that was against vs and spoyling powers and principalities he made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in himselfe Yee died and were buried with Christ who fastned the handwriting of ordinances to the Crosse that he might abolish it from hauing any right to tie or yoke his members Yee likewise were quickned and raised together with Christ who rising spoyled powers and principalities and triumphed ouer them in his own Person that he alone might be Lord of quicke and dead of Men and Angels so that these words spoyling powers and Principalities and triumphing ouer them are not referred to the Crosse for any thing that appeareth in the Text but to Christs Resurrection and take their truth and force from his subiecting all power in heauen and earth vnder him by his rising againe from the dead This triumph ouer Satan and all his kingdome the same Apostle to the Ephesians setteth downe as a consequent to Christs death and pertinent to his Resurrection Ascending on high he led Captiuitie Captiue and this he ascended what meaneth it but that he descended first into the lower parts of the earth So that ascending from the lower parts of the earth he led Captiuitie Captiue which is all one with he triumphed ouer powers and Principalities The Syriack translation of the New Testament together with the ancientest of the Latine Fathers doth not only so interpret the place but it doth expresse so much in the verie text that Christ had this conquest after his death The Syriack translation sayth By the dispoiling or putting off his bodie Christ made â—… shew of principalitics and powers and confounded them openly backnumch in his owne person For kenumah whence backnumch is framed in that tongue properly signifieth a Person The translations which the eldest Fathers of the Latine church either made or followed contained as much Apostolus de Christo refers vt exutus carnem potestates dehonestauit palam triumphatis illis in semetipso The Apostle reporteth of Christ sayth Nouatian how putting off his flesh he disgraced powers openly triumphing ouer them in his owne person Neither doth he idlely propose him putting off his flesh but because hee would haue him conceiued in his resurrection to put it on againe Hilarie sometimes translated it Exutus carne and sometimes Spolians se carne Principatus potestates tradux it cum fiducia triumphans cos in semetipso Christ putting off or stripping himselfe of flesh led powers and principalities captiues with boldnesse triumphing ouer them in his on ne person Both which he repeateth in his ninth booke shewing how they may stand together and adding Spoliata enim caro Christus est mortuus The flesh put off was Christ now dead So Ambrose alleageth this place Carnem se exuit Christ put of his flesh And Pacianus Exuens se carnem traduxit potestates libere triumphans eas in semetipso Christ putting off his flesh carried powers as Captiues freely triumphing ouer them in his owne person S. Austen often citeth the same place interpreting the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the rest doe Exuens se carnem or carne and thereby noting Christes laying aside of mortalitie Apostolus dicit exuens se carnem principatus potestates exemplauit fiducialiter triumphans eos in semetipso The Apostle sayth Christ putting off flesh made an example of principalities and powers and confidently triumphed ouer them in his owne person Where he sayth Christ douested himselfe of flesh by flesh in this place we vnderstand the mortalitie of flesh for which the bodie is properly called flesh Zanchius a learned and aduised Reader and weigher of antiquitie not onely followeth this exposition himselfe saying Resurgendo de inferis triumphauit principatusque potestates expoliat as in triumphum captiuas abduxit vt est ad Coloss. 2. By rising from the lower parts Christ triumphed and spoiled principalities and powers carying them captiue in maner of a triumph as is in the second to the Colossians but he also giueth his testimony of it Therefore nothing hindereth but what Paul here writeth we may interpret as the words doe sound of a reall triumph of Christes soule seuered from his bodie in the sight of God onely and of the blessed spirits specially since the Fathers for the most part do so expound it and of our writers not a few nor the meanest Bethinke your selfe now how wide you range from the Apostles meaning by the exposition of so many learned and ancient writers Christ rose Conquerer of death and hell Ergo say you the diuels tormented Christes soule before he died with the very paines of the damned If any man be so patient to like this Logicke and not to laugh at it I much maruell seeing the Conclusion so meere a stranger to the Antecedent which hath no coherence with it But some you will say expound it of the Crosse. That is more repugnant to your purpose than the former for if not only after but euen on the Crosse Christ had that apparent and glorious triumph ouer Satan and all his power which the Apostle speaketh of then was Satan farre from tormenting Christes soule with the paines of hell as you imagine There was a conflict you thinke before the conquest A conflict argueth a resistance for the time but no preualence There was a battell in heauen sayth S. Iohn Michael and his Angels fought against the dragon and the dragon fought and his Angels but they preuailed not And the great dragon called the Diuell and Satan was cast out into the earth Shall we say that the dragon and his angels euen the Diuell and his assistants preuailed against Christ because they resisted and encountered him If this please you not take the Similitude which our Sauiour himselfe vseth of his owne doings towards the Diuell When a strong man armed keepeth his house the things that he possesseth are in peace but when a stronger then he entreth vpon him and ouer commeth him he taketh away all his armour wherein he trusted and diuideth his spoiles And no man can enter into a strong mans house and take away his goods except he first binde that strong man and then spoile his house If Christ then did enter on Satan and binde him and disarme him and so spoile him that he might make an open shew of him and of all his power what necessitie is there that Christ being the stronger should be endangered or oppressed by Satan farther then hee himselfe would The conquest was bloudie for so much as in ouercomming Satan Christ lost his life He lost it not he layed it downe to put the diuell to greater confusion for when he was not onely weake and wounded vnto death but past all helpe and hope as Satan in his pride presumed then Christ raised himselfe from the dead and ouerthrew the whole kingdome and strength of Satan spoiling him of all his
he the preeminence in all things if all the Patriarks and Prophets were there before him againe the words of Abraham reach no farder then vnto men they restraine not Angels from descending and ascending and much lesse the sonne of God If none without exception could goe fro heauen to hel as you would construe Abrahams speach how fell the Diuell and his Angels from heauen to hell how did Saint Iohn see an Angel come downe from heauen hauing the key of the bottomlesse pitte binding shutting vp Satan in that pitte if Angels may passe from the one place to the other how much more might Christ who is the Lord head of Angels and hath the keies of hell and death But since the Scriptures anouch Christes soule was not left in hell there are plainer and exprâ—…sser words for the being of his soule in hell then in Abrahams bosome so if there be no returne thence no not for Christ himselfe then by your lame and lewd collection you condemne Christs soule to perpetuall prison in hell And how commeth it to pasâ—…e by your diuinity that Abraham must receaue Christs soule into his bosome who was the Redeemer and Sauiour of Abraham is your skill so great that you forget Christ to be the sonne of God and so meeter to receaue Abrahams soule into his protection then to be receaued of Abraham but what will you not say and suppose to continue the credit of your conceits in the eies of the simple though no wise man vnlesse wedded to your deuices will any thing be mooued with these weake suggestions As touching Austens diuers opinion and yours see before page 29 and your page 360. Could you find any diuersity worth the marking between Austens opinion and mine touching Christs words on the crosse to the thiâ—…fe your modesty would serue you to make the most of it but if I repeat diuers opinions of learned writers and leaue the Reader to his Christian liberty which he best liketh what offence take you at that except it be that I follow not your trade which is to despise all the world besides your selfe Indeed in your 29 Page you say I reiect Austens exposition of Christes words to the Thiefe this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise which Austen vnderstandeth of the thiefes soule and Christs diuine presence in Paradise but you keepe your wont to tell taâ—…es for trueth and to wast words when you want good matter For I doe not reiect Austens exposition but only adde as now I doe since there is no Scripture to fasten Christs soule to hell for the whole time of his death Christs soule might after death at diuers times be in Paradise and in hell Wherein I leaue the Reader to his discretion which of those two expositions he will embrace Neither did I in this anouch more then Austen himselfe els where is content to yeeld For reasoning against Felicianus the Arrian he saith Seddicet aliquis deitatis hanc non animae Christi credimus vocem But some will say we beleeue this to day shalt thou be with me in Paradise was the voice of Christs deity and not of his soule To which part then of the thiefe doe we take this promise was made this day saith Christ to the thiefe shalt thou be with me in Paradise whose body the common death had inclosed vntill the resurrection to come It was then the soule of the thiefe to which Christ promised and performed this Whereupon he concludeth Si igitur mortuo corpore ad Paradisum anima mox vocatur quemquamne adhuc tam impium credimus qui dicere audeat quoniam anima seruatoris nostritriduo illo corporeae mortis apud inferos custodiae mancipetur If then the body of the thiefe dying his soule were presently called to Paradise shall we thinke any man so wicked as to dare say that the soule of our Sauiour during the three dayes that his bodie lay dead was held in the custodie of hell So that though S. Austen acknowledge the other sense of Christes diuine presence in Paradise to be multo expeditior ab ijs omnibus ambiguitatibus liber farre the easier and freer from all obiections yet he doth not endure that any man should so fasten the soule of Christ to hell for the time of his death that Christ might not thence depart and be in Paradise when pleased him as well as the Thiefe but must stay in hell as if he were kept in custodie How you will doe to maintaine that Christ went indeed to them but presently left them that he might goe to hell I know not In this I doubt you walke without your guide If I did vse any such wordes that Christ must presently post from heauen to hell as if he were like to be benighted afore he came thither you might busie your braines with lacke of time and want of guides but if Angels present themselues heere from heauen in a moment and time almost insensible what should hinder the soule of Christ endued with greater power and might then any Angel to goe at what time and with what speed he would to doe that which the Scriptures testifie he did If then the Prophets and Apostles beare witnesse that his soule was in hell and there not left but ascending vpward ledde captiuitie caâ—…tiue and spoiled powers and principalities why play you the iade in iesting at an Article of the Christian faith as if the way were long and tedious betweene Paradise and hell so that Christ must haue some time and helpe to dispatch so great a iourney The Apostle teacheth that the resurrection of the dead shall be in a moment and in the twinckling of an eie If so generall and strange a worke as to haue all their soules out of Paradise and hell ioyned to their bodies and their persons aliue caught vp to the iudgement seate of Christ in the aire shall be wrought in all the sonnes of men elect and reprobate at an instant what incredible thing is this except to an infidell that he which made heauen and earth with a word should in as short time as he saw cause shew his humane soule to the powers of darknesse in the midst of their kingdome and take all strength and rule from them and lead them captiue at his pleasure And therefore neuer calculate so curiously the distance or passage from Paradise to hell if these things were not marueilous in mans eies they were not meet workes for the Sonne of God but examine soberly whether the Scripture auouch any such presence of Christes soule in hell and conquest ouer hell And if that appeare teach men to leaue the rest to the mightie hand of God which brought the soule of his Sonne thither in what time and maner he thought good and might best make for his glory I adde that which is cleere and certaine yea that which your selfe rightly beleeueth and professeth with
hell And further that being in heauen yet staied not there as you say but immediately came out againe to goe to hell Againe that an humane soule being in the depth of hell yet should feele no paines and that being locally in hell it should come out thence also What can be more against the generall rules of the Scriptures then these things You haue laboured heard and caught a herring With much a doe you haue found at length that Christ was a good man he is more beholding to you now then afore when you told vs he was all defiled accursed and hatefull to God for and with our sinnes Your leasure did not serue you to thinke that he was also the true and eternall Sonne of God and therefore no force of death or hell could preuaile on his body or soule farder then he was willing for the declaration of his humilitie and manifestation of his power and glorie Is it against your faith and charitie that all knees of those in heauen and earth and hell should stoupe and bow to the humane nature of the sonne of God Is your Creed so crazed that you can not beleeue that Christ rising spoiled Principalities and powers and made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in his owne person Is grace so farre gone from you that you may not endure to heare that Christ descended first into the lower parts of the earth and then ascended againe on hie and ledde captiuitie captiue and gaue gifts to men whereof deliuerance and freedome from all power and danger of hell and Satan were not the last nor least But he was a man you say though a good man and therefore you thinke he must be subiected to the same straights that other mortall and sinnefull men are to feele paines in hell and not to come out from thence This which you call faith is infidelitie against the Sonne of God whiles you seeke to tie him with the same chaines of darknesse and weakenesse wherewith wicked and sinnefull men are tied that are adiudged to euerlasting damnation To be condemned to hell is for misbeleeuers and misliuers to destroy the power and strength of hell was meete only for the manhood of the Sonne of God That he felt no paines there and returned thence were the smallest parts of his glorious triumph ouer hell and Satan It was impossible as Peter teacheth that the paines of death or hell should take hold on him and his soule could not be left there As for comming out of heauen to goe to hell to subdue and destroy the same what more inconuenience is in that then in comming from heauen to the graue there to take vp his body when he restored it to life that wicked men condemned to hell cannot come thence nor find ease there I find it testified in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus that the Sonne of God in his humane soule could not goe thither without abiding there for euer and suffering the paines of hell as well as others I find no such grounds in all the Scriptures He saith of himselfe I haue the keies of hell and of death that is all power and command ouer them He had power then not onely to free himselfe from your faithlesse doubts and dangers in hell but to free all his elect from thence and to subiect all things and enemies and so the strength and rage of hell and Satan vnder his feet If the trueth of God bind you to beleene that an Angell comming downe from heauen cast the Dwell into the bottomlesse pit and there bound him and loosed him as he was prescribed doth not your faith serue you to confesse that all power in heauen and in earth and much more in hell was giuen vnto Christ and that as well ouer rebellious Diuels as obedient Angels who adored him when he was brought into the world and serued him the time that he was in the world and are not stronger then his humane nature but receaue power from him as being personally God and Man these be the grounds not of faith but of ignorance which faile vnder your feete and shew that you build on Sand which hath no force when it commeth to be sifted From the grounds of faith which are none you come to the circumstances of the place it selfe and say they are all against me but I that hitherto haue tried you so false conceited in euery thing will not trust you to be true-tonged in this whatsoeuer you pretend These wordes of Dauid thou wilt not leaue my soule in hades nor suffer thine holy one to see corruption I said conteined a speciall prerogatiue verified in none but in the true Messias and Sauiour of the world To this you replie I denie it heere is no such prerogatiue mentioned It is all one skill in you to denic trueths and affirme falsehoodes you cannot doe the one without the other And heere your fansies thrung so fast one on another that they thrust ech other out of doores The maine scope of Saint Peters purpose in this place you doe not or will not vnderstand and on that error you build the rest of your reasons which are all erroneous like the roote whence they come Saint Peter you say intending onely in all this speach to shew the Iewes that this Iesus whom they had slame was not now dead but risen againe plainely graunteth all this matter of Dauid as well as of Christ. Heere are two monstrous falseshoods on which all the rest of your running reasons are setled It had been to small purpose for Peter to prooue to the Iewes that Christ by them slaine was raised from the graue and restored to life if there he had rested or intended that onely as you stifly auouch what could he by this haue inferred more touching Christ then any man might likewise of Lazarus whom Christ raised from the graue This therefore was not Peters scope he had an higher and farder reach in that long Sermon of his which he throughly expresseth afterward and that was Therefore let all the house of Israel know for a suertie that God hath made him both LORD AND CHRIST this Iesus I say whom ye haue crucified To conclude this Peter doth not reason so weakely as you imagine Christs soule is ioined againe to his body though they crucified him ergo Christ is the true Messias and Sauiour of the world This were like one of your reasons which haue nor head nor taile But Peter endued with the holy Ghost reasoned verie truely and sufficiently and in effect thus The prophesie of Dauid which neuer was nor could be fulfilled in any no not in Dauid himselfe but onely in the Messias that his soule should not be left in hades nor his flesh see corruption is fulfilled in Christ whom you crucified he is risen Lord of all his enemies in his owne person the sorrowes of death being losed before him he is ascended vp
other Looke to the Story of Daniell and see whether he doth not say of him selfe that King Nabnchad-nezzar fell vpon his face 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and bowed himselfe to Daniell and willed them to offer Sacrifice and sweete odours vnto him This the King profered by Daniels owne confession and though we doe not doubt but Denâ—…el refused it and otherwise aduised the king yet there is no such thing recorded in the Text. Hence if you will conclude Daniel to be a false Prophet you shall shew your selfe to be a rash false and wicked teacher but if you will excuse him because he was one that feared God and knew his duty though there be no mention made of his deniall what spleene mooueth you to condemne Thaddeus being not him selfe the writer of the Storie and one that was not onely trained vp in Moses Law but a Disciple of Christs and sent by him to preach and which more is endued with the power of the holy Ghost to heale the sicke to plant the Gospell and conuert nations vnto the faith Fourthly I doe not see how it can possibly be true which this Thaddeus saith that Christ ascended vp to his Father with a great multitude seeing the Scripture sheweth how after fortie dayes he ascended in all their sights alone vp to heauen Might Christ doe nothing but he must first acquaint you with it that you take so straight a view who went vp to heauen with him The Apostle noteth that God said of his Sonne when he brought him into the world Let all the Angels of God worship him Can you tell when this was done Christ spoiled powers saith Paul and principalities and made an open shew of them It would trouble you to tell how where and when So Christ ascending on high led captiuitie captiue Who knoweth how farre or how many that he ascended to his Father with a multitude may be referred either to Angels or men If all the Angels adored him when he came into the world what did they when he ascended to heauen Nazianzene saith If Christ ascend to heauen ascend thou with him and ioyne thy selfe to the Angels that accompanie him or receiue him So Cyprian Non indiget vectoribus Angelis sed precedentes subsequentes applaudebant victori Christ ascending needed not Angels to beare him but they going before and following applauded him as a conquerer And Austen Sublatus est Christus in manibus Angâ—…lorum quando assumptus est in caelum non quia si non portarent Angeli ruiturus erat sâ—…d quia obsequebantur Regi Christ was caried vp by the handes of the Angels when he ascended to heauen not that he should haue fallen if he had not beene stayed by Angels but that they might serue their King And touching men why might not Thaddeus speake this of those that were raised out of their graues when Christ rose from the dead since they were partakers of Christs resurrection why should they be reiected from his ascension They rose from the dead not to die againe much lesse to bee left wandring on the earth Ascend before Christ they could not he was in all things as the head to haue the preeminence Then must they ascend with him or after him neither of which is expresly mentioned in the Scriptures It appeareth by Tertullian the Church in his time was opposite to his conceit and made him this answere Our abode after death which there is called sleeping is in Paradise quò iam tunc Patriarchâ—… Prophetae appendices dominicae resurrectionis ab inferis migrauerunt whither the Patriarkes and Prophets that were dependents on the Lords resurrection pâ—…ssed euen then with him FROM THE PLACES BELOW Cyprian saith of Christ spolians Inferos captiuos praemittens ad superos spoiling the places below and sending the captiues before towards heauen Austen saith Reddunt Infernavictorem superna suscipiunt triumphantem Hell restoreth him a conquerer and heauen receiueth him a Triumpher Where then the Apostle saith that Christ triumphed ouer powers and principalities in his owne person and likewise that he ascended on high leading captiuitie captiue which prooueth his ascent to heauen to be the fulnesse and perfection of his triumph since triumphes amongst mortall men are not secret nor solitarie shall we thinke that Christs triumphant ascension to heauen was the close conueying of him alone into heauen neither Angels nor man attending nor magnifying him or rather as Peter saith he went to heaâ—…n hauing Angels powers and mights subiected to him that is all sorts and orders were they neuer so excellent high or mightie seruing submitting confessing and applauding his humane nature as the subduer of all his enemies and Sauiour of all his Elect Where you would faine perswade the world that the Apostles Creed was not in the primitiue Churches which we haue now yea that at â—…irst it had no exact for me at all This is the way to discredite all thinges besides your owne deuices You may say as much against some parts of the Scriptures as you do against some parts of the Creed For the Scriptures themselues were not fully receiued in all places no not in Eusebius time He saith the Epistle of Iames of Iude the second of Peter the second and third of Iohn are contradicted as not written by those Apostles The Epistle to the Hebrewes was for a while contradicted by the Church of Rome not to be Pauls Eusebius report is the truer because the Churches of Syria did not receiue the second Epistle of Peter nor the second and third of Iohn nor the Epistle of Iude nor the Apocalypse as appeareth to this day by the translation of the new Testament into their tongue which wanteth all these bookes as no approoued parts of Scripture The like might be sayd for the Churches of Arabia Will you hence conclude that these parts of Scripture were not Apostolike or that we neede not receaue them now because they were formerly doubted of The Creede we doe not vrge as vndoubtedly written by all the Apostles for then it must needes be Canonicall Scripture but we vrge it as the best and perfectest forme of faith which was deliuered to the Christians at the first planting of the Gospell by the direction and agreement of the Apostles and kept and professed in some of the most famous places which when the Church of Christ had well considered and examined she receiued and preferred before all others Now that this forme of faith which we haue was both in auncient times and diuers places preserued and professed as comming from the first erectors of the Churches you haue seene the testimonies of Cyrill for Ierusalem of Chrysostome for Antioche of Austen for Africa of Ruffine for Aquileia of Venantius for Poyctiers and this very Article he descended to hell is by them witnessed to haue beene then in their Creedes of whom
knew him to be the same man that before was lame from his mothers wombe they were amazed and sore astonished at it Ieremie lamenting the miserie of the Iewes sayth I am sore vexed for the hurt of the daughter of my people I am heauie and astonishment hath taken me Euen as the Apostle also witnesseth of himselfe I speake the trueth in Christ and lie not I haue great heauinesse and continuall sorow in mine heart for my brethren that are my kinsmen according to the flesh If visions and Angels from God if the works and iudgements of God executed on others haue driuen the best men to frights and agonies what maruell then if the humane nature of Christ presenting himselfe in the garden vnto the Maiestie of his Father to be the Ransommer of mankinde and with his owne smart to satisfie the iustice of God for the sinne of the world and no way ignorant how weighty that burden and how mighty the hand of God was to whose will he must and did wholly submit himselfe what maruell I say if the weaknesse of our flesh in Christ beganne to be afrayed and astonished at the iudiciall presence and power of God at the perill of man if he were deserted and price to be payd for him before he could be redeemed not that damnation or destruction were prepared or purposed for him that should saue vs but for that the hand of God was infinitely able without hell and the paines thereof to presse and ouerpresse the manhood of Christ by whatsoeuer meanes he would This you will say is the paines of hell and the very same yea all that which the damned do suffer In deed Sir Discourser doth your skill serue you to make a religious submission to the Maiesty of God and an holy confession of his most mighty power euen with feare and trembling to be all that the damned now suffer or the selfe same paine which is sharpest in hell Doe not the godly at all times when they enter into the iust consideration of themselues presently see their owne infirmity and indignitie and thereby fall with feare and trembling to confesse all sanctitie glorie might and maiesty to be Gods and themselues to be not only earth and ashes but euen sinfull and hatefull vnto God if he be not gracious and mercifull vnto them And will you call these faithfull meditations of Gods children giuing vnto God his due the paines of hell and state of the damned because the sense of their weaknesse and vnwoorthinesse breedeth in them feare and trembling Then make heauen as touching the essence thereof all one with hell and saluation in substance to be the same that damnation is because the best learned Fathers confesse that the Angels in heauen doe and shall tremble at the voice and iudgements of God Adâ—…uius vocem Archangeli Angeli tremunt At whose voice the Angels and Archangels doe tremble sayth Hilarie speaking of the Godhead in Christ. Which words Leo the Great doth allow and alleage in his Epistle to Leo the Emperour and they grew to be of that credit that the effect of them was inserted in the Church seruice by Gelasius as Alcuinus doth witnesse Maiestatem tuam tremunt potestates The powers of heauen do tremble at thy Maiesty Christ comming from the heauens to iudgement euery creature shall tremble saith Basil the Angels themselues shall not be without feare for they also shall be present though they shall giue no account to God At that day sayth Chrysostome all things shall be full of astonishment horror and feare A great feare shall then possesse euen the Angels and not the Angels only but the Archangels and Thrones and powers of heauen because their fellow seruants must vndergoe iudgement for their liues led in this world Will you hence conclude that the Angels and Archangels are or shal be then in the paines of hell because they do and shall tremble at the sound of Gods voice and sight of Gods wrath to be executed on the world No more may you inferre that Christ did or should suffer the paines of hell and of the damned for that his manhood began to feare and tremble either at the maiestie of God sitting in iudgement or at the power of his iustice able to punish by what meanes and in what measure pleased him or at the weight of our sinnes for which he did vndertake or at the sharpnesse of vengeance layd vp in store aswell for the Iewes as all other vnbeleeuers that should neglect the saluation then to be purchased by his death and passion since the person of Christ being God and man was farre more assured and secured from hell and damnation than either the Saints or Angels of God are or can be At least then you thinke Christ feared and felt the wrath of God due to our sinnes though outwardly executed on his bodie From Christes Agonie which might haue diuers causes and whereof the true cause is not reuealed vnto vs by the Scriptures as I haue alwayes sayd so I now repeat it againe you can conclude nothing for your paines of hell to be suffered in the soule of Christ through the immediate hand of God They are your blind and bold deuises I must not say lewd and wicked because you are so tender you may not be touched to bring the true paines of hell yea the sharpest and extreamest of them into this life and to make the substance of hell nothing but a certaine paine inflicted onely on the soule by the immediate hand of God which you thinke Christ suffered in the garden where you say he felt as extreame sharpnes of paine as may by any possibilitie be endured yea though in hell it selfe and yet this incomprehensible vnspeakeable infinite and intolerable fierie wrath and paines of hell did neither part his soule from his mortall body nor so much as breake his patience So terrible you make the torments of hell in words and so easie in deeds that the wicked here suffer and endure them without ending their liues breaking their sleepes or refusing their foode But the true paines of hell are of an other manner of force thâ—…n you dreame of They leaue no place for meate nor sleepe the body must be immortall and not able to die that shall endure them they passe all patience of mâ—…n and Angels So that howsoeuer you aggrauate your fansie with fierie words you eleuate in truth the dreadfull iudgements of God against sin when you make the shaâ—…pest and extreamest of them to be tolerated of our Sauiour in this life with patience and siâ—…ence as appeared in his sufferings and the reprobate in the midst of your hell paines to liue eate and sleepe which in the trâ—…e paines of hell were not possible Austen saith rightly So is the soule conioyned with this body that to thâ—… paines which are exceeding great it yeeldeth and departeth because the very frame of the
sayth d 1. Tim. 5. I charge thee in the presence of God and of the Lord Iesus Christ and of the elect Angels that thou obserue these things without preiudice or partiaâ—…tie And againe we are made a e â—… Cor. 4. spectacle to the world to angels and to men And likewise s The woman ought to haue power on her head because of the Angels that is she ought to couer her head in signe of subiection to the power of the man because the Angels beholde this as all other actions of men either in the Church or in the world From this power to heare and see what is sayd and done on the face of the earth euen in the secret and darke places thereof the diuell is not excluded in that he is an Angel though fallen from heauen and cast vnto the earth yet an g Reuel 12. accuser and so a beholder of good whom he impugneth and of badde ouer whom he ruleth And what maruell that Angels who by their creation excell vs in power and might haue this incident to their condition when as men God opening their eyes can see things done in heauen and earth which naturally they can by no meanes see When Dothan was besieged by the Aramites to apprehend Elizeus and his seruant was afrayd at the sight of them the Prophet encouraging his seruant sayd h 2. Kings 5. Feare not for they that be with vs are moe then they that be with them and prayed God to open his seruants eyes which the Lord did and h 2. Kings 5. he looked and beholde the mountaine was full of â—…ierie charets and horses round about Elizeus i Mark 1. Assoone as Iohn was come out of the water where he baptized Iesus in Iordan Iohn saw the heauens cleaue asunder and the Holy Ghost descending on Christ like a Doue Steuen likewise not only had his face changed in the Councell k Acts 7. as the face of an Angell but looking stedfastly into heauen saw the glory of God and Iesus standing at the right hand of God Which though the incredulous Iewes did no wayes beleeue but stopped their eares when they heard him so say and ranne vpon him all at once and cast him out of the citie and stoned him as a blasphemous liar yet can he be no Christian Christ might see what he would that doubteth whether Steuen saw this with his bodily eyes or no the Scripture being so resolute for it how impossible soeuer it be to our eyes This power to beholde things farre distant notwithstanding all impediments interiected not onely Christ had when he would as appeareth by his words to Nathaniel l Ioh. 1. v. 48. Before Philip called thee being vnder the figge tree I saw thee for which Nathaniel acknowledged him to be the Sonne of God but he promised his that they should see greater things m Vers. 50. Because I sayd to thee I saw thee vnder the figge tree beleeuest thou Thou shalt see greater things then these n Vers. 51. Verily verily I say vnto you henceforth you shall see the heauens open and the Angels of God ascending and descending vpon the Sonne of man Since then Christ could and o Luke 10. vers 18. did see Satan like lightning fall downe from heauen I make no doubt but he could open his owne eyes to see the remote parts of the earth when it pleased him though vsually he did it not by reason he needed it not for he knew all things and euen what was in man which the Angels doe not and therefore needed not any such vse of his eyes but when he saw his time which in this case he might like lest the dâ—…uell should despise him as hauing greater power and cleerer sight then Christ did or could shew himselfe to haue For which cause also Christ would stand on the pinnacle of the Temple without the diuels helpe to let him know that he wanted not power to doe greater things then the diuell vrged him vnto but onely that hee would take his owne time and do nothing at the diuels instigation or motion nor repugnant to the will and pleasure of God A third way the diuell had if Christ would permit it to set these things before our Sauiours eyes Satan is able not onely to assume what shapes he will and to transforme himselfe into an Angell of light but also to make specters and shewes of any thing in the aire and to deceiue the eyes of men when he is suffered by God so to do which not onely experience of all ages but the Scriptures themselues confirme wherein all p 2. Thess. 2. false woonders and signes are ascribed to the operation of Satan By this meanes Simon the Sorcerer so bewitched the whole citie of Samaria that q Acts 8. they all from the least to the greatest gaue heed vnto him and sayd This man is the great power of God The Sorcerers of Pharaoh r Exod 7. turned their rods into serpents and changed the riuers into r Exod 7. bloud and brought s Exod. 8. frogs vpon the land of Egypt as Moses and Aaron did and other miracles could the diuell haue done as we see by killing of Iobs t Iob. 1. sheepe and seruants with fire from heauen and the u Iob. 2. smiting of Iobs bodie with sore boiles had not the hand of the Almightie stopped him and thereby made the Sorcerers confesse that x Exod. 8. v 19 there was the finger of God It was therefore no hard thing for Satan to frame the appearances of kingdomes and cities and shew the similitudes of them from euery part of the earth since they are but the figures and semblances of things that we see with our eyes which Angels good and badde haue in their power when they are sent of God to do his will Howbeit Satan could not delude the eyes of Christ without his knowledge and leaue though Satan did not so thinke And therefore all these wayes being possible yet I thinke the second most agreeable to the words and see no cause why we should measure Christs sight when pleased him by mans reason when as he did so many things heere on earth aboue all humane power and reason For he often y Marke 4. walked on the sea and z Iohn 20. came and stood in the midst of his disciples when the doores were shut and made the ship that receiued him in the sea of Tiberias a Iohn 6. to be by and by at the land whither they went besides many thousand miracles which he wrought with his word and hand whiles he conuersed amongst men Of which if no Christian may make any question why flie you to imaginations or visions so long as Christ had power enough with his eyes to behold whatsoeuer Satan could shew him It was Satans act you will say to shew them and not Christes Satan as an angell might see
you must bring stronger stuffe then such wordes as besides their diuers significations haue manie figuratiue translations and applications which will not serue you to conclude any thing for your hell paines suffered in this life These are the mightie proofes that were vnanswered which indeed I neglected as prouing nothing and so would yet haue donne had not you so mouthly called for an answeare as if the things had beene verie materiall which in truth are weake and faint u Defenc. pag. 119. li. 31. The confession and behauior of the reprobate do sundry times in this life testifie so much What is their confession in things which they know not euen as much as your assertion That they are somtimes inwardly and fearefully either tormented by satan or by their owne consciences I easily admit but what is the feare of hell either in the elect or in the reprobate to the true paines thereof which the wicked after this life shall feele that they feele an horror confounding them I neuer denied as also the godly may feele a terror pursuing them but if you determine this to be all the torment the wicked shal find in hell you were best take heed of deluding Gods iudgments against sinne and playing with fiery words in steed of euerlasting fire It is another manner of torment that there abideth the damned then this guilt of conscience remorse of sinne and a fearefull expectation of iudgement and fire in which the wicked sometimes lead their liues with horror and confusion and yet it is open blasphemy to ascribe any of these horrors or feares of the reprobate vnto Christ since they vtterly quench all persuasion of Gods fauour loue and patience towards them which if we affirme of him we wrap him within their reprobation x Defenc pag. 119. li. 32. The Diuels are many times out of the locall hell as when they are in this world But Diuels are neuer released of hell sorrowes Therefore the true sorrowes of hell are euen in this world and then possibly may be inflicted on wicked men as they are on Diuels which are sometimes out of the locall hell We speake of men here liuing on earth and you runne to Diuels ranging in the aire or compassing the earth for proofe of your hell-paines Which is as much as if you did plainely confesse you can find no Scripture to prooue that mortall men in this life may endure the torments of hell For the example of Diuels inferreth no more the paines of hell to be suffered of men in this life then the presence of elect Angels here on earth doth prooue that men in this life may enioy the perfection of Gods heauenly ioies and glory since the angels of God whithersoeuer they goe or wheresoeuer they are cannot be depriued or diminished of that inward power and light blessednesse and glory in which they are confirmed for euer With Angels elect or reprobate men after this life shall haue a resemblance and conuenience the faithfull saith Christ shall be a Matth. 22. as the Angels of God in heauen and the cursed are cast b Matth. 25. into euerlasting fire prepared for the diuell and his angels But in this life except we will waxe mad we must make no equiualence betwixt their estates and ours So that from the diuels condition to mans in this life there is no consequent more then the imitation and communion of his wickednesse in the reprobate whose children they are because they fulfill his desires and an expectation and feare of his punishment Otherwise as the earth is neither heauen nor hell no more is mans life on earth matchable with the ioyes of the good or paines of the bad Angels which haue the place of their abode determined and assigned them in heauen or in hell saue when they are sent or loosed by God to attend the execution of his will And yet if the place of hell had no greater nor other paines then the diuels alwayes carrie with them and in them why should they so much feare to be a Luc. 8. v. 31. sent into the deepe or b Iudae epla v. 6. be reserued vnto the iugdement of the great day and c Peter 2. ca. 2. kept vnto damnation feare they without cause or are they kept and reserued to no more nor worse paines then already they feele That is no reseruation where there is nothing but a continuation of the very same that was besore It is certaine therefore howsoeuer you presume the contrarie that the place of hell hath greater paines euen for the diuels then they feele any heere on earth or before the last day and howsoeuer their inward confusion and desperation doe horribly persue them in all places since their fall yet a more fearefull torment abideth them in hell and especially when the last iudgement commeth which is the set time that shall torment them by addicting and fastning them to eternall and intolerable fire Yet the sorrowes of hell are in the world By such logicke you may prooue the paines of hell to be in heauen and the ioyes of heauen to be in hell and so make a full confusion of all things which well becommeth your newe found faith For the Scriptures beare witnesse that Satan not only c Luc. 10. fell from heauen but made his d Reuel 12. battell or rebellion in heauen and after his fall e Iob 1. stoode among the children of God and euen with f 1. King 22. the host of heauen g Reuel 12. There was a battaile in heauen saith Iohn Michael and his Angels fought against the Dragon and the Dragon fought and his Angels But they preuailed not neither was their place found any more in heauen And the great Dragon called the diuell was cast into the earth Therefore reioyce ye heauens and ye that dwell in them Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea for the diuell is come downe vnto you with great wrath knowing that his time is short h 1. King 22. I saw the Lord sit on his throne saith Michaiah the Prophet and all the host of heauen stoode about him on his right hand and on his left hand Then there came foorth a lying spirit and stoode before the Lord of whom the booke of Iob testifieth that i Iob 1. v. 6. when the children of God came and stoode before the Lord Satan came also among them Certaine it is that Satan and his angels sinned euen in heauen and were cast out of heauen after their defection from God carrying alwayes with them and within them the losse of their originall brightnesse and the chaines of inward and fearefull darknesse whereby they find themselues reiected from Gods sauour despoyled of their former light and glory and reserued for the iudgement of the great day at which they tremble as well as at the place of their perpetuall imprisonment where their torments are and shal be increased though
they be neuer freed from that horrible confusion in which they lie And therefore they scare the place prouided for them and besought Christ neither k Luc. 8. to send them into the deepe and bottomlesse pit nor to l Matth. 8. torment them besore their time Neither was there onely transgression reprobation and confusion in the place of heauen where the Angels sinned and whence they were cast but of the blessed Angels S. Iohn saith that one of them m Reuel 20. came downe from heauen hauing the key of the bottomlesse pit and a great chaine in his hand who tooke the Dragon which is the diuell and bound him and cast him into the bottomlesse pit and shut him vp and sealed vpon him And were it doubtfull of Angels how they could retaine the measure of their brightnesse and blessednesse in the place of hell yet heare we Dauid confesse of God himselfe and of his spirit If I ascend to heauen thou art there if I get downe to hell thou art there So that the very fountaine of all holinesse and happinesse is in heauen earth and hell and yet the states of these three places are not confounded because the perfection of all goodnesse is present in euery of them The goodnesse and glory of God is not so fastned vnto places that either Paradise or heauen did priuilege men or Angels from sinne as heauen did not the diuels nor hell it selfe can hinder the happinesse of the blessed Angels when they are sent with power from God to execute his pleasure And yet this doth not confound the distinction of places or states in heauen or hell but that heauen is now the place where the brightnesse of Gods glory is reuealed to his Saints besides their internall and continuall vision of God which maketh them most happie and neuer leaueth them whethersoeuer they goe And therefore the Angels that sinned were cast thence that they should not defile the place of Gods presence with their wickednesse and hell is likewise the prepared mansion for the diuels where vengeance from God is powred on them and greater shall be when after iudgement they shall be closed in perpetuall prison though till that day some of them be suffered to beare rule in the aire and to worke in the children of disobedience for the triall of the saints and farder setting forth os Gods most glorious wisedome power and rightcousnesse n Defenc. pag. 119. li. â—…7 Lastly the true ioyes of heauen may be out of the locall heauen as when the glorious Angels haue bene and tarried some while here on earth with men Yet did they neuer for a moment want the toyes and glory of heauen From Angels endued with inward and heauenly light power holinesse and happinesse and by grace euerlastingly confirmed therein no argument can be drawen to our weake sinfull and variable condition neither doe we dispute of Gods power what he can doe but of his will and ordinance whereby he hath appointed heauen to be his seat that is the place where his glory is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and eternall and perfect blessednesse bestowed on all the inhabitants thereof be they men or Angels And though the Angels whethersoeuer they goe or whatsoeuer they doe retaine the cleere sight of God and the perfection of their 〈◊〉 all happinesse yet that is no proofe that we liuing here in mortall and miserable flesh can haue that on earth which they haue For example take some parts or consequents of that heauenly ioy and blisse which the Angels being heere on earth keep immutable and you shall soone see how grossely you erre in communicating their glory to men yet dwelling in houses of clay The Angels of God 〈◊〉 here on earth can neither erre sinne nor die they can feele no necessity infirmity nor miserie they need not eat sleepe nor rest they are indued with light that cannot be obscured with holinesse that cannot be defiled with ioy that cannot be diminished with power that cannot be resisted by men or Diuels Can these things be attributed to mortall men here on earth without open and palpable heresie Wherefore it is an erroneous and presumptuous inference that o Defenc pa. 120. 〈◊〉 2. If Angels may enioy heauen really being in the world that men heere liuing may doe the like p Defenc. pag. 120. 3. It is possible for Gods goodnesse to communicate some reall foretasie thereof vnto some blessed men also A taste of glory which neither continueth nor satisfieth can not be called heauen which is the perfect and perpetuall fulnesse of all kinde of blisse and want of all kinde of miserie S. Peter teacheth vs that God q 1. Pet. 1. begetieth vs into a liuely hope to an inheritance incorruptible vndefiled and vnchangeable reserued in the heauens for vs who are by the power of God kept by faith vnto saluation readie to le shewed in the last time If the taste of glory which you talke of be not immortall immutable vndefiled with any defect or miserie it may not be called heauen nor be sayd to be the inheritance reserued for vs in heauen And therefore though some blessed men haue had a sight of some glory which you call a taste thereof as Moses Esay Steuen and others yet that doth not proue them to haue beene really in the ioyes of heauen How osten is it written of the Israelites that they saw the glory of the Lord and yet they were ouerthrowen in the wildernesse r Exodus 24. ver 16. 〈◊〉 17. The glory of the Lord saith Moses abode vpon mount Sinai and the sight of the glory of the Lord was like a consuming fire on the top of the mountaine in the eies of the children of Israel So when Aaron offered his first offering for his Priesthood and blessed the people t Leu t. 9. v. 23 The glorie of the Lord appeared to all the people of whom God saith u Numb 14. vers 22. All these men which haue seene my glory my miracles which I did in Egypt and in the wildernesse and haue tempted me these ten times certainly they shall not see the land whereof I sware to their Fathers When Salomon had builded and consecrated the temple with praier and sacrifice x 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The glory of the Lord 〈◊〉 house so that the Priests could not enter into the house of the Lord because the glory 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lord had filled the Lords house And when all the children of Israel saw the fire and the glory of the Lord come downe vpon the house they bowed themselues with their faces to the earth vpon the pauement and worshipped and praised the Lord. I trust the King the Priests and the People were not all in the ioies of heauen and yet they all with their eies saw the glory of God there presented before them and such as were religious and obedient saw it to their exceeding ioy y Defenc. pag. 120. li. 5. That God doth
man compassed with sinne is able to see He saw posteriora Dei the backe parts of God for so God sayd vnto him y Exo. 33. v. 22 I will couer thee with mine hand whiles I passe by z 23. After I will take away mine hand and thou shalt see mine hinder parts but my face shalt thou not see Whereupon S. Austen sayth very aduisedly a August de Symbolo aâ—… Catethâ—…menos li 〈◊〉 ca. 3. Ipsa sunt illa posteriora Dei Christus Dei Those hinder parts of God were the Christ of God Which exposition Christ confirmeth when he sayth b Iohn 8. Your Father Abraham reioyced to see my day and he saw it and was glad Other shewes of Gods glorie some others had as Elias in the Caue the People in the Wildernesse Salomon in his Temple and Iohn Baptist in Iordan when he saw the Holy Ghost descend like a Doue and abide on Christ but none of those was the sight of Gods face which no mortall man can see and liue And that is the true and essentiall ioy of heauâ—…n to which all other degrees of perfection and happinesse are consequent c August dâ—… ciuitate Dei li. 16. â—…a 9. Videns Deum quod erit in sine praemium omnium sanctorum The sight of God sayth Austen shall in the end be the reward of all his saints Which doctrine he learned from S. Paul and S. Iohn the Apostles of Christ and they from their Master d 1. Cor. 13. Then we shall see him face to face and then shall I know sayth S. Paul euen as I am knowen When Christ shall appeare sayth S. Iohn e 1. Iohn 3. we shall be like to him for we shall see him as he is And so our Sauiour f Iohn 14. I will loue him that loueth me and shew mine owne selfe vnto him g Defenâ—… 〈◊〉 120. li. 15. Secondly it is true the Apostle sayth that here we walke by faith and liue by hope yet some rare exceptions do not ouerthrow this generall course The Scriptures are true with you saue where you list to make exceptions of your doctrine as not conteined in them nor agreeing with them No man in this life Christ Iesus only excepted had euer any such vision of God or possession and fruition of his heauenly kingdome that he did not walke by faith and liue by hope Paul was h 2. Cor. 12. taken vp into the third heauen and heard words not lawfull or not possible for man to vtter Did he then cease to walke by faith who after and alwayes prosessed of himselfe i 1 Cor. 13. Now I know in part but then I shall know as I am knowen And including himselfe with the rest k 2. Coâ—… 5. We walke by faith not by sight And â—…xactly speaking of himselfe l Galat. â—… That I now liue in the flâ—…sh I liue by the fâ—…ith of the Sonne of God m Phil. 3. that I may know him and the vertue of his resurrection and fellowship of his afflictions not as though I had alreadie attained to it but I endeuour my selfe to that which is before and follow hard towards the marke for the price of the high calling of God in Iesus Christ. If you dare defend that Paul in Paradise did see God face to face then may you say that at that time he walked not by faith but by sight but if that be a plaine errour then Paul as yet attained not the sight of Gods face nor the crowne of righteousnesse layed vp for him which should be giuen him by the iust Iudge at that day and consequently neither faith nor hope ceased in Paul notwithstanding his being in the third heauen The like I say of S. Iohn who n Reuâ—…l 4. saw a dore open in heauen and was willed to come vp thither and of all the Saints that either talked with God or had any manifest reuelation of his glory whiles here they liued The transfiguring of Christ in the mount was to him not only a ioyfull hope but a reall taste of his very heaueâ—…ly ioyes That transfiguration of Christ whether it were for himselfe or for the confirmation of his Disciples the Scriptures doe not precisely determine When a voice came from heauen to Christ in the audience of all the people Christ answered This voice came not because of me but for your sakes S. Peter who was one of those Disciples that saw him transfigured writeth thus of it o 2. Pet. 1. We followed not deceiuable fables but with our eyes we saw his Maiestie for he receiued of God the Father honour and glory when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory This is my beloued Sonne in whom I am well pleased This voice which was greater glory than his transfiguration came in respect of them to confirme them in their faith and obedience to the Sonne of God then incarnate and yet to assure their eyes by sight as well as their â—…ares by that voice he was transfigured before them but this transfiguration did not frâ—…e Christ from feare sorrow shame violence and death which followed and therefore this was not heauen to him nor all the glory prepared for him but an outward shew thereof to establish rather his Disciples then himselfe For his soule within him had here on earth greater glorie continually then a transitorie change of his body as namely the personall vnion with God which no creature man nor Angell in earth or heauen had or hath besides him the fulnesse of Gods spirit resting on him by which he knew all the counsell and will of God and all the secrets of mens hearts power ouer all flesh and command ouer all creatures which neither Saint nor Angell in heauen hath In the glory of his body Moses and Steuen did here on earth in part communicate with him P 2. Cor. 3. Moses face did shine when he knew it not The children of Israel could not behold the face of Moses for the glorie of his countenance which so glittered that the children of Israel were afrayd to come neere him he forced to put a vaile vpon his face when they spake with him and yet Moses q Exod. 34. ver 29. wist not that the skin of his face shone bright And likewise r Acts 6. all that sate in the councell where Steuen was conuented condemned looking stedfastly on him saw his face as the face of an Angell that is bright and glorious though Steuen knew it not no more than Moses for ought that the Scripture noteth of him saue that in the end Steuen s Acts 7. looking stedfastly into heauen saw the glory of God and Iesus standing at the right hand of God But the inward and continuall glorie of Christes soule heere on earth was proper to him no man nor angell matching him therein How come you then to attribute heauen vnto Christ for the
momentarie transfiguration of his bodie and to neglect and ouerskippe the constant and continuall ioy and glory of his soule which far better deserued the name of heauen than the change of his bodie t Defenc. pag. ◅21 li. 2. We grant the ioyes of heauen here are nothing equall to those hereafter only we say the very same in nature may be and are by the effectuall working of Gods gratious spirit in his elect reuealed in some measure and sometime euen in this world Neither is this as your charity speaketh any lewd or wicked error My charity serueth me and my duty bindeth me to tell you that if you of your owne head without the word of God will make an heauen or defend that to be heauen which is imperfect mutable and often defiled not with misery and death only but with weakenesse and wickednesse also you maintaine an euident and pestilent error The graces of God are heauenly aswell because they are giuen from heauen and direct to heauen as also they assure men of heauen but the measure of grace or ioy which we haue heere on earth is not the heauen which we are willed to beleeue and expect where our reward is and where an incorruptible vndefiled and immutable inheritance is reserued for vs and whence we looke for our Sauiour Your distinction that our ioy is the very same in nature though not in measure which is in heauen is not only false but a void and idle refuge For the ioy of heauen The name of Nature in the graces of God and ioyes of heauen is a vaine distinction is the plaine vision of Gods face which bringeth with it a present perfect perpetuall and plenary possession of all light power loue holinesse and happinesse deriueable f◅m God which in this weake fraile sinnefull and wretched life no man hath nor can haue And therefore though there be the knowledge loue and ioy of God both in this life and in the next yet the differences are so many and so great that no man of any reason or vnderstanding will make the one to be the other for some agreements in some points whereas in the whole there is not only a substantiall difference betwixt them which is the sight of Gods face but so many parts effects and consequēts in the one which are not in the other that it is more then folly to make the one by pretence of nature to be the same with the other All ioy in nature is the same if by nature we meane the generall definition therof for ioy is the impression or inward sense of good present or instant yea hope is in nature all one with ioy since in hope there is ioy as in feare there is paine and in hope we reioice yet no considerate diuine will confound hope and ioy together because they differ but in time much lesse make the ioies in this life which are defectiue mutable and permixed with our infirmity misery and iniquity the very same in nature with the ioies of heauen which are abundant constant and sincere in all parts and effects of brightnesse mightfulnesse righteousnesse and blessednesse which men can possibly comprehend when they come to the presence of God The sight of God by his creatures by his iudgments by his word and by himselfe is the same in the generall nature of knowledge yet are there as great differences betwixt them as betwixt darkenesse and light The Apostle saith u Rom. 1. The inuisible thinges of God that is his eternall power and godhead are seene by the creation of the world considered in his workes and that which may be knowen of God is manifest in them Shall we then say the heathen haue the very same knowledge of God by his workes which the Angels in heauen haue by the sight of himselfe the Diuels know him also by his workes by his word and his iudgements x Ionas 2. Thou beleeuest saith Iames That there is one God thou doest well The Diuels also beleeue◅t and tremble Yea they know Christ to be the sonne of God y Luc. 4. I know who thou art said the Diuell to Christ euen the holy one of God Shall we then thinke that the Diuels faith is the very same in nature with our Christian faith of many castawaies which fall away from the grace of God and receaue it in vaine the Apostle saith z Heb. 6. They were once lightened and tasted of the heauenly gift and were made partakers of the holy Ghost and tasted of the good word of God and of the powers of the world to come Shall we auouch these reprobates were in heauen in this life because they had once the very same graces in nature which the elect haue If our knowledge doe differ in this life and the next Our loue and ioy do follow our knowledge then doth our ioy likewise differ From our knowledge of God riseth our loue of God and our ioy in God For we can neither haue loue nor ioy of that which we know not but as our knowledge increaseth so doth our loue and ioy And therefore when we see God infallibly as he is then shall we loue him vnfainedly as we ought and reioice in him vnspeakeably euen as much as we are capable of not by the strength of our nature but by the working of his power Till then as our knowledge is darke and in part so our loue is weake and our ioy is faint but then shall these very thinges not only rise to an higher degree and be of another nature but be replenished with all parts of light power and blisse without which we may defend nothing to be heauen indeed howsoeuer wee may vse figuratiue speaches to comfort or encourage the godly As then worke and wages labour and rest sowing and reaping running and obtaining striuing and crowning abroade and at home doe differ euen in nature so faith and sight hope and haning promising and performing that is our state in earth and heauen doth likewise differ though it be one and the same thing which is now promised beleeued and hoped for and which hereafter shal be receaued attained and enioyed a Defenc. pag. 121. li. 7. Now then if more then hope only euen heauenly ioies may be on earth surely it followeth that likewise more then feare euen hellish paines themselues may be in men on earth also If the ioies of heauen be not only constant in nature but perfect in measure and consist in the sight of Gods face which no man shall see and liue then certainly the ioies of heauen are not in this life imparted to any mortall and sinnefull man And though that might be which yet God expressely denieth shal be yet the other is no con◅quent that the paines of the damned may be likewise in this weake and fainting flesh because ioy is an affection that preserueth this life and paine if it be violent and aboue our strength presently seuereth the soule
the Gentiles neuer vsed that word which the heathen at that time did not vnderstand but where occasion so required they retained the word hades and applied it to the place of torment and to the ruler thereof which things were not strange to the Gentiles Since then the Euangelist and Apostles neuer ment to confirme or continue the erroneous fansies of the Pagans and yet vsed their words it is euident they vnderstood so much by these wordes as was not repugnant to the Christian faith Now hades with the Pagans was a place vnder the earth where the wicked after this life were punished This was agreeable to the trueth and for that cause the Apostles retained that sense and force of the word That the soules of the iust were also kept vnder the earth in rest and ease this was the error of the heathen though both Iewes and Christians lighted afterwardes on that fansie This the Apostles doe not ratifie in vsing the word hades for that it was not consonant to the grounds of true religion from which they neuer ment to depart by vsing any wordes accustomed among the heathen And as the Gentiles before they beleeued vsed hades for the chiefe ruler of those Infernall places so doth Saint Iohn not refuse to attribute that name to the diuell in his Reuelation And so without your conceits or discourses we haue shortly and plainely the cause and course why and how the Canonicall writers concurred with the Grecians in vsing the word hades and yet corrected their error Howbeit I thinke the Apostles had chiefe respect to the Septuagint who translating the Hebrew into Greeke then rife in many learned mens handes and expressing there the sense of Sheôl vsed Hades for the death of the bodie in the graue and for the death of the soule in hell after whose example the sacred writers of the new Testament speaking of the wicked or ioyning death with hades note what hades is besides the death of the bodie which they intend by Thanatos And therefore though Hades in the old Testament import the places of death for bodie and soule I meane the graue and hell yet throughout the new Testament that word being alwayes opposed to heauen applied to the wicked or connexed with other wordes that signifie the death of the bodie it must of force be taken for the power and place that killeth the soules of all men approching it except onely Christs to whom all powers and principalities in heauen and earth and hell were and are submitted and subiected Hitherto wee haue tried the nature and vse of Hades and haue found it to bee not properly hell as you auouch no not when it is applied to soules of men deceased And therefore also that it cannot be so vnderstood in Acts 2.27 where it is applied to Christs soule after he was dead which yet is the onely place you haue to pretend Hitherto you haue prated what pleased you and proued nothing and notwithstanding your vaine euasions meere priuations inuincible conditions and plaine visible contradictions Hades is found by the full consent of Christian and heathen writers to bee a place vnder the earth and in darkenesse where the soules of the dead adiudged to that place were and are detained vnder the Dominion of the Diuell though the Pagans in their wandering from their trueth imagined him to be a God and dreampt of earthly pleasures there to comfort their deiected spirits against the terror of death And since Christs soule was not left in hades after death as appeareth Acts 2.31 what haue you or any man liuing to say why Christs descent to Hades that is as the Gospell expoundeth this word to the place of torment of which it was impossible for him to be held or to bee therewith touched should not bee iustly grounded on this place wee may simply take hades for the inuisible state or place of the deceased If for the place then for heauen where you say Christes soule was after death And would Christ so greatly reioice that his soule should not be left in heauen Otherwise we may take it simply for deaths force and power supplying also the same wordes eis ton topon or tên chôran hadou in that place where the power and strength of death preuaileth and holdeth the deceased soules from their bodies You haue so many senses that you haue neuer a good First you tooke hades for a state or place and then you supplied it as indeed you must with topon or choran a place or region And so your sense went round like a wheele Thou wilt not leaue my soule in the place of place or state which is not seene that is not in heauen Now you renew your strength to take better hold and saie Thou wilt not leaue my soule to the place of deaths power Where we must note that heauen for there was Christes soule as you grant is by you appointed to be the place of deaths power and so you haue brought vs the strength and power of death and darknesse preuailing in heauen and euen on Christes soule This is the world of the dead implying nothing else but an estate opposite to our visible state in this world Are the places or states of heauen and hell nothing but an opposition to our visible estate in this world There are bodies both in heauen and in hell by the consent of the best Diuines new and old How then is their state opposite to our visible state Moses and Elias were seene talking with Christ in the mount What place will you appoint for them since they were visible And if the world of the dead be nothing else but an estate opposite to our visible estate then Christ after his resurrection relapsed often to hades to the world of the dead for he was inuisible to all men as long as he staied on earth but when and where he was pleased to shew himselfe And if that be true which you your selfe doe say that l in very deed hades hath properly but a priuatiue sense and not any thing positiue in it then your additions of place and region be repugnant to the nature of hades except you can bring vs a place and region of meere priuations in which is nothing positiue and consequently your varieties and expositions of hades be meere illusions and haue nothing in them but lies and mockeries For hades is a place below in the earth and darke by condition as wherein nothing is seene as both Christians and Pagans affirme Hades therefore is no mecre priuation If the soule of Christ then after death were in hades it was not at the same time in heauen for heauen is opposite throughout the Scriptures to hades and your owne common and inuisible place of both is a priuate and palpable errour of your owne Last of all we may take Hades heere by a prosopopaea conceauing it to be as it were some person of vnresistable power taking away
Agonie after an Angell appeared from heauen and comforted or strengthened him with a message from God it seemeth rather an effect of Christes intentiue prayer which the Scripture there mentioneth than a consequent to any other passion or paine Christes intentiue prayer after comfort receiued by an Angell from heauen might proceed from his ardent desire care and zeale of our redemption from the wrath of God and protection from the rage of Satan And therefore as the Prophet foreshewed he should not onely beare the sinnes of many but pray for the Trespassers Christ might spend all the spirits and powers of bodie and soule in most vehement and feruent prayer euen vnto a bloudie sweat to haue all his members pardoned their sinnes and reconciled to God by the sacrifice of his bodie which he would offer for them and also to haue Satan cast out from accusing them and in the end trodden vnder their feet If Christes bloudie sweat were supernaturall we must aske no cause thereof but leaue it to his sacred will who could aboue nature doe what he would That it was no proofe of hell paines appeareth plainly because Christ after in greater paines on the Crosse did not sweat bloud and of all those whom these men imagine suffered hell paines in the Scriptures no one can be produced that euer sweat bloud The word forsaking vsed by Christ in his Complaint on the Crosse doth not in all the Scriptures inferre the paines of the damned but in the wicked it noteth reiection desperation and feare of damnation and in the godly it argueth want of protection or decrease of consolation in their troubles In Christ it might shew the time the cause the maner or the griefe of his being so long forsaken and left to the rage and reproch of his persecutors without any sensible signe of Gods loue towards him care for him helpe in his troubles or exse in his paines but it doth not prooue that Christ thought himselfe forsaken of Gods fauour grace or spirit which feare or doubt could not be in him without a manifest touch of error and want of faith Christ neuer feared nor doubted that he should or could perish vnder the hand of God persuing our sinnes in the bodie of his flesh but for the ioy set before him endured the Crosse and despised the shame and as S. Peter sayth of him at the time of his suffering he alwayes beheld God at his right hand that he should not be shaken and therefore his heart reioyced and his tongue was glad and his flesh rested in hope because his soule should not be forsaken in hell nor his flesh see corruption Christ was made a curse for vs in that he suffered the temporall and corporall curses of the Law threatned vnto sinners as all sorts of afflictions belonging to this life and in the end a painfull and shamefull death by which he abolished the spirituall and eternall curse of God due to vs for sinne but he was neuer inwardly truely nor eternally accursed of God since by tasting of our externall curse for a time he made vs partakers of his spirituall and celestiall blessednesse for euer Christ who knew no sinne was made sinne for vs that is either the punishment of our sinnes or the sacrifice for our sinnes for we were healed by his stripes and he gaue himselfe for vs a sacrifice of a sweet smell to God Being then an holy and acceptable sacrifice to God for sinne he was neither defiled nor hatefull to God with our sinnes but suffered the iust for the vniust that is he tooke vpon him the punishment of our sinnes though he were most innocent and by the holinesse of his person submitting himselfe to the death of the crosse purged our vncleannesse by his innocencie couered our guiltinesse and by his fauour with God reconciled vs that were enemies Christ bare the full punishment of our sinnes that is not all which we should haue borne for then he must haue beene euer lastingly reiected confounded and condemned to hell fire which are most horrible blasphemies but he bare so much of the punishments of this life where he suffered as in his person by the iust iudgement of God was most sufficient for all our sinnes TOuching Christs descent to hell the words are plainly cited by Peter out of Dauid that Christes soule after death should not be left in Hades which Saint Luke in his Gospell vseth for the place where torments are prepared for the wicked after this life And in that sense is the word vsed thorowout the New Testament as likewise the Greeke Fathers tooke it for the place vnder the earth whither the soules of all men were condemned for sinne and where the Diuels detaine and torment the wicked That Christ likewise descended to the lower parts of the earth and to the bottomlesse deepe after death is vouched by Saint Paul whereupon the whole Church of Christ from the beginning hath confessed his descent to hel to be a point of Christian pietie Peters Sermon in the second of the Acts intended not simply to proue that Christ was risen from the dead as Lazarus and others were but affirmed farder of him That God raised him vp to set him on Dauids Throne that is to make him King of Glorie This he prooueth In that Christes flesh could not see corruption nor his soule be forsaken in hell which was verified in none no not in Dauid who were all dead and saw corruption but only in the Messias It was therefore impossible that either death or hell should detaine Christ but he was to rise Lord of death and hell and the Sauiour of all his from both as appeared by his ascending to heauen and sitting at the right hand of God Neither was this strange to the Iewes who were taught to expect that to be performed by the Messias which God promised by his Prophet O Death I will be thy death O Hell I will be thy destruction Sheol in the Olde Testament signifieth the Graue and Hell that is the places whither the dead bodies of all men went and whither the soules of the wicked dead in sinne descended after death And therefore where it is distinguished from the death of the bodie or referred to the soule after death as it is in Dauids words applied by Peter to Christ it apparently signifieth Hell The ends of Christes descent are likewise deriued from the Scriptures as the destroying of the Diuels kingdome and triumphing ouer powers and principalities and making an open shew of them spoiling them by deliuering all his Elect dead liuing and yet vnborne from the right power and feare of eternall death taking into his hands the Keyes of Death and Hell that he might be Lord of all in Heauen Earth and Hell The Creed is not a Collection of Greeke or Hebrew phrases vnknowen to the people but a short summe of the Christian faith prouided for the simpler sort of men to learne by heart And therefore as
vs. In this sense all that the Scripture intendeth by wrath in God is most proper and naturall to God namely his holinesse abhorring sinne his iustice proportioning punishment to it and his power performing whatsoeuer his will and councell decreeth for the repressing or reuenging of sinne For which respect Zanchius a very moderate and considerate writer of our time and one whom amongst others the Discourser iudgeth no way inferior to the best of the Auncients setteth downe this for one of his Resolutions which he calleth a Thesis Ira eo sensu quo scripturae dant illam deo veré proprié ei attribuitur Anger in that sense in which the Scriptures giue it to God is truely and properly ascribed vnto him And his resolutions ensuing vpon the former are not onely that God is angry he meaneth truely and properly as his first Thesis affirmeth with all sinners as well elect as reprobate but that maior grauior est ira dei aduersus homines etiam electos propter peccata quam existimari possit ab ipsis hominibus The anger of God against his elect for sinne is greater and greeuouser then they can conceiue A second signification of proper may be that this wrath which the Scriptures attribute to God is proper to him and common to no creature els Men and deuils haue wrath but that is tumultuous or vitious and hath no communion with Gods wrath which is righteous and holy The Saints and Angels in heauen no doubt detest all iniquitie but they are no fit discerners esteemers nor rewarders of sinne The secrets of the heart they know not whose vncleannesse is open onely to the eies of God The waight of sinne they cannot truely balance he onely that is offended and cannot be deceiued rightly knoweth how farre euery sinne should displease and what euery sinne deserueth As they cannot fully ponder offences no more can they iustly proportion punishment to the demerits of euery sinner and least of all ordaine and arme meanes temporally to afflict or eternally to reuenge the bodies and soules of transgressors he onely that is all-wise all-holy all-iust and allmightie can throughly discerne perfectly dislike euenly reward and powerfully represse sinne by repentance or vengeance as seemeth best to him and therefote he onely is the righteous Iudge of the world and capable of that wrath which is proper to God A third meaning of Gods proper wrath may be this that as euery thing most rightly deserueth his name when it hath in 〈◊〉 permixtion of the contrary to alter his nature so Gods proper wrath may be that which is wholy and onely wrath without any temper of mercie or loue to diminish the heate and hight of wrath That is most properly light that hath no darkenesse trueth that hath no falshood good that hath no euill in it And since Gods iustice against the wicked admitteth neither loue to their persons nor mercie to their miseries that is also Gods proper wrath which is fully and wholy wrath without any fauour or pitie towards them that are the vessels of wrath appointed to destruction Of their damnation S. Iohn writeth The smoke of their torment shall ascend for euer and they shal haue no rest day nor night Wherby it is euident their iudgement shall be mercilesse their worme neuer dying and the fire neuer quenching And how can it be otherwise since they are both haters and hated of God Iacob haue I loued saith God and Esau haue I hated Thou hatest saith Dauid to God all those that worke wickednesse Yea the wrath of God saith Paul is reuealed from heauen against all vngodlinesse and vnrighteousnesse of men For as they regarded not to know God so God deliuered them vp into a reprobate minde to doe vnseemely things Neither is there any greater wrath in this life then for men to be left to the lustes of their owne hearts that they may be full of all vnrighteousnesse wickednesse maliciousnesse haters of God inuenters of euill voyde of all loue fidelitie and mercie and here receiue in themselues a meete reward of their errour to prepare them for eternall vengeance with diuels in the world to come This wrath of God against the wicked hath in it neither loue nor mercie but is wholy wrath proportioned to their desires which are sinnefull and their deserts which are hatefull before God and so they feele the iust and full recompence of their affected ignorance and wilfull disobedience Of this wrath the elect doe not taste they are freed from it in Christ their Redeemer and Sauiour by whose spirit their mindes are lightned and renued and their hearts perswaded to the obedience of faith and by whose death they are wholy deliuered from the wrath to come Of the two former they often taste specially when they neglect continuall and serious repentance to which free remission of sinnes is offered in the blood of Christ Iesus or when through the rebellion of the flesh against the spirit they are caried backe to the desires of their former corruption In which cases the Lord with sundry and sore afflictions letteth them sharpely feele what it is to prouoke the holinesse or abuse the goodnesse of so gracious a Father and neuer leaueth scourging them till they see and acknowledge their vnrulinesse and lament and leaue their vncleannesse taking hope and hold through faith of his mercies promised them in Christ Iesus If it can not be truely sayd of the elect that in this third sense which you vrge they taste of Gods proper wrath because of the loue which God beareth and sheweth them in Christ his sonne how much lesse may it be auouched of Christ himselfe that he suffered all Gods proper wrath on whom nothing was layed for our sinnes but with so great loue fauour and honour considering the cause which he vndertooke that God in each and all Christs sufferings declared him to be the best pleasing sacrifice and most sufficient recompense for sinne that heauen could yeeld or God would haue For whether wee looke to the choise of the person to the measure of his chastisement or to the reward of his labour wee shall see the exceeding and admirable loue and fauour of God towards him albeit the iustice of God kindled against our sinnes did not quit him from all paine yea that very chastisement by which he yeelded and learned obedience did not onely witnesse but also increase Gods loue towards him And where you Sir Discourser cast your eyes onely vpon Gods seuere and implacable iustice against sinne when you speake of Christes sufferings to serue your owne turne and to tole in hell-paines with some pretence of piety all the godly may perceiue and must confesse that God in satisfaction for sinne had greater regard of his holinesse despised by mans disobedience and of his glorie defaced by Satans triumph for our fall than of the rigor of his iustice prouoked by contempt of his commandement For
madde mens fits than sober and Christian verities And in plaine reason how agreeth this word principall either with proper or with immediate both which are ioyned by you with it Where God is principall there vseth he other meanes and instruments besides himselfe and his owne hand Principall hath alwayes accessaries and instruments and where they intermeddle they vse not Gods immediate hand but such meanes as they are able and apt to guide So that when God is principall punisher he is neither proper nor immediate punisher but vseth the seruice and force of his creatures to perfourme his appointment and when he is either the proper or immediate executour of his owne will he neither needeth nor vseth his creatures And here the third time you play with the word proper but very improperly as you did twice before first with Gods proper wrath then with the soules proper facultie of suffering now with the proper punisher which can no way be matched with principall and applyed to God without a palpable absurditie For referre principall whether you will to the determination or to the execution of Gods wil and iudgement to say that God is the principall determiner of his owne will is a wicked speech For who is Gods counseller to aduise him or associate to assist him that God should be principall and others concurrent with him to promote his will with their consents or restraine it with their dislikes God is not only a Iudge of the world but the sole Iudge thereof to make him principall and not sole therein is to impart his right and glorie vnto others which he will not endure Wee shall see honour and admire and with heart and voice magnifie the righteousnesse of Gods Iudgement that shall be giuen by his Sonne â—…n which sense it is said The Saints shall iudge the worlde yea we shall iudge the Angels but that is by submitting our wils to his and by glorifying his iudgement as in heauen his Saints alwaies doe not by clayming voices with him There is then no Iudge of the soule but onely God and to say he is principall Iudge thereof is apparantly to dishonour him Will you referre principall to the execution of Gods iudgements then he must haue some others to conioyne with him in common and they must vse such meanes as lie in their power and so God is neither the proper nor immediate punisher of the soule where he is the principall And when it pleaseth him to take vpon him the chiefe execution of his owne iudgement what cause is there he should call assistants vnto him Doth he lacke wisedome or power that his creatures must aide and helpe him I wish you to weigh your words better before you wade in things aboue your height Your words are absurd your matter is more absurd and the proofes you bring for it are most absurd of all To bring Christs soule within the compasse of hell paines you flash out the fire of hell as a fable and turne out of seruice the rest of the torments there namely reiection from the kingdome of heauen the sting of Conscience confusion of Sinne horrour of darkenesse and diuels despaire of ease and such like as no paines or at least as no substantiall paines of hell you suppose a paine which you imagine commeth from the immediate power of God vpon the soules of the wicked as well in earth as in hell and so not onely you make God the tormentor of soules and diuels in hell with his owne immediate hande but you so aggrauate the paine thereof with fierie words that the reprobate may fully feele it in this world and yet it neither doth end their liues nor waste their bodies which a pange of the stone or a fit of an Ague will doe The best proofe you bring for all this is a bold face and bigge words wherewith you bid all the world NOTE it is so But Sir if charitie did not stay me I should NOTE you rather for an idle talker then for a booke-maker which thinke it lawfull for you to allegorize all that the Scripture mentioneth or threatneth of hell and in the end broach out of the heate of your owne head a Chymysticall hell as well in this world as in the next and so little regard either the truth of Gods speech or the faith of the whole Church or the consciences of all good men that without any further trouble or triall WE MVST NOTE you say so Such archers such arrowes such cheapmen such chaffe a man of your pitch will hardly be brought to any other passe The bottome of your building for it deserueth not the name of a foundation it is so weake and rotten is this which I wish the Reader to NOTE it is so notable stuffe That where there are but three sorts of the soules suffering paine as you conceiue the first by the immediate hand of God the second by sympathie with the bodie and the third by her vehement and strong affections The affections you say are neither immediatly for sinne nor punishments at all properly in themselues the soules second facultie of suffering by sympathie with the bodie you affirme is not proper but common to vs with beasts the first therefore in your conceit is the proper and principall humane suffering for sinne which Christ must needs feele being a man made of God to suffer for all our sinnes Of this wandring and halting diuision I haue spoken before It is euident the soule may suffer paine from and with the bodie and from and by her owne powers and faculties of vnderstanding will sense and affections and from the hand of God immediate or mediate that is vsing other meanes than are beforenamed to punish the soule That the paine of the bodie paineth the soule of man there can be no question naturall euidence and dailie experience sufficientlie confirme it and this is that which you call sympathie when both doe suffer paine together the one from and with the other Touching the eies and eares how often impressions they make of feare and sorrow for our selues and others when the bodie is not touched nor pained euerie woman and childe can giue testimonie Threats rebukes euill reports taken in at the eares dangers distresses and losses foreseene or seene in our selues and others which must needs trouble and grieue the soule are no newes in any condition or person The affections which are both vngodlie and vnrulie are so manie blasts and stormes tossing the soule to and fro with anger and feare with desire and dislike with pensiue care of earthlie things and foolish pitie with hope and despaire with vnlawfull loue and hatred with vaine ioy and vnprofitable sorrow and with a number like headie and hastie passions insomuch that they often driue the soule to rage and furie or end this life with griefe and disdaine As for the vnderstanding and will the soule conceiuing Gods iust and heauie displeasure against sinne and knowing
firy worme not dying nor destroying the bodie but breaking forth of the bodie with vnceasing anguish Howbeit because S. Austen leaueth it indifferent for euery man to refer the WORME properly to the bodie or figuratiuely to the minde as he liketh best so that by no meanes he thinke the bodies in hell shall not be touched with the paine of fire I left it likewise free for euery man to make his choise and saw no need of farther answer Touching brimstone you may iest at S. Iohn if you list who saith of the wicked they shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy Angels and before the Lambe and likewise of the diuell that he was cast into a lake of fire and brimstone or if you please you may oppose God himselfe and aske whether materiall brimstone were mixed with the fire which hee rained from heauen on Sodom and Gomorre and why hee powred them both on the heads of those wicked ones as if fire alone were not sufficient to destroy them who are set forth for an ensample by suffering the vengeance of eternall fire But howsoeuer you presume to alter or new frame the iudgements of God after your fansies when I reade that God hath rained brimstone and fire out of heauen on Sodom and the cities adioyning and will raine fire and brimstone vpon the wicked as Dauid testifieth I dare not allegorize either of them because I reuerence the word of God which is his will and by no meanes distrust his power For if God will haue brimstone mixed with hell fire to make it burne not onely the darker and sharper but also the lothsommer and so to grieue the sight smell and taste of the wicked which haue heere surfeited with so many vaine pleasures what haue you or any man liuing to say against it yea rather why teach you not men to tremble at the terror of Gods iudgements who can and will so fully punish all the powers and parts of bodie and soule with one and the same fire in hell Your obiection of true chaines and much wood I called sleeuelesse in deed I should haue called it witlesse for but you no man that would seeme wise euer did account it worth the obiecting or answering Who knoweth not that the names of artificiall things applied to Gods iudgement or gouernement must not import with him as they doe with vs things made or prouided with mens handes but the woonderfull works and powerfull acts of God tending to the same end for which these artificiall things do serue with vs As when we read in the Scriptures of Gods sword cup bow booke sootestoole furnace and such like Is any man so foolish as to aske after the Cutler Goldsmith Flâ—…tcher Stationer Carpenter Mason that made those things for God and not rather to looke to the vse of these things amongst men and thence to collect the marueilous and manifest effects of Gods power iustice counsell and prouidence determining and perfourming in this world and the next what pleaseth him against men and Angels The chaines wherewith the deuils are bound Peter calleth the chaines of darkenesse not of mettall which man can frame and they note the ineuitable subiection and immutable condition of deuils plunged in outwarde and inward darkenesse malediction and horror whereby they are now kept vnto damnation without any power to resist or decline the iudgement which shall be pronounced on them That God hath a Smith to make Iron chaines to bind the deuill or a fueller to cut and fetch wood for hell fire lest it should faile these were such meriments to be concluded out of Scripture that if you find no vanitie nor absurditie in them against the trueth and glorie of God you may take the Legend or the Alcoran into your Creede without any scruple of conscience but if these things be more then sottish then deserue your obiections a worse name then I gaue them The Scriptures you say shew no more any true fire in hell then true chaines and much wood To suppose those things to be needefull for hell which are prepared by the hands of men is a very wicked and wilfull impietie For so should hell fire quickly cease which Christ hath said shall be euerlasting And that the Scriptures prooue no more the trueth of fire there then they doe of wood is an open and arrogant vntruth For first all the Fathers of Christs Church and the soberest Diuines of our time are condemned by this insolent assertion as ignorant and absurd teachers who confesse the trueth of hell fire to be established by the Scriptures which of wood they do not Secondly the words of Christ and his Apostles are chalenged to be false For they in plaine speech affirme fire to be in hell which of wood they doe not Thirdly the reason whereupon the Defenders obiection is grounded ouerthroweth all religion in this life and all reward in the life to come For this is and must be the pillar whereto his obiection leaneth The Scripture nameth fire and so it nameth wood and therefore it sheweth the trueth of the one no more then it doth of the other but if the wood be figuratiue so must the fire be Applie this reason to the Church of Christ on earth or to the kingdome of heauen or to Christ himselfe and see whether it will not vtterly subuert them all and make all Gods promises and graces here and in heauen to be allegoricall and not literally true Of Christ God saith Behold I will lay in Sion a stone a tried stone a precious corner stone And of himselfe Christ saith I am the true Vine Were it not braue blasphemie to say the Scriptures shewe Christ to be no more a true God then a true Stone or a true Vine because they affirme of him all three To his Church God saith I will lay thy foundation with Saphires and will make thy windowes of Emeraudes and thy gates shining stones All thy children shall bee taught of God and much peace shall be to thy children in righteousnesse shalt thou be established Shall we say that wisedome peace and righteousnesse here promised to the Church are figuratiue because Emeraudes and Saphires mentioned in the very same place must be figuratiuely taken Christ saith to his disciples I appoint you a kingdome as my Father hath appointed to mee that you may eate and drinke at my table in my kingdome Are all the rewards of the faithfull in the kingdome of heauen allegoricall because this most apparantly is so Proude and false therefore is that surly resolution of yours Sir Discourser who auouch the Scriptures shewe no more true fire in hell then much wood because the Prophet in one place nameth them both and if your obiections be no better let the Christian reader iudge whether there be any cause you should so earnestly call for an answere But let vs view the place whence you
that whatsoeuer it were though you can neither prooue nor expresse what it was Gods very wrath and proper vengeance for sinne though outwardly executed on the body could not but sinke deeper into the Soule and wound the soule properly yea chiefly though the anguish thereof bruised the bodie ioyntly also It is well yet at last that you find your selfe ignorant of some things and that you will not take vpon you to expresse in what precise manner or iust measure the wrath of God was reuealed and executed on Christ. For whiles you broched those secrets more boldly then wisely or truely you ranne your selfe out of breath and brought neither substance nor shadow of holy Scripture to warrant your vanities but daunced vp and downe with certaine licentious and ambiguous phrases of GODS PROPER VVRATH MEERE IVSTICE VERY VENGEANCE and such like flowers neither confirmed by the Scriptures nor so much as expounded by your selfe but because you checke your owne presumption I will spare it and come to that which you professe your selfe so resolutely to know that Gods very wrath and proper vengeance for sinne though outwardly executed on the body of Christ could not but sinke deeper into the soule and wound the soule properly yea chiefly though the anguish thereof bruized his bodie also Wherein notwithstanding you keepe your accustomed phrases of Gods very wrath and proper vengeance which you neither doe nor dare describe by the parts thereof that we may discerne the trueth of your speech yet for their sakes that are simple I am content shortly to examine what wrath from God Christ suffered as farre as the Scriptures direct vs at whose hands he suffered it and what he did and must conceaue of those his sufferings There is no question but power to feele conceaue and discerne by sense reason or faith in man belongeth properly yea onely to the soule of man Life sense and motion appeare in the body and haue their actions perfourmed by the instruments of the body but euen in them the power and force that quickneth and mooueth the body and discerneth by the senses of the body commeth from the soule and so dependeth on the soule that the soule departing from the body leaueth it voyd of all motion sense and life Then in all Christs sufferings when any violence lighted on his body the paine pearced into his soule and his soule not onely fully felt the anguish thereof but rightly discerned the fountaine whence the cause why and the meanes by which it came Christ likewise knew himselfe to be endewed with such might and strength that of him selfe he could not onely resist the whole world if he would but euen commaund and represse men and diuels His ouerruling of seas windes and wicked spirits and giuing his Disciples power ouer them is so euident and often in the Scriptures that no Christian may be ignorant of it After his agony in the Garden with the word of his mouth he threw to the ground the whole band of men that came with Iudas to take him and when by this meanes he had shewed him selfe not destitute of his wonted force and vertue he voluntarily submitted him selfe not onely to be bound and brought whether they would but euen to be whipped mocked wounded hanged and euery way vsed at their pleasure Which he did not to satisfie their wicked rage but to obey the will of his heauenly Father who when he would punish the sinnes of men in the person of his owne Sonne Deliuered him into the hands of sinners from them to suffer whatsoeuer the hand and counsell of God had determined before to be done For those things which God before had shewed by the mouthes of all his Prophets that Christ should suffer he thus fulfilled by the malice of some and ignorance of others whom Satan incited with the greatest contumely and crueltie they could deuise to take Christs life from him In all which Christ suffered nothing but what the determinate counsell and foreknowledge of God purposed and appointed should be done For this was the Cup which his father gaue him to drinke and this was the houre and power of darknes when the Prince of the world came against him howbeit neither man nor deuill could haue any power at all against him but what was giuen them from aboue So that in all those wronges reproches and paines which were offered and inflicted on him by the rage of Satan and the wicked he saw the secret counsell and hand of God punishing our sinnes in his bodie and by that meanes satisfiyng the diuine iustice that was prouoked by our transgressions But no where doe the Scriptures deliuer that God with his immediate hand tormented the soule or body of his Sonne much lesse that he impressed the very paines of hell and of the damned on the soule of Christ which is your new found Redemption and satisfaction for the sinnes of men By his agonie in the garden you boldly and rashly presume it but by what logick you conclude it neither doe I conceaue nor can you declare Christ was SORROVVFVLL and AFRAID in the garden and began to be AMAZED ergo you thinke he felt or foresaw he should suffer the paines of the damned from the immediate hand of God Well these may be your hastie thoughts but this hath no ground in Arte reason nature or Scripture For many other things Christ might feare and this of all other things he could not feare How many things are there in God when we approach his presence how many things proceede there from God when we aduisedly marke his counsels and iudgements which may iustly ouerwhelme the weakenes of mans flesh with admiration and feare euen to astonishment The brightnes of Gods glory the greatnes of his power the deepenes of his counsels the sound of his voice the presence of his Angels the sight of his vengeance prepared or executed on others how many good and perfect men haue these things strooken into feares and mazes When Saint Iohn in the spirite sawe the shape of the sonne of man and heard his voice he fell downe as dead for feare When Daniel had seene the vision of the goat and the Ram he was afraid and fell vpon his face yea he was stricken and sicke certaine daies being astonished at the vision When the parents of Sampson saw the Angell ascend toward heauen in the flame of the Altar they fell on their faces to the ground and one of them said we shall surely die because we haue seene the Lord. When a light from heauen suddainly shined round about Paul as he was trauayling to Damascus he fell to the earth trembling and amazed When Isaac perceaued that he had ignorantly blessed Iacob in steede of Esau he was stricken with an exceeding great feare and trembling When the people saw the Creeple walking that was dayly layd at the gate of the Temple to aske almes and
and abhorre the vncleanesse of our sinne and in his iustice would pursue it to witnesse his vâ—…ter dislike and detestation thereof yeâ—… for so much as Christ himselfe was holy and vndefiled euen in his humane nature and did not thrust himselfe into this action but was called and annointed by God to this honor which God would yeelde to none but to his onely Sonne and this readines of the Sonne to lâ—…ke and obey his fathers counsell and decree and to pitie our miserie by laying our burden on his owne shoulders was in it selfe so glorious to God and gratious towards man that it could not bâ—… but most meritorious and acceptable to God the Author and accomplisher of mans Redemption by this meanes what cause could Christ haue to doubt of his fathers loue towards him or of his fathers approuing and accepting his office and seruice tending wholy to the perfourming of Gods will and aduauncing of Gods glorie But God was angrie with our sinnes though not with his sonne and that Anger Christ must beare before we could be freed from it The more Angrie God was with our sinnes the more contented he was with the person of his Sonne and euery part thereof that submitted himselfe to the purpose and pleasure of God to appease his wrath kindled against our offences And that Anger Christ did vndertake to quench by satisfiyng the iustice of God in such sort as seemed best to God himselfe and not by frustrating or declining it nor by suffering the substance of the same destruction and damnation which was due to vs. Yea this very point of Christs obedience and patience enduring and so vpholding Gods iustice according to Gods owne will respecting who he was that in this wise submitted and emptied him selfe was farre more contenting and pleasing to God then if the whole world had beene condemned for sinne to hell fire For God delighteth not in the destruction of the wicked but in the obedience of his Sonne he tooke infinite delight not reuenging him with rage as an enemie but imposing a fatherly correction on him for our sinnes which in his person could extend no farder that is to none other kinde of death and in ours would haue beene the eternall destruction of body and soule Wherefore the wisedome and goodnesse of God chose out the person of his owne Sonne purposely that neither our sinnes might be remitted as trifles skant prouoking his Anger nor his Iustice meete with such as no way deserued to be respected or spared but that the burden of our sinnes might be translated from vs who were vnworthy of all fauour and lye vpon the shoulders of his owne Sonne whom in all iustice he must and did most highly loue and tender and therefore could award no farder or other punishment against him for our sinnes then might stand with the moderation and affection of a father and try the obedience and submission of a sonne Sharpe was the chasticement of our peace on that part of our Sauiour which was capable of paine and smart least God should seeme to dally with our sinnes but not such as either exceeded his strength or any way chaunged or called in question Gods fauour towards him And so our Sauiour conceaued and resolued of all his sufferings that by Gods iustice they must haue in them griefe and anguish very painfull and offensiue to his humane nature because our sinnes were very lothsome and displeasing to Gods diuine nature yet so that nothing should be laid on him which might ouerwhelme or endanger his obedience or patience and that Gods purpose in so doing was to abolish sinne and abate his wrath his iustice being thus satisfied in the person of Christ Iesus and not to execute on his owne Sonne the fulnes of that vengeance which was prepared for sinne in men and Angels And where the Discourser prateth so much of Gods VERY wrath and PROPER vengeance for sinne to be executed on the bodie and soule of Christ if he meane the very same wrath and vengeance which is prepared for deuils and shall be executed on all the damned he openly blasphemeth For then must the Sonne of God be euerlastingly adiudged to hell fire as they are If hee flie to the substance and essence thereof he foolishly cauâ—…lleth or vainely seeketh to shift his hands of open impietie For if by substance and essence of hell fire prouided for sinne he meane only a sharpe and extreame paine then by this childish sophistrie an headach or toothach a fit of an ague or pang of the stone if the paine be sharpe are in substance and essence all one and the very same which the damned now suffer in hell since he is no way able to prooue that God is the immediate tormentor of soules in hell But thus to mocke and delude the dreadfull Iudgements of God against sinne and to play with the person of Christ in so waightie matters of our saluation is fitter for Pagans then Christians and well this Discourser may multiply the miste of his words but he shall neuer be able thence to derâ—…e any light of trueth If he meane the very same paine in soule or bodie which the damned suffer he runneth headlong into that impietie which he would seeme to shun For the bodies of the damned suffer hell fire which Christs did not and their Soules apprehend that God is their enemie and not onely hateth them but hath reiected accursed and condemned them for euer which to imagine of Christs soule is to charge him with plaine Infidelitie and Apostasie Christ therefoâ—…e rightly conceaued of his sufferings and knew God to be a gracious and louing father euen to his manhood though such was the constant course of Gods iustice to which Christ submitted himselfe that the price of our sinnes might not â—…e easie in the person of our Sauiour to make vs the more warie how to prouoke Gods iustice hereafter and to acknowledge our selues the more bound to him who with his no small smart redeemed vs and withall to ratifie the fearefull vengeance of God powred on the wicked to be most iust when as the exchange of our sinnes was so grieuous to the vndefiled and welbeloued manhood of the Sonne of God Since then God could no way be displeased with the nature office or action of Christ in offering himselfe a ransome for man which God himselfe first decreed before all worlds promised by his Prophers published by his Angels testified by signes and wonders and confirmed with his owne voyce from heauen and the sufferings of Christ were tempered with Gods loue proportioned to Christs strength supported with â—…oy accepted with fauour and rewardâ—…d with all honor in him and in vs for his sake what wound could this chastisement make in the depth of Christs soule when it was executed on his body or what could the soule of Christ conceaue more then that God was in deâ—…de angrie wâ—…th our sinnes and therefore would not accept our persons being in
ourselues vnrâ—…ghteous and odious vnto him And yet in mercy towaâ—…ds â—…s and honor â—…wards his Sonne God would make him the Redeemer and Sauiour of the world not neglecting his Iustice nor forgetting his loue but so mixing them both together that his dislike of our sinnes might appeare in the punishment of them and his relenting from the rigor of his Iustice in fauour of his onely Sonne might magnifiâ—… his mercy satisfie his wrath and enlarge his glory and declare in most ample manner the submission compassion and peâ—…fection of his Sonne as only worthy to performe that worke which procured and receaue that honor which followed mans Redemption Christ then suffered from the hand of God but mediate that is GOD DELIVERED him into the hands of sinners who were Satans instruments with all eproach and wrâ—…nge to put him to a contumelious and grieuous death God by his â—…ecret wisdome and iustice decâ—…eeing appointing and ordering what he should suffer at theiâ—… hands Our sinnes â—…e bare in his body on the tree not that his soule was free from feare sorrow 〈◊〉 derision and temptation but that the wicked and malitious â—…ewes practised all kind of shamefull violence and cruell tortuâ—…es on him by Whipping Racking pricâ—…ing and wounding the tenderest parts of his body whereby his soule â—…elt extreame and intoleâ—…able paines In all which he saw the determinate counsell of God and receaued in the garden from his father this Iudgement for our sinnes that he should be 〈◊〉 dâ—…liuered into the hands of sinners For had he not humbly submitted himselfe to obey his fatheâ—…s will no power in earth could haue preuailed against him but as he had often fortold his Disciples what the Priestes Scribes and Gentils should doe vnto him so when the hower was come which was foreappointed of God to obey his fathers will he yeelded himselfe into their hands they persuing him to death of enuie and malice but God thus perfourming euen by their wicked hands what he had â—…oreshewed by his Prophets that Christ should suffer For they not knowing him â—…or the wordâ—… of the Prophets fulfilled them in condemning him yea they fulfilled all things which were written of him So that no man shall need to runne to the immediate hand of God nor to the paines of hell for the punishment of our sinnes in the person of Christ the Iewes FVLFILLED ALL THINGS that were written of him touching his sufferings and therewith Gods anger against our sinnes was appeased and God himselfe reconciled vnto vs. Esay speaking of the violence done by the Iewes to Christ sayeth he was wounded for our transgressions and broken for our iniquities and with his stripes we are healed Thus the Lord layed vpon him the iniquitie of all vs and he bare our sinnes in his body on the tree by those sufferings before and on the Crosse which the Scriptures expresly declare and describe And as for the immediate hand of God tormenting the soule of Christ with the selfe same paines which the damned now suffer in hell which is this deuisers maine drift when he maketh or offereth any proofe thereof out of the word of God I shall be ready to receiue it if I can not refute it till then I see no cause why euery wandring witte should imagine what monsters please him in mans redemption and obtrude them to the faithfull without any sentence or syllable of holy Scripture I haue no doubt but all the godly will be so wise as to suffer no man to raigne so much ouer their faith with fancies and figures vnwarranted by the Scriptures vnknowen to all the learned and ancient councels and Fathers vnheard of in the Church of Christ till our age wherein some men applaude more their owne inuentions then all humane or diuine instructions The feare of bodily sufferings you thinke could not be the cause that there strained out from Christ much sweat of clotted blood You straine the text of the Euangelist to draw it to your bent Saint Luke hath no such words that there strained out from Christ much sweat of clotted blood he sayth Christes sweat was like drops of blood trickling downe to the ground Theophylact a Greeke borne and no way ignorant of his mother tongue expresseth Christes sweat in the garden by these words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christes body or face DISTILLED with plentifull drops of sweat And albeit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sometimes signifie the congealed parts of that which is otherwise liquid and compacted pieces of that which els is poudered yet often it noteth that which is thickâ—… in comparison with thinner or eminent in respect of plainer Now Christes sweat might be thicke by reason it issued from the inmost parts of his bodie and was permixed with blood or els it might breake out with great and eminent drops as comming from him violently and abundantly and being coloured with blood and congealed with colde might trickle downe like DROPS or strings of blood vpon the ground Howsoeuer the Scripture saith not his sweate was clotted blood but like to congealed or cooled blood neither that such clots were strained out from him but that his sweate being thicked and cooled on his face fell from him like strings of blood But grant there could be no reason giuen of Christs bloodie sweat in the garden no more then there can be of the issuing first of blood and then of water out of his side when he was dead which S. Iohn doth exactly note as strange but yet true will you conclude what please you because many things in Christ both liuing and dying weâ—…e miraculous I bind no mans conscience to any probabilities for the cause of this sweate but onely to the expresse wordes and necessarie consequents of holy Scripture and yet I wish all men either to be sober and leaue that to God which he hath concealed from vs or if they will needes be gessing at the reason thereof for certaine knowledge they can haue none by no meanes to relinquish the plaine words or knowen groundes of holy Scripture to embrace a fansie of their owne begetting The learned and ancient Fathers haue deliuered diuers opinions of this sweate which thou mayest see Christian Reader in my Sermons and which we shall haue occasion anon to reexamine euery one of them being as I thinke more probable and more agreeable to Christian pietie then this Discoursers dreame of hell paines or Gods immediate hand at that present tormenting of the soule of Christ. And if we looke to the order and sequence of the Gospell we shall finde that feruent zeale extreamely heating the whole bodie melting the spirits thinning the blood opening the pores and so colouring and thicking the sweate of Christ might in most likelihood be the cause of that bloodie sweate Which S. Luke seemeth to insinuate when he saith that after Christ was comforted by an Angell from heauen and so recouered from his
sense and case that I do Peruse the labours of that learned Father Bishop Iewel and see how often in his Replie to Harding and his Defence of the Apologie he calleth the testimonies of the ancient Fathers and Councels Authorities We rest sayth he vpon the Scriptures of God vpon the Authoritie of the ancient Doctours and Councels And againe to reckon vp the authorities of ANTIQVITIE it would be infinite The halfe communion by the authoritie of Gelasuis may well be called open sacriledge In the conclusion of the same booke I grant you haue alledged authorities sundrie and many such as I knew long before Verely I neuer denied but you were able to bring vs the names and shadowes of m◅ny Fathers You haue defended the open abomination of your stewes by the name and AVTHORITIE of S. Augustine You haue sought vp a companie of new petite Doctors Authors void of Authoritie full of vanities In the conclusion of his defence of the Apologie my Authorities of Doctors and Councels as you haue vsed them are few enough What meant you in fauour of open Stewes to shew vs the name and AVTHORITIE of S. Augustine Peter Martyr against Smithes bookes of the singlenesse of Priests sayeth In iudging of things obscure we must haue two waies or meanes to direct vs one i◅ward which is the Spirit the other outward which is the word of God Tum si ad haec patrum etiam authoritas accesserit valebit plurimum to these if the authoritie of Fathers be ioyned it is of great force So Chemnitius in his examination of the Tridentine Councell Quod de patrum authoritate sentimus etiam ab ipsis Patribus didicimus That which we hold touching the authoritie of the Fathers we learned of the Fathers themselues Where also he teacheth you this Rule worth the noting for your new found Redemption and the rest of your nouelties Sentimus etiam nullum dogma in ecclesia no◅m cum t◅ta antiquitate pugnans recipiendum We also confesse that no point of Doctrine which is new to the Church and repugnant to all antiquitie is to be receiued If the Fathers themselues will better please you I want not their example for the vse of that word which so much offendeth you Ierome in his Epistle to Damasus in very earnest manner maketh this petition Vt ◅ihi epistolis tuis siue tacendarum siue dicendarū hypostase◅n detur authoritas That AVTHORITIF may be giuen me saith he by your letters to vse or refuse the word hypostases Vincentius in his book against heresies mooueth this question Here some perchaunce will aske where as the Canon of the Scripture is perfect and abundantly sufficient in it selfe for all things quid opus est vt ei ecclesiasticae intelligentiae iungatur authoritas what neede is there that the authoritie of the ecclesiasticall interpretation should be ioyned with it The effect of his answere which is good for you to obserue that claime such libertie for your selfe to expound the Scriptures at your pleasure is this least euery man should wrest the Scriptures to his fansie and sucke thence not the truth but the patronage of his error Saint Augustine that is euery where carefull to yeeld the Scriptures their due reuerence yet giueth the word Authoritie to the decrees of Councels and writings of godly Fathers before his time Speaking of generall Councels he saith Quorum est in ecclesia saluberrima authoritas Whose authoritie is most wholsome in the Church And alleaging the testimonies of Irenaeus Cyprian Hilarius Ambrose Gregorie Chrysostome Basil and others against Iulian the Pelagian he concludeth Hoc probauimus Catholicorum authoritate sanctorum this haue we prooued by the authoritie of Godly Catholike men vt vestra fragilis quasi argutula nouitas sola authoritate conteratur illorum that your weake and sleigh noueltie might be ouerwhelmed with their onely authoritie For your contumacie is first to be repressed by their authoritie With these testimonies and so great authoritie of holy men thou must either by Gods mercy be healed or else thou must accuse the egregious and holy Doctors of the Catholike truth against which miserable madnes I must so answere that their faith may be defended against thee euen as the Gospell it selfe is defended against the wicked and professed enimies of Christ. If then this word seeme insolent to you which is so frequent with the best Diuines of former and latter times let your Reader iudge whether it be ignorance or insolence in you to stumble at so plaine a word as if the religious and auncient Fathers and lights of Christs Church were not worthy with you to be counted learned Authors nor their testimonies to be named Authorities fit to guide and lead others to the knowledge of the truth I trust no aduised Christian will challenge more authoritie to the Fathers then was giuen by those of Beraea to the Apostle nor deny indeede to any priuate man much lesse to a Minister to iudge and discerne in themselues not onely the words of men but euen of the sense and meaning of the Scripture by the Scripture it selfe which thing the Beraeans did and are commended by the holy Ghost for it I trust you claime no power to iudge of the Scriptures you may discerne the truth there written but with necessitie to beleeue not with libertie to iudge And if by your freedome you fasten on falsehood it is no excuse for you but a condemnation vnto you Saint Austen speaking of the bookes of the Prophets and Apostles saith quos omnino indicare non audeamus which we may not dare at all to iudge And where you say the Ber◅ans are commended by the holy Ghost for not beleeuing that Paul spake touching Religion till they had examined by the Scriptures and seene whether the truth were so as he vttered You speake not one◅y vnwisely and vntruely but if you would haue Christians to follow that course you shew intolerable pride against the word of God for the Beraeans were commended when as yet they neither beleeued in Christ nor acknowledged Pauls Apostleship for their readinesse to heare and care to search whether Paul spake trueth or no. This if you now assume to your selfe ouer Pauls words or writings you incurre the crime of flat impietie Pauls words to vs that beleeue without further search or other credit are of equall authoritie with the rest of the Scriptures and not to beleeue him till we examine and see the trueth of his doctrine is meere infidelitie Behold I paul say vnto you must suffice all Christians and if an Angel from heauen preach otherwise than he preached we must hold him accursed For our comfort that beleeue and to perswade them which as yet beleeue not we may search and see the consent betwixt the Prophets and Apostles yea the sonne of God sent men to the writings of Moses and the
such witlesse and senselesse fansies He proceedeth to shew my disdaine to the Fathers for insolent reiecting all their opinions touching the causes of Christs Agonie in the Garden and of his complaint on the Crosse. For answere first I desire to know whether you allow of all these causes or no you seeme to refuse theÌ„ here for herein you shewed not your own opinion but the Iudgement of the Fathers Elsewhere your selfe are resolute for some of those causes and against other some And yet before all these interpretations you say are sound stand well with the rules of Christian pietie thus variable you are in that wherin you seeme most resolute When you know what it is to be constant you shall doe well to talke of inconstancie till that time your owne doctrine will most disgrace your owne doings You catch oft at contrarieties in my writings make good but one and then prate at your pleasure Otherwise men will thinke it to be the weaknesse of your witte or stifnesse of your stomacke that can not or will not rightly conceiue that which is truely spoken Touching the cause of Christs Agonie in the Garden since the Scriptures doe not expresse it I said it was curiositie to search it presumption to determine it impossible certainely to conclude it yet for that you made this your chiefe aduantage that there could be coniectured none other cause of Christes exceeding sorrow in the Garden besides the present suffering of Hâ—…ll paines in his soule I gaue the Reader to vnderstand how many there might be besides your deâ—…ce which of all others was least tollerable or probable Now you would know whether I ALLOVV of ALL these causes or no. I haue answered you that already if you had but eares to heare it I did not acknowledge any of these to be precisely or particulaâ—…ly mentioned in the Scriptures as the right cause of that Agonie but if you would needes goe to coniecturing I said there might be conceiued so many and euery one of them more LIKLIE and godly then your supposing of Hell paines at that instant in Christs soule I persist still in the same minde what change finde you in me Else where I am resolute you say for some of these causes and against other some And yet before I said all thâ—…se interpretations are sound and stand well with the rules of Christian pictie It is more then a penance to be troubled with a trifler that hath neither eyes to see nor head to apprehend what is said When I came to consider of the generall respects in Christ whence that Agonie might arise as the persons were two God with whom and Man for whom Christ delt in that worke of our redemption so I resolued the cause of Christes Agonie could not proceede but either from his submission to God to whose will and hand he must subiect himselfe if he would ransome man or from compâ—…ssion of mans miserie for whom he was willing to lay downe his life A thiâ—…d ground of Christs feare I grant I see none For that Diuels should torment Christes soule I leaue that inuention to your deuotion But doe I determine any particular cause contrarie to my first profession when I stand resolute that from one or both of these fountaines the cause of Christs feare and sorrow must be deriued If I doe not then piper-like doe you play with â—…y variablenesse when you doe not so much as attend that I am resolute in the generall dueties of pietie and charitie which I ascribe to our Sauiour though I bee not resolute in any particular cause of his feare at that present as I at first professed I neither could nor would be by reason the Scriptures do not expressely mention any Againe what dulnesse is this to say I am resolute against sâ—…me of these causes for that I make two principall heads whereon the rest depend Can not your wisedome see that Christes SVBMISSION to the Maiestie of God sitting in iudgement and his DEPRICATION of Gods wrath proceede from his religious and humble subiection to the will and hand of God As also that his sorrow for the REIECTION of the Iewes and DISPERSION of his Church and his LAMENTATION of mans sinne grow from his compassion on mans miserie And lastly that the VOLVNTARIF DEDICATION of his blood to bee shed for the sinnes of the world and the SANCTIFICATION OF HIS PERSON to offer the true and eternall sacrifice partake with both the former respects Is it a contradiction with you to see many branches on one stemme many Springs in one well many members in one bodie And so childish you are that you takeâ—…-meale for egges and interpretations for â—…ses and then you crake of my contrarieties how much I ouer shot my selfe For where I bring diuers Expositions of Christs words on the Crosse My God my God why hast thou forsaken mee and say in the end All these interpretations are soâ—…d anâ—… stand with the rules of Christian pietie you in a dreame or drow sinesse choose which you will imagine I say ALL THESE CAVSES of Christes Agonie are sound anâ—… stand well with the rules of Christian pietie and so contradict my former resolution as if onely two were sound and not the rest where in trueth I neither auoâ—…ch the one nor the other such conflicts you make with your owne follies and get the conquest not on my Assertions but on your owne most foolish ouer-sights Yet these agree not with any circumstance of the Passion and onâ—… of them crosseth and ouerthroweth an other Take first the paines to prooue somewhat and then challenge your priuiledge to prate at your pleasure otherwise your word iâ—… no warrant for any wise man to depend on The Scriptures testifie first Christs sorow in the Garden and then his sweat like blood His sorow where he saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 my sâ—…le is euery way grieued or afflicted with sorrow euen vnto death His sweate after he was comforted by an Angel from heauen and fell to feruent prayer So saith Saint Luke An Angel appeared to him from heauen comforting him And being in an Agonie he prayed more earnestly and his sweate fell on the earth like drops of blood Now an Agonie doth not properly or necessarily inferre either fainting feare or deadly paine as you misconceiue but noteth a contention or intention of bodie or minde whereby wee labour to performe our desire and striue against the danger which may defeate vs as in place conuenient shall more fully appeare Where also you shall see that not feare but feruencie in all likelihood was the cause of that bloodie sweate In the meane time it is plaine that Christ professed he had sundrie causes of his sorrow in the Garden for hee sayth my soule is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on euery side oppressed with sorow And what vrged him to that agonie or vehemencie of prayer which S. Luke speaketh of after he was comforted
of the liuing sacrifices what needed the burning of the same after it was dead and senselesse obscurely to intimate if not falsely that the fire of affliction as you would haue it should consume the Messias God had therefore another meaning as I take it in commanding ech sacrifice after it was slaine to be offered to him by fire Forwhere of all creatures subiect to mans sight and sense fire was the fittest for the light heate force and motion thereof to designe vnto the people the brightnesse of Gods glorie the zeale of his holinesse the grace of his Spirit and seate of his habitation in the heauens God gaue the Iewes fire from heauen to burne perpetually on his Altar which did teach them with what cleannesse of hands and feruentnesse of heart the things which hee required should bee offered vnto him and did separate the sacrifices dedicated vnto God from all prophane abuse and humane vse and made them ascend towardes the place of his glorious presence that he might accept them with fauour and be pleased with them All which significations of heauenly fire were most perfectly accomplished in the sacrifice of Christ Iesus For neuer man nor Angel offered vnto God any seruice with like puritie and charitie as the Lord Iesus offered himselfe to his Fathers will and that his oblation did not onely clense his body from all corruption of mortalitie and infirmitie as appeared by his resurrection but pearced the heauens with admirable celeritie and efficacie and preuailed in the presence of God to bee a sweete smelling sauour for all the sonnes of God Some of these things you seeme to acknowledge As fire to signifie the Acceptation of Christs death in that it was a sacrifice of a sweete sauour ascending vp to God What reason then haue you that fire should note the wrath of God powred out on Christes soule and body before he died Shall one and the same fire in one and the same sacrifice import both gracious acceptance with God and terrible vengeance from God These be contraries in mine eyes whatsoeuer they be in yours That fire in sacrifices did shew Gods fauour and not his anger the sacrifices of Gedeon Salomon and Elias doe plainly prooue which God with fire from heauen consumed not in token of any displeasure against them or dislike of their offerings but in signe of very fauorable acceptations both of their persons and sacrifices Euen so at the first offerings of Aaron the glory of the Lord appeared to all the people and there came a fire from the Lord and consumed the burnt offering vpon the Altar which when all the people saw they gaue a shout for ioy and fell on their faces This fire descending from God and consuming that sacrifice God commaunded to keepe burning for euer on his Altar and none might approch to him with any other fire in incense or offering in so much that when Nadab and Abihu the sonnes of Aaron tooke strange â—…ire to offer before the Lord and not of that which alwaies burned on the Altar God destroyed them with fire The fire then which consumed the sacrifices of the Iewes was miraculously deliuered them by God and ioyfully receaued of all the people and therefore did not argue to them any wrath or vengeance on their sacrifices but rather the fauour and good liking of God which the Scripture noteth by the sweete odour of the sacrifice As when Noah made his burnt offerings to ascend by fire the Scripture saith the Lord smelled a sauour of rest that is he shewed himselfe to be appeased and his anger to rest So when Aaron and his sonnes were to be consecrated Priests God said to Moses Thou shalt make to smell by fier that is thou shalt burne the whole Ram as a burnt offering it shall be to the Lord a sauour of rest that is a pleasing sacrifice And for that cause God willed the Iewes in their peace offerings whereby they gaue thanks for their safetie and prosperitie to vse fire and saith of it ISSHE this burning by fire or this sacrifice made by fire is a sauour of rest vnto the Lord. And so in incense which Saint Iohn resembleth to the prayers of the Saints fire was likewise required to teach them that their prayers went vp before God as the smoke of sweete odours and were accepted of him Then not affliction or indignation on the Sacrifice was declared by the fire which God commaunded to be vsed in all kinds of sacrifices but rather an ascending vp to the presence of God and an accepting thereof in the sight of God which is farre from your suffering of hell paines in the soule of Christ for which you bable so much in both your bookes But the Apostle sayth as the bodies of beasts were burnt without the campe so Christ suffered without the gate Were it granted that fire in Sacrifices did signifie probation or affliction which is no way proued you are no whit the neerer to your suffering of hell paines in the soule of Christ. For the bodies of beasts sayth the Apostle were burnt which can by no pretense of these wordes be stretched farder than the afflictions of Christes bodie when he was carried to be crucified without the gate And the chopping of the holocaust in pieces that it might the more conueniently be layed on the wood to burne maketh as slender proofe that Christes soule suffered the paines of hell notwithstanding your graue deuice that Christes soule was chopt in pieces and not his bodie which conceits of yours declare your follie but helpe not your cause Those Sacrifices whereof part was burnt by fire and the rest reserued for the Priest and sometimes for the owner that brought them to feast before the Lord had their bloud shed at the doore of the Tabernacle as well as the other and so resembled the death of Christ no lesse than the other though God would haue no part of the one to be eaten by the Priests or people as the other were but to be wholly consumed by fire because they were wholly reserued or dedicated vnto him And this the Apostle respecteth in that comparison which he maketh of the bodies of beasts burnt without the campe whereof the Priests that serued in the Tabernacle could not be partakers They were consumed by fire because the Priests should not eat thereof to foreshew as the Apostle noteth that such as were addicted to the seruice and ceremonies of the Law and the outward Temple could not be partakers of the trueth which is in Christ except they did leaue those elements of the Law which seemed so glorious in their eyes and followed Christ out of the gate bearing his reproch whose bloud was most holy and most sufficient to sanctifie the people though hee were cast out of the citie to suffer as a malefactour and wicked person Neither were the dead bodies of those beasts consumed by fire out
deuice to the doctrine of our saluation than what is euidently reuealed and directly witnessed in the Scriptures Whether it be of Christ sayth Austen or of any other thing what soeuer touching the faith I say not if we who are no way comparable to him that so spake but that which followeth if an Angell from heauen teach you BESIDES that which you haue receiued in the Scriptures of the Law and the Gospell holde him accursed It is a manifest fall from the faith sayth Basil either to abrogate any thing that is written or to bring in any thing that is not written For when once we beleeue the Gospel sayth Tertullian this we first beleeue that there is nothing besides which we ought to beleeue So that the meere bloud and single bodie of Christ are but sleights of yours with vnknowen phrases to draw your Reader from asking or eying your proofes for the death of Christes soule and the paines of the damned to be suffered by him before wee could be redeemed The Scriptures are maine and manifest for that which I beleeue and teach and which the whole Church of Christ before mee taught and beleeued these fifteene hundred yeeres afore your conceit of hell paines in the soule of Christ was either hatcht or heard of The sufferings of the soule and the wrath of God which things you now catch holde on to make some introduction to your secret and priuate fansies are too generall to inferre either the death of the soule or the paines of the damned except to the rest of your absurdities you will adde these that the soule neuer suffereth but it dieth the death of spirits and that Gods anger in this life hath none other effects but damnation Here you vrge a reason against vs if then our soules be not redeemed by the blood of Christ our bodies haue no benefite of Redemption from death You hunt so headily after aduantages of words by some ambiguitie in them that you neither remember what the Scriptures teach nor what your selfe defend nor when I vse a word in the same sense that the Apostle doth It is not my deuise but the Apostles doing to take REDEMPTION of the body for the incorruption of the same We sigh in our selues saith Paul wayting for the Redemption of our body And againe you are sealed by the holy spirit of God vnto the day of Redemption When that day shall be our Sauiour telleth vs in these words When the powers of heauen shall be shaken and you see the sonne of man come in a cloud with power and great glory then lift vp your heads for your Redemption draweth neere In all which places Redemption is taken for none of those mercies or graces which are bestowed on Gods children in this life but for that glorie and immortalitie which shall be reueiled on them when Christ shall come to iudge the world and namely the Redemption of the body for that incorruption wherewith our vile bodies shall bee changed and made like to his glorious body Take then the Redemption of the body for the incorruption of the same as the Apostle plainely doth and I did and see what absurditie or obscuritie there is in my reason which you so much wrangle with and wonder at as though it passed all vnderstanding The Redemption which we haue in this life by the bloud of Christ must needes bee either of body or of soule we haue no more parts to be redeemed by Christ. But the Redemption of our bodies we haue not in this world we must waite for it till this corruptible put on incorruption The Redemption therefore which we haue in this life or shal haue before the last day is the Redemption of our soules And so the words of Peter You were Redeemed with the precious bloud of Christ and of the Saints in heauen saying to the Lambe Thou hast redeemed vs to God by thy bloud pertaine expresly to the Redemption of their soules because their bodies then did and yet do lie in corruption What so strange monsters or marueiles doeth your Logicall head finde in this reason that you should make such wonderizations at it and protestations against it Is it not open and easie to all that be meanely witted or soberly minded But you haue three things to note in my words which you alleage 1. The Proposition is vaine and Illogicall hauing no consequence in it at all It is a speciall point of Art memoratiue in you to note three things and vtterly to forget two of them For in this whole Section you doe not so much as mention any second or third thing to bee noted in those words which you cite The first and al which you note is that my proposition is vaine Illogicall and vncoherent Your idle and vntheologicall head hath ouer busied it selfe with many mad multiplications and what ifs vpon this proposition and yet you come nothing neere the sense or coherence of it The Proposition hath two parts whereof the second is either an illation out of the Apostles words vpon the first being a supposition of yours if we limit it to the time of this life or if wee speake without restraint of time as you doe it is a necessarie consequent to the former being the condition and cause of the latter That our soules are not redeemed by the bloud of Christ but by his soule is a resolution of yours wherewith you giue a fresh on-set in the next Section as the Reader shall there perceiue though here in shew you somwhat relent after your inconstant maner That being a position of yours I added by the Apostles warrant that our bodies haue not their Redemption in this life but must stay for it till the day of Redemption or generall resurrection And so the reason standeth If our soules be not here redeemed by the bloud of Christ which is your Assertion our bodies by the Apostles doctrine haue no Redemption in this life But this That wee should presently haue no Redemption in body or soule by the bloud of Christ is quite m contrarie to the words of Peter who sayth Yee are redeemed by the bloud of Christ not yee shall be and of the soules in heauen that say to Christ thou hast redeemed vs by thy bloud when their bodies were rotten in the earth Since therefore either body or soule must haue Redemption in this life and the body as Paul assureth vs hath not Redemption in this life Ergo the Redemption which we haue in this life by the bloud of Christ must bee referred to our soules and our bodies must expect the generall day of Redemption in the end of the world before they shall haue it If the sober and wise Reader vnderstand not this reason or can dislike the sequence of it I am content he shall condemne it as darke and obscure but if it be open to all mens eyes saue yours then is your
and drawing the body with the powers and parts thereof to the obedience of faith so farre as the law of sinne lusting in the flesh will permit and the measure of grace giuen vs doth preuaile Against this doctrine you would seeme to bring many obiections but they are such as will prooue you either to vnderstand nothing at all besides your owne fansies or to play with shadowes when you most professe to be serious and earnest Your first is Heresies Turcisme and Atheisme are committed and determined simplâ—…ly in the mind without any necessarie imployment of any parts of the bodie If you can tell me what religion you were of in your cradle before you did speake or vnderstand your instance were of some waight But if men be taught as well errors as trueth by their parents and masters then this is a wodden reason to make vs beleeue that heresies are inspired without teaching or hearing S. Paul saith Faith commeth by hearing and so I trust you did first learne it and not by reuelation If we be not borne Christians in knowledge but must be taught no more are any men borne Iewes Turkes or Heretikes but their eares and hearts must be first infected with the tongues or pennes of others This is one of your surest weapons wherewith you thought to doe great workes but put it vp at such strawes children will not stumble The first inuenters of heresies you will say were not taught The first authors of errours shut their eyes or eares against the trueth offered them and so declined from trueth to falsehood by leaning rather to their owne corrupt iudgements grounded on earthly reasons then to the voyce of God directing them aright For why doe men disbeleeue and impugne the word of God as all heretikes do but because they measure diuine things that passe their reach by humane sense and experience which are not gathered without the bodie The Turkes are strangers you thinke to the word of God and Atheists are vtter despisers of it The Turke destitute of trueth and so notable rightly to iudge of Gods fauours in this life bendeth his eyes on the worldly miseries of Christians and comparing them with the victories and felicities as he thinketh of his owne nation condemneth the faith of Christ as displeasant to God by reason of the manifold afflictions of the faithfull and preferreth his owne profession and Mahomet the first erector of it as most acceptable to God because they haue their desires in this world and are conquerors ouer Christians not knowing the finall reward of the one and of the other after this life Atheists are caried with almost the same respects to denie or despâ—…se the power and prouidence of God For they being earthly minded and seeing the wicked and prophane persons not onely free from punishment but most to flourish in this life doe hence collect there is no God whose patience and iustice they deride because hee dispenseth not transitorie things according to their expectation Further as the Angels sinned in the beginning by their meere spirituall conceit against God so nothing letteth but that man in his Angel-like nature the reasonable soule may sinne likewise without any bodily meanes thereunto This is another of your reasons not much vnlike the former For in Angels which now are deuils their vnderstanding and will might and did sinne because they were spirits and other essentiall partes in them we doe not know In men that cannot be because they consist of bodie and soule and haue many powers of the soule permixed with the bodie and so must sin in both the parts of their nature before they can sin as the Angels did that is in their whole substance If then you see no difference betweene Angels that are only spirits and men that must haue bodies as well as soules before they can be men your Angel-like nature is not very bright If you see the difference and yet vrge your consequence that is a meere spirituall conceite of yours but vtterly voyde of all reason For as well men as Angels must sinne in their whole natures least whiles you place one part in hell as nocent and the other in heauen as innocent you bring vs as strange iudgements as you doe doctrines In Gods iudgement Ea solummodo quaeruntur quae cum corpore gessit those things onely are required saith Cyrill which man committed with his bodie Neither will this serue your turne that the bodie is the instrument of the soule For as whiles man liueth many faculties of the soule are tempered with the bodie so when man sinneth the whole soule is not guiltie if the sensitiue powers and affections of the soule be exempted from sinne And since by Gods ordinance after Adams fall the corruption of sinne first riseth in the bodie the information and tentation to sinne commeth from the bodie and the consent of the soule to sinne is impressed on the bodie as also willing subiection to sinne is yeelded by the bodie this is let sufficient why the soule alone neither can nor doeth sinne in this life without her bodie Also as we can thinke well without vsing our bodie God so inspiring vs so may we thinke ill which is sinne our inborne corrupt vnderstanding and reason and will moouing vs only If Gods power be not tied to the course of nature prescribed vs will you thence inferre that we are likewise freed from it He that framed the heart can open it and alter it as pleaseth him but that is no charter for vs to chalenge any knowledge saue what is naturally gathered with our eyes or with our eares or supernaturally reuealed to vs. Wisedome infused from our cradles we haue none we KNOVV not our right hand from our left till by time we be taught and our teachers be they men or Angels must vse our outward senses or our inward imaginations to direct and instruct vs otherwise we can neither conceaue nor vnderstand what they say or shew since they can not lighten our hearts And when God doth inspire vs with that which is good he not onely openeth our hearts but filleth them with the loue of his truth goodnesse without which all knowledge is nothing Now the loue of God diffused in our hearts here on earth raiseth the selfe same inward and naturall motion of the heart which is incident to that affection and which other kindes of loue doe least our hearts should be colder and slower in louing God who requireth all the partes and powers of soule and bodie to be deuoted to his loue then they were in affecting and louing the world So that first your Antecedent is false for things inspired must be embraced with the whole heart before they can please God and your consequent is â—…orse since God worketh aboue nature in things that be good and leaueth vs in things that be euill to the naturall course of our corrupt condition which receaueth sinne from the soule and
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 standing What an agonie is in doubt or feare to missâ—… of that we vndertake we are agonized Galene the chiefe of Physicians and well skilled in the perturbations and commotions of the bodie that come from the bloud or spirits noteth of what affections an agonie is compounded ' Fâ—…are sayth he doth prâ—…sently driue the bloud and spirits inward towards their fountaine c Galenus dâ—…â—…ausis comatâ—…n li. 2. and contracteth them together by cooling the vttermost parts of the bodie and anger doth as suddenly heat them diffund and send them foorth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and that which in Greeke is called an agonie is compounded of them both and hath inequall motions according to the predominant affection Aristotle a great Philosopher in the knowledge of naturall things not only sheweth that there may be an agonie without feare as when we attempt things honest and commendable though diâ—…cult d Arist Rhetoricorum li. 1. cap. 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for which men striue and are agpmozed without feare but also that sweating in an agonie commeth rather from indignation and zeale than from feare e Idem Problemat sect 2. quest 26. An agonie sayth he is not the passing of the naturall heat from the higher parts of the bodie vnto the lower as in feare but it is rather an increase of heat as in anger and indignation And he that is in an agonie is not troubled with feare or colde but with expectation of the euent Wherein Theophrastus not much behinde him agreeth with him f Theophrastus de Sudoribus 12. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 An agonie is not the remouing of the naturall heat but the increasing thereof as in anger And heat doth drie the outmost parts of the bodie I speake not this to bind Christes sweate in the Garden wholy to naturall causes but to shew that neither Diuinitie Philosophy nor Physicke doe permit that feare or sorow which coole the blood and quench the spirits should be the cause of this bloudie sweate but that rather as the Euangelist expresseth it came from strength and contention of zeale whiles Christ most feruently prayed for that which he was very desirous and in present expectation to obtaine An Angell appeared from heauen g Luc. 22. 43. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 strengthning him saith the Scripture no question with a message from God For Angels otherwise were not in this case to entermeddle And then Christ h vers 44. entring into an Agonie that is into a vehement contention of mind to preuaile against that which resisted or hindred him he prayed more feruently From this feruencie of zeale and contention of minde came that bloudie sweate which the Euangelist mentioneth which whether we make to be according to Nature or aboue Nature it could not proceede from feare or sorrow as some men imagine For feare doth driue the bloud inward and coole it and so can not thinne it and expell it by the outmost parts and pores of the Body The Physitian that wrote the Booke de vtilitate Respirationis amongst Galens works saith i Li. de vtilitaâ—…e Respirationiâ—… Galen attribut â—…om 7. Contingit Poros ex multo aut feruido spiritu vsque adeo dilatari vt etiam exeat sanguis per eos â—…iatque sudor sanguineus It sometimes happeneth that abundant or feruent spirits doe so dilate the pores of the bodie that bloud passeth by them and so the sweate may be bloudie If we leane not to the course of Nature for the cause of Christs bloudie sweate then Hilaries Rule is very sound k Hilarius dâ—… Trinitate li 10. It is no Infirmitie which power did aboue the custoâ—…e of Nature No man then may dare impute Christs sweate to weakenesse because it is against Nature to sweat bloud Beda followeth him in the l Beda in Luc. cap. 22. same words Rupertus in larger m Rupertus de victoria verbi Dei li. 12. ca. 21. This is vnwonted this is aboue nature the flesh whole the skinne not cut for bloude to runne out of all the body and to fall on the earth as it were sweate Lyra receaueth the same According to the Iudgement of diuers n Lyra in Luc. ca. 22. this was supernaturally done that bloud should come foorth in steede of sweate that so Christ euen then might begin to shed his bloud for our saluation Then neither in Diuine nor humane learning is there any necessitie that the feare of your hell paines should be the cause of this sweate which Augustine Prosper and Bernard ascribe vnto Christs wil and power for a mysticall signification as I haue shewed in my * Serm. pag. 38. 39. Sermons Thus see we by the words of the holy Ghost that in the Garden Christs Soule was affected with feare and afflicted with sorrow his prayer prooueth his submission and intention of minde after comfort sent him from heauen by an Angell and his bloudie sweate if we attribute it to nature must come from zeale if we referre it to Christs power aboue Nature might haue many causes to vs vnknowne in particular though we can ghesse at the generall Of all these circumstances actions and affections there can no one direct cause be designed in speciall except in large termes we will say the worke of our Redemption was the cause of them all but neither pains nor suffrings can precisely be determined to be the proper ground of them all since after comfort from heauen he fell to most feruent prayer and therein to his bloudie sweat much lesse can you conclude that hell paines were the right and true cause thereof So that I haue more reason to reiect your maior proposition as apparently false than you haue right to pronounce it firme because you can denie mine assertion by flinging off all the Fathers as vnworthy to haue their iudgements regarded outfacing the Scriptures with phrases and figures to bring them to your bent But in the kinds of paines which Christ suffered in the Garden we doubt as much as in the causes of his agonie You must therefore declare what maner of paines you meane in your proposition before we shall fully vnderstand you p Defenc. pag. 91. li. 16. You meane it seemeth that Christ suffered paines in his soule by reason of the strength and zeale of his holy affections and that those were the proper and maine causes of that his most wofull and miraculous agonie and complaint Therefore not only extraordinarie paines inflicted vpon him by way of proper punishment as my proposition intendeth You seeke nothing but by confusion to couer and colour your absurd and false doctrines and that maketh you huddle and heape things together without all distinction or exposition Christes agonie in the Garden was before any paines inflicted on his bodie or soule other than feare or sorrow which were painfull affections rising from diuers occasions and causes as we shall afterward see His complaint
he groned in spirite 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and troubled or affected him selfe If this Rule be true which hath the grounds of faith and the words or the holie Ghost for a foundation then your assertion is false and against the faith that tkese were alwaies in Christ and alwaies caused an he 〈◊〉 in him For you imply a continuall necessitie of sorrow and griefe in the Soule of Christ where the Scriptures and Fathers teach vs that nothing could 〈◊〉 griefe or sorrow on him but when he himselfe would And that Iesus sometimes reicyced and l Luc. 10. v. 21. exulted in Spirit giuing thankes to his Father for hiding the mysteries of his kingdome from the wise and prudent and reuealing them to seelie ones the 〈◊〉 is euident You therefore as your manner is graunt that which is false and deny that which is true For what if Christ often though not alwaies sorrowed for these three aforesaid is that any proofe that 〈◊〉 Passion approching where he sawe 〈◊〉 lewes should call for the vengeance of his bloud to be on them and their children and was now by most earnest ardent prayer to obtaine remission of sinnes direction of his spirit and protection from Satan for his whole Church the Time and place now 〈◊〉 requiring it he should not with greater sorrow behold the one and with more 〈◊〉 zeale intreat the other But m Desenc pa. 94. li. 37. I strangely deceiue my selfe you say if I thinke that any or ali of these did so farre exceede in him as to procure his most dreadfull and bloudy Agony When I heare you speake some truth or see you vnderstand any thing right I will more regard your word then now I doe That these things might be the causes thereof shall plainly appeare to the sober and aduised Reader when we come to the discussing of them Howbeit I doe not say that euery one of these sixe was the whole cause of his Agonie as you childishly carpe or that these sixe were the sole causes of his Agonie but these respects were such as might most exceedingly grieue and most inwardly affect the Soule of Christ making now way by prayer to procure the course of mans Redemption to be actually and effectually decreed and pronounced at his instance which he would after perfect with patience Neither are there greater workes in mans redemption then these that were now in hand with which if you thinke it not likely nor possible the Soule of our Sauiour should be mightily affected your erroneous Imagination is farre stranger then my position of pietie and possibilitie for as if you aske me what the Angell that came from heauen said to Christ in the Garden I must openly professe I take vpon me no such knowledge but leaue Gods secrets to himselfe and his Sonne so what occasions besides these might at that instant affect the Soule of Christ I dare not determine though you be so desperate that you nothing doubt Christ then felt in Soule from the immediate hand of God the selfe same paines which the damned doe in hell Notwithstanding the Scriptures insinuate no such suspition much lesse auouch any such Doctrine for mans redemption n Defenc pag. 95 li. 1. For the Reiection of the Iewes what reason bring you Christ wept ouer their Cittie ergo now at his Passion he was driuen into his dreadfull Agonie for this cause You must make your owne match or else you will quickly marre all Where I professed it impossible certainly to conclude the true cause of Christs Agonie your wisedome taketh a part of my words and clappeth on a Conclusion to them of your owne stamping and then you say the Argument is nought and so nimble you be at nothing that where I repeate sixe causes that might be concurrent therein you will haue me inferre that euery one of them was the whole and sole cause thereof But your mastership is to warme to be wise and to selfe-willed to be sound you doe not so much as see or care why I tooke this in for one of the causes that might meete in this Agonie The reuerent o Sermo pag. 19. li. 4. regard I had to the Iudgements of Ambrose Ierom Augustine and Bede who obserued this before me as one of the causes that might be of Christs sorrow in the Garden made me number this amongst the rest howsoeuer you spurne them away like foote-bals and thinke with a wilde gallop to winne the Goale But soft Sir first their opinions lie in your way which wise men will respect before your emptie wordes and lasie likelihoods that haue no salt in them besides the sharpnesse of your humour Secondly my reasons to my purpose are auaileable enough though you mishape them with a senselesse error of your own as if euerie of these six were the single and sole cause of this agonie There can no one particular cause be assigned of Christes feare sorrow and zeale in the Garden but since himselfe is a witnesse that his Soule was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on euery side pressed with sorrow my proofes which you cannot auoide inferre that amongst others this might be one cause of his sorrow And so much those Fathers professe as I haue formerly shewed and you cannot decline them but with impudent flurting at them that p Defenc. pag. 95. li. 15. this verily cannot stand with any reason But of our Reasons let the Reader Iudge Christ wept at the sight of Ierusalem when he remembred her desolation by the hands of the Romanes What griefe then was it to him in all reason to foresee the reiection of that people from the sauour of God by their rash and wicked desire to haue his bloud on them and their children at the time of his arraignment before Pilate If Moses and Paul so vehemently 〈◊〉 at the fall of their bretheren according to the flesh that for their sakes the one wished to be wiped out of the Booke of God the other most sacredly protested the great heauinesse and continuall anguish that he felt in hart for them how much more then did it grieue the Sauiour of the world who farre exceeded both the other in compassion and mercie to see himselfe that came to blesse them and saue them to be the ruine and stone of offence that should stumble them and their children striking them with perpetuall blindnesse and bruizing them with euerlasting perdition through their vnbeliefe To this what answere you q Defenc. pag. 95. li. 28. It prooueth that Christ surely had very great pittie and commiseration of them but nothing else in the world I professed to prooue no more Why then should not this be one of the causes that mooued Christ to sorrow in the Garden where he confesâ—…ed his Soule was on euery side heauie r Ibid. li. 30. Christ might haue farre greater pittie of them then Moses or Paul had and yet he was able to carrie his affection farre more patiently
of his bloudie sweate or of that part of his piaier Father if it be possible let this cup passe from me Is that a reason this was not respected by Christ at that time because he had The different affections in Christes agony had different causes diuers other assaults and seas of sorow touching himselfe and others as well as touching the Iewes what hobling is this to aske one entire cause for so many different affections and actions as Christ shewed in his agonie where the Scriptures note not only feare and sorow on euery side but extreame humilitie and ardent zeale with such feruencie of spirit in praier that the sweat brake from him like droppes of bloud who that sought trueth or reade but the words of the Euangelists would thus cauill with matters of such moment Christ was in these passions and praiers by the space of an houre for so himselfe said to Peter f Matth. 26. What could ye not watch with me one houre and he praied 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 more intentiuely or more feruently after he was strengthned by an Angell then before Shall we thinke he said nothing all that while in his praiers but only these words O my father if it be possible let this cupe passe from me This he repeated thrise as the Scripture obserueth but his praiers were longer and extended to other things except we thinke Christ was an houre repeating three lines Besides the Scriptures note a change in his praiers For after the Angel from heauen appeared to him and strengthened him f Luc. 22. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 then entering into an agonie he praied more earnestly than before so that his sweat trickled downe to the ground like droppes of bloud You say there must be one entire cause of all these passions So you say but which way doe you or can you goe about to prooue it saue by the liquor of your owne lips which is weaker then water to glew these things together g Defenc. pag. 95 li. 21. The worke of Christ at this time wrought by him is by a proper and peculiar name iustly called his passion not his compassion Which I would haue you to note A man may soon note the worthinesse of your arguments that when neither by truth nor reason you can preuaile you fall to collude with the names of passion and compassion As if Christes passion did not sometimes import the whole historie of his death and sufferings wherein are confessions reprehensions predictions praiers and promises of Christ as well as paines endured And did it note noe more but paines are not the passions and affections of feare and sorow as painfull many times to the soule as the stripes and wounds of the bodie Such trifles you take for triple engins when your conceits must be concluded all other mens arguments haue no shape of any reason with you so deepely you are in loue with your selfe and your owne inuentions be they neuer so ill-fauoured or mishapen h Defenc. pag. 96. li. 2. Lastly those holymen it seemeth hauing their thoughts wholly defixed on their vehement pittie towards the Iewes earnestly and constantly wished that the cuppe of Gods eternall wrath might come vpon themselues that the Iewes who deserued it might scape But Christ in his passion contrariewise desired that cuppe which he tasted to be to bitter and to violent for him might passe away from himselfe If your suppositions of Moses and Paule were graunted you which yet are no way true they make the stronger against you though you dissemble the sight thereof For if pittie towards the Iewes so farre preuailed with those two being the seruants of Christ that they yeelded their soules to eternall torments as you imagine to saue their Brethren how great reason then hath it that the Messias himselfe in whom was the fullnesse of all mercie might be mooued with such inward compassion for that whole nation that he most earnestly and frequently praied in the Garden to haue this cuppe that is this maner of death whereby the Iewes should perish to passe from him as Origen Ierom Ambrose and Bede expound those wordes and though your hellish humour be so hoat and so haughtie that you pronounce of euerie thing there is no semblance of reason in this yet the considerate Reader will find in those mens iudgments whom I haue named and produced more sap and pith then in your hell paines For seeing the affection of mercy hath beene so mightie in men that they were more then perplexed with this griefe what bring you but babling to shew that Christ might not feruently pray if so it pleased God not to make his death the meane of their vtter ouerthrowe and when he saw their pertinacie and infidelitie to be such that his praier did not preuaile for them to be troubled and agonized in mind for their wofull and willfull destruction Christ praid for himselfe not for them But these learned Fathers tell you he praied not against his owne death simply but respecting them by whose hands it should come and whose eternall ruine it should be Your cup of hell paines which you dreame Christ then tasted to be too bitter and too violent for him is a false and fond conceit of yours hauing neither trueth sense nor likelihood in it and yet forsooth both Scriptures and fathers must giue place to your deuices and semblances This I speake if your assertion of Moses and Paul were admitted howbeit indeed you are not able to prooue one word of all that you affirme in this case You take certaine verie obscure and much questioned words of Moses and Paul for your ground-worke and at your pleasure without all proofe you build thereon a whole world of falshood and confusion Out of which and the like darke and doubtfull places because the most of your hellish doctrine is drawen I thinke it needfull to let the Reader see how far and what those wordes inferre which you so much striue to abuse When the children of Israel had made them a Calfe of golde and feasted and plaied Moses prayer for the people examined before it as the God that brought them out of Egypt the Lord was wroth and said to Moses i Deuter. 9. v. 13. I haue seene this people and beholde it is a stifnecked people k 14. let me alone that I may destroy them and put out their name from vnder heauen and I will make of thee a mightie nation and greater than they be For this sinne when Moses prayed that the whole nation might not be destroyed he sayd to God l Exod. 32. v. 31. This people hath sinned a great sinne m 32. And now if thou wilt take away their sinne and if not wipe me out of the Booke which thou hast written To whom God answered n Vers 33. Whosoeuer hath sinned against me I will put him out of my booke The first thing here to be considered is what God
without measure holy yet now at his death did not so expresly breake out and shew themselues as they did at diuers times before You receaue a iust reward of your error that whiles you labour to impugne the trueth your lucke is not to light on one true sentence to your purpose That extreame feare and sorrow were at all houres and seasons in him which yet were holy and righteous affections in Christ is a notable vntrueth and that they did not breake out so expresly in the garden as at diuers times before is another as false as the former and but that it is no newes in you to fasten on fancies a man would maruell to see so many falshoods couched so closely together Christes quiet and constant affections of pietie to God and mercy to men were alwaies in him but these were not at all houres and seasons painfull vnto him comming now to make What feare and sorrow Christ was to yeelâ—… to God when â—…e offered the ransome of our sinnes satisfaction for our sinnes as the head for the members and the Redeemer for his prisoners Christ was to yeeld vnto God as much feare of his iustice prouoked and sorrow for his holinesse displeased by our sinnes as his humane nature could admit without losse of those gifts or decay of those graces which the fulnesse of the holie Ghost had rooted and established in him Wherefore damnation and desperation excepted and all dubitation excluded as well of his person as of his function hee might yeeld to God for vs and as part of our ransome the lowest degree of submission and deepest impression of feare and sorrow that mans nature could feele without doubting or distrusting the fauour and goodnesse of God towards him or his Wherein he did not onely religiously giue vnto God that which was due vnto the holinesse and Iustice of God but he set vs a patterne how we should approch to God when we finde our selues loaden with sinne euen in all feare and trembling of so great power and maiestie and with inward griefe and groanes of heart for displeasing so admirable holinesse that we may receaue comfort from God when we doe not spare truely to acknowledge his goodnesse and earnestly to lament our owne wickednesse These verie painefull but yet very holy impressions of feare and sorrow with teares and sighes vnspeakeable Christ shewed and sanctified in his owne person as an acceptable sacrifice to God not for any blemish of his owne who was the cleane and vndefiled lambe of God but for our haynous and enormous sinnes the excesse whereof could neuer be matched or purged but by the infinite dignitie and humilitie of him that owing nothing paid all and forced to none of these freely offered his obedience to the honour and glorie of his father n Defenc. pâ—…g 98. li. 21. It standeth not with his piâ—…tie to wish that his strong and vehement affections of holinesse should passe from him or be weakned in him for my part I can see no sense nor sappe in these assertions You see sense and sappe in that which hath neither trueth proofe nor vse in the word of God and in the plaine principles of pietie so vnsauerie is your palate you finde no taste Those words Let this cuppe passe from me most men referre to the death of the crosse which Christ was after to suffer Will you thence inferre that the feare and sorrow which he felt in the garden before his apprehension were not grieuous because they were religious And what if Christ spake of the present impressions of feare and sorrow which he wished to be mitigated with comfort from God as they were within a while by the sending of an Angell from heauen did he therefore wish the holinesse of his obedience and humilitie to be changed because he praied the burden thereof might be eased o Psal. 51. Restore to me saith Dauid the ioy of thy saluation Doth that prooue Dauid praied against the godlinesse of sorrow for sinne because he would haue the sharpenesse of it turned into ioy no more is it consequent when Christ weakened himselfe with exceeding susception of feare and sorrow though both religious that he wished the holinesse of either might cease when he would haue the painefulnesse of either asâ—…waged A damned or desperate feare and sorrow you would better digest in the soule of Christ though Christian pietie doe detest it but a vehement affection of godly feare or sorrow you endure not because it hath no concurrence with your hell paines p Defenc. pag. 98. li. 24. Where you ascribe to this his deepe sorrow of zeale for mens sinnes his sweating bloud in his agonie aboue Nature after a strange and maruelous manner I dare say you deliuer strange maruailes in Diuinitie Christ sweating bloud if it were naturall I doe not ascribe to feare or sorrow but rather to vehement intention of prayer which the Euangelist mentioneth in that place if it were aboue nature as q 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 28 29. Hilarie Augustine Prosper Bede and Bernard doe thinke there can be no reason required of his voluntarie affections besides his will the cause whereof is secret to vs though some ancient writers coniecture at the significations of it But why it should not be maruelous haue you any reason for admit your owne conceite were true which as yet is no way iustifiable by the sacred Scriptures euer read you there that any man before or besides Christ had sweate like droppes of bloud falling from him for all their complaints Christs 〈◊〉 sweatâ—… was not onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 proper to Christ. as you pretend of hellish feare sorrowes and paines It must then be maruelous which no man else but onely Christ did euer performe whatsoeuer the cause thereof were and in your fansie most maruelous since you dreame that all the members of Christ suffer the like paines as due to mankind for sin and yet you can produce none of them that euer did sweate bloud but Christ alone And where you make the paines of hell to take hold of Christs Soule till the time of his death yet did he not after this shew any such thing but onely in the Garden How could it then be but maruelous that so violent a cause continuing and increasing as you imagine the effect which in your fansie was this bloudie sweate should cease and not appeare but when Christ would but whether of vs deliuereth strangest maruailes in Diuinitie you that hold the death of the damned and the true paines of hell were here inflicted on Christs Soule by Gods immediate hand and must likewise by your supposall on all Christes members or I that teach Christ as our head in the worke of our redemption for the satisfaction of our sin offered as much sacred feare of Gods power and inward sorrow for our displeasing the holinesse of God as mans nature without despairing or doubting was capable of let all the faithfull iudge and examine
agonie With this childish Art you haue almost waded by them not denying as indeede you cannot that they were then before Christs eyes when he feared and sorrowed in the Garden but that either they were no new things to him or else parts of his righteousnesse and holinesse Both which Answeres are very idle For your hell paines if that were part of his Passion were no more newes to his foresight then the rest and all Christs sufferings euen of your hell paines if that conceite had any truth in it were parts of his obedience and patience as well as his suffering of feare and sorrow or of bodily death Wherefore these be but straines and starts to make your Reader beleeue you haue somewhat to say when indeed your oppositions are so sleight that they bewray how gladly you would and how hardly you can distresse any of these causes which I said might concurre in Christs Agonie They all were weightie and godly respects impressing no small degrees of feare sorrow care and zeale on the Soule of Christ and directly pertinent to the worke of our redemption now in hand And where you shift them of as parts of Christs habituall holinesse alwaies resting in him know you good Sir that I speake not in this case of the permanent gifts of grace alwaies inherent in Christs Soule but of the painfull impressions which those respects did therefore now presently and sensiblie make on the Soule of Christ more then at other times because they came now to execution which before were but in cogitation by religious and humble praier he was now to settle the whole course force effects of his sufferings c Defenc. pag. 105. li. 10. Call you this greater perfection in him than in other men to pray expressely against the knowne will of his Father yea against his owne That Christ praied against the knowen will of his Father is an irreligious and dangerous dreame of yours This Toy you trump in euery where as if it were some choise Answere and yet this emptie reason maketh as much against you as against me if there were any waight in it For if Christ did suffer the paines of the damned according to your deuice was it not his Fathers knowen will he should so doe yea and his owne also How then doe the paines of hell excuse him from praying against his Fathers knowen will he was so amazed therewith you will say that he knew not what he did Christ must then be wholy depriued of all vnderstanding if he neither remembred his Fathers will nor his owne nor our saluation for whose sake he was content to suffer And how then came he so suddainly in the very next syllable to remember himselfe and his Fathers will He was now freed you will say from that astonishment How fell he then thrice into it he had so many touches of hell paines which must needs confound all the powers and parts of his body Then all the time of his apprehension examination condemnation and crucifixion he felt no such thing since the Gospels beare witnesse that he wisely religiously constantly carefully and euery way admirably behaued himselfe in eche word and deede after to the instant of his death and remembred all things that were written of him Is not here a fine mockerie which is the fortresse of all your hidden mysteries that to prooue your hell paines you must bring Christ into three such fits and pangs of confusion and obliuion that he knew not what he said or did presently with the speaking of YET to restore him againe to his perfect sense and memorie and so to free him from all your new deuised Passions besides your selues no writer old nor new did euer find in Christs prayer that he knew not what he said and the condition added before his prayer d Luke 22. Father if thou wilt take away this Cup from me and the submission following with the same breath yet not my will but thine be done doe plainely prooue that Christ had exact remembrance and regard of his fathers will besides that the Apostle affirmeth of this prayer that Christ e Heb. 5. was heard in that he feared So that if this be all the Scripture you can produce for your hell paines I protest before God and his whole Church I will sooner beleeue that you were out of your wits in writing this then that Christ was forgetfull in praying that which he spake in the Garden f Defenc. pag. 105. li. 10. Againe could this thing in any reason be such an horrible griefe vnto him to haue his flesh lie dead for a day and a few howers would the thought of this make him sweat bloud for griefe and to neede an Angell from heauen to comfort him and to pray three times vehemently this cup might passe from him verily it is vnreasonable to thinkeso Who hath bewitched you thus openly and vsually to fasten on vntrueths I alleaged six causes that might 〈◊〉 in Christes agonie you haue piked out of my wordes foure more then euer I ment to be reasons of his bloudie sweate and are nine of these now puft away with a breath and nothing left by your swelling and insulting eloquence but the deadnesse of Christs body whiles the soule wanted this it is for a man to trust to his tongue when his teeth be gone and to bleate when he cannot bite If the cause were not Gods it might be thought a pastime thus to faine and face but in so serious questions to vse such idle and false imputations and friuolous refutations is a griefe to any good mans eares and a corrosiue to his conscience Of Christes agony and the causes that might occasion his feare his sorow and his zeale in the garden I haue said so much that I am wearie with repeating though you be neuer weary with resuming the selfe same childish and erroneous mistaking The reason of my speach is plaine and euident howsoeuer you take the course rather to misreport it then refute it For if the soules of Gods saincts doe by nature vnwillingly leaue their bodies to which they are vnited though by them they are often molested and burdened otherwise death were no punishment of sinne but a signe of Gods far our which is nothing so how farre iuster cause then was there Christ should naturally dislike death not only because it was a subuersion of nature created quickned by God and an effect of Gods displeasure against sinne imposed on all men but also for that it should during the time depriue him of life sense and action with great slaunder and infamie and cheefely should exclude for a season his bodie from that blessed communion and fruition of his diuine grace and glorie which formerly it felt though the personall vnion should not be disâ—…olued now the more Christ liked and loued that adherence to God which he liuing enioied the more grieuous was the want thereof which death tooke from him for
that you name for a contradiction to this But the Scriptures are against it That were worth the hearing if you had any in store but if your ignorance be such that you bring the parts of Christs agonie for the causes thereof and your insolence such that you will pronounce what the Scriptures shall say or meane without any farder proofe you may soone make them contrarie to themselues as you doe in the maine matter and merit of our redemption by the death and bloud of 〈◊〉 That Christ in the Garden began to be afraid and said of himselfe he was on euery side sorrowfull and after comfort receaued by an Angell from heauen fell into an agonie of intentiue prayer in which his sweate was like drops of bloud this the Scriptures report What was the direct and particular cause of this feare and sorrow or for what after the vision of an Angell from heauen Christ prayed so earnestly that his sweate was like bloud this is the Question in this place Wherein like some late risen Apostle you take vpon you to decide what best sorteth with your error and proclaime that to be expresse Scripture But where doth the Scripture expresse that Christs feare sorrow and discomfort caused his Agonie If they were parts of his agonie as well as his bloudie sweate then must there be a cause as well of these as of the other and they caused not his bloudie sweate Now the cause of neither is directly mentioned in the Scriptures The Scripture Comfort by an Angell and intentiâ—…e prayer went before Christs bloudie sweate speaketh of Christs prostration and prayer of his triple Petition that the Cup might passe from him of his Disciples heauinesse and neglect to watch with him of their danger and tentation of the weaknesse of flesh as well as of his sorrow or feare Doth it therefore expresse these to be the causes of his agonie and how doth the Gospell declare discomfort to haue caused that agonie because it saith there appeared to him an Angell from heauen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 strengthning or comforting him the Angell was not able to inspire any spirituall strength into Christ that is proper to the spirit of God neither did the Angell performe the part of an honest neighbour to perswade Christ with words to be content and patient these kinds of strengthning and comforting are not tolerable in this place but by his message from God for he was Gods messenger comming from heauen he declared in all likelihoode that Christs prayers were heard in that he feared For so much the Apostle noteth of Christs prayers in the Garden which in all coherence was the comfort the Angell brought with him when he appeared to him in the Garden Now this comfort would rather asswage his sorrow and feare then increase it Yea how could any comfort brought by the Angel cause this agonie you dreame perhaps Christ would not receaue that comfort but notwithstanding the Angels comfortable message continued his former agonie or fell into a worse then before wherein he sweate bloud If your dreames be expresse Scripture then here is all the Scripture you haue euen your presuming besides the Scripture or rather against the Scripture For since the Euangelist affirmeth t Luke 22. an Angell from heauen that is from God appeared comforting him that is with a comfortable message to him in all reason his feare and sorrow did now cease and he fell vpon this comfort receaued as I thinke not repelled as you imagine to an agonie not of feare and sorrow much lesse of hell paines but of more vehement prayer then before and in that zealous and inflamed prayer in which he powred forth not onely the strength of his Soule but the very spirits of his body for desire to preuaile for man against sinne and satan his sweate was like bloud u Defenc. pag. 107. li 1. The words next before in the text are u Luk. 22. 43. 44. AN ANGEL CAME TO GIVE HIM SOME COMFORT that is lest he should be ouerwhelmed quite in his sorow discomfort but still he was in his agonic and sweat like drops of bloud trickling downe to the ground and presently sayth MY SOVLE IS FVLL OF SORROVVLS EVEN VNTO THE DEATH â— The Tempter in the wildernesse that sought by pretence of Gods power and protection to procure Christes ouerthrow had more regard not to be taken tardy with corrupting the Scriptures than you haue in this place for he cited the words as they lay without addition or interposition of his owne which you do not buttaking some parts of the text for a shew you most vntruly and most pestilently corrupt both the text and the trueth of the Gospell You cite out of S. Luke ca. 22. vers 43 44 these words in a different letter as the words in the text next before Christes bloudie sweat An Angell came to giue him some comfort c. Are these the Euangelists words Was your haste so great or your care so little that you could not or would not so much as looke in your booke for the right words of the text S. Luke sayeth x Luk. 22. v. 43 There appeared vnto him an Angell from heauen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 strengthening him or comforting him no doubt with a message from God which what it was we do not know except we applie the Apostles words to this purpose where he sayth Christ y Heb 5. v. 7. in the dayes of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did offer vp prayers and supplications with strong crying and teares to him that was able to saue him from death AND WAS HEARD IN THAT WHICH HE FEARED This if we take to be the comfort which the Angell brought from heauen the Apostle might well intend it For that Christes prayers were heard and so much declared to him by an Angell from heauen could not be but very comfortable to him If we list not to beleeue this was the Angels message of comfort then we must confesse that the comfort which the Angell brought is vnknowen to man as the certaine cause of Christes bloudie sweat But whatsoeuer we suppose of the Angels message there is some difference betwixt S. Lukes words and those which you cite as the words next before the text not in matter you will say I speake of the words which you may not alter when you professe to cite the text whatsoeuer the matter be You keepe the meaning of the Euangelist you thinke Such a meaning as you your selfe make of the Euangelist for you translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is strengthening him to giue him some comfort Where by the diminutiue some you would implie that it was not sufficient to remooue his feare and that intent you betray in the next line citing againe your owne words in stead of S. Lukes and apparently corrupting his text for comming to cite the 44 verse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and falling into an agonie he prayd more earnestly or intentiuely in stead
his owne most free and fore-determined will would he then so mournefully grieue and complaine thereat It hath no reason nor likelihood in it You runne your selfe out of breath and quite besides the way You shall not need to perswade me that Christ was resolued and willing to die I perfectly beleeue it and easily confesse it but how as he himselfe declared the spirit was willing the flesh was weake The minde of Christ apprehended and persued all these things which you mention but that excludeth not the naturall dislike which Gods will is all men should haue of death This imperfection of mans nature since it pleased Christ to taste as well as the rest of our infirmities and affections you may by no respects nor rewards make the weakenesse of Christes flesh to which he submitted himselfe the Weaknesse appered in Christs flesh but willingnesse in his spirit same or equall with the willingnesse of his spirit which had and shewed the abundance of all grace Wherefore I maintaine both in Christ a voluntarie sense of the weaknesse of our flesh and an heauenly strength of the inward man which expressed but ouerballanced the naturall desire of the outward man in Christ. And still you harpe on that one string which is vtterly out of tune that he would not do it So extreamly and So mournefully This extremitie is only your fansie for I say Christ did it meekely obediently and faithfully assuring himselfe that his Father who all this while had tried his patience would at his prayer not onely end his paine but make heauen and earth to witnesse what account God made of him though for a season he left him in their hands to be made a sacrifice for our sinnes u Defenc. pag. 111. li. 15. Lazarus when he was returned from the ioyes of heauen to take againe his rotten carcase yet he grieued not at it nor ought he so to haue done When you sincke in reasons you ascend to reuelations Who tolde you that the soule of Lazarus was in the ioyes of heauen when Christ raised his bodie from the graue Christ placeth the soule of the other Lazarus that died at the rich mans doore in Abrahams bosome to be comforted and doe you take vpon you to place this Lazarus that was brother to Marie and Martha in the very ioyes of heauen Where was his soule those foure dayes you will aske It is not for you to aske nor for me to answere The things after this life and out of this world it is not lawfull for me or you farder to enquire then the Scripture reuealeth That such as are raised from the dead should be able by experience to report the ioies of heauen or the paines of hell or the secrets of Gods kingdome is a thing not permitted by God as we find by Abrahams answeare to the rich man praying that Lazarus might be sent to his fathers house God hath places and Angels enough to keepe the soules of such as he meaneth shal be returned to this life though it be neither in hell nor in heauen From hell no man is released and from heauen no man is dismissed that hath once seene God face to face When x 1. Cor. 13. that which is perfect is come then that which is in part shall be abolished sayth the Apostle And will you aduenture to abolish perfection after it is come and to bring men backe to this mortall life that haue seene God in the fulnesse of his glory whom no man liuing can see depriuing them of that vision perfection and brightnesse which the ioyes of heauen haue in them It is an enterprise meet for such an encounterer as you are Paul liuing was taken vp into y 2. Cor. 〈◊〉 the third heauen euen into Paradise where he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which he might not vtter Was Paul then in the ioyes of heauen I trow not For he sayth Lest I should be exalted out of measure through the abundance of reuelations there was giuen vnto me a sting in the flesh euen the messenger of Satan to â—…uffit me If the abundance of reuelation would so exalt Paul when he was but taken vp into Paradise that he needed the messenger of Satan to humble him how would the ioyes of heauen and cleercnesse of Gods face beheld in his glory exalt men that should afterward liue againe in this wretched world And therefore this is like the rest euen a bolde assertion of things vnknowen whereas God wanteth no meanes nor places extraordinarie to detaine the soules of such as shall in his counsell returne to this life without knowing the secrets or possessing the ioyes of heauen z Defenc. pag. 111. li. 22. If your Fathers proue any thing towards your meaning it is this because that he complained of his bodily dying Howbeit they say not that he thus complained only and meerely The Defender 〈◊〉 the Fathers proue my meaning for that Neither do I thinke will you plainly holde this NEITHER DO VVE DENIE THE OTHER If the Fathers meaning be which you now consesse that Christ on the crosse complained because of his bodily dying then proue they as much as I produced them sor and your admitting this exposition of theirs sheweth that all this while you idlely sought to subuert their assertion with your strong allegation as you supposed to no purpose since now you denie it not And where you pretend they say not ONLY and meerely for that you come too late with your exception For since Christ made no complaint on the crosse but this My God my God why hast thou forsaken me if in that he complained because of his bodily dying as you do not denie then all proofe for your hell paines out of those words is quite excluded aswell by their opinion as by your owne confession And your making Christs complaint on the crosse to be a Pa. 111. li. 22 improbable yea vnlawfull conuinceth you by your owne mouth that within the compasse of fiue lines you are contrary to your selfe and charge Christ with vnlawfull mourning which amounteth to as much as sinfull As for mine opinion what respects Christ might haue in that complaint of his I haue before deliuered so that your so grieuing and so mourning only and meerely for that is but a sillie refuge when you can not otherwise resist the trueth b Defenc. pag. 111. li. 32. 28. These Fathers had no purpose here to exclude the suffering of Christes soule but only to denie that his Godhead suffered They stroue here with heretikes whose controuersies were farre from our question Indeed the heretikes against whom they wrote tooke great holde of these places on which you build your hell paines and because they were Heretikes alwayes vrged the same places whiâ—…h the Desender doth somewhat darke and doubtfull they stumbled many weake Christians with them euen as you doe Their purpose I know was to proue Christ no God in nature because he feared and sorowed in
de Trinitate li. 10. Derelinqui se ad mortem questus est sed TVNC confessorem suum secum in Regno Paradisi recepit Christ complained that he was forsaken or left vnto death but EVEN THEN he receiued the Thiefe that consessed him into the kingdome of Paradise iointly with himselfe Ambroses words are u Ambros in Luc. li. 10. de commendatione spiritus in 〈◊〉 Patris Clamauit homo diuinitatis sepâ—…ratione moriturus The man Christ cried not then dead in soule when he cried as you would haue it but ready to die or that after should die when he yeelded his spirit into his fathers hands The very next sentence before sheweth that this departing was of the diuinity from the body to leaue that vnto death x Ibidem Euidens manifestatio contestantis Dei secessionem diuinitatis corporis A manifest speach of God witnessing the departure of his diuinity from his bodie So that by no meanes Ambrose euer imagined that Christes soule died but as he expresseth himselfe in the same Chapter y Ibidem Caro moritur vt resurgat spiritus Patri commendatur vt pax fuerit in Caelo The flesh dieth that it might rise againe the spirit is commended to God the father that peace might be established in the heauens Thus shortly haue you taken the paines to produce three Fathers for the death of Christes soule and haue as shamefully peruerted and inuerted euery one of them which is no newes with you and yet all that you can conclude out of them may amount to a pestilent heresie if you will that the vnion of Christes person was dissolued for the time of his death but it can neuer inferre any thing pertinent to your purpose z Defenc. pag. 113. li. 4. Here the Fathers do sâ—…ew indeed that Christ died but more than a meere bodily death euen the death of the soule also Heere the Fathers are exquisitly belied and falsified otherwise that Christes soule died they offer neither word nor syllable sounding that way And though you can not speake trueth in so false a cause yet you should learne to speâ—…ke coherently You grant they auouch here that Christ died the death of the bodie and more euen the death of the soule also whereas it is euident by the words of the holy ghost as also by your owne positions that Christ neither did nor could die these two deaths at one time For by the manifest witnesse of the Euangelist Christ a Luc. 22. 〈◊〉 his spirit into his Fathers 〈◊〉 and so died Then most certeinly the soule of Christ was accepted and receiued into the hands of God which I trow is life and not death when the bodie was left to death Wherefore if their words concerne his bodily death they by no meanes admix the death of the soule since they all affirme aâ—… the Scripture doth that Christ committed his soule to his Fathers hands and so died of which death they say he spake in those words Why hast thou left me that is to die as they expound it Now if you affixe any death to the soule of Christ I hope you will free him from it before he commended his soule into his Fathers hands And so the one must be ended before the other could enter and consequently if they spake of the latter their words haue no intent to implie the other But what dispute we of their meaning when their words are so manifest that you can not hale them to your hell-paines but by shamefull corrupting of their sentences and wilfull misconstruing the bodie for the soule b Defenc. pag. 113. li. 6. What is the separation of the deitie from his soule els but the death of his soule Which of these Fathers doth auouch the separation of Christes deitie from his soule Is it so small a mote in your eye that Christes deitie was separated from his humane soule that you may loosely and lightly surmise it by disordering and altering other mens words At this speech of Ambrose you could not so grosly haue stumbled had you but read the Master of the Sentences who long since in one whole distinction of his third booke examined those words and answered as the trueth is that separation in that place was taken for want of protection and withholding Christes power whiles the bodie died c Sententiarum li. 3. dist 21. Separauit se 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 subtraxu protectionem Separauit se foris vt non esset ad defensionem sed non 〈◊〉 defuit ad vnionem Si non ibi cohibuisset potentiam sedexercuisset non 〈◊〉 Christus The deitie seuered it selfe because it withdrew protection It separated it selfe outwardly not to defend but if failed not inwardly to continue the vnion If it had not refrained but exercised power Christ could not haue died Theodoret calleth this dereliction d In Psal. 21. The permission of the deitie that the humanitie might suffer And Isychius sayth e 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 li. 5. ca. 16. Diuinit as abijsse dicitur cohibens propriam virtutem ex humanitate vt daret spacium Passioni Christs deitie is sayd to depart by withholding his owne power from his humanitie that he might giue time to his Passion Otherwise it is a certaine truth which â—…ulgentius teacheth f Ad 〈◊〉 lib. 3. Licet in Christi morte carnem morieâ—…tem fuisset anima desertura diuinit as tamen Christi nec ab anima nec à carne posset separari suscepta Though in Christes death the soule were to forsake the bodie dying yet the deitie of Christ could not be seuered from the soule nor from the bodie once assumed g Defenc. pag. 113. li. 7. Howbeit note I pray that neither the Fathers nor I do meane any separating of the vnion of both natures in Christ nor the separating of any holinesse or habituall grace of God from his soule nor the separating of Gods loue from him but the separation of all comfortable feeling and assistance of the Godhead This separation is meant and may be called the death of the soule If you separate none of these what then is it that you separate from the soule of Christ to proue it dead All comfortable feeling and assistance of the Godhead He knew himselfe to be personally God and man he saw his soule full of all truth and grace he was assured the loue of God towards him could neither faile nor change he knew that his obedience and sacrifice were acceptable to his Father and should be the redemption of the world and he was most certaine that the third day he should rise againe into immortall and celestiall glory hauing men diuels and angels euen all things in heauen and earth subiect to his manhood Were all these no comforts or was there no assistance of the Godhead in these Nay take but your owne words a little before that Christ on the crosse euen when he complained of his forsaking was in h Pag.
110. li. 28. exceeding generall and constant ioy and had as Dauid foreprophesied of him i 34. constant and continuall ioy in God was there no feeling of all this triumph and ioy so exceeding constant and continuall May a man be so franticke as to confesse that Christ felt all this and yet to say he had no comfortable feeling This may be called the death of the soule To him that calleth light darknesse good euill faith feare ioy discomfort this may seeme death which by all the rules of the sacred Scriptures is called the life of the soule heere on earth but by no man that vnderstandeth or careth what he sayth can this be called or defended to be the death of the soule k Defenc. pag. 113. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 As it is life to the soule to feele and to enioy the glory of God Psal 16. 21. so it is death to feele the want and absence thereof vtterly Hauing abused the Fathers at your pleasure you offer now the like if not worse to the Scriptures The sixteenth Psalme vers 11 not 21 as you quote it sheweth vs that there is a way to life reuealed here on earth but the fulnesse of ioy is in Gods presence when we shall behold his face as the Angels doe in heauen The way to life is grace wherewith Christ was replenished from his mothers wombe and in greater measure then all his members For he had the fullnesse thereof in this life where the perfectest men haue but a measure thereof and we l Iohn 1. all haue receaued of his fulnesse The plenty of pleasure which is at Gods right hand is euerlasting glory both of soule and body into which Christ entred after his Resurrection How doth this prooue that Christs soule was dead during the time of his Paâ—…sion if a man would seeke out a place to confirme the contrarie he cannot light on a better For these words pertaining directly to Christ on the crosse conclude that euen in the midst of his sufferings m Psal 16. v. 11 the waies of life were made knowen to him by God and that after his rising againe God would Replenish him with the ioy of his countenance which was euerlasting glory in the heauens The one he possessed the other was promised more then which the soule of man cannot enioy in this life Now except this be your rage rather then your reason that all mens soules are dead till they come to behold God face to face in the heauens I see not what you can hence collect touching the death of Christs soule The contrarie may be soundly concluded out of this place For the wayes of life were made knowen to him here on earth and by him to all men liuing since he prosessed himselfe to be the n Iohn 14. Way and the Truth and the Life and the promises of God to him as farre exceeded all honour and glory reserued for men as it was possible for the head to excell his members o Defenc pag. 113 li. 1â—… This heauenly life Christ tasted a while in his transsiguration this death he felt besides his bodily death on the Crosse. If Christ neuer tasted an heauenly life but in his transfiguration then all the time of his conuersing heere on earth he felt your hellish death and not in his passion only but what madnesse is this to affirme either of Christ or of his members that their soules are dead till they come to behold Gods face in the glory of his Kingdome If these be your best proofes for the death of Christs soule 〈◊〉 heed you be not estrâ—…nged from the life of God through the ignorant wilfullnesse or your heart that thus confound heauen and earth life and death to maintaine your fansies against both Fathers and Scriptures But of the death of Christs soule we shall haue better occasion afterward to speake when we come to handle it at large where I will by Gods grace let the Reader see how resolutely and absolutely the Fathers ioyning with the Scriptures repell the death of Christs soule as a pestilent point of false doctrine vnlesse we take it as a figuratiue kind of speach which is nothing to the principles of our faith nor to the true price of our Redemption since we must not conuert the truth of Christ to figures and phrases p Defenc pag. 11. li 〈◊〉 Your fourth exposition for any thing I see may be granted for it seemeth to be the same in effect that we hold If the fourth exposition be granted then two of your chiefe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on the 〈◊〉 grounds on which you raise your hell paines suffered in the soule of Christ vtterly sincke For then Christ spake these words of his members not of his owne person and it was no such dolefull and vncomfortable mourning and 〈◊〉 his owne soule as you suppose but a praier full of power fauour and grace whereby the sonne of God auerted from vs the separation that was betwixt God vs and made peace in heauen and earth reconciling man to God that before was forsaken of him q Pag. 113 li. 2â—… Was it remooued from vs then surely it was laid on some body els Now that must needes be vpon himselfe You fall to rouing in steed of reasoning Euerlasting death and hell fire it selfe were remooued from vs. On whom then were they laid Desperation confusion reiection were likewise remooued from vs. Were they therefore laid on Christ 〈◊〉 of sinne and corruption in the graue shal be likewise remooued from vs. Were these also laid on Christes person or did he suffer the very same that we should keepe such reasons for your hellish mysteries they haue no force in true religion nor I think with any sober or well aduised reasoner The punishments of this life imposed on all mankind Christ suffered for vs and by them freed vs from euerlasting damnation and destruction which were the due wages of our sinnes He therefore paied a price for vs which was the shedding of his bloud vnto death on the Crosse and by that ransomed vs from the captiuitie and miserie that otherwise were appointed for sinne r Defenc. pag. 113. li. 30. Where you obiect Athanasius that he could not be forsaken of his Father who was alwaies in his Father it is meerely wrested Athanasius speaketh against Arius also that Christs deity could not be for saken of his Father and so was not inferiour to his Father What talke you of wresting that neuer yet conceaued any Fathers words rightly no more then you doe that of Athanasius which I brought You catch at a piece and runne your way as though you were cleerely acquited but returne to the text and looke on the rest with shame enough Who was he that spake those words Why hast thou forsaken me I trust he was the sonne of God though now incarnate who before his incarnation was equall with his father in the forme of God Els Peter was
not proue them to be either irreligious or vtterly comfortlesse since b Heb. 12. for the ioy that was set before him he endured the crosse and despised the shame and c Reuel 3. ouercomming sitteth with his Father in his throne By which confession of our Sauiours we must learne that he vsed no power to repell or rebate his paines but that he had as sensible and tender feeling of all his sufferings in the weaknesse of his flesh which he with obedience and patience subiected to that burden as any man could haue and rather more in that he willingly layd aside his strength whiles he suffered for sinne d Defenc. pag. 115. li. 21. You do very ill to make these parts of Christs holinesse proper parts of his satisfaction and the maine causes of his agonie and complaint And woorse you doe if you ascribe them not to any paines in him at all And what doe you to acknowledge no cause in Christ of his complaint or agonie neither religious nor naturall but only the paines of hell and to seuer the inward sacrifice of an afflicted spirit from the outward sacrifice of his bodie for the purgation of our sinnes since he wanted in no point that was required or accepted of God but yeelded that to him which was due from vs in farre more excellent and perfect maner than we can comprehend It is therefore voluntary blindnesse and deafenesse in you to shut eyes and eares at all sorts of religious sorowes and feares when you reade that Christ feared and sorowed in the Garden and so to pitch on the paines of the damned which haue no witnesse in holy writ that nothing can remoue you or content you but your owne conceit e Defenc. pag. 115. li. 25. Secondly the summe of these fore-noted texts must be considered namely that Christ expresly wished sundry times in his dreadfull astonishment suddenly euen against Gods knowen will in one respect and here are expressed with his strange astonishment his mightie sorowes and feare of them partly felt and partly further to come After a large promise of cleere proofs and expresse Scriptures for so great and weighty matters as these are you trole out your owne false and absurd conceits no way gathered from the Scriptures but violently vrged on them with more rage than reason and now so often refuted that a man would be wearic if not ashamed to spend so much time in these idle repetitions of the selfe-same misapprehensions and misconstructions of some words of the Euangelist The summe of all these fore-noted texts is that the Euangelists say Christ professed his soule was heauie vnto death that the Apostle addeth he was heard in that he feared that himselfe on the crosse sayd My God my God why hast thou forsaken me All these places are already handled and cleered and no paines of the damned or of the second death found any thing neere to any of these words What meaneth then this importunitie to obtrude them againe as fresh and new proofes without any farder paines bestowed on them then barâ—…ly the repâ—…ating of only two poisened rootes you haue added to them out of your owne store the one is the dreadfull and strange astonishment during all the time of Christs praier in the Garden the other is the sundry suddaine wishes of Christ in that astonishment euen against Gods knowen will which things as your maner is you proue by your owne authority painting them out with dreadfull strange and mighty words when your proofes be weake and childish That Christ praied suddainly and sundry times against the knowen will of God is a false and wicked position and as directly repugnant to the Scriptures as any thing may be Saint Luke saith his praier was f Luc. 22. v. 42 Father if thou wilt take away this cup from me And the Apostle saith he was heard in that he feared So that not only you auouch this thing against expresse Scripture but you bring the sonne of God within the compasse of vnaduised and faithlesse praiers which you excuse with as false and lewd a deuice because he was past sense and memory what he did whereas he well remembred mentioned and reserued his fathers will in his praiers and warned his Apostles to g Matth. 26. watch and pray that they entred not into temptation and constantly continued his praiers till he was h Luc. 22. comforted by an Angell from heauen and i Heb. 5. heard in that he â—…eared As for his astonishment neither doe the words vsed by the Euangelist Saint Mark import any such strange and dreadsull want of sense and memory as you imagine neither doe the consequents declare any such continuance as you pretend but in both these you prescribe your owne will ro be the rule of your faith First the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth either admiration alone or â—…ls a mixtion thereof with some feare vpon any suddaine or strange sight When the Creeple that lay at the beautyfull gate of the temple asking almes was healed by Peter and Iohn the people seeing him walking and leaping and praising God were filled with admiration and astonishment and flocked to Salomons porch 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 euèn amazed This affection in them Peter expresseth in the next verse after this sort k Acts 3. v. 12. Ye men of Israell saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 why wonder you at this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or why looke you so steadfastly on vs so that stedfast beholding and inward admiring are the force of this word in that place When Christ returned from the mountaine where he was transfigured to his nine Disciples that were disputing with the Scribes l Mar. 9. v. 15. All the people as soone as they saw him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were amazed and came to him and saluted him In neither of these places can we imagine the people were stroken with such great feare that should take their senses from them and in this last it is expressely written they ranne and saluted him which argueth that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 importeth a sudden admiration sometimes without feare and sometimes permixed with feare for the sight of some strange or vnknowen thing So the people when they saw him cast out vncleane spirits with his word m Mar. 1. v. 27. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were all amazed and asked one of another What thing is this What new doctrine is this And the women that went earely to Christes sepulchre and n Mar. 16. v. 5. saw a yong man sitting clothed in a long white robe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they were afrayd and he sayd to them o 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Be not afraid In none of which places the word signifieth any hellish paine or confusion but either admiration or such sudden feare ioyned with some wondering as a strange or vnknowen sight breedeth though we feare no hurt towards our selues And of these very
houre and this cup might passe from him That which this houre and this cup doe signifie the same is the proper and principall cause of this agonie but what can be ment by this houre vnlesse the paines of his suffering set and appointed by God for him to be are at his determined time from Gods iustice for sinne What is this cup but the bitter taste of the same paines aforsaid this I hope was not his holinesse and sanctification which so troubled and molested him nor his piety nor his pity If you permit our Sauiour to be the interpreter of his owne wordes as he was the speaker then neither this hower nor this cup import any thing suffered in the garden After his agony past and praiers ended in the garden Christ said to his Disciples b Sleepe henceforth and take your rest behold THE HOWER draweth neere and the Sonne of man is giuen into the hands of sinners And so to the Iewes that came to approhend him c 〈◊〉 this is your very hower and the power of darknesse And when Peter would with force haue defended him he said d 〈◊〉 Put vp thy sword into thy sheath shall I not drinke of the cup which my Father hath giuen mee So that this â—…ower and this cup were to come when his agony was ended and were they not why may not this howre and this cup conteine in them as well his painfull affections oâ—… sorow and feare as his other sufferings Was not the Cuppe mixed that he dranke and the houre long enough to comprise all that he suffered But what maketh either of those for your hell paines Was there no Cuppe for him to drinke nor time for him to suffer except your hellish torments were interposed His sufferings then are confessed though no feare nor sorow might besiege him but such as was ioyned with obedience and patience and in the midst of his afflictions he neither neglected submission to God nor compassion to men You with the one would exclude the other and I see no words nor cause but both might be ioyned in one houre and one Cup whatsoeuer you pretend to the contrary e Defenc. pag. 110. li. 23. Nay finally he himselfe expresseth the true cause euen his excessiue paines his ouerabounding sorowes and anguish saying My soule is full of paines or full of sorowes euen vnto death Heere he nameth the cause You are a man of much intelligence that out of Christs words would conclude his sorow to be the cause of it selfe For where by Christs agonie if it be largely taken you must meane his feare and his sorow confessed in that speach My soule is heauy or sorowfull vnto death You make no more adoe but auouch that Christ here nameth sorow to be the cause of his agony that is of his sorow For if by his agony you meane his bloudy sweat from these words to that part of his action in the garden you shall neuer make any consequent The Euangelist expressely saith There appeared an Angel from heauen comforting him and then falling into an agonie he praied more earnestly and in that vehement praier his sweat was like drops of bloud He was comforted before this last praier and therein rather with the intention of spirits for zeale then with the remission of them for feare he did sweat as the Scripture noteth Now whereof receaued he comfort but of his sorow and what is comfort but a depulsion or mitigation of sorow what sense then can it haue to say that after Christs sorow was eased and comforted from heauen his sorow decreasing his agony of sorow so much encreased that he sweat bloud for very sorow how hang these contraries together which you would hale out of Christs owne words In the former part of his action in the garden wherein he praied the cup might passe from him he said his soule was heauy or sorowfull vnto death We enquire the cause of this sorow You answere that Christs owne words expresse and name sorow to be the cause therof What is this but to collude with Christs words in making his sorow to be the cause of his sorow which in a more generall and confused word you call his agonie but with vs the cause of his sorow is in question to that you neither can nor doe say any thing out of Christes words out of your owne conceit you presume that Christs f Pa. 116. li. 31. excessiue paines then felt and the intire want of feeling of Gods comfort and nothing els was the proper and principall cause of that sorow But these be your additions and expositions they be no part of Christs words nor meaning And by what authority to aduantage your error doe you not only contrâ—…le the translation vsed by all the Latin Fathers Tertullian Cyprian Hilarius â—…erom Ambrose Austen Fulgentius Bede and others but euen corrupt the words of our Sauiour rendered by the Euangelists Matthew and Marke Tristis est enima mea vsque ad mortem My soule is heauie sadde or sorowfull vnto death say all the Latine Fathers saue Tertullian who sayth g Tertullian de carne Christi Anxia est anima mea vsque ad mortem My soule is 〈◊〉 vnto death The Euangelists words are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 My soule is heauie or on euery side heauy and sorowfull vnto death You translate it h Pa. 116. li. 25. My soule is full of paines meaning by paines present inherent and absolute paines such as your hell-paines are where the words import no such thing for neither tristitia in Latine nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greeke either in prophane or diuine Writers note any such actuall and absolute impression of paine as you would haue but an affection troubling the minde and rising vpon opinion of euill past or instant Of sorow Saint Austen sayth right well i Auâ—…ust in Psal 42. Dolor animae tristitia dicitur molestia quae fit in corpore Dolor dici potest tristitia non potest The griefe of the soule is called heauinesse or sorow the griefe of the bodie is called paine not sorrow 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greeke with prophane Writers is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which Cicero translateth k Tuscul. quaest libro 4. Opinio recens mali praesentis A fresh opinion of present or instaâ—…t euill The Scriptures in like sort vse the same word opposing it to the affection of ioy and expressing by it not any actuall or absolute paine but griefe and sadnesse of minde which wee call sorow l Ioh. â—…6 v. 20. The world shall reioyce and you shall be sorrowfull 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but your SOROVV shall be turned to ioy So Paul m 2. Cor. 2. I would not come againe to you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in heauinesse for if I made you sorâ—… who is he that should make me glâ—…d but the same that was made SORY by me And this very thing I wrote vnto you lest
indeed reueale some reall tast of his heauenly ioies to his children euen in this life I haue already shewed but am not answeared You slide from some blessed men to all the children of God to whom you affirme God doth reueale indeed some reall tast of his heauenly ioies euen in this life What you meane by a reall tast we must learne from your owne mouth by such doubtfull phrases which you may after wrangle about you vse to deliuer your doctrine If you meane ioy in the holy Ghost whiles by hope we expect the promises of God at his determined time that indeed is common to all the children of God in their measure but that teacheth a maine difference betwixt the things heere enioined and reserued for vs in heauen and quite crosseth the new heauen which you would establish For we learne by the Scriptures that our z Coloss. 3. Life is hid in Christ and when Christ who is our life shall appeare then shall we also appeare with him in glory a 1 Iohn 3. Now we are the sonnes of God but yet it doth not appeare what we shal be and we know that when he shall appeare we shal be like him for we shall see him as he is Our knowledge loue and ioy of God and in God beginne heere by the preaching of the Gospell and the working of his spirit but the Scripture neuer calleth those the ioies of ueauen though they shall there continue yet so augmented and accompanied with heauenly brightnesse and glory that they shall not be the same they were For as our naturall vnderstanding and sense and corporall life and flesh shall not be abolished in heauen but abide and be glorified and yet no man is so senselesse as to thinke or say the glory of our creation is the glory of our resurrection so our knowledge loue and ioy which heere are weake and wanting all perfection as being mixed with ignorance and error lust and vnlawfull desires feare and griefe and often obscured and almost ouerwhelmed with infirmity iniquity and misery no wise man will defend to be the ioies of Gods heauenly kingdome where is no want nor defect of any good nor feare nor doubt of any euill inward or outward but as God shall then be all in all so shall we be filled with the sight and fruition of God our loue and ioy increasing according to our knowledge which then shal be the manifest vision of God face to face who is the vnceasing and vnsearchable fountaine of all goodnesse and blessednesse The b Treatis pa. 80 proofe on which you stand as yet not answered is a place of the Apostle to the Corinths applied by many men to the preaching of the Gospel then it maketh nothing for your purpose but if it be referred to the ioyes of heauen as you would haue it it maketh quite against you For c 1. Cor. 2. eye hath not seene saith the Apostle neither eare hath heard neither hath mans heart conceaued the things which God hath prepared for them that loue him If those be the ioyes of heauen which the Apostle there meaneth then is it euident that men are not capable of them whiles they are compassed with sinne and infirmitie but God hath reserued them in the heauens for vs when we shall come to his presence though in the meane time d 1. 2. he hath reuealed to vs by his spirit that such things are kept in store for vs which then shall appeare that is be apparently and perfectly bestowed on vs and we euerlastingly inuested with them The Reuelation which the Apostle here speaketh of is the reuelation of knowledge whereby these things are promised and assured vnto vs not the reuelation of glory whereby we shall see that which we now hope for and enioy that which we now expect This doctrine howsoeuer you would delude it with your reall tasts is plainely deliuered in the Scriptures When Moses besought God to shew him his glory God answered e Exod. 33. ver 20. Thou CANST NOT SEE my face and liue for there shall no man see mee and liue Where God doth not meane that men shall not see him in heauen when they come to be f Matth. 22. as the Angels of God who g Mat. 18. v. 10. alwayes behold the face of God in heauen his owne sonne hath sayd h Matt 5. blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God and his Apostle likewise i 2. Cor. 13. Now we see through a glasse darkely then shall we see face to face But he meaneth that no man liuing in this mortall flesh can see his face Otherwise it is the cleere resolution of the Scriptures that we k 1. Iohn 3. shall see him as he is that is not by faith as now we doe nor by some created shew of his glory as Moses Elias Esai and other the Prophets and Patriarkes did see him for the confirmation of their callings or consolation of their miseries but as the Apostle speaketh face to face Vpon these words of S. Iohn we shall see him as he is S. Austen learnedly and truely sayth l August in 〈◊〉 Iohan. Tract 101. Ista visio non est huius vitae sed futurae non temporalis sed aeterna Hunc totius laboris sui fructum Ecclesia nunc parturit desiderando tunc paritura cernendo This vision of God as he is is not in this life but in the life to come not temporall but eternall This fruite of her whole labour the Church now trauelleth with by desiring it but then shall attaine by beholding it Now if the sight of God himselfe face to face that is of his substance and glory in plaine full and perfect manner and measure be the same with the darke and enigmaticall beholding his graces and promises by the glasse of faith then haue you some reason to say the ioyes of heauen may be had in this life but if in the manner measure obiects and effects of our sight of God in this life and the next there be so great difference then you deceiue both your selfe and your Reader to affirme we haue the ioyes of heauen heere in this life when not onely our sinne our ignorance our miserie mutabilitie and mortalitie but euen our faith and hope do clearely prooue that we haue not that which we desire nor as yet enioy that which we expect and beleeue wee shall haue m August epist. 112. Non corda munda suae substantiae contemplatione fraudauit cum haec magna summa merces Deum colentibus diligentibus promittatur dicente ipso Domino quando corporalibus oculis visibiliter apparebat inuisibilem se contuenaū mundis cordibus promittebat qui diligit me diligitur a Patre meo ego diligam eum ostendā meipsum illi God hath not defrauded cleane harts of the sight of his substance since that is promised to those which serue
began to be afrayd and so doth the Geneuian translation of the Bible into English He began to be afraid and in great heauinesse Others more indifferent I shall not neede to repeate You take a course by your selfe that as you differ from all men in opinion so you will in translation of the words For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you will haue to be c Defenc. pag. 123. astonished with feare though the rest content themselues to say he began to be afraid d Defenc. pag. 127. li. 6. The Text following doth inuincibly shew that he did fully come to the extreamitie of astonishment and began not onely For did he but begin when he swet clotted bloud trickling from his body to the ground also when an Angell was sent from heauen to refresh him and comfort him did he then but begin to be heauy Your fansies follow so fast without the Text that they run headlong against the Text. That Christ was afraid I doe not deny that he came to the extremitie of astonishment the Scriptures denie howsoeuer you whiske it after your whifling maner that you may seeme a man tried in all toyes The extremitie of astonishment is neither to do nor speake any thing but to be silent and as it were without sense as I haue formerly shewed Your selfe doth so describe it for you say Christ was astonished that is ouerwhelmed and all confounded in all the powers of his soule and senses of his bodie A man in this case hath no right vse of reason vnderstanding memory speach sight or hearing for the time Was Christ so doe your impertinent pushes prooue any such thing doe they not rather prooue the contrary did not Christ speake when he praied did he not rebuke his Disciples for their sleepinesse and admonish them to watch and pray that they entered not into temptation did he not fall to more earnest and vehement praier when his sweat beganne to looke like bloud which you in your learned conceit call clotted bloud The strong cries and teares which you mention doe they not plainly reprooue your supposed astonishment and cleerely confirme that Christ had all the powers of his soule and senses of his body in their full vse when he thus conuerted them with such zeale and contention of mind to this great worke of our redemption what Sadler or Shoemaker would conclude this to be the fulnesse of astonishment which by so manifest circumstances cited by your selfe is irrefragablely refuted and on you run as if you would ouerbeare all the world with such witles words and flaunting follies which only serue to bewray the weakenesse of your owne conceites Feare and sorow I admit in the soule of Christ and religious of either kind in the highest degree that mans nature is capable of A naturall feare of death in the flesh of Christ I likewise acknowledge but I make not these things which you meane the effects thereof What I receiue and what I refuse in our Sauiours agonie I haue so largely deliuered that I must not spend paper to repeate all againe Neither doth Ierom meane that Christ had a touch of feare and no farder as you most fondly misconster him and his wordes where he saith Christ began to be afraid but he meaneth Christ so farre admitted the pearcing and painefull affection of feare for a time required in so great a cause that it neither possessed him wholy nor continually to beare dominion ouer him or to worke any corruption in him which is vsuall in our affections You make your selfe merie with the beginning and neuer consider that Ierom thereby excludeth the heigth of our inordinate affections of feare and sorow such as you bring in when you all confound Christ in his whole humanitie both in all the powers of his soule and senses of his bodie E Defenc. pag. 127. li 33. As for Ierom if he denie this I must craue leaue to dissent from him And from you if you affirme that all wise and Christian Readers must dissent without your leaue For it is not onely false and directly repugnant to the text but it is extremely wicked and impious to bring that confusion which you mention and forgetfulnesse into all the powers of Christs soule and senses of his body f Ibid. li. 27. I thinke all to little sufficiently to expresse our Lords sufferings for vs. You must then thinke the doctrine pen of the holy Ghost to be most vnsufficient that continually clearely proposeth the sufferings of the son of God for our saluation without any such presumptuous and irreligious speaches And howsoeuer you commend your deuotion in g Ibid. li. 31. labouring to shew how Christ loued vs and to what basenesse of our nature he submitted himselfe for our sake learne first to content your selfe with that which the wisedome and iustice of God required of his sonnes humane nature and the trueth of God witnesseth in the Scriptures and so shall you honour the sufferings of Christ as you ought to doe and not deuise new helles and new damnations for him to please your violent fansiâ—…s And as new is your deuotion as strange if the whole Church of Christ before your time neâ—…er knew nor heard how Christ loued his and to what he submitted himselfe for their sakes but haue all this while erred in beleeuing following the direction of Gods spirit in the word of trueth and life since they wanted all knowledge of your hellish torments and confusion which you haue lately inuented for the soule of Christ as the more principall part of our redemption and without which the death of the Crosse to which he was obedient was nothing worth h Defenc. pag. 127. li. 38. Nay God forbid we should reioyce in any thing so much neither can we praise and magnifie him for any thing so highly as we may and ought for this extreme abasing of Christ for vs. There was neuer no hereticke that could not cast a shew of pietie vpon his erroneous pretences Satan doth transforme himselfe into an Angel of light and falshood alwayes seeketh to put on the vizard of trueth Is it not thankes worthie that the sonne of God would leaue the vse and honour of his diuine glory wherein hce was equall to his Father and take vnto him the shape of a seruant with all the basenesse and weaknesse of our flesh and with the shame and paine of his death on the crosse make satisfaction for our sinnes and by his blood redeeme vs to God which is the emptying of himselfe expressed by the Apostle in the place abused and misapplied by you but you must teach all this is skant worth thankes if Christ did not suffer in soule the second death which is the lake burning with fire and brimstone and euen the very paines of the damned that you might be indeede beholding vnto him And what if another as wise as you will say that all which Christ suffered heere on earth was
after openly proclaime That Dauid was not ascended into heauen If it be so firme a promise as you pretend then Dauid as well as the rest must locally accompanie Christ whithersoeuer he went and consequently ascend to heauen with him which Peter vtterly denieth And all the Fathers of Christs church had little vnderstanding of Christs words when they generally denied that the soules of the Saints are yet in the same place of glory where Christ is If you beleeâ—…e not my report of them peruse their owne words following Irenaeus It is manifest that the soules of Christs Disciples shall goe to an inuisible place appointed them of God and there shall remaine vntill the resurrection and after receauing their bodies and rising perfectly that is corporally as Christ did rise shall so come to the sight or vision of God Iustine the martyr The soules of the righteous are caried to Paradise where they inioy the company and sight of Angels and Archangels and the vision of Christ our Sauiour and are kept in places fitte for them till the day of resurrection and recompensation Tertullian It is apparent to any wise man that there is a place determined which is Abrahams bosome for the receauing of the soules of his sonnes That region I meane Abrahams bosome though not heauenly sublimiorem tamen inferis yet higher then the places below shall giue comfort to the soules of the righteous vntill the end of things with the fulnesse of reward bring the resurrection of all men Heauen is open to no man so long as the earth remaineth together with the passing away of the world shall the kingdom of heauen be opened Origen The Saints departing hence do not presently obtaine the full rewards of their labours but they expect vs though staying though slacking For they haue not perfect ioy so long as they grieue at our errors and lament our sins For these saith Paul haue not yet receaued the promise God prouiding for vs a better thing that they without vs should not be perfect Hilarie The day of iudgement is the repay of euerlasting happinesse or punishment But the time of death till then hath euery one vnder his lawes whiles either Abraham or torment reserue ech man vnto iudgement Ambrose Till the fulnesse of time come the soules departed expect their due reward for some paine for some glory is prouided Chrysostom Though the soule were a thousand times immortall as she is those admirable good things she shall not enioy without her flesh If the body rise not againe the soule remaineth vncrowned and without that heauenly blisse Augustine After this short life thou shalt not as yet be where the Saints shal be to whom it shal be said Come ye blessed of my Father receaue the Kingdome prepared for you from the beginning of the world thâ—… shalt not as yet be there who knoweth it not but thou maiest be there where the poore Lazar was seene afarre of by the proud rich man In that rest shalt thou securely expect the day of iudgement when thou shalt receaue thy body and be changed to be equall to an Angel Theodoret The Saints haue not yet receaued their crownes For the God of all expecteth the conflicts of others that the race being ended he may together pronounce all that overcame to be conquerers and so reward them Oecumenius All the fore said Saints haue not yet receaued the good things promised to the iust God prouiding better for vs. Least they should haue more then we in that they were crowned before vs he hath therefore appointed one certaine time that we should be crowned with them Andreas Caesariensis It is the iudgement of many godly fathers that euery good man after this life hath a place â—…itte for him by which he may coniecture the glory prepared for him Theophylact. The Saints as yet haue attained nothing of the heauenly promises God hath appointed one time to crowne all Bernard you perceaue there are three states of the soule the first in this corruptible body the second without the body the third in perfect blessednesse The first in the Tabernacles the second in the Courts the third in the house of God Into that most happy house of God the soules of the Saints shall not enter without vs nor without their bodies Neither doe I find any Scriptures that allow the Saints deceased the same place of glory where Christ now is at the right hand of God in the highest heauens till the last day come What Abrahams bosome is whither Lazarus soule was caried by the Angels or where it is I dare not define Only the Scripture faith it was a place of comfort after death and vpvvards farre of from Hell a great gulfe being set betweene that and hell Of Paradise where Christ promised the penitent Thiefe should be with him the very day that he died I read what Paul writeth how he was taken vp into the third heauen and into Paradise Whence we may rightly collect that Paradise is in the third heauen Now what number of heauens the Scripture deliuereth is not so certaine as some men suppose We find the whole region of the aire to be called Heauen as where Christ nameth the byrds of heauen and the clouds of heauen Againe that place of the firmament where the Sunne the Moone and the starres are is called heauen Let there be lights said God in the firmament of heauen to separate the day from the night And I will multiply thy seed as the starres of heauen The third heauen if I be not deceaued the Scripture maketh to be the originall and proper habitation of Angels where they were first placed and whence they fell that are now called Diuels The Angels which kept not their originall saith Iude but left 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 THEIR PROPER HABITATION hath Godreserued in euer lasting chaines vnder darkenesse vnto the iudgement of the great day In this celestiall Paradise which at first was the proper mansion of Angels as the Scripture obserueth there was not only place for sinne and danger of falling as we find by experience of the reprobate angels but after this was left an higher degree of perfection and a greater increase of glory as we perceaue in the elect Angels who were confirmed in goodnesse and aduanced to the presence of Gods throne there to behold the face of God in the proper place of his sanctity and maiesty Of this third heauen the booke of Iob saith God found no stedfastnesse in his Saints yea the heauens are not cleane in his sight since there he found sinne in those transgressing Angels which left their proper habitation and pressed with pride and disobedience to the throne of God This fault and fall the Prophet resembleth when he saith How art thou fallen from heauen ô Lucifer Thou saidst in thine heart I will
ascend aboue the higth of the clouds and I wil be like the most high * The last or highest heauen the Scripture nameth the Seat throne or habitation of God which is not only holy as whereinto no vncleane thing shall enter but is aboue all other heauens and often called the heauen of heauens In this is the presence of Gods throne that is a perpetuall and plaine reuelation of his diuine glory and maiesty which the elect Angels alwaies behold And heere is not only the fulnesse of ioy as in the presence of God but the stability security and satiety of euerlasting life and blisse to men and Angels without any defect doubt or danger of failing or decreasing In this they want nothing and besides this they desire nothing since in him who is all in all they find all things worthy loue delight and ioy Looke downe from heauen saith Esay to God and behold from the dwelling place of thine holinesse and glory And Ieremie The Lord shall crie from aboue and giue out his voice from his holy habitation Behold the heauens and the heauens of heauens containe thee not saith Salomon Praise the Lord from the heauens saith the Psalmist praise him in the highest Praise him all his Angels praise him all his armies Praise him heauens of heauens To this place when Christ ascended with his body the Apostle saith of him that he was made higher then the heauens and ascended aboue all the heauens and sitteth â—…t the right hand of maiesty in the high places Now two we call both not all but of three we first vse this word â—…ll And the Greeke tongue hath a speciall number for two which is the duall the plurall is applied to moe Besides Moses saith in the beginning before the light or firmament were created God made eth hashamaiâ—…m the heauens and the earth where by the name of heauen the best interpreters vnderstand the place appointed for the habitation of Angels and the reuelation of Gods glory Now the word hashamaiâ—…m in Hebrew being not the singular number must haue diuers maâ—…s in it as well as the aire and 〈◊〉 haue diuers regions and sphaeres to make the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 agree to either of them So that when Christ is said to haue ascended aâ—… the heauens nature reason and Grammar besides Scripture seeme to teach vs that he ascended aboue that part of the third heauen where the Apostle noteth Paradise to be And consequently if the soules of the righteous deceased be in Paradise they are not as yet in the highest heauens where Christ sitteth in the glory of God his Father in whose house are many mansions and whether they shal be admitted at the last day when Christ shall come againe to take them vnto himselfe and to haue them for euer with him in the possession and communion of his kingdome and glory that they may be like the Angels To this difference of place and glorie before and after the day of iudgement the Scriptures incline as well as the Fathers if I mistake them not which I referre to the iudgement of the wise and learned S. Iohn saw the soules of the Martyrs Vnder the altar where they were willed to rest vntill the number of their fellow seruants were fulfilled But when crownes of glorie are giuen them as in the last day they shall stand in the presence of the throne of God and before the Lambe and he that sitteth on the throne will dwell among them Henceforth saith Paul is laied vp for me the crowne of righteousnesse which the Lord the iust iudge shall giue me at that day and not to me only but vnto all that loue his appearing Blessed be God saith Peter who hath be gotten vs again vnto â—… liuely hope to an inheritance immortall vndâ—…filed which fadeth not away reserued in heauen for you which is prepared to be shewed in the last time Now are we the Sonnes of God saith Iohn but yet it doth not appeere what we shall be we know that when he shall appecre we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is that is aswell the glorie of his Godhead as of his manhood Then as Paul saith to all the faithfull Your life is hidde with Christ in God When Christ which is our life shall appeare then shall ye also appeare with him in glory And he shal say Come ye blessed of my Father receaue the kingdome prepared for you from the foundation of the world and not retaine the kingdome already possessed by you It were easie out of new writers to shew the same Master Calâ—…m shall suâ—…ce for al who vseth not ouersoone to concurie with the fathers when they diuert from the Scriptures The soules of the saints after death are in peace saith he because they are escaped from the power of the enemy But when heauenly Ierusalem shal be aduanced to her glory and the true Salomon Christ the king of peace shall sitte aloft in his iudgement seat then shall the true Israelites raigne with their KING This they may easily perceiue by the Scriptures whosoeuer haue learned to giue eare to God and heare his voice This also haue they deliuered to vs by hand who haue sparingly and reuerently handled the mysteries of God For Tertullian saith why should we not admit Abrahams bosome to be called a temporall receptacle of the soules of the faithfull And Chrysostom Vnderstand what and how great a thing it is for Abraham to sitte and for the Apostle Paul to expect vntill he be perfected that then they may receaue their reward For vntill we come the Father hath foretold theÌ„ he wil not giue them their reward Art thou grieued because thou shalt not yet receaue it what should Aâ—… doe who ouercame so long since and yet sitteth without his crowne what Noe and the rest of those times for behold they expected thee and expect others after thee They preuented vs in their conflicts but they shall not preuent vs in their crownes because there is onetime appointed to crowne all together Augustine in many places describeth secret receptacles in which the soules of the godly are kept vntill they receaue their crowne and glory Bernard in two homilies made at the feast of all Saints where he handleth this question of purpose teacheth that the soules of the Saints departed from their bodies do stand as yet in the outward courts of the Lord being admitted to rest but not to glory Into that most blessed â—…ouse saith he they shall not enter neither without vs nor without their bodies Those that place soules in some part of heauen so they giue them not the glory of the resurrection to be shewed on them at the time of the resurrection and not before they differ nothing from the former opinion And in his institutions Since the Scripture euery where biddeth vs depend
God and chiefly Christs soule when it descended to hell not only to be brought thence but euen there by gods hand assisting to destroy the strength of Satans kingdome and to triumph ouer all the powers and Principalities of darkenesse If those wordes did alwaies import a present possession and fruition of heauenly glorie then could Dauid with no truth haue spoken them of himselfe so long before his death when as yet no part of Gods promises to him touching his kingdome were perfourmed But the soules of the faithfull are alwaies in the hand of God whiles heere they are protected by him and after this life receaued in rest though they come not as yet to be inuested with the fulnesse of heauenly glory Yea the words properly pertaining to our Sauiours person and condition after death ` Thou wilt not leaue or forsake my soule in hell doe shew that Christs soule was then in Gods hands and compassed round with the power and glory of God when hell and Satan trembled at his presence and were both vanquished and spoiled by him Your adding that this sentence may be fitly applied to Christ prooueth nothing For though I haue no doubt but Christs soule was with farre greater honour and fauour ioy and blisse receaued into the hands of God to whom it was committed then the soules of all his Saints yet that doth not prooue his present entraunce after death into the glory of heauen and continuance in the same except you will say that at his resurrection and till his Ascension his soule was out of his Fathers hands because during that time it was on earth and not in heauen which were a strange position in diuinity The soules of the righteous were in the hands of God long before Christs comming as the wise man witnesseth and yet were they not in the glory of heauen but in Abrahams bosome as our Sauiour teacheth And so the wise man expoundeth himselfe adding No torment shall touch them they are in peace and in the time of their visitation they shall shine reseruing them to a time appointed when glory shal be reuealed on them though in the meane whiles their spirits were kept in rest and ioy vnder the mighty hand of God The Thieues being in Paradise with Christ the same day that he died concludeth no such thing as you conceaue For first no words there or els where euince that Christ spake this of his humane nature Saint Austen resolueth The sense is much easier and freer from all ambiguities if Christ be vnderstood to haue said this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise not of his manhood but of his godhead And in his 111. Tractate vpoÌ„ Iohn vpholding the same exposition addeth He that said to the thiefe painfully hanging yet healthfully confessing this dâ—…y shalt thou be with me in Paradise according to his manhood had his soule that daâ—…e in hâ—…ll his flesh 〈◊〉 the graue but according to his godhead vndoubtedlie he was in Paradise Titus Bishop of Bostra in Arabia somewhat elder then Austen sheweth how these words may be verified of either of Christs natures How was this promise of our Lord made to the thiefe this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise performed Christ takâ—…n dâ—…wne from the crosse was in hell according to his soule and neuerthelesse by the power of his diuinity brought the Thiefe into Paradise Happily he first caried the beleeuing Thiefe to Paradise before he descended to hell Damascen is of Austens mind The same Christ is adored in heauen as God together with the Father and with the holy Ghost and he as man lay in the Sepulchre with his body and abode in hell with his soule and gaue entrance to the thiefe into Paradise his diuinity which cannot be comprehended in any place euery where accompanying him And so is Euthymius How said Christ this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise because as God who filleth all places he was euery where at one instant in the sepulchre in hell and in Paradise and in heauen But admit the words to be ment of Christs humane soule what reason call you this Christs soule was in Paradise that very day that he died ergo neither that day nor any day els before his resurrection his soul did or could descend to hell You must amend these reasons before any man will yeeld you to haue reason or sense Christ might that very day that he went to Paradise subdue and subiect all power in hell vnto himsâ—…lfe he might doe it the next day he might doe it the third day when he rose from the dead the time is not the thing we striue for which we must leaue to God but the reall and actuall performance of the Apostles words He spoiled powers and principalities and made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in himselfe which in other words Peter expressed when he said Christs soule was not left or forsaken in hell but God raised him â—…p loosing the sorowes of death or hell that euery knee of things vnder earth should â—…ow vnto him as well as of things in heauen and earth and that euerie tongue euen of the damned and Diuels for there are none other vnder earth should confesse either willingly or constrainedly Iesus Christ to be Lord vnto the glory of God the Father This conquest ouer hell and Satan being acknowledged whereby all power in heauen and earth and consequently in hell conteined in the earth was yeelded vnto Christs manhood after his death and before or at his resurrection we shall not need to be curious about the time and manner thereof The compilers of the centuries at Magdeburge doe well admonish Descendisse Christum in infernum articulus sidei est verum quanam ratione ibi omnia sunt gesta non est expresse traditum That Christ descended to hell is an article of the faith but in what sort all things there were donne is not expressely deliuered Happilie it is enough for vs to hâ—…ld the generall and a more exact declaration of this mysterie wee shall heare in another life The eternall and generall ordinance of God is shewed Luc. 16. to be such that none can goe out of heauen downe to hell nor come from hell vp to heauen You boldly presume after your maner that Abrahams bosome was heauen of which many learned men do make great doubt For if the soules of the righteous were in heauen before Christes death and biâ—…th then were they equall vnto the elect Angels before the resurrection which Christ saith shall be when they are the children of the resurrection and so not before And how were the wordes of our Sauiour true which he spake in his life time No man ascendeth vp to heauen but he that descended from heauen the Sonne of man which is in heauen If all the Saints deceased were in heauen or how had
speechlesâ—…e in that which you should prooue With as little skill you say 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the wordes of Orpheus are to bee construed together and not separately as I reade them but why can you tell What shall become of the coniunction 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 betweene them if the construction must bee aither aides as you set it the interpreter a man well learned doth render it thus in Latine O Rex caeli inferni O King of heauen and of hell And the coniunction 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is often copulatiue with the Poets and standeth for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as your Lexicons will teach you Besides Orpheus purpose is to confesse him whom diuels doe tremble at and Angels doe feare as his wordes presently following doe declare And therefore his meaning was rather to celebrate the Lord of all that is of heauen and hell sea land then of part You expressely collect and confesse page 371. that within Plutoes kingdome vnder the earth which they call Hades as well the places and pleasures for the good as the prisons and punishments for the bad are in their coÌ„ceit prepared setled That the Pagans so thought I doe not denie yet they neuer called Hades heauen as you doe but confessed heauen to be on hie ouer their heads where the Gods immortall were as they supposed not vnder the earth where hades was And can you be so sottish as to say I contradict my selfe because I vouch they limited hades to a place euen vnder the earth and to darknesse in respect of the light of the Sunne which we heere enioy Againe you confesse Hades with them was the Ruler or place of soules were they in rest oâ—… paine Were you euer prentice to learne to lie or haue you this facilitie by nature You can not touch a place which you doe not falsifie I said with them speaking of Infidels Hades was the Ruler or place of soules that were beneath vnder the earth were they in rest or in paine How is this repugnant either to my selfe or to the trueth You make a strange answer that Christian Religion will assure this place must needs bee hell What that place where some good mens soules deceased are in rest Is this hell Is it hell in Christian Religion who then will henceforth care for hell if some soules haue rest and pleasures in hell Know you not who rideth you when you breake your spurres on a bench and thinke you be on horse-backe That hades is beneath vnder the earth as the Pagans confessed and must needs be hell since Christian religion acknowledgeth no place vnder the earth for soules deceased besides hell I auouched what then what fault findeth your mastership therewith are any there in rest you aske The Pagans so drempt and therefore I say with them it was so that is they supposed it to be so but Christian Religion I replied assureth vs there is no place vnder the earth for soules but only hel Where are now your quicke thicke punctilioes easie hell that you so plea withall The Pagans were of that minde if you list to be one of them you may hope for rest in hell but Christian religion to which I appealed assureth vs that it is a place of torment Cannot your heauy head discerne when I report and refute Pagans opinions and when I propose points of Christian religion But you say also that those heathen Greeks did thinke this place of soules was vnder the earth It is true they thought so indeed and it was their error Then haue you all this while out-faced the trueth when you deriued from them a world of soules without limitation of place and your exposition of the Creed according to their sense must needs inferre that Christes soule after death descended vnder the earth for there is hades by the maine consent of the heathen Greekes as you now confesse And if you place heauen or paradise where the soules of the righteous now are vnder the earth to vphold your Greeke conceits you shall deserue a garland in your new made hades but I dare promise you no rest in your heauen vnder earth except you restore it to the place where God set it that is aboue vs and not beneath vs. That Hades was the proper name of a person and secondly of the place this is not materiall nor to any purpose yet it is questionlesse vtterly vntrue Is it vtterly vntrue that the Pagan Poets for of them I speake tooke Hades chiefly for the ruler of the dead and in that respect called his kingdome vnder the earth also Hades I omit what Diodorus Siculus reporteth as well of antiquitie as of the Poets that they tooke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hades the third sonne of Saturnus to be the inuentor of graues and funerals which was the cause that he was thought to be the God of the dead Antiquitie attributing to him the beginning and care of these things To goe beyond the surmises of the Grecians who tooke their learning and antiquities from the Aegyptians as appeareth by Orpheus Homers iourneyes thither to increase their knowledge the wise men amongst the Chaldeans called with them Magi who were farre more ancient then the Aegyptians as Aristotle and others witnesse taught two chiefe authors of all things 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 A good God and a bad spirit the good was called Zeus or Oromasdes the other was named Hades or Aremanios And to this giue testimonie Theopompus Eudoxus Hernippus ancient writers among the Grecians besides Aristotle who concurreth with them and Plutarke who saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this is the opinion of the most and the wisest Yea Zoroastres himselfe was of that opinion who liued some thousands of yeeres before the battell of Troy as Plutarke writeth and is taken for Cham the sonne of Noah by our Historiographers Plinie maketh him elder then Moses by many thousands of yeeres Shew me now as auncient testimonies that the place was called Hades as I shew you that the person was so named and I will yeeld If you can not prate not so presumptuously that questionlesse this is vtterly vntrue To my assertion there is no one place in trueth common to all soules departed this life but some are in heauen and some are in hell you answer yet neuerthelesse As they are some where within the compasse of the created world so are they in a common place This As doth so haunt you that you can doe nothing without it As they are in the created world so they are in one common place Then hell and heauen with you make but one place and consequently Christ sitting at the right hand of God is with all the elect angels in the same place with the diuell and the damned and we liuing heere on earth since we are in the created world are both in the same place with Christ
the condition of soules thither adiudged and I see no danger in the vse of hades for hell since the Pagans by that word intended the places vnder earth where the wicked after this life were punished A Philosopher will rarely and sometime perhaps note the aire by Tartarus yet vsually and in a manner alwayes they ment hell by it Yet Peter not Canonizing their dreames of hell notwithstanding signifieth hell indeed by that worde of theirs according to the common vse thereof Though the Poets vse not Tartarus as often as they doe Hades for the receite of soules after death yet it is false which you say that in a manner alwayes they ment the dungeon of hell by it It is an vsuall phrase among the Poets for the place where soules were bestowed after death as Hades is Pindarus expressing the inconstancie of mans life saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thou must goe to the deepe of darke Tartarus by ineuitable necessity Moschus wisheth he might goe thither to heare Bion sing there 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 O if I might goe downe to Tartarus as did Orpheus Vlysses or Hercules Hesiode sheweth how the destenies as soone as any man was wounded or slaine seased on him and sent his soule 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to cold Tartarus Anacreon giuing a reason why though he be old he is loth to die saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I sigh often fearing Tartarus for the chamber of Hades is grieuous So Theognis and others vse Tartarus for Hades without any distinction betwixt them And where you say Peter signifieth hell indeed by that word you may meete with many that will tell you Saint Peter there calleth the aire about aboue the earth by that name as well as the places vnder the earth and that in respect of the light which the reprobate Angels did before enioy in heauen this world may iustly be called darkenesse Zanchius saith By this name Peter vnderstood not the place onely which is vnder the earth sed imprimis ipsum aerem but chiefly this aire the whole space beneath this moone For in this regioÌ„ are the diuels kept captiues as the Apostle teacheth calling the diuell the Prince of this aire Saint Austin saith as much Let vs not doubt but the sinfull Angels were cast into this aeriall mist about the earth as into a prison according to the Apostles faith kept to be punished in iudgement Aretius Hiperius Beza and others are of the same mind So that this signification of Tartarus was not taken from the heathen as you presume but is a comparison with their former state when they were Angels of light and adorned with brightnesse within and without who now are throwen from their hight and plunged into outward and inward darknesse The very naturall Etymologie of the word according to the Grammar doth properly signifie VNSEENE or not seene any more in this world topos aides an vnseene place as Plato calleth it Where note it cannot bee referred to the estate of Angels but of them that had once a visible and ordinarie being and conuersation heere in this world You hang this geere together with hookes Hades you say is properly not seene any more in this world yet it is tópos áides an vnseene place as Plato calleth it You haue gotten you three starting holes vnder the couert of Hades the place vnseene the person not seene any more in this world the state inuisible but you hide your selfe so vnhandsomely in them that when you thinke your selfe most inuisible all the world may see your open follie Was the place of Hades euer seene in this world I trust not Then Hades is topos aides a place which neuer man liuing saw for a man must bee dead before he can come to that place You graunt the Grammaticall Etymologie of the word Hades is to signifie a place vnseene as Plato calleth it How come you then to applie this to the person or state not seene any more in this world by which you would exclude Angels from being in hades It is euident that the Poets made Hades a person and supplie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hadou very often with domous or such like as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the housen of Hades and call him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hades the God with the blacke lockes of haire Was this ruler of the places below which is the diuell euer aliue with vs in this world If he neuer had no visible state in this life and yet is properly and originally called Hades as I haue shewed before then Hades is that which was neuer seene in this world and doth agree as well to Angels for all your noting as to diuels if it import no more but that which is vnseene of vs. But who warranteth this interpretation besides your selfe Let aïdes stand for vnseene how prooue you as you conceiue that it inferreth a state once seene in this world and now by death vnseene I say vnseene applied to hades is neuer seene of any man liuing and not as you wrest it now no longer seene And so your Etymologie maketh nothing for you And what if hades deriued from aïdes signifie that place where nothing can be seene for lacke of light doe you not finely strip your Reader with an vnseene sleite as you thinke but indeed with a sensible deluding of the trueth peruse your masters of the Greeke tongue and tell mee whether theâ—… do not take hades for the place where nothing can be seene by reason of darkenesse Sophocles calleth it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 blacke Hades Euripides calleih it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the house without sunne light Theognis calleth it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the blacke gates Homer saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hades had for his share the darke mist to dwell in Plutarch sayth of Hades 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hee is darke and master of the blacke night The great and learned Etymologist of the Greeke tongue whom your Lexicons refuse not in most words to follow giueth this exposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 áides is that place wherein we see nothing For Hades is an house of darkenesse The place then wherein nothing can bee seene for darkenesse is properly by the masters of the Greeke tongue and by the right Etymologic of the word called Hades and all your expositions and applications be forced and framed to your owne fansies without any iust cause or reason but onely to serue your owne humours The Apostles tooke the word Gehenna from the Hebrewes and vsed it properly for hell Therefore they need not alter hades for that purpose for which they had another proper word Christ speaking to the Iewes vsed the word Gehenna for hell fire which they best vnderstood and Saint Iames writing to the Iewes dispersed saith The tongue is inflamed of Gehenna But the rest of the Apostles that instructed
withholding from hence all mens soules departed This last way is not the vnlikeliest You haue created vs new places of meere priuations which neuer were now you take vpon you to create some new persons of vnresistable power and all this you confesse is your conceauing and drawing Saint Lukes wordes whither you list But what hath the Christian faith to doe with these monstrous and impious conceits of yours For euen here where you speake of Christ you conceaue as it were some person of vnresistable power which you call hades that did and doth take his and all mens soules from hence Had hades any power ouer Christ which he could not resist Will you beginne to play the Manichee in conceauing a power of euill vnresistable to the Sonne of God and why runne you hunting after strange senses and significations of the word hades when you haue the same Canonicall writer whose wordes you would interpret expounding this very word in the Gospel which he likewise wrote as well as he did the Acts of the Apostles The place of torment where the rich man was punished after death Saint Luke in his Gospell expresly calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hades Would you wish any better expositor of Saint Lukes wordes then Saint Luke himselfe who telleth you that he calleth the place of torment for the wicked after this life by the name of Hades Put his owne exposition to his owne words and you may soone see the trueth if you haue not sworne to resist it Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hades that is the place of torment for the wicked Against this exposition though it be Saint Lukes you bend your wittes and though you feare no shadowes as you told vs euen now hauing hades for your helper yet you catch after shadowes and cannot see the light of trueth you beate your braines so much about figures and phrases which haue no warrant but in your slender conceit and slipperie tongue Howbeit let vs heere them since you rest so assured of them You obiect we must not make a figuratiue sense but where manifest need is Heere is no need of a figuratiue sense therefore heere ought to be no sigure to be supposed I answer First we graunt your conclusion Whether of the two former waies we take hades there is simply no figure at all therein If you take hades for the place where soules after this life are kept in darknesse and destruction vnder the earth you make no figure indeed by the verdict of holy Scriptures else take it how you will it is a figure or a meere fiction of yours which is woorse then a figure For since hades by your confession is originally the place where nothing is seene if you take hades either for the state of soules in that place or for the power or person of him who is ruler of that place you do neither of these without a figure As for the priuation of this life which must vsually be precedent before a man can goe to that place because it is a place for the dead and not for the liuing some onely excepted who descended to hades aliue That is a passage to the place or state of hades it is not the place or state of it selfe since either of these is positiue and not meerely priuatiue and expresseth the condition of soules receaued in that place and not onely the want of this life As for one common place or state of all soules deceased this is your vnwise fansie which hath no ground either in diuinity or humane learning by reason you take the forsaking and lacking of this life for a state or place of men departed in which no man staieth but is presently caried by angels good or badde to the places of receit where they remaine in ioy or paine according to the difference of their mansions which are either heauen or hell Then your owne sense of hell in this place is cleane ouerthrowen by your selfe For whensoeuer Hades or Sheól doe signifie hell it is indeed by a figure Synecdoche where the whole is set for a part which I haue prooued at large before and particularly by Tremellius a sufficient man for his Hebrew skill Of Sheol Tremellius speaketh of Hades he saith nothing and his rule concerneth the vse of that word in the old Testament where Sheol importeth both the graue and hell he speaketh not of the new Testament where hades is distinguished in manifest wordes from Thanatos death and is by Saint Iohn made consequent after death Since then hades in Saint Lukes wordes is a different thing from the death of Christes flesh which was not left in corruption and a place appointed for the soules adiudged to torments after this life as appeareth by his Gospell I make no figure in these wordes Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell for all your large brags and weake proofes And yet when I spake of no figuratiue sense I thereby excluded all metaphoricall significations of the word hades and not Synecdoche which admitteth the sense to be proper as well in a part as in the whole Thirdly it seemeth conuenient and also likelie to take hades heere by a Prosopopaea after our third sense before noted Which kinde of figure supposeth as it were a person of that thing which otherwise the word properly signifieth He that careth for no trueth may new cast the Scriptures into what sense he will by emptie figures To take the place for the persons possessing it is not vnusuall in the Scriptures And so S. Iohn saith Hades shall be cast into the lake of fire meaning the diuell and his angels and not your emphaticall power of death But this is nothing to Saint Lukes words thou wilt not leaue my soule in hades since it can haue no sense that Christes soule should not be left in the diuell The rest of the places which heere you repeate and apply them with seeming to your senses we shall haue occasion after to rippe vp there we shall speake farder of them In the meane space you will prooue without figures that in the words of Saint Luke expressing Dauids sentence there ought of necessitie to be vnderstoode a figuratiue sense For take them literally as I doe and they impugne the grounds of faith and charitie which is sufficient to cause a figuratiue sense in the Scriptures I maruell all this while that hauing so sound exceptions against the literall sense as you talke of you spend so much time in trifles and let the maine matters alone This is woorth the hearing if you can performe what you promise otherwise a mountaine doth hatch a mouse which the prouerbe telleth you will mooue laughter But how doth the sense which I giue impugne faith and charitie Verily this your sense implyeth by the way and consequently that a good and sinnelesse man yea the best that euer was woorthie of Paradise and the highest heauens yet after death did goe to
the very Tartarean Chaos or dungeon of hell You know the Apostle mentioneth the Aire and that on high as being the place of diuels Notwithstanding farre be it from me to affirme that hell certainely is not beneath Yet your pretended Scriptures are meerely forced to prooue it Your are lighted iust on Master Broughtons argument whose folly hath filled many sheetes afore and now all his Religion learning and reasons are emptied in the fourth part of one poore printed sheete of the lesser size of paper Onely in this he shewed some witte that he foresaw of such brainesicke stuffe the least would be the best But doe you vnderstand for he is not worthy an answere who can frame himselfe to nothing but to rage and riddles that which the Psalmist saith of the elect Angels God shall giue his Angels charge ouer thee to keepe thee in all thy waies or which the Apostle saith They are all ministring spirits sent foorth for their sakes which shall be heires of Saluation Doth this prooue there are no Angels in heauen I troe not Their office is here to attend and defend the faithfull and yet heauen is the place of their habitation whither they repaire with vnspeakeable celeritie when their speciall seruice is finished So the diuels haue hell appointed for the place of their condemnation and thither they cary and there they torment the wicked as also they are commaunded to the deepe and chained there at Gods becke notwithstanding some of them are by Gods wisedome and patience permitted to wander in the ayre and compasse the earth to tempt the wicked to trie the godly to shew their power vpon the creatures and bewray their malice against the Church of God Wherefore the ayre and earth are the places of their seeing and assaulting vs but hell is their home to be remanded thither vpon any the least occasion when pleaseth God The griefe terror and torment of their inward confusion obscuration malediction and condemnation they alwaies beare about them and within them being no way freed or eased of that wheresoeuer they goe but they are often spared from the place of torment which is the deepe that they feare and shun and yet know they must all thither at last to be terribly and eternally plagued and punished there for all their hatefull impieties and villanies They therefore during the time of our warfare conflict with them gouerne the darkenes of this world and Rule in the Ayre yet not all nor onely there they haue their chiefe their powers and principalities and their kingdome is not diuided against it selfe yet the strength and terror of their kingdome is in hell which they neither doe will nor can forsake how fearefull soeuer the place be to themselues as well for the present paines there as for remembrance it shall be in the ende of the world their perpetuall prison when their torments shall be exceedingly increased and they not suffered to start from thence The Scriptures which I brought you say are meerely forced to prooue Hell to be beneath And why because Sheol in the Scriptures by your conceite doth no where signifie hell that Sheól is a vast and deepe gulfe in the earth the bottome whereof we know not your selfe admit Then if the wicked dead or aliue descend to this vast deepe and vnknowen gulfe in the earth whither go they I pray you to the graue or to hell To goe aliue to the graue were somewhat strange and yet the graue is no deepe nor vnknowen gulfe but to descend aliue or dead to the bottom of the earth were more stranger if hell be not ment by that gulfe in the earth And if no more be ment by descending aliue to Sheol then to fall aliue into a cleft of the earth there to die the terrible iudgement of God executed on Core and his companie for their rebellion in the sight of all Israell is vtterly cluded since to fall into a deepe well or Cole-pit and there to die is as great a punishment as they suffered and is a descending aliue to Sheol as theirs was And where is the fire of Gods wrath inflaming the foundations of the hils and burning to the bottome of Sheol is that also in your gulfe of the earth and not in hell which Moses saith is the lower Sheol And how can dead men whose carkasses either lie on the earth vnburied as the King of Babylon did or are layed in their graues descend to Sheol beneath or to the lower earth if neither of these import hell but a vast and deepe gulfe in the earth whither dead bodies neuer come this for the Situation of Sheol what say you now to the opposition of Sheol to heauen Euery opposition betweene Shammaijm the heauens or skies and Sheol doth not signifie the opposition betweene heauen and hell Shammaijm thus placed signifieth the skies not the very place of Gods heauenly glory in the presence of God which in English we call heauen When Sheol is opposed is opposed in the Scriptures to Shammaijm the ground of the opposition is either the heigth of the one and the depth of the other or the glory and felicitie in the one and destruction and miserie in the other In those three places Iob 11. vers 8. Psal. 139. vers 8. Amos 9. vers 2. the perfection presence and power of God are expressed to be higher then Shammaijm and deeper then Sheol Now doth your religion serue you to restraine any of these three to the skies and the graue and not to make them superior to the highest heauen and deeper then the lowest Sheol Shammaijm you say is the skie as well as the heauen of the blessed Shammaijm is the ayre also where birds flie as well as the skies Doe you therefore thinke it a meete comparison for the presence or power of God to say that if you clime to the top of an high steeple which standeth in the ayre the hand of God can reach you there as though it were enough for the perfection presence and power of God to reach to the skies and you were skant resolued whether you should graunt it to stretch any farder But though you cauill with Hades quarrell not with God His perfection presence and power are infinite aboue the highest heauen and beneath the deepest Sheol yea these comparisons do not match him but leade vs to those places where the most wonderfull workes of God are to which no man liuing can ascend or descend much lesse can we search or attaine to the heigth or depth of him or his perfection presence or power And this is so plainely comprised in those places that none but an irreligious and impious conceiter will doubt thereof Canst thou by searching sinke out God or trace the Alâ—…ghtic to his perfection saith the booke of Iob. the heauens are high where his glory dwelleth what canst thou doe it is deeper then Sheol how canst