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A15093 The way to the true church wherein the principall motiues perswading according to Romanisme and questions touching the nature and authoritie of the church and scriptures, are familiarly disputed, and driuen to their issues, where, this day they sticke betweene the Papists and vs: contriued into an answer to a popish discourse concerning the rule of faith and the marks of the church. And published to admonish such as decline to papistrie of the weake and vncertaine grounds, whereupon they haue ventured their soules. Directed to all that seeke for resolution: and especially to his louing countrimen of Lancashire. By Iohn White minister of Gods word at Eccles. For the finding out of the matter and questions handled, there are three tables: two in the beginning, and one in the end of the booke. White, John, 1570-1615. 1608 (1608) STC 25394; ESTC S101725 487,534 518

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giuen to nature which belongeth to grace that cannot be without eminent danger But whatsoeuer we haue done in the point this I am sure of that our aduersaries are gone too farre euen by their owne confession There haue not bene wanting Diuines in our times d 22. p. 390. saith Dom. Bannes who haue giuen too much to freewill and the power of nature and while they thought to eschue the error of Lutherans they fell into the proud heresie of Pelagians And * Et 393. to make men free they haue made them proud filled them with sacriledge This is the truth For freewill hath of it selfe either some strength though small or none at all If any then Christ said not true without me ye can do nothing If none then where is freewill and the cooperation thereof with Gods grace I will end the point with Saints Austins complaint e De verb. Apost Ser. 2. Vnthankfull men to ascribe so much to weake wounded nature true it is that man when he was made had great strength of freewill but by sinne he lost it But f Sixt. Senens praefat l. 5. Staplet de Iustif l. 2. c. vlt. our aduersaries thinke Saint Austin went too farre in this question attributing too little to mans will § 41. In the Romane Church I confesse there be some bad and sinfull folke For the Church is called nigra formosa blacke and faire Cant. 1. because in it are mixed good and bad as out of diuerse parables of our Sauiour I proued before but there are two differences betwixt the sinfull which are in the Romane Church and among the sectaries And first of those that are among the sectaries there are none truly Holy of which as of the better or more worthie part their Church may be denominated and termed Holy as the Romane Church may be It may perhaps be that diuers of them abstaine from grosser sinnes as swearing backbiting stealing c. and that they do sometimes many workes morally good as giue almes erect hospitals liue at least in outward shew in modest and moderate sort but alas these be not sufficient or certaine signes of sanctitie all this and perhaps much more we may find in the heathen Philosophers These outward actions may proceed from naturall and sometimes from vicious and sinfull motiues and consequently may be verie farre from true holinesse which must proceede of true charitie without which charitie to distribute all that one hath to feed the poore or to giue ones bodie to burne doth nothing profite 1. Cor. 13. The which charitie must proceed de corde puro conscientia bona fide non ficta 1. Tim. 1. The which things being most inward and consequently hidden and secret cannot sufficiently be shewed to be present by those outward actions Nay they cannot be infallibly knowne of the partie himselfe for Nemo scit vtrum amore an odio dignus sit quis potest dicere mundum est cor meum Pro. 20. but are reserued to him onely qui scrutatur corda to wit almightie God and it cannot be perfectly knowne of vs who haue them truly and consequently who be truly Saints vnlesse it please him to reueale it by miracle or some other certaine way vnto vs. The Answer 1 To proue we are not the holy Church of God the Iesuite obiected our sinfull liues as if we had bene of worse conuersation then the professors of the true faith could be But forsomuch as he wisely foresaw that if we fell to comparing the liues of one another his owne Church would receiue as much disgrace thereby as ours and his argument bent against vs in the discharge would recoile vpon himselfe and roll in the fall vpon the heads of his owne people because they are as bad and sinfull as their fellowes therefore now he answereth that difficultie by assigning a difference betweene the people of his Church and the people of ours in this point and the difference he saith is this that although in his Romane Church there be some bad and sinfull yet all are not so whereas with vs there are none good but all are wicked A proud and ridiculous bragge but yet I answer it True holinesse consisteth in the concourse of the righteousnesse of iustification and sanctification The former of iustification is wheresouer Christ with all his merits is imputed and apprehended by faith for the pardon of our sinnes and accepting of vs againe to eternall life a Rom. 4.11 3.24 This is called the righteousnes of faith and they which haue it are truly holy thereby and our Church teacheth it against the Church of Rome that hath renounced it and so depriued her children of all true holinesse The second of sanctification is when we bring forth fruites worthy of amendment of life not walking after the flesh but after the spirit And we affirme that in our Church this also is ioyned with the former though we all confesse it be in great weaknesse and farre from that perfection which we desire and such as walke in it b 1. Ioh. 3.7 Mat. 7.16 12.33 Rom. 8.9 Gal. 5.22 Eph. 5.9 2. Pet. 1.5 are proued thereby to be truly holy 2 Against this externall righteousnes of our sanctification the Iesuite obiecteth that though we abstaine from grosser sinnes and do many good morall works c. yet this is no certaine signe we are holy for this and much more may proceed from sinfull motions and be found among the very Gentiles Whereto I answer that this were a good argument against vs if we had no righteousnesse among vs but such as he hath herein described For this morall holinesse is no holinesse indeed neither do we thereby declare the holinesse of our Church but say the good workes done among vs proceed from faith and loue and are directed to the glory of God according to the rules of sanctification and so are sufficient to testifie for vs. And we grant as the Iesuit requireth that many great and plausible workes of moralitie may proceed from naturall yea sinful motiues and that therefore there is no true holinesse vnlesse it proceed from charitie grounded on a pure heart and a good conscience and faith vnfained but we adde withall that the workes of our Church proceed from this charitie and thence receiue their condition of holinesse 3 And how doth the Iesuite know the contrary because he saith so confidently the holinesse found among vs ariseth not from charitie What is the ground whereupon he saith so He answereth true charitie a good conscience and faith be things inward and secret and therefore cannot by our outward actions be shewed to be present nay he saith the partie himself without reuelation or miracle cannot be sure he hath them The which if it be true I desire him to answer plainly how he knoweth his owne good workes proceed from faith and charitie and by what meanes he will demonstrate it to me that
haue seen affirme we may know it by our good desire comfort of minde and good workes Scotus g 3 d. 23. pag. 46 saith As I beleeue God is three in person and one in essence so do I also beleeue my selfe to haue faith infused whereby I beleeue this Dominicus Bannes h In Tho. 22. p. 359. c. saith Euery one that beleeueth seeth that he doth beleeue And i 1. 2. q. 112. art 5. Medina with whō he and k Caiet ib. Ban. vbi supra others consent saith A Christian man by the infallible certaintie of faith which cannot be deceiued certainly knoweth himselfe to haue supernaturall faith Vega l Refert Greg. de Valent to 2. pag. 957. saith Some spirituall men may be so certaine that they are in grace that this their assurance shal be free frō all feare and staggering m Dom. Soto apol c. 2. Others hold that a man may attaine to that certaintie of his owne grace that he may without all doubting be as sure thereof as he is that there is a citie called Rome And some hold n Catharin assert apolog the very certaintie of faith as we teach and define it Next touching the remission of sinnes and eternall life they say o Medin vbi supra pag. 630. I would haue euery beleeuer certainly to hope he shal obtaine eternall life Doctor Stapleton p De iustifie pag. 341. saith We leaue not a sinner hanging in the middest of wauering doubtfulnesse but we place him in good and firme hope when once his conscience witnesseth with him that he hath truly repented I grant indeed that some of these disallow the certaintie of faith in this case and admit a man onely to hope but this is but contention about words and they had as good haue said Faith confidence or trust as hope but for the preiudice of their stomacks For q Stapl. l. 9. c. 11 de iustif Dom. Ban. 22. q 18. art 4. they confesse the certaintie of hope is not any doubtfulnesse wauering one while to this side another while to that as a man thinketh himselfe sometime accepted of God and sometime not but it is a certaintie in the will of him that hopeth both firme and assured excluding all doubtfulnesse touching remission of sinnes The which in effect is as much as we say and full opposite to the Iesuites assertion Againe seeing r Medin p. 627. themselues grant that all conclusions are the conclusions of faith which arise from one proposition contained in the Scripture and another by good consequence added vnto it why should they denie this to be a conclusion of faith My sinnes are forgiuen me For the first proposition is expresse Scripture He that repenteth is pardoned The next assumed to it is euidently knowne in the conscience But I repent The conclusion therefore is of faith Therefore I am forgiuen or such like For no man knoweth he hath faith or any grace but by such and the same discourse that this is The euidence of which reasons haue driuen some Papists to allow vs the name also as wel as the thing For I shewed euen now that Catharinus at the Councell of Trent defended our very assertion that the child of God by the certaintie of faith knoweth himselfe to be in the state of grace The like is written by the ſ Enchirid. Christian instit in Concil Colon pag. 139. Diuines of Colen It is true and required for a mans iustification that he certainly beleeue not onely in generall that such as are truly penitent shal obtaine forgiuenes by Christ but also that the man himselfe which beleeueth shall be forgiuen through faith in Christ And againe This is true that no mans sins are forgiuen him vnlesse he beleeue that he hath obtained forgiuenes through Christ And a Frier in the time of the Councell of Trent u Refert Innocent Gentill exam Concil Trident. preached thus before the Councell Let man saith he abhorring the vaine confidence of his own worthines depend wholly on Gods mercy Let him make account that God as a most louing father is present with him frō whom let him alway expect things ioyfull and happie and let him neuer suffer that perswasion to be striken out of his minde though the difficulties be infinite which the world the flesh and the diuell procure thereby to leade vs from the confidence of God and his most religious seruice Wherefore they do not wander in the maze of doubtfulnesse which through Christ haue obtained righteousnesse but in the securitie of their minde and peace of their conscience and ioy of their heart being taught by the Spirit which testifieth with them that they are the sonnes of God they crie Abba Father 11 Why striue they then so bitterly against vs in this title and why do they racke torment the consciences of men by telling them that without miracle it cannot be known who standeth in grace when vanquisht by the truth they are forced in the end to eare their owne words and confesse it may be knowne by the testimonie of Gods Spirit within vs You shall see the peeuishnesse that is among them I will x Bart. Medina vbi supra pag. 630. saith one of them allow euery faithfull man to hope certenly that he shall obtaine eternall life but to be confident therein with the Lutheran confidence I vtterly forbid him Marke the vanitie and stomacke of our aduersaries they will allow vs to be certaine and confident and we require no more but not with the Lutheran confidence they will communicate with the doctrine vpon a little parly but they wil first giue it a new name to make it Roman-Catholike Luther belike did them some shrewd turne that they would endure his termes no longer in their church They seeme to be in the same taking with him u 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that the man in y Suidas was toward his Cat for eating vp his Partridge he loued his bird well as the Pope did his crowne and therefore the Cat that deuoured it must looke to dwell no longer in his house but be packing § 42. But hitherto it was neuer heard that almightie God did by miracle or any such certaine way giue testimonie that either Luther or Caluin or anie of their fellowes had this true holinesse or that they were Saints Whereas it hath pleased him to giue testimonie by miracles of the holinesse of diuerse that professed the Romane faith as of S. Benedict S. Anthonie S. Greg. Thaumaturgus S. Bernard S. Francis diuers others who all professed the Romane faith and diuerse of them were religious men and founders of religious orders which Protestants reiect and seeke by all means to disgrace The Answer 1 The first part of this is answered before sect 39. num 1. where I haue shewed how and in what maner God giueth testimonie that we are his Saints and our workes holy whither I referre the Reader The