those Ceremonies To bée briefe the first Catholique church did acknowledge none to bée her vniuersall head but Christ Iâ—sus onely and shée submitted her selfe to bee gouerned in matters of faith by his spirite which spirite did in déede gouerne hir in the vnderstanding of the scriptures which are the rule of Christian Religion And in ciuill gouernement shee submitted herselfe to Princes and other Potentats acknowledging that God hath giuen vnto them the power of the sword and hath made them his reuengers vpon earth coÌ„maunding them to vse that power in defending innocents and in punishing of such as doo transgresse his lawes But your Romish Catholique church must haue a Pope to bee hir vniuersall head vnder the name of Christes vicar generall and hee must haue absolute power vpon earth diriued from the Apostle Peter that neuer tooke vpon him selfe any such power but willed all Christians to submit themselues to all estates of men euen for the Lord Iesus sake Yea hee willed them to honour all men to loue brotherly fellowship to feare God and to honour the king 1. Peter 2. 1. Peter 2. But your Pope must haue power ouer all men euen ouer Princes to whom Peter submitted him selfe and willed al christians to doo the like Yea hée must haue power to depose all such Princes as will not bow to him and bee his Executioners in executing the paines of death vpon all such as it pleaseth him to take for Heretikes Such Princes dooth your Pope take vpon him to depose to depriue them of all princely dignitie to set vp in their place such as will submit them selues vnto him become his sworne vassalles And that he may the more easily bring these things to passe hée absolueth all the subiects of such Princes from their dutifull oth of obedience which they haue dutifully taken to those their leage and naturall Princes Yea as late and daily practises doo teach they spare not to promise the kingdome of God to such subiects as will most vndutifully most vnnaturally murder not onely their naturall countrimen but also their naturall Princes By these differences it apreareth how great the difference is betwixt the first Romish church which was in déede Catholique and yours which you call catholique but is in déede Cacolike But now you conclude that if the learned Protestant can prooue that the priuate conuenticles congregations of the Protestants were the first bringers foorth of the sacred Bible and written woord of God the chiefe preseruers and defenders of the same in all times and ages from all Iewes Gentiles Heretikes and schismatiks then you wil reuolt and recant as you haue saide before To this I say on the behalfe of the learned Protestant that neither the Catholique church nor any other congregations haue bin the first bringers foorth of the sacred Bible c. For those bookes which are called the Bible were brought foorth and written before our sauiour Christ sayd thus to the Iewes Scrutamini scripturas c. Ioh. 5. Ioh. 5. Serch the scriptures c. And as for the preseruing and defending of them from Iewes Gentiles c. I say that it hath not bin the worke of man but of God him selfe who is the only Author of the same Apocal. 6. In the sixt chapter of saint Iohns Reuelations it is written that when the third seale of that booke which was sealed with seuen seales was opened there was a voyce which came from the midst of the foure beasts which saide to him that sate vpon the blacke horse had a balaunce in his hand Wine and oyle see thou doo not hurt In the iudgment of all learned interpreters wine and oyle doo in that place signifie the scriptures which God would not suffer to bee hurt by any mans interpretation no not in the time of most déepe Ignorance The Iewes could neuer corrupt the text of the Canonicall scriptures although they lacked no good will to haue corrupted them Neither could your Popish catholiques at any time corrupt those scripcures for God hath reserued a Remnant of the Iewes with whom those scriptures are and alwaies haue bin had in such estimation and reuerence that they would neuer leaue them to any that would corrupt them and this hath God wrought by them vsing them as his instruments therein In like manner the Grecians haue bin his instruments in kéeping the Gréeke text both of the olde and newe testament from all manner of Corruption in all partes thereof that doo concerne any parte of the substance of our Religion so that though your Popish Catholiques would as no doubt they are willing enough yet they can not corrupt either the Hebrew or Gréeke text Thus if you will you may sée maister Offerer that God alone by such meanes as hée hath dooth and will vse hath bin the bringer foorth of the sacred Bible and other holy scriptures for the holy men of God did speake as the holy spirite of God did mooue them to speake 2. Pet. 1. 2. Peter 1. And it is hée that hath vsed his good meanes both in discerning of the holy writings from the prophane and also in preseruing and defending of them from all maner corruption Wherefore if you minde to bée as good as your woord you must reuolt and recant The third Offer The Offerer Third Shew mee good reason why yee Protestants doo belieue our Catholique Church enforming and telling you this to bee the woord of God written the true Bible and sacred scriptures and doo refuse to credit hir in the true sense and vnderstanding of the same Scripture shee being vndoubtedly led with the spirite of God in them both For if the Catholique Church had the spirit of God in discerning and iudging the true Scriptures of God from the rest not Scriptures why should not wee belieue that same Catholique church gouerned and led by the same spyrite in giuing the true sense meaning and vnderstanding of the Scriptures When yee shal be able to render a sufficient reason of the one and not of the other I shall then yeelde and recant and not before Crowley There is no reason why wée should shewe you good reason why wée doo that thing which none of vs either haue done doo or minde to doo In beliuing that the Bible and scriptures that wee haue is the true Bible and scripture wée doo as the people of Sichar did Iohn the fourth chapter They said to the woman that told them of Iesus Iam non propter tuam orationem credimus c. Iohn 4. Now doo wée belieue not bicause of the tale that thou hast told vs for wee our selues haue heard and doo know that this is very Christ the sauiour of the world Euen so wee confesse that when wee were amongst you wée heard you talke of a Bible scriptures wée were desirous to sée them but you kept them from vs by all the meanes that you coulde deuise but at the
Arragon and made warre against the sayd king of Arragon About the yeere of our Lord 1280. Pope Bonifacius 8. in a great glorie shewed him selfe twice First in his pontificalibus granting large pardons to the people and on the next day in the imperiall robes hauing a naked sworde carried before him And as hée sate in his maiestie hée cried with a lowde voyce saying Ecce duo gladij hic Behold héere are two swords This was about the yeere 1300. A Frier of the Order of the popish preachers did poyson Henry the seuenth Emperor by deliuering vnto him a consecrated hoste as they terme it wherein hee had put a stronge poyson which dispatched him About the yéere 1310. Pope Clement the sixt hauing excommunicated Lewes the Emperor and all the Princes and bishops that tooke parte with him sayd that now th' Empire was fallen vnto him and therefore he placed captaines in the cities of Italy This was about the yeere 1340. Pope Vrbane the sixt in hatred toward Clement the 7. whom the Frenchmen had chosen to be Pope tooke fiue Cardinalles and lapped them in one sacke and drowned them This was doone about the yéere 1380. A singular example of true charitie Yea and a singular example of obedience is to be seene in Alexander the third of whom I spake before in that hee admitting the Emperor Frederike surnamed Barbarossa to the kissing of his foote did set his foote in the Emperors neck pronouncing these woords of the Psalme 91. Super aspidem c. Vpon the Adder and Basiliske shalt thou walk and thou shalt stamp vpon the Lyon the Dragon This was done about the yeere 1170. And Celestinus the fourth when he crowned the Emperor Henry the fift sonne to the foresaid Frederike did set the Emperiall crowne vpon the head of the Emperor with his feete and did topple it of againe with one of his féete in token that as hee had powre to make an Emperor so hée had powre to depose him againe Héere M. Offerer may sée a number of examples of obedience to the higher powers of great grauitie of true charitie euen in such as haue bin the chiefe in his Catholike church if hée can shew mee but one example amongest them that haue bin of the protestants Catholike church like vnto these manifolde examples of commaunding controuling excommunicating persecuting and deposing of the higher powers and triumphing ouer them then will I recant the protestants Catholike religion and professe Poperie as this Offerer dooth and not before But now on the contrarie saith this Offerer if discord in religion licentiousnes in liuing contempt of discipline reiecting of penaunce lothsomnes of fasting lacke of zeale and deuotion disobedience to maiestrates sacryledge Apostacie breaking of vowes vnlawfull lusts and wantonnes in all life and maners doo not agree better more cleere to the protestants then to the Catholique being the plaine signes fraits of a false church then will I recant and not before As touching discord in religion the Offerer may think him selfe to bee sufficiently answered in that which I haue said to the fiftéenth Offer The rest that hée rehearseth as falâ—â— agréeing to the protestantes religion are not at all agréeable to that religion that the Protestants doo professe For wée say as S. Iames hath written Iacob 1. Iacob 1. If any man doo think him selfe to bee religious and yet refraineth not his owne tounge but suffreth his owne heart to go a stray that mans religion is vayne This is the religion that is pure and vndefiled before God and the father for a man to visite the fatherlesse widowes in their trouble to kéepe him selfe vnspotted of the world Yea wee holde as saint Paule teacheth Coloss 3. Coloss 3. that Christians being risen againe togither with Christ should seeke those thinges that are aboue where Christ is at the right hand of God and not things that are héere on earth Yea anâ— as the same S. Paule wrote to the Phillip 3. Philip 3. that Christians should haue their conuersation in heauen not vpon earth so that although our bodies must be heere for a while yet our mindes must be setled in heauen froÌ„ whence wée looke for a Sauiour euen the Lord Iesus who by that mighty working whereby he is able to subdue all thing to him selfe shall transforme alter and change our vile bodies and make them like vnto his owne glorious body Yea and wée doo holde as S. Paule taught the Romaines Cap. 6. Rom. 6 that such as are baptized are baptized to dye and to bee buried with Christ vnto sinne to be risen againe with him vnto righteousnes of life So that as naturally wée are enclined to make all our partes instruments or tooles of vnrighteousnes procéeding from one vnrighteousnes to another euen so being baptized our duetie is to endeuour to make our bodies and all our partes instruments of righteousnes proceeding from one righteousnes to another Yea and as hee writeth in the 12. Chap. we hold that our duety is to make our bodies a sacrifice to God that is as I take it the most acceptable seruice that wee can doo vnto God Rom. 12. Rom. 13. Yea and as he writeth it the 13. Chap. we hold that wee may make no prouision for the flesh to satisfie the lusts thereof But as he writeth 1. Tim. 6. 1. Tim. 6. hauing meats and drink and cloth necessarie house harbor wée be there with contented Yea we doo hold as S. Peter hath taught 1. Pet. 2. 1 Peter 2. that our dutie is to abstaine from fleshly lusts that fight against the soule and by honest and good conuersation to stop the mouthes of malicious speakers if it be possible to winne them to ioyne with vs in religion that wee may glorifie God togither Now let the indifferent reader iudge howe those foule vices that you doo charge our religion with doo agrée with this our profession It maye that there be some and I confesse that there bee a great number to many amongst vs which are not of vs but doo only beare the name of protestant Catholiques and are in déede of no religion And these are such as you speake of the vices that you name doo very well agree vnto theÌ„ And I pray you hath your popish Catholike church at any time lacked a good rouÌ„d number of such maner of men When your Pope who is the head of your church was such a one as Platina reporteth Iohn the 12. to be MonstruÌ„ hominis A monster amongst men and as Volateran saith Sceleratum hominem A man giuen ouer to all wickednes that he was slaine being taken in adultery And as the same Platina and Volateran doe say of Syluester the second that be gaue himselfe to the deuill that he might be made Pope and that he was made Pope in déede and did gouerne your church foure yeeres togither And your Pope Benedictus the ninth of
gospell and haue imbraced and professed and doo still professe most vnpure Popish religion The booke was first written by the aboue named Iohn de Albine as it may be thought either in the Latine or in the French tonge Wherefore I meane not to bestow any time in the answering of it supposing that either Beza or some other French Protestant hath already dealt therein sufficiently But because the offers séeme to be made by some English man and haue not as I thinke béene aunswered by any man I haue thought good to supply the place of that learned Protestant that the Popish Catholique ment to make the offers vnto And that the Offerer if hee be yet liuing or any fréende of his if he be departed this lyfe may not haue any cause to mislike with my dealing herein I minde to setfoorth to the view of the Reader all the words of the Offerer euen as I finde them and as I haue them to shew in his printed Coppie which I haue and doo mind to kéepe in a readinesse to shewe not abiding or dimnishing altering or changing one sentence worde sillable letter or title The Offerer beginneth thus The Offerer First seeing it cannot bee denied that our sauiour Christ before his departure and ascension did commit the charge and gouernment of his Church the testimony of his worde the truth of his gospell the ministration of his Sacraments to his Apostles and Disciples and that not only for them selues but to their successors Bishops and Priests and to none other saying only to them Euntes docete omnes gentes Math. 28. Marc. 16. Goe yee and teach all people and nations of the world baptizing them in the name of the father and of the sonne and of the holy ghoste teaching them to obserue and keepe all things which I haue commaunded you Further the Apostle Saint Paule being at Miletum in executing of his charge gouernment gaue this admonition to the Bishops and Priestes there assembled before him saying Attēdite vobis et vniuer so gregi Act. 20. Take heed vnto your selues and vnto the whole flocke of Christ in the which the holy ghost hath ordayned you Bishops Regere ecclesiam Dei To gouerne the Church of God And in the thirteenth Chapter of his Epistle to the Hebrews hee dooth commaunded all other sortes of men without exception of Emperours Kings Queenes and Princes to obay their Bishops and priestes saying Heb. 13. Obedite praepositis vestris subiacete eis ipsi enim peruigilant quasi rationem pro animabus vestris reddituri Obey your Prelates and doo what they appoint you for they doo watch as men that shall render accomptes for your soules Seeing that by the testimonies before alleadged it can not bee denyed but that the charge and gouernment of Chryst his Church the preaching of his doctrine the admninistration of his Sacramentes was by him committed to his Apostles and Dysciples and to all Byshoppes and Priestes as Successours of them to plante Chrystian fayth and Religion in his Catholique Church vniuersally throughout all Nations Coastes and Quarters of the world Seeing this is by the playnnesse of the sayd testimonies of such an vndoubted truth that it cannot bee denyed now let the learned protestant affirming princes to bee the supreme heades of the Church eyther shew by some such other like playne testymonies of the Scriptures that our Sauiour Chryst did commit the chyefe charge and supreme gouernement of his Church to Emperours Kings Queenes and Princes to plant Christian fayth and Religion in the same or that any one of Chryst his Apostles or Disciples did conuert any people Lande or Countrey from their Idolatrie and Ethnike kinde of liuing to Christian faith and Religion by preaching the doctrine of the Protestants as of onely faith to iustifie the contempt of good workes and that they be all vncleane in sight of GOD the deniall of free will of the real presence of Christes body in the holy Eucharist of the Sacrifice of the most blessed Masse the abolishing Christ his Sacramentes and of all grace and goodnesse by them conferred vnto vs then I shall yeelde and recant and not before Thus farre the first part of the Offer Crowley This Offerer hath deuided this offer of his into 22. parts adding to the last part six certaine and assured signes and tokens of false Prophets Heretickes Schismatickes This diuision I meane to follow in mine answer To this first part therfore I say thus maister Offerer I cōfesse that our Sauiour Christ dyd as you haue sayd committe the charge and gouernement of his Church the testimonye of his worde the trueth of his Gospell and the ministration of his Sacramentes to his Apostles and Scholers and to theyr successors But not to such successours onely as you do name that is to Bishops and Préestes onely and to none other For S. Paule in the 12. Chapter of his first Epistle to the Corinthians and in the 4. to the Ephesians writing of the same matter sayth thus Et ipse dedit quosdam quidem Apostolos Eph 4. quosdam autem Prophetas alios vero Euangelistas alios autem Pastores Doctores And he hath giuen some Apostles or Messengers and some Prophettes and other some Euangelistes and some others Pastors and teachers And againe in the 12. of the first to the Corinthians hee writeth thus 1 Cor 12. Et quosdam posuit Deus in Ecclesia primum Apostolos secundo Prophetas tertio Doctores deinde virtutes exinde gratias curationum opitulationes gubernationes genera linguarum God hath place in his Church certaine degrees of men first Apostles secondly Prophets thirdly teachers then powers after that giftes of healings helpes gouernements kindes of tongues Least you should quarell about the translating of S. Paules wordes out of the Gréeke I haue set them downe as I finde them in that translation that your Tridentine councell hath allowed of But I pray you good M. Offerer what meant S. Paule that in the rehearsall of those sundry degrées of men that God hath placed in his Church he would make no mentiion at al of your Bishops and Préestes to whom onely as to the onely successours of his Apostles and Disciples Christ spake if you haue written truely when he sayd thus Math. 28 Euntes docete omnes gentes Goe ye and teach all nations of the worlde c. Without all doubt S. Paule dyd know and so doo wée that God dyd neuer place in his Church or appoint to succéede his Apostles and Disciples any such Bishops and Préestes as you meane of That is Lording and loitring Bishops exercising dominion ouer the peoples that are alotted vnto them and sawsie sacrificing Préests which presume to occupie the place of Christ himselfe and to execute his office in offering sacrifice for the sinnes of the people S. Peter disaloweth the one 1. Pet. 5. and S. Paule the other Hebr. 10. Hebr 1◠1 Peter ◠Yea if our
assisted mee but all men left mee alone God graunt it bee not layde to their charge c. If this Offerer his fellowes haue any eyes to sée they may sée that when the Apostle Paule being in prison in Rome did write this Epistle to Timoth. the Bishops and priests that then were in Rome were scarce worthy the name of Christians bicause they durst not stand to the profession of Christian Religion as S. Paule did but left him all alone betraying the Christian cause as much as in them lay Yea and hereof it may bée probably gathered that Peter was not then at Rome and consequently that hee was not Bishop of Rome for the space of xxv yéeres togither as the Romish Catholiques doo affirme that hee was Yea rather it may bée thought that hee neuer was Bishop of Rome for this Epistle was written in Rome the 13. yeere of the raigne of Nero which was the 35. yeere after saint Paule was conuerted to Christ But if hee were then Bishop of Rome hée was at that time either fled from Rome fearing the persecution or els being in that Citie hée durst not shew him selfe to bée of one minde with Paule and so by his example the rest that then were Christians in Rome withdrew them selues from Paule and left him all alone Thirteene yeeres before this the Apostle Paule had written to the Romaines being then at Corinth in the last yeere of the raigne of Claudius the Emperour And as it appeareth in the first Chapter of that Epistle the fame of that Church was such at that time that saint Paule wrote thus Primum quidem gratias ago Deo meo Rom. 1 per Iesum Christum pro omnibus vobis quia fides vestra annuntiatur in vniuerso mundo First of all I giue thankes to my God thorough Iesus Christ on the behalfe of you all for that your faith is declared through out the whole world The Church therefore or Congregation of Christians that then were in Rome were of the best sort of Christians And bicause that Citie was then the chiefe City that then was in the world therefore the fame of their faith was spred ouer all the world But yet as appeareth by that which is before alleaged they had their faults and infirmities which were seene in them more at one time then at another At the first when they receiued the doctrine of the gospell they were earnest professors and followers of the same as commonly men haue bin in our daies and are still but when persecution began to arise for the professing thereof they began to shew them selues to bee like that seede that being sowne fell in stony ground and yet being againe moystened with that dew of Gods grace which fell from aboue they tooke déepe roote and so became more fruitfull in the ende For many of that age gaue their liues for the testimony of the truth and were Martirs or witnesses of Iesus Christ as in the Church Histories dooth appeere But that these were the writers of the Scriptures appeareth not in any Histories for they were written before some by the Prophets and some by the Apostles and such bookes as were written after the time wherein the other Apostles liued were written by the Apostle Iohn which liued after all the rest As touching the especiall care that you say the Catholique Church hath from time to time had not only of preaching the word but also of preseruing the same c all learned Protestants doo know that no man could haue greater care to preach the woord to discerne the bookes of holy scripture from prophane writings and to preserue them from the corruption of the aduersaries then they that in the time of the tenne first persecutions professed the Catholique religion And amongst those Catholiques none were more forwarde therein then were they which then were dwelling in the City of Rome But what maketh this for proofe that the Romish Church hath alwaies bin and is still the keeper and preseruer of the scriptures The first Romish Church which was Catholique preached the gospell as the Apostles and Disciples of Christ had doone but that Romish church that now is and hath bin for the space of these last thousand yéeres almost being Antichristian dooth and hath all this while preached mens traditions is to bee noted with that saying that the Prophet Esay vsed in reprehending the Leuiticall Priestes of his time Esay 29. Esay 29. Cited by our sauiour Christ Math. 15. Math. 15. Populus hic labijs me honorat c. This people honour mee with their lips they draw nighe vnto mée with their mouth but their heart is farre from mée In vaine doo they worship mée in teaching the doctrines and commaundements of men c. The first Romish Church vsed the Sacraments that Christ had instituted religiously and to that end that our sauiour Christ had instituted them for but that Romishe Church which you call Catholique hath for the space of these 1000. yeeres almost and dooth still abuse those Sacraments namely Baptisme and the Supper of the Lord commonly called the Sacrament of the body and blood of our sauiour Christ For that Church dooth minister that sacrament to Churches to Belles and to Ships that saile on the seas and of the other sacrament they make an Idole lifting it vp ouer their heads to bee worshipped setting it vpon their high alter or hanging it ouer the same burning incense before it and vsing iestures of diuine honour before it and carying it abroade in pompous maner compelling the people to doo diuine honour to it Yea they offer it vp to God as a sacrifice for the sinnes both of the quick the dead and in tempests of weather and in coniurations they make it a bug to feare the diuell withall The first Catholique Church in their exercise of Religion did vse as few Ceremonies as might bee for they knew that our sauiour Christ had broken downe that midle walle or particion which was the lawe of Ceremonies contayned in the lawe written and had through the flesh bin the occasion that discord whereby the nations of the worlde were so seuered from the people of Israell that they could neuer ioyne with them in one religion till our sauiour Christ had made it voyde and made of both the people 's but one new man making peace that he might reconcile both in one body And Ephe. 2. Ephe. 2. But your Romish Catholique Church hath reedified a new middle walle or particion of a law of Ceremonies not contayned in the law written but diuised by men And that particion they doo still maintaine and vphold enforcing all men that will beare the name of Christ and bée called Christians to allow of and to vse those Ceremonies and all such as doo refuse those Ceremonies they doo excommunicate and deliuer to the secular powre to bée consumed to ashes with fire or otherwise to bée tormented onely bicause they refuse to vse
eyther admit any to be of the fellewship of Christians or by excommunication cut of any man from that body of Christ but onely that knowen Catholique church of Christ which is builed vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ being the head cornerstone You doo therefore offer vs great iniurie in that you require vs to prooue that which we dyd neuer affirme But I sée what stone it is that the Offerer dooth so often stumble at He is perswaded that there can be no knowen Catholique Church of Christ but that Romishe Church whereof he himselfe is a member which is now manifestly knowen to be an Antichristian congregation and not the knowen Catholique Church of Christ as the Offerer and hys fellowes would beare vs in hand that it is The knowen Catholique Church of Christ hath alwayes vsed to execute ecclesiasticall censures vpon such as haue béene offensiue in lyfe and manners and vpon such as haue béene disturbers of the common peace of the Church and so doo we at this day without respect of any mans person so farre foorth as in dutifull obedience to such as God hath made our gouernour we may But to excommunicate and depose Princes we haue not learned of S. Paule nor of the Fathers that lyued in the first sixe hundered yéeres after the ascention of our Sauiour Christ Your bragge of 1500. yéeres continuance in the executing of your discipline must bee cut shorter by 600. yéeres for your Catholique Antichristian Church hath not floryshed in her pride full one thousand yéeres as yet neither haue you executed your tirannous discipline in such sorte as you would séeme to haue doone in that tyme of your tirannous raigne But whensoeuer you tooke in hand to execute any discipline you had and so yée haue still a speciall regarde to your owne ease and commoditie and to the aduanceing and vpholding of your owne honour and dignity Your owne Histories are full of the reportes of your corrupt and partiall dealinges in that behalfe It is God himselfe that hath prescribed an order of discipline and hath in all tymes and ages committed the execution thereof to hys Church which hath had continaunce euen from the beginning of the world This discipline was first engrauen in the hartes of men and after that in tables of stone and last of all in bookes that by those outwarde meanes the discipline grauen in the hart might be daily refreshed but euen the best men that haue béene in Authority in the Church and haue had the execution of thys discipline haue béene to slacke in that he halfe as by histories it appeareth No maruaile therfore though to great slacknes in the execution of this discipline be found in that Church which you and your sorte doo account to be Schismaticall but is in déede Catholique and that knowen Catholique Church from which your Antechristian Church is fallen That discipline that you make so great a reckoning of is your cannon lawe I am sure which your Popes haue patched together since they gate the vpper hand and enforced Princes to doo them seruice and to kysse their féete That discipline you execute with Precipimus firmiter iniungendo mandamus Wee charge you say you and with firme iniūction we commaund you And what is it that you doo thus commaund to be doone That such a man or such a woman as hath not appeared in your courte or hath refused to pay such fées as your officers requyre or that hath failed in dooing some acte that by that lawe they are bound to doo be denounced excommunicated sub pena iuris Vnder payne of hauing the penalty of the Lawe executed vppon that minister that wyll not denounce such a one excommunicated But if a whore or a whoremonger a drunkarde or a blasphemer of God an Vsurer or a simmoniacke or any other wicked person shal be conuented before your ecclesiasticall iudge if hys pursse be waightie and his hande readie to reache out money in paying double fées and in giuing to such vses as you cal Godly so that you may haue the disposing therof then this party must be receiued as a communicant amongest Christians although it doo appeare manyfestly that there is neyther amendment of lyfe nor hope of repentaunce shewed any way And would God that our execution of discipline were more frée from this corruption then it is But that wyll not be so long as so many of your minde may be suffered to bée in offyce vnder them that haue the execution of discipline I thinke you doo now sée that the right dscipline hath not béene prouided and made by men neither of your sorte nor of ours but by God himselfe And that there hath béen and is still as great yea greater corruption vsed in the executing of discipline amongst you as is or hath béene amongst vs. Yea and that your Church which is Antichristian hath not had the continuance of 1500. yéeres in that glory that now it dooth claime vnto it selfe Wherfore I doo require you now to recant according to promise although you would not before The seauenth Offer Offerer Seauenth Let me knowe of the Protestantes what Church hath brought forth for the space of these fifteene hundered yeeres past as Children begotten of her owne wombe so many thousandes of blessed Martyrs of stoute and bolde confessers of pure and innocent virgins and of other holy Saintes of all sortes and so acknowledged by eyther party And if it shal in fine fall out that any one of them was of the Protestantes congregation fayth or beleefe whiles they liued heere and not of the common knowen fayth and religion of the Catholique Church of Christ or that they were approoued and canonized for Saintes when they were dead by the Protestantes congregation not onely by the Catholique Church of Christ I shall then submit and recant and not before Crowley It séemeth that M. Offerer hath conceiued a wrong opinion of vs Protestantes He séemeth to be perswaded that none of vs haue seene the Histories of the Church Otherwise he had béene too too madde to make this large Offer For any Protestant that hath reade any thing of the Ecclesiasticall Histories may easily enforce him eyther to flie from his promisse or else to submitte himselfe and recant If any one sayth hée amongst the thousandes of the blessed Martyrs c. Shal be found to haue béene of the Protestantes fayth and religion c. Then he wyll submit hymselfe and recant I am sure of it that amongst the thousands that suffered Martirdome within the space of the first six hundereth yeres after Christs ascention he can not name one that was not whiles he liued of the same faith religion that we be of now Al we do beleue al the articles of the common tréed so did they we do beléeue that as there is but one God so there is but one mediatour betwixt God man and that the same is the man Christ Iesus
yéeres euen as the tares doo springe vp amōgest the good graine before the time of Haruest yet the field remaineth still a corne field not a field of tares yet the church was still Catholike till the whole state did professe Antichristianisme began to persecute such as continued in the profession of the auncient true Catholike religion which is the same that wée doo now professe you and your sorte doo persecute These haue not bin the worke of cōuenticles priuate congregations as it pleaseth you to terme all the particuler churches of Christ that refuse to take the marke of the beast and to acknowledge your Antichristian church to bee the knowne Catholike church of Christ but they haue bin the fruits that haue spronge out of the same faith and religion that was taught by Christ him selfe by his immediate Apostles receiued belieued professed by the first Catholike christians and is still professed by vs and is fruitfull in vs when ability and oportunity dooth serue In the daies of king Edward the sixt of blessed memory who founded in London Christs Hospitall for the education of fatherles infants S. Bartholmews Hospitall in smithfield and S. Thomas Hospitall in Southwarke for the curing of diseased persons did not the protestant Catholikes make those charitable prouisions doo not they still maintaine the same This Offerer may remēber that his Antichristian catholikes did in the time of quéene Maries raigne attempt to ouerthrowe those foundations agayne Who were the founders of Christs Colledge S. Iohns Trinitie Colledge in Oxforde of Emanuell Marimagdalen Caius Colledge in Cambridge did they not beare the name of protestant Catholikes that founded them Many grammer Schooles also might be named diuers other prouisions that protestant catholikes haue made both for the maintenance and increase of learning and also for the succouring of the poore and néedy If any tares doo spring vp amogst this good graine that haue bin sowne by the enuious man it is no fruit that springeth out of that good faith religion that we professe If your word promise therfore be any thing worth thē I require you to doo the part of an honest man in yéelding recanting The foureteenth Offer Offerer Fourteenth Let the learned protestant name any one fellowship or company of belieuers in the whole Christian world that in all articles of faith and religion be in one vnity in one meaning and beliefe and contented also to captiue submit their seueral meanings to the iudgment of their prelats and spirituall gouerners and of one chiefe head pastor amongst them in all Ecclesiasticall things and causes let I say the learned protestant name any one company thus agreeing amonge themselues and thus humbly affected in Christian faith and religion sauing onely the holie and blessed fellowship of the common knowne Catholike church of Christ and I will then recant and not before Crowley Vnderstanding by the holy blessed fellowship of the cōmon known Catholike church of Christ as I am assured that you doo that Antichristian church that you are of I cōfesse that there cānot any one fellowship or cōpany of belieuers in the whole christian world be named that is such a fellowship or cōpany as you would haue the learned protestant name vnto you for in very déed there is not one fellowship or cōpany of belieuers in the whole world so foolish as to vēter the saluation of their foules vpon the iudgmēt of other men but only that fellowship whereof you are But I doo vtterly deny the fellowship to be the knowne Catholike church of Christ and am bold plainely to affirme that it is the malignant cursed church of Antichrist the filthy synagogue of satan The knowne Catholike church of Christ whereof wée hée dooth agrée in one vnity in one meaning beliefe in all the Articles of the christian faith religion Yea wée all with that whole Catholike church doo captiue submit our seueral meanings to that rule of religion that the holy ghost hath set downe in the scriptures which rule wée doo know to be so perfect that it néedeth no addition alteration or change that man can deuise And as for one chiefe head Pastor we acknowledge none amongst men being assured that our one onely head Christ Iesus that hath promised to be with vs continually euen to the end of the world neither is nor will be from vs but is and still will be with vs and dooth still and will by the working of his holy spirite instruct and leade vs in the true vnderstanding of that rule of our religion that he hath left vnto vs so that wée doo not neither shal we at any time stand in néede of any such chief heade or Pastor as this Offerer speaketh of As for Prelates spirituall gouerners we haue such as bée able to breake minister vnto vs the spirituall foode of our soules as well by preaching expounding vnto vs that rule of our religion as by ministring the sacraments that our sauiour Christ hath ordained commaunded to bée vsed in his Church To these wée giue credit so longe as wée sée that they swarue not from that rule that both they and wée are bounde to followe and they doo not desire to haue credit any further And as touching their example of life wée doo followe it so far foorth as wée sée that they followe Christ and no further For S. Paule did not wish the Corinthians to follow him further then they should sée that hée followed Christ If you bée not obstinately bent to stand to your takling against all reason and christian knowledge this that I haue héere written may suffice to mooue you to recant although hitherto you haue refused so to doo The fifteenth Offer Offerer Fifteene Againe I do demande of the learned protestant whether the Lutherans Zuinglians Illirians Caluinists Confessionists Svvinkfildians Anabaptists and such like be all of one church and congregation or no And if he be able to prooue these sects being of such diuersity in faith and religion to make one church and that euery one of them may giue saluation to their fellowes being so disagreeable one with another in high pointes of faith and religion or that I ought to belieue all those rather then the one true Catholike church of Christ or yet any of these more one then another all of them making such a bolde challenge of the truth of Gods word and gospell When the learned Protestant shal be able by good reason or drift of argumēt to satisfie these my requests then I shall yeelde and recant and not before Crowley If I did not knowe that this Offerer is past all shame I could not meruell enough to sée that he would demaunde of the learned Protestant a proofe by good reason and drift of argument that Luther Zuinglius Illiricus Caluin the Confessionists Swinkfild and the Anabaptists should bée members all
orderly succession of Bishops the vniformitie of solemne Ceremonies and the vnitie of faith that hath in her selfe all holy functions of the spirite as working of miracles remission of sinnes the true cence and interpretation of Gods word that is beautified with diuersity of states commended by Christ as with Martirs with Confessors holy virgins and such other Let the Protestant prooue vnto me that this is not the true Church and that we are not bound to obey and beleeue this Church and none other in al controuersies doubts vprising eyther by the difficulty of Scripture or by vayne contention and pride of Heretickes and I wyll yeelde and recant and not before Crowley The Protestant hath already prooued that the Church whereof this Offerer is a member hath not béene of so long continuaunce as fiftéene hundreth yéeres Yea and that there be not yet a full thousand yéeres past since that Church became of such power and estimation in the world as now it dooth challendge to it selfe and as this Offerer dooth bragge of That Church which is Catholique in déede whereof all right Protestāts be members hath bad continuance euen euer since this promise was made in the daies of the first man I wyll put enimitie betwixt thée and the woman betwixt thy séede and her séede her séede shall breake thy heade and thou shalt assalt his héele Gen 3. These wordes dyd God him selfe speake to the sperpent and this promise dyd the first man and his wyfe beléeue and they and theyr faithfull posteritie dyd from time to time looke for and long after the performaunce of this promise euen tyll our Sauiour Christ which is that blessed séede of the woman had in déede performed it Our Sauiour Christ speaking of this looking for and longing after sayd thus to his disciples Many Prophets and Princes haue desired to sée those things that you sée and haue not séene them and to heare those wordes that you heare and haue not heard them Luc. 10. Lucae 10 And againe speaking to the Iewes he sayd Your father Abraham dyd aduaunce him selfe that he might sée my day and he dyd sée it and reioyce in it Iohn 8. Iohn 8. And this Catholique Church hath continued still in all troubles and persecutions and dooth continue to this day and so shall to the ende still reioysing in the day of Christ that is already past and looking and longing after that day of his that is yet to come which is the day of his appearing in glory when all his shall appeare with him in glorie Colo 3. Coloss 3 This Church hath had the vse of Sacraments euer since Sacraments were instituted But before Abrahams time there was not any Sacrament ordayned for the first Sacrament was Circumcision and the other Sacrament was the Passe-ouer which was instituted in the dayes of Moses By this it appeareth that the Church was before the sacramentes were and so it followeth by good consequence that Sacramentes are not necessarily required to the constituting of a Church Yea and after those Sairamentes were instituted the vse of them was by occasion intermitted and yet the Church that dyd intermit the vse of those Sacramentes was still the Church of God notwithstanding the intermitting of the vse of the Sacraments As in the time of the people of Isralites béeing in the wildernes which was fortie yéeres both Circumcission and the Passeouer were intermitted and yet that people were styll accounted to bée and were in déede the Church of God Euen so our Sauiour Christ haueing fulfilled the lawe did institute two Sacramentes in the place or stéede of those two that were before hys incarnation namely Baptisme and the Sacrament of his body and blood and left them to hys Church with commaundement that they should bee vsed in hys Church and therfore the Church of Christ may not refuse to vse them But yet if by iust occasion the Church shal be enforced to intermit the vse of them for as long or longer tyme then the Isralites dyd intermit the vse of theyr Sacramēts this may not be thought to be a iust cause to account that Church to be no Catholique Church which hath for a tyme intermitted the vse of Sacramentes But that Catholique Church whereof we Protestants be members hath not any at time intermitted the vse of these two Sacraments that Christ hath ordayned no not in the tyme of most bloody persecution as in most auncient Histories it dooth appeare And after the ende of those bloody persecutions which dyd continue almost to the ende of the first 300. yéeres after Christes ascention the same Church dyd continue the vse of the same Sacramentes publiquely and openly which before that time bloodie Tirrannie would not suffer them to doo But when the tyme of Apostacie was come and the man of sinne of whom S. Paule wrote 2 Thessa 2. 2 Thessa 2 had gotten the vpper hand then this Church was inforced to leaue that open vse that of Sacraments that it had continued for the space almost of 300. yéeres and to vse them as before shee had doone in the time of the first bloody persecutions For the Romane Church béeing fallen away from the Catholique Church became as bloodily minded as euer the Romane Empire had béene Thus the Catholique Church whereof wee bée members hath continued and dooth stil continue the vse of those Sacraments that Christ hath instituted As for confirmation order and that which you call penaunce matrimony and extreame vnction wée doo not acknowledge to bée Sacraments because they agrée not with the definition or discription of a Sacrament which is a visible signe of an inuisible spirituall grace instituted by Christ him selfe we knowe and doo confesse that confirmation is a good order and may bée vsed to the edification of the Church and therfore it is appointed by publique Authority that when younglinges shal be instructed so that they shal be able in some measure to make profession of the Christian fayth they shal bée brought to the Bishop that by prayer to God for them and laying on of his handes vpon them they may bée the better confirmed in that faith which they haue learned and professed The ordering of ministers we allowe of also as of a good profitable order in the Church for we know that no man may take vpon himselfe that honour but such as shal be called thereunto as Aron was And therefore as great care as may be is taken in the chosing of such as shal be admitted to the ministry and as great circumspection in the admitting Heb. 5. If any fault be in this behalfe it is not in the lawe that prescribeth a good and perfect order to be obserued herein but in the lacke of care that may be in such as haue the execution of the law As touching that which you cal penance wée doo neither accept of it as of a Sacrament because we knowe that it is none neyther doo we take
such haue a care to doo as Saint Paule dooth there exhorte when he sayeth Let euery one that calleth vpon the name of the Lord depart from euill And in so dooing they doo in some sorte make it knowen vnto men that they be the elected and chosen children of God But this knowledge can not bée so certaine that any one man may be therby assured of the election of an other because he séeth him depart from euil For gods sercet election can not be certainly knowen by any outward signes therfore the church of Christ as it consisteth of the number that God hath in his secret election appointed to be enheritors of his kingdome may rightly be sayd to be inuisile as knowen onely to God and vnknowen vnto men 2 Timoth cap. 2 But as it followeth in the same text of S. Paule to Timoth As in a great house there are vesselles not onely of golde and of siluer but of timber and of clay also some appoynted to honest vses some to dishonest euen so is it in the Church of Christ which is the housholde of God some are of one sorte and some of an other And this mixed multitude is visible and knowen to bée that number of people that beareth the name of Christ and is called christian And in thys multitude are those elected and chosen children of God that may rightly bée called the church of Christ in this respect may the secret church of Christ be called visible Math 13. This thing dooth our Sauiour Christ set foorth plainely in the parable of the net that being cast into the sea doth drawe together fishes of all sortes but when this nette is drawen to the shore the fisher men doo chuse out the good fishes and cast away the other as vnprofitable And againe in the parable of the fielde both the good graine and the tares doo growe togeather and the féelde is called the corne féeld and not the féelde of tares tyll the tyme of the Haruest bée come but then the good grayne is gathered into barnes and the tares are bound in bundles to bée burnte in the fyer Euen so the open and knowē church which is visible séene and hearde consisting of men women and children of all sortes continueth and shall continue a myxed multitude euen till the haruest which is the ende of the world shall come And then he that now dooth alone knowe his chosen Church shall make the same knowen to all men by receiuing them to himselfe and by refusing of the rest Thus this Offerer and his fellowes may sée howe the Church of Christ may be sayd to bee inuisible and yet not denied to bée visible But it is manifest what stone it is that these men doo stumble at They are perswaded that the Church of Christ must néeds be alwaies in such floorishing estate here on earth as the Church of Roome is now and as it hath continued for many yéeres togeather But they should consider that the woman the S. Iohn sawe Apoc 12. Apoc. 12. was driuen into wildernes by the crueltie of the Dragon as I haue noted in mine aunswer to the ninth offer and yet she is stil cloathed with the Sunne and hath the moone vnder her féete and is crowned with the 12. starres Yea she is the Cittie situated on the hyll the light of the world and the candle set on the candlesticke as she was euen in those daies of horrible persecution when the Bishops of Roome had no dwelling place in Roome nor the Christians in Roome any open Church to méete in for theyr exercise of Christian religion Looke well to that which I haue written in aunswer to the ninth offer and then I hope you will not charge vs as you haue doone As touching the admonitton that S. Paule gaue to the Hebrewes Hebr 13. in the 13 Chapter of that Epistle I wishe you to weighe it well and to consider the time and what doctrine was vsuall in that tyme wherein the wordes of that admonition were written Which if yée would doo you should finde that your doctrine for the real presence of Christs bodie in the holy Eucharist for the Sacrifice of the masse and the propitiation of sinnes both of the quicke and the deade thereby for your penaunce with the fruites thereof your straightnes of lyfe your vowes inuocation of Saintes and your prayer for soules departed and such lyke are the various and strange doctrines that Saint Paule dooth warne you of For all those doctrines were straung in those daies and scarcely was any one of them hearde of Thinke therefore that S. Paule sayeth vnto you be not ledde or caried away with the diuers and straung doctrines of Transubstantiation of massing for the quicke the dead of satisfying for sinnes by penaunce enioyned by a ghostly father by fasting watching praying vowing inuocating of Saints c. For they are not agréeing but contrarie to the receiued and commonly knowen doctrine of Christes Catholique church When the Popish antichristian catholiques can be able to prooue that the high Préests Scribes and Phariseis were not the raysers vppe of those contentions and strifes that were styrred vp in the dayes wherein Christ and hys apostles preached in Ierusalem and Iewrie but Christ his apostles by preaching the doctrine of the Gospell And that the contentions and strifes that haue béene and bee styll styrred vp in our dayes haue not béene nor are styll styrred vp by them by theyr preaching and maintayning of theyr strange doctrines of transubstantiation such lyke but by vs that béeing members of the most auncient Catholike Church doo preach the same catholique doctrine that Christ and hys Apoles dyd preach and none other then wyll I recant and become a Papist and not before And because I haue in the iudgement of all indifferent readers sufficiently prooued that which this Offerer hath in this Offer required the learned Protestant to prooue I doo requyre him to doo as becommeth an honest man in performing his promise Which is to submit him selfe and to recant although hetherto he haue refused so to doo The fourth signe and token of false Prophets Offerer Fourth signe and token of false Prophets Heretiques and Schismatiques is Schisma in Ecclesiam introducere To bring into the Church of Christ by their doctrine schisme diuision and seperation of one member from another and of the whole mistical body from the true head Iesus Christ For where as the health and saluation of Christ hys flocke and people dooth most cheefely consist in peace concord and vnitie they therefore which by Schisme doo deuide and disperse his flocke and of one societie and fellowship before doo make many and diuers they in not spareinge nor preseruing in vnitie the flock of Christ are become rauening Wolues Th'apostle S. Paule knowing the great daunger and hurte vprising of Schisme dooth most humbly beseech vs with all dilligent circumspection to auoide the same saying Obsecro vos
fratres per nomen domini nostri Jesu Christi vt idipsum dicatis omnes nō sint in vobis schismata sitis autem perfecti in eodem sensu in eadem sententia 1. Cor 1. I beseech you brethren by the name of our Lord Iesus Christ that you say all one thinge and that there bee no schisme amongst you but be perfect in one minde and one meaning Nowe if the learned Protestant shal be able to prooue that where as about the time of threescore yeeres and aboue we were all not onely in this realme but vniuersally in al other realmes professing Christ of one church of one fayth and religion and of one vnitie therein if hee shal be able to prooue that this late Schisme whereby wee are so deuided and dispersed that some are become Lutherans some Zuinglians some Caluinists some Puritans and Annabaptists dyd proceede from vs and from the common knowen Catholique Church of Christ and not wholy from theyr priuate Church and congregations and of the deceitfull and false doctrine by them preached and taught I shall then stay no longer but yeelde and recant and not before Crowley They that be the bringers of Schismes and diuisions into the Church of Christ c may rightly be said to be false Prophettes Heretiques and Schismatiques And th'apostle Paule dooth very well and loouingly exhorte and beséech vs euen in the name of our Lord Iesus Christ to be all of one minde and that there be no Schismes amongst vs c. But now the learned Protestant must prooue that the late Schisme whereby the people of all Christian realmes are diuided into Lutherans Zuinglians Caluinistes Puritans and Anabaptists did procéede from the common knowen Catholique Church of Christ and not wholy from the Protestants congregations and from their deceitfull doctrine otherwise there is no hope that euer this Offerer will recant and yéelde Well let vs sée what may be said to this offer First as I doo vnderstand the wordes of this Offerer hee affirmeth that till it was within the space of thréescore and some odde yéeres last past there had béene no Schisme brought into the Church of Christ so that before that tyme al were of one Church of one fayth and religion and of one vnitie therein And thus he hath discharged all those olde Heretiques that troubled the Church of Christ in the beginning of the preaching of the Gospel amongst the nations from thense forth till it was within thréescore odde yéeres before the tyme wherein he made this offer None of them may bée taken for false Prophets Heretiques or Schismatiques if thys bée the meaning of this offerers wordes as I thynke it must néedes bée But how soeuer this offerer and his fellowes doo account of these men that then brought Schismes into the Church of Christ we Protestants doo déeme them to be false Prophets Heretiques and Schismatickes yea and members of antichrist and we doo by all meanes possible shunne theyr doctrine and teach all other Christians to shunne them also It may bée that this offerer meant not of any other false Prophets Heretiques or Schismatickes then such as haue troubled the Church of Christ within these thréescore and odde yéeres last past and therefore hee beginneth with Luther Zuinglius c. But if that were his meaning then I must tell him that he and his fellowes the antichristian catholiques are the false Prophets Heretiques and Schismatiques that haue troubled the Catholique Church of Christ all this while many hundrethes of yéeres before euen euer since the dayes of Phocas the Emperour and the dayes of Boniface the thyrd theyr first Apostatate Bishop of Roome As for Luther Zuinglius and Caluine they dyd but departe from the antichristian Schismaticall Church wherin then had béene fostered and ioyned themselues to the true catholique Church of Christ euen as the Apostle Paule leauing the Hipocriticall profession of a Pharisey wherin he had béene brought vp euen at the féete of Gamaliell the good Pharisey ioyned himselfe to the Church and religion of Christ which was not a forsaking of the lawe but a cleauing vnto him that is the perfection of the Lawe Luther Zuinglius and Caluine dyd not take vpon them to be authors of any new religions but they embraced and laboured to maintayne that olde religion that had béene planted by the Apostles and professed by theyr immediate successors And as they could they dyd endeuour to purge it of al such filth as you M. Offerer and your predissessors had begrimed it with If in this busines they dyd not so well in all poyntes as they wished yet theyr meaning béeing good they are to bée helde excused Though they dyd nowe and then buylde timber strawe and stubble yet so long as they did laye no new foundation but dyd set all theyr building vppon the rocke Christ which is the right foundation and the onely foundation for Christians to build vpon they shal be saued as S. Paule hath assured vs. 1 Cor 3. 1 Cor 3. We Protestant Catholiques doo estéeme of these men none otherwise then as of faithfull labourers in the Lords haruest and carefull followers of Christ Iesus If they did in any poynt goe astray as béeing men they might and vndoubtedly dyd our profession is not to followe them Their profession was to followe Christ and so is ours The learned Protestant therefore may conclude that not the knowē catholique Church of Christ but the knowen antichristian Church of Roome whereof this Offerer and his fellowes are members haue by theyr doctrine brought into the Church of Christ Schisme Diuision and seperation of one member from another and of the whole misticall body from the true heade Iesus Christ For you enforce all such as wyll enioy any outwarde peace in this lyfe to submit themselues to the state of the papasie as to theyr vniuersall heade here vpon earth directly contrarie to the commaundement of Christ Math 23. Math 23 Sée that you do not name any man your common father vpon earth for one is your father which is in heauen Neither be ye called masters for Christ only is your maister If we will enioy peace amōgst you we must learne to say thus Our most holy father the Popes holines is heade of the vniuersall Church of Christ And we must acknowledge that his colledge of Cardinalles and the Prelates that he calleth togeather in hys generall councelles binding them by an oath to maintaine the estate of your antichristian Church are our masters or teachers for suche masters our sauiour Christ spake of at that tyme and what so euer they shall teach that must wée beléeue although we doo knowe and sée that they doo teach directly contrarie to that which is taught by the holy ghost in the Scriptures The peace therefore the concorde and the vnitie that you doo maintaine is not in verity and trueth but in impietie and false religion By your Schisme wherein you are growen excéeding