bee framed also for that the principall and as it were the partes of the whole in respecte of this worlde as are heauen water earth are by our senses themselues perceiued to bee sphericall and rounde vnto whiche it is credible that the compasse of the whole worlde is semblable Howe bee it I can affirme nothinge certeinly therof since although wee admit that this part whiche is neerest vnto vs the lowermost of the circūference of the high heauen which wee beehold and which enuironeth althing be bending holow round notwithstandinge it maye bee imagined that the farthermoste and highermoste parte of the same circūference is of some other forme and I knowe ther bee some that haue saide that the vttermoste and farthermost part of heauen is shaped like a bell S. But in the Prophecic of Isay it is said that heauen is stretched foorthe and sprede abroade like a webbe or a curteine Isay the 40. chapter and 22. verse wherevnto also accordeth that which is written in the 104. Psalme and 2. verse wherfore it is like to a plaine whiche fourme is quite contrarie to a circle For a circle turneth about alwayes in his owne rowmeth M ▪ Uerily both the places which you haue alleaged declareth not the forme but the vttermost top or ende of world which therfore is said by God so to be stretched abroad and to couer the earth both that men may the more commodiously dwell vnder it as it were vnder a most beutifull and wide rough whereof it commeth that wee French men call all such couerings heauen and in our countrey language vn ciell and also to the intente that this is a veile beeinge sprede beefore mens eies they maye bee restrayned from the ouercurious and deepe entring into and searchinge after the secretes and misteries of God. S. But since the same holy Scripture hath plainly distinguished the higher place frō the lower in this worlde as in Isay the 55. chapter the 9. and 10. verses it cannot then seeme to bee sphericall or round For in a circle no part can bee called high or lowe forasmuch as all lines which are drawne from the center to the circumference are equall and the circumference it selfe which way soeuer it stande is alwaye vpwarde and in the higher place M. Of this wee will speake afterwarde and that more at large But nowe to set downe so much as shall bee sufficient to take all doubt out of your minde vnderstande thus much That by the rules of the mathematicians there bee indeede and are noted these positions of the higher and lower place and that they are indeede distinguished one from an other For the middle of the circle which they call the center is the lower place and downewarde and the circumference which is the vpper line which beeinge hollowe and meetyng togither conteineth the whole rounde space within the circle is the higher place and vpwarde so that in that these positions and kindes of places and differences are found in the world you may conclude that which you would to wit that the whole receite of this worlde is not sphericall and rounde The xiiii Chapter Whether the worlde haue one onely soule S. NOW forasmuch as this world is but one onely and since it is finite is it gouerned by some one speciallsoule onely whiche is dispersed throughout euerie parte thereof as it were in the members as wee see the soule to bee in a mans bodie M. That this whole world hath a soule and that one onely certain Philosophers of noble fame haue long since bene of opinion ▪ as Aristotle certayne other whose opinion hath hee folowed who wrote in this maner Firste heauen and earth and of the seas that flitring feeldes and fines These glorious starres this glistringe globe of Moone so bright that shines One liuely soule there is that feedes them all with breath of loue One minde throughe all these members mixt this mightie masse doth moue But this is not so much a solemne sentēce or saying as it is a great errour as S. Augustine teacheth in his booke against Felicia Aria ▪ the 12. Chapter S. Why so M. Bicause those bodies which are conteined within the gouenrment of one spirite and one soule are all one not diuided as is the bodie of euery one of vs not separate one from an other as a flocke and not one touching or neere ioyning to an other as are the fingers of a mans hande houses that stande one close to an other As for the parts of this bodie which wee call the worlde they are not onely distinguished one frō an other but separated also diuided frō thēselues by distāce of space For euery sheepe euery horse euery tree euery particulare mā is a part of this world yet are they so deuided by place mole of body and by circumscription of distance that it cannot bee saide that all and euerye one of these haue one soule onely For what would come to passe if it were imagined that in deed there were one onely soule and spirite in all these thinges For sooth this absurditie That the soule which is a certein simple nature and altogither spirituall were to be diuided as bodily things are and not by imagination onely Neither can this inconueniēce bee auoyded seeinge that those thinges in which that onely and singulare soule is conteined are in truth separate and diuided by place and determined euerye one of them by circumscription of their owne bodye Moreouer it shoulde folowe that all the partes of the world had life as the Sunne the moone the starres the heauē it selfe yea all the celestial bodies which notwithstanding S. Augustine moste plainely denieth in hys booke against Priscillia the 8. 9. Chapters that thys opinion of S. Augustine against the Mamches is true the effect prooueth For who woulde euer affirme that the starres had lyfe or reason Finally since of the partes of the worlde some bee mortall as brute beastes and certeine immortall as men howe can it bee that this singulare and one onely soule of the whole world can admit in it selfe qualities and conditions so contrarie and repugnaunt one to an other that it shoulde bee one parte of it mortall and another immortall specially beeing it selfe singulare one and simple not double and compounded Moreouer amonge such thinges as die someperyshe verie soone as wormes and flies some continue verie long as Ceder trees the Crowe and the Heart by this reckonyng it cummeth to passe that this soule of the world which notwithstanding in these mens opinion is onely one and in number singulare and a lone may bee called partly dead and partly a liue All which how foolish false and repugnant they bee you see S. I see indeede and I agree with you in that you doe moste truely deny that there is one onely soule and that in number singulare of this whole world M. Yea farther beesides the reasons aboue recited wee will lastly alleage this
that spirite discribed as it were by a certaine wagging and moouing of himselfe and breathing foorth of a winde M. Bicause the signification of the presence and action of the Holy Ghost is expressed by thys moouing breathing like as in an other place the Doue was the signification of the presence of the same holy spirite Mathew the 3. chapter and 16. verse In an other place also the firie tongues were seales and signes of his operation and giftes ▪ Actes the 1. Chapter And in an other place also blowinge and breathinge out of the mouth Ihon the 20. Chapter and 22. verse Although the same Spirite of God which is GOD also is not a winde indeede howbeeit his woorking is signified and noted by this misterie of moouing breathing for hee is a quickninge Spirite and lyfe is specially knowne by wagginge and moouinge and discerned from death which is an euerlasting and senselesse quietnes of all thinges So that it is sufficiently declared by that kinde of the misterie to what end the spirit of God was present and also what hee did to wit hee gaue force vnto thinges S. But why did that spirite remaine vppon the vppermost face of the waters for asmuch as Moses sayde not that the water was created beefore and hee mighte also haue lyen in the middes of this mole and so haue warmed and susteyned the whole masse within as it were leauen or a fire M. That the water was created by God at one time with the first earth Moses declareth sufficiently when he addeth by and by and darkenesse was vpon the face of the deapths that is to saye vpon the mole of waters And these woordes doe declare that both those elements made but the mole of one bodye whiche truely at the firste was disordred consisted of them twaine togither herein ther can consist no doubt But why that force and spirite of GOD did specially appeare in the top of the waters that is to say of the whole mole and not in the bottom or middes the reason is this not that it did not pearce also vnto the very deapthes but susteined onely the vppermost face of the mole for the Spirite of God reached at that time euen vnto Hell. Psalme 139. the 5. verse filled also with his power and went throughout euery parte of this mole were it neuer so secret hiddē but forasmuch as it pleased God that all these thinges shoulde so bee extant and doone to the ende his power shoulde bee manifest open and easie to bee knowne not hid and couered ▪ it was behouefull that his misterie and tokens should appeare and showe themselues in the vppermoste parte and openly not in the bottome of the whole mole or in the middest thereof that is to saye in secrete and out of fight Moreouer it was necessarie that the same spirite shoulde compasse and nourish the whole mole and not one parte onely whiche came to passe by the houering and moouing of the same Spirite about the whole mole S. Why doth hee call them earth water and heauen whiche were not yet distinct by that name or separated by their proper natures for they were so called the daies followyng after that these thinges were diuided one from another M. As for heauen God had made it at that time and it was called heauen but the Etymon and cause of the name is vnderstoode by the latter woorkes whiche was the stretching foorth and the woorkmanship of the second day And thus are thei termed heauen and earth by anticipation leste if these bodies were signified by no names the thinge it self could not bee declared Beesides this inasmuch as these thinges are also afterward called by their owne proper names it is a signe that there is none other substance added vntoo them but the same reteined which was in them when as yet they were confused but onely beautie added whereby they were dinstinguished from other thinges of diuerse kindes and also made more beautifull in themselues S. What doe you allowe and renue the opinion of Anaxagoras who thincketh that in the beeginninge all things were mingled togither and that euery thing was made one of an other and termeth the firste beginninge of all thinges but a distinction and separation out of a certain confused heape wherin they were beefore M. No not so for I doe not saye that within the same mole of earth whereof I doe now dispute there were hidden and buried trees alreadye framed men fourmed or cattell and beastes shapen and that they were couered and infoulded within certeine plightes and fouldes and so were extant as Anaxagoras thought but Moses confuteth this who sheweth that those things which were brought forth the daies following were made and not onely seuered neither taken and separated as it were out of a certeine heape and stoarehouse of all thinges Howebeeit I maye truely saye with Sainct Augustine that the seedes of all thinges were at the first yea and that throughly infused into that first matter which seedes were not diuerse from the substance of the earth and yet laye hidden within the bowels thereof but the earth beeing made apt by the woorde and woorking of the Spirite did afterwarde bringe foorth those thinges which it pleased God shoulde bee in the worlde To conclude howe shoulde wee bringe in this Anaxagoras confusion since wee reade so playnely in the holy Scripture that the matter of heauenly thinges is diuerse and separated from the matter of earthly thinges And as I suppose that heauen which as it is written God made the fyrst daye when he made the earth was the matter of all heauenly thinges The xxvi Chapter Of the matter of heauenly thinges that are visible S. BUT what shall wee thynke of that fyrst Heauen whiche was the matter of heauenly thinges M. That it was not this place whiche is called the aire or this open spreadyng abroade whiche was created the seconde daie Genesis the 1. chapter and 8. verse but rather that the matter of heauenly thynges was by God prepared whiche by a generall name is called heauen S. What maner of thyng was that heauen whiche you call the matter of heauenly thynges M. Uerely firste it was obscure and darcke although it were made of a moste subtile and fine substaunce but vnshapen and disorder not trimme to sight nor separated by space or distaunce of place from the mole of earth and water as it appeareth in the 1. Chapter of Genesis and 6. verse but was as yet neere vnto it and touched it S. What was it needfull also that the heauenly matter should bee stieped in the water as the earthly was to the ende that the heauēly bodies should afterward bee made thereof M. Fie for shame Wee read not that those heauenly bodies to wit the Sunne the Moone the starres and all that whiche is called the region of heauen whiche God hath placed aboue the elementes were so made out of heauen as the earthly were made out of the
earth For like as it is said in the 1. chap. and 11. verse of Genesis Let the earth bring foorth euery greene hearbe that beareth seede and let the water bring foorth fish the 1. chap. of Genesis and 20. verse so is it not likewise written and comaunded by God let heauen bring foorth the Sunne and the Moone but onely thus Let there bee lightes in the face of the open heauen Genesis the 1. chapter and 14. verse Whereby it sufficiently appeareth that the firste Heauen was not in suche manner the matter of heauenly things as it were a certein plentiful and frutefull Father of them neither that the matter of heauenly thinges was so ordeined as the earth was appointed by GOD too bee the matter and mother of earthly thinges S. Why would the Lorde haue thinges so diuersly to bee made out of those matters and that heauenly thinges should not bee made out of heauen as well as the earthly are out of the earth M. Not onely for this cause that like as they were made by hym of diuerse matter and differing in kinde although they bee all partakers of bodie so likewise it beehooued them to declare their vse and execute their duetie in diuerse maner too the ende their difference might bee vnderstoode and perceiued but also that God might reueale vntoo vs the better his mightie power and also his manifolde wisedome in so greate varietie of bringing foorth thinges So likewise in the framing of man onely God hath vsed one meane in creating his bodie and another his soule and by those meanes continually createth and maketh them notwithstanding that hee is able to make them both by one meane The. xxvii Chapter What is the fourme of the worlde S. HEthertoo concernyng the matter of the worlde saie sumwhat now if you can touchyng the fourme thereof M. I will doe so S. What therefore is the fourme of this so greate a woorke M. There cannot bee one onely and that substantiall thereof assigned For as I haue shewed beefore it is not possible that there should bee one onely and particulare soule of all the worlde whiche beeyng dispersed throughout euerie parte of the bodie thereof should wag stirre and mooue this so hugie frame and mole whatsheuer the Aristotelians and Platonikes doe suppose Likewise S. Augustine in his 7. booke de Genesiad Literam and 12. chapter doeth iustly deney that GOD is the soule of this worlde as of some liuing creature forasmuche as hee dwelleth aboue the bodie of the worlde and aboue euery Spirite and stretcheth beeyonde the endes of the whole worlde But God hath giuen vnto euery kinde his proper nature and forme ▪ whiche are disputed of in speciall treatises which are written of euery kinde of thyng As for roundenesse whiche some attribute to the worlde as the naturall fourme thereof it ought not too bee counted or called the inward or essentiall forme of the worlde but onely the outward and accidentall S. But dooeth not the Scripture attribute vnto the world partes and differences of situation as it were to a liuyng creature and countries and regions also distinct one from another M. It doeth so indeede but notwithstanding it prooueth not that there is but one and theself same fourme spirite and soule beelongyng to this worlde and that it is a liuyng creature S. Why so M. For forasmuche as there bee three kindes of bodies and ioynynges in composition one simple and continuall as a man the seconde ioyned and touchyng one another as an whole house the third disioyned as a flocke it is truely saied that euery kinde of bodie as it were a certeine whole thyng hath euermore some partes into whiche it is deuided and also sundrie differences of place and situation whiche may bee noted in it howbeeit euery kinde of bodie is not gouerned by one soule onely or one Spirite or one fourme but that onely whiche wee termed beefore simple and continuall as euery one of vs for example The xxviii Of the partes of the world and first of the Ethereall and Elementare region S. WHiche then bee the principall partes of the world whereof the scripture maketh mention M. They are of sundrie kindes For some bee integral which are the partes constituting the whole world whiche wee terme substanciall othersome distinguishing it onely and limited by reason of certeine vses and commodities S. Whiche are the integrall and constituting partes of the world M. There are briefly twayne for the most part proposed by the Scripture to wit the heauen and earth as it appeareth to the Colossians the 1. chapter and 16. verse and Genesis the 1. chap. and 2. verse and Isay the 1. chap. and 1. verse and in other places almost infinite although in Genesis the 49. cha and 25. verse heauen and the deapthes bee also reckned S. What did the Scripture then conteine vnder the name of heauen M. All that region of this world whiche is called by the Philosophers Ethereall and conteineth the celestiall and vnengendred bodies which continue and are not chaunged since the first day of their creation as sayth S. Peter 2. of Peter the 3. chapter and 4. verse S. And what vnder the name of the earth M. Not onelye this bodye and element whiche wee properly call the earth but also that whole region of this world whiche by the Philosophers is termed Elementare which conteineth in it such bodies as are engendred and are continually subiect to alteration S. Doe these twoo regions differ M. Yea very much both in name and effect In name for that the first is called heauen and this latter parte of the worlde is tearmed by the name of the elementes yea and that by the scripture For S. Peter in the 2. Epistle the 3. Chapter the 10. and 14. verses distinguisheth these words Heauen and y Elementes In effect for that this endureth and continueth in the old state the other is dayly chaunged and at one time is engendred and at an other tyme perisheth The first God hath reserued to himselfe the other hee hath giuen to the vse of man Psalme 115. and 16. verse The first as wee are taught shall perishe at the latter day but with sinale noyse and a lyght flashe of flame for that it consisteth of a fine and subtill nature but the other shall burne with great heat and bee dissolued with mightie rage of fyre eeuen in such sorte as looke how it hapeneth in our earthly material fire whē it flameth the stickes crack smoke sende foorth a vapour which proceedeth from the moyst partes therof so it is saide that the elementes shall glowe with heat and melt for that they are of an hard thick and clammie nature and not pure and cleane This difference also may bee obserued betwene the two partes of the worlde that the thinges which are in the first are the efficient principall causes of those thinges that are engendred in the other But the thinges that are in the second
face and foremoste part of the worlde M. Bicause like as our senses specially our eyes and countenance are placed in the face and foremoste part of the man so dooeth the light first rise vnto vs from that part of the worlde Whereby it commeth to passe that al men turne their countenances thither yea the brute beastes also of the fielde who in the mornynges as thei feede in the Medowes doe turne themselues towardes the risyng of the Sunne for light Thus by verie instinct of Nature all thynges doe acknowledge and confesse that this parte of the worlde is as it were the face eyes and fore part of the worlde S. Me thinkes that these thyngs in the worlde are distinguished rather in respect of vs than of Nature M. Truely the worlde is distinguished indeede specially in respecte of vs For in a circle properly and of it self nothyng can bee saied to bee on the right hande nothyng on the left nothyng beefore nothyng beehinde forasmuche as all partes of the circumference in that kinde of figure are equally placed And therefore Arnobius saieth well in his 4. booke The worlde of it owne nature hath neither right hande neither left neither high regions neither lowe neither beefore neither beehinde For whatsoeuer is rouÌ„d hath neither beginning neither ending And therfore when we say this countrie is on the right hande this on the left we speake it not in respecte of the worlde but of the place where wee ourselues are situate and dwelâ—yng This farre Arnobius Whereby it appeareth how foolishe and without grounde that opinion of the auncient Hetruscane Southsaiers is who iudged that lefte hande lightnyng lefte hand birde fliyng lette hande signes of heauen are of nature more fortunate than those whiche appeared in any other parte of the worlde For that whiche is on the lefte hande to mee maie bee on the right hande to you because these differences of place and situation are chaunged by the diuerse respecte and reason of men S. What doth the Scripture also note high and low in the worlde M. Yea plainely S. Where M. In the 11. chapte of Iob the 8. and 9. verses and Exodue the 20. chapter and 4. verse S. Is there then some place of the world high and some lowe M. The whole region of heaueÌ„ is called high and aboue and the earth lowe and beneath S. How proue you that M. Out of the aboue recited places of Iob Exodus whervnto also you may adde if you please the 6. verse of the 10. chapter to the Romaines and Deut. the 5. chapter and 8. verse and almost infinite other like places as Isay the 44. chapter and 23. verse and Prouerbes the 25. chapter and 1. verse S. But tell mee is it so of nature or consisteth it onely in the opinion of men that one parte of the worlde is high and another lowe M. Of nature surely for those thinges that are lyght do naturally tende vpwarde and goe towardes heauen and the thinges that are heauie downwarde and towardes the earth Moreouer if we consider the order of thinges God hath thus appointed that those higher thinges shall woorke vpoon these lower For heauen woorketh vppon these earthly thinges and wee perceiue the influences and effectes thereof diuersely and either it bringeth foorthe or distroyeth manye things vpon the earth as it were with to much rain or drought Wherefore Heauen both by nature of the place and also situation is higher than the earth Howbeit concerning this poinet S. Augustine grauely disputeth in the 83. booke and 29. question For hee demaundeth this question whether in this vniuersalitie and world which is conteined within a circulare fourme sumthing may bee called high and sumthing lowe seeinge all the partes thereof consist in equall situation M. Concerning the circumfereÌ„ce of a circle perhaps this question may bee demaunded which indeed was S. Augustines meaning whether the one part thereof bee high an other lowe for in truth in respect of themselues thei are al of equall situatioÌ„ But touching the thinges themselues which are comprehended within the Circle thys question is cleere and out of doubte For in euery circle the circumfereÌ„ce is the vpper part therof the centre the lower vnto which parte those thinges whiche come neerest of lowest like as those highest that are neerest to the circumference of the circle S. Which is the middle parte of the worlde M. The midest of the worlde may bee doubly considered either in respect of substance or of place Whiche the great Philosopher Plutarche first obserued in his booke of the contrarietie of the Stoikes The midds of the worlde in respect of substance is not some oâ—e certein body but many as y aier water with other that â—â—â—e partly of the nature of heauen and partly of the earth But the midds in respect of place is the earth as it is agreed vpon by those that holde opinion that the compasse and capablenesse of the world is of a round and sphericall figure For as they affirme the earth standeth in stead of a centre in coÌ„parison of the whole world Touching which opinion although they contende against it which dency that there bee any Antipodes or dwellers on the otherside of the earth right against vs as Lactantius and S. Augustine good and allowed auctours haue doone yet is it more true and credible that there are such Antipodes the rather for that there can bee nothing alleaged out of the Scriptures to confyrme the auctoritie of Lactantius and S. Augustine by and also reason plainely prooueth it to bee true to wit the situation of countries and the eleuation of the Poales The. xxxi Chapter The cheif end of the creation of the world is the glory and knowledge of God the creatour S. HEthertoo you haue declared the efficient materiall and formall cause of the world it remaineth also that you say sumwhat of the fourth whiche is the finall cause concernyng whiche I demaunde this question of you what is the finall cause of the creation of the worlde as the scripture noteth M. You did well to adde that clause as the Scripture noteth For there is none among the Philosophers except onely Plato and Trimegistus that although they wounder at the worlde doeth declare notwithstanding for what cause it was made and what is the ende of the creating or now subsisting thereof No not Aristotle himself although hee wroate about 30. sundry bookes more or lesse concerning the nature of thinges which bookes are extant at this day and tossed in all mens handes S. Tell mee therefore what is the ende of the creating and conseruyng of the world M. To speake breifly eeuen the euerlasting and immortall GOD himsef for the acknowledging and setting foorth of whose glorie it was created S. How prooue you that M. Not onely for that Father Ireneus writeth so in his 2 booke and 64. chap. but bicause the spirite of God teacheth vs so For firste the holy Scripture sheweth plainlye that
principles and causes of their beeyng and compoundyng And likewise that is the Generall part of naturall Philosophie which sheweth vs the generall maner and order of preseruyng and increasyng of all thynges beecause it deliuereth vnto vs all thynges in generall And these poinctes for the more part are comprehended in the first chapiter of Genesis S. Whiche is then the Particulare part M. That whiche diligently setteth doune the peculiare natures operations properties and effectes of euery kinde which are seuerally distinguished in these created and visible thynges as for example What is the Nature of a Man what of an Horse what of euery kinde of liuyng Creature with the operations also of Trees and Hearbes These thynges are partly conteined in the rules of Phisick and partly also in those treatises whiche by the Auctours thereof are intitled by the names of Histories of liuyng thynges and of Plantes and suche like certaine partes whereof and sparkes are founde shinyng heere and there dispersed in holie Scripture as it were beautifull precious stones Howbeit the whole historie general discourse of these thinges is not conteined in the Scripture since that Salomons Bookes whiche were written copiously of the Nature of all thynges are through the negligence of men perished ¶ The seconde Chapiter Whether Naturall Philosophie bee meete for a Christian S. IS there any profite in Naturall Philosophie M. Yea manifolde But that I may not run ouer them all for thei are almoste infinite I wil alledge fiue onely The first is that thereby wee knowe God not onely to bee the Creator of all thinges but also to bee euerlasting omnipotent and mercifull c. The seconde that by it wee learne the thynges that are created with their operations and natures The third for that therein wee see ourselues and perceiue what wee are of what thynges and partes wee consist and eche part of ours that is to saie what maner of thing our Soule is and what likewise is the state and condition of our bodie which all men do confesse to bee the best profitabliest moste excellēt knowledge of all other The iiii that wonderyng at in our myndes and beholdyng with our eyes these woorkes of God so greate so many so wonderfull beyng thervnto holpē by none other meanes than by this Arte wee are with greate zeale and affection stirred vp to set foorth the won̄derfull praises of God and to giue him thankes Whiche thing happened also vnto Galene yea although he were a prophane Philosopher that after hee had described the Nature of one of Gods woorkes that is to saie of Man and the partes of his bodie hee was enforced yea almoste against his will to syng an Himne to god Heerehence it commeth that suche multitude of hymnes so many Epodes and songes of praise so many Psalmes are written and celebrated The v. that wee vnderstandyng these thinges maie easily and plainly expounde and freely enter into many places of holie Scripture whiche vnto suche as bee ignorante of these matters are not onely obscure but also cannot possibly bee attained vnto or by any meanes vnderstoode Wherefore S. Augustine writeth that Naturall Philosophie is verie profitable and necessarie for a christen diuine What shall I speake of the singulare pleasure whiche this knowledge bringeth vnto the minde of the great cōmodities whiche it ministreth vnto the life of man S. How doe you prooue these thinges to bee true M. Specially out of these places of holie scripture The whole 104 Psalme The 136. and 145. Psalme 10. verse The 147. and 148. Psalmes Iob the 12. chapiter and verse 8. 9. 10. and the 36. Chapiter and 24. 25. 26. verses The 14. Chapiter of the Actes and 17. verse The first Chapiter to the Romanes and 20. verse Unto these moreouer maie bee added the 7. Chapiter of the booke of Wisedome and 9. verse with the nexte followyng and likewise the 13. Chapiter and 1. verse and the nexte followyng Likewise the holie Fathers S. Basill S. Chrisostome S. Ambrose in their Exameron or woorke of sixe daies doc teache the same thyng And moreouer the holie and absolutely learned father S. Augustine in his booke of christian doctrine and in the viii booke of Gene. vpon the letter the viii chapiter S. But there be certain obiections made declaryng that the knowledge of Naturall Philosophie is not onely vnprofitable but also vnwoorthie for a christian yea that it is hurtfull and dangerous for hym M. Yea truely And although many men haue gathered sundrie yet all of thē maie bee referred specially vnto twoo kindes of argumentes whiche are alledged againste the knowledge of these thynges whereof the firste is framed ab auctoritate from auctoritie The second a ratione turpi from reason and vnseemelinesse or from a moste hurtfull consequent S. Declare them M. First thei gather sundrie sentences partly out of the Scriptures and partly out of the Ecclesiasticall Fathers out of whiche afterwarde thei frame their reasons and make their conclusions S. Whiche bee thei M. Out of holie scripture this is specially alledged which is written in the Booke of Ecclesiastes or of the Preacher the 1. Chapiter and 15. verse in these woordes I set my harte to seeke and to finde out with wisedome whatsoeuer thyng is doone vnder heauen This euill exercise hath GOD giuen to the Sonnes of men to occupie them selues therein Unto whiche thei ioyne that saiyng of S. Paule the 1. to the Corinthians the 1. Chapiter and 20. verse God hath made foolishe the wisedome of this worlde with other suche places like vnto these whiche maie easely bee answered S. How I praie you M. Forsoothe that that in the Booke of the Preacher is not spoken absolutely but onely in comparison of the true woorshippyng of god Neither doeth Salomon cōdemne or disprooue the true knowledge of the nature of thinges whiche GOD gaue vnto hym as a greate benefite of all other moste surpassyng for then should hee haue bin of all men the moste vnthankfullest man to God and in respecte whereof hee was then greatly esteemed of by the Queene of Saba and other Princes neere vnto hym Howbeeit this knowledge of Naturall Philosophie if it bee compared with true Godlinesse if with faithe if with the true feare of GOD if with inwarde regeneration of the mynde if with the knowledge of euerlastyng life and saluation surely in comparison of these thynges it is but a light busiyng of the minde vnfruitfull rather weariyng vs then relieuyng or comfortyng our consciences For it bryngeth not the true felicitie as faithe to Godwardes doeth although a manne consume his whole life in it and as it were tyre his minde aboute it And as touchyng the place of S. Paule I see not how it oppugneth the knowledge of Naturall Philosophie seeyng S. Paule condemneth the wisedome of the worlde not the wisedome concernyng the worlde and thynges created But that is called the wisedome of the world whiche is wholy ruled by the counsell and iudgement of the
S. Tell mee why you iudge wee should thinke so M. First for asmutch as when the holie Scripture doeth diligently reckon vp the special visible works of God wherein his maiestie and omnipotencie may easilye bee perceiued hee maketh mention of this one worlde only and not of any other Whiche if there had bine many doubtlesse hee would haue made mention of them For that poinct had made verie mutch to the settyng foorth of Gods glorie and power Moreouer what is their state order condition fall constancie Sauiour and Jesus what likewise is their life euerlasting and from whence commeth the saluation of this second or third world it is no where declared neither in what sort these other worldes were made and created but al these thinges are expressed concernyng this one onely Wherefore it must needes bee either that those worldes were made by some other God or that they came of themselues both whiche opinions are plainly blasphemous Or if they bee created by the same God by whiche this was whiche wee dwell in why doeth the Scripture speake nothing of it Surely there can bee no probable reason alleaged of so enuious and daungerous silence And therefore it came to passe that the auncient fathers in fore time did verie well thinke and gather that there is but one God bicause there is but one worlde and cōtrariwise that there is but one worlde bicause there is but one god Moreouer all this framing of manye and sundrie worldes how foolish and childishe is it For why should God make many worldes since hee might cōprehend althing more commodiouslie in one and the same beeyng of so greate receite whiche hee ment to comprehende in those diuerse and sundrye worldes But as it is commonly and truely sayd God and Nature make nothyng in vaine and that is vainlye and rashlye doone by moe things which may bee doone by fewer For admit that GOD had created moe in number those worldes shoulde differ in number onely and not in kinde or likenesse What neede hee then to create one maner of thing so often To conclude whē the selfe same Scripture oftentymes addeth the Greek article 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when it speaketh of the world the auctoritie of S. Iohn in the 1. chap. and 10. verse witnesseth that there are not many but one onely and that a certeine one For the article whiche is ioyned vnto it doeth signifie a certeine and sure thing But if wee graunte that there bee manie worldes euen by the very same reason wee must confesse that they are in number infinite I let passe those absurdities whiche notwithstanding doe necessarily followe to wit that neuer almost wee should haue any Eclipses of the Sunne or Moone Yea wee should neuer haue night since one Sunne or another of one of the other worlds should either rise vnto vs when ours goeth downe or else should shine in the middes of Heauen when ours is shadowed and in the Eclipse S. But why did not God make manye worldes M. Truely not by reason of any impotencie or lacke of power since that hee is omnipotente Not that hys senses were exhausted in the framinge of so huge a mole or his strength weried for hee made althinge with his woord onely as it appeareth in the 33. Psalme Not also that it happened so for wante of matter as the Peripatetikes suppose for that all the matter that was prepared was spent in makinge of the bodie of so great a frame For hee that coulde firste make thys so great a worlde of nothing coulde if hee had lusted haue prepared matter for him selfe to make infinite other worlds of But this is onely the cause that ther were not many worlde 's made bycause God woulde not for hee made whatsoeuer hee woulde Psalme 115. and 3. verse But why hee would not it may bee the cause is not knowne to vs notwithstandinge it cannot bee an vniust cause hee himselfe sawe that thys worlde was an argument great ynough vnto vs to set foorth the cōmendation and renoume of his wonderfull mercye and iustice who knoweth all thynge and therefore hee created this one onely The xii Chapter VVhether this worlde bee finite S. BUT is this worlde finite as some doe dispute M. It is not onely one but it is also finite and hath boundes S. Howe prooue you that M. Bycause that is finite whose extreame partes may plainely and perfectly bee shewed but the Scripture hath appointed heauen and earth to bee the extreame partes and endes of this worlde whereof Heauen is the farthest and the earth the nearest as it appeareth in the 20 chap. of Exo. 11. verse and Genesis the 2. chapter and 2. verse and also in other places Wherfore truely it cannot bee doubted but that it is finite Moreouer what difference shoulde there bee noted to bee beetweene the Creator and the Creature if as hee is infinite and without measure the creature also shoulde bee infinite diffuse and without measure Finally there shoulde bee two infinites appoynted which by no meanes can bee indeede or bee defended The xiii Chapter whether this worlde bee sphericall and rounde S. I Remember althinges which you haue hetherto confirmed to wit that this world is substantiall not a shadowe that it is one not many and finally that it is a certeine finite masse comprehension and not infinite and thereunto adde also the residue M First this is wount to bee demaunded what is the forme of this worlde and specially of this body with in the compasse whereof all these thinges are conteyned for that some will haue it to bee sphericall or rounde as Aristotle othersome of the facion and likenesse of the figure Icosaidron rownde compassinge with a greate manye of Angles or Corners heere and there in the top as Plato Others plaine and flat like a skin stretched foorth abroode as S. Basill others giue it other formes and those also diuerse as the Greeke writer Cleomides reporteth in his title of the contemplation of circles S. Is there any of those opinions true M. God he knoweth Wee who in no place of his woord doe reade these matters plainely determined vnlesse parhaps some man will alleag that which is written in Iob the 22. Chapter and 14. verse and there is mention also made of the sphere of the earth in Isay the 40. chapter and 22. verse and in S. Iames the 3. chapter and 6. verse to the ende hee might prooue that thys worlde and also the outmost heauen are rounde like a circle or a wheele doe oftentimes fall are drawne into contrarie opinions Uerily that the worlde is rounde it seemeth vnto mee much the more probable by that which is written as I haue saide in Iob the the 20. chapter and 14. verse and in Eccles the 24. chapter and 8. verse both for that it is the most beutifull and widest forme of all other by whiche it was needefull that a compasse which shoulde conteyne in the bosome thereof so many thinges shoulde
one out of holy Scripture as the strongest of them al. To wit that by this meanes the goodnes and wisedome of God who giueth vnto euery thing and ingraffeth within them their proper and distincte vertues is not only obscured but vtterly extinguished and plucked out of mennes mindes whiles wee attribute these vertues the administration and gouernment of those thinges not vnto GOD hymselfe but vnto a certaine other nature and soule contrarie to that whiche wee are taught too beeleeue and confesse Psalme 147. and 15. and 16. verses To the Ephesians the 3. chapter verse 20. and Iob the viii chapter the 5. verse S. If then there bee not one certeine soule of this whole vniuersalitie as you teache truely the opinion of the Stoikes Platonikes and of certeine other Philosophers and likewise of the Priscillianist Heretikes is ouerthrowen who say that this worlde is a liuyng creature and indued with will and reason M. You gather wel For their opinion is altogether foolish and vnreasonable For since that is only a liuyng creature and so to bee called whose partes and members are not conteined only in one continuall compas of the bodie but also gouerned by one spirite verely this worlde is not a liuyng creature For the mēbers thereof are disioyned and separate As for the auctoritie of the Stoikes and other Philosophers which you named erewhile it should mooue vs verie little had not S. Augustine sometyme written that hee doubted whether this worlde were a liuyng creature or not whiche thyng as hee would not deny so durst hee not affirme whose doubt notwithstandyng we ought not to followe or allowe of The xv Chapter That this world was made in tyme and is not eternall S. BUt I aske you this question whether this world beegan sometime to bee or whether it were alwayes and bee eternall M. Many argumentes doe prooue that the world once beegan to bee among whiche all Philo in his booke De Mundo of the worlde hath gathered fiue speciall ones We wil declare ours and those whiche bee most Christian S. Whiche be they M. These foure First the voyce and auctoritie of the diuine Scripture whiche speaketh in this maner In the beeginnyng God made heauen and earth Genesis the 1. chapter and 1. verse The second reason is certeine For if the world were coeternall with GOD it selfe also were God for eternitie is not only proper to diuine nature but also the most it selfe substance therof and the principall part and definition Exodus the 2. chapt and 14. verse Reuelat. the 1. chap. and 8. verse The thirde that forasmuch as this world shall haue an ende and euery thing hath meanes whereby it doth consist it followeth necessarily that it had a beeginnyng of beeyng For although that bee truely sayde not whatsoeuer had a beeginnyng shall haue an ende forasmuche as there bee many thinges made which through the singulare benefite of God are not subiect to death and corruption as Angels and the soules of men whiche are immortall notwithstandyng it is moste certeinly affirmed that whatsoeuer shall haue an ende the same also had beeginnyng of beeing Which Rule is so generall that it admitteth no exception Finally the fourth is this that not onely the causes of the creation of the worlde are set downe and also the certeine tyme noted but also for the preseruation of the perpetuall memory therof there are certeine spaces of tyme prescribed as the order of weekes doe plainly teache and also the space of fiftie yeares which is called by the Hebrues the yere of Iubile whiche God hymself commaunded to bee obserue whereby wee might easely knowe and vnderstande how many ages are past since the first beeginning of the world S. Concerning that auctority whiche you alleage out of the Scripture and the 1. chapter of Genesis some doe otherwise interprete it They graunte that all these things indeede were made in the beeginnyng but not in tyme For the meaning and signification of a beeginnyng or of this woord principium is manifolde and in that place they saye it must not bee vnderstoode of the beeginning of tyme. M. The signification of a beeginnyng or of this woord principium is threefold For it respecteth either the time either the thing the causes or else the order The beginnynge of time in those things which are brought forth in a certein time is that moment of an houre either wherein they are conceiued or are brought foorth into the world Those thinges haue onely the beeginnyng of tyme which are doone in tyme That which is called the beginning of a thing and is taken for the cause in those thinges which are of one age and time is that relation and affection whereby one thyng is the cause of the beeing of another So if wee make a conference beetweene the day and the night wee saye that the Sun is the beeginning of the daye and light although both of them do appeere vnto vs at one moment Sutch a beeginning a diuerse or certeine time doth not establish Finally a beeginnyng in respect of order is called that which ministreth the beeginnyng of numbryng in sutch thinges as are disposed in one order as for example The father is the beginning among the three persons in trinitie which are one god y magistrate is one amōg many of like auctoritie with whō in telling we do begin like as we do with our cheif Magistrate or Judge in this our Citie of Geneua S. In this respect then they woulde haue God to bee the beginninge of this worlde as beeinge the cause and woorkeman therof as hee that is first numbred is called the beginninge M. Marke howe absurde this is Firste what shall bee the sence and meaning of this saying In the beeginnyng God made heauen and earth if so be they wil thus expound it God in the beeginnyng that is to saye God in God created heauen and earth Moreouer why saide hee did create which woorde doth not onely determine a beginning of beeing but also the force of woorking and a determinate beeginning of time is therein manifestly comprehended and included Beesides will wee nill wee by this reason we shal fall into that damnable heresie of the Hermogenians who make the woorke to bee eternall with the woorkeman and so wee muste needes make moe Gods than one Of which errour me thinketh I shoulde speake sumwhat more at large were it not that Tertullian longe science had vtterly ouerthrowne it in a whole woorke yea the Scripture it selfe doth manifestly expounde this sayinge of Moses of the beeginning of time Prouerbes the 8. Chap. and verses 25. 27. and 28. Hee vseth also the same woords and the same comparison whē hee speaketh of the beginninge of the worlde wherein there muste needes bee vnderstood a beginning and moment of tyme and of beeing Neither can that which S. Paule repeateth so often speakinge of the beginning of the world bee vnderstoode of the laying of the foundations thereof to the Ephesi the 1. Chapter and
is God and the verie same that is called the dweller in our hartes Iohn the 1. chap. the 3. verse and the 1. to the Corinth the 6. Chapter the 19. verse both which persōs since it is taught in the scriptures in sundrie places that they wrought with the Father in the creation of the worlde howe can it bee doubted but that our opinion is right and true S. Foorth then declare whether God created all these thyngs alone M. Yea alone S. How prooue you that M. Out of the 44. Chapter and 24. verse of Isay I am the Lorde that made althinges that spread out the heauens alone and stretched out the earth by my selfe And Iob the 41. Chapter the 2. and 3. verse and to bee short this is the generall doctrine of the scriptures The same is also confirmed by reason For hee is alone which calleth those things that are not and brought them foorth into the lyght and finally hee alone is the aucthor and Father of all thinges S. But with what and howe manie armies of gaynsaiers are you nowe compassed about M. I am not ignorant of that For I shall bee uexed almost with innumerable rables of Heretikes Heathen Philosophers but Gods woord shall sufficiently defende mee and his holy trueth shall stande for me against them all S. Tell mee then what were those heretikes opinions or rather errours in that point M. I will gather them togither out of Ireneus cheifly out of the 1. and 2. booke Some of the Heretikes will haue it that this worlde was first thought vpon and conceiued in minde by one God and procreated and made by another as certaine of the Valentinians and Carpocratians do affirme Othersome by a certain other nature and farre differinge vertue than which ought to bee called a God and which gouerneth althing by whom they suppose this worlde to haue beene made as Corinthus held opinion whom at sumtime they termed Hystera a belly or a wombe at another Demiurgus a pronouncer of lawes doe distinguish him from the same whome they will haue to bee the true God call Propator Some again thinke that the world was made by angels only and not by God as the Simonians and Menandrians so many are the wandrings awry whē a man hath once departed out of the right way S. What say the Philosophers M. They holde opinion that the worlde was made by their deuils whiche they call Angels and make them to differ from the greate God in whole kinde as doe the Platonikes As for Epicurus who sayeth that thys world came by chaunce I accoumpt hym not among the number of Philosophers and as for the opinions of the other I haue no leasure now to rehearse them S. What haue you nowe to alleage against so greate a power of your aduersaries M. The woord of GOD and the reason also whiche is confirmed by the same Philosophers The woord of God that forasmuch as it is the proper and peculiare attribute or title beelongyng to GOD onely to bee a creatour the same cannot agree with Angels or any other thing My glory will I not giue to another saieth the lord c. Isay chap. 42. verse 8. and chap. 45. verse 12. Moreouer we should make so many seuerall Gods as there bee Angels creatours For who so createth the same also giueth and susteineth life and his woorke dependeth altogether of hym and of hym it hath it only beeing Wherefore the Angels also shal bee life giuers and susteiners Goddes and Iehouah that is to saye giuers of existence Whiche thing how mutch it repugneth against Scripture it may bee vnderstoode out of the 45. chap. and 18. verse of Isay Whereupon also S. Augustine in his 3. booke and 8. chapter of the Trinitie woorthily and truely denieth with vs that neither the diuels nor Magicians are able to create one S. Can you alleage any reason or opinion to be liked of that is defended by any of the Philosophers M. Yea this one to wit The nature of beeginnings loueth singularitie And therfore Aristotle reciteth and commendeth the woorthie opinion of Homer It is not good that many rule Let one our ruler bee who vsing likewise the same argument in his 12. booke of Metaphysikes affirmeth that there is one chief most excellent God among the residue who is King souereigne aboue them al. The same opinion hath S. Augustine also embraced in his first booke of marriage the 9. chapter and vndoubtedly experience it self teacheth that it is a most true saying Thus can hee also make small thinges that made the greate and the same God that made high thinges bringeth foorthe and fourmeth the lowe things also for hee is almightie as Father Ireneus saieth in his 2. booke and 44. chap. so that it is not onely not necessarie that there should bee many creatours of this world appointed but it is also against the nature of beginninges and the omnipotencie of God that there should bee more than one The. xviii Chapter That the world and all thinges that are therein were made by God of nothyng and not onely decked foorth or set in order or brought foorth out of a certeine disordred heape or matter whiche was extant beefore S. BUt after what maner or in what sense doe you saye that God is the producent and efficient cause of this world M. In respect that hee hath not onely giuen power and beutie vnto thinges but first hath brought foorth and made them out of nothinge hauing no matter preexisting or going beefore which is properly called to create S. Is there anye notablenesse or excellencie in the signification of that woorde which may bee reputed peculiare and proper to the power of God M. Yea mary For by that meanes GOD is verie farre separated from all sortes of other woorkmen and also from all other kindes of causes as are parents and seruants or else the naturall powers S. How so M. For that no woorkman bee hee neuer so mightie and skilfull is able to make anye thyng vnlesse hee haue stuffe ministred vnto him for if he haue no stuffe hee is able to make nothing Take away yron from the Smith timber from the Carpendour yearne from the Weauer what other good can they doe but stand still gaping in their shoppes For euerie Arte and occupation requireth naturally to haue some stuffe prepared for it wheruppon afterwarde it woorketh and bringeth foorth sundrie fourmes Yea not the causes themselues and powers whiche are termed naturall and are proper to euery thing are able to bring foorth any thing without conuenient matter and stuffe alotted vnto them For if a man searche throughly the greatest and whole vertues of the natures of all thinges notwithstandyng hee shall finde that to bee true which is generally spokē by the natural Philosophers Nothyng is made of nothyng Who euer reaped Wheate or Barly without sowing who euer saw trees growe without planting settinge or springing from some berrie or kernell or
proper and naturall force and signification of this woorde Create For in the 43. chap. and 13. verse of Isay the Lorde calleth himselfe the creatour of Israell which people notwithstandinge are knowne to haue beene borne of seede And againe in in the 65. Chapter and 18. verse of the same Prophet he saith Beeholde I create Hierusalem Whiche place whether it bee vnderstoode of the citizens or of the citie it selfe it is certayne that God made neyther of them without seede or matter but the men of the one and the Citie of the other For this woorde Barah is vsed in both places so that I am of opinion that wee ought not to sticke to religiously or percisely to the interpretation of one poore woorde Likewise they alleage this saying of the same Prophete Beeholde I create a newe heauen and a newe earth When as indeede the Lorde will onely renue these bodyes which nowe are heauen and earth and not make theÌ„ again of nothing M. It is writen in Isay as you say But these places doe plainly confirme mine opinion much lesse confute it For the woorde create is taken Metaphorically and wrested a litle from the proper significatioÌ„ wherby the power of God may appeare the greater more excellent in restoringe his people and holy Citie beesides al hope and other thinges beesides all ordinarie meanes For lyke as the thinges that are created are beesides the course of nature made of nothinge so likewise bycause the Lord promiseth that hee will restore and renue his people and Citie hee vseth properly the woorde of creating for that this which the Lord will woorke is as it were a new creation and a certayne wonÌ„derfull bringing foorth and generation out of nothinge Althoughe I will not deney but that the signification of this word Barah is ofteÌ„times translated and vsed more largely as when it is sayd Create a cleane hart within mee O God the 51. Psalme and 12. verse and againe The seat of the frowarde createth iniquitie Psalme 94. and 20. verse Of this sayinge and opinion of Sainct Augustine that I maye saye so much by the licence of so woorthy a man I doe not well alowe Who in his first booke against the aduersaries of the lawe and the Prophetes the 23 chap writeth thus And when there is anye difference made beetweene makinge and creatinge this maye bee the oddes beetwene those two woordes as I sayde that that is made which beefore was not at all and that created which is ordeyned of sumthinge that was beefore Hee distinguished those two woordes Make and Creat toto subtily whiche oftentimes are vsed one for an other S. How then should it bee M. Thus the Scripture plainly defineth to wit that God is the creatour of the world that is to say of all thinges that are who made framed brought foorth them all out of nothing and not out of any matter preexisting or made to his hande or whiche is coeternall with God himself or ministred vnto him by some other woorking God as the Manichees doe suppose For that opinion induceth two Goddes and in making twayne it leaueth none For either there is no God or there is but one Finally as saith S. Ambrose God should bee onely the diuiser of the figure and not the maker of Nature and hee had founde and receiued more than hee had made if there had bin any matter readie to his hande S. But there bee some that saie that this matter is signified in the scripture by this woorde Tohu where vpon afterward the Grecians and the Philosophers who receiued those thinges first of the Hebrues and of the Phenicians neere borderers to the Hebrues whiche thei haue written concernyng the beeginnyng of the worlde thei deuised this woorde Hyle by a small alteration of certein letters made according to the vse and proprietie of their tongue For this woorde Hyle saiethei signifieth among the Grecians as muche as a rude heape vnformed and as it were a certein moiste and waterishe yearth or quagmire or dregges out of whiche many thinges are engendred through the force of the heate whiche commeth vnto it From the whiche woorde Hyle is the woorde Hilys deriued which signifieth dregges and froath that is to saye a dirtie and moyst earth out of whiche many thinges doe growe in the Sea. M. I doubted not but those that goe about to defend the same errour of theirs concerning a firste matter pre-existing as though it were verie necessarie and they that haue throughly receiued the same doe deuise many suche foolishe fantasies But how small or none at all the affinity of these two woordes is Tohu and Hyle in writing of the Letters or rather how farre this is from the trueth your selfe doe see and it shall not bee needefull to seeke farther forasmuch as God is openly called the creatour of heauen and earth S. Yea God is termed Gosâ—he Ioâ—ser that is to say the maker and the fourmer as it is written in Isay the 66. chapt and 10. verse and Iob the 35. chap. and 10. verse and Isay the 54. chap. 8. verse as also in the 90. Psalme the 2. verse M. That was doone not rashly nor in vaine but to the intent to take awaye sutch errours as the spirite of God foresawe would grow afterward amongst men For there are twoo errours among men concernyng the beeginning of all thinges beesides the errour of the materiare heretikes For some thinke that first and alwaies there was existing a certein whole masse and that rude and confused whiche was the heape of all the principall partes and thinges of the worlde whiche now are existing and fourmed but then disorderly mingled togither which they call Chaos And this opinion Hesiodus folowed in his Theogonia whiche Ouid describeth in his Metamorphosis in these wordes Beefore the sea and lande were made the heauen that all doth hide In all the worlde one onely face of nature did abyde Whiche Chaos hight an huge rude heape and nothinge else but eeuen An heauie lumpe and clottred clod of feedes togither driuen Of thinges at strife amonge themselues for want of order due No sunne as yet with lightsome beames the shapelesse worlde did viewe c. This muche therefore they doe attribute vnto God that hee is the distinguisher trimmer and setter foorth of this so confused a Chaos mole and heape and not the creatour of it in time giuinge vnto it the first meanes of beeinge And therefore the Poet sayde There was as it were from euerlasting and not the same Chaos was made and created by god And for this cause they doe not call God the Creatour of the world but onely the beutifier and as Sainct Ambrose sayeth the deuiser of the shape and fourme thereof as though hee hadde giuen a certeine comlinesse and order vnto thinges that existed before and which had of themselues their owne proper strength and nature whiche hee accomplished by a certaine wise and apt distinction of them and by separating
elemētare part of the world are the materiall causes of those thinges whiche are heare engendred Wherefore they be in the things doe constitute and make their substance which vse and functiō the woord element when it is properly taken doth signifie S. How farre doth eche of these regions extend which bee the farthest endes and boundes of them both M. I will nowe touche them in fewe woordes and at an other tyme perhapes declare them more at large Some determine the ethereall and heauenly region from the highest heauen vnto the circle of the Moone And the elementare from that place whiche is vnder this circle sphere vnto the lowest center of the earth Howbeit othersome suppose rather that the Moone belongeth to the elementare and earthly region of the woorlde concerning which varictie of mens opiniōs reade Plutarches booke of the face whiche appeareth in the globe of the Moone Howbeit I haue alwayes thought the first opinion to bee truest S. What thincke you then of that generall diuision of thinges whereby all thinges that are in this worlde are diuided not into two partes but into foure generall kindes to wit of thinges that are in heauen vppon the earth vnder the earth and in the sea as it is to bee seene in the Reuelat. the 5. chapter and 13. verse And Sainct Paule likewise hath plainly distinguished three kindes of things to wit of heauen of the earth and of vnder the earth To the Philip. the 2. chapter and 20. verse M. Those generall diuisiōs of things wherof you spake and whatsoeuer other there bee may easily bee reuoked vnto these two generall kindes of thinges which I proposed For that which is called the earthly and elementare Region comprehendeth all thinges that are vpon the earth and in the earth in the waters yea those things also that are called things vnder the earth whiche for the most part are none other in the Scripture than the things that are in the sea as it apeareth by the interpretatiō which God himself made in the 20. chap. of Exodus and 4. verse And the ethereall region conteineth all things that are called heauenly The xxix Chapter Of the East West North and South partes of the worlde S. DIscourse now of that kinde of partes whi che you termed distinguishing and not constituting partes of the worlde M. These bee foure in number called thus in the Hebrue tongue Quedem Iamin Tsaphon Negeb or Iamita and amonge vs thus East West North and South all whiche Sainet Augustine thinketh to bee comprehended and signified by this woorde Adam applying the Hebrue woorde to the Greeke S. But what was the cause and reason of fyrst deuising these names M. It is not needefull to seeke out the causes and reasōs of the Greeke and Latine woords For they are commonly knowne And as for the Hebrue woords this I thinke is the reason of them The East is called Quedem bicause it is the firste or foremost parte of the worlde The west Iamin which signifieth the sea bycause in the West part of the worlde lieth the great sea which is called Mare Mediteraneum the midlande sea The North Tsaphon for that that part of the worlde was hid and vnknowne to the Hebrues in respect of the regions of the earth and of the people with whō they had no trafycque nor dealinge bicause of the distance of place beetweene them So that the case stoode contrarie with them and vs nowe who dayly beholde the North stare and poale And as for the South it is alwaies hidden from vs The South is called by them Negeb bycause that quarter of the worlde is drie barrein and burnt with the perpetuall heate and skorching of the Sunne or it may bee called Iamin the firste sillable beeing long that thereby it may differ from the fyrst Iamin whiche hath the fyrste syllable shorte bycause that when wee looke into the East y South is on our right hand not on our left S. Where doth the scripture make mentiō of these foure quarters of the worlde M. Almost in infinite places of whiche wee will alledge these few Genesis the 13. chap. and 14. verse and the 28. chap. 14. verse Psal 107. and 3. verse Isay y 47. chap. and 5. and 6. verses Psal the 75. and 7. verse S. Why do you call these onely distinguishing partes M. Bicause wee obserue them onely for the vse and commoditie of men S. For what commoditie M. Specially for foure whereof two do appertain to the publike and common vse of all men and other twoo do concerne the priuate commodity of euery place and countrey S. Declare this more at large M. This distinction of the quarters of the worlde was necessarie for the vse of man for two causes The first to the ende that the nations and people of this world might be distinguished one frō another wherof we say some dwel East some west some north some south Moreouer to obserue the course of the Sūne whose benefit al nations do enioye who rising in the East goeth by the south vntill at length he cōmeth into the West And finally to declare the force originall of the windes all which cannot possibly bee vnderstood and obserued vnlesse these foure quarters of the worlde bee distinguished And as touching priuat vse also it was necessarie that they should bee distinct First to the entent that the limites and situation of euery kingdom people and countrie may be discribed And also that it might bee signified and set foorth where the boundes and endes are of the houses fendes and places of euery territorie and so thereby in the ende all strife and contention bee taken from among priuate men concerning the boundes of their landes S. I vnderstād what you say But what are these regiōs distinct by nature or rather are they fantasied by the opiniō of men so that euerie priuate people or man may wheresoeuer hee will make East West North and South For that region of heauen and earth which is called by the Hebrues Tsaphon that is to say hidden and by vs the North the same is oftentimes vnto vs wide playne and open to bee seen like as that region of Heauen whiche was vnknowen too the Jewes is vnto all the Northren people And contrariwise the Southren Region of Heauen and the Poale of the worlde whiche was seen of them is hidden from vs as is also the Starre called Canopus with suche other Moreouer that parte of the worlde whiche is on the right hand to vs is oftentimes on the lefte hand to others whereof came that whiche Virgill spake of the Articke Poale This top ouer our heades aloft remaineth still in fight The other black Styx seeth below and ghostes that dwell in night And that saying also of the Poet Lucane Arabians you now are come into a strangie land Much woundring not to see thee shadowes fall on your left hand with other suche like to that purport M. No
hee is not called onely the image but also the liuely brightnesse of the Fathers glorye And yet farther to the intent it may bee the better vnderstoode what and how great the difference is wee must note that the world and man are a notable but yet a shadowed representation of those things which they do teach vs cōcerning god And Christ the expresse and liuely fourme in whose inward natural and substanciall brightnesse wee may most euidently behold the infinite power of God and incomprehensible loue towardes vs men Thus therefore when wee thincke vppon God and beholde him in all other thinges suche is our vanitie that immediatly wee decay and come to naught but when wee looke vppon him in Christ wee are quieted and stayed most firmely and substantially Wherefore there ought no comparison bee made betweene these which differ in kinde and manner of representation The xxxiii Chapter Two endes of the worlde not chiefe S. BUT bee ther not also other finall causes of the worlde M. Yeas there bee two but not chiefe S. What bee they M. The first is this to wit the vse of al men For this worlde was created for mans sake and man for god The seconde is for the Church or congregation For the worlde was created to the entent it should bee an house and dwelling place prepared for the Church and congregation that should bee hereafter where in it might remaine of it owne right which congregation God woulde establishe there and afterward bring to heauen S. Howe prooue you this M. First out of the 8. Psalme And secondly by that which S. Paule writeth to the Romanes the 4. Chapter and 13. verse The xxxiiii Chapter Of the meanes and engins whereby God raysed this so great a frame of the worlde and first of the woorde of God which was the meanes whereby this worlde was created S. HEtherto you haue declared the causes of this worlde nowe shewe the meanes and instrumentes wherby it was created And when mention is made of the creation of the woorlde some do demaunde what wedges what tooles and engins were occupied to the rearinge vp of so great a mole and they thinke themselues not satisfied vnlesse aunswere bee made vnto those doubtes of their minde M. Thei that seeke to know with what instruments this worlde was created do verie foolyshly forasmuch as this woorde create doth sufficiently declare that all this whole woorke is plainly miraculous and supernaturall For God vsed no tooles nor engins as carpenters vse to doe thereby to supplie the infirmitie of their strength But all his framing and buildinge and the woorkemanship of thys worlde doeth differ farre from all our meanes and pollices S. Tell mee then what it was M. In declaringe the meanes by which this world was created ther are foure things annexed which we must not pretermit and they perteine to the settinge foorth of Gods glory and omnipotencie wherof the fyrst is this that the worlde was created at the woorde and commaundement of God. S. Howe prooue you that M. Behold a most manifest place of the Scripture in the 33. Psalme 9. verse For hee spake and it was doone hee commaunded and it stoode fast and in the 148. Psalme and 5. verse Hee commaunded and they were created Moreouer Moses in the first chapter of Genesis beefore the creation of euery thing as they were made and created orderly in euery daye so doeth hee plainely shewe that the woord and cōmaundement of God went alwayes before And the Lorde sayde let it bee made c. Yea the Stoikes haue saide that the woorde of God was the efficient cause of the whole nature of thinges as Laertius writeth in his 7. booke in the life of Zeno. S. But there bee twoo impedementes that it can not bee so M. Which bee they S. The fyrst is that which is written in the 45. Chapter and 12. verse of Isay My handes haue stretched foorth the heauens Ergo God made not these things with his woord but with his handes M. Uerily this saiyng conteineth a most manifest Metaphore when hee attributeth handes vnto God and when in respect of the weakenesse of our vnderstanding God is cōpared to an handie craftes man which woorketh with his owne hāds the like wherof there are many authorities to be foūde in y scriptures And whereas this woorde of creating is vsed in the same place it plainly calleth vs backe vnto that diuine and extraordinarie woorke of God and to thinke vppon that meane onely which Moses hath recited M. The seconde impediment is that wheras in another place in like kind of thinges and semblable argument mention is made of the woorde of God notwithstanding Gods secret will is ment thereby whiche is not expressed in any woord or commaundemēt as in the 147. Psalme 15. and 18. verses where he speaketh of Ice Hee sendeth out his woorde and melteth it M. You say well Howbeit in Genesis the verye text also Moses minde teatheth vs that wee must say and thinke otherwise where it is plainly writen that God spake and cōmaunded that to bee which was made Wherfore the only bare and secrete will of God is not there to bee vnderstood and taken but that which is reuealed by the prolation and vtteringe of some woorde of his and commaundement Which opinion of mine is confirmed by an interpretation which the Scripture it self maketh noting that this was doone by vttering of some woorde or voyce For in the 33. Psalme and 6. verse after that it is declared that these things were made by the woorde of God for true exposition sake it is added by the spirite of his mouth For a voice is made by the breathing foorth of aire which is doone by the mouth S. But by this meanes feigning that God hath a tōgue roofe of the mouth and teeth with out whiche instruments no voyce can bee vttered you seeme to reuoke againe out of Hell the abominable errour of the Antropomorphites M. God forbid that I should thinke so wickedly of the infinite and omnipotent maiestie of god But like as the Lorde spake so as he might bee heard and vnderstoode when hee gaue the law in mount Sinai which no man can deney as likewise when hee spake to Moses whē he gaue answere by Vrim Thumim y Lord spake vttered a voice in the hearing of the people yet not withstāding we must not feigne y god hath a tongue a mouth a palate of the mouth teeth So in the beginning creation of the world when it is sayd that God spake his diuine shape was not chaunged intoo an humane fourme but it came to passe by a speciall prouidence and pollicie For the Lord tooke vpon him for a tyme suche meanes as were necessarie for the bringing foorth a cleare and audible voice wherof afterward hee left the vse S Doe you thinke then that the Lord spake plainly and distinctly M. Yea verely Howbeeit I am not ignorant what S. Augustine thinketh
the maker and creatour of this world and that all thinges were fashioned brought foorth by his hande will power And that I may not traueill in the gathering togither of these testimonies I will here recite vnto you twayne for all the one in the Psalme 104. and 29. verse If thou hyde thy face they are troubled if thou take away their breath they die and returne vnto their dust if thou send foorth thy spirite they are created and thou renuest the face of the earth the other in Isay the 45. chap. and 18. verse For thus sayth the Lorde that created heauen God hymself that formed the earth and made it hee that prepared it hee created it not in vayne hee formed it to bee inhabited And therefore the auncient Fathers commonlie termed the worlde a woorke perfectlie wrought The xvii Chapter Of the causes of the worlde and first of the cause efficient thereof which is God not Angels nor Diuells S. WHiche bee the causes of this world M There bee foure first the efficient or producing cause the materiall formall and finall S. Can you declare them seuerally vnto mee M. I will. S. Tell mee then whiche is the efficient cause M. God and hee onely S. Haue you anye reason wherby you can prooue thys your so short resolution M. Yea I haue And first Moses proueth that it was God y made this world Genesis y 1. chap. In the beginning God made heauen earth And Dauid also cōfirmeth same in y 33. Psalme and 6. verse By the woorde of the Lorde were the heauens made and all the hoste of them by the breath of his mouth For hee spake and it was doone hee commaunded and it stoode Likewise Isay in the 44. chap. And Iob the 12. chap. And finally both the newe and old Testament The same also did Anaxagoras the Philosopher signifie sum what obscurely hauing before receiued it by some auncient tradition who called the mynde that is to saye God the Creatour of all thinges who although hee were therefore laughed at by the other naturall Philosophers of his tyme yet he helde the true opinion Howbeeit the Marcionites and after them the Manichees doe vrge farther They say that this world wherin there is sutch disturbance and disorder among thinges is vnworthy to bee called or counted Gods woork For what confusion what calamitie what perturbacion is there seene in this worlde and in all these thinges where wicked men doe rule good men are vexed the Summer sometyme is colde the Haruest greeuous and daungerous and sutch other like accidentes doe happen And therfore if wee say that God made these things God is not the auctour of order in the world but of greate confusion S. But what is your opinion hereof M. They iudge amisse for God is the creatour and producyng cause of all those thinges and substaunces wherof the world consisteth and not of the confusion and disorder whiche now is and afterward came vppon them for that is the effect of mans transgression and a great part of that vanitie wherunto in the beeginnyng through Adam all thinges were subiect Romanes the 8. chap. Therefore it is not caused by GOD neither ingraffed by hym nor proceedyng from hym For hee created all thinges first good and in good order and subiect to no disorder confusion or deformitie So Romulus builded the Citie of Rome not those seditions which many hundred yeres after his death sprang vp at Rome through y ambition of men Wherfore against the Marcionites and Manichees we ought to distinguishe and deuide the thinges themselues their nature and substance from the deformitie whiche afterward hapned and came vpon them For the Heathen Philosophers themselues as Thales for example haue called this worlde a beutifull woorke and counted it woorthy of God agreate deale better than those Heretikes haue doone S. Proceede then with that which you began M. It was God therfore that created and fourmed this worlde what GOD Forsooth hee which is one in substance and three in person to wit the Father the Sunne and the holy Ghost and so is it to bee vnderstoode that God made the world to wit that it is the woorke of them all three indifferently and not either the Fathers or the Sunnes or the holy Ghosts specially or principally the woorkes also of the whole Trinitie are vndiuided althoughe the woorkemanship of either of the persons is distinct in the self same woorke S. Declare this which you spake more plainely M. Meses teacheth in the 1. of the Genesis that the Father wrought in the creation of the worlde and also the woord that is to say the Sunne like wise the holy ghost The father createth by his wil the woord or y Sunne createth by woorkinge and bringing foorth and the holy Ghost treateth by implāting of strength and nature and by giuing of motion and life whiche is in euery thinge for the bringinge foorth and preseruation therof And therfore S. Ihon in the 1. chap. and 3. and 14. verses when hee had declared that all thinges were made by the woorde hee saieth afterwarde that the same was the Sunne of god Wherfore the Sunne is and is also rightly called the creatour of the world And the holy Ghost giueth strength to liue and to mooue and also susteineth both that they may exist and liue also continue bee preserued Wherefore hee also in the creation of the world woorthily challengeth vnto himselfe some parte of so woorthie a woorke which also by Isay in the 40. chap. and 7. verse and the 41. chapter 29. verse are plainlyascribed and attributed vnto him S. There bee othersome that doe otherwise interprete this which you saye and by this name VVoorde and also the holy Ghost do not vnderstand certain substances or any thinge existing of themselues but suppose rather that thereby the meane is taught by which this worlde was made to wit not that by anye engin or frame not by ironwoorkes not by any handie crafte so hugie a mole was framed and brought foorth but onely by the commaundement and the word of Gods will that is to saye onely by the declaring and publishing of Gods decree which of it selfe is of sufficient power and efficacie M. I doe not deney but that those thinges which vnto vs of their owne nature are misticall and incomprehensible are opened and declared by suche parables set and set foorth in such wordes metaphores as by vs they may bee vnderstoode To wit that the eternall Sunne of God is called the woorde and the holie Ghost which is that diuine person substancial vertue subsistinge by it selfe and proceeding from the Father and the Sunne and is distinct notwithstāding is called a spirite But forasmuch as the scripture in an other place teacheth that that woorde is not a certain sound or declaratiō of Gods will a certeine common enuntiane or spoken woord that the spirite is not a power and vertue infused into thinges but that hee
distributing of euery part into it owne conuenient place Othersome there bee that doe attribute more vnto god For they holde opinion that the matter was a great mole from eternitie mary but matter onely and not that althinges were encluded and comprehended within it whiche the firste sorte doe also holde but that it was rude and vnshapen Which matter for that it was great GOD taking it in hande diuided it into smale peaces and as hee is a moste wise and cunninge woorkeman facioned it into sundrye fourmes And so endued euerye parte thereof with hys owne proper fourme which wee see them nowe rertaine Euen so out of one and the selfesame barre of yron cut into sundry pieces the Smith frameth forgeth a key an hammer a sawe fetters and many other thinges seruinge to sundrie purposes whereof they tearme God Demiurgus and not the creatour or maker Howbeit the scripture attributeth all this vnto god To wyt both that they bee thinges and also haue the same force power nature and fourme which wee see to bee in them And finally in that they are situate in such place and distinguished in sutch order as wee doe beeholde that they decke foorth this mole in such cumly sorte as in hugenesse beutie we do perceiue they do and in such maner as ther is no man able sufficiently to expresse Wherefore the Scripture saith that God doeth not onely Barah that is to say create And in the Greeke tongue Kâ—â—zin or Poem but also Gascha which is to say woorke And in Greeke also to doe some woorke or Demiurgin and also Iarsar that is to say to bring things into a cumly order which in the Greeke tongue is called â—â—smiâ— and that all things which are in this world which are seene do take their beeginning from God to bee thinges at all and to bee suche maner thinges as they are wee muste so determine moste certeinely with ourselues vnderstande so and confesse the same beeing thereto constrained by the force of truth S. Haue you any proofes to confirme this your opinion by M. Yea truely that especially out of these places of holy scripture Isay the 42. chapter and 5. verse the 43. chapter the 1. and 7. verses the 45. chapter the 12. 18. verses Likewise Iob the 26. chapter and 13. verse the 25. chapter 10. verse wher the onely and felfesame God is termed by so many and diuerse names The xix Chapter Of the ende for which God created and made this worlde S. WHat cause mooued God specially to make this worlde hee himselfe lacking nothing and dwelling in that euerlastinge felicitie vnto which there can bee no encrease of felicitie immortalitie added by meanes of al this gret woorke M. Euen his mere goodnes that is to saye his moste louing good will to communicate the same his felicitie vnto certeine thinges so farre foorth as the nature of those thinges whiche hee created was able to receiue the same Wherefore hee created Angels in heauen and men vpon the earth to the intent hee might make them after a sort companions and partakers of his felicitie beeing hymself most good moste louing moste perfect and also in himselfe and through himself most perfectly and wholy blessed S. How proue you this M. Both by auctoritie and reason And auctoritie is that whiche is cheifly taken out of the Scriptures as the the 36. Psalme the 5. verse Lord thy mercy stretcheth vnto the heauens Psalme 33. the 5. verse The earth is full of the mercy of the lord Psalme 34 the 9. verse See how good the Lord is and in the 103. Psalme the 17. verse The mercie of the Lord indureth from one age vnto another And in the 111. Psalme and 4. verse But specially in the 136. Psalme throughout and in the Psalme 145. and 9. verse The Lorde is good to all and his mercies are ouer all his woorkes And next out of the Fathers For S. Augustine in his 1. booke of Genesis vpon the letter the 8. chapter and also is his Enchiridion the 9. booke sayeth plainly that the only goodnes of God was the cause wherefore God made all these things The same is likewise affirmed by Ireneus in his third boooke the 45. and 46. chapters and also by Fulgentius in his booke de fide ad Petr. the 3. chapt And if you will also commend Heathen writers in this respect you haue Plato in Timeo a most graue auctour among them who beeing led by a naturall light and the testimonie of his owne conscience wrote in this maner whiche Cicero hath expressed is his booke de vniuersitate Let vs thaÌ„ seeke out the cause which mooued hym that made these thinges to beegin a new originall and frame of thinges Hee was good And hee that is good enuieth no man. And therefore some say thus God knew and would haue his felicitie to bee communicated to others For although that the diuine goodnes is and was in God most fully and most perfectly without al these thinges as it appeareth in the 60. Psalme and is also kepte vndefiled Notwithstandyng these things which are created are manifestatiue as they speake in the scholes do declare the excellencie of Gods goodnes that is to saye they shewe that the same goodnes is altogether agreeable vnto god This muche say they S. I haue heard the auctorities declare now the reasons M. Forasmuche as there proceedeth nothyng from vs men neither from the blessed and elect Angels wherby God may be more established in respect of his eternitie or more blessed in respect of his state and condicion as it is written in the 16. Psalme and 2. verse for it is not possible that any thing should bee added vnto hym who of himself is altogether perfect truely ther was no neede that draue him to make these thinges but only this one cause to wit his owne louing good will. Wherefore like as it is writen in the 3. chapter to Titus the 4. verse that the mere goodnes of GOD was the cause of mans saluation so was it also the cause of mans creation And if it were the cause of men doubtlesse it was also the cause of the creation of all other thinges The xx Chapter This world cannot bee called the Sunne of God. S. I Do wel vnderstand so much as you haue hetherto sayd of God who is the efficient cause of thys world not as a woorkeman onely or a discriber or painter or trimmer vp but rather as a creator and a bringer foorth of it out of nothyng Tell mee now this one thing more whether in respect of these causes this world may bee called the Sunne of God M. You renue an old question which S. Augustine plainly discusseth in his Enchiridion the 38. and 39. chapters Truely if we will speake properly and to vnderstandyng this world neither can nor ought bee called the Sun of god First bicause it is not made of the substance of god For they that are properly called
a mans children or sunnes are beegotten of the fathers seede and substance Moreouer whatsoeuer is said to spring and come of another ought not by and by to be called the sunne of that from whiche it springeth For Lice doe breede out of a mannes fleshe yet are thei not called the sunnes of men or of their fleshe To cōclude since the comparison and respecte of GOD vnto the worlde is rather like the woorkeman to the woorke than like the Father to the Sunne truely the worlde may bee termed the woorke and perfected labour of God but by no meanes called his Sunne The. xxi Chapter What God created first to bee the matter for thinges that were created afterward S. HEtherto you haue discoursed of the efficiēt cause now saye sumwhat concernyng the materiall cause of the world M. What matter can I name vnto you since there was none at all as I haue sufficiently disputed and proued beefore as this woord Create declareth if you haue regarde to it owne proper signification Neither do I thinke it woorth the traueill to confute the opinions of the Philosopers who haue almoste euerie one of them stūbled at this block or else to conuince the heresie of the Hermogenians who reuoked that errour whiche was nowe long since extinguished in the Churche of God out of the scooles and opinions of the Stoikes and chose rather to learne how the world beegan at the handes of naturall Philosophers than of true Christians and out of Gods woord Al whose argumentes Tertullian hath confuted in a noble and profitable woorke whiche is now abroade in mens handes and is most worthie to bee read S. I doe not require after that which was not but this rather whether that among those thinges whiche God created of nothing there were any thing disposed prepared and brought foorth that afterward serued the turne and stoode in steede in the creation of other things out of which God did afterward facion and fourme al thinges else that remained to be made M. You mooue mee to enter into a difficult question which consisteth both of like number of weightie reasons and of auctorities of graue writers For among the learned auctours some thinke that Heauen and earth of whiche in the 1. chapt of Genesis and 1. verse it is writen In the beginnyng God made heauen and earth were made by God of nothyng howbeit first and before all thinges to the intent that they might be the prepared matter of all other thinges that were to be afterward created And therfore they say that God did nothyng the other daies following but onely distinguysh this matter and masse which was first confusedly brought foorth and conteined in it the seedes of all other thinges into the proper kindes and elementes and that euerie thing should be trimmed foorth in it owne kind and gouerned by it owne lawe Other dooe suppose otherwise that these thinges were only set downe in the beginning as it were in maner of a preface or supposition of some discourse that should ensue to the end that the summe of the whole matter following might be the better vnderstoode and the boundes of so great a frame as the world is bee drawne foorth In like maner cunning Carpenters when they are about to build some goodly and large house they firste drawe out a platfourme in certeine proportions and lines conteining the fourme of the whole woork that shal bee to the intent they may point out and place the other roomthes of the buildyng within that circuite so conteine themselues within those limites Thus say they heauen and earth are proposed by Moses and that in the beeginning of his Narration to the ende wee might vnderstande what limites the discription following and the whole woorke should haue Like as he also repeateth again those limites after the narration of the creation concludeth the whole woorke whiche hee set foorth after the same manner Genesis the 2. chapter and 1. verse Wherefore In the beginnyng God created heauen and earth that is to saye firste of all the summe of all Gods woorkes is layd beefore vs to bee thought on Moreouer Ireneus in his 2. booke the 10. 11. and 16. chapters sheweth that GOD is not like men as not hauing neede of any matter that hee had created or prepared before hand to finish or make his other woorkes of S. Howe then doe you thinke otherwise M. Truely the interpretation and opinion of the fyrste sorte seemeth vnto mee the more probable which hold that the heauen and earth in suche maner as thei are there spoken of were firste created by GOD of nothing howbeit as it were a rude matter of the whole woorke and bewtie that shoulde folowe out of which God by his mightie power brought foorth all the residue Although almightie God lacked no matter to create firste heauen and earth with all neither yet to bring forthe the woorkes of the other daies like as at this day also he needeth not the seede of man to bryng foorth men of if hee lust to doe otherwise notwithstanding in these questions wee must not enquire how much hee was able to doe sayeth S. Augustine in his 2. booke de Genesi but rather what the course of nature in things will suffer and what his pleasure is and what hee hath reuealed vnto vs by his woorde Neither doth this mine opinion want iust and sufficient confirmation either of the auctoritie of men or of reason And as for auctoritie there is none against mee seeing bothe Philo Iudaeus and the Rabbines commonly and the best learned of the Hebrues doe so expounde that place of Moses yea S. Augustine also oftentimes as in the 5. booke de Ge nesi ad Literam the 3. and 5. chapters and the 1. booke the 5. chapter S. Ambrose likewise in Examero and S. Chrysostome and S. Basile with others S. But can you confirme your opinion by any reason M. Yea by twaine And the first is that this exposition doth very well agree with Moses woordes and order and againe that it seemeth to be plainly confirmed by this woord Beeginning and the signification therof For a beeginning is sayd in comparison of other thinges And therefore to the intent hee might shewe how all other thinges were made afterwarde out of those twayne Moses plainly vseth this preface to wit that the same heauen and the same earth were created in the beeginning that is to saye beefore all the other woorkes that God made and also to the vse of all the other that is to saie from whence afterward the residue were taken and as it were made The very footsteppes as it were of whiche opinion howbeeit the trueth beeyng now and then manifestly intercepted do appeare to be exstant in Hesiodus in his Theogonia and Ouid also in that place of the firste booke of his Metamorphosis which is so well knowne Beefore the Sea and Earth c. This reason also may bee alleaged that the thing itself and specially
the earth is thus described vnto vs and is called by Moses Tohu and Bohu whereby it appeareth that there was a certein Masse stuffe and matter prepared by GOD for the world that should afterwarde bee made whiche was then firste onely and not prepared from euerlasting Yea it cannot bee denied but that at that tyme there was some confusion euen in heauen when as the heauenly and earthly substances were not as yet distinguished separated one from another whiche at length was brought too passe And that also there was no beutie nor brightnes as yet in heauen neither was there any light shining therein Howbeeit that confusion was greater vpon the earth And therefore in respect thereof it was called Tohu and Bohu The xxii Chapter The matter of Earthly thinges of what sorte it was and how commodiously by God prepared S. TEll mee then I praye you what these wordes Tohu and Bohu doe signifie M. First they signifie some vnformed rude confused thing but yet apt and disposed to admitte and receiue fourme and shape And therefore the scripture vseth this kinde of speache when it will signifie some vnpolished and vndigested thyng as it appeareth in Isay the 34. chapter and 11. verse and the 40. chapter and 17. verse Wherefore such was the shape of the earth at that time as for the most part the Poete Ouid expresseth in these woordes For where was earth was sea and aire so was the earth vnstable The aire all darke the sea likewise to beare a ship vnable No kinde of thing had proper shape but eche confounded other c Moreouer as ther are two chiefe kindes of althings one heauenly the other earthly euen so at the beginninge God created two sortes of matter God I say who knewe well ynough of what and how manifolde natures the thinges should bee that hee would make and did theÌ„ make but preparation for them For heauen was prepared as a perfect and heauenly matter of the heauenly partes of the worlde And the earth of the earthly which earth at that time moiste wet moorishe ouer which the water was spread abroad for this cause as it is writen in the 104. Psalme and 6. verse that there shoulde bee then onely one bodye extant consisting of two elementes And as for heauen Moses tarieth lesse time in the declaration therof what manner a thinge it was at that time for that it was a thing better formed and compounded But in discribinge the state of the earth hee vseth moe woordes For hee calleth that first and material earth Tohu and Bohu that is to say a certeine confused masse such an one as wee must needes imagine it to haue been if a man will in minde take from it that bewtie and order which the Lorde added vnto it afterwarde S. What therefore doeth this worde Tohu signifie in the Scriptures M. That which wee call emptie and desolate to wit that wherefore there is no vse commoditie neither bringeth fruite nor yeldeth profit and to bee shorte that is woorth nothinge Whereby it commeth to passe that this woorde is many tymes translated for Nothing as in Iob the 26. chapter and the 7. verse and in Isay the 24. Chapter the 10. and 40. verses a litle before the ende Wherefore the force and signification of this woorde Tohu excludeth that commoditie whiche at this present wee receiue out of the earth S. But what signifieth Bohu M. The same amonge the Hebrues that wee call vnshapen and vnformed and that is vnshapen from whiche all distinction order apte and conuenient placing of the partes is absent and that which representeth to the beholders nothing but confusion and horrour and yet notwithstanding this wanted not all forme as hauing a name and beeing called the earth And thus is it taken in Isay the 29. Chapter and 21. verse S. You tell mee of a merucilous strainge beginnyng and matter whiche GOD made for the creatyng of the worlde M. And suche maner of thyng it was needefull it should bee bothe that wee might the better thereby vnderstande the mighty power of our great and good God who as S. Paule saieth in the 2. to the Corinthians the 4 chapiter and 5. verse hath brought forthe so wonderfull a beautie and light and coÌ„moditie out of so great confusion and darkenesse of all thinges and also that that thing whiche was first ordeined to bee as it were the matter receiuer and mother of sundrie fourmes ought to bee suche a maner of thing Although I confesse that the earth had it owne proper fourme from the verie first moment of the creation thereof but yet suche an one in respect whereof wee take it for a matter vnto other thinges that might afterward receiue other fourmes And therefore you see how fairely and plainly this matter this earth as it is declared is prepared and disposed to receiue afterward the fourmes of thinges in it ¶ The .xxiii. Chapter Why the deapthes of waters couered this matter and yearth S. WHy so M. Bicause it is saied that at that tyme the deapthes and Pooles of waters were mingled with the same earth S. This encreaseth the horrible shewe of that so greate a confusion M. You saie true but Gods power thereby is the more declared Howbeit this coâ—unixtion of the water and earth togither was verie necessarie vnto this that wee speake of to wit that the earth should bee a good commodious and well prepared matter for all earthly thinges whiche it pleased God should rise out of it S. Expounde your owne woordes more plainly M. It behooued that the seede and matter of all thinges should bee apte to bee fourmed pliant and tractable whiche in the earth could not bee without moisture Wherefore the earth whiche of it owne nature is a drie and hard thing not cleauyng togither and not apt to bee drawne forthe in length or breadth vnlesse it bee made suche and tempered with some moisture that maie mollisie it and binde it togither had water ioyned with it And therefore that huge multitude of waters whiche is called the deapthes was created and comprehended in the same body vnder whiche the earth vnshapen was concluded and laye hid Wherby it appeareth that this whole masse was a greater Chaos more difficult to bee manifested out of whiche notwithstandyng God hath brought forthe so greate beautie order brightnesse comelinesse yea and that moste comely All whiche thinges I would in long discourse prooue too haue been of necessitie in the firste matter yea and that by the auctoritie of the Prophane Philisophers them selues vnlesse the place of scripture did confirme it plainly enough S. How M. Moses saieth and darknesse was vppon the deapthes and the Spirite of God mooued vppon the waters Genesis the first chapter and 2. verse so that wee are enforced to defende twoo poinctes whiche make for my side againste the opinions of all the Philosophers The firste is that the matter of all the woorkes whiche God made afterwarde was
all thinges were made for the glorie of the true GOD who is reuealed vntoo vs in his woord Prouerbes the 16. chapter and 16. verse and also S. Paule sayeth in the 1. chapter to the Romanes the 20. verse that the knowledge of GOD is learned out of these created and visible thinges For this world is a familiare coÌ„mon to all landes people nations a free and most beautifull looking glasse wherin the power wisedome and goodnes of God is layed foorth before vs to bee seen beeholden and acknowledged as it is abundantly declared in the 29. Psalme the 1. 2. 3. 4. and 5. verses whereunto you may adde that whiche is written in the booke of wisdome the 13. chapter the 1. and 5 verses Hereof cummeth that saying of Iob in the 36. chapter and 29. verse Remember that thou doe magnifie hys woorke hee meaneth Gods whiche all men doe beehold and see and man looketh vpon a farre of And therefore Isay in the 44. chapter and 23. verse not onely inuiteth men but all other creatures also to sing prayse vnto god The like is also doone in the 147. Psalme S. But seeing that the glory of God is the setting foorth of his vertues and excellencie what vertues or exceading greatnes doth there appeare in the looking glasse of this world wherein are seen such and so many confusions of all thinges M. There are obiect vnto our eies so infinite and innumerable vertues moreouer so noble and incomprehensible excellencie and maiestie that the eternall deitie of the almightie God doth truely and manifestly shewfoorth it selfe in the beeholding and surueiyng of this world as S. Paule sayeth But that I may not runne through all and that this disputation may at length drawe to an end wee will reuoke and contract the ende of this worlde into the klowledge of three speciall vertues in God. S. Whiche bee they M. Power wisedome goodnes S. Alleage vnto mee some example of these thinges M. First the power of God appeareth wounderful great in creating this worlde yea plainely infinite and far surmounting al capacitie and vnderstaÌ„ding of mans witte In that God hath made all these things of nothing so many in number so big in Moâ—e and so wide in place Which beeing all seuerally beholden and considered doe argue great power and force in the maker but beeing generally looked vpon do declare that his power is incomprehensible and infinite Thys power of God in creating the world is proposed vnto vs to bee acknowledged and thought vpon namely in the 19. Psalme and also in the 145. And as for other places of the Scriptures and Prophetes what shall I neede to goe about to recite them in this place S. Giue mee an example of Gods wisedome in the creating and contemplation of the woorkmanship of this world M. That may easely bee seene First in that hee hath placed so many sundrie and diuerse partes and so many seuerall kindes of thinges in one whole bodie next that hee hath giuen a peculiare and proper force and nature vnto euery kinde Moreouer that hee hath alotted to euery nature his owne proper place and metion and to bee short that hee assigneth not onely vnto euery kind but also vnto euery parte of euerie particulare thing it owne proper vse ende profit and effect So that that great wisedome of God hath not made no not the least thing in vaine whiche is truely the manifold wisedome as S. Paule termeth it to the Ephesians the 3. chapter and 10. verse And therefore it is said in the 136. Psalme and 5. verse that hee made the heauens with vnsearchable vnderstanding and wisdome And when as the Prophet Dauid considered in his minde deepely the framing of this world hee cried out and sayd Thy knowledge is to woonderfull and excelleÌ„t for mee I can not attaine vnto it Psalme 139. and 6. verse wherevnto also that may bee added which is writen in the 39. chapter and 26. verse of Ecclesiasticus This our opinion also is confirmed in the 8. chapt and 27. and 28. verses and the residue following and also the 21. cha and 30. verse and by this one thing moreouer that whereas there bee certein thinges yea and men also that are of diuerse and fundrie qualities and condicions and of natures quite contrarie they were to good purpose by the same wisedom of God created in suche maner For the Lord hath wisely made a difference and distinction beetweene the ritchman and the poore Prouerbes the 22. chapter and 2. verse To bee short those thinges whiche wee make none accoumpt of and are indeede but small as a Guat a Woorme and a Butterflie in these notwithstanding appeareth the wonderfull wisedome of God insomuche as wee must needes acknowledge that to bee true which was spoken by Plinie an Heathen writer Nature is neuer more whole in any thing then in the least S. What say you of the goodnes of God doeth that appeere notably in the woorkemanship and creatures of this world M. Yea very mutch And although the â—ame bee mosteuident in y redemption of mankinde whiche was accomplished by the death and passion of our Lord Iesus Christ notwithstandyng it appeareth also vntoo vs to bee very excellent and incomprehensible in the creation constitution and coÌ„seruation of this world S. Declare howe M. First this is a great goodnesse of God that he would haue thinges to exist and bee which were not beefore Moreouer in that hee gaue them lyfe and nature to the intent they shoulde exist whiche could not bee had from any other than him Who onely is the fountayn of lyfe and afterward hath assigned vnto euery kinde of thing it owne proper most conuenient foode and and not assigned it once but also prepareth distributeth and yeldeth it euery day Finally in that he dayly preserueth and defendeth all thinges that are and beynge a good and mercifull father of his owne greate bowntie hath not onely giuen them partes members wherby they may coÌ„modiously liue but endewed them also with motion and sense Whereby they may passe their life pleasantly and willingly enioye it with a sweete delight All which it were infinite to recken And therefore it is well and truely sayd in the 33. Psal and 5. verse that the whole earth is full of his goodnesse And againe in the 145. Psal and 7. verse it is sayde that the multitude of the goodnesse of God springeth foorth from his workes For hee openeth his hande and satisfied euery liuing thing vnto fullnesse and pleasure Whervnto that seemeth to appertayne which is written in the 147. and 148. Psal and that may well bee concluded which all the auncient godly Fathers haue iudged specially Tertullian hath ofteÌ„times written to wit That God by the creatinge of thys world is cognized and by the preaching of his woord is recognized S. But there appeare manye confusions in this worlde which doe obscure the light of this goodnes wisedom and power of God. M. Indeede they darken
them somewhat and sum while that they cannot plainely be seene of many Howbeit they do not altogither obscure or wholy take awaie y appearing of those the vertues of God which he hath imprinted in his woorkes And moreouer forasmuch as these confusions as you terme them are the effectes of his iust iudgement if wee so consider of them as wee ought surely they shall the more set foorth the power and wisedome of God and not obscure it The xxxii Chapter What knowledge of God may bee had by the beeholdinge of this worlde S. BUT that knowledge of God which maye bee hadde by beeholding the worlde and the visible creatures is it sufficient of it selfe to get the perfect vnderstanding of him or rather doeth it conteine and deliuer vnto vs certeine principles thereof which wee must more perfectly and at full afterward seeke and learne by some other meanes to wit out of the woorde of God which is written and reuealed vnto vs For by the framinge and creation of the world wee cannot knowe that Christ is our Sauiour and mediatour vnto God for vs. M. You saye well For Sainct Paule aunswereth in the Epistle to the Romanes the 1. chapter and 20. verse that although the knowledge which is had by the worlde bee trewe yet is it not fully sufficient that thereby wee may vnderstande anye thing concerning our saluation through Christ but that it is in this respecte profitable that therby wee are made vnaccusable For it teacheth vs that God is our Creatour but it is not able to enfourme vs y he is also our redeemer thorow Christe For wee are not able to atteine to that knowledge without the preachinge of the Gospell Wherefore wee must not begin with that knowledge of God whereby wee vnderstande that hee is our sauiour but rather that hee is our creatour whereat wee must indeede beeginne and consequently proceed vnto better and higher things For the Heathen people Philosophers who chiefly folowed this knowledge of Naturall thinges neyther perceiued they the reason of mans saluation which is in Christ onely neither were thei theÌ„selues saued bicause they lacked faith It profiteth notwithstanding and it mutch profiteth too that wee seeke the true God that hath created all these thinges and when wee haue founde hym that wee woorship hym and praye vnto hym as farre as hee shall giue vs grace so to doe This much at the leastwise hee wringeth from vs whether wee will or no that he ought both to bee sought and worshipped who hath first created and now gouerneth al this world Wherfore if we neither seeke him neither woorship hym hee maketh vs vnexcusable S. But there bee many that either haue not seene at all that way of finding out God or when they were entred haue not perceiued that glorie of God whereof you spake or else by how muche the more they haue profited in the knowledge of this world and naturall thinges so muche the more securely and boldly haue they dispised God like as in times past did the Epicurian Philosophers and at this day also to many doe M. These are the greate imperfections and vices of men whiche you speake of and a sharpe accusation of the wonderfull frowardnes of mans nature not the woorkmans fault or want of the light of Gods glorie whiche shineth most brightly in his woorkes For that light shineth clearely enough in this world and in sutch sorte as it cannot bee put out and also is easily seene whoso will lift vp his eyes vnto it and looke vpon it For God hath engrauen in the world greate and wonderfull tokens of his goodnes power and wisedome hee layeth also beefore our eyes most manifest testimonies and documentes that may bee vnderstoode yea by the most ignorant persons Whiche whoso doeth not see let hym accuse hym selfe or his owne sluggishnes and not the hardnes of the booke which God hath sayd before our eyes or the difficultie of the style thereof or the dimnesse of the looking-glasse whiche indeede wee haue a most bright one in the contemplation of this worlde For the 19. Psalme doth sufficiently remooue this slaunder from God and his woorkmanship saiyng that hee hath founded his trueth in the heauens Psalme 89. and 3. verse Who hath distinguished and depainted with liuely colours the other argumentes and tokens of his praise in them as it were by a certein ingrauyng Therefore in that men of olde times haue not seene so manifest signes of God neither see at this day neither doe profit by them towardes the atteining of the knowledge of God it commeth by meanes of their owne fault who by reason of their sinne haue lost the true light of their myndes whiche if it had continued in the firste state of it owne creation truely then should they haue seen these signes not obscurely and fayntly but acknowledged them plainly and perfectly and confessed them too bee great and wonderfull S. How then commeth it to passe that if this world bee the lookinglasse of so great vertues in God and that so bright and so cleare why in another place is man and why also is Christ called the image of God wherin hee setteth himself downe beefore vs to bee seen and knowne It is in vaine that you tell vs of another lookinglasse if this world bee so faire an one as you make it Câ—lâ—sâ— the 1. chapter and 15. verse M. If wee saye that one thing may haue many images and that in sundrie respectes wee shall not graunt any absurditie So that although these three bee called looking glasses wherin God representeth himfelf yet thei be so called in diuerse respects with a large difference The worlde is not called the image of God which notwithstanding is verified of man Christe for the world is onely the looking glasse of Gods vertues as it is their subiect that is to say that wherein they do expresse and shew themselues by sundry meanes and effectes And man is the image of God and not onely the lookinge glasse of his power but also of his nature after a manner for man of all other creatures of the worlde commeth neerest to the nature of God and caried the very fourme of him in the light of his minde and the vprightnes of his will which was in him at his first creation But Christ who is God manifested in the fleshe who was without sinne in whome the Godhead remained who in his whole life and by al meanes shewed foorth the nature similitude fygure of God through his great power wisedome and clemencie is in a farre more excellent respect the image of God than was the first man althoughe hee were sounde and perfect Wherefore the world hath no such similitude and likelinesse with Christ who is vnto vs not onely the ymage and as it were the shadow of the goodnesse Wisedome and Power of God but also the most bright and selfesame representation of the fathers substance Hebrues the 1. chapter and 3. verse And therefore
by reason of impoteÌ„cie wearines or weakenesse in God that he was six dayes in making it but bicause he is most wise by most wise good reasoÌ„ he would thus finish his workes For whatsoeuer is made requireth some order in the making And order requireth distinct time and number First therfore god putteth vs in minde hereby that hee wrought not confusedly nor out of order and so consequently that wee must not meditate and thinke vpon his works lightly and as it were a farre of in general but in order seuerally and particularly of euery one Hee sheweth moreouer howe great diligence wee ought to vse in considering of them seing that hee declareth that hee paused vppon the order of his woorks by this distinctioÌ„ of the daies labours Beesides this hee declareth that wee are not able sufficiently to comprehend his workes the reason therof and manner of creating them is such and so generall that wee haue sufficient matter in them to thinke vpon and beeholde euery daye in the weeke and so throughout the whole yeare For what other thinge is a yeare than a continuall repeating of one and the selfe same weeke For there was an whole day spent in the finishinge of euery part and worke Moreouer god wold not creat the world at once but by piece meale that is to say in some space of time for he ment immediatly after the creatioÌ„ of the world to declare the state law naturall order which the things that hee had made should afterward folow to wit that by which all thinges doe require a space of time for their beeing that is to saye are brought foorth in tyme and are not perfectly growne in a moment as wee see dayely So those thinges that growe out of the earth doe at this daye keepe this order that they springe not suddeynly but by processe of time So the woman is delyuered of hir child after a certaine season so seedes growe out of the earth so trees bringe foorth their frutes and there is nothing done suddenly but wonderfull miraculously Wherfore that time of creation was the fyrst lawe of thinges that shoulde afterward growe and bee ingendred S. And why did God at length cease the seauenth day M. Bicause he would haue it so for there can be no truer reason alleaged For in that hee would haue it so the reason is good although to vs it bee vnknowne For as touching those thinges whiche are disputed by S. Ambrose im his 39. Epistle and also by S. Augustine in sundrie places and likewise by certein others and finally by the Heathen Philosophers themselues concernyng the dignitie of the seauenth number I refer them to the Mathematicians and specially to the Arithâ—meticians and Pithagorians The. xxxviii chapter Of the place wherein the world was made S. HEtherto you haue declared what y worlde is what is the cause therof and what was the maner of making it Adde hereunto also that which may bee demaunded concernyng the place tyme and state of this created world so that at length wee may conclude this whole disputation M. I will doe so if you aske mee of them all in order S. Firste therefore I demaunde concerning the place wherin the worlde is made what it was and what maner one it was M. It must needes bee that it was some voyde place whiche the Grecians call Kenos the Hebrues Tohu wherin it should be created and placed S. Why so M. For bicause if the place wherein the worlde beeyng so greate a frame was placed had bin already full of bodies there could not bee another body placed in a roomth that was full alreadie For twoo bodies cannot bee togither in one place Moreouer this whiche I say is plainly confirmed The Hebrues say out of the 26. chapter of Iob and 7. verse He stretched foorth the North vpon the void place c. Although that before this worlde was made GOD occupied that place wherein the world now standeth filled it with his power which is vnknowne to vs and in an vnspeakable maner as now also hee filleth althinges after they bee made by the vertue and meanes of his presence maiestie and power whereof God is called Megonah that is to say that filleth all thinges Deuteron the 33. chapter and 27. verse notwithstanding in respect of this filling which cummeth by the creation of thinges verily the place wherin this world now standeth was a certein voyd place S. How then will you haue that there shal bee some void place in the world against whiche thing Aristotle contendeth so mutch and experience also M. To the ende that I may cut of all occasion of the vain errours of the Valentines concernyng Bythus whom Ireneus aboundantly confuteth in his 2. booke and 4. and 7. chapters thus I say That beefore the world was made the place and space wherein it nowe standeth was voyde but since the worlde was made that it is not voyd now but full S. But doe you leaue nowe any voide place within the compasse of the worlde M. Uerily if you call that onely ful that is filled with this aire whiche wee drawe in and breath foorth there bee many places too bee called voyd For all that space of the worlde whiche is aboue the Circle of the Moone which some say is very large is void But if you call that full whiche is replenished with some bodie and nature of it owne kinde then maye I call no parte of this whole worlde voide no not so muche as that whiche the Astronomers saye is conteined within the Globe and space of the Heauens but all full and occupied Not onely bicause God made nothing in vain for that is repugnant to his wisedome but also for that the whole stretching foorth of the heauens howe big soeuer it be is an heauenly body For ther is now no effect no vse of a voide place in the nature of thinges whiche is created but there are seene daylie many and most excellent vses in this pointe I meane in that nature will haue all thinge to bee full And that indeede ther is nothing voyd and emptie both the vse of cupping glasses in Physicke also in the plucking vp of Welles and waters into high places by Pumpes and other deuises sufficiently doe teache Suche Philosophers therfore as contend that there is some void place in this world are not onely theÌ„selues voide of wit and iudgment but striue also moste manifestly against certeine experience whom therefore I iudge not too bee esteemed of ¶ The. xxxix Chapter Of the tyme wherein the worlde was made S. YOU haue spoken of the place speake now also of the tyme wherein this worlde was made M. That this worlde beegan sometyme to existe and is not eternall neither of like antiquitie with GOD not onely the Maiestie of Gods holie woorde doeth testifie but also the opinions of the moste auncient Philosophers doe declare Whoe as thei were nerer too the beeginnyng of the worlde so did thei