beene hidden and inuisible IT may be some priuate opinions haue runne vpon inuifibility of the Church which are no doctrinall decisions nor to be imputed vnto the resolued Doctrine of the Protestants that are of another minde Nunquam est quod nusquam videtur That which cannot be seene if it be seeable is no where at all nor in being For as Saint Augustine well said Quo modo confidimus ex diuinis liter is accepisse nos Christum manifestum si non accepimus Ecclesiam manifestam How is it possible wee should hope to haue Christ manifest in Scripture except wee haue likewise the Church manifest Therefore on all hands it is resolued the Church hath euer beene visible since there was a Church In England especially how can this fellow impute inuisibility to vs who claime and proue a succession and therefore needes a visibilitie from the time of the Apostles If any doe thinke otherwise or cannot doe this we vndertake no patronage at all of them The Church is a City seated on a Hill which is naturally visible though in a fogge or mist not discerned There euer was and will be a Church vnto whom complaints may be made though the Church doth not euer heare complaints Those that haue fell vpon an inuisibility may perhaps be tollerated if well interpreted and vnderstood For euen the visible Church in her more noble parts may be said to be inuisible First the Saints triumphant and now regnant with Christ are parts of the Church in largest extent Who being in Heauen are vnknowne their persons proprieties and indowments The Saints militant her more excellent parts on Earth according to her more royall indowments the Elect according vnto purpose of Grace are knowne onely vnto God alone the searcher of secrets and decipherer of thoughts Such as be secret occultò intus are there not visible vnto man In this sence in regard of these parts the Church is and is esteemed inuisible and so held euen of the Papists themselues Otherwise then so wee doe not speake of inuisibility So that the man must fall foule with his owne part or be at warre with his owne wits Moderate men on both sides confesse this controuersie may cease Et quamuis praesens haec Ecclesia Romana non parum in morum disciplinae integritate adde etiam in doctrinae sinceritate ab antiquâ illâ vnde orta deriuata est discesserit tamen eodem fundamento doctrinae sacramentorum à Deo institutorum firma semper constitit communionem cum antiquâ illâ indubitatâ Christi Ecclesiâ agnoscit colit Quare alia diuersa ab illâ esse non potest tametsi multis in rebus dissimulis sit Manet enim Christi Ecclesia sponsa quamuis multis erroribus vitijs sponsum suum irritauerit quamdiu à Christo suo sponso non repudietur tametsi multis fâ—agellis ab ipso castigetur As for our Gagger hee is interessed happely otherwise In standeth him in hand to vphold and foment a faction lest for insufficiency otherwise hee turne Host and sell Bottle-Ale That mustie obiection as hee calleth it of Elias may doe him some pleasure at that time I adde no more touching this proposition because it is but lost labour VI. That it is forbidden in holy Scripture the publique seruice of the Church to be in a tongue not vnderstood of all the Assistants NO doubt Contrary to our owne Bibles in such sort that if the Protestants be not gagged now their mouthes are wider than Gargantuaes and their lips somewhat like to Germans that were nine mile asunder Certes neuer so foyled by texts of Scripture since Luther went out to this day Therefore expedite tabulas Chrysippei sophi For heere you haue a singular piece of worke indeede The Church of England directed not onely by the light of Israel the Word of God but also perswaded by common sense and reason hath and hath had her Seruice the publique prayers and Liturgie of the Church in a knowne tongue vnderstood of all that are present there ordinarily This is contrary to their
Church of England doth vnto Angell-keepers will not stand with you for it that orant pro nobis not onely in genere but in particulari Your desire is onely for priuate aduantage to keep a Faction on foot and therefore you flutter in dubious tearms Holy Angels pray not for vs which is or true or false as it may be taken XXV That we may not pray vnto them PRay to them if you like it or to Saint Loiola if you please we cannot hinder you from playing the fools and exposing your selues to bee laughed-at for your labours I say as Iosua sometime said in a case not very much vnlike Call vpon what Saints or Angels you will go serue Baal or Astaroth if you fansie it We in the Church of England will call vnto the Lord of Heauen and Earth by immediate addresse without intercession of Mediators hauing warrant most sufficient by direction and inuitation Psalm 50. 15. Call vpon me in the time of trouble so I will beare thee and deliuer thee Doo you knowe any man so vnaduised that will go about when hee may well go streight or will sue for assistance and that also vncertain when he needeth none Perhaps there is no such great impiety in saying Sancte Laurenti ora pro me but in my opinion till I am better informed it is grand foolery to say Sancta Catharina ora pro me where I may say cum effectu vnto God himself Miserere mei Deus Lord haue mercy vpon me If you might haue accesse vnto his Holinesse at pleasure would you vse the mediation of Cardinall Barberino if there bee any such though the Pope's Nephew I suppose not if you did I say no more but The Vicar of Saint Fooles be your ghostly father But our Bible is against our Doctrine In good time how so For Iacob saith Gen. 48. 16. The Angell which redeemed mee you read deliuereth mee from all euill blesse these Lads where first you bely your owne reading You read Angelus qui er uit me Is that deliuereth in the present Tense in your Grammar It is to all but you in the Time past that hath deliuered Now what such difference that it should bee noted betwixt deliuered and redeemed indeed that hath taken me out Secondly read it how you will it is not to purpose You propose it thus That we may not you proue the lawfulnes quia factum so you may proue theft murder and what not It is a priuate fact of Iacob there related by Moses and the Acts no not of the best men are no rules of actions vnto others We should liue by Precept not by Practice Our Sauiour said not What seest thou but What readest thou But thirdly I will take no such exception I admit it ruleable euery way Iacob did well wee may doo so as Iacob did and yet not pray to Angels Therefore fourthly I answer contradictorily to your inference This is not spoken to but of an Angell secondly not of a created Angel but of Christ Thirdly Christ is a true Angell This Fellow must go learn to speak before hee write what to put in Print before hee publish it to vnderstand Diuinity before he babble in it Is Christ an Angell and not a true one Is he a false or a counterfet Angell in appearance in collusion not in substance Who euer heard such Stuffe from a Priest's lips Christ is an Angell not created a true Angell of an higher alloy Prince of Angels as of men a mighty Angell The Angell of the Couenant And this was spoken of him by the Patriarch Iacob The God of Bethel as hee is called that spake with Iacob in Bethel and met him there who wrastled with him who blessed him who told not his name being secret spoken of him by commemoration not vnto him by inuocation That Angell which deliuered mee blesse these The man had I knowe not how some intimation from some other that we would reply that this Angell heer specified as indeed wee beleeue it was Christ himself and no created Angell and therefore to gag our mouthes hee preuents our answer that in the opinion of Saint Basil Chrysostome and Hierome it was not Christ but a created Angell and therefore who for shame can say he praied not to him Wisely I warrant you as if it could not bee auoyded but he was then prayed vnto because in the opinion of these men hee was a created Angell which is no consequence except it were granted that none but created Angels were to bee prayed vnto on any hand at any time vpon any occasion Now who for shame will thus reason to shame himselfe but hee that eyther is past shame or through ignorance not capable of it It is good to vncase such a Mountebanke that he may be knowne what he is But I go from him to this the point in question These Fathers opined That Angel was not Christ but a created Angel and what then As if as many were not of a contrary opinion But were it not so no more can be collected then this that in some mens opinioÌ„ Iacob spake of a created angel thence in some mens opinion not by any expresse words of our Bibles which we were promised to haue this was not Christ Which if it were so as this Gagger can neuer proue it so I will vndertake against him if hee dare yet wee answer first Then it was Iacobs Guardian at least as Tostatus and Iesuites that I haue seene imagine Now the case of Angels-keepers in point of Aduocation Inuocation is much different from other Angels not Guardians as being continually attendant alway at hand though inuisibly therfore though we might say Sancte Angele Custos ora pro me it followeth not we may say Sancte Gabriel ora pro me But lastly heere is no Inuocation nor Intercession nor praying vnto any Angell Custos or not Custos ordinary or extraordinarily attendant It is a desire directed by Iacob vnto God to send his Angel for that seruice and employment to blesse keep those Lads It is no addresse vnto that Holy Angel whosoeuer he was Which being so so far from express words pretended were not this fellow past all shame he would shame to say Iacob prayed vnto an Angel But of this and this Question elsewhere more at large Thither gang this Gaggler and I shall gag him I am sure in this point of praying vnto Angels and Saints XXVI That the Angels cannot help vs. SEale vp thy Lips for euer thou lying tongue Said euer any Protestant Angels cannot helpe vs Name mee the man that may thus bee blotted or hot burning coles bee thy portion thou Lyer and misborne Elâ—e of the Father of lies It is contrary indeed to expresse words of our owne Bibles not alone in the places rightly produced but many moe and more to purpose then some of these are contrary to sense reason beliefe and experience contrary to our teaching our
Augustine of your owne And doo you mark it that I say your owne for this Saint Augustine is none of mine It is ser 29. in which this passage is not 39 as you mis-report it which is a Counterfet vnder S. Austen's name as the Louanists and other your owne men obserue There is a Commemoration of Saint Peter ' s chain you keep an Holi-day in memory thereof Augusti 1 and yet Saint Peter ' s Chain as Baronius obserueth was not found vntill Saint Augustine was dead Had the man been as he would seem Saint Augustine yet might hee haue been deceiued in his collection as wel as in somewhat else noted by Lorinus that hither tendeth For de Catechis rudib 23. he deliuereth that The shadow of Saint Peter passing along in the streets restored a dead man to life Do you finde this written in your Bibles I suppose not S. Augustine did without doubt in his or how is it that he saith it Therfore the Papists Bible hath left something out aswell as the Protestants Look vnto it and answer it as you can Acts 19. 11 12. And God wrought speciall miracles by the hands of Paul so that from his body were brought vnto the sick handkerchiefs and aprons and the diseases departed from them and the euill spirits went out of them Therfore what Vertue proceeded from Saint Paul when he was dead I deny that for Saint Paul was then aliue and aliues like Therefore this is for the liuing not the dead And yet take mee not so that I deny the thing Vertue may proceed from the true Saints of God dead and aliue I deny your proof and wonder at your wit that can go ab equis ad asinâ—s so easily as if both were fit Inmates for such an Animal as your self Asse Horse you for such prouender S. Chrysostome might very well inferre vpon the passages of Saint Peter and Saint Paul that Christ their Lord and Master was truely God whose seruants in his Name and by his Power nay their shadows and napkins did such wonders for Could any man do so except God were with him But all this winde shakes no corn First this vertue was not inherent onely incident Secondly it was miraculous so peculiar Thirdly it was Then those Times are done those napkins gone into Materia prima Shew such napkins or shadows and wee yeeld For no man doubteth what hath been done or may be done we go no further than to what is See more you so direct vs and wee had need or else we shall see your proofs by halues for hitherto wee haue onely heard of vertue proceeding from the Dead nothing touching keeping of Bones and Reliques Now haue at them or else neuer and indeed neuer for Ioseph's bones were carried by Moses out of Egypt What then Therefore bones of holy men may by warrant of that be digged vp shrined and preserued Happely they may in some cases but not therefore for this was a singular Fact which are no precedents for generall rules One Swallow maketh not Summer nor one Woodcock Winter but among Birds of that Bill and Feather Secondly as it was singular in Fact so speciall in Reason There was a Tie vpon Israel to doo that which they did Ioseph dying had bound them with an oath to do so Had our Lady so bound you for her smock or her milk you were excused Thirdly they carried them thence not to keep them which is your Tenet much less to shrine them or adore them which is your practice but to bury them in the Land of Canaan which they did Ios 24. 32. Doo you in like sort and wee applaud you with your Reliques So we see in this first place no more than wee looked for nothing to purpose nor in the second 2. Reg. 4. 8. Eliseus taketh vp Elias cloak that fell from him and wrapping it together smote the waters of Iordane which parted asunder A Text seeming to say somewhat for Elias cloak is Relictum a Relique to Eliseus and he took it But this is verse 14. not 8. but not yet a Relick for our purpose For what he did with it is not remembred it is like enough Eliseus wore it out We read not what he did with it whether he laid it vp and left it to posterity to be adored vnless you can prooue this you say nothing otherwise in your sense it is no Relique For keeping and adoring is all in all for them But let it be kept Eliseus did no more than I or any Protestant else should haue done For you mistake vs. The Reliques of Saints are not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with vs we dishonour not their garments much lesse their bodies hauing beene the Temples of the holy Ghost beeing againe to bee raised from the dust and be made like Christs glorious body By and in them at sundry times God hath miraculously magnified himselfe in his Power as when the body of Babylas made the Oracle mute in despight of Iulian that Renegado Then especially when there was great cause when Paganisme Persecution Opposition swayed for the manifestation of that Truth which in them by them had beene propagated Shew any such Relique and see what wee say vnto it It is naturall for any man to affect the remembrance or memorials of a friend to admire and make much of rare things not euery day seene Bring mee then a piece of the Crosse of our Sauiour one of the Nailes or some such memoriall of his Passion shew mee Moses Râ—d Saint Peter's Sword I will prize them aboue all the Iewels I can haue Will this content you I know no Protestant will doe lesse then so Worship them I dare not Shew them as you doe I would not as men do monsters in Fleet-street or Sturbridge Faire in this you abuse them too profanely making merchandize of the Word of God In that you profane them to Idolatry misleading the People to adore them This did not Antiquity nor doe wee In the Primitiue Church Memoriae Martyrum were in great esteem The place where they suffred or else where they were buried Heere commonly their Church-meetings were for diuine Seruice for receiuing the Sacraments with commemoration of their Passion and a collation to follow their noble Acts which was seconded with this opinion that those blessed Soules themselues by speciall grace and dispensation of God took notice of that generall Act of the whole Church and accompanied their deuotions with their own best assistance vnto the Maiesty of Heauen But times are changed mens manners altred Those Saints Reliques Memories and Oratories of the true Saints of God gon no where to be found coozening colluding fraud impiety come in place The miracles memories reliques of Saints in your Romane Church are all of them knowne to bee iuggling tricks of deceiuing knaues and if Saint Martin were aliue againe hee might finde out onely one mans Reliques but many thousands to bee the bones of theirs that died at the
sanctifieth but the true employment of the thing We neuer read it warranted that creatures may bee abused or ms-imployed Are they not therefore fooles to returne your owne words vpon your self that produce these passages for such stuffe as holy bread c which as they are vsed in your Antiques may with reason be hooted at by Boyes Holy bread with you is an apish Imitation of that antient practice in the Primitiue Church whereby a part of the consecrated Host in and for the Sacrament called Eulogia was sent vnto the adjoyning parishes or diocesses and imparted vnto strangers that came vnto them as a signe pledge and assurance of mutuall loue and confederation in the same faith a thing prohibited afterward in the councell of Laodicea but re-assumed and long time frequented in the Church which growing at last into disuse in the Latine Church especially Bread began to bee blessed indeed but not consecrated for or in the Communion which in Paulinus Augustine and others is named Eulogia or Panis Catechumenorum The Catecumeni beeing not baptized could not bee imparted with the body of Christ but receiued Bread blessed by the Priest for their vse and eating as an assurance of that Communion whereof in due time they were to be made partakers The later Church abused this practice of the Antients imploying it as spells or amulets to cast out diuils to heale diseases to keepe men from danger whereto nor God nor man had designed it antiently The forme of consecrating it is this in Burchard Cap. 28. Lord God Almighty vouchsafe to blesse this Bread with thy holy and spirituall benediction that it may become health of soule and body vnto all a defence and safegard against all diseases and all the assaults and deceits of the enemie through our Lord Iesus Christ thy Sonne the Bread of Life who came downe from Heauen brought life and saluation into the world who liueth and raigneth with thee for euer Was any thing thus consecrated 1. Tim. 4. 4. Mat. 23. 17. 19 Or any water any where to the like purpose to bee sprinkled in houses to driue away Fayries and Hobgoblins to remoue the lets and impediments which might hinder the receiuing of the Blessed Sacrament of the Altar to put out the guilt and tainture of originall sinne I finde no such thing in Scripture or the Primitiue times I doe in the Rituals and Pontificals of the Pagans Nam et sacris quibusdaminitiantur Isidis alicuius aut Mithrae Ipsos etiam Deos suos lauationibus efferunt villas domos templa totasque vrbes asperginâ— circumlatae aquae expiant passim Tertullian speaketh of Pagan superstitions and it agreeth vnto your fopperies point by point Such hallowing and sacring of the Creature as of ashes bells and other bables are farre enough remooued from that sanctification of the Creature in Saint Paul vnto holy and religious or common vses Saint Paul neuer baptized or blessed a bell to cleere the ayre asswage stormes and tempests help against lightning and thunder driue away diuels and wicked spirits that would hinder good Christians from going to Church or righteous soules from passing through the ayre into Heauen Such old wiues tales I finde not in Saint Paul nor in Saint Basil whom we are directed to see Lib. 2. de baptismo but for what or where-about I professe my ignorance I cannot tell and yet I haue Basil and haue read him Transeat therefore till I know what and where I should see Basil I must suspend my answer vnto his authority XXXIII That children may bee saued by their parents faith without Baptisme THe man when hee vndertook this gagging taske opposed himselfe intentionally against our Church in which regard with what face with what forehead can he thus impudently bely vs knowing in his conscience our Doctrine our practice to the contrary and that wee haue beene put to maintaine and iustifie it against schismaticall humors not Papists but Puritans at home In the very first Instep to the forme of Administration of Baptisme wee professe All men be conceiued and borne in sinne wee adde alledging our Sauiours words None can enter into the Kingdome of God except he bee regenerate and borne anew of water and the holy Ghost Beeing assured that as Truth hath spoken it so it is impossible ordinarily for a man to bee saued that is not baptized Vpon which perswasion of that necessity of water and the holy Ghost wee following the vse and warrant of Antiquity haue tolerated practised and defended priuate Baptisme at home by Lay-people and yet this shamelesse Detractor chargeth vs to hold That children may bee saued by the Parents faith without Baptisme as if it were vnnecessary One man peraduenture thought so that the children of the Faithfull that were in Christ might ordinarily be saued without Baptism I say peraduenture for it appeareth not that he held it of ordinary course nor referred it to the Parents faith but vnto that Couenant of grace I will be thy God and the God of thy Seed as euen Bellarmine his Aduersary confesseth touching him who yet is nothing vnto vs. Touching the necessity of Baptism there hath bin variation euer in the Church and yet euer a necessity held vpon all hands more or lesse For Antiquity supplied the want of water by blood Martyrs not baptized went to heauen The ineuitable want of water by the Spirit in desire and assured faith if it might bee had in Christ the Author and End of it For as in little Infants the faith of the Church and those that present them to be baptized is by God reputed their owne so the willingnes and desire of the same Church of their Godfathers and Parents is reputed theirs So that no absolute necessity in opinion of Antiquity and indispensable was held of our Sauiours Asseueration Except a man bee born anew of water and the holy Ghost he cannot enter into the Kingdome of heauen Which necessity thus qualified by Antiquity some late Writers haue qualified further vpon other grounds as namely that supposed Decree of God touching absolute necessity of saluation which admitted yet includeth a subordination of meanes As Paul and his company were determinately saued from perishing by sea yet he told them it could not be except the Sailers staied so nor Gods Decree be accomplished without means which is water and the holy Ghost ordinarily Others it may be haue qualified it from the state faith and interest of their parents which if it be so is but a priuate opinion of some men not the doctrine of this or any Protestant Church that I knowe You would bee loth to maintain all priuate opinions in the Church of Rome The most that wee haue said thereof is Of the will of God to impart his grace vnto infants without Baptism in that case the very circumstance of their naturall birth may serue as a iust argument Whereupon it is not to be mis-liked that men in charitable presumption do gather a
of the Sonne of man and drink his bloud you haue no life in you Lo without drinking no life euerlasting then poore deceiued Papists what will become of you you shall perish in your sinnes though your bloud shall bee required at the hands of your ignorant or rather deceitufll guides that thus mis-leade you from Christs Institution Luk. 24. 30 35. Christ at Emmaus communicated his disciples vnder one kinde Two things are insisted on out of these words as it appeareth by the laying downe First that this was actio sacra a Communion of the Body of our Sauiour then that it was done vnder one kinde this is taken as granted because there is no mention of drinking of Wine there is made mention of breaking the Bread Ignorants and wilfull take things amisse an ordinary Hebrew phrase it is in the Scriptures to eat bread to break bread for to eat and drink to take a refection or repast This man imagineth that all their meales were sicca conuiuia altogether without any liquor nor Wine nor Water vsed though in hot countries Such a foole would haue no other answer made vnto him but as Arisotle would haue made to him that should deny motion or that hee should neuer drink at his meales the best answer could possibly be made vnto him That it was actio sacra and not communis our Sauiour did celebrate the Communion of his Body and Bloud though I know it is controuerted for my part I will not contend at present I know it is held so by Augustine Theophylact and I adde too Beda and Hierome with others but take heede of the Precedent for if hee communicated onely Bread then I know not what vse of Wine at all there will bee in the blessed Sacrament For these were peraduenture of his Apostles but without all question of his Disciples and so had interest in the Cup if any had at all See more wee cannot Acts 2. 42. then we haue seene already mention made of breaking of Bread which is not exclusiue from drinking of Wine no more then 1. Cor. 11. 13. drinking doth exclude eating at all Poore shifts for Sacriledge and impiety of late made an Article of faith in the Church of Rome He that instituted the one ordained the other ioyntly both and at the same time with all circumstances alike if any aduantage is it is for Drink not for Eat For Drink you all of this saith the Author of the Sacrament hee saith not expresly Eat you all of this as foreseeing that impiety which in time humane presumption should bring-in vpon and against his owne institution fulfilled in the Church of Rome at this day XXXVII That Sacramental vnction is not to bee vsed to the sick VSe it if you will wee hinder you not nor much care or enquire what effects ensue vpon it but obtrude it not on vs or vnto the Church as in Censu of the Sacraments of the time of Grace as Baptisme is held and the Lords Supper Visible signes of inuisible Grace Powerfull instruments ordained by God to work in our Soules eternall Life by conueighing the meanes thereof vnto them Sacramental vnction call it if you please so farre as in the writings of the antient Fathers all Articles peculiar vnto our Christian faith and beliefe are sometime called Sacraments all duties of religious piety vnto God all diuine and Ecclesiasticall ceremonies are named Sacraments in which sense you might reckon not seuen but seuenscore if you were disposed to make a search for Sacraments In the Apostolicall and Primitiue Church it was a custome to anoint the sick with oyle to pray ouer them and so commit them vnto God This Saint Iames remembreth 5. 4. Is any sick among you Let him call for the Elders of the Church and let them pray ouer him anointing him with oyle in the name of the Lord. The Apostle doth not call it a Sacrament Sacramentall vnction as the Thesis proposeth and which is that should bee expresly prooued Our Bibles say the sick were anointed but not our Bibles nor theirs doe say that this anointing was a Sacrament And Fathers wee are not sent to see that proue it so the place is not to purpose as it is proposed Mar. 6. 13. is a Text defacto They anointed with oyle many that were sick and healed them but de iure there is not a word in that Text whether yea or no this Anointing should bee a Sacrament The Master of controuersies confesseth himselfe that it is not accorded whether in this Text or not Sacramentall vnction was instituted and himselfe is of opinion that it is not grounding on the resolution of the Councell of Trent to which all Papists are tyed to subscribe and yeeld and how dare you bring this as a proofe Now say the truth Sir Goose and shame the diuell How plain are these Texts that set your great Directors together by the ears Where were your sick wits that did not aduise you Take heed of falling foule with the Councel of Trent the cynosura of your faith Sure they were made of the pappe of an apple so easily they squeeze themselues out to nothing your great Dictators haue found hitherto but one direct Text Iames 5. 4. can we think your sharp sight should spy out three more a Fox or a Fearne-bush somewhat or nothing for Mat. 16. 18. Acts 28. 8. nor oyle nor vnction is remembred bare imposition of hands vpon the sick and diseased so that wee stand in some possibility heerafter to haue added an eightth Sacrament to the former seauen XXXVIII That no interior grace is giuen by the imposition of hands in the Sacrament of holy orders THis indeed is contrary vnto the expresse words of our Bible and therefore directly contrary to our Opinion Doctrine and Practice Can this fellowe bee so ignorant as not to know or rather so impudent as to deny that in giuing of holy orders we vse those memorable formall words of our Sauiour Receiue the holy Ghost Was euer man made Minister in the Church of England but in that sort with that forme Can hee deny that wee not onely practise it but propugne it command it to bevsed enquire of and punish the neglect opposition and contempt thereof What shall wee say to such a base detracting Varlet as shameth not in view of heauen and earth to deny the Sun shineth at noone-day Romane Catholiques I admire your patience that suffer such Hog-rubbers to leade you by the nose and make you beleeue the snowe is black Poore deceiued Soules trust no such Merchants that would sell you to the diuell for a morsell of bread and make you stand out vpon tearms of Separation for their owne aduantages against the Church as Schismaticks in which you liue and haue beene baptized XXXIX That Priests and other religious Persons or any others who haue vowed their chastity vnto God may freely marry notwithstanding their vowes TOuching marriage of Ministers this is our Doctrine resolued