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heaven_n bread_n life_n manna_n 4,497 5 12.2368 5 true
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A40227 The papists strength, principles, and doctrines (which they are sworn to preach, from the Councel of Trent, by the Popes authority, and after confirmed by the last General Assembly at Rouen, 1571, all which they have sworn to perform) answered and confuted furthermore their principles and doctrines answered and confuted, as they were laid down in two or three severall papers, by R.W. papist, lately sent from Holland : also a challenge to the pope and all his adherents to choose out of all his dominions some cardinals, fryers, or Jesuits to try their bread and wine, after consecration (by watching on their side and on our side) to prove that if afterward they have consecrated it, whether the bread and wine doth not loose its taste and savour, and so not the body and blood of Christ : also a paper to all them that fast and afflict themselves who are in the will-worship and voluntary humility : also some quæries to all the papists upon earth to be answered in writing and sent to them, which all sects upon the earth call Quakers / by George Fox. Fox, George, 1624-1691.; Howgill, Francis, 1618-1669. 1658 (1658) Wing F1877; ESTC R3577 83,037 105

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Spirit of God And are the wolves in sheeps clothing worrying the Lambs that comes to witness Christ in them the substance and hath proved and examined themselves and found him and so there people sticking in that they call the sign and keeping people from the substance receiving Christ Jesus in them for these things was to be done in remembrance of Christ until he came now if bread and wine be the body of Christ and his bloud then he is come how do you that in remembrance of him untill he come was they to eate his body and drink his bloud till he come did he go away in the Spirit and leave his body behind answer this whether or no his body did not rise and whether his body be elementary there was a Protestant against you that said the body of Christ was corruptible and you said the bread and wine is the body and bloud of Christ and that will corrupt and so we see you all in the error Pr. He saith the bare form of bread and wine doth change And though the light lead up to Christ they see nothing but that which doth change namely bread and wine Answ. Hear thou hast confounded thy self and all the Papists the whole body of them and confounded your own wisdom and knowledge and your own faith in things you do professe fo● the body of Christ and his bloud doth not change and yet you say that bread and wine after consecration is the very body and bloud of Christ and hear you say doth change which is not comparable to the body and bloud of Christ that corrupts not nor changes not in this you have confounded your selves and blinded your souls in looking at things which are seen which the Divel and wicked ones out of the light do run into which you poor Creatures are captivated under his power things that are not seen are invisible but things that are seen as bread and wine are visible Pr. Our faith and doctrine is that Jesus Christ hath but one body and that the same body which is in that Sacrament shall come at last to judge us all Answ. The body of Christ which you call the bread after consecration which thou hast confessed is a changeable thing the ●orm of bread that which is changeable is not a judge Christ and his body is not changeable so therefore to judge and shall remain his body when bread and wine ceases So in this thou hast overthrown your own doctrine and faith and foundation and proved your selves to be stones of Babylon who with them builds up and throwes down again Pr. Whereas thou Queriest whether God is able to make one body to be in two or two thousand places at once Answ. The body of Christ is his flesh which he gives for the life of the world which they that eat it and feed upon it are of his flesh and lives for ever and are in more places then one comes to be of his flesh and of his bone and at this the Jewes stumbled that followed him for temporal bread and if temporal bread had been the body of Christ why would he bid them labour not for the meat that perisheth and that he said well in saying this is may body this is my bloud and except ye eat my flesh and drink my b●●ud ye have no life in you but he did not tell the people after they had consecrated bread and wine that it was his body and bloud and he would drink with them in the Kingdom and did Christ eate his own body and drink his own bloud answer these Queries we see that the body of Christ is hid from you all Papists and Protestants and his flesh and his bloud and his word● are spirit and life and that remains and bread and wine it is the elements did it come down from above from heaven after you have consecrated it is it not the wine that came of the grapes and the bread which was baked Christs body which is the bread is above the Manna which is given from heaven much more far above the bread of man Christ the true bread far above Angles-food is the body of Christ which who eates it lives for ever they that eated the Manna the Angels-food perished in the wildernesse many of them and far above mans bread that 's temporal and drink which they may eate and drink and hunger and thurst again and perish and which will perish Which they that decernes the Lords body decernes him that gives every creature its being the word of God by which all things was made and none of the figures nor shadowes nor types are the body of Christ but that which ends them all to you that is the word of the Lord which body was before they were which body is the Church the Piller and ground of truth and bread is not the Church after consecration for the Apostles never told us of that doctrine no vvhere in the Scriptures but you that of the body of Christ be ignorant the Top-stone is laid on your heads and the body of Christ makes us free from the Lavv Pr. We do not teach that bread after the consecration is the flesh of Christ but we say that after Christ had uttered these words this is my body or after the Priests according to Christs command do this in remembrance of me do utter the same words which we call consecration then the substance of bread vanisheth and is no more there but the body of Christ commeth in its place Answ. This again is confusion and you are confused and confounded in your own principles if the bread and wine which you say is not the flesh of Christ after consecration how is his body there and how can you say it is his body And thus you confound your selves Pr. Thou saist thou dost not find any expresse command of the Apostle in Scripture for observing of dayes nor meats nor none of these things as meats or crosses but what the Church shall command and saith but the Church hath commanded us to observe dayes and meats and that a crosse should be made in remembrance of Christs passion and the Images of Christ and his Saints may be set up and honored and that we should invoke the Saints c. and whatsoever the Church commandeth us And this is the sure and unmoveable ground upon which our Catholique faith even to the very least circumstance and ceremony is built c. And the contrary ground is the ground of all Hereticks Answ. We do believe you that all these observing of meats dayes and crosses is set up by your Churches command and all your Tythes Priests Pulpits and Temples amongst you and the Protestants which hath been set up by your Church command which is offended if they be not observed which is set up since the dayes of the Apostles which is Apostatized from the Apostles and the true Church in the Apostacy and are fallen into schisms and
such which Peter speakes of to be in Corahs Cains Balaams way so your fruits declares and thus you are contrary to Christ and the Apostles and true Church separated from them and such as the Apostle declares against hath made up your Church Have not you been the first birth of the Devil since the dayes of the Apostles Murderers and killers about formes and traditions and Images and outward Churches and Ministers made by mens wills is not Cains fruits the vagabond from God appeared among you murderers destroyers Did the Apostles kill slay and burn had they their Inquisitions like you and do not you all wear Cains mark and Balaams mark on your foreheads and the Devils colours the murderer that is out of Truth has not his flagge been hung out among you All that denies your Religion and worshipping your Images Crosses and all your Ministers made by the will of men and Temples made with mens hands its death by fire Inquisition or Wracks and the devil is he that destroyes the creatures but the power of God destroyes him lets up the soul and brings the creature into liberty Christ saith My body I will give for the life of the World And Christ saith He is from above and he is not earthly The first man is of the earth earthly So after you have consecrated your bread and wine if you will come to an open tryall and proof that may openly bee proved and seen whether or no your bread and wine is not below after consecration and will waste and consume which Christ his flesh sees no corruption his body is the Church and is bread and wine after you have consecrated it the Church or do you call your selves the Church at Rome or do you call your selves the body of Christ do you call the very bread and wine the very body and blood of Christ after you have consecrated i● and so the very Church and then where are you the Church and have you not set bread and wine over you and you s●y Christs body was humane that 's the first Adam earthly the second is the Lord from heaven and after you have consecrated Bread and Wine if it be humane that signifies earthly that shews the creatures as they were before your consecration and so not the body of Christ and as oft as you do eat this bread and drink this cup y● do shew forth the Lords death till he come That signifies that he and his body was not present for where his body is there needs no representation for it was in the night in which he was betrayed that he gave them the cup for remembrance and do you take it in the night and follow the practise of Christ and his Disciples which is in remembrance of him which is the cup of the New Testament in his blood This do as oft as ye do it in remembrance of me This was in the night Now the Apostle bid the Corinthians that the end of the world was come to examine themselves and prove their own selves that they might know their own selves how that Jesus Christ was in them except they were reprobates and if Christ was in them what need they to have bread and wine to put them in Remembrance of him Friend 1 WHo was the first Author or setter forth of all your Pictures your Crosses your Crucifixes your Images and what was their names seeing that the Apostles and Teachers and Ministers did not set forth such things in the Church but witnessed against Idols and that they might keep themselves from Idols and that they were not to look at things that were seen as in the Epistles of John and to the Corinthians And are not images pictures crucifixes crosses things that be seen And the things that are seen are temporall but the things that are not seen are eternall and is not it which set up these things that which denyed the power of God 2 How is it that you set up Tythes seeing that the Apostle witnessed against the Priest-hood that took tythes and said the Law was changed and the commandement disannulled that gave them And though Abraham gave tythes to Melchisedeck the similitude the son of God is come the end of the similitude and likenesse and who was the first beginner of them amongst you 3 Who was the first Author that gave ye the commands for the observing of dayes holy dayes Saints dayes seeing the Apopostle and the Saints which were in the true Church brought the Saints off days yea the days which God had commanded to Christ the substance and said there was not any name under heaven by which a man should be saved but his name and what they were to do they were to do in the name of Christ And when they cryed Paul Apollo or Cephas he rebuked them are not all you come under rebuke now that are crying up names days meats drinks which the Kingdom of Heaven stands not in and so has lost the power and the substance 4 Where did Christ or the Apostles command in the Scripture or the Church practiced that such things forementioned should be done or come after them shew me by Scripture Now if you say that Solomon had a Temple and there were images and an Ark and an Altar those were but figures they were not the substance and when the substance came they ceased Now what does all your dayes crosses crucifixes tythes type forth and who commanded them shew by Scripture where ever Christ or the Apostles commanded any such thing as a Crucifix as a Crosse as Tythes as a Temple as an Altar outward or to pray by Beads shew by the Scriptures where ever the true Apostles true Church or Christians practised any such things or that any such things were amongst them or said that any such things should come after them answer me by plain Scriptures 5 May not a man give all his goods away to the poor and his body to be burned and what will that profit him if he have not love yea love to enemies And how can you love them when you bring them to your Inquisitions or burn or imprison them kill or banish them Now mark are not you of that sect that the Apostle speaks of that may give all your goods away to the poor and your bodies to be burned and yet nothing not having love And what differs your love from that love that may give your goods away and bodies to be burned and yet not have true love And do not you think that you gain by that now and do inherit some righteousness for it and is not that all out of the true righteousnesse which is out of the true love Now the love of God and Christ which was in the Apostles was to love enemies Now if you love your sect and them that be of your worship and observes your customes and burn and prison and kill others that be not of your sect and judgement and observes your customes