Conversations in Times past in the Lust of our Flâ—sh following the Desires of the Flesh and of the Mind and were by Nature the Children of Wrath as well as others now all may see how this man wrests the Scriptures to prove their dark Imaginations concerning Children being in a State of Condemnation before they are born now see and consider whether Children before they are born can commit such Things as this Scripture saith that these Ephesians were guilty of before they were converted unto God he brings Rom. 3.9 again 9.33 and Tit. 3.5 6. where all may see whether these Scriptures speak any Thing of Children before they are born being guilty of Sin which he hath a Mind to strain them to but it 's plain to the contrary and speaks of the States of Men and Women and not of Children whereby his Folly is made manifest And this further I ask these men which would have Children before they are born to be Children of Wrath because of their Fathers Sins which they are innocent of where that Scripture is that saith that God ever condemned the Righteous or innocent for the Wicked's sake as they darkly say that God condemns the Innocent Children for their Fathers Sins nay the contrary is easily to be proved that God hath and doth many Times spare the wicked for the sake of the Righteous which is far from destroying the guiltless for the guilty sake so that the Judge of the whole Earth doth right Things Gen. 18.25 So the Way of the Lord is equal who sheweth Mercy without Respect of Persons to all that fear his Name and obey his Grace and his Judgments are just upon all that rebel against the Appearance of his Grace and hate the Light that manifestly shines upon all so that Man's Destruction is of himself for want of receiving Christ the Son of his Love into his Heart who is come a Light into the World and is knocking at every Ones Doâ—r for the awakening of them out of their Sins and that he might purge their Consciences from Dead Works and renew their Minds and enlarge their Hearts to serve the living and true God And as conâ—â—rning Children before they are born they are doubtless in a State of Innocency and after they are born until they come to that Age as to understand Good and Evil then choosing the Evil and refusing knowingly that which is Good that contracts the Guilt upon their Conscience whereby they come under the State of Reproof for it and Condemnation if they continue in that which is Evil which is just upon them for their own Sins and not for their Fathers which they never committed which agrees with the Word of the Lord spoken by his Prophet Jer. 31.30 That every one shall dye for his own Sins he that eateth his Teeth shall be set on Edge so as the Lord saith and complains of a rebellious Generation As the Children grew up so they went from me So that it is plain that People bring forth Fruit according to the Seed which they receive into their Hearts and yield up the Strength of their Desires unto they that receive the good Seed that God hath sown and yield up the Strength of their Desires unto it they bring forth Fruits unto Holiness which Seed Christ saith is sown in all Sorts of Grounds but now who doth not watch unto this blessed Seed and Grace of God the Appearance of which is unto all without respect of Persons but like the Sluggard slumbers away the Time and doth not watch unto the Light of Christ Jesus to lead them keep them preserve them out of the Wicked One's Snares in them the Wicked One sows his Seed which grows up and they in that bring forth Evil Fruits and thus we see the Scriptures fulfilled according as it is written Luke 6.45 A Good Man out of the Good Treasure that is in his Heart bringeth forth Good Things and the Evil Man out of the Evil Treasure of his Heart bringeth forth Evil Things And therefore let every one now examine themselves and see what Root bares them for it is Fruits of Holiness that the Lord looks for and requires ar the Hand of every one which he hath made and given Life and Breath unto and for that End that all may bring forth Fruit to his Glory he hath given unto every man a Manifestation of his own Spirit to profit withal as saith the Apostle 1 Cor. 12.7 and a Measure of his own Light to be a Guide unto them which Spirit and Light appears within Man and Woman whereby that saying is fulfilled which the Apostle speaâ—â— of Rom. chap. 1. vers 19. That which may be known of God is manifest in them And now let none be discouraged by these Blind Guides who say That the Grace of God did not appear unto All Men and now say That it doth not agree with their Rule of Faith to speak and to believe as the Apostle believed and spake as you may see under their own Hands And thus God hath cleared the Innocent from their Slanders and I have faithfully Detected their False Doctrines and asserted the Truth as it is in Jesus who am a Servant to all in the Truth S. Cater THE END
desired that some few might speak yet the Men and Women let loose their Tongues at their Pleasure some railing and gnashing on us with their Teeth Rep. But Francis why hast thou not set down the Names of those that did so Oh shameless Man to publish such Lyes in Print dost thou think to hide thy self under this pitiful Covering but Francis I have not yet forgot thine and thy Brother Odde's rude Speeches and unsavoury Carriages some of which are already in Print what he said at his coming in and going out of the Meeting calling us Dogs Dogs and Vipers too In page 4. Francis saith Know you Deceivers that many already see by the Light of the Word of God and many I hope more daily shall that these are no slanders but a faithful witnessing given by us against you Reply And to prove us Deceivers he tells us of some of his Brethren he calls Ministers have writ Books against us which Books have been already answer'd by us and their dark Works detected but Francis if thou wast not wholly in Darkness thou would'st see thy Folly in taking this Way to prove the Matter for if this be the only Way to prove thee and thy Brethren Deceivers then remember how many Books have been published in Print with our Names to them against you Hireling Priests Envious Professors these twenty Years whereby you have been marked out by your Fruits and Doctrines to be apostatized from the true Faith and Practice of the true Apostles and Ministers of Christ and are discovered thereby to be walking in the Steps of the false in whose Steps I number you who appear to be Enemies to the true Light Page 5. F. H. saith He is falsly reported of to have said and affirm that every one is enlightned with the Light of Christ is cursed Idolatry and again he is falsly reported to say that every one is enlightned I grant but not with the Light of Christ Reply But F. H. art not thou ashamed thus to tell Lyes in Print and to deny that which thy Tongue spake then in the hearing of many Witnesses and which thy Hand here hath set down whereby thou contradictest thy self for say'st thou at the very following Words by which thou chargest us for wronging of thee in saying that the Light of Christ is cursed idolatry say'st thoâ— What the Idolatry is you shall hear more largely whereby thou hast acknowledged the Charge Again page 5. F. H. saith Thus I constantly affirm that all Men are by Christ who is the true God and Eternal Life enlightned with the Light of Nature of which you shall hear more hereafter and what he saith of this Christ which he saith gives unto all Men a Natural Light Page 5. S. C. asks what is it then that they are enlightned with F. H. A Creature S. C. What Kind of Creature c. passing by your absurd asking whether it be a Man or a Beast I answer I said Deceivers that the Light in all Men is created c. Rep. I shall place this to thy Account which increaseth thy Lyes and Slanders of the Innocent for thou didst say that the Light was a Creature and now thou say'st that the Light in all Men is created but what Advantage thou hast gotten by telling this Lye and altering thy Word from a Creature to Created I cannot see except it be to abuse us by thy Lyes whose Reward will be according to thy Work if thou repentest not And whereas thou say'st That we rend thee or rail on thee because thou wilt not blaspheme the true God with the Quakers and term the Light that is in all Men by Nature is the one Jehovah I say this is a false Accusation and to call the Light that lighteth every Man that cometh into the World Natural is gross Darkness and are thy Words and not ours nor Scripture-Words for we say and affirm that Light that shineth in and unto every Man and which gives him the Knowledge of what is good and what is evil is pure and spiritual and comes from God who is a Spirit Page 6. F. H. saith Col. 1.27 To whom God will make known what is the Riches of the Glory of this Mystery amongst the Gentiles which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory this saith he they prophainly with daubing Flattery apply to all men and the Light that is in all men this is Christ in them all the Hope of Glory Rep. Here thou hast ignorantly or willingly belyed us for we never did fo say or affirm that the Light of Christ that shines and appears unto all Men is Salvation unto all or the Hope of Glory in all for many there be that are condemned by it because they hate it and as Christ saith will not bring their Deeds unto it because their Deeds are Evil Joh. 3.19 20. So that the Light of Christ is the Hope of Glory in them that believe in it and obey it which is according to Simeon's Testimony a Light to lighten the Gentiles and the Glory of thy People Israel Luke 2.32 Page 6. F. H. saith Another Scripture they bring to set up their false God is Rom. 10.8 The Word is nigh in thy Heart and in thy Mouth that is the Word of Faith which we preach this they compare with John 1. and from these Words here spoken of is Christ the Word who was in the Beginning Christ the Light who is God who is they say in the Heart of every man Rep. Now Francis if thou were not wholly in Darkness thou would'st not thus manifest thy own Shame and give me so fair an Opportunity to lay open thy Weakness unto all People but the Day is come in which the Secrets of all Hearts are to be made manifest and the hidden Things of Esau sought out and the Lord is uncovering the Skirts of the Whore and stripping her of all her various Dresses and uncovering the Nakedness of her and her Merchants and now at the Light of this glorious Day the Heathens rage and the People that live in Darkness are angry and now consider thy own Confusion who art speaking against us for accounting that to Christ or the Appearance of Christ which is spoken of Rom. 10. now read what the Scriptures say and see if thou canst make any Thing else of it without wresting of the Scriptures but Christ and his spiritual Appearance to the Heart and Soul of Man Bâ—â— the Righteousness which is by Faith speaketh on this wise say not in thy Heart who shall ascend into Heaven that is to bring Christ from above or who shall descend into the Deep that is to bring Christ again from the Dead but saith it the Word is nigh thee even in thy Heart c. And John 1. In the Beginning was the Word and that Word was with God and that Word was God c. And so we declare it to be as we have received it even as the Scriptures testifie of it
not believe us which Christ is the true Christ that lighteth all men and witnessed so to be by the Scriptures of Truth spoken by the Prophets and Jesus Christ himself and the holy Apostles which I have before largely proved and in whose Light the Church of Christ had Fellowship one with another 1 John 1.7 And it s said by the Apostle That they that say they have Fellowship with God and walk in Darkness they lye and do not the Truth amongst whom I number thee who hast manifested so much Envy against the Light and the Servants of it and tells us until we cast that away namely Christ the Light which is the Guide and Way to Heaven as before I have proved you will look upon us as Deceivers that we cannot help but I say the more is the pity that thou or any man should be so overcome and led captive by the Power of Darkness that you will not own us nor our Testimony unless we will deny the true God and Jesus Christ I tell thee Francis thou hast set us too dear a Price for us to give you for your Approbation of us nay although you had as much to proffer as your Master the power of Darkness proffered Christ if he would fall down and worship him I hope neither I nor any one amongst us who loves the Light and believes therein and hath seen and felt how good the Lord hath been unto our Souls thereby shall ever so deny the Lord that bought them as in casting away so precious a pearl as this Heavenly and Divine Light of Christ which hath ever been and yet is to all them that believe in it and no man ever was nor can be truly happy without they believe in it and obey it which thou sayest we must cast away but I tell thee that if thou dost expect it thou art mistaken and thy Eyes will sink in their Holes and thy carnal Imaginations will rot in thy Head before thou seest that That ever a People should turn from the Light and Truth of God made manifest in our Hearts and Consciences for the purifying of our Hearts and saving of our Souls to turn unto your dark Imaginations who are such bitter Enemies unto the Light which gives the Knowledge of God and r veals the Mysteries of Life unto all them that believe therein 2 Cor. 4.6 Now I testifie That Widdowhood and Loss of Children must be the Portion of all you Professors as it hath been ever since we have been a People to bear Testimony unto the blessed and spiritual Appearance of God in the Light of his dear Son And I am not without Hope that some that are late turned from you and your dark Imaginations are and will be the more confirmed in this precious Truth unto which their Minds are turned and that those that yet sit under your Dark and Confused Teaching who hate the Light and are Reproachers and Railers against the Lovers of it may thereby be awakened to consider what they are a doing in following such Teachers who are against the True Light and Universal Love of God held forth to all men thereby for there is but Light and Darkness and they that hate the Light must needs be in Darkness And the Apostle John saith They that walk in Darkness they lye and do not the Truth Now I would have all People take notice that F. H. doth not Rail against us for Darkness and express his Envy against us as being led by the power of Darkness for he intitles us that and saith the Quakers God and Christ as you may see all along in his Book the Light that is in All Men which the Scripture witnesseth to be the True God and Jesus Christ which I have before proved by the Scriptures only this I would have all People take notice of which I have hinted at before which is the Practice of him and all such Blind Gâ—ides as he is to call that which is True False and that which is really True he calls False and that which is the True Light he calls Darkness For there is nothing that giveth Light to every Man but the True God and Christ and thus he puts Light for Darkness whereby it appears according to the Scriptures he is under the Wo Isa 5.20 And now I shall take a little Notice of what Joseph Oddey saith page 14. who writes to one Samuel Cater a Deceiver amongst the Quakers who at that Meeting at Thriploe And for what he hath said now in this Paper he deserveth just Reproof for his rude and unsavoury Words which do not become a Man that professeth himself to be a Minister of Christ Rep. And now J. O. I do tell thee that the Light of Christ tâ—at I with many more have received teacheth us not to render Evil for Evil nor Railing for Railing but contrarywise to speak the Truth in Soberness and with sound Words to demonstrate and declare the Truth as it is in Jesus And now thou hast called me a Deceiver which is a false Accusation and thou might'st better have left it until thou hadst proved me so which thou nor thy Brother could not do although promised to do it and thou called'st us a Generation of Vipers and said'st Thou would'st prove us so to be before you went away and did'st not then do it so that it appears it is an easier Matter to cast Reproaches and Slanders upon a People then it is to prove it when you have done But Joseph thou manifests by thy Fruit what Spirit rules thy Heart for saith the Scripture An Evil Man out of the Evil Treasure of his Heart brings forth Evil Things from that cometh Railing and Evil-speaking and Backbiting Page 14. he pretends to examine me with what Face I could say that his Brother Holdcraft did not read the Scripture right Tit. 2.11 The Grace of God that brings Salvation hath appeared unto Men and that he left out the Word ALL and impudently said it was not in the Greek can this be a bare mistake in thy self and others Rep. I say no it is no Mistake we do still affirm the same to be true of him as we have published and there are three of our Names to it and many more will witness it to your Faces to be true if an Opportunity be afforded and further there was a Man that at the same time when Francis said that the Word ALL was not in the Greek as it is in our Books reproved him and asked him why he brought his Bible hither if it were wrong translated a Man that stood by as a Hearer well known in the Country to be a Man of Estate and Credit who was not then nor is now one with us in Principle or Practice Page 14. How J. O proves that I have belyed his Brother Holdcraft saith he I stood next him on the one side had my Hearing through God's Goodness I think I may say as well as you could this
mind what one of you one Henry Bostock an Apostate said to me God forbid that I should own such a God that hath Hands and Feet F. H. saith towards the latter end of this page There is but one living and true God Everlasting Without Body Parts or Passions c. F. H. pag. 11. towards the latter end That we never said that any Children before they were born or any else were in a state of Damnation till with Dives they lift up their Eyes in Hell J. O. pag. 16. lin 3. I speak of Children before they be born the same Scripture that prove them to be guilty of Original Sin proves them to be Children of Wrath and under Condemnation F. H. pag. 13. lin 13. My Friends may know for some time my Reading that Word no other then what is in the English Bible J. O. pag. 14. lin 14. I forgot not wholely the Contention with Mr. Houldcraft about the altering of the Reading from what it is ordinarily in our English Bibles Their Controversie stated here is little else but Fictions Which we have plainly made appear behold their Contradictions The Truth of what is here declared wee 'l certainly Maintain And turn your Cursed Forgeries upon your Backs again Shall Impudence with open Face thus act and not be blamed Who have thus with such foul Disgrace God's Glorious Light defamed Shall Forgeries be counted Zeal or Lyes upon us fall No no the Power of God we feel to Triumph over All Jacob Bakeâ— Here followeth a Testimony against the False Doctrines asserted by these Men who say that Children before they are born are Vessels of Wrath and under Condemnation because of their Fathers Sin which Judgment of theirs is here detected by the Scriptures of Truth and the contrary proved and their wresting the Scriptures discovered THis is the Testimony that God Almighty hath put into my Heart to bear with many more Brethren That God who is rich in Mercy and desires not that any should perish but that all might turn from the Evil of their Wayes and live that the Day of his Power is now in this our Day Age and Generation dawned and broken forth which John saw in the Vision of the Almighty when he was in the Spirit by which the Things of God were revealed unto him who said Rev. 14.6 I saw an Angel fly in the midst of Heaven having the Everlasting Gospel to preach unto them that dwell upon the Earth and to every Nation and Kindred and Tongue and People which Time is now come in which the Lord's Power and Holy Spirit moves upon our Hearts to preach the Word of Reconciliation unto all men which is according to the ancient Testimony of the Servants of God and Ministers of Christ which went before us whereby it appears according to the Scriptures of Truth that the Gospel which we preach is the same that was begun to be preached by the Lord Jesus and was confirmed by them that heard him 1 Tim. 3.4 For this is acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour who would have all men to be saved and come to the Knowledge of the Truth And this is the Gospel that the True Ministers now preach which is Glad-tidings unto all that are in their Sins That there is Mercy with the Lord for them all that they may be saved For Christ is come a Light into the World that whosoever believes in him should not perish And The Grace of God that brings Salvation appears unto all men to teach them to deny Vngodliness and whosoever bows to the Teachings of it shall be saved And as Christ stood up in the great Day of the Feast saying If any Man thirst let him come unto me and drink whereby it appears that God's Love is unto all Men and blessed be the Lord there is a Remnant whom God by the Light of his dear Son that shineth in our Hearts he hath brought us to see the same and hath inlarged our Hearts by Faith in his Power to publish Peace by Jesus Christ unto all Men whereby the VVords of Christ are fulfilled Joh. 3.14 As Moses lifted up the Serpent in the Wilderness so must the Son of Man be lifted up whereby the Folly of these Men is made manifest and their false Doctrines detected who would tye up the Love of God in Jesus Christ to but a few a certain Number of People now see Numb 21.9 whether that Serpent of Brass that Christ speaks of that was set upon a Pole was only for one or two Tribes of Israel to be healed by as these Men vainly imagine concerning the Love of God now manifested in Christ which they say is but for a few if so that was not a true Figure of the Love of God in Christ or there is a Shortness in Christ the Substance of performing to and for Man that which figured it out if these Mens Doctrines be true for it came to pass that if a Serpent had bit any Man when he beheld the Serpent of Brass he lived Now these Men will readily grant that all are bit or stung by the old Enemy of Man the Serpent that beguiled Eve in the Beginning but they have not so much Faith as to believe that there is Vertue enough in Christ to cure us all or if there be it is not intended for all let such Teachers hold their Tongues that are out of the Faith that was and is delivered unto the Saints and Ministers of Christ for they give an uncertain Sound and are but like sounding Brass and tinkling Cymbals who make a Din in Peoples Ears but do not reach to the VVitness of God in the Hearts and Consciences of Men and VVomen who have not received that Commission that Christ gave unto his Disciples Mark 16.15 who bad his Disciples go and preach the Gospel unto every Creature which Gospel was Glad Tidings to the poor and the opening of the Prison Doors to them that were bound and Light to them that sate in Darkness and in a word to give Knowledge of Salvation and of a Physician that hath Virtue in him to cure all Diseases that come upon Mans Heart and Soul because of Sin and this is freely tendered unto all Men that will believe in him and look unto him And now whereas these Men make a Noise about a State of Children being under Condemnation because of their Fathers Sins which Saying of theirs is altogether contrary to the Scriptures of Truth Jer. 31.30 And concerning Children Christ saith Of such is the Kingdom of Heaven and further saith Whosoever receiveth not the Kingdom as a little Child he shall in no Wise enter therein which Words do plainly imply Children to be in an innocent State and free from Sin and Evil for the Scripture saith Nothing that defileth can enter into God's Kingdom But J. O. having a Desire to prove Children Sinners before they are born he brings iâ— Eph. 2.3 Among whom also we all had our