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heaven_n apostle_n church_n key_n 2,057 5 9.6217 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A68832 A briefe vievve of the weake grounds of popery as it was propounded to D. Norrice, priest, by T.V. gent: and returned without answere. Udall, Thomas. 1606 (1606) STC 24508.5; ESTC S119623 62,322 134

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not_o err_v belong_v to_o the_o church_n take_v the_o church_n in_o the_o same_o sense_n which_o the_o papist_n in_o this_o tract_n understand_v it_o of_o father_n counsel_n and_o the_o pope_n and_o who_o know_v not_o that_o notwithstanding_o your_o late_a council_n of_o trent_n and_o diverse_a other_o counsel_n and_o learned_a book_n of_o all_o side_n that_o yet_o the_o controversy_n be_v not_o end_v be_v indeed_o the_o never_o end_v knot_n of_o religion_n for_o though_o this_o persuasion_n that_o the_o church_n can_v err_v may_v sometime_o breed_v a_o outward_a quietness_n in_o the_o church_n yet_o it_o have_v no_o force_n to_o establish_v man_n in_o the_o unity_n of_o truth_n since_o it_o may_v both_o deceive_v and_o be_v deceive_v as_o be_v in_o this_o treatise_n prove_v nor_o to_o end_n controversy_n because_o all_o believe_v it_o not_o nor_o to_o abolish_v heresy_n which_o many_o time_n it_o may_v favour_v as_o be_v evident_a by_o some_o few_o example_n both_o of_o pope_n and_o counsel_n before_o allege_v for_o further_a example_n put_v the_o case_n that_o some_o of_o the_o church_n be_v persuade_v according_a to_o christ_n institution_n and_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n that_o the_o laity_n be_v not_o to_o be_v rob_v of_o the_o cup_n but_o be_v to_o receive_v the_o eucharist_n in_o both_o kind_n and_o hereby_o call_v the_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n not_o err_v into_o question_n how_o shall_v this_o be_v decide_v shall_v it_o be_v sufficient_a for_o the_o church_n or_o pope_n to_o say_v i_o can_v err_v and_o for_o proof_n thereof_o to_o call_v all_o his_o cardinal_n abbot_n and_o bishop_n to_o avow_v the_o same_o though_o it_o be_v contrary_a both_o to_o scripture_n father_n and_o the_o long_o continue_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o
1_o q._n 14._o par_fw-fr 1_o and_o this_o late_a allegation_n of_o the_o 29_o chap._n convince_v the_o author_n to_o be_v but_o a_o young_a father_n in_o respect_n of_o s._n basil_n for_o this_o bastard_n basil_n in_o the_o same_o chapter_n mention_v meletius_n as_o a_o bishop_n of_o ancient_a memory_n dead_a long_a before_o his_o time_n ●9_n basi_fw-la despi_v sanct._n ca._n ●9_n insuper_fw-la &_o meletium_fw-la illum_fw-la admirandum_fw-la eadem_fw-la fuisse_fw-la sententia_fw-la narrant_fw-la quicum_fw-la illo_fw-la vixerunt_fw-la sed_fw-la quid_fw-la opus_fw-la est_fw-la vetera_fw-la commemorare_fw-la immò_fw-la nunc_fw-la qui_fw-la sunt_fw-la orientales_fw-la etc._n etc._n moreover_o meletius_n that_o admirable_a bishop_n be_v of_o the_o same_o opinion_n as_o they_o that_o live_v with_o he_o report_v but_o what_o need_v i_o repeat_v ancient_a time_n the_o east_n bishop_n which_o be_v at_o this_o day_n etc._n etc._n now_o the_o true_a saint_n basil_n not_o only_o live_v at_o the_o same_o time_n with_o meletius_n but_o be_v make_v deacon_n by_o he_o 8._o socr_n li._n 4._o ca._n 26._o basilij_fw-la epi._n 56_o 57_o 58_o 89._o socr._n lib._n 5._o ca._n 8._o and_o write_v many_o letter_n to_o he_o and_o depart_v this_o life_n before_o he_o as_o the_o church_n story_n witness_v affirm_v helladius_n s._n basils_n successor_n and_o meletius_n be_v both_o present_a at_o the_o second_o general_n council_n at_o constantinople_n under_o theodosius_n and_o that_o must_v needs_o be_v when_o saint_n basil_n be_v dead_a i_o will_v yet_o enlarge_v this_o part_n out_o of_o the_o rheims_n testament_n because_o i_o know_v you_o high_o esteem_v the_o book_n and_o think_v it_o impossible_a that_o so_o many_o learned_a divine_n will_v abuse_v their_o reader_n with_o counterfeit_a father_n to_o confirm_v their_o doctrine_n 13._o anot._n phe._n test_n ●_o tim._n 4._o sect_n 13._o your_o rhemist_n allege_v a_o counterfeit_a epistle_n of_o alexander_n to_o prove_v holy_a water_n to_o be_v 1400._o year_n old_a and_o it_o bear_v date_n when_o traianus_n and_o helianus_n be_v consul_n which_o be_v never_o which_o proove_v it_o to_o be_v a_o counterfeit_n 10._o anot._n rhe._n test_n 1._o cor._n 11._o sect_n 10._o you_o allege_v chrysostome_n and_o s._n james_n mass_n for_o put_v water_n into_o the_o wine_n in_o the_o sacrament_n and_o that_o these_o mass_n be_v forge_v be_v thus_o prove_v 6._o ball_n in_o can._n 32._o conc._n constant_a 6._o first_o balsamon_n patriarch_n of_o antioch_n say_v that_o the_o liturgy_n of_o saint_n james_n be_v not_o extant_a in_o his_o time_n and_o in_o the_o liturgy_n that_o bear_v the_o name_n of_o chrysostom_n mass_n as_o it_o be_v set_v forth_o by_o claudius_n du_fw-fr sanctis_fw-la there_o be_v a_o prayer_n for_o pope_n nicholas_n and_o the_o emperor_n alexius_n whereof_o the_o one_o be_v near_o five_o hundred_o year_n the_o other_o 7._o hundred_o year_n after_o chrysostome_n for_o extreme_a unction_n you_o cite_v augustin_n the_o visitatione_n infirmor_fw-la and_o austin_n de_fw-fr tempore_fw-la 2._o anot._n rhe._n test_n cala._n 4._o sect_n 2._o the_o first_o place_n be_v prove_v a_o counterfeit_n by_o the_o censure_n of_o louvain_n 10._o in_o censur_n general_a tom._n 10._o as_o i_o have_v show_v in_o the_o first_o example_n of_o these_o counterfeit_a father_n and_o the_o other_o place_n de_fw-fr tempore_fw-la by_o the_o same_o warrant_n aug._n oper._n de_fw-fr aug._n saint_n augustine_n or_o as_o some_o think_v 7._o anot_n rhe._n test_n act_n 1_o sect_n 7._o fulgentius_n be_v allege_v by_o your_o rhemist_n to_o prove_v prayer_n and_o preise_n to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n marie_n say_v who_o can_v be_v able_a worthy_o to_o praise_v or_o thank_v thou_o receive_v our_o prayer_n obtain_v we_o our_o request_n for_o thou_o act_v the_o special_a hope_n of_o sinner_n by_o thou_o we_o hope_v for_o pardon_v of_o our_o sin_n and_o in_o thou_o o_o most_o bless_a be_v the_o expectation_n of_o our_o reward_n etc._n etc._n what_o great_a blasphemy_n can_v there_o be_v then_o to_o attribute_v that_o to_o the_o creature_n which_o be_v only_o due_a to_o the_o creator_n this_o be_v not_o to_o honour_v but_o to_o dishonour_v that_o bless_a virgin_n in_o give_v those_o attribute_n to_o she_o which_o to_o proper_a and_o peculiar_a to_o our_o saviour_n christ_n now_o for_o proof_n that_o this_o be_v a_o counterfeit_a austin_n he_o add_v the_o tehimonie_n of_o isiodorus_n who_o live_v 200._o year_n after_o s._n austin_n which_o proove_v that_o it_o can_v neither_o be_v saint_n augustine_n nor_o folgentius_n beside_o this_o augustine_n or_o fulgentius_n in_o the_o 39_o sermon_n doubt_v of_o the_o assumption_n of_o the_o virgin_n mary_n and_o yet_o when_o he_o may_v seem_v to_o make_v for_o their_o superstition_n he_o must_v be_v urge_v as_o the_o true_a austin_n so_o little_a conscience_n make_v they_o of_o the_o abuse_v their_o reader_n if_o it_o may_v hold_v they_o in_o blindness_n or_o give_v any_o colour_n to_o their_o error_n the_o question_n of_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n be_v none_o of_o saint_n augustine_n for_o in_o the_o 21_o question_n it_o be_v affirm_v that_o melchisedech_n be_v the_o holy_a ghost_n which_o say_v the_o true_a austin_n in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr haeres_fw-la refuteht_v as_o a_o heresy_n 10._o bellar._n de_fw-fr sacr._n can._n i_o 2._o ca._n 10._o this_o bellarmine_n confess_v and_o yet_o the_o authority_n of_o this_o book_n be_v often_o urge_v by_o the_o rhemist_n and_o other_o papist_n but_o above_o all_o their_o forgery_n 1._o annot._fw-la rhe._n sest_z act._n 1._o those_o touch_v the_o assumption_n of_o our_o lady_n be_v notable_a where_o for_o proof_n thereof_o saint_n denis_n s._n damascen_n athanasius_n and_o s._n barnard_n be_v allege_v in_o which_o they_o affirm_v that_o s._n denis_n write_v these_o and_o these_o thing_n where_o neither_o the_o author_n be_v s._n denis_n neither_o write_v he_o the_o thing_n which_o they_o allege_v now_o for_o proof_n that_o this_o denis_n be_v a_o counterfeit_n dionysius_n areopagita_n who_o they_o here_o call_v s._n denis_n be_v dead_a many_o yéer_v before_o the_o work_n which_o bear_v his_o name_n can_v be_v write_v for_o there_o be_v 4_o de_n divin_v ●ominib_fw-la c._n 4_o cite_v in_o they_o a_o say_n of_o ignatius_n out_o of_o a_o epistle_n which_o he_o write_v to_o the_o roman_n as_o he_o be_v go_v to_o suffer_v martyrdom_n ●reopag_n euseb_n in_o ●ronic_n methodi●_n in_o mar●rio_n dion_n ●reopag_n in_o the_o time_n of_o trajan_n the_o emperor_n now_o dionysius_n die_v ephes_n ignat._n epi._n ephes_n in_o the_o time_n of_o domitian_n certain_a year_n before_o and_o when_o ●thenarum_fw-la dion_n atop_o episc_n ●thenarum_fw-la ignatius_n write_v it_o onesimus_n be_v b._n of_o ephesus_n who_o succéede_v timothy_n your_o counterfeit_n ephe._n timoth._n ●isc_fw-la ephe._n allege_v it_o to_o timothy_n b._n of_o ephesus_n either_o after_o his_o decease_n or_o before_o it_o be_v write_v beside_o it_o be_v set_v down_o in_o that_o annotation_n that_o she_o live_v 63_o yéer_v be_v 25_o year_n after_o christ_n ascension_n as_o it_o be_v in_o their_o table_n of_o s._n paul_n when_o she_o be_v suppose_v to_o be_v assumpt_v now_o in_o the_o same_o table_n apostle_n after_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n it_o be_v show_v by_o their_o own_o account_n that_o it_o be_v 51_o year_n after_o christ_n nativity_n and_o 18_o year_n after_o his_o ascension_n before_o dionysius_n areopagita_n who_o the_o term_n s_o denis_n be_v convert_v by_o s._n paul_n which_o 34_o which_o act_n 9_o 5_o galat._n 1.18_o act_n 9.26_o galat._n 1_o 22_o act_n 13_o 4._o gal._n 2.1_o act_n 15.4_o act_n 16_o 5._o act_n 17_o 34_o the_o scripture_n also_o witness_v as_o any_o that_o will_v weigh_v the_o particular_a text_n shall_v evident_o perceive_v so_o that_o he_o can_v not_o be_v one_o of_o the_o brethren_n to_o witness_v her_o assumption_n she_o be_v assumpt_v take_v the_o large_a computation_n three_o year_n before_o he_o be_v convert_v be_v at_o that_o time_n no_o christian_a he_o may_v be_v prove_v a_o counterfeit_n by_o other_o reason_n which_o i_o omit_v now_o touch_v the_o thing_n which_o be_v by_o the_o rhemist_n father_v on_o he_o he_o say_v no_o more_o thereof_o but_o that_o among_o the_o bishop_n inspire_v of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n hierotheus_n excel_v all_o the_o rest_n save_o the_o apostle_n in_o praise_v christ_n goodness_n when_o himself_o and_o timothy_n and_o many_o of_o their_o holy_a brethren_n come_v together_o to_o behold_v the_o body_n which_o receive_v god_n and_o which_o the_o prince_n of_o life_n be_v in_o as_o for_o the_o miracle_n false_o forge_v by_o the_o rhemist_n and_o father_v on_o he_o of_o the_o apostle_n bring_v together_o s._n thomas_n come_v the_o 3_o day_n after_o the_o angel_n sing_v hymn_n three_o day_n the_o burial_n of_o the_o virgin_n body_n the_o desire_n of_o thomas_n to_o
see_v it_o the_o sepulchre_n open_v for_o his_o sake_n and_o the_o body_n assumpt_v into_o heaven_n he_o say_v not_o one_o word_n of_o these_o conceit_n nay_o he_o rather_o say_v against_o they_o for_o he_o note_v namely_o that_o james_n be_v also_o present_a the_o brother_n of_o the_o lord_n and_z peter_n the_o chief_a and_o ancient_a top_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o it_o be_v not_o likely_a he_o will_v have_v note_v two_o if_o they_o have_v be_v all_o present_a here_o be_v no_o less_o than_o seven_o lie_n in_o less_o than_o six_o life_n now_o let_v we_o see_v how_o damascen_n &_o your_o portesse_n agree_v for_o damascen_n say_v the_o angel_n sing_v almost_o three_o day_n the_o portesse_n three_o whole_a day_n damascen_n say_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o apostle_n will_v show_v to_o one_o of_o they_o who_o be_v absent_a the_o body_n the_o portesse_n say_v thomas_n who_o be_v absent_a will_v worship_v the_o body_n now_o what_o thou_o damascen_n be_v let_v your_o own_o doctor_n tell_v you_o who_o except_o against_o he_o for_o his_o tale_n of_o gregory_n the_o pope_n 〈◊〉_d ●anus_fw-la loco●m_fw-la theol_n 〈◊〉_d 11._o ●_o hessel_n ●nsure_v the_o astor_n sanct_n ●_o 3._o ●erm_n de_fw-fr funct_a in_o 〈◊〉_d and_o traiane_n the_o emperor_n thus_o damascen_n report_v that_o gregory_n while_o he_o go_v over_o the_o market_n place_n of_o trajan_n do_v pray_v for_o traian_n soul_n to_o god_n and_o behold_v a_o voice_n from_o heaven_n i_o have_v hear_v thy_o prayer_n and_o i_o pardon_v trajan_n but_o see_v thou_o pray_v no_o more_o to_o i_o for_o the_o wicked_a these_o be_v good_a place_n to_o prove_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a and_o yet_o it_o be_v against_o popish_a doctrine_n that_o prayer_n can_v deliver_v any_o out_o of_o hell_n and_o if_o he_o have_v be_v in_o purgatory_n the_o pope_n can_v have_v dispatch_v that_o of_o himself_o without_o pray_v the_o next_o be_v athan_n in_o euang._n de_fw-mi deipara_fw-mi who_o speak_v not_o one_o word_n of_o your_o miraculous_a fault_n and_o yet_o be_v the_o same_o athanasius_n reject_v for_o a_o bastard_n in_o your_o own_o edition_n atiebat_fw-la in_o edit_n petr._n nannij_fw-la lovan_n praefat_fw-la ad_fw-la episcop_n atiebat_fw-la the_o last_o be_v five_o sermon_n of_o s._n barnard_n in_o all_o which_o likewise_o there_o be_v not_o one_o word_n of_o that_o miracle_n so_o that_o unless_o they_o be_v dispose_v to_o lie_v for_o the_o whetstone_n it_o be_v to_o be_v wonder_v how_o they_o dare_v thus_o abuse_v their_o reader_n both_o with_o the_o name_n of_o counterfeit_a father_n and_o false_a forgery_n if_o i_o shall_v collect_v all_o such_o like_a stuff_n it_o will_v grow_v great_a than_o this_o small_a tract_n but_o let_v the_o christian_a reader_n judge_v of_o the_o rest_n as_o he_o prove_v these_o to_o be_v true_o bring_v against_o they_o and_o if_o any_o desire_n further_a proof_n of_o the_o rhemists_n sincerity_n in_o allege_v father_n let_v he_o observe_v these_o place_n viz._n the_o constitution_n of_o clement_n luk._n 4._o sect._n 1_o ignatius_n matt._n 4._o sect._n 2._o &_o 1_o peter_n 2._o sect._n 6_o dionysius_n areopag_n act._n 8._o sect._n 6._o hippolytus_n mat._n 24._o sect._n 5._o policarpus_fw-la act._n 6._o sect._n 1_o miltiadi_n fabian_n act._n 8._o sect._n 6._o s._n andrew_n s._n marshal_n hebr._n 10._o sect._n 11._o the_o mass_n of_o s._n james_n basil_n and_o chrysostome_n 1._o cor._n 11._o sect._n 10._o clicton_n for_o civil_a joh._n 11._o sect._n 1._o and_o paulinus_n joh._n 9_o sect._n 2._o all_o these_o be_v counterfeit_a father_n and_o urge_v by_o the_o papist_n under_o the_o name_n of_o true_a father_n to_o countenance_v their_o corrupt_a doctrine_n and_o therefore_o no_o marvel_n if_o popish_a leader_n instruct_v their_o follower_n to_o get_v we_o into_o the_o plain_a field_n of_o their_o motive_n out_o of_o our_o weak_a and_o false_a castle_n of_o only_a scripture_n as_o bristol_n the_o licentiate_a term_v it_o 48._o brist_n motiu_fw-la 48._o and_o it_o be_v no_o marvel_n that_o they_o have_v such_o store_n of_o the_o father_n and_o that_o our_o new_a master_n as_o they_o term_v we_o can_v compare_v with_o these_o father_n in_o the_o doctrine_n they_o deliver_v when_o they_o bring_v we_o only_o the_o name_n of_o father_n i_o can_v give_v instance_n likewise_o how_o the_o father_n be_v often_o contrary_a one_o to_o another_o yea_o contrary_a to_o themselves_o thus_o i_o hope_v it_o be_v plain_o prove_v by_o these_o four_o just_a exception_n that_o the_o father_n judgement_n be_v no_o infallible_a rule_n for_o a_o man_n to_o build_v his_o faith_n on_o though_o it_o be_v embellish_v with_o the_o church_n exposition_n and_o yet_o we_o reverence_v and_o honour_v they_o as_o man_n that_o have_v bring_v great_a light_n to_o the_o understanding_n of_o the_o scripture_n but_o what_o do●_n you_o understand_v by_o intitul_a the_o ancient_a father_n with_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n papist_n i_o mean_v rai_fw-fr har●●g_v rai_fw-fr that_o the_o joint_a consent_n of_o the_o father_n in_o all_o doctrine_n deliver_v by_o they_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n protestant_n 15_o what_o do_v you_o mean_v by_o the_o joint_a consent_n of_o the_o father_n papist_n i_o mean_v by_o the_o joint_a consent_n of_o the_o father_n that_o which_o all_o or_o the_o most_o part_n of_o they_o do_v deliver_v for_o truth_n wherein_o if_o there_o be_v any_o difference_n the_o great_a number_n be_v to_o be_v follow_v for_o a_o few_o may_v be_v deceive_v more_o easy_o than_o many_o protestant_n 16_o this_o rule_n seem_v to_o be_v very_o uncertain_a for_o you_o know_v that_o king_n ahab_n be_v deceive_v by_o the_o consent_n of_o false_a prophet_n 11._o 2._o chron._n 1●_n 5_o 11._o even_o 400._o against_o micaiah_n yea_o when_o the_o father_n in_o the_o great_a council_n of_o nice_a be_v about_o to_o decree_v that_o bishop_n priest_n &_o deacon_n shall_v not_o use_v their_o wife_n paphnutius_fw-la alone_a 2d_o sozom._n li._n 1._o cap._n 2d_o rise_v up_o in_o the_o midst_n of_o their_o council_n and_o free_o contradict_v it_o and_o prevail_v beside_o in_o the_o three_o exception_n before_o it_o be_v plain_o show_v that_o the_o great_a number_n of_o father_n be_v by_o yourselves_o reject_v in_o the_o division_n of_o the_o commandment_n and_o in_o the_o controversy_n between_o s._n austin_n and_o hierom_n touch_v peter_n reproof_n par_fw-fr 1._o wherein_n yourselves_o grant_v ●_o torrensis_n confess_v aug._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 1._o tim_fw-la ●_o that_o austin_n judge_v more_o sound_o what_o be_v therefore_o then_o to_o be_v do_v that_o a_o certain_a and_o sure_a ground_n may_v be_v find_v out_o papist_n then_o a_o better_a and_o more_o sure_a way_n be_v that_o which_o by_o the_o faithful_a pastor_n of_o the_o church_n be_v decree_v in_o a_o general_a council_n which_o can_v err_v protestant_n 17_o indeed_o i_o must_v confess_v it_o be_v a_o sure_a way_n to_o build_v our_o faith_n upon_o those_o counsel_n which_o can_v err_v but_o how_o shall_v we_o be_v assure_v that_o they_o can_v err_v papist_n we_o be_v assure_v by_o the_o scripture_n that_o the_o church_n can_v err_v as_o be_v evident_a by_o these_o place_n follow_v 18.20_o mat._n 18.20_o our_o saviour_n christ_n say_v that_o when_o two_o or_o three_o be_v gather_v together_o in_o his_o name_n that_o he_o will_v be_v in_o the_o midst_n and_o 13._o joh._n 16_o 13._o he_o promise_v to_o send_v unto_o his_o church_n the_o holy_a ghost_n which_o shall_v lead_v they_o into_o all_o truth_n 3._o 1._o tim._n 3._o and_o s._n paul_n call_v it_o the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n upon_o which_o place_n and_o many_o other_o which_o for_o brevity_n i_o omit_v we_o conclude_v that_o the_o church_n can_v err_v which_o to_o speak_v as_o the_o schoolman_n do_v we_o call_v the_o church_n representative_a because_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v there_o represent_v in_o a_o gerall_a council_n protestant_n 18_o take_v heed_n what_o you_o do_v will_v you_o bring_v the_o church_n contrary_a to_o the_o judgement_n of_o many_o learned_a papist_n mention_v in_o the_o preface_n of_o this_o book_n to_o take_v her_o authority_n from_o the_o scripture_n and_o to_o be_v try_v by_o they_o whether_o it_o may_v err_v if_o you_o do_v it_o will_v be_v the_o utter_a ruin_n and_o destruction_n of_o your_o religion_n for_o the_o scripture_n will_v convince_v the_o council_n of_o constance_n of_o error_n in_o take_v away_o the_o cup_n from_o the_o laity_n contrary_a to_o s._n paul_n express_a commandment_n say_v 11._o 1._o cor._n 11._o let_v a_o man_n examine_v himself_o and_o so_o let_v he_o eat_v of_o this_o bread_n and_o drink_v of_o this_o cup._n and_o contrary_a to_o the_o institution_n and_o commandment_n of_o christ_n himself_o say_v drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o 26.27_o mat._n 26.27_o