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A14366 A moste necessary treatise of free wil not onlye against the Bapistes, but also against the Anabaptistes, which in these our daies, go about to renue the detestable heresies of Pelagius, and of the Luciferians, whiche say and affirm, that we be able by our own natural strength to fulfil the law and commaundementes of God. Made dialoge wyse by Iohn Veron, in a manner word by woorde, as he did set it forth in his lectures at Paules. VĂ©ron, John, d. 1563. 1561 (1561) STC 24684; ESTC S101311 58,715 178

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PHILALETHES The place that they aleadged out of Ecclesiasticus maketh nothinge for them for how the place of Ecclesiasticus ought to be vnderstāded it oughte to be vnderstanded of man being in the fyrst estate of his creation and beynge in his originall innocency and righteousnesse And because that it shall not bee thoughte that I bringe any thing of mine owne heade ye shall heare what Saynte Augustine sayethe whose wordes are these free wyll before the fall was an vprighte free wyll De cāticonouo ca. viii before whiche fyer and water was layed of God and the fyrste manne dyd reatche hys hande to whyche he woulde hee dyd choyse fier and forsoke water See the ryghteous iudge the same whiche manne beinge free dyd choyse he dyd receaue he woulde haue euyll and the same did folowe him Contra fortu Disputa xi And in an other place these be also hys woordes I saye that fre wyl was in that man which was created fyrst For he was so made that nothinge coulde withstande hys wyll if he would haue kepte Goddes commaundementes but after that hee hadde synned throughe free wyll hee dyd cast vs all that come of hys stocke into necessitye And therfore he writeth in an other place In encherid ad lauren Ca. xxx De verbis aposer ii that manne vsinge not well free wyll did bothe lose it him self Againe It is true sayeth he that manne when he was made did receaue greate strength of free wyll but he did lose it through synne These autorityes of Sainte Augustine doo sufficientely declare how the place that they aleaged oute of Ecclesiasticus oughte to be vnderstanded For there doubtelesse the wise manne dothe speake of man as he was first created in the estate of innocency and righteousnes and not as he was wyth his posteritye after hys fall De eccledogm ca. xxxii whereby as Saynte Augustine saithe all menne haue loste theyr naturall possibilitye or ablenesse and theyr naturall or originall innocencye And so ought the doctoures that they dyd bryng in for them selues to be vnderstanded for they do all speake of manne as he was afore his fall Whyche thynge appeareth to be moste true by the saying of Saint Hierome Iero in xxiii cap. Iere. who wrytinge vppon Ieremy saithe plainly these wordes And therefore the heretykes be wonte to promyse felicity and to open vnto sinners the kingdom of heauen saying Thou maist folowe the maiestye of God and be without synne syth that thou hast receyued the power or strength of free wyll and the vnderstandyng of the lawe whereby thou arte able to obtayne what so euer thou wylte And so the saide Heretykes do deceyue the poore symple and ignoraunt personnes and specially women whyche beynge loden with sinnes are ledde to and froe with euerye winde of doctrine deceiuynge by theyr flattery al them that geue eares vnto them Heare ye see that saint Ierome dothe call them all Heretikes that saye that menne be able by theyr free wyll to do bothe good and euyll Wheruppon we maye well conclude that in his Epistle ad Ctesiphon●em Existo ad ctesiphon tem he dothe speake of the fyrste estate of manne that he was in afore hys transgressyon and fall And as for Chrisostome although he dothe exceade in extollynge the naturall strengthe of manne hom i. in aduen yet dothe he confesse plainelye that euerye manne is not onely of hys owne nature a synner but also that he is synne altogether Whereby he doth ouerthrow what so euer he dothe wryte or saye in anye other place in the commendacyon of free wyll and of oure natural strengthe EVTRAPELVS That must be mooste true For if accordynge to his owne sayinge we be not only sinners of our owne nature but also synne all together where is oure gaye payncted free wyll become Ioh. viii Dothe not the truthe hym selfe saye that euery man that sinneth is a seruaunte of synne Againe is it not wrytten that of whome so euer a manne is ouercome ii Pet. ii vnto the same he is in boundage It appeareth then by thys that we are verye farre from that liberty and fredome that they doe so muche boaste of DYDIMVS Wherefore did then these ancient fathers and wryters of the Catholike churche extoll so muche the free will and naturall strengthe of manne Home lii For Chrisostome hath alwaies in his mouth Let vs bring that whiche is oure own God wyl supply the residue Where vnto Ierome doth agree saying Nostrum est incipere Dia. iii. con Pelagianes dei autem perficere Nostrum est offerre quod possumus illius implere quod non possumus That is to saye It is our part for to begin and it is Gods parte for to performe It is our parte to offer that whiche we can and it is his part to supply or fulfyll that that we can not PHILALETHES It is moste playne Why the aunciant fathers spake so of fre wil that they dyd seme to alowe it that they did it to thys end that they might driue awaye all slouggishnesse from menne Which thing they that came after did not perceiue And therefore they did attribute so muche to the free will and naturall strength of man that the fre mercy and grace of God was in a manner vtterlye forgotten DyDIMVS Howe can it be proued that they did tt onlye for that purpose PHILALETHES It is easy to be proued For if they shoulde meane as they write they shoulde directly be against the plain scriptures and worde of God and also against them selues Fyrst and foremost the LORD him selfe saieth I wyll hencefourth curse the earth no more for mans sake Gen. viii For the ymagination of mannes heart is euyll euen from the very youth of him And Moses for to declare Deu. xxix how vnable we be of oure selues to vnderstande heauenlye thinges doth saye plainlye these wordes Ye haue seene all that the Lorde did before youre eyes in the lande of Egipte vnto Pharao and vnto and all his seruaunts Thine eies haue sene these great tokens and wonders And yet vnto this day hath not the Lorde geuen you a harte that vnderstandeth eies that see eares that heare What could he saye more excepte he shuld call vs blocks and stones And in Ezechiel the Lorde sayeth A new heart Eze. xxvi wyl I geue you and a newe spirit wyl I put in to you As for that stony hearte I wyll take it oute of youre bodye and geue you a fleshy hart I will geue you my spirit amonge you and cause you to walke in my commaundements to kepe my lawes and to fulfyll them This place onely doth sufficientely teache vs that excepte oure stony heartes be taken away from vs and flesshy that is to saye obediente hartes geuen vs in stede of them yea and a newe spirit put in to vs whiche shoulde worke in vs an obedience towards the Lordes commaundementes we are