Selected quad for the lemma: heaven_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
heaven_n	church_n	earth_n	militant_a	5,036	5	12.4963	5	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A13773	Positions lately held by the L. Du Perron, Bishop of Eureux, against the sufficiency and perfection of the scriptures maintaning the necessitie and authoritie of vnwritten traditions. Verie learnedly answered and confuted by D. Daniell Tillenus, Professor of Diuinitie in the Vniuersitie of Sedan. VVith a defence of the sufficiency and perfection of the holy scriptures by the same author. Faithfully translated.	Tilenus, Daniel, 1563-1633.; Du Perron, Jacques Davy, 1556-1618. Discours sur l'autorité.; Tilenus, Daniel, 1563-1633. Defence of the sufficiency and perfection of the holy scripture. aut	1606 (1606)	STC 24071; ESTC S101997	143,995	256

neuer tooke the liberty to ordaine any thing of his owne head not so much as in policie or ciuil gouernement He answereth that this is false obiecting vnto me the historie of Iethro will say that Moses practised the counsell that Iethro gaue him touching the establishmēt of Iudges ouer the people of Israell without any approbation from God which is one of the boldest falshoodes can bee made and such as hee is wont falsly to obiect vnto others For to conuince it do but see the text where the common latine translation saith If thou doe this thing thou shalt fulfil the commaundement of God Exod. 18 23 and the Hebrew If thou dost this thing and if God so commaund thee thou maist bee able to endure Now we grant that if we had alwaies such persons as the Apostles were or as Moses and the Prophets vnder the Lawe were for to instruct vs in euery point and not such as may leade millions of soules together into hell Dist 4● si Papa as the Pope doth and may doe by vertue of his owne lawes We should not haue so much occasion to keepe our selues so strictly tyed to the Scripture though notwithstanding Act. 17 the first Christians examined the preaching of the Apostles by the Scripture of the old Testament by which themselues also prooued it though they had an immediate calling an infallible certainty and an incomparable authority but these gifts of God beeing but for a time for the beginnings and foundation of the Christian Church and we being aduertised by the Holy Ghost of the comming of wolues of false Prophets that shal rise vp in the middest of the Church We conclude that it is most necessary to keepe vs to their writings and that it is more dangerous to say Act. 20. ● 30. 1 Pet. 2. that they haue not written whatsoeuer is necessarie for vs than to say that they haue not taught all by word of mouth to euery particular Church for returning often to visite them that which they had not said at one time they might adde and supply it at another for which there would be no more any remedie after their death if wee found not in their writings that which is necessarie for our saluation And therefore though the points aboue prooued by Moses were not conteined in his writings yea though Moses had written nothing at all yet could not that any thing at all helpe the Bishop of Eureux his cause vnlesse hee shew first that the traditions of the Romish Church are naturally engrauen in the hearts of men as the immortalitie of the soule And secōdly that in al the Christian Church spread throughout all the nations of the world god had established the same form touching the oeconomie and gouernment and the dispensation of his mysteries as was established among this people only conducted by Moses afterwards taught by the Prophets extraordinarily raised vp immediately sent during the ordinary ministery of the Leuitical Priesthood And therfore since that the curate of euery particular Church that acknowledgeth the Pope 〈◊〉 ver 3 ● in the 〈◊〉 representeth the catholick Church as say the Doctours of the Romish Church it is to be beleeued that the grossest beast so that he beare the marke of the beast of Rome is holden in like estimation indued with the same gifts as was Moses Isaiah S. Paule For saith the B. of Eureux the Church is so assisted with the spirit of God according to the promises of Christ her spouse that whether it bee for grace or for interpretation of this word he neuer suffereth it to fal into errour And therupon he reproacheth me that I vnderstand not the meaning of this proposition The Church cannot err in matters of Saluation Let the Christian Reader iudge how I vnderstand it If we take this word Church for the vniuersall Church the bodie of Christ wherof part is tryūphant in heauen part stil militant on earth both being vnited to their head by the power of his spirit that proposition is most true If on the contrarie the Church be taken but for that part which is scattered on earth I say it is most false For that which is subiect to infirmitie to imperfection to errour and ignorance in euery one of his parts cannot make a whole which is perfect But there is not a man that sinneth not 〈◊〉 ●8 46. ●2 〈◊〉 13.9 ●4 7. saith Salomon and Saint Iames all of vs knowe but in part and Prophesie but in part Neither is there any one member which hath not neede to take euery day groweth according to the measure of the gift of Christ So that all the promises of the Spouse to the Church are to bee vnderstoode of that which hee daily worketh and encreaseth in his not of that which is alreadie perfected and finished And Du Perrons conclusion is no lesse false and vnapt than this GOD saith hee hath promised vs the beginning the progresse and the end therefore wee haue the end at the same instant as we haue the beginning The titles of perfection which are some times attributed to the children of GOD setteth before them rather the marke whereat they should ayme than any waies imprinteth in them an opinion of hauing already attained it So we cal a building a House thogh it be not yet finished If this perfection were wholly attained to there would remaine no more any thing to be builded and the power of God should not bee made perfect in our weaknes Iesus Christ washeth and cleanseth his Church euery day but it shall not be wholy cleane without spot or wrinkle till the day of the Lambes mariage when the Bridegrome shall bring his Spouse into his celestiall chamber Wee acknowledge the perpetuall assistance of Gods Spirit to his Church which is the soule of the Church and giueth spirituall life thereunto But life is one thing and perfect health without any infirmity is another thing It is one thing to haue a natural operation which is euer done after a fashion in which there is some necessitie an other thing to haue a-voluntarie operation which is done at discretion with liberty the holy Ghost assisteth the Church so far forth as to giue it life which is a thing wholy necessary for the accōplishmēt of the promises of her husband Christ for if the Spirit did in this sort faile the Church the Church would also faile Iesus Christ but this life this light of grace doth not abolish that of nature which is in euery mēber of the Church which maketh it often to faint to faile to fall though neuer vtterly to fall away The holy Ghost gouerneth it as well as reason gouerneth the will in man But as the will doth often swarue frō reason yet without loosing it wholy or altogither 1. Tim. 3.1 so the Church swarueth often from the spirit which notwithstanding doth not wholy forsake it for all that The Church remaineth also

can not bring them and put them into his armes visiblye and corporally Gal 3 ● Rom. 6 and the scripture teacheth that they which are baptized doo put on christ and are ingrafted into his body it followeth therefore that it is by this meanes that we shold bring them present them vnto him And Iesus christ sanctifieth and cleanseth by water in his word all those for whome he gaue himselfe to death Eph. 5 Now he dyed as well for children as for others seeing that the kingdome of heauen belongeth vnto them It followeth therfore that he sanctifieth and cleanseth them by the washing of water in his word 8 39 And saint Peter hauing sayd that euery one should be baptized for remission of sins and they should receiue the holy Ghost addeth This promise is made to you and to your children The similitude of the ceremonies of the Paschall Lambe whereupon hee groundeth his correspondency of Analogy perswadeth vs as litle as his reasons inforce vs. For all the ceremonies commaunded in the first institution of the Passeouer 2 were not literally fulfilled among the Iews especially in their yearly Passeouer As to eate it their loyns girt theyr shoos on their feet and a staffe in their hand which ceremony Du Perron should not ioyne with that of the sowr hearbs seing it was not of the number of the ordinary and belonged onely to the Passeouer celebrated in Egypt As also the ceremony of not going foorth of doors till morning And therefore our sauiour Christ celebrating the Passeouer transgressed not the law written in sitting at table and going foorth into the garden Besides the Paschall Lamb as J sayd aboue was rather a figure of the onely Sacrifice of Iesus Christ ● 7 0 4 ● 0. 2 17 who is the accomplishment of the Law and the body of all the shadows and ceremonies If there were question made of finding some correspondency betweene the ceremonies of Circumcision and the ceremonies that the Church of Rome hath added to Baptisme the B. of Eureux would be able to find therein as little Analogy as Identity The B. of Eureux The third argument is taken from the Actes where Saint Peter saith that hauing seene the holy Ghost come down on them that heard the word in the house of Cornelius he could not deny them Baptisme seeing they had receiued the same grace Wherof they conclude those that are capable of the same grace are capable of the same signe Now little children are capable of the same grace they are therefore capable of the same sign To which without standing to reply that in the olld Testament weomen are capable of the same grace and not of the same signe We may answer for the Anabaptists that those which are capable of the same grace and in the same manner or fashion are capable of the same signe But those that are capable of the same grace in diuers manners are not therefore for all that capable of the same signe Now little children will the Anabaptists say are capable indeed of the same grace as those that bee of age but not in the same manner for those of age are capable of grace by theyr owne personall faith and little children by their parents faith which is imputed vnto them And therfore to the former is requisite a Baptism proper and personall and to the others sufficeth the imputatiue Baptisme of their parents it being a thing reasonable that Baptisme do follow the quality of faith whereof it is a Sacrament And this answer serueth for all argumentes of like nature namely that little children are parte of the Church are capable of the kingdome of heauen whereof baptisme is the gate and entrance For after the same manner as they are capable of it that is to say no otherwise then by an imputed faith and not personall Baptisme would they say is communicated vnto them So that as they beleeue in the faith of their parents vntill they bee capable of a personall faith so are they Baptized in the Baptisme of their parentes till they bee baptized with a personall Baptisme namely when they are come to yeares of discretion and knowledge To these three reasons they adde a little light coniecture of that which Saint Paul said that he baptized the houshoulde of Stephan out of which they conclude that little children may he baptized Which argument is lame on both sides For first they must proue that there were little children in the houshold of Stephan which the scripture dooth not shew and secondly that those litle children were particularly baptized For although there had bin little children in that hous yet this witnes of S. Paul of hauing baptized the houshold of Stephan could for al that conclude nothing for them vnles there had bin expresse mention made that they were particularly baptized For one may always answer that in that he baptized the house of Steph is as much to say as he baptised all those that wer capable of Baptisme in that house As when it is sayd in Saint Iohn of the Ruler 53 Credidit ipse domus eius tota It can not be sayd that the little children in the cradle if there were any did beleeue but those who for their yeares were capable of beleefe Contrarywise to shew that this obiection of the house of Stephan in which is no testimony that there was any little children is far from making anything for them the Anabaptists replie that in the conuersion of Samaria by S. Phillip in which it cannot be doubted but that the conuerted parents had little children in the cradle the scripture euidently specifieth that Baptisabantur viri ac mulieres without making mention of little children D. Tillenus his answer Our third argument which he alledgeth is taken from the 10. of the Acts where saint Peter ordaineth Baptism to them that had receiued the Holy Ghost whence we conclude that they which are capable of the same grace are capable of the same signe And seeing that children are capable of the same grace of regeneration they cannot be vncapable of baptism which is the sign therof The same speculation which his answers conteineth if they were of any weight might haue had place as well against the Circumcision of little children and seeing that the different measure of grace did not depriue them of the signe in like manner ours ought not to be depriued of it The Scripture saith 11.12 that the Gentiles because they were not receiued into the couenant of Circumcision were without Christ without hope without God and strangers from the Couenants of promise The same Scripture sheweth vs that Baptism hath succeeded Circumcision Shall we then repute our children for straungers from the couenaunts of promise Shall we holld them only for children of the first Adam that is for children of wrath subiect to the curse for flesh and blood which cannot possesse the kingdom of heauen without bringing them to the second

chance some water is cast seeing they want the chiefe and principall condition which maketh a man be a matter and subiect capable of Baptisme namely Fayth That they that are Baptized as saith Saint Paule haue put on Christ That Christ cannot bee put on out of the Church which is called the fullnes of Christ that therfore Baptisme cannot be among hereticks That euery one of you sayth Saint Peter be Baptized for remission of sinnes And the Creed of Constantinople I beleeue one Baptisme for remission of sinnes Now among the haereticks there is no remission of sinnes For the Keyes were giuen to the Church and by consequent no Baptisme that when it was tolde Iohn Baptist that Christ Baptized he answered none can doe it vnles it be giuen him from heauen that no authority is giuen from heauen to the assemblies of hereticks and therefore that they cannot Baptize That Baptisme is done by the power of the holy Ghost that the holy Ghost is not resident out of the Church neither consequently Baptisme D. Tillenus his answer First I answere that the hearers of the Scripture learne that whosoeuer is Baptised in the name of the father of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost is well Baptised But the followers of the Romish tradition can neuer know whether they be well baptized or no For besides this instituti of Christ the Church of Rome requireth the intent of the Priest without which the Sacrament with thē is none Now there is no man that can be fully assured of another mans intent Secondly the scripture teacheth vs the difference betweene the outward sacrament the inward grace which is not inclosed within the other as a salue in a box as the Romish Tradition teacheth They that receiue the first receiue not alwaies the latter in what place soeuer it be as we see by the example of Iudas Symō Magus For as saith S. Augustine 〈◊〉 5. de ●ont 〈◊〉 24 mē do put on Christ sōtimes in participatiō of the sacramēt somtimes in sanctification of life the first is common to good and bad the other is peculiar onely to the good Neither hereticks nor orthodoxall can minister any thing but the outward sacrament the holy ghost onely giueth the internall grace that is fayth possessiō of Christ remissiō of sinnes All which is manifest in scripture But the Holy-ghost saith he is resident onely in the true Church and not among hereticks 2. J answere the scripture teacheth vs that the spirit blowes where it listeth if it were allwaies tyed to a visible church as the Pope to his seate of Rome ● 8 without distributing his graces elsewhere which is du Perrons meaning No infidell nor heretick borne out of the true church could euer enter thereinto by regeneration by which grace the holy ghost bringeth men thereunto 〈◊〉 17 Saint Paul persecuted the true Church so farre was hee from being a member of the same receiued notwithstanding the holy ghost out of the visible church Therfore it is not to speake properly the minister that giueth Baptisme but as the Scripture sayeth the heauenly father saueth vs by the washing of Regeneration through the renewing of the Holy Ghost 〈◊〉 5. 5 26 ● 1 16. Iesus Christ cleanseth sanctifieth his Church through the washing of water in his word And as the word of the Gospell when it is published according to the reuelation of God to saluation to all that beleeue though he that preacheth it do it of euill will without sincerity without zeale of enuy cōtentiō as saith the Apostle that is though he haue no good intent So is it in the Sacrament which is a visible word so that the minister confer it according to the Lords institutiō his heresy or hypocrisy cannot hurt him that receiueth it For the question is not what is required in a pastour to approue his Ministery before God but what is requisit to the efficacy of the sacramēt according to the truth of god which the scripture teacheth vs cānot be made voyde by the wickednes of men To which S Augustine agreeth saying that not only the good but also the wicked haue the ministery to Baptise but neither of thē both haue the power of baptism that Christ hath committed the ministery thereof to seruants but reserueth the power thereof to himselfe Thirdly J say that the scripture sheweth vs the correspondency of circumcision with Baptisme Ezech 1 23. Therfore as the circūcision giuen by the Apostataes of Samaria was availeable to the children that God acknowledged for his there being no need of reiterating it so as the Samaritans did reiterate that which had ben administred by the Iews as Epiphanius witnesseth So by like reason should not Baptism administred by a heretick be reiterate prouided that he keep the substāce of the institution The Prophets indeed do exhort the Samaritanes to repētance but neuer cal thē to a secōd circumcisiō though the first wer polluted by many abuses superstitiōs The Bishop of Eureux Against these Arguments with greate apparāce of scripture S. Augustine who 10 whole years hādled this question against the Donatists could not find any actuall and demonstratine proof in the scripture for the doctrine of the Church in this poynt and could oppose vnto them no other thing that would hold the place of an infallible proofe but the tradition authority of the Church Hoc saith he obseruandum est in rebus quod obseruat Ecclesia Dei Questio autem inter vos nos est vera sit Ecclesia Dei ergo à capite sumendum exordiū cur schisma feceritis And in another place 〈◊〉 Proinde quamvis huius rei certè de Scripturis Canonicis non proferatur exemplum earundem tamen Scripturarum etiam in hac re a nobis tenetur veritas cum hoc facimus quod vniuersae iam placuit Ecclesiae quam ipsarum Scripturarum commendat autoritas vt quando S. Scriptura fallere non potest quisquis falli metuit huius obscuritate quaestionis eandem ecclesiam de illa consulat quam sine vlla ambiguitate S. Scriptura demonstrat And in another place Bap. ●on Sed illa consuetudo quam etiam tunc hominem sursum versum respicientes non videbant â posterioribus restitutam recte ab Apostolis tradita creditur Et talia multa sunt quae longum esset repetere Now saint Augustine declareth that the opinion of the Donatists was hereticall and the whole Church with him holdeth the Donatists for hereticks and our aduersaries themselues As also it must needs bee that either the Catholikes or the Donatists be hereticks For if Baptisme administred by hereticks bee not true Baptisme the Catholickes which receiue them without Baptizing thē doe violate this article One Fayth one Baptisme Also I beleeue one Baptisme for remission of sinnes If on the contrary it be true Baptisme the Donatists in rebaptizing them and reiterating and multiplying