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heart_n aaron_n almighty_a people_n 15 3 4.2472 3 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A12592 A godly treatise containing and deciding certaine questions, mooued of late in London and other places, touching the ministerie, sacraments, and Church Whereunto one proposition more is added. After the ende of this booke you shall finde a defence of such points as M. Penry hath dealt against: and a confutation of many grosse errours broched in M. Penries last treatise. Written by Robert Some Doctor of Diuinitie. Some, Robert, 1542-1609.; Penry, John, 1559-1593. Defence of that which hath bin written in the questions of the ignorant ministerie, and the communicating with them. 1588 (1588) STC 22909; ESTC S117654 118,250 200

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which_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n at_o the_o hand_n of_o a_o unpreach_a minister_n i._o penry_n paul_n communicate_v since_o his_o conversion_n with_o those_o priest_n that_o be_v as_o unlearned_a as_o ever_o any_o which_o he_o will_v not_o have_v do_v if_o inability_n to_o teach_v have_v make_v they_o no_o priest_n r._n some_o then_o in_o m._n penryes_n judgement_n the_o holy_a apostle_n be_v not_o pollute_v by_o communicate_v with_o unpreach_v minister_n can_v any_o man_n if_o he_o have_v but_o half_a a_o eye_n suspect_v that_o m._n penry_n dissent_v from_o i_o in_o judgement_n what_o then_o may_v i_o think_v against_o who_o he_o have_v write_v well_o i_o must_v be_v content_a with_o the_o measure_n he_o offer_v i_o my_o comfort_n be_v that_o he_o shall_v gain_v and_o i_o lose_v nothing_o by_o it_o yea_o i_o assure_v myself_o by_o god_n grace_n that_o god_n church_n shall_v gain_v by_o this_o difference_n he_o pretend_v great_a desire_n of_o a_o learned_a ministry_n but_o his_o 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nor_o so_o easy_o descry_v for_o the_o holy_a word_n be_v a_o searcher_n hebr._n 4._o all_o which_o love_v the_o religion_n have_v and_o do_v desire_v a_o great_a number_n of_o able_a teacher_n that_o our_o church_n may_v have_v more_o beauty_n our_o prince_n more_o honour_n our_o people_n more_o heavenly_a comfort_n none_o mislike_v this_o but_o such_o as_o make_v god_n church_n either_o a_o mark_n to_o shoot_v at_o or_o a_o carcase_n to_o feed_v upon_o the_o one_o sort_n be_v profess_v enemy_n the_o other_o graceless_a hypocrite_n for_o they_o prefer_v mire_n before_o pearl_n earth_n before_o heaven_n and_o their_o filthy_a swine_n before_o jesus_n christ_n as_o the_o gergesens_n do_v mat._n 8._o 4._o the_o teacher_n of_o religion_n must_v have_v maintenance_n to_o show_v kindness_n to_o the_o lord_n house_n be_v a_o excellent_a work_n so_o do_v nehemias_n a_o courtier_n to_o provide_v maintenance_n for_o the_o teacher_n be_v to_o show_v kindness_n to_o the_o lord_n house_n nehem._n 13._o verse_n 14._o what_o then_o be_v their_o kindness_n which_o sell_v church_n live_n as_o judas_n do_v christ_n the_o abominable_a sale_n and_o merchandise_n of_o church_n living_n be_v cry_v out_o against_o in_o court_n city_n and_o university_n propter_fw-la abundantiam_fw-la as_o one_o say_v of_o late_a nonpote_v &_o propter_fw-la impudentiam_fw-la non_fw-la vult_fw-la celari_fw-la that_o be_v the_o poll_n and_o sale_n of_o church_n living_n be_v so_o common_a that_o it_o can_v and_o so_o shameless_a that_o it_o will_v not_o be_v hide_v to_o forsake_v the_o house_n of_o god_n be_v a_o heinous_a sin_n not_o to_o provide_v for_o the_o teacher_n be_v to_o forsake_v the_o house_n of_o god_n nehem._n 10._o and_o 13._o chap._n how_o great_a then_o be_v their_o sin_n which_o rob_v the_o church_n and_o churchman_n it_o be_v a_o gross_a sin_n to_o spoil_v either_o
of_o 80._o godly_a man_n he_o kill_v 70._o of_o they_o jer._n cap._n 41._o judas_n kiss_v christ_n but_o he_o betray_v he_o matth._n 26._o you_o use_v goodly_a word_n sometime_o but_o proud_a malice_n will_v appear_v it_o can_v be_v hide_v marcus_z cicero_z in_o his_o time_n have_v many_o hollow_a friend_n after_o his_o return_n from_o banishment_n he_o be_v revenge_v of_o they_o nihil_fw-la credendo_fw-la omne_fw-la cavendo_fw-la that_o be_v in_o credit_v they_o in_o nothing_o and_o beware_v of_o they_o in_o every_o thing_n if_o i_o serve_v you_o so_o i_o can_v not_o be_v just_o blame_v you_o pretend_v great_a sincerity_n and_o innocence_n but_o your_o heretical_a absurdity_n in_o your_o treatise_n and_o your_o shameless_a deal_n with_o our_o magistrate_n and_o learned_a man_n do_v cry_v aloud_o that_o you_o be_v in_o deed_n very_o little_o acquaint_v with_o sincerity_n and_o innocence_n i_o tell_v you_o plain_o that_o i_o like_v better_a humile_fw-la peccatum_fw-la quàm_fw-la superbam_fw-la innocentiam_fw-la that_o be_v humble_a sin_n then_o proud_a innocence_n the_o humble_a publican_n be_v more_o account_v of_o then_o the_o proud_a pharisee_n luk._n 18._o i_o pray_v god_n with_o all_o my_o heart_n to_o keep_v i_o and_o all_o such_o as_o love_v the_o religion_n and_o detest_v your_o anabaptisticall_a fancy_n from_o such_o as_o you_o and_o the_o fantastical_a sort_n be_v you_o and_o they_o be_v strange_a cattle_n your_o hope_n that_o i_o will_v grant_v you_o the_o cause_n you_o defend_v be_v a_o vain_a hope_n for_o i_o think_v great_a scorn_n to_o be_v one_o of_o ignorant_a penries_n disciple_n that_o be_v a_o proud_a and_o ignorant_a anabaptist_n if_o you_o will_v have_v any_o thing_n at_o my_o hand_n in_o divinity_n matter_n you_o must_v gain_v it_o by_o force_n of_o argument_n if_o you_o think_v that_o i_o will_v come_v off_o otherwise_o you_o be_v in_o a_o wrong_a box_n for_o i_o intend_v not_o to_o be_v at_o your_o whistle_n yea_o i_o require_v and_o charge_v you_o in_o the_o name_n of_o god_n if_o you_o be_v not_o void_a of_o grace_n to_o confess_v your_o ignorance_n to_o detest_v your_o error_n to_o yield_v unto_o god_n truth_n that_o god_n blessing_n may_v rest_v upon_o you_o if_o you_o refuse_v to_o do_v this_o take_v heed_n that_o god_n vengeance_n seize_v not_o upon_o you_o i._o penry_n last_o if_o man_n may_v be_v assure_v that_o they_o can_v have_v the_o true_a substance_n of_o baptism_n in_o popery_n than_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o keep_v their_o child_n from_o popish_a baptism_n if_o there_o be_v no_o other_o baptism_n in_o the_o world_n to_o be_v have_v for_o man_n may_v come_v to_o their_o baptism_n &_o detest_v their_o corruption_n if_o it_o be_v god_n baptism_n as_o you_o m._n some_o affirm_v it_o to_o be_v pag._n 20._o and_o they_o can_v add_v a_o edify_a word_n unto_o the_o sacrament_n if_o the_o recital_n of_o the_o word_n of_o institution_n be_v a_o edify_a word_n and_o that_o be_v sufficient_a to_o make_v a_o sacrament_n both_o which_o you_o have_v write_v page_n 23._o 24._o but_o man_n ought_v rather_o to_o keep_v their_o child_n unbaptise_v then_o to_o offer_v they_o to_o be_v profane_v by_o popish_a baptism_n both_o for_o the_o former_a reason_n and_o because_o we_o ought_v to_o have_v no_o more_o fellowship_n with_o papist_n in_o the_o service_n of_o god_n then_o with_o pagane_n idolater_n m._n caluine_n have_v write_v otherwise_o in_o this_o point_n therefore_o again_o i_o appeal_v to_o the_o word_n r._n some_o i_o will_v answer_v this_o section_n of_o you_o both_o brief_o and_o round_o by_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n that_o baptism_n deliver_v in_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v and_o be_v god_n baptism_n i_o make_v no_o question_n for_o proof_n of_o this_o point_n i_o have_v set_v down_o weighty_a reason_n in_o my_o former_a treatise_n one_o of_o m._n caluines_n a_o other_o ab_fw-la absurdo_fw-la your_o answer_n to_o they_o be_v very_o foolish_a and_o be_v so_o account_v of_o by_o the_o learned_a sort_n i_o have_v examine_v they_o a_o little_a in_o this_o treatise_n it_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n that_o there_o be_v &_o be_v true_a baptism_n in_o the_o popish_a church_n before_o you_o deny_v it_o not_o but_o now_o the_o case_n be_v alter_v you_o account_v it_o a_o error_n to_o affirm_v it_o what_o mutability_n be_v this_o he_o that_o will_v sail_v after_o your_o compass_n for_o divinity_n matter_n shall_v prove_v as_o giddy_a as_o a_o goose_n i_o pray_v god_n with_o all_o my_o heart_n to_o bless_v his_o people_n in_o england_n &_o wales_n and_o to_o keep_v they_o from_o such_o blind_a guide_n as_o the_o ignorant_a sort_n be_v and_o from_o such_o blind_a guide_n as_o the_o ignorant_a sort_n be_v and_o from_o such_o shameless_a and_o fantastical_a guide_n as_o you_o m._n penry_n be_v concern_v this_o question_n viz._n whether_o man_n ought_v to_o offer_v their_o child_n to_o popish_a baptism_n if_o there_o be_v no_o other_o baptism_n in_o the_o world_n to_o be_v have_v m._n penry_n say_v one_o while_n that_o they_o ought_v if_o popish_a baptism_n be_v god_n baptism_n which_o before_o he_o deny_v not_o an_o other_o while_n he_o be_v peremptory_a that_o man_n ought_v rather_o to_o keep_v their_o child_n unbaptise_v his_o reason_n be_v because_o we_o ought_v to_o have_v no_o more_o fellowship_n with_o papist_n in_o god_n scruice_n then_o with_o pagane_n idolater_n the_o issue_n therefore_o now_o be_v first_o whether_o infant_n ought_v rather_o to_o be_v keep_v unbaptise_v then_o to_o be_v present_v to_o popish_a baptism_n second_o whether_o no_o more_o fellowship_n be_v to_o be_v have_v with_o papist_n in_o god_n service_n then_o with_o heathen_a idolater_n concern_v the_o first_o question_n m._n caluines_n resolution_n be_v affirmative_a if_o the_o parent_n which_o they_o can_v do_v without_o peril_n of_o life_n do_v public_o detest_v the_o popish_a corruption_n m._n caluines_n reason_n be_v the_o omit_v of_o baptism_n be_v contempt_n of_o christianity_n cal._n epist_n 104._o of_o this_o judgement_n be_v melanchthon_n and_o peter_n martyr_n cal._n epist_n 103._o &_o viretus_fw-la tract_n the_o commun_n fid_fw-we cum_fw-la papist_n cer._n pag._n 61_o 62_o 70._o i_o confess_v free_o that_o this_o be_v a_o very_a weighty_a question_n but_o in_o this_o our_o time_n a_o needless_a question_n and_o that_o man_n of_o great_a excellency_n for_o learning_n have_v their_o several_a judgement_n i_o will_v be_v loath_a to_o stir_v coal_n in_o this_o argument_n touch_v the_o other_o question_n m._n penry_n say_v that_o no_o more_o fellowship_n be_v to_o be_v have_v in_o religion_n matter_n with_o papist_n then_o with_o pagane_n idolater_n i_o dissent_v from_o he_o in_o this_o my_o reason_n be_v first_o the_o papist_n profess_v the_o holy_a trinity_n so_o do_v not_o the_o pagane_n idolater_n second_o the_o papist_n be_v not_o altogether_o alien_n from_o god_n external_a covenant_n but_o the_o heathen_a idolater_n as_o yet_o be_v last_o m._n caluine_n be_v very_o flat_a against_o you_o in_o this_o point_n epist_n 104._o in_o steed_n of_o answer_v his_o reason_n in_o that_o epistle_n you_o appeal_v to_o the_o word_n a_o strange_a kind_n of_o appeal_n when_o m._n caluines_n argument_n be_v draw_v out_o of_o the_o holy_a word_n if_o you_o will_v deal_v plain_o as_o you_o ought_v never_o piddle_v any_o long_o go_v through_o stitch_n withal_o see_v you_o be_v over_o shoe_n adventure_n over_o boot_n too_o confute_v caluines_n 104._o epistle_n and_o that_o which_o he_o have_v write_v very_o excellent_o upon_o the_o 20._o verse_n of_o the_o 16._o chap._n of_o ezechiel_n if_o you_o give_v the_o unset_a and_o fail_v whereof_o i_o make_v no_o question_n you_o shall_v lose_v no_o credit_n of_o learning_n for_o you_o never_o have_v any_o as_o yet_o qui_fw-la semel_fw-la verecundiae_fw-la limit_n etc._n etc._n you_o know_v the_o rest_n i._o penry_n see_v therefore_o in_o popery_n there_o be_v no_o church_n no_o ministry_n no_o christ_n see_v we_o ought_v in_o no_o case_n to_o be_v join_v with_o papist_n in_o their_o religion_n but_o to_o be_v separate_v from_o they_o as_o from_o those_o that_o be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n and_o such_o as_o be_v become_v a_o very_a filthy_a cage_n and_o nest_n of_o unclean_a and_o sacrilegious_a idolater_n therefore_o also_o it_o necessary_o follow_v that_o neither_o our_o popish_a recusant_n nor_o any_o else_o offer_v their_o child_n to_o be_v baptize_v in_o the_o popish_a synagogue_n by_o those_o pollute_a and_o unclean_a priest_n may_v assure_v themselves_o that_o they_o can_v be_v there_o partaker_n of_o true_a baptism_n as_o touch_v the_o substance_n of_o baptism_n r._n some_o see_v therefore_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o learned_a man_n and_o all_o reform_a church_n there_o be_v in_o