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A84133 The Anabaptists ground-work for reformation: or, New planting of churches, that no man, woman, nor child, may be baptized, but such as have justifying faith, and doe make profession thereof, before, to the baptizer, found false, with all things depending thereon. As being contrary to the Scriptures, and to the examples of Christ and his Apostles, ... Proved by severall arguments. Whereunto one T.L. a principall baptizer, (and apostle in their account) hath given his answers. Unto which answers, replies are also made by I.E. and some arguments annexed, proving, that the children of all such beleevers as were baptized, and so received into the Church, might be baptized, and received also. With a brief declaration what the true reformation is, and shal be, farre above these Anabaptists, and all such carnall builders conceits. And who the two witnesses of God are, by whom chiefly it is to be performed. Imprimatut [sic]. Iames Cranford, Etherington, John, fl. 1641-1645.; Lamb, Thomas, d. 1686. 1644 (1644) Wing E3381; Thomason E50_2; ESTC R23515 28,610 37

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outward appearance and make it but a thinking or a conceiving or a knowing probably at the most which is no knowing at all for he will have it agree with that which he had said before in his answer to the fift argument these words The Apostles indeed might judge that those whom they conceived to have justifying faith according to probalitie might possibly be destitute of it according to certainty and so make it like this But there is no marvelling at T. L. herein for there be many that will concurre with him in this opinion of his because although every man hath the gift and can know and judge a good tree and a bad tree by their fruit and that certainly for a man cannot be said to know that to be which is not certainly so yet the gift of knowing the fruit of a man and the heart by the fruit the words which proceed from the good or evill treasure of his heart is not so common This gift is a speciall gift peculiar to the children of Wisedome onely For who did know and judge rightly of John the Baptist and of Christ by their fruit the words that proceeded out of their mouthes and justified that excellent wisedome from above which they spake and uttered but the children of wisedom as Christ saith But wisedome is justified of her children as Matth. 11.19 So here Matth. 7.16 Ye shall know them by their fruits Doe men gather grapes of thornes or figges of thistles Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evill fruit And concludes Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them Ye saith the Lord he doth not say every man nor the wise and prudent of the world but ye even they and onely they for whom he gave thankes unto God saying I thank thee O Father Lord of Heaven and Earth because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and hast shewed them to Babes c. Matth. 11.25 those whom he had a little before so often pronounced Blessed Matth. 5. and now in this place Mat. 7. fore-warneth them of false Prophets that should arise and come unto them in sheeps clothing but inwardly were ravening wolves such as if it were possible should deceive even the very elect and saith Ye shall know them by their fruit know them and that certainly otherwise it cannot be knowing neither could it availe them And if any man shall object the words of St. Paul against this where he saith What man knoweth the things of a man but the spirit of man which is in him Even so the things of God knoweth no man but the Spirit of God 1 Cor. 2. and say here the Apostle seemeth to make it a thing impossible for one man to know the things of another mans heart but his own spirit which is in him Even so the things of God c. To which I answer It is true the Apostle doth not onely seem but he saith it plainly as a thing whereof no man is ignorant For what man saith he knoweth the things of a man c. But we are to consider his words that follow Now we have received saith he not the spirit of the world but the Spirit which is of God that we might know the things that are freely given us of God which things also we speak not in the words that mans wisedome teacheth but which the holy Ghost teacheth comparing spirituall things with spirituall things But the naturall man saith he receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishnes to him neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned But he that is spirituall judgeth all things yet he himselfe is judged of no man 1. Cor. 2.11 12 13 14. By which words the Apostle removeth the objection quite and sheweth that although it be true that the naturall man knoweth not nor can discern the things of man much lesse the things of God because they are spiritually discerned yet the spirituall man they that are spirituall having the Spirit of God the mind of Christ they can th●y both know God and Christ and the things of God by the words which proceed out of his mouth and they know also the things of man by the words that come forth of his mouth from the good or evill treasure of his heart for from out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speakes as Christ saith Luke 6.45 And so by their fruit they can and doe know them which the naturall man cannot possibly doe This is the rule that Christ hath given to his Church and chosen people the humble and meek who have received his Spirit whereby to know a false Prophet and also a true a false-hearted Christian brother and also a true when they discover their hearts by their words which some time or other they cannot but doe as Christ saith Matth. 7. But this is not the rule for outward baptisme as T. L. would make it Christ did not enjoyne his Apostles and Ministers thus to know and judge of the hearts of men before they baptized them Nay then they might as well lay their hands on them also before it in approbation of them which was alwayes performed after baptisme Neither did Philip so know and judge of the hearts of them of Samaria whom he baptized whereof Simon Magus was one yet he judged rightly of them all he saw and knew that they beleeved so farre in that kind as made them meet for outward baptisme even Simon Magus as well as the rest and did not lay his hands on any of them but left them so till their fruit might make them manifest But after some time had passed and that Peter was come to Samaria and having searched them and finding the hearts of some of them right in the sight of God he approving them laid his hands on them and they received the gift of the holy Ghost But finding the heart of Simon Magus to be otherwise he rejected him onely reproves him and bids him repent of his wickednesse c. So Peter tried them throughly and did not lay his hands suddenly on any of them according to which also Paul practised Acts 19.5.6 and so chargeth Timothy saying Lay hands suddenly on no man c. 1 Tim. 5.22 and so the order of these principles of Christ is set down and described Heb. 6.1 2. and so the Apostles and Elders in their time preached and practised according as Christ gave them example order and rule preaching as he did saying The Kingdome of God is at hand repent ye and beleeve the Gospel Mark 1.15 according to that which he spake Luke 24. And that repentance and remission of sinnes should be preached in his name among all Nations beginning at Jerusalem vers 47. For these are the first principles of Christ the doctrine of Baptismes which whosoever did beleeve assent unto and gladly receive became Disciples and were baptized with outward
baptized such of whom some fell away as also some of them did whom Christ baptized and some continued having obtained a more excellent pretious faith by a more excellent and more peculiar gift of of the Spirit as is evident by Ioh. 6.66 67 68 69. Act. 4.31 32 c. Acts 1.2 3. c. Act. 14.15 16 17 18.19.20 If Christ had intended to give a rule to his Ministers that they should baptize none but such as had justifying faith then doubtesse he having perfect knowledge would himselfe have baptized none but such onely and would have given straight charge to his Ministers as Paul did in another case to Timothy 1. Tim. 5.22 Lay hands suddenly on no man so unto them Beware that ye baptize no man suddenly but stay till he shew that pretious faith by his works and words of his mouth proceeding from the good treasure of his heart which is the fruit whereby ye shall know it and him also that his heart is purified by that faith and then baptize him If T.L. could shew such an example of Christ and rule for baptisme as this he might say something to his purpose otherwise nothing And as for his boast of refelling the agument I leave it to the reader to consider how he hath done it The second Argument If the Rule of Christ had been to baptize none but such Disciples as were to be judged to have justifying faith Then would not Christ have baptized any that he did not so judge of But Christ did baptize such as he did not so judge of Therefore that was not the rule The answer of T. L. I deny the Major Proposition because Christs knowledge was above the rule given to the Ministers The Reply of I. E. Here again T. L. makes Christs knowledge a ground for him to practise above the rule as he calls it given to the Ministers as if Christ were so unmercifull as to enjoyne his Ministers a rule to observe which he knew they could not and that himselfe though he could would not that he might by his knowledge give them a contrary example not for them to follow though hee knew they could but that they must necessarily either judge that to be which is not or that they were utterly ignorant of and so sinne not doing it of faith This is the consequence of T. L. his doctrine The third Argument If Christ or his Apostles had taken it for granted that all whosoever they baptized had before it eaten Christs flesh and drunk his blood beleeved in him unto justification and life had received his Spirit of adoption and so judged of them Then did they contradict their owne judgements in saying to some of them so soon after Except ye eate the flesh of the Sonne of Man and drink his blood yee have no life in you Ioh. 6.53 There be some of you that beleeve not Ioh. 6.64 He that hath not the Spirit of Christ the same is none of his Rom. 8.9 Some of you have not the knowledge of God c. 1 Cor. 15.34 I feare lest when I come I shall not find you such as I would c. 2 Cor. 12.20 21. But neither Christ nor his Apostles may be said to contradict their own judgements Therefore they did not so take it for granted nor so judge neither was it the rule The Answer of T. L. To which I answer first that some of your Scriptures quoted prove not your proposition because that although a man have justifying faith another may say unto him Except yee eate the flesh of the Sonne of Man and drink his blood ye have no life in you And this may be said to him also He that hath not the Spirit of Christ the same is none of his Secondly I answer that neither Christ nor his Apostles did require any to be baptized but such as did professe they had justifying faith and therefore if there were any contradiction it was in them that did professe to have justifying faith and had it not and not in Christ nor his Apostles Thirdly I answer That although Christ did not take it for granted nor so judge of all that were admitted to baptisme to have justifying faith when they were admitted because he had power to discerne above the rule given to the Ministers of Baptisme yet the Apostles did at the time when they were received to baptisme though afterward some did discover themselves destitute thereof And therefore it was the rule The Reply of I. E. To the first where T. L. denieth some of the Scriptures quoted to prove the proposition and allowing the rest he thereby grants the proposition proved but the places he excepts against prove it also For if Christ had so judged and taken it for granted then he would not himselfe have said Except yee eate the flesh of the Sonne of of Man and drink his blood ye have no life in you There be some of you that beleeve not Neither would Paul have said to one that he judged to have the Spirit of Christ and to be his as in the way of suspition He that hath not the Spirit of Christ the same is none of his For Paul did not judge when he judged upon seeming shewes or thinking but of knowledge upon sure evidence So that these places as well as the rest doe prove the Proposition true That if they had so judged as T. L. would have it then did they contradict their own judgements Secondly where he saith That neither Christ nor his Apostles did require any to be baptized but such as did professe to have justifying faith and so making the contradiction to lie in them that professed they had it and had it not T. L. here speaks as if indeed Christ and his Apostles did enjoyne the people to make such a profession when they were to be baptized else they might not be baptized and so enjoyne them to professe a lie and themselves to beleeve it and so judge upon their profession which is very false and wicked for any to speake or think Neither was Christ or his Apostles so unwise as to judge or conclude in their minds upon such an uncertain profession For although there were some that had justifying Faith were true Israelits such as worshipped God and wrought righteousnes as Nathanael and Cornelius the Eunuch Lydia c. who might give such testimony of that pretious peculiar faith as that although they were not yet so much as Disciples of Christ both Christ and his Apostles might and that truly so judge of them And when they had preached Christ now come and his Gospel unto them and they gladly receiving it they might baptize them which before they might not though they had justifying Faith and that they knew it Although I say these could give such a testimonie of that speciall faith as that not only Christ but also his Apostles after him could rightly judge of it yet was it not the rule for outward baptisme neither did they
baptisme and afterward they that attained to true repentance and remission of their sinnes through faith in his name and shewing forth the fruit thereof were approved And therfore Christ said unto some that beleeved on him in that common kind of beleeving If ye continue in my word then are ye my Disciples indeed and yee shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free Joh. 8.32 33. And again Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away and every branch that beareth fruit he purgeth it that it may bring forth more fruit He that abideth in me and I in him the same bringeth forth much fruit If a man abide not in me he is cast forth c. Ioh. 15. By all which it is manifest that such a beleeving on Christ as the former which onely maketh a man a Disciple fit for outward baptisme such a graffing into the vine availeth nothing if he attaine not to true repentance in his own heart and to the faith that worketh by love that bringeth forth good fruit from his heart he cannot be approved in the sight of God nor of his Church God will cut him off as a branch and withered Therfore I say it is no marvelling greatly at T. L. that he knoweth not how to judge righteous iudgement he being as well as many thousands more are destitute of those speciall peculiar graces and gifts of the Spirit whereby to know it and so iudge according to the Rule of Christ Matth. 7. Ye shall know them by their fruit And now I put a question to T.L. which is this That if without all contradiction the lesser is blessed of the greater as the Apostle saith Heb. 7.7 And that the Elders that were ordained in the Apostles time were ordained by the approbation and laying on of hands of the Apostles and Elders who were in those heavenly respects greater then they on whom they laid their hands Then where and who that greater is that did so ordain him I mean T. L. that placed him in the Chaire and gave him power to make Disciples baptize plant Churches and taught him so to iudge as he speaks If he cannot shew that greater like some of those before mentioned nor a greater then they that did so ordain him place him and give him authoritie and power to doe al those things If he cannot doe this I say then is he not so neere like the Apostle Peter as he professeth himselfe to be but sheweth himselfe to be a very bold presumptuous person in taking so much upon him and his sinne in this is greater then his opinion of ignorance concerning the Rule before spoken of of which with this I advise him to repent and so farewell Severall Arguments proving by necessary Consequence from the Scriptures that the little children of all such beleevers of the Gospel as may rightly according to the rule of Christ be received into the outward state of the Church by outward baptisme may also be baptized and received The first Argument IF it was a lawfull and requisite thing once in the time of the Law of Moses by the same Law for little children to be received into the outward state of the Church and so be distinguished from the heathen and uncircumcised people and that Christ hath been and is as faithfull in and over all his own House as Moses was in his and as gracious to little children as he Then it is a lawfull and requisite thing now in the time of the Gospel for little children to be received into the outward state of the Church and so be distinguished from the heathen and unbaptized But it was a lawfull and requisite thing then and Christ is as faithfull in his House and as gracious to little children as Moses Therefore it is a lawfull and requisite thing now in the time of the Gospel The second Argument If the last thing that could and did distinguish little children in the time of the Law from the heathen and uncircumcised was the circumcision in the flesh and that they were to have it And that the least thing that little children can have now in the time of the Gospel to distinguish them from the heathen and unbaptized is outward baptisme Then they are to have it as well as they were to have the other But the least thing that was then to distinguish little children from the heathen and uncircumcised was the circumcision in the flesh and the least thing that can now distinguish a little child from the heathen and unbaptized is outward baptisme Therefore as they were then to have that so they are now to have this The third Argument If the children of the Gentiles that became Proselytes in the time of the Law being circumcised and received into the Church of the Jewes were and might lawfully be circumcised and received also with their parents and so from generation to generation all one with the Iewes Then may now still lawfully the children of us Gentiles who having beleeved the Gospel and being baptized and received into the Church of Christians be baptized and received also and so from generation to generation But it was so then in the time of the Law with the Gentile Proselytes and their children Therefore it may lawfully be so now in the time of the Gospel with us Gentile Christians and our children The fourth Argument If outward baptisme doth as well as outward circumcision did set forth and signify the circumcision of Christ made without hands the circumcision of the heart in the putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the same circumcision of Christ and that little children were to receive that signe the outward circumcision Then little children are to have this signe outward baptisme it being the signe of the same circumcision of the heart made without hands But outward baptisme doth as well as outward circumcision did set forth and signifie the circumcision of Christ that of the heart made without hands in the putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the same circumcision of Christ as the Apostle Paul doth plainly declare Coloss 2.11 12 13. where hee giveth unto the circumcision of the heart which he calleth the circumcision of Christ the name Baptisme as it formerly had the name of Circumcision making baptisme and circumcision both one in respect of the thing signified Therefore as little children were to have that signe so they are to have this The circumcision of the heart being the token of the covenant which God made with Abraham and his seed of which seed all the faithfull Gentiles are part as Paul declareth Rom. 4.11 12 13 14 15 16 c. The fifth Argument If Christ did receive little children when they brought them unto him and take them in his armes and blesse them and that this was a greater thing then outward baptisme and he esteemed them meet for the same because the kingdome of heaven is of such as
other distinctly because they knew them not all from the other nor the most of them yet some they did know and named them distinctly by name as may be instanced So that in this manner did Christ and his Apostles judge of the Church and distinguish in their judgements and so ought we to doe by their example and rule Christ did not give us a rule nor a gift to know all things as he knew all things but he hath given and doth give to his Ministers and Servants and Saints rules and examples and gifts whereby to understand his word whereby to walk whereby to judge righteous judgement but no rule nor example nor gift to judge short of it or above it to judge unrighteous judgement And whereas T. L. saith that the Apostles indeed might judge those whom they conceived to have justifying faith according to probabilitie might possibly bee destitute of it according to certainty By this he would seem to speak somewhat more favourably of the Apostles but indeed makes them as ignorant faulty and corrupt in their judgments and judgings as the hypocriticall Jewes as they of the Church of Rome at this time as our high Commission Court that lately was as himselfe for they all as well as he could iudge upon conceivings and probabilities sometimes right sometimes wrong possibly they might condemne a just man innocent and set free a murderer and possibly they might doe otherwise But no certaine righteous iudgment will T.L. allow the Apostles more then these and himselfe So that the Apostles are nothing at all beholding to T.L. for his favourable conceit of them If the Apostles judgements had been no sounder there was small reason then that they should be so credited as they were especially of the children of wisdome But it was otherwise they judged righteous judgement and understood what they said and did And whereas T. L. among his many distinctions saith wee are to distinguish between being and what possibly may be and of persons in respect of the time of their comming for Baptisme and the time of their continuance I aske him If such a distinction be to be made which I grant so it be rightly done why then he did not distinguish between the time of Simon Magus beleeving and being baptized and the time afterward when he would have given the Apostle Peter money for the gift of the holy Ghost and between his beleeving and this action from his mouth whereby he discovered his heart unto Peter but study to invent without any distinction of time or condition of state such a wicked argument against the Evangelist Luke and so against Philip and the truth it selfe And as concerning the latter part of his answer where he saith that although there were contentions in the Church and so a great fault in the generall so concluded by the Apostle yet not determined who were the particulars alwayes that caused the same might leave the search of that to the Congregation c. He in these words admits unto the Apostle Paul to judge somewhat better then upon conceiving and probabilitie when he spake of faults in the generall and of some in particular c. And so T.L. goes on telling how the Church is to proceed in brotherly admonition c. which because it is not any thing to the question in hand I leave it till some other occasion Onely I aske T. L. upon his last words why he will have no repentance after baptisme seeing Peter exhorts Simon Magus to repent of his sinne after his Baptisme is T. L. one that will have no acknowledging nor asking forgivenesse of sinnes after justification he holds all justified whom he baptizes therefore it is probable though they may prove but a Church of hypocriticall Pharisees like other false Churches when he hath all done The sixt Argument If to judge after the outward appearance be to judge like the hypocriticall Jewes and not to judge righteous judgement Then is not such kinde of judging after the outward appearance the rule which Christ gave to his Church to judge by But to judge after the outward appearance is to judge like the hypocriticall Jews and not to judge righteous judgement as Christ declareth Joh. 7.24 Therefore such kinde of judging is not the rule which Christ gave to his Church to judge by The Answer of T. L. I Answer Wee must distinguish upon outward appearance for it must not be that we must not judge the tree by the fruit nor the heart by the words of the mouth for that were to contradict the Scriptures Rom. 10.9 10. and to make Christ contrary to himselfe Mat. 7.16.20 Chap. 15.18 19. Mar. 7.20.21 22. Jam. 2.18 But by outward appearance is meant the contemptible respect Christs person was in in the eyes of the world by which they did not esteem his works according to their due worth and consequently did not value his doctrine which was ratified thereby The latter outward appearance is not the rule in which respect I grant your Argument true The former outward appearance is the rule which Christ give to his Church to judge by and your Argument hath no proofe to the contrary The reply of I. E. T. L. answers by distinguishing still as his manner hath been and saith we must distinguish upon outward appearance c. Whereas Christ condemns all judging after the outward appearance to be an unrighteous kinde of judging and requires all judgement to be according to truth and righteousnes admitting no errour or fayling in judging at all So that there is no distinction to be made between judging after the outward appearance and judging after the outward appearance no more then there is between being a Jew onely outwardly and being a Jew onely outwardly But T. L. grants the argument true from the place alledged and refuseth that kinde of judging to be the rule The former which he mentioneth from Mat. 7.16.20 to judg the tree by the fruit and the heart by the words of the mouth this he accounts to be the rule but would by his distinguishing make it a judging after the outward appearance also and so in substance no more righteous judgement then the other which Christ condemns for no doubt he will have it to agree with that kind of judging which he hath strove to maintaine all this while Those words of Christ Mat. 7.16.20 I doe acknowledge and hold to be the rule that Christ hath given to his Church and children of wisdome to judge the heart of man by and that it is a most true and perfect rule whereby they may and shall know a false Prophet and also a true a true Christian and also a false but no rule for Baptisme And although the words are plaine that they shall know them by their fruit as certainly as men doe know a good tree and a bad tree by their fruit yet it will not be so understood by T. L. he will distinguish upon knowing as he did upon