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A18055 An ansvvere made by Oliuer Carter, Bacheler of Diuinitie: unto certaine popish questions and demaundes Carter, Oliver, 1540?-1605. 1579 (1579) STC 4697; ESTC S108169 79,017 198

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priuiledge I am sure you will say that you receiued it of Peter the Apostle of Christ because that herevpon you doe ground all your church and religion For that as you say Peter being the cheefe and head of the Apostles hauing the keyes of the Kingdome of heauen cōmitted vnto him being Bishop of Rome it commeth by discent and orderly succession vnto all the Bishops of Rome But this your supposition I vtterly denie that either Peter was the cheife of the Apostles or that the keyes were solely and only giuen vnto him by Christ or that Peter euer was at Rome That Peter was not the heade of the Apostles it is playne by the testimonie of S. Paule who saith That he which was mightie by Peter in the Apostolike ouer the circumcision was also mightie by him towardes the Gentils And againe he saith when Iames Cephas and Iohn knewe of the grace that was giuen vnto me whiche are compted to be pillers they gaue to me to Barnabas the right hands of felowship that we should preach vnto the Gentils they to the circumcision And your ordinarie glose vpon this word saith That Paule did not learne of others as of his superiours but did conferre with them as with his friendes and equals When the. 2. sonnes of Zebede desired to be exalted and that the other tenne disdayned therefore at them our Sauiour Christ called them all before him saying Ye knowe that the Lordes of the Gentils haue dominion ouer them that they be great exercise auctoritie ouer thē but it shall not bee so among you but whosoeuer will be great among you let him bee your seruant and whosoeuer will be chiefe among you let him bee your minister When the Apostles disputed by the way for superioritie our Sauiour Christe saide If anie man desire to be firste or chiefe the same shal be last of all and seruaunt vnto all And oftentimes the Apostle Paule calleth all the Apostles Fellowe laborers Workers together and Companions That godly father Cyprian sayth Peter was euen the same that the other Apostles were indued with like fellowshippe both in honour and also in dignitie And Chrisostome writinge vppon the Epistle to the Galathians saieth Paule had no neede of Peter neither did he lacke his consent but was his fellowe companion in honour Nowe for the keyes you say that Christ gaue them onely vnto Peter When he said Vnto thee will I giue the keyes of the kingdome of heauen First you must vnderstande that the keyes of which our sauiour Christ heare maketh mencion are the worde and scriptures of God And so Saint Chrisostome doeth expounde these words saying Clauis est scientia scripturarum per quam aperiturianua veritatis The keye is the knowledge of the holy scriptures by the which the gate of the trueth is opened And these keyes were not proper to Peter but common to all For Saint Augustine saith That when Christ did saie vnto Peter I will giue vnto thee the keyes of the Kingdome of heauen he meant his whole church An other saith The keye beareres are the ministers of Gods word vnto whome is committed the teaching of the word and the interpretation of the Scriptures An other sayth This saying vnto thee I will giue the keyes of the kingdome of Heauen is common also vnto other the words which followe as spoken vnto Peter are common to all Thus you may see that Peter neither hath any diuinitie aboue the rest neither the keyes which be the scriptures do belonge more vnto him then to the other Apostles and faithfull ministers of Gods church Nowe to proue that Peter was neuer at Rome It appeareth euidently that our sauiour Christ gaue Peter and the rest a charge to tarry at Hierusalem after his ascention who continued there preaching the Gospel insomuch that he conuerted at one sermon three thousande soules Hee is put in prison and beinge deliuered was charged not to speak any more in the name of Iesus Notwithstandinge he with the rest did preach still and being put in prison againe was deliuered by an Angell who setteth open the prison doores The Apostle Peter with his fellowes cease not to preach both dayly in the temple and also in priuate houses Paule is conuerted the first yeare after Christes ascention receiueth the holy Ghost yet he remaineth at Damascus and in the coūtreis adioyning for the space of three yeares after his conuersion in the fourthe yeare he cometh to Hierusalem to see Peter where he aboade with him fifteene dayes Peter then goeth to Ioppa where he healeth Aeneas which had kept his bedde èight yeares and was sicke of the palsie he rayseth Tabitha from death Hee is sent for vnto Caesarea where he conuerteth Cornelius Peter returneth to Hierusalem where hauing some contention with them of the circumcision he sheweth the cause why he went vnto the Gentills Peter is put in prison againe by Herodes commaundement and sleeping betwene two souldiers bound with two chaines the Angel smot him on the side and the chaines fel of and he was brought forth of prison and entred into the citie the iron gate opened to them by it owne accorde and they came to Maries house Shortly after he goeth againe to Caesaria where he abideth I shewed before that in the fourth yeare after Paules conuersion he came to Hierusalem to see Peter Then fourteene yeares after that he cometh to Hierusalem againe where the Apostles helde a Councell together where Peter was present where Iames Peter and Iohn gaue vnto Paule and Barnabas the right hands of felloweshippe that they shoulde preache vnto the Gentills And Peter and his fellowes vnto the Iewes For Paule had saide before that the Gospell ouer the vncircumcision which were the Gentilles was committed to him as the Gospell ouer the Circumcision which were in the Iewes was committed vnto Peter Then Paule goeth vnto Antioche Whether Peter after a short time did also come whome Paule rebuked before all men because he caused the Gentills to liue after the manner of the Iewes These thinges should be done about nineteene yeares after Paule his conuersion in which time it is manifest that Peter had not bene at Rome Whereby they bee deceaued whiche affirme that Peter was Bishop of Rome fiue and twentie yeares for that nowe he should haue bene in the middest of his Bishoprike and that he could not after this time be fiue and twentie yeares there it is most plaine for that he liued in all after Christes ascention but three and thirtie yeares But nowe to proceede to my purpose that is to proue that Peter was neuer at Rome by such coniecturall argumentes as will hardly by the Scriptures bee disproued About two and twentie yeares after Paule his conuersion vnderstanding that Claudius the Emperour had commaunded all the Iewes to depart from Rome he
thy heade meaning th● woman Which text the Louanistes woul● seeme to reforme do put in ipse referring it to Christ You may see into what miseries you woulde bring vs to haue vs to beleue that the Virgin Marie should brus● the Serpents head whereas the words are to be vnderstanded of the seede of the woman Likewise in the Epistle vnto the Corinthians your olde translation hath these wordes Omnes quidē resurgemus ▪ sed non omnes imutabimur Wee shall all rise againe but wee shall not all be changed Which words be vntruely translated for all shall not rise againe because that at Christes comming some shall be founde aliue yet neuerthelesse All must be chaunged and this corruptible flesh must put on corruptiō But you wil perhaps say that the fault is not in the translation but in the Printer Why then hath your Church suffered the same translation to haue beene printed so often and hath not corrected these faultes Nay why with your Tridentine generall councell precisely say Let no man be so bolde or presume by any manner of colour to refuse the old common translation of the Bible To conclude you persuade the world if you haue authoritie not onely to allowe what translation ye list but also as your owne Canonistes doe auouch that the Pope the heade of your Church can at 〈◊〉 pleasure dispense against the Lawe of God against the Lawe of nature against the Apostles against all the commaundements of the olde and newe Testament That hee is Christes Lieftetenaunt not onely ouer thinges in heauen ouer thinges in earth and ouer things ●● hell but also ouer the angels both good and badde whereas the true Church of God hath not at any time made her selfe ●●udge ouer the worde and lawe of God 〈◊〉 alwaies hath vsed subiection vnto the ●●●e grounding all her religion and faith ●●on the same worde And this you must needes confesse vnlesse you will denie a knowen trueth that we whose religion you doe so vehemently withstande haue alwayes perswaded the people not to beleeue vs one iotte further then we bring the woorde of God for our warrant And whereas you further enquire what Church hath had the custodie of the Bible and hath most safely preserued it I must needes say that God of his singuler mercie towardes his Churche by his diuine prouidence hath alwayes preserued his woorde to the comforte of his children as he preserued Elias in the wildernesse Daniel in the Lions denne the three children in the fornace Howe I pray you hath the Byble bene preserued by your Churche sith the whole worlde can testifie howe you haue burned the olde and newe Testament whiche thing is yet freshe in mans memorie● Did not Cutbert Tunstall being then Bishop of London cause the newe Testament to be burned at Pawles crosse in London as your Churche learned of Iehoakim king of Iuda who threw the boke which the Prophete Ieremie by Goddes commaundement had indited conteining the wrath of God against Iuda into the fier But you will say the Testamentes were falselie and vntrulie translated and therefore were burned If that had beene the cause it had bene your partes rather to haue disclosed and quoated forth the erroures and to haue amended the faultes Doeth the mother cast away the milke wherewith the children shoulde be nourished for that sometimes motes doe fall into it but rather culleth forth the moates giueth the Milke to the children euen so you ought to haue done What faultes were I beseech you in that translation you neuer noted anie if there had bene as indeede there were none why haue not you set forth a better what doctour of your Churche or fauorer of your Romishe Religion hath written in whose workes can not be found some errour yet we burned them not but are content to giue them the readinge and do reuerence them so farre as they agree with Gods truthe Further if ●n Angell should speake or write we ought not to beleue him Iudge you nowe laying away all affection whether your Church ●● ours doe better esteme of the Bible or ●● the better preserue the same Papist SHew me why our common knowen church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion contained in the same Shewe me why she kepte not as trulie and as faithfully the true sense of Gods woorde as she preserued the worde it selfe Shewe me why we shoulde beleeue the Papistes as ye tearme them for the worde it selfe and yet we shoulde beleeue you Protestantes for the meaning of the worde rather than them Shewe me why you beleeued our Churche telling you this to be Gods booke and will not credite her aduouching this to be the true and vndoubted sense of the same booke and last of all shewe me why you beleeued the elder knowen Churche affirming this to be the word and doe not beleeue her affirming Luther to be an Heretike Shewe me good reason or Scripture for these poyntes and I recant Answeare YF you meane by your common knowen Churche the Churche of Rome as you will easily assent therevnto then your Church is more common than true For triall whereof it is plaine and that by Saint Barnarde that the pastoures of your Churche of Rome keepe not the spouse of God whiche is his Churche but they destroy her They keepe not the flock but they kill and deuoure And one whiche writeth of your Church in that great and solemne assemblie at Constance saieth They did quenche the spirite they did dispise the voice of the prophetes they persecuted Christ in his members and it was altogether a persecuting churche Barnard in an other place likewise crieth out O miserable Rome which in the time of our Elders hast brought foorth the lightes of worthie Fathers but in our dayes hast brought forth the monstruous darkenes shamefull and slanderous to the time to come An other calleth Rome a schoole of errour a temple of heresie And your old friend Thomas Becket whome you haue canonized for a Saint saith Our holy mother of Rome is become an harlot and hath prostituted her self that is hath set her selfe open to euerie man for reward And what neede we goe farre one of your owne nest in the late councell of Trent sheweth his iudgement of your Churche of Rome They haue brought to passe saieth he that godlinesse is turned into hypocrisie and that the sauoure of life is turned into the sauour of death Woulde to GOD they were not gone with one generall consent from religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist from God to Epicure saying with wicked heartes and filthie mouthes there is no god Truth seketh not to be shrouded in corners I haue noted before a fewe places amongst many in which you haue corrupted the text of the Byble You seeme to vrge this matter instantly that your Church hath kept and
other mens writing and so would I haue others vnderstand myne It is most true that Origem Ambrose Augustine Hierom the other fathers of the Church haue their seuerall errors one doth write against an other most vehemently What maruell is it that these did differ seing that ●he Apostles thē selues could not agree alwayes in all pointes Paule did withstand Peter in the face before all men Platina one of your owne storie writers affirmeth that the Popes them selues whom you brage so much of did repugne one an others decrees The next Pope saith he either breaketh or vtterly repealeth his predecessors decrees For these little petie Popes had no other studie to occupie them selues with all but only to deface the name of the former Popes of which church were not only these Popes but also your owne scholemen pillers of your religion How came it to passe that these thinges were vttered in your owne boks Barnardus non vidit omnia Barnarde did not see all things Hic magister non tenetur Here one maister is not to bee receiued Thomas Aquine saith that we are not bōnd vpon the necessitie of saluatiō to beleue not only the Doctours of the Churche as Hierom. August ▪ but also neither the church it selfe sauing only matters concerning the substaunce of faith But lett all mens aucthoritie passe and receiue that remaining in eight Persons the which which the holy Apostle wriceth Whosoeuer bringeth not the Doctrine of the Gospell receiue them not And againe If wee or an Angell from heauen doe preach any other doctrine thē you haue receiued hold him accursed To conclud we ought not to leane either to this man or that to the right hand or to the left to this church or that church in any thing whatsoeuer further then the truth of Gods word doth direct vs Neither doeth our saluation depend vppon anie earthly man but we ascribe it wholy to our lord sauiour Christ by whose stripes onely we are healed Papist 11 MOreouer I aske of the Protestants whether in the time on which they hold the true Church to haue bene hidden or lost the people that learned this article of their Creede I beleue the catholik Church was bound to goe from the church which they sawe and which taught them both that article all other things touching their faith by which they were christened receiued al other sacramentes commodities of saluation And whether they were bound to seeke for this vnknowne closse congregation which they could neither come vnto nor by ●hich they neuer receaued any benefit nor ●ould receiue any so forsake the church ●y whome and in whome they receiued both ●heir faith sacraments Shew me therfore ●hat the Christian men of those dates were charged to beleue any other church or seke for any other church thē that which taught them the articles of the church and baptized them And I recant Answeare 11 YOu further demaūd Whether the people when the Church was hid were bound to goe from the church which they sawe seeke the vnknowne church beleue the same If you will vouchsafe to peruse that which I haue noted heretofore which is also confirmed by sundrie learned authorities viz. that the true church of God is to be sought for to be found only by the scripturs which are the foundations of the same church you may be satisfied heerein that the people ought to stay them selues vpon the scriptures not to beleue any further then Gods word leadeth thē The true church of God is not alwayes most apparant in earth or consistinge of the greatest number This appeareth by Noah in setting him selfe against all the worlde the true Church onely excepted then were saued in the arke and all the worlde else drowned Was not Lot his small familie the true Church of God deliuered by the Angells and the fiue whole citties destroyed ▪ where was the Church in the time of Elias when he complained most bitterly and said I haue bene verie ielous for the Lord God of hoastes For the children of Israel haue forsaken the couenant broken downe the altars slaine thy Prophetes with the swoord I only am lefte and they seeke my life to take it away Where was the Church when Esay the Prophet cried out How is the faithfull cittie become an harlot it was full of iudgement iustice lodged therein but now they are murtherers their siluer is become drosse their wine is mixed with water their Princes are rebellious and companions of theeues Where was the Church when Dauid the Prophet did breake for the into theise words there is not one that doeth good no not one If there were any Church of God in these times in which these Prophe●es liued no doubt it was in verie fewe or els hid altogether otherwise they would not so greeuouslie haue complained of the want thereof And yet there was in all ●ese times a Church in outwarde forme ●ewe to the iudgment of man supposed to ● the true Church where the Iewes the ●●e Church at what time they bosted most ● the outwarde beautie of their Church ●ying We are the temple of the Lord or ●hen they sayd wee are the children of God whereas euen at that time they went ● whoring after their owne inuentions But as the Scribes Pharisies vaunted ●em selues that they were the true Church ●f God the Disciples of Moses the sonnes ●f Abraham where as in deede by the te●●imonie of our sauiour Christ they wor●●ipped God in vaine teachinge the pre●eptes and doctrines of men and erred for ●hat they knowe not the scriptures were ●ypocrites dissemblers deuouring wi●owes houses vnder a colour of longe prai●r euen so you with your Church of Rome ●hough you bragge neuer so much of your ●uccession and aucthoritie the holy ghost ●lainly sheweth that your Babilon shall ●aue a fal Our sauiour Christ telleth both ●ou the pharisees that you haue made through your own deuises the temple of God adenn of theues Triumph neuer so much that you are the catholike church ▪ that you are in the arke of Noah you are none of Gods neither shall be till you renounce abolish your vaine ceremonies ● false worshipping of God other thinges which you do contrarie to his holy worde● The true church of God is cōpared to the Moone which sometimes is full clere a● bright sometimes in the Eclips is wan ● darke so the church of God is now great now small now calme and in quietnesse nowe subiect to tempests and troubles nowe in many nowe in fewe And therefore you are greatlie deceiued in that you do thinke the Church vtterly extinguished whē it appeareth not at your pleasure Thus you may learne by sundrie writers that God hath had wil haue alwaies his church whether it be more or lesse One which hath written the Forte of