Selected quad for the lemma: heaven_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
heaven_n	angel_n	dragon_n	michael_n	2,970	5	11.8701	5	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A10345	The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundrie points, of the sufficiencie and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministerie of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the masse, with other controuerises of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-gouernment ... Penned by Iohn Rainoldes, according to the notes set downe in writing by them both: perused by Iohn Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithfull report of that which past in conference betwene them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise intitled, Six conclusions touching the Holie Scripture and the Church, writen by Iohn Rainoldes. With a defence of such thinges as Thomas Stapleton and Gregorie Martin haue carped at therein.	Rainolds, John, 1549-1607.; Hart, John, d. 1586. aut; Rainolds, John, 1549-1607. Sex theses de Sacra Scriptura, et Ecclesia. English. aut	1584 (1584)	STC 20626; ESTC S115546	763,703	768

we shall raigne vpon the earth By the which wordes it seemeth that he openeth what the prayers are which they offer to Christ. And sith they who offer them doo say of them selues that Christ hath made them Kinges and Priests which S. Iohn before affirmeth of the Saintes on earth it may be that they also and not the Saintes in heauen onely are represented by the foure and twentie Elders Hart. Nay the foure and twentie Elders are described with golden crownes vpon their heads And the crowne is giuen to Saintes in heauen as it is writen Be thou faithfull vntill death and I will giue thee the crowne of life Rainoldes The rewarde of life giuen to the Saintes in heauen when they haue striued as they ought to doo and gotten the victory is called a crowne or as we speake a garland by allusion to a custome that was among the Grecians For such as got the masterie in their games of wrastling or running or the like were crowned with a garland in token of victorie Whereupon the scripture by a figure of spéech doth call life eternall wherewith God rewardeth the conquerours the crowne of life not a corruptible crowne as those of the Grecians were but incorruptible a crowne that can not wither euen a crowne of glory And as the crowne is taken in this sense for a garland to signify the blisse of endlesse life and ioy it is giuen onely to the Saintes in heauen who rest from their labours But the foure and twentie Elders had golden crownes set vpon their heads and a crowne of gold betokeneth a kingdome Wherefore sith the Saintes on earth are kinges also and not the Saintes in heauen onely the foure twentie Elders may signifie them both As it is both their duties to cast their crownes before the throne and say to him who sitteth on it Thou art worthie O Lord to receiue glory and honour and power for thou hast created all thinges and for thy willes sake they are and were created Hart. But they are saide also to be clothed in white raiment And the white raiment is vsed to betoken the brightnesse of glory wherewith the Saintes in heauen are clad For Christ doth pronounce of the godly in Sardis that they shall walke with him in white and when vpon the mountaine his clothes were white glistering it was a token of his glory Rainoldes But as white raiment doth betoken glory so doth it grace too For our Sauiour aduiseth the Church of the Laodiceans to buye of him white raiment that she may bee clothed and that her filthie nakednesse doo not appeere And the scripture sheweth touching the faithful of al tongues and peoples and kinreds and nations that they had washed their robes and made their robes white in the blood of the Lambe Wherefore sith no more is saide of the Elders but that they were in white raiment it may as wel agrée to the Saintes on earth who are in white of grace as to the Saintes in heauen who are in white of glory Hart. But they were sitting on foure and twentie seates about the throne of God and the throne is saide to haue béene set in heauen Wherefore it can not be that the Saintes on earth should be meant thereby Rainoldes Why Was not S. Paul on earth when he said our conuersation is in heauen Or doth he not meane the same of all the faithfull who liue after the lawes of the heauenly citie that is the Church of God and are not earthly minded Doth not S. Iohn him selfe in the Reuelation say that a great wonder appeered in heauen a woman clothed with the sunne and the moone was vnder her feete and vpon her head a crowne of twelue starres and she was with childe and cryed trauailing in birth and was pained readie to be deliuered And is not the Church on earth hereby meant clad as it were with Christ who is the sunne of righteousnes treading downe things worldly which change as the moone adorned with the doctrine of the Apostles as of starres and bringing forth the faithfull as children vnto God Doth not he say farther that there was a battel in heauen Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and the dragon fought and his angels but they preuailed not nether was their place found any more in heauen And is not this also meant of the militant Church in which the Prince of the faithfull Michael that is Christ with his angels and seruants doth fight against the dragon that is the deuil with his angels euen all his powers and ministers and doth preuaile against them Then if the Church militant on earth be represented both in this battel and in that woman as your selues confesse and yet S. Iohn describeth the one to haue appeered the other to be doon in heauen the foure twentie Elders might haue their seates in heauen by S. Iohns vision and notwithstanding signifie the faithfull on the earth also Which yet I say not as defining it to be so for I had rather learne then teach the Reuelation wherein I doo acknowledge there are many mysteries that God hath not reuealed to me but onely to shew that you haue no ground in the holy scripture why you should restraine it to the Saintes in heauen And if I could satisfie my selfe with such aduantage to plucke downe your fansies as you content your selues with to set them vp I might as well restraine it to the Saintes on earth sith the Elders say we shall raigne vpon the earth perhaps as Christ said that the meeke are blessed for they shal inherite the earth But you and your Rhemists should haue doon well before you medled with the scriptures to learne S. Austins lesson giuen to the Donatists who when they alleaged as fit a place of scripture out of the song of Salomon to proue that the Church was in Afrike alone as you to proue that Saintes in heauen know our desires out of the Reuelation S. Austin telleth them that he were very impudent who would expound an allegorie or darke speech of scripture for his owne aduantage vnlesse he haue also plaine and manifest testimonies by the light whereof the darke may be made euident Which point in this place doth touch you the néerer because though it be graunted that the Elders signify the Saintes in heauen alone yet the praiers which are spoken off may be their owne praiers to shew that they serue God as it is shewed after that the Angels doo and all the creatures in heauen and on the earth and in the sea and vnder the earth and the foure beasts and finally them selues againe For there are manifest testimonies of scripture that all the Saintes offer vp their owne praiers in which respect they all are Priests But no

is called into question euery knée must bow in heauen in earth and vnder the earth and yéeld it vnto him whom God hath set at his right hand aboue all powers and principalities Wherefore I say not if a mā if Leo whom hope of profit might blind taking himselfe for Peters heire but if an Angell from heauen do giue it vnto Peter shall I say with the Apostle Let him be accursed I will not take on me that sentence but this I will say the sinne is verie heinous How much more heinous that it is pretended in shew vnto Peter in déede by Peters name conueied to the Pope For as boldly as Leo applieth it to Peter so boldly doth a Cardinall apply it to the Pope And a Bishop venturing further then the Cardinall not content to vouch that the Pope is Melchisedec excelling the rest incōparably in priesthood affirmeth farther of him that he is head of all Bishops from whom they do grow as members grow from the head and of whose fulnesse they do all receiue Of Christ it is written that of his fulnesse we do all receiue that he is a Priest for euer after the order of Melchisedec that he is the head of whom al the bodie being coupled and knit togither by euerie ioint giuen to furnish it through the effectuall power in the measure of euerie part receiueth encrease of the bodie But to giue these priuiledges vnto the Pope that he is Melchisedec the head of al Bishops and of his fulnesse they doe all receiue O Lord in how miserable state was the Church when this did go for catholike doctrine Was not the prophecie then fulfilled of the man who should sit in the Temple of God as God Hart. I maruell what you meane to take vs vp so sharply as for a heinous matter that we call the Pope head of the church whereas you giue that title your selues to the Quéene whom it may lesse agrée to So one that preached to vs h●re not long agoe in the Tower-chappell did make a long talke to proue that Christ onely is head of the church and charged vs with blasphemy for saying that the Pope is head yet him selfe praying for the Quéenes maiesty did name her supreme head of the church of England wherin we smiled at his folly For if it be no blasphemy to call the Quéene head why should it bée blasphemy to call the Pope head Rainoldes We giue vnto her Highnes the title not of head but of Supreme gouernour and that vpon how iust grounde of Gods word and high commission from the highest it shall in due place be shewed if you will As for the Preacher whom you mention I had rather you would deale with me by publike monuments and writings of our church as I doe with you then by reports of priuate spéeches for perhaps you fansied more then he said perhaps he said so much that you were glad to smile it out with that fansie But if your report of his Sermon be true it is likely that he gaue the name of head to the Quéene in the same meaning that we doe the title of supreme gouernour which I will proue to be godly and he denied the Pope to be head in an other meaning in which that name belongeth vnto Christ alone condemning them of blasphemy who giue it him so And they who did smile hereat as at folly because they were Papists might if they were Painims smile at the scriptures too which doe giue the title of Gods vnto gouernors and yet condemne them who haue other Gods beside the Lord. For if it be no blasphemy to call the Magistrates Gods why should it bée blasphemy to call Mercurius and Iupiter Gods Is not this your reason But our doctrine as it is holy and true so it is plaine if men will rather learne it humbly as Christians then laugh at it as Lucians or as Iulians reuolt from it For wée teach that Christ is the head of the church as hee doth quicken it with his spirite as he is the light the health the life of it and is present alwayes to fill it with his blessinges and with his grace to gouerne it In the which respects because the Scripture giueth the name of head to Christ alone by an excellency thereof we so conclude that he is the onely head of the church For otherwise we know that in an other kinde and degrée of resemblance they may be called heads who haue any preeminence of place or gouernment ouer others As in the Hebrue text we reade the heads of the Leuites for the chéefe of them and the priest the head that is to say the chiefe Priest After the which sort I will not contend if you entitle Bishops heads of the churches as Athanasius doth and Gregorie when he had named our Sauiour Christ the head of the vniuersall church hée calleth Christes ministers as it were heads Paul Andrew Iohn heads of particular flocks yet members of the church all vnder one head Hart. You graunt in effect as much as I require For if either Bishoppe or Cardinall haue giuen that vnto the Pope which is due to Christ as he is head properlie wée maintaine them not UUe say that as pastors all who haue the charge to gouerne the church are heads after a sort that is improperly as I termed it so the Pope who is the chiefest of them all is the supreme head And in this sense you must take vs when we do entitle the Bishop of Rome the supreme head of the church Rainoldes I will take you so Howbeit for as much as the name of head hath sundrie significations in this kind of spéeches as the scripture sheweth God is the head of Christ Christ is the head of man man is the head of the woman the head of Syria Damascus the head of Damascus Retzin the king the head of the tribes of Israel and the heads of housholdes the eldest and the head of the people the formost and the head of the mountaines the highest and the head of the spices the chiefest in offenders the heads the principall and amongst Dauids captaines the heads the most excellent some of the which import a preeminence of other things not of power and they that do of power some import a greater power some a lesser I would vnderstand particularlie what power you giue vnto the Pope by calling him supreme head least afterward we vary about the meaning of it Hart. The power which we meane to him by this title is that the gouernement of the whole church of Christ throughout the world doth depend of him in him doth lye the power of iudging and determining all causes of faith of ruling councels as President and ratifying their decrées of ordering and confirming Bishops and pastors of deciding causes brought him by appeales from

is writen also in the holy Gospell that in an other Councell and consultation of the Iewes wherein they sought vniustly to condemne the iust when Iesus being asked whether he were Christ the sonne of God confessed him selfe to be so Caiphas the hye priest saide hee hath blasphemed what neede we witnesses any further behold now you haue heard his blasphemie Was this spéeche of Caiphas a prophecie or an errour Hart. What if it were an errour Rainoldes How sée you not then that Caiphas did not prophecie by priuilege of his office For so he should haue prophecied in this Councell too in which he sate as hye Priest hée spake as hye Priest and to him as hye Priest the Councell did assent in giuing sentence against Christ. But that amongst many mischiefes and falshoodes he spake the wordes of truth once in a sense not which he meant for he meant wickedly but which his spéeche yéelded there was a worke of God in it Who hauing sent his sonne a sauiour to the Iewes as he stirred them vp to know him and receiue him by Angels by wonders by voyces from heauen by wise men from the east a prophetisse in the temple Iohn Baptist in the wildernes by men women childrē all sortes of persons yea by the diuels them selues so he made the hye Priest to beare witnesse of him by giuing out an O●●cle vnder doutfull wordes to make the Iewes more vnexcusable that by his owne mouth the naughtie seruant might be iudged Wherefore not the ordinarie priuilege of office but an extraordinarie motion of God did guide the tongue of Caiphas to prophecie of Christ as he opened the mouth of the asse of Balaam to reproue her maister And you who would gather an ordinarie priuilege of the Popes office by that extraordinarie prophecying of Caiphas doo make a like reason as if you should conclude that the Popes horse can speake because that Balaams asse did Nay you might conclude this on greater reason For Balaams asse spake twise Caiphas prophecied but once Hart. Your similitude is odious I maruell why you vse such Rainoldes Because your reason is absurd I would faine haue you see it Hart. Absurd He that should call it absurd in our schooles would be thought him selfe absurd For it is grounded vpon a proportion betwixt the hie Priest and the Pope the Church of the Iewes and of the Christians Rainoldes Then by a reason of proportion belike the Pope condemneth Christ as Caiphas did and vexeth Christians as Annas Doo you allowe hereof in your schooles also Hart. Yet againe I see you will neuer leaue these odious comparisons The Pope to Caiphas and Annas Rainoldes You are a straunge man who go about to proue by the example of Caiphas that the Pope can not erre in office and are angrie with me for touching the weakenes of your reason therein Hart. Wel. I graunt that Caiphas had not that priuilege For it was not promised to the hie Priestes of the Iewish Church but till the comming of Christ at which time the Prophets shewed that it should faile them For Ieremie saith thereof In that day the heart of the king shall perish and the heart of the Princes and the Priestes shal be astonished And Ezekiel more plainely The law shall perish from the Priest counsell from the Elders But till that time they had it and did teach the truth according to the law and were to be obeied in all things which they taught Rainoldes Yea What say you then of Vrias who was hie Priest vnder king Achaz sixe hundred yeares before Christ He ceased to sacrifice on the altar of God appointed by the law and hauing made a new one like to the altar of Damascus he sacrificed vpon it Whereby he defiled himselfe and the land with rebellion against the Lord. Hart. I say that Vrias did erre in doing so But we may refute this reason of yours by denying that Vrias did succede Aaron and was of the tribe of Leui. Rainoldes In déede a Cardinall answereth that you may refute it so in one word And that is shewed plainelye enough as he saith by those wordes of scripture which are writen of Ieroboam He made Chapels in hie places and Priestes of the lowest of the people who were not of the sonnes of Leui. But this refutation is as fitte against our reason of Vrias as if a mā should say that Bishops in England are not Protestants because the Bishops of Fraunce are Papistes For the Priestes which Ieroboam made of the lowest of the people not of the sonnes of Leui were in the kingdome of Israel at Bethel and Dan and Vrias was Priest in the temple at Ierusalem in the kingdome of Iuda The thing is apparant by the very course and text of the scripture And they who would saue the Priesthood most gladly from the shamefull staine agree that he was hie Priest the successour of Aaron Hart. Let it be admitted that he was so The staine of his fault is not so foule as you make it For what did he els but that which we reade Pope Marcellinꝰ to haue done Who in the horrible persecution of Christians vnder Maximian and Diocletian took incense for feare and offered it to Idols Vrias did transgresse the law of God not wilfully but through the frailtie of the flesh not of his own accord but by the kings commaundement Wherfore it came rather of feare then of rashnes or ignorance that hee offended Rainoldes So did it in Peter that he denied Christ. And may you therefore say that Peter was priuileged not to denie Christ I maruell that you feele not the grossenes of your dealing You say that hie Priestes are priuileged by their office to perseuere in true doctrine It is shewed that they fall to manifest Idolatrie You graunt they do so but they do it for feare you say Where is the priuilege then For God to whom so euer he giueth any benefit as it were by priuilege hee giueth them a priuilege withall of speciall fauour to frée them from the lettes that might debarre them of the benefit Ezekias was sicke of a pestilent disease whereof he should haue died God did adde fifteene yeares to his life He tooke away his sickenes that he might enioy it S. Paule was in daunger to be lost with shipwracke and all the rest who sailed with him God did giue to him his owne life and theirs He kept them all from danger and brought them safe vnto the land Wherefore if God had giuen a priuilege of true doctrine to the hie Priestes hee woulde haue giuen them a priuilege of grace too that no deceit of fleshe should make them fall away from it But they might fall away from it by sundry meanes to errour yea to Idolatrie For if they might for feare why not for loue also as Salomon did If for loue

breath doo say that the same thing is both writen and vnwriten Yet Father Robert dealeth wiselyer and like a Iesuite who séeing the danger of naming speciall men and places doth shrowd himselfe in the generall of Councels Popes and Fathers As if an horse-stealer being to giue account of whom and where he got his horses should say that he bought them of incorporations horse-coursers and honest men within Christendom Hart. Will you leaue your roauing and come vnto the marke now Rainoldes It is a roauing marke we shote at and I am come néerer it then you would haue me But what shall be your next ba●● Hart. I told you that I would proue it next by the Fathers It agreeth very well with your spirit that you should call this a bolt Rainoldes Well enough as you shoote it For although the Lord hath planted the writings of the Fathers as trees in his Church as in a Paradise whereof there may be made good shaftes blessed is the man that hath his quiuer full of them they shall not be confounded but they shall destroy their enimies in the gate yet not all the shaftes which you do vse of theirs are good your fletchers at whose handes you take them vpon trust doo marre them in the making that I may iustly call them rather bolts of Papistes then shafts of the Fathers Who if they were aliue might say to you in like sorte as did a Poet to Fidentinus This booke Sir Fidentinus which thou doost reade is mine But thou by reading it amisse beginst to make it thine Hart. Will you promise then to yelde vnto the Popes supremacie if I proue it by the sayings and iudgement of the Fathers alleaged and applyed rightly Rainoldes I truly But I must doo it with a protestation for my defense against such quarrelers as Bishop Iewell fell vpon Hart. With what protestation Rainoldes With this that I promise to yéelde vnto the Popes supremacie if you can proue it by the Fathers not beca●●e I thinke that proofe to be sufficient of doubtfull matters in religion but because I know you are not able so to proue it Hart. Whether I be able or no so to proue it the thing it selfe will shew But if you thinke not that a sufficient proofe why saide you that the writinges of Fathers are as trees whereof there may be made good shaftes such as shall destroy their enimies in the gate yea that the man is blessed who hath his quiuer full of them Rainoldes It is writen in the Psalmes Except the Lord keepe the citie the keeper watcheth in vaine By the which wordes the Prophet séemeth to haue thought that the warde and watch of men is not sufficient for the defense of cities vnlesse the Lord assist them with his watch and ward How say is not this true Hart. So. What of that Rainoldes That is an answere to your question For the Prophet adding how God doth blesse men in giuing them children saith they are as arrowes in the hand of a strong man blessed is the man that hath his quiuer full of them they shall not be confounded but they shall destroy their enimies in the gate If this be truly spoken of children well nurtured who yet are not sufficient to defend a citie without the Lordes assistance why might it not be spoken of Fathers well vsed and yet they not suffice to decide a controuersie without the worde of God For though I acknowledge there is good wood in them to make shaftes for the Lordes warres yet is not all their wood such some of it is knottie some lithy ●ome crooked And the best arrowes which are made thereof vnlesse they haue heades of stronger mettall then them selues out of the Lords armorie they are not sharpe enough to pearce into the harte of the kinges enimies as are the arrowes of our Salomon Wherefore as of your part if you hearken not to Moses and the Prophetes I haue no greate hope that Fathers will perswade you though they should rise from the dead so for my selfe I will assure you that neither dead nor quicke Fathers nor children shall perswade me any thing in matters of religion which they can not proue by Moses and the Prophetes For the Apostles preached not any thing but that which the Prophetes and Moses saide should come to passe And if a Father if a Saint if an Angell from heauen preach beside that which the Apostles preached let him be accursed This lesson I haue learned of Paul the Apostle and I subscribe vnto it If you can like it better out of a Fathers mouth learne it of S. Austin Who writing against the Donatists which could not proue by scripture their erroneous doctrine doth presse them with the same sentence and teach al Christians the same lesson whether it be of Christ or of his Church or of any thing els whatsoeuer pertaining to our faith and life I will not say if we but if an Angel from heauen shall preach to you besides that which you haue receyued in the scriptures of the law and the Gospel that is to say the olde and new testament let him be accursed Hart. You mistake the meaning of S. Austins wordes For they are thus in Latin Proinde siue de Christo siue de eius ecclesia siue d● quacunque alia re quae pertinet ad fidem vitamque nostram Rainoldes I haue the right meaning of these wordes I trow for they are plaine of all thinges that doo concerne our faith and life Hart. I but heare the rest Non dicam si nos nequaquam comparandi ei qui dixit licet nos sed ●mnino quod sequutus adiecit si angelus Rainoldes Neither doo I mistake these For he alludeth to the wordes of Paul to the Galatians Hart. But you mistake the meaning of that which doth follow Si angelus de coelo vobis annuntiauerit praeterqàum quod in scripturis legalibus euangelicis accepistis anathema sit Rainoldes Why doth he not meane the old new testamēt as we call them by the scrip●ures of the law and the gospell Hart. Yes but your errour is in the worde praeterquàm by which he meaneth contra quàm not beside that but against that For there are sundrie thinges of faith and life to be preached beside them in the scriptures of the law and the gospell but not against them Wherefore if it were so that the Popes supremacie could not be proued by scriptures yet the proofe of it by the Fathers might be good For it were not against the scriptures although it were beside the scriptures Rainoldes Praeterquàm id est contra quàm beside that which you haue receyued in the scriptures that is against that This is your Louanists glose Hart. Nay it is S. Austins as you may perceiue by his own wordes in an other place touching the same matter where he saith thus The Apostle did not say

the godly And giue to sinners pardon Now sith our reformed Church hath thought it impious to offer any such prayers to creatures why haue you retained this to the crosse and not the other to S. Thomas Hart. Whether that prayer to S. Thomas of Canterburie were in the Roman Portesse before they reformed it I am not sure perhaps it was not although it were in ours after the vse of Sarum Rainoldes Most likely that it was in the Roman too sith he dyed a martyr of the Roman Papacie But whether it were or no there were other thinges vncertaine and inconuenient which the reformers haue left out as the Pope confesseth Who confesseth also that almost al Primers yea the Latin too were stuffed full with vaine errours of superstitions before he reformed it Wherefore sith you haue left out other superstitious inconuenient things in your reformed Seruice-bookes why haue you retained this prayer to the crosse which might haue gone with the rest Hart. The other were a●olished iustly as vnfit But this is ●ot so For why should you mislike a prayer to the crosse of which S. Paule saith God forbid that I should reioyce but in the crosse of our Lord Iesus Christ Rainoldes That is in Christ crucified as S. Paule doth meane it not in the wood the galowes the tree to which you make your prayer For God forbidde that wee should reioyce in any thing sauing in the Lord whose redéeming of vs by suffering death vpon the crosse because it was a stumbling blocke to the Iewes S. Paule saith the crosse was a stumbling blocke by a figuratiue spéech meaning as him selfe doth open it Christ crucified And so he calleth Christes blood the blood of the crosse and the preaching of his gospell the preaching of the crosse and persecution rising of it persecution for the crosse and against them who reioyced in circumcision and the law he saith that he reioyceth not but in the crosse of our Lord Iesus Christ. But to the purpose of my question if they of your Church who reformed your Seruice-bookes thought that of the prayers which we doo mislike they might abolish some and retaine others what if amongst the feastes which others doo mislike they who reformed our ceremonies retained the annuntiation and purification of the virgin though they abolished the conception natiuitie and assumption Chiefly séeing that in those which they reteined they regarded the honour of Christ conceiued and presented as your selues acknowledge in those which they abolished they remoued the superstitious worship of a creature as the thing witnesseth For both they were supposed to be feastes instituted to a Saintes honour as they were indéede neither is there any thing of them in the scriptures that men might be edified by that wherof the memorie was celebrated in them and they maintaine corrupt opinions touching the virgin with derogation to Christes honour For you meane by the feastes of her natiuity and conception that she was neither borne nor conceiued in sinne Which if it were so then neither she néeded Christ to be her Sauiour who came to saue sinners the prerogatiue of Christ to be seuered from sinners were common vnto her with him A thing so absurd and contrarie to the scriptures which shew that all haue sinned and are the children of wrath by nature that not the Fathers onely but your chiefe Schoole-men and Canons also doo gainesay it Yea the feast of her conception when it was créeping in was therefore reproued and the very glose of your Canon-law condemned sundry countries and England namely for kéeping it But the conception and natiuitie of the blessed virgin make her scarse equall vnto Christ the feast of the assumption doth lift her somwhat higher For when Christ was taken vp into heauen the Apostles were lead forth a litleway on foote to sée it and witnes it But to her assumption they were brought by miracle in cloudes as in chariots from all the coastes of the world through which they were dispersed And this is it which I called and cal againe a fable or if you will a lye as Bede doth though your Diuines of Rhemes doo vouch it as a true storie Hart. It is a true storie as our Diuines of Rhemes doo ●ouch it though as he reported it whom venerable Bede doth touch it was a lye For he reported it to haue béene doon the second yeare after Christes ascension which Bede doth proue it could not be But our Diuines referre it to the fifteenth yeare after For they take the common opinion that she liued three score and three yeares in all Now shee brought forth Christ when she was fifteene yeare olde So that her assumption was eight and fortie yeares after Christs natiuitie And this agréeth with Eusebius who saith that some do write it was reueled to them that she was assumpted the eight and forteeth yeare of Christ which was fifteene yeares after his ascension Rainoldes Then you graunt that they who say it was the second yeare after doo lye Hart. I graunt For that circumstance can not stand with scripture as venerable Bede doth proue Rainoldes Then a holy nunne did lye or an angel or a deuill that appéered in the likenes of the virgin and tolde her that tale Hart. What if some were deceiued in circumstance of time Yet the storie notwithstanding of her assumption is true as our Diuines of Rhemes report it For at the time of her death as S. Denys first and after him S. Damascene writeth al the Apostles then dispersed into diuers nations to preach the gospell were miraculously brought togither sauing S. Thomas who came the third day after to Ierusalem to honour her diuine departure and funerall as the said S. Denys writeth Who saith that him self S. Timothee and S. Hierotheus were present testifying also of his owne hearing that both before her death and after for three daies not onely the Apostles and other holy men present but the Angels also and powers of heauen did sing most melodious hymnes They buried her sacred body in Gethsemani But for S. Thomas sake who desired to sée and to reuerence it they opened the sepucher the third day and finding it voide of the holy body but excéedingly fragrant they returned assuredly déeming that her body was assumpted into heauen As the Church of God holdeth being most agréeable to the singular priuilege of the mother of God and therefore celebrateth most solemnely the day of her assumption And it is consonant not onelie to the said S. Denys S. Damascene but to S. Athanasius also who auoucheth the same Of which assumption of her bodie S. Bernard also wrote fiue notable sermons extant in his workes Rainoldes But in all those fiue sermons of S. Bernard there

is not one worde of your miraculous fable As litle in S. Athanasius beside that the sermon which you alleage as his is in your own edition reiected for a bastard In Damascene there is more yet not so much neither as here your Portesse hath But he is too late too weake a witnes to proue a doubtful matter pretended to be doon almost fiue hundred yeares before him The best or rather all your proofe is S. Denys whom you belye notablie For where saith he that which you doo father on him Hart. Where in an epistle of his to S. Timothee Rainoldes He wrote no such epistle Your Rhemistes did mistake their Portesse whence this stuffe is borowed For reading there that Denys wrote hereof to Timothee they thought it had béene in an epistle to Timothee The place which they meant is in a booke entitled of the names of God pretended to be writen to Timothee by Denys Hart. In a booke or an epistle it is a great matter why you should charge them with lying Rainoldes I doo not therefore charge them with it Neither would I mention this but to point you the place in which they lye For they say that S. Denys writeth these these things where neither the autour who writeth is S. Denys neither writeth he the thinges which they alleage Touching the thinges first he saith no more thereof but that amongst the Bishops inspired of the holy Ghost Hierothe●s excelled all the rest saue the Apostles in praysing Christes goodnesse when him selfe and Timothee and many of their holy brethren came together to behold the body which receyued God and which the Prince of life was in As for the miracle of the Apostles brought together S. Thomas comming the thirde day after the Angels singing hymnes three dayes the buriall of the virgins body the desire of Thomas to see it the sepulcher opened for his sake and the body assumpted into heauen he saith not one worde of these conceites not one word Nay he rather saith against them For he noteth namely that Iames was also present the brother of the Lord and Peter the chiefe and ancientest toppe of the Apostles Which it is not likelie he would so note of two Apostles if they had all béene present Much lesse is it likely that he would say nothing of so great a miracle if any such had happened Hart. Perhaps it is writen in some other parte of S. Denys workes Rainoldes In no part at all of anie worke that beareth the name of S. Denys Hart. Not that is extant now But he wrote manie more as Nicephorus sheweth and Damascene maketh mention of this epistle to Timothee Rainoldes Nay that which Damascene mentioneth is the booke I spake of whence all that he citeth is taken word for word Yea Nicephorus also doth alleage the same quoting the very chapter as the onely place wherein the assumption of the blessed virgin is proued by S. Denys The more doo I maruell what should moue your Rhemists to say that S. Denys writeth and witnesseth that all the Apostles were brought miraculously together to honour her diuine departure yea and that he testifieth of his own hearing that both before her death and after for three dayes the Angels did sing most melodious hymnes vnlesse they were disposed to lye for the whetstone But this of the thinges The other of the autour is not so great a faute yet a faute too For they would haue men thinke that he who wrote this worke of the names of God others of the heauenly ecclesiastical hierarchie as he termeth it was the famous Denys the scholer of S. Paul Wheras it was a counterfeit who tooke that Denys name vpon him Hart. It was that famous Denys in déed who wrote those notable and diuine workes and others in which he confirmeth and proueth plainely almost all thinges that the Church now vseth in the ministration of the holy sacraments and affirmeth that he learned them of the Apostles giuing also testimonie for the Catholike faith in most thinges now controuersed so plainely that your men haue no shift but to deny that Denys to haue béene the autour of them feyning that they be an others of later age Which is an old sleight of heretikes but most proper to you of al others Who séeing al antiquitie against you are forced to be more bold or rather impudent thē others in that point Rainoldes These flowers of your Seminarie that wee are heretikes bold impudent that all antiquitie is against vs you may spare them for they are stale they haue béene dipt in gall lye You say that he proueth plainely almost al things that the Church now vseth in the ministration of the holy Sacraments If you meane by the Church not our Church but yours that almost must haue fauor or els without almost you lauish For though he haue more thinges then either the Church of the Apostles had or ours doth allow yet neither all that you haue many that you haue not and some cleane contrarie to yours As namely in the sacrament of the Lords supper wherin you varie from vs most he neither hath your stage-like gestures toyes nor inuocation of Saintes nor adoration of creatures nor sacrificing of Christ to God nor praying for the soules in Purgatorie nor sole receyuing of the Priest nor ministring vnder on● kind to them who receiue nor exhortations lessons prayers in a tongue which the people doth not vnderstand So that in thing● of substance and not of ceremonie only he differeth as farre from your blasphemous Masse as he is néere to our Communion But the thinges which he hath you say that he affirmeth he learned them of the Apostles He doth so I graunt as it was fit for him who would be counted that Denys which was conuerted by S. Paul But as it happeneth vnto counterfeites he hath forgot himselfe in one place and so betrayed the feate For speaking of infants why they are baptized hereof saith he we say those thinges which our diuine maisters being instructed by the old tradition haue brought vnto vs. By the which words the man at vnawares hath shewed that he learned not not of the Apostles For Christ him selfe instructed the Apostles of baptisme they had it not from old tradition Hart. That is a weake coniecture why he should be a counterfeit For he might call the tradition of the Apostles old tradition though it were but certain yeares or moneths before him Rainoldes Hardly if he liued in the same time with them But if he might yet could he not say that the Apostles were instructed by the old tradition of the Apostles Belike his maisters were younger men Hart. Our coniectures may deceiue vs we must not trust them in such matters The Fathers count him the right Denys For Gregorie Nazianzen Origen

the Ministers doth shew And herein their dealing is so much the worse because they set it out with the name of Erasmus as if he meant by sacrificing the saying of Masse which is farre from him For although by reason he thought that the word doth properly signifie not simply to minister but to minister in holy thinges as they who serue in the Priesthood therfore he did translate it that the Prophets Doctours in the Church at Antioche were sacrificing to the Lord yet he saith that hereby is meant that they imployed their giftes to Gods glory and the saluation of the Church the Prophets in propheciing the Doctours in teaching the doctrine of the Gospell So he vnderstandeth nothing els by sacrificing then others doo by ministring or rather then the scripture doth as it is obserued out of the circumstances of the text by the best of your own interpreters Who séeing that the men were Prophets and Doctours which are said to haue béene ministring to the Lord thereupon do gather that they serued him in executing their owne ministerie that is to say the ministerie of prophecying and teaching In which sort the Gréeke fathers doo expound it also what meaneth the word ministring say they it meaneth preaching Wherefore if the name of Liturgie were taken hereof by the Gréeke fathers as your Rhemists adde it is a good hearing but so much the lesse will it proue your Mas●e For if they vnderstood preaching by ministring when the worde is spoken of Prophets and Doctours it is the more likely that when they applyed it to the ministerie of the Pastours ● seruice of the Church they meant the publike prayers and other holy functions which we doo call Diuine seruice As in truth they did For that which we call euening prayer they called the euening Liturgie as you would say the seruice doon to God at euening and in the verie Liturgie that is called Chrysostomes because he made some part of it belike not all for himselfe therein is prayed too but in that very Liturgie the word is applied to the Churches seruice in the same maner as it is to the seruice which Angels doo to God And I hope you will not affirme that the Angels doo say Masse in heauen Wherefore howsoeuer Erasmus did translate it after the phrase of his time wherein the Churches seruice was commonly called Missa the ministerie mentioned in the Actes of the Apostles doth not proue that sacrifice of which you would inferre your Priesthood As for the place of Esay in which it is writen you shall be called the Priests of God the Ministers of our God shal it be said vnto you the course of the text doth seeme to meane by Priestes all the seruants of God whom Peter calleth an holy Priesthood to offer vp spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Iesus Christ. For the words are spoken as in Christes person to all the faithfull and repentant who should be trees of righteousnes to build vp the Church and thereupon are promised that their enimies shall serue them and they shall serue God But in an other place of Esay I graunt the name of Priest is giuen to Pastors and Elders where speaking of the calling and conuersion of the Gentiles And of them saith he will I take for Priests for Leuites saith the Lord. Hart. S. Ierom doth expound the former place of them also But all is one to my purpose For séeing that Pastours and Elders as you terme them are called Priests in scripture and the name of Priest implyeth you confesse autoritie to sacrifice it foloweth that Pastours and Elders are Priestes autorized to sacrifice Now the Priest that hath autoritie to sacrifice is he whom you do call a Masse-priest Wherefore both Masse and Priests are proued by the scripture Rainoldes Why Thinke you that euerie Christian man and woman is a Masse-priest because the name of Priests is giuen them by scripture in respect of spirituall sacrifices which they must offer vnto God Hart. No. Because the sacrifices that they must offer are spirituall and are called sacrifices by a borowed kinde of spéech and not properly But the sacrifice which is offered to God in the Masse is an external visible true and proper sacrifice as it is declared by the Councell of Trent So that the Priestes ordeined to offer this sacrifice are properly called Priestes wheras other Christians are called so improperly according to the nature of the sacrifices which they offer Rainoldes Then the name of Priestes alleaged out of Esay doth not proue your Masse-priestes For he doth call the Ministers of the gospell Priestes in respect of the spirituall sacrifices which they must offer And that appéereth by the words going next before in which the Lord declaring euen by S. Ieroms iudgement too that he would call the Iewes to the same honour that by the name of Priests is signified and they saith he shall bring the Gentiles for an offering to the Lord as the children of Israel offer in a cleane vessell in the house of the Lord. So to bring the Gentiles as an offering to the Lord is that for which they who do bring such offerings are named Priestes and Leuites But the offering vp of the Gentiles vnto him is a spirituall sacrifice made by the Ministers of Christ as Paule sheweth when they conuert the Gentiles through the preaching of the gospell The sacrifice therefore in respect whereof the Ministers of the gospell are called Priestes by Esay is a spirituall sacrifice And as euerie faithfull person is a Priest because we must offer each his owne bodie a liuing sacrifice holy acceptable vnto God so that name is giuen to Ministers of the gospell because they are called to offer vp the bodies of other men in like sort Wherefore if priuate Christians are not Masse-priestes because their sacrifices are spirituall then sith the Ministers must offer vp the like sacrifices it foloweth by your answere that nether they are Masse-priestes Hart. The Ministers of the gospell must offer vp the like sacrifices I deny it not And in that respect it is true that nether they nor priuate Christians are proued to bee Masse-priestes But there is an other an externall sacrifice that Ministers must offer also euen that which our Lord in the prophet Malachie doth call a cleane oblation and saith that in euerie place it is sacrificed and offered to his name because his name is great among the Gentiles And that is the sacrifice in respect whereof the Ministers of the gospell are called Priestes properly and are indéede Masse-priests For the cleane oblation is the sacrifice of the Masse wherein the body and blood of Christ is offered vp vnto God his father as the Councell sheweth an oblation that cannot be defiled by the vnworthines or wickednes of them who offer it Rainoldes What And be

manifest testimonie that their praiers are offered in heauen vnto God by anie other person then by Christ Iesus the hye Priest of our profession the Angell of the couenant the onely mediator betweene God and man And this doth séeme to be that Angel that other Angell of whom it is writen in the Reuelation An other Angell came and stoode before the altar hauing a golden censer and there was much odours giuen vnto him that he should put them into the prayers of all the Saintes on the golden altar which is before the throne and the smoke of the odours which were put into the prayers of the Saintes went vp before God out of the Angels hand For although the Angels be ministring spirites sent forth to minister for the Saints on earth who shall inherite saluation and therefore as they serue to certifie them that their prayers are come vp before God so they might rather offer their prayers to God then the Saintes in heauen who haue no such ministery to serue the Saintes on earth yet because this Angell standing with a censer at the altar of incense to burne perfume before God is set forth as dooing that duetie which the hie Priest did figure in the law and our hye Priest is no created Angel but he by whom the Angels were created euen Christ it foloweth that Christ is meant by the Angell To whom this name is giuen oftentimes in scripture because he is an Angel that is to say a messenger sent by God his father to open his will vnto his seruants and worke their saluation by his couenant And it may be that as God the father hauing said of him Behold I send an Angell doth adde my name is in him to shew that he is God so to distinguish him from the created Angels who are often mentioned in the Reuelation S. Iohn doth cal him an other Angell as differing from the rest not onely in number but also in nature autoritie and dignitie For those things which are writen of the Angell who had the seale of the liuing God who casting fier into the earth the Angels blew their trumpets and powred out the plagues of God who comming downe from heauen clothed with a clowde and the rainebow vpon his head and his face was as the sunne his feete as pillers of fier had in his hand a little booke set his right foote on the sea and his left foote on the lande which are namely written of an other Angell an other mightie Angel as he is also called doo if the circumstances of the text be weighed best agrée to Christ. But whether it be so or no it is certaine that Christ is the Angell who putteth odours of most sweete perfume into the prayers of all the Saintes as our hye Priest and offreth them to God his father to whom he maketh alwayes intercession for vs and is not onely for our prayers but for our selues also an odour of a sweete smelling sauour before him Wherefore sith the scripture manifestly sheweth that our Sauiour Christ offreth the prayers of all the Saintes and not that the Saintes in heauen offer the prayers of the Saintes on earth you might haue bene contented to leaue this honour vnto Christ and haue suffred me to go forward with your reasons about the offering in Malachie For you see how we are fallen from the Pope to Priests from Priests to the Masse from Masse to the Saintes And if I should folow the same veyne on that which you haue saide of Saintes and touch your abuse who confessing that the scriptures giue that name to faithfull and holy persons in earth yet to maintaine your solemne inuocation of dead men do make it proper not to Saintes in heauen but to them whom it shall please the Pope to canonize or deifie as the Master of his sacred ceremonies termeth it wherin notwithstanding your Doctors also teache that the Pope may erre and canonize a wicked person for a Saint so that it may be euen by your owne doctrine that in your Church-seruice you worship them as Saints whose spirits are in hell with the deuill and his Angels I say if I should flit thus from point to point on euery occasion that your speech doth offer we should confound our conference and neuer make an end of the point in question Wherefore let other questions I pray be reserued to their due place touchinge the faith of the Church And now to finish this touching the head of the Church let vs go forward with your Masse-priestes that so we may returne to the Popes supremacy Of the sixe reasons therfore which you alleaged out of D. Allen to proue that the cleane offring which Malachie doth write of is the sacrifice of the Masse and not spirituall sacrifices the first is conuinced clearely to be false and that by the consent of all the same Fathers whom he would proue it by For the word which noteth an outward sacrifice with him with all them is incense of sweete perfumes and odours But incense in the scripture is taken for the praiers of the Saintes as you grant The word then which he doth build the Masse vpon is not alwayes taken properly in scripture for the act of outward sacrifice Hart. But he doth not onely vrge the word to sacrifice for which indéede the Fathers and the Hebrewe text haue incense but the word to offer And if that be alwaies taken properly for the act of outward sacrifice his reason is of force still Rainoldes But the force of his reason doth lye vpon the word to sacrifice not to offer For him selfe granteth that lay men yea women too are said to offer properly and truely when as in the olde law the tithes and first fruites commanded to be giuen to the Leuites and the poore were presented before God so they present bread and wine for the communion or almes for the reliefe of the poore and needy or any earthly giftes and offerings for holy vses as the Fathers shew Wherefore though the word to offer were alwaies taken properly for the act of outward offering it proueth not the offering of your outward sacrifice sith the wise men offered giftes vnto Christ the faithfull Iewes at the altar lay men and women at the Masse and yet nether any of them were Massing-priests nor their offerings Massing-hosts Much lesse doth it proue it as Malachie applyeth it to the offering of incense For as incense signifieth the prayers of the Saintes so to offer incense must be to sacrifice those prayers But the sacrifice of prayers is a spirituall sacrifice Wherfore the word to offer doth not proue your outward sacrifice of the Masse And so the first reason is gone The second foloweth which is no sounder then the former For why doth Allen say that the