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heaven_n bind_v kingdom_n loose_v 4,040 5 10.0176 5 true
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A07436 A plaine subuersyon or turnyng vp syde down of all the argumentes, that the Popecatholykes can make for the maintenaunce of auricular confession with a moste wholsome doctryne touchyng the due obedience, that we owe vnto ciuill magistrates, made dialogue wyse betwene the prentyse and the priest by Gracyous Menewe. Menewe, Gracious.; Becon, Thomas, 1512-1567, attributed name. 1555 (1555) STC 17822; ESTC S109991 27,582 98

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of our sauioure Iesu Chryste but ye shall neuer be able to proue y t they are bonde to tell oute theyr synnes vnto them or to receaue suche beggerly absolutyō at their handes as is nowe vsed in Antychristes churche Priest What can ye say to this place of S. Mathewe I wil geue the sayth Chryst to Peter y e keyes of the kyngdome of heauen and whatsoeuer thou bindest in earth shall be bounde in heauen what soeuer thou loosest on earth shal be loosed in heauen And in the. 18 chap. of the same gospel these be our sauiours wordes to all his Apostles Verely I saye vnto you whatsoeuer ye bide on earth shal be boūde in heauē And whatsoeuer ye loose on earth shalbe loosed in heauen And also in the .19 chap of Iohns gospel he sayeth receaue y e holy gost Whose soeuer synnes ye doe forgeue they are forgeuen vnto thē And whose soeuers synnes ye retayne they are retayned The places doe sufficiently declare that Pryestes haue receued of Chryst the autorite and power to forgeue synnes Prentise I wil cirst master person vnder youre correction and leaue shewe what the scripture vnderstandeth by y e keyes and than shal any man easely perceaue and see how shamfully these places haue hertofore beē wrasted and wrighed The keyes sayeth that worthy Chrysostome are the worde of God and y e knowledge of the scriptures whereby y e gate of trueth is opened vnto mē And the kepers of them are the Priestes to whom the offyce of preachyng the worde and expoūdyng the scriptures is commytted Thys is to be called the keye wryteth saynte Augustyne wher wyth the harde hartes are resolued to receaue fayth the secretes of the myndes opened and what soeuer lurketh wythin is by a reasonable way broughte to lyghte That I say is the true keye that openeth the conscyence to true cōfessyon of synne and includeth or shutteth in grace to the eternite of an wholsome mysterie To this a greeth that holy father Ambrose saying verbum dei The woorde of God remytteth synnes the Priest is the iudge in deede the Priest doth his duety and office but he exerciseth no maner power nor iurisdiction And in an other place these be hys wordes Peccata per verbū dimittuntur Sinnes are forgeuen by the worde y e interpreter wherof is the Leuite Now is it playne and euydent enoughe what we oughte to vnderstāde by the keyes euen the true worde of God and the righte vnderstandynge of the scryptures wherby the conscyences of true repentaunte synners are loosed and set at liberte from synne and euerlastyng damnacion and y e cōsciences of them that be hardened in their wicked maliciousnes and wyll in no wyse repente boūd w t the dolefull chaynes of sinne and of helly destructyon And y t thys is the true meanynge and vnderstandyng of the keies Chryst him selfe doeth sufficientlye declare when he sendeth his apostles abrode into the worlde to preach y e gospell o penyng the misterye of byndynge and loosynge on thys wyse goe ye throughoute all the whole worlde and preache y e gospel to all lyuyng creatures here bee the keyes delyuered vnto thē he that beleueth and is baptysed shalbe saued but he that beleueth not shalbe condemned And in the 24 chap. of Luke Christ sayth on thys maner thus it is wrytten thus it behoued Chryst to suffer and to ryse agayne from death y e thirde daye and that repentaūce and remission of synnes shoulde be preached in hys name amonge all nacions The woorde of God then and the preachyng of the gospell are the keyes y t Chryste doeth speake of And when the faythfull ministers of Gods worde doe by due mynistryng and preachyng of y e gospel certifie the repentaunt sinners of the remission and forgeuenesse of their synnes in y e bloud of our sauiour Iesu Christ they louse them so that they are also loused in heauen but when on y e contrarie they do a certayne them because of their vnrepentaunte hartes of the wrath and indignation of God and of euerlastinge damnation excepte they forsake their wicked wayes and turne vnfeynedly vnto the Lorde theyr God they binde them so y t doubt lesse they ar also bound in heauē And by thys byndyng and loosing Christ our sauiour vnderstādeth none other thyng but remitting and retaining of synnes And it is saied that the minister doth forgeue sinnes because that he as a man myght saye sitting in commission vnder hys mayster Chryst doth out of hys mouthe certifie y e cōsciences of true repentaūt sinners of the free remissiō forgeuenes of their sinnes in th blood of y e sōe of god apprehēded takē hold vpō by faith For to sai y t mē cā forgeue sines it is a mere blasphemy agaīst god which thīg the very Pharises Scribs their sels do testifie saying whi doth he speake these blasphemies who cā forgeue synnes but god onely These Pharises Scribes shall rise at y e day of iudgement condēne our Pharisaical hipocrites y t so arragaūtly take vpō thē to forgeue mē their sinnes Priest And haue we not power to forgeue other mē their sinnes but by y e way of cōmissiō Prētyse No forsoth And yet this cōmissiō must be duly executed accordyng to y e wyll pleasure of him y t hath geuē it els it wil be worth 〈…〉 thogh it hath neuer so gloriouse a face in y e site of y e world pri I wil beleue touchynge thys matter as the holy fathers haue beleued taught afore vs. But they haue both beeleued and taught that y e Pryestes haue power and authorite to forgeue synnes Therfore ye maye prate what ye lyst as a sorte of newe fangled heades that ye bee I wyll stycke to the olde catholyke churche as long as I haue any breath in my bodye Prentyse I wyll not haue you to take the matter so hotte master person but let vs rather wyth all lenite and gentylnes reason the matter together that there maye come some edifying of it I doubt not but that ye remember the saying of Ciprian full well where he sayeth and that Chryst oughte only to be heard the father also dyd testifie from heauen saying This is my welbeloued sonne in whō I am pleased heare him Wherefore if Christ oughte to be hearde onely we must not regarde what any man hath afore vs thoughte good to be done but what Christ who is afore all dyd fyrst For we ought in nowise to folow mās custome but the trueth of God And doeth not the Lord our god crye out in the prophete Ezechiell saying Walke not in the statutes of your forfathers kepe not their ordenaunces and defyle not your selfes with their Idols for I am the Lord your God But walke in my statutes kepe my lawes do them Verely maister Person the religion of oure forefathers shall not excuse vs. But what will
ye saye if I can proue by the sayinges and authorities of the most auncient fathers that no man can forgeue synne but God onely Prieste Let me heare what ye cā saye Prentyse Cyrillus writing vpon Ihon speaketh these woordes Truely it lyeth onely in the power of God to louse men from their synnes For who can deliuer the transgressors of the law from synne but onely the autour of the lawe And by and by it foloweth in the same place For when they meaninge the Apostles other ministers forgeue and retayne synnes it is not they that do it but the holy Ghost that dwelleth in them he it is that forgeueth retayneth by them Whereunto agreeth sainct Augustin writing contra epistolam Petiliani For hauing touched this place of S. Ihons gospell Receyue the holy Ghoste whose synnes soeuer ye forgeue thei shalbe forgeuen and whose synnes soeuer ye retayne thei shalbe retayned he doth ende the matter with these wordes It is sufficientlye shewed that they do it not but that the holy Ghost doeth it by them As it is sayed in an other place for it is not you y t speake but the holye Ghoste that is in you In lyke maner Ambrose vpon the .2 Corin. 12. wryteth on this manner It is only in the power of God too remitte synnes to geue the holye Ghoste And agayne He alone doeth forgeue synne that alone dyed for oure synnes Lykewise Chrisostome vpon Matthewe The seruitude and boundage of synne sayeth he is very greuous and heauye frome the whiche no manne can deliuer but God onely For no man besydes God hathe power to remitte or forgeue synne Cyprian in hys sermones De lapsis saieth plainly thus The Lord alone can shew mercy and geue pardon of those synnes that are committed againste hym he alone can graunt forgeuenesse of our synnes that did beare our synnes y t sorowed for vs whome God did deliuer vp to deathe for our synnes Is it not than a blasphemy intollerable and in nowise to be suffered in y e church of Christ that suche vyle persons that haue neither godlinesse nor learninge shoulde take vpon thē that thing that apperteineth only to god If it were onely for this your confession is to be abhorred of all true Christian men Prieste Doeth not Christe saye these wordes when ye stande to praye forgeue if ye haue aughte againste any man Agayne ▪ if ye will not forgeue men their offences my father that is in heauen shall not forgeue you It appereth by these textes that men haue power to forgeue synnes Prentyse Here doeth oure sauioure Iesu Christ speake of that mutual forgeuenesse of synnes and offences that ought to be emōg Christiās without the whiche we oughte to loke for no forgeuenesse at all of our own synnes at the handes of God For as the wyse mā sayeth He that seketh vengeaunce shall fynde vengeaunce of the Lorde whiche shall surely kepe hym hys synnes Hereto maye be applyed all that whole parable y t Christe doeth set fourth at large in the .18 chapiter of Mathew But it foloweth not because wee maye forgeue oure Christian brethren the offences and trespasses that they haue done against vs that we can therfore forgeue those offences synnes that are cōmitted against God Prieste Is not this to geue power vnto the laye peopell too binde and to louse Who can abyde this doctrine Prentyse Sainct Augustyn De verbis Domini geueth power vntoo the laye peopel to bynde and to louse and also Theophilactus whose woordes be these Verely I saye vntoo you Whatsoeuer ye shall bynde vpon the earthe If thou sayeth he being offended doest counte him that hath wronged thee as a Publican and Heathen he shalbe suche a one in heauen But if thou lousest him that is to saye if thou forgeuest hym it shall also be forgeuen hym in heauen For not onely those thinges that y e priests do louse are loused but whatsoeuer also wee beinge wronged do eyther louse or bynde is boūd or loused What saye ye to thys maister personne Prieste Well I will bringe an other texte of the scripture whiche I truste will stoppe your mouth When Christe did rayse Lazarus frome deathe did not he commaunde his disciples to louse and vnbynde hym So when Christe hathe raised any synner frome the deathe of synne who shal louse and vnbynd hym but the priestes Prentyse Fyrste I aunswere that allegories are nothing worth for the confirmatiō and establishment of any doctrine Secondely where ye saye that Christe commaunded his Apostles too louse and vnbynde Lazarus ye cā not proue it by the scriptures For it is rather to be thoughte that he willed the Iewes that stode by to doe it lest they shoulde thinke that there was anye feininge in the myracle and that his power myghte the better bee knowen in this that he did without touchinge with his worde and voice onely rayse the dead It is rather too be expounded after this manner Christe to take awaye all euell suspition from the Iewes commaunded that they should fyrst take awaie the stone that they should smel the stynche haue sure tokens of hys death see hym beinge raysed agayne by the onelye power and vertue of hys worde and touche or handle hym first after he was reliued But what if we should graūt that this was spoken vntoo the Apostles What shoulde ye get by it Prieste That the Lorde hath geuen power to his Apostles too louse Prentyse No no mayster person not so for if ye wil groūd your selfs vpon allegoryes as yt can do none other here this doctrine is rather to be gathered vpō thys historie that Christ by thys facte wolde admonish vs that we shoulde louse theym whome he had raysed that is to say that we should not beare in remembraūce those synnes that he hym self had forgotten or that we shoulde not condēne them as synners whom he had quyted assoyled agayn that wee shoulde not vpbraye the synnes which he him selfe hadde forgeuen or where he is merciful hym self and reddy too forgeue we shoulde not be cruell and bent to vengeaunce Go now maister Personne make boaste of your allegoryes Priest It was neuer mery with vs sythens such ionge boyes presumed to reade the scriptures What say ye to this seing ye are suche a doctour Did not thei that came to the baptisme of Ihon cōfesse their synnes Why should not thei likewise y t come to receyue their housel be shryuen Prentyse Ye muste marke mayster Personne that Ihon preached the baptisme of repentaūce and did baptise with water vnto repentaunce And therfore it is no merueylle that they whiche came to be baptised acknowledged or confessed themselfs too be synners For baptisme is a Sacramēt or mysticall signe of forgeuenesse of synnes whome then shoulde they receyue too it but them that acknowledge them selfs to be sinners They therefore confessed theyr synnes that they mighte be baptised But how or after