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A01009 Purgatories triumph ouer hell maugre the barking of Cerberus in Syr Edvvard Hobyes Counter-snarle. Described in a letter to the sayd knight, from I.R. authour of the answere vnto the Protestants pulpit babels. Floyd, John, 1572-1649.; Jenison, Robert, 1584?-1652, attributed name. 1613 (1613) STC 11114; ESTC S115113 123,366 230

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about faith manners may be proued What doth follow but that some vnwritten verities and traditions are found which haue equall authoritie with diuine Scripture Is not this argument in good forme Are not the premisses thereof certaine which euen our enemies doe grant May traditions be termed sleeuelesse for which your owne Taylors or Doctours make such glorious winges that therby they fly vp to the throne of diuine Truth 20. But I will not bestow on your suggesting Minister a sleeueles garment but rather grant him a Coate with foure sleeues for his Metaphore by which he maketh the Church Scriptures daughter many Churches as S. Irenaeus writeth (b) l. 3. c. 4. in his time had neuer read any word of Scripture yet did they flourish by keeping the Tradition of Christian doctrine in their hartes Was the Scripture the Mother of these Churches I see not which way you will draw their pedigree from the Scripture except in your next writings you make Scripture Grandmother who hath bin yet scarse 3. yeares a Mother The Church of the old Testament was some thousand yeares (c) 2000 yeares from Adam vnto Moyses before Scripture the Church of the New did flourish many yeares before any Ghospell was written who euer saw or heard a daughter borne before the mother A Sonne before the mother I haue heard of yet he as Man according to which Nature he was her Sonne was not before her So that the Church Child of Scripture a daughter before the Mother is the Pallas of your braine which some Vulcans sharp hatchet hath holpen you to be deliuered of And thus much of your no lesse ridiculous then impious iestes against the authority of the Church 21. After your light skirmish with Scoffes followeth a graue battery of the Churches custome to pray for soules in Purgatory with the Canō of Scriptures (d) Lett. a pag. 80. vsque ad 93. by which you will proue her doctrine in this point to be a Satanicall figment disgracefull vnto the great mercy of God euacuating the Crosse of Christ The places by you alleadged are many but either so triuiall and knowen togeather with the Catholikes answeres or else so ridiculously applied wrung wrested to your purpose that their very sound is able to breake a learned mans head and make him scratch where it doth not itch for want of an answere To giue some few examples What say you (e) pag. 86 shall not Hel gates preuaile against vs and shall Purgatoryes muddy wall hedg vs in Hath the soule of Christ gon downe into the nethermost Hell yet made no passage through the suburbes of Hell Hath he bound the strong Man that he should not harme vs and will he now torment vs himselfe or set we know not whō to do it Thus you Who will not wonder that Purgatoryes wals fall not to the ground with the storme of these your windy interogations shall I make the Logicall Analysis of your Rhetoricall Arguments They be three Ethymens I think The first the gates of hell shall not prauaile against the Church ergo there is no Purgatory The second the soule of Christ went down to the nethermost Hell ergo no Purgatory can be found The third Christ bound the strong Man and took his fortresse ergo Purgatory must vanish away 22. I think Aristotle would be grauelled in these argumēts to find the Mediū to ioyne your extremes togeather For what force hath Christs binding the strong Man that he may not harme his children to proue that God may not chastize them for their sins either by himselfe or another in this world or in the next as he pleaseth when they haue don amisse and committed lesser offences that deserue his lighter displeasure When you say that Hell gates shall not preuaile against vs it is hard to ghesse who those your vsses are Perhaps you meane the Elect Predestinate among whom you number your selfe Let it be so Can you deny but many of your Predestinate and Elect are for robbing and stealing and other such crimes locked vp in London Goales what shall not Hell-gate preuayle against them and shall the wall of a prison mue them vp hath the soule of Christ gon downe into the nethermost Hell and made no passage through New-gates Limbo where sometimes your elect are kept Hath he bound the strong man that he should not harme and shall now a hangman put thē to death You perceaue I hope the vanity of your inferences 23. Let vs heare you preach againe and build a ladder for your elect to passe without Purgatory into Heauen They that dy in the faith say you (f) p. 100 haue peace towardes God they that haue peace towards God are iustified by Christ they that are iustified by Christ are free from the Law and being free from the Law quis accusabit who shall lay any thing to their charge Thus you dispute Where I could lay both folly and falshood to your charge but seing your Protestāt faith freeth you from the Law both of Reason consciēce quis accusabit who dareth accuse you though you write neither wise nor true word I could cast your Elect into Hell from the first step of your ladder For they that dy in the faith haue not peace towards God except their faith be ioyned with good workes S. Iohn (g) Apoc. 14. giuing the reason why the Saintes rest after life saith Opera enim illorum sequuntur illos which you English for their works follow them euen at the heeles But your Protestant faith is so light footed or light headed rather to belieue you shal be saued your charity so heauy heeled to do the good works by which men must be saued that an eternity of torments may passe before your workes ouertake your faith 24. I might also fling them downe from the highest step of all where you say they are free from the Law if you vnderstand it in Luthers sense (h) Tom. 1. Ep. Lat. ep 3● ad Philippū that though they commit whoredomes or murthers a thousand tymes aday they need not care the bloud of Christ freeth them from the lawe doth not this doctrine togeather with the Authour deserue to be flung into the lowest Hell But if you vnderstand freedome from the law in the Catholick sense that the spirit of Christ maketh that yoke easie and the burden light that in the spirit of loue we may keep the law with great ease as S. Iohn saith (i) 1. Ioan. 5. his commandemcnts are not hard I dare say your Protestants faith hath litle of that spirit that dilateth the heart to runne the way of Gods precepts (k) Psalm 118. that it will neuer be able to get vp this ladder And let thē be indeed iust let them be Saints that keepe the law you obiect that against them that doth cleerely proue a Purgatorie for them in the next life Yea say you but they haue some drosse to
varnished her wrincled deformityes with faire places of Scripture as is your Protestant practice you would not now be to learne were your knowledge in Ecclesiasticall Hystoryes equall to your skill in Poeticall fables Thus you fight with your text against your margent with your margent against your text with both against the truth nay sometymes your Muse is so madde that in a Poeticall fury she not only crosseth your text but also woundeth your honour Such are the verses you bestow on your Indian weed (d) pag. 38. foeda Tobacciferi quid vult contagio fumi Praeter inauditam per tua membra luem which verses may giue a shrewd suspition that you who haue byn a great friend therof are tainted with that infamous disease 12. But Syr the Learning with want wherof I charged your Letter is neyther Parnassian nor Poeticall nor prophane but sacred holy diuine which not Apollo but Christ teacheth water which not Helicon but Scripture yieldeth gotten not by light familiarity with sacred sisters but by diligent exact reading of Holy Fathers in whose writings what a strāger you are this my Letter will sufficiētly discouer It will appeare that you reuile the learned muses of the Christian Church whome you neuer read the doctrines which they most clearly deliuer you dare affirme were not taught but by Heathens Hobgoblius the interpretations they deriue from the fōtaine of Scripture you say were fecht from the pit of Hell These things shall be made cleare in the Chapters that follow now to dispach all your toyes before we enter into more serious matter I will shew the vanity of your weake assaults against my Treatise which you seeke to disgrace that the comparison of your pouerty with my (e) pag. 11. nullity may purchase you the title of mediocrity You tearme my booke a (f) pag. 5. little pretty Pigmey yet like one besieging a stronge fortresse you ride thrice about it seeking where you may make a breach to enter battering the lines therof first with flies then with fyes finally with lyes 13. First you search how often I haue named the fly or spider (g) pag. 12. noting in your margent that those two creatures one with the other haue beene forteene tymes put into my whole treatise together charging the same with soloecismes incongruities of speach iesting at a parenthesis which you call iobbing in my first sentence that many a good mans dogge say you hath broken his leg ouer a lesse stile I must confesse sir I doe not bumbast my bookes with your fustian phrases nor builde my stile as you do of strange trees cut from forraine forrests that sure I am none will acknowledge your language to be English except you get a Parliament to naturalize it My drift in writing is not to bee admired but vnderstood which makes mee not sticke to vtter my mind rather in a crabbed then a new created phrase thinking it lesse harme that a cauelling curre pricke his foote then any learned man breake his head To climbe vnto my meaning I am more curious that my doctrine bee true then my speach smooth thinking the booke written in a stile good inough when wordes are so laide in order lines drawne in such compasse that they keep iust proportion with their center to wit truth towardes which I did presuppose the hartes of those worthy Gentlemen vnto whome I wrote did so mainly incline that the thornes of my phrases had it beene more crabbed thē one iobbing parenthesis can make it would not hold them backe from perusing my Treatise Neyther can I say that therein I haue beene deceiued of my hope 14. But I haue bene you say h for want of a good mydwife fiue yeares in trauaile with my lisping Pigmey wheras you whelped in few months your snarling puppye to which I might answere that a hastie bich bringeth forth blind whelps The seeliest birds are soonest flush (i) Sanctius his animal mentisque capacius altae Natures perfectest worke in many yeares arriueth vnto mature ripenes Minerua's fruitfull plant is long a growing wheras many barren trees spring vp a pace Glauca salix properat sed multùm tardat oliua My fortune is not like yours to haue still a good midwyfe at hand the smoake of your chimney inuiting learned Ministers to your table who as you seeme to confesse (k) p. 61. lend you their helping-hand in the prompt deliuerie of your Impes Wherin you compare your selfe to Iupiter who was faine to send for Vulcan his hatchet before Pallas could come into the world without the help of these Vulcās their sharp hatchets that hewed it out of your head you might perchance haue bene more yeares in building your faire Pallas then I spent on my litle Pinnace though those that know me can tell that after I seriously vndertook the task I was not about it so many months as yow name yeares In busines of this nature I desire to make no more hast then good speed Sat citò si sat bene The thing is dispatched soone that is perfourmed well None are more subiect to shamefull falles then such as ride post as your cursorie lines seeme to doe in the slippery veyne of writing 15. I know the Fathers eye is a partiall ●udge in the beautie of his owne Childe yet you giue me good hope that my Creatures will not seeme deformed where learning with indifferencie shall passe her censure seeing your curious and carping sight which the least flye could not escape hath not bene able to shew therin any true fault Were not Canon-shot wanting to batter the sides of my Pinnace the substance of my discourse your (l) puerilis sane augusti pectoris reprehensio Arnob. l. 1. con gentes childish squibbs would not flye so fast at the saile of my stile you that accuse me of leaden art could you haue found in my answere leaden sentences to haue made bulletts against me you would not haue sought to cracke my credit with fourteen flyes with solaecismes incongruities of speach Sure I am the most iudicious Censurers esteeme some few such seeming faults not to be (m) vt facit factem naeuus quod dicitur venustiorē sic vitia quaedam orationis audiunt figurae ornamenta blemishes but rather ornaments in the purest writers both of the Latin and Grecian language The stile is childish which still feareth the rod not daring to depart one sillable from the rules of Grammar neither would you be so sollicitous about a Solaecisme were not the terrour of Eaton schoole still fresh in your memorie As in a consort of sweet voyces a discord now and then doth make the musick more pleasing so the (n) solaecismi sunt apud politissimos vtruisque l●nguae worthyest writers haue left some iobbs passe in their workes which do rather delight then offend a Iudicious reader Thus might I defend solaecismes and incongruities of speach which yet you
to eternize my memory I should not match my selfe with cōtēptible aduersarys by whose ouerthrow profit that eternall may accrew vnto them small praise redound to my selfe by the conquest of scoulding and feminine writers (e) Nullum aut memorabile nomen Foeminea in paena est 29. That the Ladies liberall purse-promises hired me to write is so base a surmise and doth so smell of the trencher that if I may without your displeasure I will rather thinke it the suggestion of some hungrie minister or mercinarie Lecturer then the conceipt of a Knight If I finde no greater stoppe in my race to heauen then the gathering vpp of goulden-apples I shall not need much to feare the loosing of the goale I am sure if you know me well you would be loth the mony you lately made of your woods should haue no more watchfull custody then my thoughts would affoard euen vnto greater summes which education hath made ouer proud to stoope to such base cares Manie that haue more conuersed with me then you haue done will thinke some of your Ministers more skilfull in taking other mens purses then I am in keeping my owne I am content with the inexhaust treasure of his Prouidence who feedeth the Birds of the ayre and clotheth the Lillies of the fielde which doth assure me I shall not want when perhaps your (f) pag. 65. competent patrimonie may be wasted 30. The Lady you glance at as giuing me first encouragement (g) p. 22. to write I neuer saw her nor receiued message from her nor was a pennie richer by her whilst she liued or poorer by her death who died in the Catholike faith as I expected as I haue heard a Knight though Protestāt yet of better credit then your selfe that was present with her not many houres before her death auouch though your Snarling Cerberus seemeth to barke at her ghost as if without Purgatorie it had gone to your Protestāt heauen But the short is your conscience is so tender as you blot out your owne coniectures both against the quick and dead without any care of truth or feare of sinne THE SECOND CHAPTER THAT THE BOOKES OF THE MACHABEES WHERIN Is taught our Catholike doctrine concerning Purgatory is Canonicall Scripture against the Falshood both of the Letter and Counter-snarle NOvv hauing stopped the mouth of your rayling Cerberus I may the more boldly suruey your Hell or Letter against Purgatory to feare me from the discouery of the folly and falshood wherof your Counter-snarle was written You bragge (a) pag. 27. that amongst all you wrote in an hundreth and fourteene pages I haue only a spite at one leafe which lyes in the heart of the letter Lyes in the hart Against what should truth the friēd of truth beare greater hatred specialy those lyes being grosse and inexcusable corruptions of the most learned of the auncient Fathers cōcerning a point of highest importance to wit the Canonicall Authority of the booke of Machabees where Purgatory and other pointes of Catholyke doctrine which you peremptorily deny are clearely proued If lying killeth the soule as the Holy-Ghost saith (b) Sap. 1. Os quod mentitur occidit animam your leaues that haue lyes in their heart what are they but a dead letter 2. Wherefore I will begin the examination of your letter with that leafe you tearme the hart therof Which I proued in my Treatise most false and rotten not conteyning so much as one true lyne whereof I wrote in this sort (c) Ouerthrow p. 133. And here by occasion of S. Augustine and the booke of Machabees I must giue M. Crashaw warning that in proofe of his assertion he bring not such testimonies as are the three Syr Edward Hoby alledgeth out of S. Augustine to proue that he reiected the Machabees ignorantly and impudently corrupted not by Syr Edward himselfe I cannot thinke so dishonorably of men of his calling but by his Trencher-school-maister or some mercinarie lecturer perchance euen by M. Crashaw himselfe who is great in the bookes of this credulous Knight whome they make flye hoodwinkd to catch flyes which if I pull off that he may see how they abuse him I hope he will take it in good part 3. These were my words then which shew a double falshood of your Snarler first it is false that I absolutly accused M. Crashaw as the Authour of those corruptiōs which yet you auouch (d) pag. 56. insteed of perhaps by M. Crashaw making me say yea by M. Crashaw himself for though I did as I might specially suspect him whose desire to deceaue was well knowne vnto me yet I neither did nor durst so peremptorily affirme knowing that manie others besides him may vse that coolening art Secondly you say that I tearmed you notorious falsificatour (e) pag. 32. which was farre from my thoughts and further from my pen. wherwith I did fence your head from that blow The truth is your vnsauourie Letter is so sweet to your tast● distempered with selfe-conceipt that out of feare some ministers should lurch you you greedily put euerie sillable therof into your owne mouth though it be dressed in the sower sawce of manifest falshood rather will you be thought a false corrupter of soe graue a Father then not the true father of that false brat Had it bene any discredit to haue confessed those quotations were by some minister suggested vnto you Your valiant Writer and Deane D. Morton was he not driuen by his aduersarie to acknowledg that he had taken some corrupted testimonies of our Authours Vide his paramble to a further Encounter vpon the credit of Io. Stocke or R. C Why should that taking authoritys in grosse be thought a blemish in a Knight which was esteemed tolerable yea laudable in a Doctour Or why should you snarle at me for deuising in your defence such an honorable excuse that had you stood vnto it you might both haue layd your falshoods vpon another as that Doctour did and yet haue bene ranked as he is amongst your Protestāts famous authours the marke your ambitious penne aymed at 4. Let it be whose it please a Ministers or a Minstrells Child in the defence therof you vtter so manie new fooleries and falshoods that I make no doubt but the Reader of this my letter if those corruptions were yours will confesse that you haue greater strength of malice to beget falshood then store of witt to mantaine it You say (f) p. 27. that like a Spider-catcher I trauaise my ground with a goodly florish as if I meant with the weake Goddesses to bind Iupiter but if I bring not some Briareus to assist me it will not be long before I be out of breath This is so mystily spoken as I vnderstand it not I dare not say it is an high mysterie or a soaring Birde least you flout me with well flowen Buzzard (g) p. 21. If by Iupiter you meane your selfe and by
declared a third reason that your spite against our Miracles forceth your Doctors to ioyne against ancient Christians and Catholike Fathers with Infidels and Heretickes and to deny and deride the same Miracles they did Your Osiander sayth (k) Cent. 4. p. 326. Diaboli fimulata fuga voluerunt vulgi Superstitionem confirmare that the Diuells vanishing away at the name of Christ and signe of the Crosse made by Iulian frighted by his suddaine appearance in a fearfull shape was counterfaite to bring in the superstitious worship of the same as though it had force to driue away Diuells wherein he doth shake handes with Iulians Magitians who likewise would haue it a voluntary not forced flight of that memorable Miracle of the buried corps of the Martyr Babilas and of the Diuels forced confession that he could not giue answere in his Idoll by reason of Babilas being so neere which S. Chrysostome (l) l. 4. cōt Gentiles so much vrgeth against Infidels The same Author with whō your Centuristes ioyne (m) Cent. 4. col 1446. sayth (n) Cent. 4. p. 377. Responsū haud dubiè à Satana ideo datum vt paulatim cultū Idololatri cū Reliquiarū in Ecclesiam inueheret that it was an answere giuen by the Diuell without doubt to bring into the Church the idolatrous worship of Reliques 30. But what need I speak of particuler Miracles in general of all the Miracles done at the Reliques by the Intercession of Martyrs which were so many as Theodoret writeth (o) l. 8. aduersus Graecos their Tēples ouer the world no lesse in the primitiue Church then now were full of tables pictures of handes feet eyes heads other partes of the body hung vp as tokens of miraculous cures obteyned by the Martyrs intercessions These Miracles Theodoret vrgeth against Infidelles wherof S. Chrysostome saith (p) Sentētiae nostrae abundè fidem faciūt quo tidiana quae à Martyribus eduntur Miracula lib. 4. cont Gentes that the Miracles done by Martyrs abundantly suffice to witnes the truth of Christianity Of those Miracles I say M. Robert Abbots (q) Demonstr 1. Antichr c. 11. pag. 223. Plané superstitiosum est non nisi spuma veteris Ecclesiae blusheth not to write that the primitiue practice was superstitious and those Miracles the froath of the ancient Church of which sayth he the Babiloniā Venus was bred that afterward brake forth into all manner of abhominable fornication Thus they reiect the Miracles by which Christianity was bred in mens hartes many Countryes conuerted to Christ the Church of God enlarged ouer the Earth which Church they must grant was a Venus bred of foame and froath What writing is intemperate if this be sober What can be blasphemy against the holy Ghost if this be not To assigne the Miracles by which the world was made Christian to the Diuell making his foame and froath the seed of Christianity 31. The fourth reason is the impiety of this deuise which I touched before For this conceipt doth much impaire both the loue of God in his seruantes and his feare in his enemies seing neyther the one may expect from him miraculous helpes nor the other dread extraordinary punishments The Diuell only in this age must rule the rost and be thought the Author of all wonders If God when Hereticks blaspheme his Mother and play with her nose strike their tongues out of their heades and their best noses from their faces Heresy teacheth them to turne their hartes that want tongue their faces without noses against heauen and call the Authour of that miracle Diuell So that if Atheists can keep themselues friendes with the Diuell they need not by this doctrine greatly feare Gods miraculous power Our aduersaryes themselues namely M. Crashaw (r) Iesuits Ghospell do confesse that such is the Atheisme and prophanes of men that neuer since the plāting of the Ghospell Miracles were more needfull might they be expected Why may they not be expected if they be so needfull is Gods power or his loue lesse towards mākind since Luthers preaching If his prouidence neuer faileth his children in so weighty affaire as marriage as the same M. Crashaw (ſ) Life of Galeatius c. 21. sayth why should they thinke the same defectiue in working Miracles so necessary to maintaine Religion against prophanesse Why should God be bound vnder paine of being thought Anti-Christ not to work Miracles 32. Were this true we might pardon the same M. Crashaw for saying (t) Iesuits Ghos pag. 30. 31. that we allwayes paint Christ in our Churches as a child but the Virgin like a woman and a commanding Mother that we say that all the Miracles be hers as though he being a child could not or in the presence of his Mother would not worke Miracles He might add with as great truth that we say that he dare not for shee being a shrew would rappe him on the fingers did he stretch out his hand to do any Myracle before her But though these be senseles slanders yet were your Protestant fancy concerning Miracles true the B. Virgin might seeme to haue reason to hold Christes handes from doing any Miracles whilst he is a Child least you make him Antichrist when he commeth to be a Man She is wise to worke all the Miracles her selfe whom her Sex may warrant from being thought the man of sin Yet B. Virgin be not ouer bould with Miracles least they giue vs a Pope Mary to be Anti-Christ as they haue done a Pope Ioan. 33. But is it not a Miracle thinke you that men endued with reason should let such lewd lies passe to the Print Do we neuer paint Christ as a perfect Man redeeming the world vpon the Crosse and Iudging the same by fyre Are not these pictures frequent in our Churches And when Christ is represented in the Virgins armes she is painted not as a commaunding but as a Mother adoring her Son that by her countenance one may see that whilst her brests gaue him suck her hart did offer him the frankencense of prayer as to her God Do we not make the Miracles of our Church rather his thē hers done at her request but by his power Which Miracles she doth aske not for her owne honour but for his to establish in mens harts that fayth (u) Miracula Martyres faciunt vel potiùs illis orantibus Deus vt fides illa proficiat qua eos non Deos esse Nostros sed Vnum Deum nobiscum habere credimus Aug. l. 22 de Ciuit. c. 10. which doth belieue that not she but he is God and she only honorable for his sake and saued by his blood holy by his grace glorious by his mercy powerfull by his hand Why should we not thinke that the Diuell doth hate this faith How can any Christian thinke that the Diuells do Miracles to confirme so pious doctrine 34. And this is my fifth Argument to proue our