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A87231 The Quakers quaking: or, the foundation of their deceit shaken, by scripture, reason, their own mouthes at several conferences. By all which will appear, that their quaking, ministery, doctrine, and lives, is a meer deceit, and themselves proved to be the great impostors of these latter times: / by Jeremiah Ives. Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674. 1656 (1656) Wing I1103; Thomason E883_3; ESTC R207296 36,620 64

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14 15. And Luke calls Theophilus Luk. 1.3 Most Noble Theophilus And Christ himself bids his Disciples Not to covet the uppermost rooms at feasts lest a MORE HONORABLE person come in and then they be bid sit lower Luke 14.8 By all this you may see that though we must not respect persons in Judgement or do any thing for a rich man because he is rich without respect had to the equity of the cause or give flattering Titles to men to whom it is not due as to call one Master and say I am his Servant when I owe him no service yet this doth not hinder but a man may and ought to acknowledge himself a Servant when he is really and truly so And though it be flattery to give Titles that are not due yet it is a duty to give them where and when they are due Seventhly they are not Infallible as they pretend This I prove because if one propose a question to one of them he shall give one answer propose the same to another he shall give another answer quite contrary to the former and so if you shall go on to a fourth or fifth not one of five nay I dare say not one of ten shall give the same answer with the first and yet sometimes these men do make the harmony that is among them an argument that they are infallible when no Trumpet that sounds forth any thing of Religion to the world gives a more uncertain sound then theirs And truly I know nothing wherein they were ever so well agreed as they were office at their Meetings in Kent wherein they all agreed to meet together many times and said nothings Truly if this dumb spirit had alwayes been among them it had been happy for many thousand souls in this Nation who are now miserably deluded with their fair words Eighthly I shall further prove in opposition to another Errour of theirs That Christ had and yet hath another Body besides his Church And my first Argument is this viz. If Christ had a Body that was broken for his Church then he had a Body besides the Church But he had a Body that was broken for his Church Ergo. The major is unquestionable or else Christ gave the Church to be broken for the Church if he had no Body besides the Church which is absurd The minor is proved from Matth. 26.26 Luke 22.19 where Christ saith of his Body that it was broken for them By this you may see these men either cannot or will not distinguish between the Body of Christ which is glorified in the Heavens and the Church of Christ which is his Mystical Body upon Earth and who if they continue faithful shall have their vile bodies made like unto his glorious body according to that of the Apostle Phil. 3.21 Thus Reader thou hast an account of a sew of those many vain Errours that are profest by this generation of men who go up and down to subvert whole houses and congregations and to pervert the right and straight wayes of the Lord. But I hope the Lord will put a stop to these mens careers that they may proceed no further that their folly may be made manifest unto all that every one may take heed that he be not led away wit the errour of the wicked and fall from his own stedfastness I shall now proceed to shew the Reader that these conceits though they are newly risen among us yet they were such wherewith the Churches of Christ have been pester'd even in the Primitive Times and that not onely in the dayes of the Apostles but in the Ages following wherein men did rise up and say They were sent of God and afterwards grew into such Blasphemous Opinions as these men are now fallen into some saying They are the Eternal Judges of the World others saying The Day of Judgement is past Others saying They have Divine Revelations others saying They are Christs and That they are the Way the Truth and the Life c. And that these men do agree with most of the Hereticks both Ancient and Modern I shall mention some few among the rest As first they have affinity with Hymeneus and Philetus who said That the Resurrection was past already 1 Tim. 2.18 in that they as I have already shewn say The Day of Judgement is past already Secondly they have affinity with the Gnostici which said They knew all things See Epiphan Haeres 26. So say these men and thereupon one of them namely Farnworth being asked If he knew what two men spake one to another being apart from them he answered That though he did know yet he was not bound to answer the question because saith he it is an unbeliever that asketh it Again they agree with the fore-cited Hereticks inasmuch as they taught That Christ did not take flesh really but in a figure so say these for one of them being asked this question answers That Christ was but a figure See Sauls Errand to Damascus pag. 54. Thirdly they have affinity with the Manichees whose Ring-leader Manes call'd himself The Comforter and said He was Christ Euseb lib. 7. cap. 30. So do some of their Teachers saying They are the Way Truth and Life Fourthly they have affinity with the great Heretick Seleucus who denied the Humanity of Christ to be in Heaven and Water-baptism He lived in the time of Theodosius Magnus See August lib. de Haeres Both which Errours are maintained by the Quakers though they are repugnant to holy Scriptures Fifthly they have affinity with the Papists in the great Master-veins of Popery As 1. the Papists do introduce all their vain conceits by this Maxime That the Church cannot Erre and from thence it is that the Quakers do usher in all their Dreams viz. That they are perfect and cannot erre 2. The Papists do make the writings of their General Councels of equal Authority with holy Scripture So do the Quakers make their pernicious Pamphlets And at this they exceed the Papists for the Papist will not say That none of their Priests have erred neither will they say That the Writings of any particular man except the Pope is Infallible but these Quakers say That their Writings are of equal Authority with hely Scriptures although they are the private conceptions of either particular men or womens brains 3. They agree with the Papist Priests in that they would make the outside of their conversations an argument to demonstrate the truth of their Apostolical sending In like manner as I have formerly said James Nayler and Boroughs and divers others of their false Apostles being asked How they could prove they were sent of God answered That their lives did make it manifest because they denied themselves in point of Apparel c. By this it appears that the Quakers are compounded with most of the grossest Errours that the Church of old were incumbred withall Sixthly and lastly they do in many of their fore-mentioned Errours agree with their lorefathers
lay out hundreds of pounds to print so many Books when the world if your Doctrine be true might have known as much without them 9. Whether this is not as great superfluity and prodigality as wearing any thing that is not needful viz. your paying great Rents for places to meet and preach in when you say you know so much by the Light within you as you need no Teacher as appears by a Book of James Nayler's call'd A Discovery of the first Wisdome pag. 8. where he makes it the character of the first man or carnal man to know God by relation from others either by word or writing And to this purpose they apply 1 John 2.27 and Heb. 8.11 and in thee same page he makes it a note of a Spiritual man that he knows God from his dwelling-place and not by relation from others c. 10. Whether there is not the like vanity in your spending your precious Times and Moneys to go about the countreys if the Light which is within the countreys could have shewed them the same things without you 11. Whether you would not count it as vain a thing as wearing any thing that is needless is counted by you if any of you should be at great cost to carry a Bushel of coals to Newcastle where there is coals enow already 12. Whether the Moneys that is thus needlesly laid out would not be better bestowed where is more need viz. upon the hungry and the naked The fifth Error I shall name is 5 Error That there was one Jo Lawson accused for saying The day of Judgement was past which he in stead of disowning of the charge goes about to prove it from Matth. 12.20 and saith not one word touching the untruth of it See a Book of theirs called Sauls Errand to Damascus pag. 35. where you have that very Errour objected against them with their answer to it I should not have charged this Errour upon them all it being but the writing and the saying of one man did not all of them received and own it as appears by the printing of it in a book wherein many of them are concerned Now is not this a consequent of that devilish Doctrine taught by Hymeneus and Philetus which said that the Resurrection was already past and destroy the Faith of some 2 Tim. 2.17 18. For if the Judgement-day be past already Resurrection that goes before Judgement must be also past The sixth Errour I shall name is That George Fox 6 Error whom all of them own professeth himself to be the Eternal Judge of the World and being charged with it by the Petitioners of the County of Lancaster makes no denial of any part of the Charge but saith The Saints shall judge the World See pag. 6. of a book of theirs call'd Sauls Errand to Damascus The seventh Errour I shall mention is That George Fox 7 Error whom they all own said He was the Way the Truth and the Life and being charged with this by the Petitioners aforesaid he denies not a syllable of it though it is observable that many things that the said persons do object they in their Replies do deny that ever they said so yet to this he makes no denyal but saith The Old-Man cannot indure to hear the New-Man speak which is Christ. This you may finde to be his answer in pag. 7. of Sauls Errand to Damascus The eighth Errour I shall charge them with 8 Error is That the said Fox said That he which took a place of Scripture and made a Sermon of it or from it was a Conjurer and his preaching was Conjuration This he is charged with by the men aforesaid and in his printed answer denies not one syllable but saith He that raiseth the Spirit out of the Letter is a Conjurer * See p. 7. of the last mentioned Book First doth not the Scripture say Acts 8. that from that place of Scripture which the Eunuch was reading i. e viz. Philip preached unto him Jesus and did not the Eunuch reade the Letter and did not Philip preach the Christ was not that the Spirit as your selves notion it and yet you say They that raise the Spirit out of the Letter are Conjurers Oh horrible Profaneness The ninth Errour is 9 Error that being charged with saying The Scriptures are carnall In the book and page last mentioned he answers The Letter of the Scripture is carnall How now George what is the Letter of the Scripture carnal and do not you tell the people that you walk according to them But why should you walk after a carnal Rule since you profess to be such a Spiritual man But by this the world may see if their Candle be not put out that this cunning Fox can run with the Hare and hold with the Hound In the ninth page of the last mentioned Book 10 Error one Leonard Hill is charged with saying Christ had no body but his Church which he denies not but saith There is one Body and one Spirit even as ye are called The eleventh Errour is 11 Error That John Lawson said pag. 35. of Sauls Errand to Damascus that he had been in Hell but now was in Heaven Of this he is charged and denies it not but cites that place out of the second of Jonah where Jonah saith Out of the belly of Hell he cryed to the Lord Doth this prove Lauson was ever in this Hell or in any other but he may come there before he thinks of it if he repent not and his Heaven he is in will not shelter him The twelfth Errour is 12 Error That they say they are perfect and sin not See a Book of theirs in answer to Hen Haggar and Tho Pollard pag. 9. where they charge the men aforesaid for lying because they said The Quakers boast of perfection and yet in the same page they say They own perfection but do not boast of it Oh strange What that men should be telling and preaching of their perfection and in print proclaim they own it and yet call men Lyers for saying that they loast of it I pray resolve me this Question If any man should by word or writing or both publish his estate to the world that he is thus and thus rich would not your selves call him a proud boaster especially if he shall boast of that he never had and that you do so I shall make it manifest in due place The thirteenth Errour is that James Nayler said 13 Error that None can come to God nor Christ but they that come to perfection See Naylers Book call'd Love to the Lost pag. 23. If this be true Paul was not come to God nor Christ for he saith Phil. 3.12 Not as though I had already attained or were already PERFECT And in the seventh of the Romans the same Apostle saith once and again That sin did dwell in him and doth not Christ call sinners to come unto him