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A06346 A treatie of the churche conteining a true discourse, to knowe the true church by, and to discerne it from the Romish church, and all other false assemblies, or counterfet congregations / vvritten by M. Bertrande de Loque ... ; and faithfully translated out of French into English, by T.VV. Loque, Bertrand de.; T. W. 1581 (1581) STC 16812; ESTC S123131 175,246 422

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is alwayes necessarie in the Church The fourth reason Iesus Christ hath giuen and established the ministers of the worde Ephe. 4.11 for the worke of the ministerie till wee all meete together in the vnitie of faith and knowledge of the son of God vnto a perfecte man and vnto the measure of the age of the fulnes of Christ that is to say till that Christ bee perfect in vs and haue in vs his ful grouth and increase But wee can not obtaine such perfection vnto the end of the world 2. Cor. 13.9.10 at what time God shall be all in all For as Saint Paul saith Wee knowe in part and we prophecie in parte But when that which is perfect is come then that which is in part shal be abolished Wherefore it followeth that Iesus Christ hath giuen and placed the ministers of the word for the worke of the ministerie vntill the ende of the worlde and then God shall be all in all These reasons are sufficient for this present to teach and proue that the holy ministerie is continually requisite and necessarie in the Church as indeede the Lorde hath for our good saluation established the same to abide in al ages therein applying and framing him selfe to our weaknes which is so great we being corrupted thorough sinne that without this means meet and agreeable to our nature we could not be well instructed in the pointes of our saluation For if God should speake vnto vs in his maiestie we could not at any hande away with or abide his presence as we may see it by those that when he was minded to publish and to giue his lawe the people thēselues being astonished Exod. 20.19 Deut. 5.28.29 with his greatnes maiestie said vnto Moses Talke thou with vs and we wil heare But let not the Lord talke with vs lest we dy And God accepting this their request saide vnto Moses I haue heard the wordes of the voice of this people which they haue spoken vnto thee they haue wel said al that they haue spokē Oh that there were such a heart in them to feare me and to keepe al my cōmandements alway that it might go well with them and with their children for euer Go say vnto thē returne into your tents but stand thou here with me and I wil tel thee all the cōmandements and the ordinances Deut. 5.30.31 and the lawes which thou shalt teach them that they may do them c. Wherefore God yelded vnto this people their request to wit that they might be taught by the ministerie of Moses And sithence that time it was yet his good pleasure to haue continued and that vnto the end this manner of instructing and teaching his Church by the ministerie of men which order men them selues did require and chose in so much that when God him selfe sent Iesus Christ his sonne Mark 1.38 Heb. 2.16 to preach the Gospell he appointed him to take vpon him not the nature of Angels but the seede of Abraham that he might be like vnto vs in all things yet without sinne And Christ him selfe ascending to heauen Act. 14.15 committed vnto his Apostles who were men as we the office charge to teach vs. And since that time this order hath continued and is common and ordinarie in the Church and can not be separated from the Church to wit that God doth teach vs by the ministerie of men as by his instruments which are most profitable Act. 8.27 c. familiar and easie to vs. The Eunuch of Candace Queene of the Ethiopians read in his chariot the holie scriptures and no doubt the Lorde could verie well haue instructed him in the mysteries of faith by the secrete vertue and power of his holie spirit but yet he delighted rather to haue it done by the ministerie of Phillip liked better therof Act. 10.1.2 c. Cornelius the Centurion to the end he might be more fully instructed in the knowledge of the Gospel was sent backe as it were from the Angell to Saint Peter He shall tell thee saith the Angel what thou oughtest to doe Yea Saint Paul him selfe although that the Lord had spoken vnto him with his owne mouth was yet notwithstanding sent backe as it were to Ananias Act. 9.3.4 c. that he might be instructed and receiue the holie Ghost and be baptised Wherefore they that doe cast from them or disallowe the ministerie of the Church hanging vpon and looking for Angelicall and diuine reuelations to instruct them doe not onely deceiue them selues but also violate and breake the order which GOD hath established in his Church for our saluation Now there remaineth to see and know howe much we ought to deferre and giue to the ministerie for if they be deceiued which despise it and do not their duetie in that behalfe which they ought they are deceiued also which attribute or giue ouer much vnto it Wherefore we say that we ought not to giue to it either more or lesse than that which belongeth thereto that as it is good reason that the authoritie and credite thereof should be reserued vnto it selfe safe and sound so we ought to take good heede of this that we pull not from God the honour which is due vnto him For this purpose and point we must diligently obserue and marke this distinction Sometimes man is compared with God when the minister is mentioned or spoken of and then it is saide that he is not able to doe any thing at all and that his labour or worke is altogether vnprofitable As whē Saint Paul saith 1. Cor. 3.7 Neither is he that planteth any thing neither is he that watereth but God that giueth the increase For what can man haue in himself if he would enter into this to part or diuide a matter betwene God him selfe we must therefore take heede of this not so much as once to thinke that the vertue and power of the holie Ghost should be tied and bound to the ministerie of men as though without it God could not worke in mens hearts euen as shall please him selfe as we see that they of the Romish church suppose and thinke as appeareth in this that they spare not to affirme that if a childe dye without baptisme administred by man it can not be saued on the other side that they which receiue the outward signes from the ministers handes receiue by and by the grace of God which is tied to these signes But God saith by his Prophetes That it belongeth to him Iere. 31.33 Ezech. 11.19 to write his lawe in mens harts to take away from them their stonie heartes Iere. 32.40 and to giue them heartes of flesh to renue within them a newe spirite to put his feare in their heartes Isai 43.25 that they should not depart from him Shortly That it is he alone to whome it belongeth to pardon sinnes Luk. 5.21 and to saue And we
or seeke newe places to offer their sacrifices oblations in but to come and to staye them selues within the Court of the tabernacle or of the temple Iesus Christ woulde not despise this place But wee knowe that whatsoeuer corruption was there no faithfull man was inforced to cleaue or sticke to anye superstitious manner or custome which is not practised at this day in the Church of Rome For as all there is of superstition and manifest idolatrie so they will constraine and enforce the faithful by fire and sworde to consent thereto and to pollute and defile themselues therewith against their owne consciences and gods expresse forbidding Lastly to what point did Iesus Christ bring the Church of Ierusalem when the high Priestes Scribes and Pharisees shewed them selues great madde men not doing their duties towardes it did hee not take his vineyard from these husbandmē who did not giue him the fruites whiche belonged vnto him and committed the same vnto others that is to his Apostles and their successors to yelde him fruite in their seasons Euen so likewise hath the Lorde done therewith in the Popedome He hath not destroyed his Church but hath only chaunged the estate thereof taking it out of the hand and guiding of the Bishoppes and Popishe Priestes and placing it againe vnder the gouernement and charge of other guiders and leaders who can see more clerely and be of better trust as it is spoken in Saint Mathewe Matt. 22 4● vnder the similitude or parable of the vineyarde To conclude if they aske what shall become then of our predecessors who died in the faith of the Romish Church are they condemned I aunswere that wee leaue the iudgement thereof vnto GOD for it belongeth not to vs to determine iudge of that which is hidden from vs which indeed passeth our knowledge and calling It is verie true Ioh. 3.18.36 that the holy scripture pronounceth that they which die without the faith of Christ are damned and we cannot but say amen and giue our consent to this Neither serueth it to any purpose to alledge ignoraunce and to say that it excuseth the sinner before GOD For the scripture is plaine and manifest therein Luk. 12.47.48 The seruaunt saith Iesus Christ that knew his masters will prepared not him selfe neither did according to his will shall be beaten with many strippes But he that knewe it not and yet did commit thinges worthie of stripes shall be beaten with fewe stripes Also Matt. 15.14 if the blinde leade the blind they shal fall both into the ditch Saint Paul saith also As many as haue sinned without the lawe Rom. 2.12 2. Thess 1.6 shall perishe also without the lawe and as many as haue sinned within the lawe shall bee iudged by the law And againe it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you and to you which are troubled rest and deliuerance with vs when the Lorde Iesus shall shewe himselfe from heauen with his mightie Angels in flaming fire rendering vengeance vnto them that do not know God and which obey not vnto the Gospell of our Lorde Iesus Christe which shall bee punished with euerlasting destruction c. These places doe openly inough declare what is the ende of those that die without faith although they bee ignorant for their ignorance can not excuse them nor serue them for a cloake or couering to absolue and set thē free from the iudgement of God for confirmation proofe wherof wee may alledge also and put downe that which is written in Leuiticus Leui. 4.2 touching the offering commaunded by God for the sinnes which were committed through ignorance Lo what wee haue to say for one point But to that which remaineth touching our fathers and predecessors God might well shewe mercie vpon them at the end of their dayes making himselfe knowne vnto them by the secrete vertue and power of his holy spirite and putting it into their harts to beleue in Iesus Christ his sonne that so they might be saued For God is almightie to saue his owne people yea without vsing any of these meanes which he is accustomed cōmonly ordinarily to vse to plant faith in vs and to ingraue it in our harts to our owne saluation And this is S. Cypriā his answere touching those that die in some false opinions Cypri lib. 2. epist 3. If some one of our predecessors saith hee either by ignorance or through simplicitie hath not kept and helde that which the Lord hath taught vs to doe by his example and authoritie the mercie of the Lord may pardon him But wee cannot helpe the same being admonished instructed by him Behold what S. Cyprian pronounceth herein It is true that hee speaketh properly touching the matter of the holy supper but nothing letteth but that wee may applie his speach generally to the matter of all the other articles of the faith The IX CHAP. Of the degrees of ministers in the Church where mention is made of the orders of the popish clergie and of the offices and dueties of true pastors Matt. 9.38 WE haue sene and heard heretofore that it apperteineth vnto the Lorde of the haruest to sende foorth workemen into his haruest For it belongeth not to any what giftes soeuer he hath receiued from the Lord to thrust himselfe into the worke of the ministerie vnlesse he be lawefully called thereto Ephes 4.11 Now the Apostle Saint Paul writing to the Ephesians sheweth vs what workemen the Lorde hath sent into his haruest that is to say Apostles prophetes Euangelistes Pastors and doctors Apostles Touching the Apostles they were chosen immediately from Christe and their office was to sowe and spreade the Gospell abroad throughout all the world neither had any one of them any limites or borders set thē or some certaine Churches appointed to them Matt. 28.19 Matt. 10.2 Gal. 2.8 but Christ would that in euery part or place where so euer they came they should do their message before all peoples and nations Such were the twelue named in the Gospell to whome Saint Paule was added who was specially appointed to beare the name of Christ among the Gentiles Nowe bicause this degree of Apostles was instituted and ordained by God for the establishing of Churches those Churches being planted and established this name of Apostle ought not any more to be vsed among the ministers as to be giuen and communicated to them And yet we read that sometime it is taken generally in the scripture for a Pastor and preacher of the Gospell As Epaphroditus is called the Apostle of the Philippians Philip. 2.25 Act. 14.14 and Barnabas is named an Apostle Act. 14. Prophetes are distinguished into two sortes or orders Prophets Some were vnder the old Testament and in that time who being instructed and taught by a speciall reuelation from God did foretell things to come the other were in the newe Testament who in