to ioyne with your aduersarie in the very pointe that lieth in controuersie then are you possessed with a dumme spirite and for ought that is to the purpose you can saie nothing The argument whiche you allege out of Opus Tripartitum annexed to the Councel of Constance I marueile that you had the face to bring it forth M. Ievv allegeth obiectioÌ„s made by Doctours against the truth as if they vvere the Doctours ovvne meaning What meane you M. Iewel Is it not there set for an obiection against the truthe And euen there in the nexte Chapter answered and soiled What learned man euer brought in his Defence the Obiections set forth by a Doctour to thintent by the solution of them the truthe maie more clearely appeare By this you shewe your selfe to be very shamelesse and that you care not in what trippes learned menne take you so that for the time it be not espied and you to the vnlearned people seeme a ioily felowe I referre you for the Answere to that Obiection to the chapter there following where you shal finde it fully answered Iewel Pag. 102. Operis Tri part li. 2. cap. 6. CoÌ„cil Tom 2 Like as the Emperour Caligula somitemes tooke of the heaâ— of 〈◊〉 great God Iuppitâ—r and set on an other head of his ovvne euen so by these interpretations and Gloses M. Harding smiteth of Christe his great God M. Iewel should haue said to make it answer to Iuppiter Caligulas great God the only Head of the Church Suetonius Tranquil in Caligula and setteth on the Pope Harding Answer to the former Comparison The 15. Chapt. What Sir doo you compare me with Caligula the Emperour and Christe our Sauiour God and Man with Iuppiter the Idol This comparison is not very handsome But marke gentle Reader how M. Iewel speaketh more honestly of me Christ by M. Iew coÌ„pared to Iuppiter then he was aware Here are Caligula the Emperour and I compared together Iuppiter the Emperour Caligulaes great God and Christe my great God In which comparison as M. Iewel hath ouershot him selfe too foule in comparing Christe with Iuppiter euen so haue I some cause to yelde him a fewe thinne and sclender thankes for that he acknowlegeth Christe to be my great God as he is in deede though this confession seemeth to haue leapt out of his penne vnaduisedly The difference that he would not see standeth in this point that Iuppiters owne head and the head that Caligula tooke to set in place of it could not agree together without monstrous deformitie and inequalitie to Iuppiters bodie Christe the supreme Head of the whole Churche Christ the head inuisible by iÌ„fluence of and the Pope who is but Christes Vicare his ministerial head or vnderhead doo maruelously agree together So that the one is the Inuisible Head continually by influence of grace the Pope the Visible Head eche Pope for his time to keepe Visible rule and Order emong the people by visible meane whereof as being menne they haue neede An other difference he might haue seene also if it had pleased him that Iupiter the Idol had no people vnder him to be exercised in the absence of his owne head in the vse and right faith of the holy Sacramentes Christe our Sauiour is visibly absent for the exercise of Christian peoples faith in him and in the holy Sacramentes Whose visible absence if it were not supplied by a visible general Head vnder whom the people might be ruled there would folowe infinite disorder and Babylonical Confusion Iewel Pag. 102. Thus vve are taught that Christe is neither the head of his ovvne body the Churche nor the shepeherd of his ovvne flocke but only the Pope Harding Emong many other lies whiche you haue deuised against vs to sporte your selfe withal this is not onely a flat lie but also a skoffing and a sclaunderous lie We neuer taught so we neuer wrote so If ye proue it not let the shame be yours Iewel And yet Chrysostome saith Qui non vtitur Sacra Scriptura sed ascendit aliunde id est non concessa via hic non Pastor est Chrysost in Iohan. Homil. 58 sed fur VVhosoeuer vseth not the holy Scripture but coÌ„meth in an other vvaie that is not lavvful vvhiche is by false Gloses and corruptions he is not the Shephearde of the flocke he is the theefe Harding M. Iewel in reasoning suppresseth that wherein the proufe resteth so his argumentes must be weake and vaine The .16 Chapt. You laie forth many solemne Maiors diuers times as this out of S. Chrysostome and thereupon without either laying forth of the Minor or proufe thereof notwithstanding the whole matter on your behalfe to be proued standeth in the Minor you vse to inferre your seely Conclusions As here you reason after this wise Who so euer vseth not the holy Scripture but commeth in from an other where that is to saie by a waie not lawful for so S. Chrysostome speaketh and not as you haue falsified him he is not the shephearde of the flocke Ergo the Pope is not the shephearde of the flocke How proueth M. Iewel this argument with al the Logique he hath Had it not ben reason Chrysost in Math hom 55. in illa verba Iohan. 21. sequere me Hom. 87. August Contra Donatist Lib. 6.1 Q. 3. vocantur Canes he had first proued that the Pope vseth not the holy Scripture neither commeth in according to the Scripture but that he commeth in by some other vnlawful waie whiche ought to haue ben his Minor This bicause he sawe he was not hable to proue he thought it good policie to suppresse it with silence But let the question be asked of S. Chrysostome who vseth holy Scripture better he that saith that the charge of the whole worlde was committed to Peter and consequently to his successours as the same Chrysostom saith or he that denieth flatly that any suche thing maie be concluded out of the Scripture It is to true that you bring in of S. Augustine that the note or marke of a Bisshop many geue vnto Wolues and be Wolues them selues You had neuer the true Character of a Bishop being neuer lawfully consecrated by three lawful Bishoppes as the holy Canons require and yet you beare your selfe for a Bishop and vsurpe Bishoply office therefore you are one of the Wolues that S. Augustine spake of Leaue rauening and deceiuing of Goddes people and become penitent that you maie be saued with the meeke shepe of Christes flocke and not be damned euerlastingly with the rauening Wolues Iewel Pag. 102. 103. M. Harding saithe farther For asmuche as Christe is ascended into Heauen and is novv no more conuersant emongest vs in visible Fourme as he vvas before it behoued some one man to be put in commission for bearing the charge and taking care for the vvhole Churche Therefore he said vnto Peter Feede my flocke Confirme thy Brethren First vvhat auncient learned
Al are committed to thee the one whole flocke to one Neither art thou onely the Pastour of al the sheepe but also the onely Pastour of al the Pastours Demaundest thou of me howe I prooue it Forsooth out of the woorde of God Ioan. 21. For I praie you to whom I wil not saie of the Bisshoppes but also of the Apostles were al the sheepe so absolutely and indeterminately committed If thou loue me Peter feede my sheepe whiche sheepe The people of this or of that citie of this or of that countrie or kingdome My sheepe quod he Who now doth not euidently see that Christe did not appointe him certaine but assigned him al Where no distinction is made there nothing is excepted Thus you see how litle cause you had to saie why doth M. Harding auouche so great a matter of him selfe onely without farther authoritie Iewel Pag. 103. And if this so large Commission be to Feede and feede so many vvhy then doth the Pope feede so litle Harding The Pope feedeth and why Christe appointed him to be his Vicare The stubbornesse of Heretiques is a lette The .18 Chapt. that his diligent feeding can not take place in many Howe manie Articles of the Christian Doctrine had the peruersitie of Heretiques wrapped vp in a Confusion and brought in doubte that fewe menne knewe howe to vnfolde them The Popes diligent feeding hath so by General Councelles through his authoritie and care assembled vnfolded and disclosed all the false craftes and sleightes of Heretiques that nowe euery man that wil maie haue in a readinesse by perusing the Canons of the Councelles what Doctrine is true and holesome what is false and heretical Of late yeares he emploied his diligence in calling all The Pope feedeth but some refuse his good foode and feede of Poison the Protestantes vnto the Councel of Trent he gaue them safe Conductes to come and departe without danger of their personnes and there during the time of their abode to propone argue and dispute of the pointes in cōtrouersie with al freedome VVhy the Ministers of England vvēt not to the General Councel at Trent most liberal and free Safe cōductes being graunted them But ye of England knowing your owne weaknesse and that ye were not so wel hable to prooue your doctrine in learned Assemblies as ye were with boasting Chalenges and bolde talkes to prate it out of pulpites emong the ignorant at home least with shame ye should there haue ben put to silence and prooued vnlearned wylily absented your selues Notwithstanding libertie was geuen you to come and saie for your Gospel what ye could and as it appeareth in the Actes of the same to frame your safe Conducte if ye desliked the fourme set foorth in the Councel in as ample manner for your owne safegarde and benefite as ye could deuise Iewel Pag. 103. Againe vvhere learned M. Harding to reason thus Christe is ascended into heauen Ergo the Pope is head of the vvhole vvorlde Harding Nay where learned M. Iewel to fashon suche peeuish argumentes of his owne deuise and fathering them vpon his Aduersarie to scoffe at them as if they were of his Aduersaries making If this Argument be naught let him amend it that framed it If it be ridiculous the Reader may see what a ridiculous head he hath that brought it forth My reason dependeth in this sorte If it had pleased Christ to haue remained here visibly emong vs alwaies and to haue taken continual order him selfe for the external gouernment of the Churche we should not haue needed any other general head but Christe him selfe who had ben sufficient But for asmuch as Christes bodily and visible presence through his Ascension was for good purposes taken awaie from vs that we might haue better occasion to exercise faith and the holy Sacramentes it was needeful that in his steede he should leaue some one General Vicegerent In. 24. caput Luca. and Vicare of his loue as S. Ambrose termeth him that should haue ful authoritie to rule the whole Churche The partes of this reason are wel linked together both by diuinitie and also by logique As M. Iewel hath framed it it serueth for nothing but to make sporte emong Prentises I allege not Christes Ascension for the ful and sufficient cause of hauing one general Head as M. Iewel would beare menne in hande if any be so simple to beleeue him The cause vvhy Christe hath placed his Vicare here in his stede Ambros in 24. cap. Lucae but as the occasion why he should place an other in the absence of his Visible person in his steede The necessitie of the Churche that disorder and confusion be auoided and that vnitie be kepte considered together with the great loue that Christe hath to the Churche is the ful cause why Christe placed in his steede a general Vicegerent Vicarium amoris sui the vicare of his loue as S. Ambrose calleth him Iewel Ibidem But ye saie God speaketh not novv vnto vs mouth to mouth c. Harding What rule is like to be if the Scripture be made ruler and gouernour Your drifte is in this place The. 19. Chapt. to put the whole gouernment of the Church quite from the Pope whom Chrysostome as I haue tolde you before taketh to be the vniuersal Head bicause he is S. Peters Successour and to driue vs to deliuer the whole rule vnto the Scripture and that being remoued quite from any one certaine sense and leafte to mennes Phantasies to descant vpon it What vnitie and good Order wil folowe thereof they of Germanie ye of England the Lutherans the Zuinglians the Caluinistes the Osiandrines the Zuencfeldians the Anabaptistes the new Puritanes that now spring vp so freshly and other sectes wherewith the worlde swarmeth haue tolde vs already the whiche could neuer yet come to any good vnitie and common agreement Ye leaue vs also an other sorte of gouernours Apostles Ephes 4. Prophetes Euangelistes Pastours and Doctours of whom S. Paule speaketh If these be the Gouernours appointed by holy Scripture how falleth it out that ye contrary to Scripture haue geuen the supreme gouernment of your Church of England to laye Princes some being vnder their nources gouernance some being women The cas◠thus standing if the Ministers agree not in doctrine hovv shal vnitie be made and the people kepte vnpoisoned If these forenamed the Apostles c. be the right gouernours how happeth it that they can doo nothing concerning Order to be taken for the Churche but by authoritie deriued from a mere laie power If these that is to saie the successours of the Apostles Prophetes c. be the right gouernours what if any of these iarre and fal at square emong them selues as it hath oftentimes ben seene either within the compasse of one Realme or in diuers Realmes and doo poison the people with sundry Heresies to whom shal we resorte to haue them called home and reduced vnto order whom haue
of Popes at the first succeding one an other fol. 219. b. Ordination and Confirmation diuers fol. 227. b. Origen falsified by M. Iewel fol. 286. a. 333. b. Orders Ecclesiastical fol. 134. b. 135. a. P. Papistrie can not be shewed when it beganne fol. 106. b Patriarkes fol. 180. Peter Martyr in Strasbourg a Lutheran in England a Zuinglian fol. 34. b. Peter Martyr and dame Catherine his wife fol. 36. b. Peter Martyr at variance vvith Brentius fol. 117. b. Peters authoritie and prerogatiue fol. 174. a. 175. 176. Peter ouer the Christian Gentiles at Rome fol. 221. 〈…〉 Peter when he came to Rome fol. 221. b. Peter the feeder of al sortes in the flocke fol. 148. b. c. Peters humilitie fol. 153. Peter offended twise fol. 157. Peter foloweth the rest yet head of al by S. Augustine fol. 158. Peter receiued into indiuisible vnitie with Christ fol. 174. a. Peter ioyned with fol. Leo. 176. a. Pelagius heresie mainteined by the Caluinistes fol. 367. a. Perfection double one of Pilgrimes the other of heauen fol. 368. b Petitio principij muche vsed by M. Iewel fol. 89. a. Platina no flatterer of the Pope fol. 257. b. Pope the Heade of the Churche fol. 130. b. The Popes Supremacie proued fol. 146. 147. 148. 149. 159. b. 179. 186. a. b. The Pope Prince of Pastours fol. 177. b 178. a. The Pope leaft the Vicare of Christes loue towardes vs. fol. 148. a. The Popes confirming of Bishops fol. 223. b. 224. seq Popes charged with heresie and other enormites defended fol. 248. 249. 250. 251. 252. 253. 254. 255. 256. 257. 258. The Pope Peters Successour fol. 273. a. The Pope laufully called the Princâ—… of Pastours fol. 177. b. Possibilitie of keping Gods Commaundementes fol. 366. b. Priesthood double fol. 239. a. Priest aboue a Deacon fol. 164. b. Priestes of England are Votaries fol. 290. b. Priestes of Greece in what sence they are Votaries fol. 298. a. Priestes and religious menne whether they maie be dispensed to marrie fol. 300. b. Priestes only Iudges ouer Priestes fol. 377. a. Praying for the dead taught by S. Paule fol. 326. b. Protestantes dissent not onely one from an other but also from them selues fol. 34. a. Protestantes varie from the Primitiue Churche fol. 270. b. Protestantes be Apostates fol. 336. b. Protestantes are proued by an inuincible Argument to be no part of Christes Churche fol. 90. a. b. 92. Puritanes fol. 139. a. 332. a. R. RAymeris made king of Arragon of a Monke and married by dispensation fol. 301. a. Real presence cleerely witnessed fol. 79. a. proued 339. sequentib Rebellion against Princes mainteined by M. Iewel fol. 86. a. Religious menne married the first fouÌ„ders of this new Gospel fol. 36. b Reseruation of the Sacramente fol. 331. b. Righteousnes competent for this life fol. 368. a. Rounde capped Ministers fol. 86. b. Ruffianrie of M. Iewel detected fol. 120. b. Ruffinus belied by M. Iew. fol. 285. b. S. SAbellicus falsified by M. Iewel fol. 139. b. Sacramentes meanes to receiue grace fol. 330. a. Sacramentes seuen fol. 334 a. Sacrament of the Aulter called our maker and Lorde by S. Augustine fol. 346. a. Sacramentaries persecuted by the Lutheranes fol. 95. b. 96. a. Sacramentaries condemned by the Lutheranes fol. 104. b. Seruus seruuorum Dei the Popes stile fol. 187. b. Seuerus a blinde man by touche of a Martyrs garment recouered sight fol. 364. a. Shaxton Bishoppe no Protestant fol. 241. b. Shaxton and Capon Bishoppes of Sarisburie repented fol. 194. a. Shaxton B. not of M. Iewele side fol. 242. b. Sharpe vvordes founde in the Scriptures fol. 27. b. Sheepe of three sortes fol. 149. a. Siritius and Innocentius vvere not the first ordeiners of Clerkes coÌ„tinencie fol. 279. a. Sozomenus Gregorie Nazianzen and Eusebius belied by the Apologie fol. 309. a. Sophistrie of M. Ievvels shifting from the Scriptures to Goddes vvorde fol. 323. a. Spiridion made Bishop of a married laie man fol. 285. a Syluester 2. Pope fol. 249. a. Succession of Bishoppes treated of at large Lib. fol. 4. Succession of Bishoppes a certaine rule to knovve the Churche by fol. 198. b. 199. sequent Succession can not lacke the Truth fol. 199. 200. Succession lavvful can not be taken avvaie by man fol. 211. T. TErtulliaÌ„ of a married man made a Prieste fol. 285. a. Tertullians errour fol. 239. 240. Three vvaies of vvriting against an aduersarie fol. 42. b. Tradition fol. 270. a. Traditions belonging to SacrameÌ„ts maie not be changed Ceremonies maie fol. 326. a. Traditores what they were in the primitiue Churche fol. 91. a. Transubstantiation fol. 110. b. treated of 346. b. This is my Bodie meant properly fol. 339. a. Turkes inuasion brideled fol. 266. a. V. VAriance of opinion betwen two Ministers of Valencenes in the time of the Siege fol. 84. b. Victor the Pope his death fol. 58. a Virgilius Pope his CoÌ„stancie fol. 200. a Vnitie can not be without a supreme head fol. 140. b. 141. a. 152. 153. a. Vniuersal Bishop truly attributed to the Pope fol. 185. b. 186. 187. 188. sequent Votaries maie not conueniently marrie by M. Iewel fol. 289. a. Vow breakers in what danger they stande fol. 278. a. Vow of Chastitie annexed to holy Orders fol. 291. a. Vow of Chastitie made in facte though no vvordes be spoken fol. 292. b. Vovve made in vvhat case marriage holdeth or holdeth not by the determination of the Churche fol. 294. b Vrspergensis set out by Melanchthon onely fol. 57. b. VV VVAldenses heresies fol. 102. b. VVedlockes il thing is inordinate luste fol. 283. b. VVickleff his heresies fol. 82. b. 63. a. VViues that couerted their vnfaithful husbandes fol. 61. b. 350. a. VVordes of God not written fol. 270. a. VVorkes hovv meritorious of infinite revvarde fol. 371. b. Faultes escaped in the printing Faulte leafe line Correction my 27. a. 27. may sor 38. a. 12. sory Golfridus 83. b. 25. Galfridus lustly 135. b. 23. lusty famofum 170. b. 9. fumosum to 179. b. 28. lut it out least 180. b. 28. leaft S. of 198. a. 19. of S. In the margent 202. a.  a note superfluous Liber hic D.M.N. Thomae Hardingi lectus approbatus est à viris Anglici idiomatis Theologiae peritissimis vt sine periculo imprimi publicari possit Quanquam alioqui ipse D. Hardingus mihi tà m probè notus est vt de eius cruditione fide prudentia nihil sit dubitandum Cunerus Petri Pastor S. Petri Louanij 21. Maij. An. 1568.
the reprehension of my vehement speache doo fal into the selfe same Vehemencie Whose wordes are these M. Iewel M. Ievv blameth my vehemencie of speache him selfe being also no lesse vehement Pag. 94. Beholde your owne wordes so many so vaine so bitter so firie so furious al together in one place Are not these your owne wordes Are not these as vehemeÌ„t as you could deuise Wil you finde faulte with me for that you vse your selfe If vehement speache be to be vsed when the matter requireth why blame you me If not why doo you so often vse it Whether you and Luther doo vse it iustly for the zeale of Goddes glorie aske that of them that wrote the Confession of the Churche of Zurich Your owne frendes the Ministers of that congregation doo set forth Luther for his outragious and filthy railing against them in his colours and speake of him as of a very vile felow and paie him home againe with as good as he brought Reade the booke and ye shal finde it to be true Howbeit I could sende you to many other bookes of your brethren fraught with muche more vile stuffe of railing then that litle booke conteineth with al whiche you are better acquainted then I am The Confutation of the Apologie The seconde parte the 2. Chapter Confut fo 44. b Againe the name of Head is attributed to Christe aâ— other waie bicause Christe is head of the Churche by his owne power and authoritie Menne be called heades in as muche as they be in steede of Christ and vnder Christ after whiche meaning S. Paule saith to the Corinthians for if I forgaue any thing to whom I forgaue it 2. Cor. 2. for your sakes forgaue I it in persona Christi in the person of Christe And in an other place 2. Cor. 5. We are Ambassadours in the steede of Christe euen as though God did exhorte you through vs. To conclude in few 〈◊〉 vvhat sense Christe is named the Head of the Churche and in vvhat sense the Pope is so named according to inwarde influence of grace into euery faithful member Christe onely is the head of the Churche according to outward gouerning the Pope vnder Christ and in steede of Christ is head of the same Iewel Pag. 94. To the matter ye saie that touching the influence of grace Christe onely is the head of the Churche but touching direction and gouernemeÌ„t the Pope only as the head Al this is but your ovvne tale M. Harding ye speake it onely of your selfe other authoritie of Scripture or Doctour you bringe vs none Harding Dogge eloquence proued no vnwoonted terme and how the Pope is Head of the Churche To the mater ye saie And truly wel said of you The .7 Chapt For hitherto you haue not directed your talke to the mater but to the person of your Aduersarie with whom you shew your selfe greuously offended for calling the Currish and snarling vtterance of Luther Dogge eloquence And whereas you would faine draw the same to the preiudice of my modestie I trust you that are so great a Rhetorician and so wel seene in poetes Fables wil iudge so muche the better of me for so muche as Quintilian that modeste and graue Oratour and Ouide also no Poete Satyrical thought suche phrase of speache not vnmeete for the countenance of modestie and humanitie that they bare in the worlde For if you remember Canina Eloquentia QuintiliaÌ„ lib. 12. c. 9 Ouid. in Ibin is Quintilians worde calle it dogge eloquence dogged eloqueÌ„ce or dogges eloquence or how soeuer otherwise it please you to terme it And Ouid saith Latrâ—◠〈◊〉 in toro verba canina foro If for the vse of this auncient terme I seeme to passe the boundes of modestie specially attributing it vnto Luther whose heretical and Deuilish vtterance is coÌ„monly in deede farre worse then the barking of any Dogge or the hissing of any Serpent what wil you saie of the Scolding of your hote brother M. Calfhil But now that after muche idle and impertinent talke you are come to the mater what saie you that is worth the hearing M. Iewels foule falsifying of my vvordes Thus you saie Ye saie that touching the influence of Grace Christe onely is the Head of the Churche I graunt I say so in deede Go ye forth and make no lye but touching direction and gouernement the Pope only is the Head Yea sir Where saie I so You should haue caused your printer to haue falsified that senteÌ„ce of mine that at your owne pleasure the simplest of your owne poore Fauourers who take al for the Gospel that you saie or write might not in your owne booke espie your shamelesse lying For euen there notwithstanding your coÌ„mon falsifyinges other where 's and also there they maie finde my saying otherwise reported It is an euident argument that myne owne wordes were to true for you to confute sith that you thought it necessarie least you should seme ouercome to alter and change them for other wordes of your own which being false to the vnlearned reader I might seeme to speake fondly and besides al truth For how is it likely I should saie that touching Direction and gouernement the Pope only is the Head Your fetche was to bring your vnlearned fauourers by whom you are magnified to beleeue that from the Direction and gouernement of the Church I excluded Christe and the holy Ghoste the spirite of truth Which God forbid I should doo Now the true wordes of my Confutation in this place are these Defence Pag. 92. whiche the Reader maie see also in the booke of your Defence although very much mangled and falsified of set purpose to thintent the force of truth by me opened should not be seene as by view of my booke it maie clearely appeare Where thus I saie For Head and Spouse alone he is of his kingdom in one respecte not alone in an other respect * Confut. fol. 44. a. left out by M. Ie. For a cleare declaration whereof it is to be vnderstanded that being of a Head maie be considered after two waies The being of a Head considered tvvo vvaies either according to the inward influence so as the vertue and power of mouing and of sense is deriued from the head vnto the other members or according to outward gouernment right so as a man is directed in his outward actes according to the sight and other senses AccordiÌ„g to it ward influence of grace Christe onely is Head of the Churche In respect of outvvard gouernement the name of Head is attributed to others beside Christe which haue their roote in the head Now the inwarde influence of grace is not of any other but of Christe only Bicause Christes manhood onely hath power to iustifie for that the same only is ioyned personally to the Godhead * According to this inward influence of Grace Christ properly and only is Head of his mystical body the Church But as touching
the outward gouernment the being of a Head is common to Christe with others For in this respecte certaine others maie be called Headdes of the Church as in Amos the prophete the great states be called the Heades of the people So the Scripture speaketh of King Saul When thou were a litle one in thine owne eyes thou wast made Head emong the tribes of Israel So Dauid saith of him selfe he hath made me Head of Nations Amos. 6. 1. Reg. 15. Psal 17. Headship in respect of gouernement diuers in Christ and in menne * Left out by M. Ievvel In this sense the name of Head is attributed to princes and gouernours And yet not altogether so as to Christ First forasmuche as Christe is Head of al those that perteine to the Churche according to euery place euery time and euery state But menne are called Heades in regard of certaine special places as Bishoppes be called heades of their Churches Or in respect of a determinat time as the Pope is Head of the whole Church during the time of that calling And according to a determinate state euen so as menne be in the state of this mortal life for further stretcheth not this humanie Headship Againe the name of Head is attributed to Christe an other waie bicause Christe is Head of the Churche by his owne power and authoritie * Menne be called Headdes in asmuch as they be in steed of Christe and vnder Christe after whiche meaning S. Paule saith to the Corinthians 2. Cor. 2. For if I forgaue any thing to whom I forgaue it for your sakes forgaue I it in persona Christi in the person of Christe and in an other place we are Ambassadours in the steede of Christe 2. Cor. 5. euen as though God did exhorte you through vs. To conclude in fewe according to inward influence of grace into euery faithful member Christe onely is Head of the Churche according to outward gouerning the Pope vnder Christe and in steede of Christe is Head of the same These be my wordes there M. Iewel To whiche bicause you had nothing to saie you answer by your accustomed arte of mangling hewing awaie what liked you not by falsifying them and by putting in your owne selfe wordes in place of myne that teache the truthe And at length you fal to skoffing at my Logique making fonde and peeuish Argumentes of your owne forging bearing the simple reader in hande they are mine whiche God knoweth I neuer made nor no wise man elles For they are suche as of al that peruse your writinges you maie be knowen by them as a Begger is by his patched cloke or rather as a Vise is knowen by his Babul The greatest thing you saie is that al is myne owne tale that I tel and that I bring in no Scripture nor Doctour To this I answere Were it true that you saie as my Booke it selfe prooueth it false yet in this case my Yea hytherto is as good as your Nay and better too bicause it standeth with the vniforme Doctrine of the Churche Be it I allege no Authoritie of Scripture or Doctour to prooue the Pope Head bicause I am not yet comme to the place where I minde to prooue it Yet my case standeth as good as youres that bring neither Scripture nor Doctour to the contrarie If it had pleased you ye might haue founde bothe Doctours and Scriptures more The Rock of the Churche then you would gladly heare of in M. D. Sanders booke entitled the Rocke of the Church written for that behalfe and in M. Sapletons Returne written against your so many grosse Vntruthes and errours The Returne of Vntruths You crake muche of your great skil in Logique in comparison of other mennes ignorance searche out I praie you emong your rules of Logique whether Distinctio multiplicis in quaestione positi the Distinction of a worde that hath diuers significations placed in a controuersie ought not to goe before the disputation of the controuersie If it ought then haue I done rightly and orderly in that I made a Distinction of the terme Head before I entred to proue the Pope to be Head and you ignorantly and disorderly in calling vppon me to doo two thinges together against al good order of nature reason and learning or to doo the later before I had ended the former Testimonies auouching the Pope to be head of the Churche Peter the chiefe mēber of the Churche Gregor li. 4. epis 38. Now bicause you be so hasty to haue some Doctour to proue that the Pope is Head somewhat to satisfie your hasty humour the Authoritie of S. Gregorie afterwarde alleged by your selfe maie suffice any wise man who calleth S. Peter the chiefe member of the Church which the Pope succeding in that right of Peter is al one with that we saie the Pope is Head in gouernment vnder Christe What difference I praie you can your wisedome put betwixte the chiefe member and a Head vnder an other or in the steede of an other Chrysost in Matth. homil 55. It is your happe alwaie to allege Doctours to your owne Confusion S. Chrysostome also witnesseth that Peter was such a Head saying of him Ecclesia Pastor Caput Piscator homo The fisherman by whom he meaneth Peter is the shepehearde and head of the Churche Againe he saith in an other place Quod si quis percontaretur Chrysost in Ioan. Hom. 87. quo modo Iacobus Sedem Hierosolymis acceperit responderem hunc totius orbis magistrum praeposuisse In case any man would demaunde of me this question how Iames came to haue the See at Ierusalem I would answere him that this Peter the Maister of the whole worlde made him Bishop there Lo Peter Maister of the vvhole vvorlde he calleth Peter the Maister of the whole worlde by whiche worde what elles signifieth he but that he was the Head touching spiritual gouernment of the whole worlde He saith furthermore and that most plainely in an other place Ieremiam Genti vni pater Chrysost Hom. 55. in Matth. hunc autem vniuerso terrarum orbi praeposuit God the Father made Ieremie the Head and Gouernour ouer one nation onely that was the nation of the Iewes but as for this man Peter made hed of the vvhole vvorlde by Christ to wit Peter Christe made him Head and Gouernour ouer the whole worlde Are you contented now Verely I haue folowed your minde willingly And if ye require mo the like testimonies of me I remitte you to the Answer Ansvver I made vnto your Chalenge Art 4. fol. 9. b. c. where you shal finde that maie satisfie any learned man touching this pointe Neither are you hable to auoide the plaine force of those testimonies for al the great a doo you haue made in your huge Replie Iewel Pag. 94. Ye saie S. Paule saith If I forgaue any thing for your sakes 2. Cor. 2. I forgaue it in the personne
Father euer thus scanned the vvordes of the popes commission Or vvhy doth M. Harding auouche so great a matter of him selfe onely vvithout farther Authoritite c. Harding Feede my Sheepe are wordes of Peters commission to gouerne the Churche and the same is proued by the Fathers You tel my tale in suche wise The .17 Chapt. as you maie best make the matter seeme weake and sclender First I thinke good here to set before the reader who is now made iudge of this controuersie myne owne wordes as I vttered them my selfe Then I shal the better frame my Answer to that you obiecte Thus I saie Where these Defenders â—onfâ—t fol. 46. a. as others the Aduersaries of this vnitie saie that Christe is this one shepheard this one Head who is so Christe is the principal Head and of him selfe the Pope is the Ministerial Head and vnder Christ aÌ„d for Christ Math. 28. 1. Pet. 2. A man is necessarie to doo Christes steede of outward gouernment in in the Churche The necessitie and institution of the Head of the Churche Genes 32. Num. 12. we denie not Shepeheard of his flockâ— Head of his body Bridegrome of his spouse Prince of hiâ— kingdome as it is before declared yet saie they therein nothing to the disproufe of the catholique doctrine touching vnitie of the Head which is in steed and ministerie of Christ For whereas the Father hath geuen to Christ al power in heaueÌ„ and earth so as he only is the King Head ruler Iudge of al the Pastour and Bishop of our soules and therefore they whiche we acknowledge to be Kinges Headdes Rulers iudges Pastours and Bishoppes in earth be his Vicares Lieuetenantes Vicegerentes and Ministers al this power by what name so euer it be called being suche as is exercised and administred by his worde neede it is that for asmuche as Christe now dwelleth not with vs in visible presence his Churche haue one man to doo his steede of outwarde ruling in earth by his worde to administer al that is behooful and to performe the duetie of the head in respecte of the bodie Now that Christe is not conuersant with vs visibly as he was with his Disciples before his passion and preacheth no more vnto vs with his owne mouth sensibly to atteine the vnderstanding of his wil we maie not looke to haue God appeare vnto vs as he did vnto the Fathers of the olde Testament to speake to vs as he did to Moyses face to face mouth to mouth as the Scripture saith to sende vs his Angel as he did to the Virgine Marie to instruct vs with visions from Heauen Luc. 1. Actâ— 10. 2. Cor. 12. as he instructed Peter to take vs vp into the thirde heauen as he tooke Paule there to heare the secretes of his wil but it behoueth vs to be content for the working of that whiche remaineth to be done touching our Saluation with suche order as hath pleased him For it is manifest that Christe perfiteth al the Sacramentes of the Churche He it is that baptizeth he it is that forgeueth sinnes he is the true priest that hath offered him selfe on the Crosse and by whose power his body is daily consecrated and offered on the Aulter Yet bicause he would not remaine in visible presence with al beleeuers he chose menne to be his Ministers by whom the forsaid thinges should be done and ministred to them By like reason forasmuch as he would take froÌ„ the Churche his corporal and visible presence it behoued some one man to be put in CommissioÌ„ for bearing the charge and taking care of the Churche in lieu and steede of him selfe For this purpose before his AscensioÌ„ he said to Peter whose loue he had tried and found to be most feruent aboue al others feede my shepe and before his Passion Thou being againe coÌ„uerted strengthen thy brethren Iohan. 2â— Luc. 22. Math. 16. And to him specially he said by promise To thee wil I geue the keies of the kingdome of heauen thereby to shewe that the power of the keies should be deriued to others by him for the better keping of the vnitie of the Churche Now let it be iudged with what substantial learning you haue coÌ„futed this doctrine If it had not ben sounde and such as clearely openeth what we meane The former vvordes of my Confutation lefte out of M. Ievvelleâ— Defence when we cal the Pope the chiefe Pastour and supreme Gouernour of Christes Flocke doubtelesse you would not haue leafte it out of your booke For you making a shewe as though you had printed my whole booke againe and so confuted it take onely that pleaseth you and leaue out what seemeth to hard for you to answere mangling disordering and confounding my whole treatie to thinâ—â—â—â— it may beare the lesse face of learning and of good proufâ— of the thinges I intreate of which is a foule practise nâ—uer vsed by any lerned man hitherto And yet you would men to beleeue you deale truly and plainely in laying foorth my Confutation Yet here hauing nothing to saie elles least you should seeme to geue ouer you demaund of me what auncient Father euer thus skanned the woordes of the Popes Commission or why I haue auouched so great a matter of my selfe without farther authoritie Thus when I bring Fathers you cal for Scripture when I allege Scripture M. Iewels vvaie to continue vvrangling Iohan. 21 you aske what auncient Father euer vnderstode it so or why I dare so handle the Scripture so ye wil be sure not to lacke mater of wrangling what so euer I saie Yet thus I answer It is no hard peece of worke to proue by sufficient authoritie that these wordes Pasce oues meas feede my sheepe spoken to Peter and in him to his successours In Math. Homil. 55 in Iohan Homil 87. Grego lib. 4. epi. 32. Pascere gaue Peter and his successours Authoritie gâ—neral to gouerne the whole Churche S. Chysostome treating vpon these wordes saith as it is before alleged that the charge to rule the whole worlde was geuen to Peter and coÌ„sequently to his successours S. Gregorie saith the same as is before rehersed Pascere is not a word that signifieth to feede only as you know but also to rule and gouerne and therefore Homere calleth King Agamemnon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Pastor that is to say the ruler of the people And that it may appeare that I auouche not this matter and applie the place of S. Iohns Gospel to it of my selfe onely without farder Authoritie as you say it may please you to heare S. Ambrose teaching the same and in manner with the same woordes that I vsed writing vpon the .24 Chapter of S. Luke thus he saieth Ambro in cap. 24. Lucae Iohan. 21. Dominus interrogabat non vt disceret sed vt doceret quem eleuandus in coelum amoris sui nobis velut Vicarium relinquebat Sic enim habes Simon Ioannis diligis
Gods minister to see iustice ministred and the Violences and iniuries of his Lieutenantes and Officers pounished and these ciuil causes of Felonie Murder and Rape to be truely and thoroughly examined ad vindictam malorum to the reuenge of malefactours wrote his letters to al them that had ben at the foresaid conuenticle at Tyrus and required them to appeare before him as before the syncere minister of God and to render accompte of their dealing against Athanasius in those Ciuil cases Of this mater See the Returne Art 4. Item the Countreblast lib. 2 Cap. 2. 3 For he might wel doo it and nothing further M. Iewel in proufe of his desperate cause that a Bishoppe was conuented in maters of Faith and ecclesiastical causes before the Ciuil Magistrate as his lawful and ordinarie Iudge Iewel Pag. 638. Iustinian the Emperour in the lavve that he maketh touching the publique praiers of the Churche saith thus we commaunde al Bishoppes and Priestes to minister the holy oblation Authentica constit 123. and the prayer at the holy Baptisme not vnder silence but with suche voice as maie be heard of the faithful people to thintente the hartes of the hearers maie be stirred to more Deuotion c. Aftervvarde he addeth further And let the holy Priestes vnderstand that if they neglecte any of these thinges they shal make answere therefore at the dreadful iudgement of the great God and our Sauiour Iesus Christe And yet neuerthelesse we our selues vnderstanding the same wil not passe it ouer nor leaue it vnpounished Hereby vve see that Godly princes maie summone Bishoppes to appeare before them euen in causes Ecclesiastical to receiue such pounischement as they haue deserued Harding For answere to this or any thinge that you can bring out of Iustinian for breuities sake I referre you to Iustinian him selfe By whose constitutions and Godly lawes it maie easily appeare how farre he was from claiming superioritie ouer Bishoppes or gouernment as supreme iudge in causes Ecclesiastical as he who decreed according to the definitions of the 4. general Councelles that in Spiritual causes the Pope of the elder Rome should be taken for the chiefe of al Priestes and aduertised Pope Iohn that there should be nothing moued perteining to the state of the Churche but that he would signifie it to his Holinesse being Heade of al Churches and declared that in all his Lawes and dooinges for matters Ecclesiastical he gaue place to the holy Canons made by the Fathers and willed that when any Ecclesiastical matter were moued his Laie officers should not intermelde but suffer the Bishoppes to ende it according to the Canons In this very Constitution whiche you haue alleged with these special wordes he committeth the Iudgement and pounishment of al sortes of offences committed by them of the Clergie to such as the Canons haue put in authoritie Authentica constit 123. Thus he decreeth Quotiescunque aliquis vel Sacerdotum vel Clericorum vel Praesulum vel Monachorum vel de fide vel de turpi vita vel quòd contra sacros aliquid Canones peregerit accusatus fuerit si quidem is qui accusatus Episcopus fuerit huius Metropolitanus ea quae proferentur examinato Si verò Metropolitanus beatissimus Archiepiscopus sub quo censetur si Presbyter aut Diaconus aut alius Clericus aut Praesul Monasterij aut Monachus Religiosissimus Episcopus sub quo hi censentur delata in accusationem examinato veritate cōprobata vnusquisque pro modo delicti Canonicis censuris subijcitor iudicio eius qui causae examinationem accommodat As often as any either of the Priestes or of the Clerkes or of the Prelates or of the Monkes is accused either of faith or of filthy life or that he hath done ought against the holy Canons in case he that is accused be a Bishop let his Metropolitane examine the thinges that shal be laid to his charge if he be a Metropolitan let the Archebishop vnder whom he is haue the examination If he be a Priest or a Deacon or some other Clerke or a Prelate of a Monasterie or some Monke let the Bishop vnder whose iurisdiction they are examine the thinges that be laid in accusation And when the truth is tried out let euery one abide the Censures of the Canons for the rate of the faulte by the iudgement of him that sitteth vpon the examination of the matter Againe how farre he was from the minde and wil that Bishops or any other whatsouer Ecclesiastical personnes should be summoned to appeare before him or his temporal officers in iudgement for any Ecclesiastical cause this expresse Decree which there also ye might haue founde sufficiently witnesseth Si Ecclesiasticum negotium sit nullam Communionem habento Ciuiles Magistratus cum ea disceptatione sed Religiosissimi Episcopi secundùm sacros Canones negotio finem imponunto If the matter be Ecclesiastical that is to be iudged let the Ciuile Magistrates haue nothing to doo with it But let the most Religious Bishoppes make an ende of it according to the holy Canons By these as also by the purporte of sundrie other Iustinians constitutions ordinances and decrees al menne maie see that he neither chalenged any supreme dominion ouer Bishops and Priestes in Ecclesiastical causes nor enacted this nor any other lawe as chiefe Gouernour of the Churche but followed the holy Councels and willed the Canons to take place and confirmed that which was decreed by them For special answer then to this special obiection made out of the 123 constitution I saie that Iustinian threatned to pounishe them with the seueritie of temporal lawes who would not be conteined in their duetie by Ecclesiastical discipline and order of the Canons that feare might force where loue and conscience could not binde Which policie we doo not mislike seing Duo vincula fortius ligant two bondes binde faster then one To be shorte Iustinian leaueth the correction of Clerkes offending in any thing against the Canons to the cēsures of the Canons And if any refuse to abide the order appointed by the Canons and vtterly shake of the yoke of the Canons then that is to say in the case of extreme stubbornesse and contempte of the Canons like a Godly prince he threateneth reuenge and pounishment In which case the Church doth now cal and alwaies hath called for the aide of the Seculare Arme against those that vtterly refuse to be corrected by the censures of the Church and seeme incorrigible So neither by the lawes of Iustinian neither by the example of Brunichildis neither by the Gloses that you so solemnely allege it can not be seene that Godly Princes might euer summone Bishops to appeare before them to receiue any pounishment at their handes as their superiours and supreme gouernours in ecclesiastical causes Peraduenture if we put on eyes of better sighte we maie see it hereafter if wee diligently attende what you saie Foorth therefore M. Iewel Iewel Pag. 638.
Defenders require vs to follow the example of S. Irenaeus in that he as they saie appealed oftentimes to the oldest Churches whiche had benne nearest to Christes time and whiche it was hard to beleeue that they had erred thus I saie Confut. â—â—4 a. Ye would seeme to be faine that we folowed the aduise of S. Irenaeus We are content with al our hartes And with Irenaeus we appeale to that Tradition Irenaeus lib 3. ca. 8. which is from the Apostles which as he saith is kepte in the Churches by Priestes that succeded them With Irenaeus leauing other Churches whose succession of Bishopes it were a long worke to reherse we require to haue recourse for trial of our Faith to the tradition of doctrine of the Romaine Churche which he termeth greatest oldest Idem lib. 3. cap. 3. best knowen to al founded and set vp by the twoo most glorious Apostles Peter and Paule We appeale to the Faith of that Churche taught abrode in the worlde and by successions of Bishoppes brought downe vnto vs. For to this Churche saith Irenaeus must al the Church of Christe repaire where so euer it be for that it is the chiefe of al and for that the tradition of the true doctrine whiche the Apostles lefte behind them is there faithfully kepte Wherfore if ye would after the counsel of Irenaeus resorte to Rome for decision of the controuersies that be betwixte you and vs and would them to be tried by that sense of doctrine whiche hath continued by Successions of Bishoppes euen from Peter to Pius the fourth now Pope and would stand to the auctoritie of that See Apostolike al strife were ended we should be at accorde But we haue litle hope that ye wil folowe this godly counsel of S. Irenaeus that blessed Martyr whose bodie your brethren the Huguenotes of Fraunce villanously burned at Lions Anno Domini 1562. after it had rested there thirteen hundred yeres and more In al these wordes as thou seest reader I say not as M. Iewel beareth her Maiestie in hande I doo that we must learne to know the wil of God only at the Popes hande But I declare whether we may most safely resorte for decision of the controuersies that be betwixte vs and the Protestantes Whereunto M. Iewel hath not yet answered ne neuer shal be hable to answere though in the Defence he haue shuffled together a great heape of allegations nothing perteining to the present purpose as his custome is to doo and a great parte of my confutation there he hath cut of M. Iewel cutteth and mangleth the Confutation in infinite places leauing out wordes of greatest vveight and therby hath fowly mangled the same as for his aduantage he hath done in infinite places leauing out the matters whereunto he had not what reasonably to answere See the place Reader Defence pag. 701. and thou shalt finde my worde true Item there Iewel That in the Popes onely holinesse standeth the vnitie and safetie of the Churche Confut. 204. b. Harding If I had so said in a right sense it might wel be allowed Howbeit thus I said Confut. 204. b. As Christe gaue vnto S. Peter and his Successours for the benefite of his Churche a supreme auctoritie and power so for the same Churches sake for whose loue he deliuered him selfe to death by petition made to his Father he obteined for him and his Successours Ioan. 14. Luc. 22. the Priuiledge of this Supreme and most excellent Grace that their Faith should neuer faile In consideration of whiche singular priuiledge obteined by Christe and graunted to the See Apostolike and to none other S. Gregorie rebuketh Iohn the Bishop of Constantinople so much as one that presumptuously vsurped that new name of vniuersal Bishop against the Statutes of the Gospel and against the decrees of the Canons To coÌ„clude if either S. Gregorie or any other maÌ„ should saie that the Churche dependeth vpon one man he might seeme to saie truthe meaning rightly and that not alone nor without good authoritie For such a saying we finde vttered by S. Hierome Hieron Contra Luciferian The saftie of the Churche saith he dependeth vpon the dignitie of the highest priest who if he haue not auctoritie peerlesse and aboue al other there wil be so many schismes in the Churche as there be priestes Which peerlesse auctoritie aboue al other as S. Hierome in that place doth attribute vnto the Bishop of euery Dioces directly so consequently to Peters successour to whom it was said Feed my shepe Iohan. 21. For by what reason in ech Dioces it behoueth one priest to be highest ouer other Priestes by the same and in like proportioÌ„ no lesse it behoueth that in the whole Church one Bishop be highest ouer other Bishoppes I meane for auoiding of schismes This reason is not ne can not of M. Iewel be auoided Of other thinges impertinent he bringeth vs great stoare out of other men in the Defence Defence pag. 452. but to this very reason wherein standeth the pointe touching the maintenance and preseruation of vnitie he saith nothing Item there Iewel That vvho so euer is diuided from the Pope must be iudged an Heretique and that vvithout the obedience of him there is no hope of Saluation Confut. 306. b. Harding Who so euer is diuided not onely from the Pope but also from any other Catholique Bishoppe in faith ought to be iudged an Heretique As touching obedience Iohan. 21. whereas by Christe he is commaunded to Feede his Lambes and his sheepe and thereby hath commission to gouerne them how can he be saued from the rauening woolues who through disobedience refuseth to come into that Folde and to be fedde and guided of that high Pastor I confesse that in certaine cases besides faith a man may disobey the Pope and yet not be remoued from all hope of saluation My wordes for whiche you make so muche a doo are these vttered vpon occasion of your Apologie Confut. fol. 306. b. Ye put vs in minde to consider how that your selues are those priuate hil Aulters and darke groues For ye be they that stoppe the people from the commoÌ„ Temple of Christendom the Catholique Church out of which is no saluation the head whereof sitteth in Peters Chaire at Rome Item there Iewel And yet as though it vvere not sufficient for him so vainely to sooth a man in open errours he telleth vs also sadly and in good earnest that the same Bishop is not onely a Bishop but also a kinge Confut. fol. 80. a. 305. b. Harding Neither haue I in any place soothed the Pope in open Errours but haue graunted that certaine Popes had their Errours either before they were called to that roume or also afterwarde holding them priuately and as priuate Doctours That the Pope erreth how is it denied But that by any publique decree geuen out to be holden and obserued of the Churche they euer mainteined or gaue assent or
wordes be simply beleeued let my Confutation of the Apologie be vewed and there I shal be founde touching these odious pointes of these princes Variance with the Popes of their time to haue vttered these woordes farre otherwise then he here reporteth Confut. fol. 339. b. Concerning the case between these three Kinges of England and the Bishoppes of Rome for the tyme being I say litle If they did wel and the Bishoppes euil they haue their rewarde the other their punishment If otherwise or how so euer ech one at Gods iudgement shal haue his deserued measure But be it graunted al were true ye say though we know the more parte to be false Henrie the secōd S. Thomas Arch bishop of Canturbury King Iohn What though king Henrie the Second were euil entreated of Pope Alexander about the murthering of S. Thomas the Archebishop of Canturburie and King Iohn likewise of that zelous and learned Pope Innocentius the thirde about the stirre he made against the Church for cause of Steuen Lankton Archebishop of Canturburie Henrie the .8 This is no iust cause to forsake the Churche King Henrie the eigth likewise of the Popes in our time about matters yet fresh bleeding Is this a good cause why ye who haue nothing to doo with Princes matters now ended and buried should forsake the Churche change your Faith change the whole order of Religion and condemne al before your time for a thousand yeres Bicause the Bishoppes of Rome haue done euil wil ye geue ouer the Faith of the Churche of Rome Bicause the Popes did wronge to Princes wil ye doo wrong to your selues Bicause the Popes were at Variance with these three Kinges wil ye be at Variance with God Bicause they excommunicated them wil ye excommunicate your selues I haue heard of a foole that being striken of one standing a looffe of would eftsones strike an other that stood next him But I neuer heard of any so foolish that seeing an other striken would therefore kill him selfe Verely your Apostasie and departing from the Catholique Churche is to weightie a matter to be defended with so light a reason Thou maist see good Reader that here I take not vpon me in Defence of those Popes to answere vnto these matters nor shortely as M. Iewel saith nor at length nor in light manner nor in sad manner which matters he calleth Tyrannical iniuries and iuste causes of griefe The more cleerely to shewe how litle good matter our new Vsurping Clergie haue to bring for the excuse and Defence of the Alteration they haue made in Religion and of their Schisme and departing from the Catholike Churche bicause in their Apologie they alleged these Practises of the Popes only I demaunde their tale for their better aduantage being graunted to be true whiche yet I saied expressely was knowen to be false for the more parte what reliefe their cause could haue thereby and how the euil doinges of the Bishoppes of Rome if it were graunted they did euil therein could be drawen to Defence of their owne worse doing To whiche demaunde M. Iewel by his silence in his pretensed Defence maketh al the worlde witnesse Defence Pag. 733. how vnhable he is to answere Howbeit in that place he vseth his common sleight by cutting awaie the chiefe parte of my tale wherein lyeth the weighte and so dischargeth him selfe of the paines of answering Any booke may so sone be answered Touching these Popes and these Kinges when M. Iewel or any of his felow Ministers shal truely and with sufficient reason proue vnto vs that Henrie the Second did wel when he gaue occasion that the blessed Martyr S. Thomas Archebishop of Canturburie was murdered that al King Iohns attemptes against the Churche for cause of Steuen Lankton Archebishop and primate of the same prouince were iuste and right and that King Henrie the eight did wel and according either to the holy Scriptures or doctrine of the auncient and learned Fathers when he tooke vpon him to be Supreme Head in earth of the Churche of England immediatly vnder Christe whiche no temporal prince euer tooke vpon him before and likewise when for maintenance of the same title he hanged headded and quartered so many holy and learned men of al degrees now blessed Sainctes and crowned Martyrs in heauen when I say either he or they or any of them shal proue this much vnto vs in such sorte as I said before then wil we say with them ô worthy Kinges ô naughty Popes yea then wil we saie too ô the crowe is white Neuerthelesse I doo not here iustifie al the deedes of the Popes But what so euer they did that is no sufficient cause why these menne should forsake their Faith and departe from the felowship of the Churche Item there Iewel But concerning the Maiestie and right of Kinges and Emperours M. Harding telleth vs they haue their first authoritie by the positiue Lavve of Nations and can haue no more povver then the people hath of vvhom they take their temporal iurisdiction Confutat Fol. 318. b. Harding If I haue herein spoken euil geue witnesse against me of euil Ye would faine finde a faulte I perceiue if ye wiste wherein You seeme not wel to vnderstand what you saie nor whereof you affirme But you allege the Scriptures Per me Reges regnant Prouer. 8. By me Kinges doo reigne And there is no power but from God very learnedly forsooth As though the auctoritie Rom. 13. that Princes haue by the positiue lawe of Nations and the power whiche they haue of the people were not of God as who vseth that meane to conueie that power vnto them Item there Iewel M. Harding euen in the selfe same booke vnder certaine general threates chargeth your Maiestie vvith disordered presumption by the example of Ozias the vvicked King vpon vvhom as he vntruly saith God sent his vengeance for the like Confut. fol. 298. a. Harding You would faine the Queenes Maiestie should conceiue hatred against me I perceiue M. Iewel and thereto you applie al your skil and cunning But Sir who deserueth more thankes at God and the Princes for the time being he that telleth them the Truthe and in time geueth warning to beware of Goddes Vengeance before it be to late or he that for his owne wordly interest holdeth his peace and leadeth them into a wrong way from the whiche if they returne not backe they are sure at length to feele either the temporal smarte of Goddes Vengeance in this life or the euerlasting smarte in the life to come Ye flatter ye flatter your Princes M. Iewel ye deceiue them ye blinde them ye worke al meanes possible that the Truthe be not brought to their vnderstanding least were it knowen and of them perceiued ye should be turned out of your welthy roumes and driuen againe to Geneua I had almost said Gehenna from whence ye came Certainely ye shutte vp the kingdome of Heauen from Princes and others so
yet this man had he ben in Italie and seene what is there continually donne howe the Exorcistes doo in deede cast forth Deuilles in manner weekely as diuers of our owne Contriemenne that haue ben present can reporte he would for very shame if any were in him haue kepte in that negatiue Verely I feare me he wil one daie procede further and vtterly denie the Order of Bisshops to be necessarie bicause he can franckely say that the Bishops preache not his lustly Caluinian Gospel Yet I trowe he wil be good maister to the Superintendentes of England that be of his owne profession of whom some preache not and some haue not the learning to preache nor yet to tel a wise tale The Apologie Cap. 3. Diuis 2. Pag. 98. Yet notvvithstanding vvee say that there neither is nor can be any one man vvhiche may haue the vvhole superioritie in this Vniuersal state for that Christe is euer presente to assiste his Churche and needeth not any man to supplie his roome as his onely heire to al his Substance and that there can be no one mortal creature vvhiche is hable to comprehende or conceiue in his minde the vniuersal Churche that is to vvit al the partes of the vvorlde muche lesse hable rightly and duely to put them in Order and to Gouerne them Iewel Pag. 98. M. Hardinges ansvvere hereto is too long and tedious Harding I dare wel saie it is too tedious to you and glad would you be to be rid of it if you wist whiche waie Acknowlege the truthe M. Iewel returne from your errour leaue of scoffing suppresse singularitie deliâ—e not in the vaine praises that your ignorant fauourers geue you feare God thinke you can not continue in in this Brauerie alwaies then shal you finde liking in my answere and thinke it nothing to tedious Certaine it is the mater is not so sclenderly to be answered Iewel Pag. 98. VVhere vve saie no one mortal man is hable to vvealde the burthen of the vvhole Churche of God M. Harding ansvvereth vvhere any thing is in deed there vvhether it maie be or not to discusse it is needelesse Therefore vvhether any one man can be superiour and Chiefe ouer the vvhole Church vve leaue to speake that so it is thus vve prooue Euery parishe hath his seueral vicare or person and euerie Diocesâ— his ovvne Bisshâ—ppe Ergo vvhat reason is it there be one Chiefe Gouernour of the vvhole Christen people c. His firste reason concludeth very vveakely Euerie Parishe is Gouerned by one Vicare or Personne and euerie Diocese is gouerned by one seueral Bishop Ergo there is one vniuersal Gouernour ouer the vvhole Churche of Christe Here is neither order in reason nor sequele in nature Therefore of any man vvould denie the argument M. Harding vvere â—â—uer hable to make it good Harding The iustification of this Argument The .10 Chapt. Yeas forsooth the Argument may be proued very wel by this axioma or dignitie in nature vpon the which the Argument is grounded That the whole ought to be gouerned by one general Head whose seueral partes can not be gouerned without seueral Heades If your leisure serue you you may nowe traine the Argument that I was neuer hable to make good as you say for lacke of order in reason and sequele in nature if ye altogether haue not forgotten your Logique whereof you set vs forth so often crakes into the very forme of a good and perfite Syllogisme If your courage then serue you to denie the Argument you shal but disgrace your selfe in denying the groundes of that arte wherein you haue placed a great parte of your glorie and put your selfe to paine to make vs some newe Logique of your owne that menne may trust too Searche diligently the cause without scoffing and wrangling why the seueral partes of the vniuersal Churche Parishes Dioceses prouinces are not hable to be kepte in any good order without seueral heades the selfe cause shal infourme you that the vniuersal Churche may muche lesse be kepte in order without one general Head Render what causes you can M. Iewel you shal neuer be hable to auoide it before any learned companie but that the one shal folowe of the selfe same causes as wel as the other Whereas you runne to disprooue myne argument by making the like of euerie kingdome ruled by one Prince inferring Ergo there ought to be one vniuersal Prince to rule ouer the whole worlde I see no such absurditie in the conclusion of this Argument the seueral rightes of Princes reserued vntouched but that if you should talke with Aristotle that great Philosopher you should see good cause to graunt it If there were but one good Monarke in the whole worlde would there not be fewer broilles and warres in the worlde then nowe we feele Perhappes when the matter is wel weighed it may seeme the worlde was neuer in better state then when it was gouerned by one good Emperour Let a iuste Viewe be taken of Constantines time the Great Yet it must be confessed there is great difference betwixt the Ciuile gouernemeÌ„t of Princes who maie be permitted to rule their seueral Dominions without one general Head bicause they haue to do but with thinges of the worlde as with earthly goodes landes and such other thinges which may receiue diuers kindes of rule without danger of Soules and the Ecclesiastical gouernment whose chiefe respect is to keepe vnitie of Faith in the bonde of peace which may not receiue any alteration without great danger to our Saluation Therefore there is greater cause to haue one general Head or Supreme gouernour without whom this vnitie can not be kepte any long time Hiero. aduersus Iouinianum lib. 1. as S. Hierome witnesseth to rule the whole Churche in matters of Saluation then to haue one Head to rule ouer the whole worlde in wordely matters To your other scorneful Argument of one general Shepehearde to be hadde ouer al the flockes of 〈◊〉 throughout the whole world I wil frame answere when you can prooue that God hath as great care to bring al the shepe in the worlde to the selfe same glorie of life euerlasting as he hath to bring menne or that he hath appointed them any one general ende the whiche they can not atteine without the hauing of one general shepeherd to gouerne the whole kinde But S. Paule putteth al suche fonde reasons to silence by this question where he asketh 1. Cor. 9. Nunquid de bobus cura est Deo Hath God any such special care of kine and Oxen as he hath of menne Put vp such shepeherdes pipes for shame M. Iewel and leaue to piper vs vp such trifles If you minde thus to continue euery ignorant Reader at length shal espie what litle good stuffe ye vtter I made not these reasons for that menne should take them for very precise Demonstrations or for that euery one of them alone had ful force to conclude as though the whole weight
of the matter laie in any one of them But for that natural reason should partely declare to the ignorant who are not hable to conceiue deeper Argumentes that the Order whiche our Sauiour leafte in his Churche the same to be ruled by one general Head doth so sensibly sticke in euery mannes conceite that vnderstandeth the force of any good natural reason that you or any of your felowes with any heapes of impertinent sentences of al sortes of Writers with whiche you fournish vs out bookes of great bulke shal neuer be hable to prooue the contrarie Disorder not 〈◊〉 reasons M. Iewel take them as my selfe haue sette 〈…〉 marke what force they are of when they be linked in one Then ouerthrowe them if you can I am assured you can not The other three reasons to the which you say ye answered in your Replie are so by M. Stapleton returned vpon you againe and your whole answere reprooued that the worlde now seeth what smal worship ye haue wonne thereby I would aduise you to beginne againe and labour for a more sufficient answere elles you may be sure that menne wel geue you ouer for one that promiseth much and perfourmeth nothing Iewel Pag. 100. I graunt Dissension and quarelles be the sooner ended vvhen al thinges be put ouer to one man so that the same man maie liue for euer and stil continue in one minde and neuer alter Harding M. Iewel alloweth no one man to be ruler except he may liue for euer and continue in one minde which is fonde Liue for euer what a blinde answere is this The .11 Chapt. I praie you Sir did Moyses when he had the gouernement of the people of Israel make an ende of no Dissensions and quarelles emong them I weene you wil say yeas And yet he liued not emonge them for euer pardy Did not Iosue so Did not Samuel Did not Dauid Did not Salomon and others Yet I trowe you wil not say they liued for euer Doth not euery Prince dailie within his owne Realme so Euery Bisshop within his owne Diocese the Archebishop within his owne Prouince And yet ye knowe they liue not for euer Heard euer any man a fonder answere made then this The first foure General Councelles ended diuers matters of contention and yet they that were there liued not for euer For very shame cal backe this vnsauery answere againe or at least put it out of your booke at your nexte Impression if the first finde good vtterance and lye not vpon you handes Iewel Ibidem And stil continevv in one minde and neuer alter Harding That is the very cause perhappes why Archeheretiques can make an ende of no Dissension bicause their mindes doo daily 2. Tim. 3. and hourely alter as S. Paule saieth of certaine curious wemenne that were alwaies learning alwaies talking and babling of Scripture and neuer drawing to any good ende neuer atteining to the knowledge of truthe Princes bounde by M. Ievvel to continue stil in one minde You haue bounde Kinges and Princes very hard to continew stil in one minde and neuer to alter so that if one haue cause to warre against the other after warre once entred they may neuer intreate of peace They muste continew stil in one minde and neuer alter They muste keepe so precise and so holesome a diet that they maie liue for euer If they make any statute that is good and necessarie to be kepte for some one time perhappes for the space of v. or vj. yeres afterwarde when the Continuance of suche statutes shal be founde to breede greate disorder and inconuenience to the Realme it shal not be lawful for them to repeale them bicause M. Iewel hath bounde them to continew in the minde they were and neuer to alter For if they once alter how so euer and wherein so euer it be dissensions and quarelles saith he can not by them be appeased and ended and therefore good gouernment shal faile Iewel Pag. 100. But oftentimes one Pope is founde contrarie to an other Harding Answere to the contrarities in certaine Popes reprehended by M. Iewel and to the violating of Pope Formosus dead Carkasse c. Not so ofte as one king is founde contrarie to an other The .12 Chapt. Read the Stories you shal find it true But Lorde what a doo ye make here about the Contrarieties of certaine Popes and yet you shal neuer finde one Pope contrarie to an other in any article of our Faith as heauy a Maister as you are vnto them But why doo you not cal to minde what varietie of opinions ye haue had emong your selues fith ye brought your Gospel first into the Realme Remember within so shorte a time how many sortes of Communions haue benne seene how many sectes haue risen emong your selues How farre the Puritanes who haue wel nigh tried out the Quintessence of your Gospel Puritanes and perhappes at their nexte proceding wil vtterly denie God how farre I saie they are alienated and diuided from you and that not only for Square cappes and side gownes but also for other matters that in their time shal be reueled I wil saie nothing here of the Arians Anabaptistes Libertines and Atheistes who since the first planting of your Gospel haue crepte into the realme and now swarme in diuers places there vncontrolled who if they had the ful libertie ye preached when ye first laboured to supplante the Catholiques were wel like shortely to set you also beside the stoole But they for that their time is not yet come must doo as they maie and be passed ouer as not seene that al the charitable blowes of your fyrie Gospel might light vpon the Catholiques headdes Your manner alwaies is in the allegation of histories as also of other thinges to adde somwhat of your owne as you doo in telling vs how Pope Steuen vnburied his predecessour Pope Formosus â—abellicus falsified by M. Ievvel Sabellicus Ennead 9. lib. 1. where you reporte that he defaced and mangled his naked carkasse The historie maketh mention of no suche mangling and defacing of his Carkasse onely it sheweth that the forefingers of his right hande whiche had benne annointed and consecrated were cut of and that the Pontifical garmentes wherein Popes were wonte of an olde custome to be buried were taken of from his corps A man that had heard of defacing and mangling a naked carkasse would haue thought that the carkasse had benne hewed in peeces or otherwise spitefully mangled Leaue leaue that il propertie for shame M. Iewel Adde not diminishe not tel stories as you finde them and so shal you geue your Aduersarie lesse aduantage against you It is maruaile it came not into your head by diligent searche to finde out a dissension emong the Popes bicause some of them loued rather to eate fishe then fleshe some vsed to rise sooner in the morning some later some were of stature higher some lower And least your storie should be vnrequitted it were
wel done of you to take some litle paines to searche out who of you was the first author of that famous lie against the Catholique Bishoppes The false bruite of king HeÌ„ries body taken avvaie that to bringe them in displeasure with the Quenes Maiestie whiche now is reported that they had taken awaie kinge Henrie the eightes body whiche matter after great bruite spred aboute the Realme after that it came to be searched was tried false and forged and the body was founde safe where it had benne laied But the body of king Henrie the sixth that holy man King HeÌ„rie the sixth his body taken vp and consumed was not founde in his place but said to haue benne burnt by certaine I wil spare their worshippes of Catholique religion I warrant you There is a wiued Superintendent in England that if he be asked can tel tidinges how these thinges were conueied But al thinges ye doo are wel donne and worthie of praise Yet what an impudent lye was that deuised against the Catholique Bishoppes And what an hainous deede was it to violate the Graue to take vp a good Kinges Body and to burne it or otherwise to consume it Yet bicause they that are of your fecte did it it must be praised though it be donne against al good Order Religion and humanitie To be shorte as you are not hable to defende al thinges as wel donne that ye and your felowes haue donne euen so we haue not taken in hande to defende the innocencie of euery Pope in al actes of his life nor yet to take the Popes wil and pleasure to be our staie in al doubteful cases as you impute vnto vs. But the Popes aduised and mature determination folowing the aduise of his learned Doctours assembled together for discussion of weightie matters in general Councelles whiche is an other thing then the Popes wil and pleasure whiche your scoffing head would haue to be our staie we take to be a sufficient resolution of al doubtful cases that are necessarie for vs to knowe Iewel Pag. 100. Hovv be it this I trovve is not the readiest vvaie to procure peace and to mainteine vnitie in the Churche Harding Vnitie is best mainteined by the gouerment of one general Head The .13 Chapt. If the hauing of one king or Prince be the readiest waie to procure peace and mainteine vnitie in worldly matters of a Realme why should not the hauing of one general Head be the readiest waie to procure peace and vnitie in the Churche If that be not the waie you leaue vs none at al. If euery man take that Religion that liketh best his owne phantasie as many doo in diuers partes of the worlde already who shal cal them backe to the true Catholique Religion Iewel And therefore Gregorie saith of Iohn the Bishop of Constantinople that claimed to him selfe this vniuersal povver c. Harding What neede we bestowe moe wordes about this matter of Iohn of Constantinople Iohn the ambitious Bishop of Constantinople claimed the title of vniuersal Bishop M. Stapleton hath answered fully vnto it This Iohn claimed to him selfe the title of vniuersal Bishop meaning thereby that there was no Bishop in the worlde but he whiche title in deede S. Gregorie in that sense coulde not brooke but tooke it to be arrogant and proude And we saie as we haue alwaies said that no Pope euer claimed the title of vniuersal Bishop in that sense that there ought none others to be Bishoppes but he And yet S. Gregorie claimed the right title of the Primacie apperteining to his See in his answere made to Mauricius the Emperour as Platina recordeth And S. Chrysostome Chrysos in Matth. homil 55. in illa verba Ioh. 21. Sequere me homil 87. Aug. de vera religione cap. 45. as we said before doth not spare to tel al Christian menne that to Peter was committed the Charge and Cure of the whole worlde Iewel For although al the vvorlde either vvould or could geue eare and credite to one man yâ—t vvere not that therefore alvvaies Christian vnitie S. Augustine saith Pride it selfe hath a certaine desire of vnitie and of vniâ—ersal povver Harding What should moue you to allege S. Augustine De vera religione against the vnitie of the whole Churche obeying their vniuersal head Did S. Augustine speake any thing of the Pope in that place What so'euer affection there be of Pride or Singularitie in the ruler it toucheth not others but disgraceth his personal actes onely I meane in respect of his owne person not of others who doo but their duetie in obeying what he teacheth or biddeth being their general gouernour or head And in that duetie doing what soeuer the rulers affection is in gouerning they keepe Christian vnitie iâ— Faithe Matth. 23. and Doctrine Vpon the chaire of Moyses the Scribes and Pharisees haue sitte al thinges what so euer they tel you doo ye saith Christe If Christe bad vs to obey the Scribes and the Pharisees as long as they sate in Moyses chaire although their life agreed not with their doctrines what can the Popes il affection of pride hurte the vnitie of Christian menne who doo their duetie in obeying his lawful power Iewel Pag. 100. An other of M. Hardinges reasons is this The Churche labouring here in earth must resemble the Churche of the Saintes triumphing in heauen But in heauen God onely is the gouernoure ouer the vvhole Therfore in the Churche beneathe the Pope likevvise must needes be gouernour ouer the vvhole Thus God must be rated to gouerne aboue and the Pope beneath and so as one some time saide Diuisum imperium cum Ioue Caesar habet Harding You falsifie my wordes and reason my terme is not Must but Meete Shewe it not to be meete Leaue you skoffing and come to the matter Euery good thing is the worse that cometh into your handes Iewel Pag. 100. This is a valiant kinde of argument It holdeth from heauen to earth from angelles to menne from God to the Pope Harding Wel skoffed M. Iewel It was not for naught that the Prophete Dauid in the description of a blessed man saith emong other thinges Psal 1. that he sitteth not in the chaire of Mockers by whiche worde Heretiques are signified which in deede are very skoffers and mockers of al good thinges And weene you good Sir â–ª that an argument maie not holde from heauen to earth Thy wil be donne in earth as it is in heauen Vpon these wordes if you list Matth. 6. maie ye not frame an argument that shal holde from heauen to earth Now from Angelles to menne Videte ne contemnatis vnum ex his pusillis dico enim vobis Matth. 18. quia Angeli eorum in coelis semper vident faciem patris mei qui in coelu est See ye despise not one of these litle ones For I saie vnto you that their Angelles in heauen doo alwaies see the face of my Father whiche
is in heauen Out of this Scripture if your good wil and cunning would serue you ye maie see an argument plainely made from Angelles to menne Likewise from God to the Pope Petre amas me Pasce oues meas Peter louest thou me Iohan. 21. Feede or rule my sheepe If your cunning can not compasse suche Argumentes M. Iewel that are vsed in Scriptures from heauen to earth from Angelles to menne from God to the Pope yet it were good for you to leaue skoffing at suche argumentes as are vsed in the very Scriptures Iewel Pag. 100. But hovv knovveth M. Harding vvhat Orders of Angelles and Archangelles there be in heauen VVhat they doo Hovv they deale c. Harding Of Angelles to what purpose Osee was alleged of the Head inuisible and visible Forsooth I maie easily know that The 14. Chapt. whiche is euidently reueled in the Scripture yea so euidently that yoâ—â— ignorance must seeme to grosse to aske any suche question Of the Angelles That there be orders of Angelles it appeareth boâ—â— in diuers other places and specially by the fourth Chapter of S. Matthew where we finde that the Angellâ—s waite on Christe Matth 4. Beholde saith the Euangeliste the Angelles came and ministred vnto him You might haue founde mention of many thousandes of Angelles in the 12. Hebre. 12. Chapter to the Hebrewes There is mention also made of diuers Orders of Angelles in the epistle to the Colossians Coloss 1. Siue throni sine Dominationes siue Principatus siue Potestates omnia per ipsum in ipso creata sunt Ephes 3. 4. Archangelles 1. Thess 4. The like is to be seene in the epistle to the Ephesians Of Archangelles we reade in the epistle to the Thessalonians that our Lord shal come downe in the voice and in the commaundement or shoute of the Archangel and in the trompe of God In S. Luke we reade that there is more ioie in heauen before the Angelles for one sinner doing penaunce Luc. 15. then there is for 99. iust menne that neede no penaunce In the epistle to the Hebrewes we read that al the Angelles doo honour Christe Hebre. 1. and that al Angelles are spirites to doo seruice sent into seruice for them that doo receiue the inheritance of saluation Dionysius de Coelesti Hierarch cap. 6. Tobia 3. S. Dionyse the Areopagite speaketh of nine Orders of Angelles The Scripture in sundry places telleth vs that the Angelles doo offer vp the praiers of the faithful before God This we knowe of Angelles in heauen that they obey one God that they are spirites so confirmed in grace that now they can not sinne that they are ready to doo Goddes commaundement at al times that there are Orders emong them as there shal be emong them whiche shal be saued emong vs some placed in greater glorie then some others as S. Paule declareth by the diuersitie of Starres 1. Cor. 15. that are not al of one brightnesse We knowe that they being Spirites confirmed in grace hauing no motions at al to doo any thing contrarie to Gods wil neede no Pope to correct to pounish to excommunicate to depriue to depose them and to assoile them This muche we knowe concerning the Angelles and this might you M. Iewel also haue knowen And this confession if occasion so required would better haue becomme you then your skoffes fitter for a common Table Ieaster then for a man who professeth to teache others the duetie of life and truthe of beleefe To S. Dionysius M. Ievvel commoÌ„ly argueth negatiuely from autorities that wrote purposely of the gouernment of the Churche and made no mention of one Pope whiche you obiecte we saie that we holde him for vnskilful in his Logique who deduceth Argumentes negatiuely from any Fathers authoritie as for example That Father or this Father spake not of the proceding of the holy Ghost from the Father and the Sonne Ergo there is no suche thing Yet it had benne more for your commendation to haue argued from Heauen to earth from Angelles to menne from God to the Pope then so sottelike to reason against al good order of learning from Authorities negatiuely Howbeit in dede the manner of your reasoning is not from God to the Pope from Angelles to menne from Heauen to earth â–ª but from truth to errour from Religion to Hugonotrie from Christianitie to Paganisme from good to naught from Christe to Antichriste from God to Satan whiche manner of argumentes is not very holesome The Obiection of the name of Iosue mistaken for Osee You make muche a doo for that I mistake the naâ—â— of Iosue for Osee To mistake one mannes name for an other as long as there is no preiudice thereby made to the necessary doctrine of our Faith and the place truely alleged althoughe the name were mistaken it is but humaine errour In that I named Iosue for Osee I acknowledge myne errour and wishe you would doâ— the like when you erre and then ye should cal in againe al that you haue written hitherto wherein you should doo wel in wise mennes Iudgement and most safely for the wealth of your owne soule But to traine the people from truth to heresie and stubbornly therein to continew as you doo M. Iewel and where no other shifte wil serue you there to assaie whether you can skoffe out the truthe this is not humaine errour but a Deuilish practise Osee to vvhat purpose alleged The place of Osee was alleged for no other purpose but to shew that God doth vs to vnderstand that his Churche militant is then in most perfite state and in best order when al true beleeuers bothe conuerted Iewes and Gentiles doo obey one Head Now then if in the Gouernment of one Head consiste the best Order and state that can be planted in the Church though it be true Christe one and only head Inuisible that our Sauiour Christ be that one Inuisible Head as I neuer denied but that he is yet that the Visible Churche atteine vnto that perfite Order and state whiche the Prophete Osee commendeth for the best Head Visible it behoueth that it haue one Visible general Head that shal keepe and mainteine visible and external Order emong al the faithful This is the force of my drifte Neither for al that did I denie Iohan. 10. but that Christe is that one Head that Christe is that one Shepeheard that S. Iohn spake of whiche I doo openly confesse in my Confutation of the Apologie in the selfe same place where I allege the saying of the Prophete Osee and the saying of Christe out of S. Ihon. So that you needed not to allege al that out of S. Hierome Nicolaus Lyra and S. Augustine to proue that which I confessed before M. Ievvels coÌ„moÌ„ maÌ„ner in al his vvritiÌ„ges But this is your manner alwaies M. Iewel to shewe your copie in matters vndoubted and impertinent and when ye come
me vtique tu scis Domine quia amo te Dicit ei Iesus pasce agnos meos Bene conscius sui non ad tempus assumptum sed iam dudum Deo cognitum Petrus testificatur affectum Quis est enim alius qui de se hoc facilè profiteri possit Et ideo quia solus profitetur ex omnibus omnibus antefertur Our Lorde asked that question of Peter whether he loued him not to learne but to teache him whom being to be lifted vp into heauen he leaft vnto vs The Pope is leaft to vs as the Vicare of Christes loue tovvard vs. as the Vicare of his loue that is to saie in plainer termes such a one as should be in steede of Christe in those thinges that for his tender loue towardes vs he would vs to haue For euen so thou hast in the Ghospel Simon the sonne of Iohn louest me Yea verely thou knowest Lorde that I loue thee Iesus saieth vnto him Feede my lambes Peter here knowing right wel the secretes of his owne conscience professeth that his good affection whiche he bare to Christe was not nowe entred into him for the present time but that God knew it long before For who is the man elles that may soone professe this much of him selfe And therefore in asmuch as he onely of al professeth it he is preferred before al. Lo M. Iewel by this you maie see I spake not of this matter altogether of myne owne head and without farther autoritie S. Ambrose saith in effect so much as I said That Christ for so much as he should ascende into heauen and withdrawe his visible presence from vs leaâ—â— behinde him for our behoofe S. Peter as Vicare of his loue Nowe of this I may conclude for so muche as Christe who died for our loue and redemed vs with his bloude ceasseth not to loue vs that he leafte not onely Peter to be the Vicare of his loue for his owne life only but also Peters Successours for euer that is to saie the Popes for other Peters Successours we knowe not Arnobius likewise vnderstaÌ„deth this supreme charge and auctoritie to be geuen vnto Peter and therefore consequently vnto Peters Successours applying the same texte of Scripture to that purpose These be his wordes Arnobius in Psalm 138. Iohan. 10. Iohan. 21. Nullus Apostolorum nomen Pastoris accepit Solus enim Dominus Iesus Christus dicebat ego sum Pastor bâ—nus iterum me inquit sequunturoues meae Hoc ergo nomen sanctum ipsius nominis potestatem post resurrectionem suam Petropoenitenti concessit ter negatus negatori suo hanc quam solus habuit tribuit potestatem None of the Apostles hath receiued the name of Pastor or shepeheard For our Lorde Iesus Christe alone said I am a good Shepeheard And againe my shepe saith he folow me So then this holy name and the power of the name our Lorde after his resurrection gaue to Peter being repentant and being thrise denied he gaue the auctoritie whiche he had alone vnto his denier Peter by the three fold coÌ„maundement of feeding muste feede al sortes of the Flock the laÌ„bes the youÌ„g litle Sheepe and the great Sheepe S. Ambrose according to the worde of coÌ„mission spokeÌ„ to Peter thrise repeted feede feede feede noteth three degrees of authoritie to be exercised in feeding Iam non agnos vt primò quodam lacte vescendos nec oniculas vt secundò sed oues pascere iubetur perfectiores vt perfectior gubernaret Now that is to say when Christe said at the thirde time Feede Peter is not commaunded to feede lambes that are to be fed with a certaine milke as at the first time nor is he commaunded to feede the litle sheepe as at the second time but the Sheepe he is commaunded to feede that the perfiter should gouerne them that are of the perfiter sorte That learned Father S. Leo saith Leo epist ad Episcopos per prouinciaÌ„ Viennen constitut Cùm Petro prae caeteris soluendi ligandisit tradita potestas pascendarum tamen ouium cura specialius mandata est Whereas the power to loose and binde was deliuered vnto Peter aboue the reste yet the charge of feeding the Shepe is committed to him more specially The same S. Leo saith of Peter in an other place Non solùm Romanae sedis sed omnium Episcoporum nouerunt esse primatem As for Peter they knowe him not onely to be chiefe ruler of the See of Rome but also the Primate of al Bishops Peter primate of al Bisshoppes Serm. 2. in Aniuers Assumpt What shal I allege S. Gregorie whose woordes be most manifest He acknowlegeth S. Peter and therefore euery Bishop of Rome his Successour to haue the charge of the whole Churche by coÌ„mission of Christ alleging to that purpose the wordes for alleging of whiche you blame me as though I did it of mine owne selfe without farther authoritie Thus he saith Epist 32. Cunctis Euangelium scientibus liquet c. It is euident to al that knowe the Gospel that the cure and charge of the whole Church hath ben committed by the word of our Lorde to the holy Apostle Peter prince of al the Apostles For to him it is said Peter Ioan. 22. Luc. 22. louest thou me feede my shepe to him it is said Beholde Sathan hath desired to sifte you as it were wheate and I haue praied for thee Peter that thy faith faile not Math. 16. And thou being once conuerted strengthen thy brethren To him it is said Thou 〈◊〉 Peter and vpon this rocke I wil builde my Churche and the gates of Hel shal not preuaile against it And vnto thee I wil geue the keies of the kingdome of Heauen And whatsoeuer thou bindest vpon earth shal be bound also in heauen and what so euer thou lowsest on earthe shal be lowsed also in heauen Beholde he receiueth the keies of the heauenly kingdome the power of binding and lowsing is geuen to him the charge of the whole Churche and principallitie is committed to him And here I wil adde that foloweth in S. Gregorie tamen vniuersalis Apostolus non vocatur and yet he is not called the vniuersal Apostle least M. Iewel finde great faulte with me Replie 225. as he doth in his Replie for leauing it out and least once againe he feine that I haue the Chinecoughe and that I set S. Gregorie to schoole Gregor lib. 6. epistol 37. and keepe him in awe and suffer him not to tel more then I wil geue him leaue and many suche gaie good morowes that needed not at al. The same S. Gregorie writeth in much like sorte to Eulogius Bisshop of Alexandria Leauing al other Fathers that might here to this purpose be alleged Bernardus lib. 2. de Consideratione for breuities sake I wil ende with S. Bernarde who writeth thus to Eugenius Other pastours haue their flockes assigned vnto them eche man one
you least vs in this case as Iudge and supreme Gouernour to ende al Dissensions and to condemne perilous Heresies They of Germanie take them selues to be as good menne and to knowe the Truth as wel if no better as either D. Parker of Canturburie or M. Grindal of London or Bacheler Yonge of Yorke or any of the other wiued Priestes Monkes and Friers yea as M Iew. of Sarisburie him selfe Ye of England wil not yelde to them of Saxonie they of Lifeland Swethen Denmarke Pole Scotland Zuitzerland and Geneua wil not yelde them selues subiectes to either of you both And yet euery one of these sundry congregations wil preach stil the doctrine of their owne secte one coÌ„trarie to an other How now M. Iewel Let vs heare what wise tale you caÌ„ tel vs by whose authoritie we maie come from these great Dissensions and manifold Schismes to Vnitie Intreatie can not doo it Colloquies meetinges and Conferences of the learned of eche secte can not bring it to passe The more it hath ben attempted the worse ende hath euer benne concluded Haue not you leaft vs then a beautiful Church a blessed coÌ„panie of Ministers that wil not come to Order Yea leauing vs without any lawful authoritie of one Head to reduce vs to vnitie do you not leaue vs in endlesse strifes and indeterminable broilles Be we not much bound vnto you Were not the worlde wise and wel aduised to forsake al old orders and to put coÌ„fidence in this your new deuise The same selfe S. Chrysostome whom you allege to haue al ruled by the Scriptures sawe a litle farther then you see M. Iewel when he said that the charge of the whole worlde was committed to Peter Chrysost in Matth. Homil. 55. Ambros in cap. 24. Luca. Theodoritus in Epist ad Renatum Cyprianus lib. 3. Epist 13. So did S. Ambrose when he named Peter and by a consequent Peters Successour the Vicare of Christes loue So did Theodoritâ—â— when he said the See of Rome holdeth the sterne and hath the gouernment of the Churches of the whole worlde You allege S. Cyprian though farre otherwise then he writeth and that out of that epistle in whiche he willeth Stephanus the Pope to depose Martianus the Bishop of Arles in Fraunce for Heresie and put an other in his roome whiche argueth a supreme authoritie of gouernment in the Pope you allege him I saie as if he said that therefore there are many Bishoppes in the Churche that if one fal into heresie the rest maie helpe But what if there be as many Heretique Bishoppes as there be Catholique as it hath commonly benne seene in the East Churche What if the Heretiques being more learned wil not yeelde Cyprian ad Cornelium lib. 1. Epist. 3. S. Cyprian in an other place spareth not to tel you that Schismes aÌ„d heresies rise of no other cause then for that the whole brotherhed that is to saie the companie of Christian people Obeye not one high Prieste that is in Christes steede Whiche saying by what reason it taketh place in euery seueral Dioces by the same it is to be vnderstanded in respecte of the whole worlde For as Heresies rise of disobedience of the people to their Bishop so they rise no lesse yea rather muche more as experience teacheth of the disobedience of the Bishoppes them selues if they wil not be vnder one Head And as the people are not kepte in vnitie but by being vnder one Bishop so neither the Bishoppes excepte they be likewise vnder one chiefe Head and ruler who is the Successour of Peter to whom as louing Christe more then the reste whiche the Scripture sheweth the charge not onely of the lambes and weaker sheepe but also of the great and stronger sheepe was committed as S. Ambrose before alleged hath wel noted Whether S. Peter were faulte worthy when S. Paule reproued him as you tel vs without proufe Defence pag. 103. it remaineth in question betwixte S. Augustine and S. Hierome But if there were any thing worthy of reprehension in S. Peter that S. Paule sawe there was great humilitie in S. Peter to agnise the faulte by the warning of his inferiour Likewise there was in S. Victor the Pope in that he would geue eare vnto S. Ireneus Of that S. Peters humilitie thus speaketh S. Cyprian in his epistle to Quintus whiche is also rehearsed of S Augustine August li. 2. de Baptis cont Donatist cap. 1. Nam nec Petrus quem primum Dominus elegit super quem aedificauit Ecclesiam suam cùm secum Paulus de Circumcisione disceptaret postmodum vendicauit sibi aliquid insolenter aut arroganter assumpsit vt diceret se primatum tenere obtemperari à nouellis posteris sibi potius debere Example of humilitie to S. Peter For neither Peter whom our Lorde chose to be first and vppon whom he builded his Churche at what time Paule reasoned with him about Circumcision by and by chalenged any thing proudly vnto him selfe or stately tooke ought vpon him as to saie that he helde the Primacie or the chiefe rule ouer al and that suche as came newly to the Faith and were his aftercommers ought rather to obeie him But this kinde of humilitie is not found emong Heretiques The more courteously they be warned of their Heresie the more stubborne they growe and staie not so but doo the vttermost they can to make their parties as good as the Catholiques as by sundry olde heretiques to them that haue reade the Trâ—gedies by them plaied in the Churche is most euident How now M. Iewel What remedie Shal we resorte in this case to any Head that hath General authoritie or stand stil iarring and snarling the one at the other without alremedie For ought I see you are like to leaue vs stil in the briers Touching your gloses of the Canon Lawe they maie perhappes one daie if it shal be thought worth the labour be altogether answered in some one seueral treatise where doubtelesse it shal appeare to your smal estimation with what beggerly ragges and clowtes you haue patched together your clowted cloke Iewel Pag. 104. For the rest M. Harding saith One King is hable to rule one Kingdome Ergo one Pope is hable to rule the vvhole Churche Harding My talke runneth not so bare as you rehearse it your grace is alwaie to reporte worse then you finde I said that a King or Queene in gouerning a Realme ruleth not al in his owne person but doth many thinges by his Deputees and Officers Euen so why maie not the Pope in al Christendome take order by other fitte menne hauing from him commission notwithstanding his person be not present For very shame M. Iewel make not your Aduersaries tale worse then you finde it For by that you must muche discredite your cause Iewel Pag. 104. Of the gouernment of Princes vve haue daielie practise But of Popes that euer vsed this vniuersal Dominion ouer the vvhole Church of
we maie not beleeue the Pope if he be of a contrarie iudgement to Scripture Why did not you first proue that the Pope hath determined against the Canonical Scriptures wherin the whole weight of the mater lieth But your lucke is alway to leaue that vnproued which you should chiefly prooue and to encomber the Reader most with matters impertinent and quite besides the issue S. Augustines place would haue serued better to conclude that menne ought not to beleeue Heretiques whiche are certainely deceiued if they maie not beleeue Catholiques when they be deceiued But then where were your credite become who are proued to be suche Wolues and Traitours as S. Bernard spake of in Goncilio Remensi whiche Councel you allege so often times Pag. 104. Iewel Pag. 107. S. Hierome saithe Dices super Petrum fundatur Ecclesia Hieron Aduersus Iouinian lib. 1. Licet idipsum in alio loco super omnes Apostolos fiat cuncti claues regni coelorum accipiant ex aequo super omnes Ecclesiae fortitudo solidetur Ye vvel saie The Churche is founded vpon Peter Notvvithstanding in an other place the same thing is donne vpon al the Apostles and al receiue the keies of the kingdome of heauen and the strengthe of the Churche is founded equally vpon them al. Harding M. Iewel allegeth this and other places to his owne confusion The. 22. Chapt. What il fortune hath M. Iewel euer to allege the Fathers to his owne shame That so he doth it appeareth by many other and by this very place of S. Hierome against Iouinian whiche he allegeth maimedly cutting of the halfe sentence For the other halfe sentence is this tamen propterea inter duodecim vnus eligitur vt Capite constituto Schismatis tollatur occasio Yet emong the twelue there is one chosen out to thintent he being ordeined Head the occasion of Schisme be taken awaie Thus S. Hierome there If I had nipte of such a notable peece of a sentence M. Iewel would haue benne at me with the Chinecough c. It had serued S. Hieromes turne better reasoning against Iouinian the Heretique who affirmed the state of Virgins to be of no greater perfection then the state of married personnes as M. Iewel doth also at this daie which heresie S. Hierome confuted neuer to haue graunted that S. Peter who had ben a married man was ordeined to be the Head of the Churche if it had benne as M. Iewel would persuade But bicause the truth was that S. Peter was appointed Head emong the Apostles S. Hierome doth not denie it but sheweth the cause why he was preferred before S. Ihon the Euangelist This is M. Iewels plaine dealing What is falsehod if this be not falsehod Iewel Pag. 107. S. Chrysostome of Peter saith thus Crysost in Matth. hâ—mil 83. Duplex crimen erat tum quia repugnauit tum quia caeteris seipsum praeposuit Peter vvas in double faulte bothe for that â—e vvithstoode Christe and also fâ—r that he set him selfe before the reste Harding The common saying is the blinde eateth many a flie Euen so doth M. Iewel for lacke of dewe consideration deuoure many a soule errour S. Chrysostome hath not one iote in this place that maketh for M. Iewel He speaketh of that stoute confidence that Peter had of him selfe when he said Mat. 26. Tvvo faultes coÌ„mitted by S. Peter Zacha. 13 Although they al meaning the reste of the Apostles shal be offended by thee I wil not be offended by thee Neuerthelesse he offended twise saith S. Chrysostome First in that he withstoode Christe and considered not what was alleged out of Zacharie the Prophet before who said I wil smite the shepeheard and the sheepe shal be scattered Yet S. Peter were it for the great loue and the affection that he bare to his Maister or were he touched with some ambition and trusted to wade through of him selfe without farther helpe of special grace warranted the mater that he would neuer fal from Christe There is one of his faultes The other faulte is Quoniam praeposuit se illis bicause he prefered him selfe before the other Apostles What meaneth that M. Iewel saie you What so euer you would menne should thinke of it it maketh no mater The right meaning of the place is that Peter offended the second time bicause he thought him selfe more sure as touching standing to his Maister then al the reste of the Apostles What is this to the meaning that you would faine wring out of this place that Peter was not Head of the Apostles In the selfe same Homilie before S. Chrysostome calleth him verticem Apostolorum the very Head and chiefest of al the Apostles EtiaÌ„ ipsum ApostoloruÌ„ verticem negare permisit Christ suffered saith he the toppe or head him selfe of the Apostles to denie him Againe S. Chrysostome faithe in an other Homilie as is afore tolde that Peter had committed vnto him the charge Chrysost hom 55. in Matt. and gouernment of the whole worlde Thus you may see how al thinges go against the heare as they say with you M. Iewel thus alwaies to allege suche sayinges out of the Fathers as further not your cause but rather hinder it So shal al they doo that fight against the Truth Ievvel Pag 107. Augustin epist 86. S. Augustine maketh Peter Felovve and Equal vvith the other Apostles Inter seconcorditer vixerunt Petrus Condiscipuli eius Peter and his felovves liued agreably together Harding Peter felow Disciple with the rest and yet Head of al by S. Augustine The 23. Chapt. Peter and they that were Christes Disciples with him liued concorditer for that is S. Augustines worde in good concorde together I graunt what conclude you thereof So did Christe and the Apostles liue in concorde and agreably together and yet there was a difference betwen them pardy If you harpe vpon the terme Condiscipuli Ioan. 15. Matt. 28. whiche you interprete felowes Christe calleth his Apostles in one place his frendes and in an other place his brothers And yet euery wise man confesseth a difference and that Christe was their Head and that they were his Disciples and subiectes Euen so maie we iudge of this Felowship that was betwen Peter and the reste of the Apostles How be it in the selfe same Epistle of S. Augustine S. Peter is called Caput Apostolorum Coeli ianitor Ecclesiae fundamentum Augustin epist 86. The Head of the Apostles the porter of Heauen and the foundation of the Churche Which saying not being S. Augustines owne but an other mans yet his sileÌ„ce in not speaking against it in that place proueth that he doth wel allow it And that to be euen so the same S. Augustine in a Sermone whiche he made to the people vnto whom he spake alwaies without al obscuritie the plaine truth calleth S. Peter Head of the Churche saying Augustin de tempo Ser. 124. Head of the churche Totius corporis
morbum in ipso capite componit Ecclesiae in ipso vertice componit membrorum omnium sanitatem in Petroscilicet illo qui dixerat etiam si oportuerit me mori tecum non te negabo He cureth the sickenes of the whole body in Peter the very head it selfe of the Churche and in the very crowne of the head it selfe he setteth in order the health of al the members I meane in the selfe same Peter that had said Although I were driuen to die with thee Mat. 26. I wil neuer denie thee Iewel And the very Ordinarie Glose geueth these vvordes to S. Paule Non didici ab aliis tanquam à maioribus sed contuli cum illis Gloss Galat 2. tanquam cum amicis paribus I learned not of Peter and others as of my betters but I had conference with them as with my Equalles and frendes Harding Difference betwen learning and conferring together Had M. Iewel learnedly considered the difference The 24. Chapt. that is bewixt learning and conferring he would neuer for very shame haue alleged thâ—s place of the Ordinarie Glose In learning the teacher is of greater dignitie In conferring what soeuer the personnes otherwise are either of one dignitie or of diuers as touching the act of conference they make them selues equal as doth the King with his Counsel when they laie their heades together to boult out one mater Yet no man maie thereof reason that there is no difference of state betwixte the King and them of his Counsel or that euery of the Counsel is of equal state one with an other What neede S. Paule had of S. Peter to haue matters decided by his authoritie Actâ— 15. it appeareth in the Actes of the Apostles when he with Barnabas and others were sent from Antioche to Hierusalem to know whether the Gentiles were bounde to be circumcised But M. Iewels happe is alwaies to fal vpon places that bringe him smal worship or aduantage of his cause The Apologie Part. 2. Cap 3. Diui. 4. pag. 107. It vvas said indifferently to them al feede ye c. Confutation Wee denie that it was said indifferently to them al Feede ye Iohan. 21. yea or that it was said at al Feede ye To Peter and none elles was it said Feede my lambes Feede my sheepe .. Which worde of Feeding so singularly spoken to Peter in the presence of the other Apostles proueth that it was not indifferently said to al Feede ye Iewel Pag. 107. It forceth not greatly vvhat M. Hardinge denie or graunte hauing neither reason nor autoritie but onely his ovvne But if povver vvere not geuen indifferently to al the Apostles tel vs then vvherein is the â—ddes VVhat had Peter more VVhat had the others lesse Or vvhat olde Doctour or learned Father euer savv this difference Harding M. Iewel is tolde where he maie finde his demaundes answered and are also here answered in parte Though we tel you this The 25. Chapt. and proue it neuer so plainely yet stil wil you wrangle The Fathers haue infinite places for Peters preeminence aboue the rest as I haue partely here but more largely in my Answer Ansvver to your Chalenge shewed Article 4. Yea the selfe same places of the Fathers that you allege to proue the contrarie apparently within few lines after doo vtterly and in plaine wordes so refute you as your selfe knowe that for very shame you durst not to allege any whole place of certaine the olde Fathers but Iewishly lefte them circumcised as I haue shewed before in sundry allegations of S. Hierome of S. Chrysostome of S. Augustine and of others wherby the Reader hath a viewe and maie conceiue what you haue done in the reste And yet suche is your impudencie as though you walked inuisible and none were hable to detecte your false dealing you cal importunately vpon vs to shewe the oddes and to tel you what authoritie Peter had more then the reste And to declare what olde Father euer sawe any suche difference If it maie please you to reade the fourth Article of my Answere to your Chalenge M.D. Saunders booke entitled the Rocke of the Churche and M. Stapletons Returne of your Vntruthes vpon you in iustificatioÌ„ of Vntruthes which you impute vnto mee there maie you haue moe olde Fathers then ye haue yet or euer shal be hable to make reasonable answer vnto A most plain and euident testimonie of the Popes Primacie ouer al the vvorlde Chrysost homil 1. de poeniteÌ„tia In the meane time tel vs what S. Chrysostome meant when he said thus in his first homilie de poenitentia Ecclesiae primatum gubernationemque Petro per vniuersum mundum Christus tradidit Christ hath deliuered vnto Peter the primacie and gouernment of the Churche through the whole worlde When ye can shewe vs suche a plaine testimonie out of any Father that S. Peter had not the primacie and supreme gouernment deliuered vnto him by Christ you shal seeme to saie somewhat Iewel Pag. 107. 108. Christe saide equally vnto them al. Receiue the holy Ghoste whose sinnes ye forgeue they are forgeuen Goe into the whole worlde Preache the Gospel to euery creature These vvordes perceiue equally vnto al. Peter had no more the holy Ghoste no more povver to forgeeue sinnes no more commission to go into the vvhole vvorlde no more authoritie to preache the Gospel then others had Harding Why are you so copious in bye maters wherein I neuer striued with you and so barrein in the principal mater that lieth in controuersie betwixte vs Equal power was graunted to the Apostles to gather the Church this was neuer denied you But their power was not equal to rule the Church after that it was gathered from euery coaste of the worlde The which point you disproue not Iewel Pag. 108. M. Harding saithe To the Reste of the Apostles it vvas not said at al Iohan. 21. Feede ye To Peter and to none els vvas it said Feede my Lambes Feede my sheepe Yet Christe him selfe saithe Quod vni dico omnibus dico Marc. 13. That I saie to one I saie to al. Harding M. Iewel fouly falsifieth the worde of Christ him selfe What M. Iewel wil ye neuer leaue your falsifying The 26. Chapt. And are ye not a fraide to corrupte the holy Worde of the Sonne of God him selfe Is our cause so good and substantial that ye can make no shewe of truthe a-against it but by foule corruption of the Scripture Where is this written Be ye not a fraide for your aduantage to deceiue the worlde with Scripture of your owne making And were it true that S. Marke had so written how can you wreste it to your purpose Thus it is good Reader Our Sauiour gaue a general warning not onely to the Apostles but to al menne beleeuing in him to be watcheful against our Lordes comming which shal be suddeinely at suche time as they know not and therefore said Vigilate
to conclude with S. Augustine thus he saith speaking of S. Peter Quis nescit illum Apostolatus principatum August de Baptis cōtra Donatist lib. 2. cap. 1. cuilibet Episcopatui praeferendum Who knoweth not that that Princehood of the Apostleship is to be preferred before euery Bishops state Where is this great blasphemie becomme that M. Iewel so horribly layth to our charge What wil he accuse al these holy and learned Fathers of Blasphemie I hope though he spare not vs yet he wil be good Maister vnto S. Bernard S. Gregorie S. Augustine S. Chrysostome and to Eusebius As for S. Leo who is plainest of al I dare not here to name least I should seeme to reuerse M. Iewels high iudgemēt whom he hath so late here before by his solēne sentence cōdemned Yet it maie please him to be aduertised by vs that Titles which appertaine to God him selfe when they are in their dewe order and degree geuen vnto menne Exod. 7. Psal 81. conteine no blasphemie Moyses is called in Scripture the God of Pharao And rulers in the Psalmes are called also by the name of Goddes Iewel As for the other authoritie of S. Cyprian M. Harding saith vvee vnderstood it not and therefore he vvilleth vs to looke better vpon our bookes The Councel is good c. Harding The origen of vnitie beginneth of one who is Peter by S. Cyprian The popes preeminence proued by S. Basil The .35 Chapt. The fruiteles paine you tooke in laying forth so many places of S. Cyprian together and al to the ende menne should conceiue you vnderstode your booke doth geue vs sufficient witnesse that either of malice you wil not or of ignorance you can not declare to what ende al those places doo perteine If you had ioined to these places of S. Cyprian whiche you allege but one place of the same S. Cyprian which you durst not talke of least al your confuse heape should stande you in no steede the case had ben so plaine that the shame would haue benne yours S. Cyprians whole purpose is to shew Christian menne not by long talke of argumentes but by the marking of two thinges that is to saie the Churches receiued Doctrine and the Head of the Churche how to staie them selues in the right faith and vnitie when so euer Schismes and Heresies shal happen to rise For this purpose he speaketh of the Churche and of the vnitie of the Church whiche vnitie among diuers other thinges doth principally stand in the hauing of one Bishop to be Head ouer al. Although saith S. Cyprian Christe geue equal power after his resurrection to al the Apostles and saie Cyprianus de Simplic Praelatorum as my Father hath sent me euen so doo I sende you receiue ye the holy Ghost if ye shal remitte any mannes sinnes they shal be remitted vnto him if ye shal retaine any mannes sinnes they shal be reteined yet to the ende he would make Vnitie manifest he ordeined by his authoritie the beginning or origine of the same vnitie to beginne from one to witte from Peter The reste of the Apostles were the same that Peter was endewed with like felowship both of honour and of power but the beginning riseth forth from vnitie to witte frō Peter that the Churche may be shewed to be one Hitherto S. Cyprian This place of S. Cyprian doth sufficiently proue not only that Christe beganne his Church from Peter but also why he would there should be only one from whom he might beginne his Churche and not those many of whom M. Iewel dreameth bicause saith he he would haue his Churche shewed one The plaine meaning whereof can be none other but that the Vnitie of the Churche can by no other waie so conueniently stand as by the hauing of one visible Bishop head ouer al. As the multitude of Priestes Hieron ad Euagrium of whom S. Hierome speaketh in his Epistle to Euagrius was driuen to choose one to be Bishop emong them in Alexandria that was S. Markes see to auoide Schismes that would haue rent and torne the Churche asundre and to keepe Vnitie euen so S. Cyprian sawe that emong the multitude of Bishoppes the case being like to auoide Schismes and to keepe vnitie Hiero. aduersus louinianum lib. 1. it was necessarie one Bishop to be placed head ouer al. The which thing S. Hierome saith Christ did when he ordeined Peter Head of the Apostles to take awaie occasion of Schisme As touching the place of S. Basil alleged for the gouernement by a multitude of Pastours if M. Iewel meane Basil ad Neocaesarienses that S. Basil thought the multitude of Pastours should rule without hauing of one Head he is farre deceiued and yet that must he meane otherwise that place maketh nothing for him But that vntrue meaning of his needeth no other wise to be controlled then by S. Basil him selfe writing thus to S. Athanasius Basiliusin epistol ad Athanasium pag. 549. In Graeco codic Frobe◠Visum est vtile scribere ad Episcopum Romanum vt consideret res nostras iudicij sui decretum interponat vt quoniam de communi Conciliari Decreto aliquos inde huc emandari difficile est ipse sua authoritate negotium componat c. It hath seemed good vnto vs to write vnto the Bishop of Rome that he wil consider of our cases or * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 visite vs for so the Greke maie be translated and to determine the matter by his sentēce that for as much as it is hard for any to be sent hither from thence by authoritie of a common and Synodical Decree 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he take the matter into his owne hande and by his authoritie strike the stroke Why should S. Basil being a Greeke of the East Churche thinke it conuenient to write to the Bishop of Rome being in the Weast to consider of or to visite them of the East for so to the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth their state and to sende foorth a Decree of his iudgement and to geue sentence onlesse he agnised the prerogatiue of the Bishop of Rome whiche your felowes denie Verely by this place it appeareth euidently of what iudgemēt S. Basil was touching the Bishop of Rome his Supreme Authoritie in rule The more ye stirre this matter the more it turneth stil to your owne shame Iewel Pag. 115. The vvhole body of Christendome vvas diuided into foure Patriarkeshippes vvhereof the first vvas Rome Harding Search out M. Iewel The .36 Chapt. by whome was the whole Body of Christendome diuided into foure Patriarkshippes whereof the first and chiefe was Rome and why Rome was the first and not rather the second or third thereby shal you perceiue how your selfe vnwares are taken in your owne snare In Praefat. Nicen. Concil In the Preface of the Nicene Councel we read that the Churche of Rome was preferred before al other not
should chalenge that name vnto him These thinges are at large proued and set forth bothe by me in my Answer Ansvver to your Chalenge Artic. 4. fol. 90. b. Returne Artic. 4. and by M. Stapleton in his Returne of Vntruthes against you M. Iewel where you shal finde that S. Gregorie did exercise his iurisdiction ouer al the Bishops in the worlde in case they failed in any thing and tooke him selfe to haue cure and charge of them al not as a King and Tyrant but as a brother yea rather a seruant to al. Gregor Lib. 7. Epist 64. For he confesseth euery Bishop to be his equal so long as he sinneth not or as longe as his Church suffereth not some defecte And in that case he supplieth al negligences and al defectes and prouideth for al Churches in Asia in Europa and in Aphrica as his Epistles doo fully declare The whiche if I were disposed here ambitiously to blase as M. Iewelles custome is I might write out the effecte of twelue great bookes of S. Gregories epistles whiche doo fully proue these my sayinges But for so muche as that is already donne sufficiently let this one sentence serue for al. S. Gregorie saith of his owne Church of Rome The Apostolike See Head of al churches Gregor li. 11. epist 54. Apostolica Sedes omnium Ecclesiarum Caput est The Apostolike See is the Head of al Churches This being so let vs now consider that M. Iewel doth not only mislike with the name of Vniuersal Bishop as not becoÌ„ming the Bishop of Constantinople because he was of lower degree then the Bishop of Rome nor only as vnseemely also for the Bishop of Rome bicause it conteineth a proude and ambitious brag and a meaning that may be taken in euil sense for which cause no Bishop of Rome euer vsed that name Defence pag. 118. but also he misliketh with me for saying that the name of Vniuersal Bishop in a right sense is no proude name in respect of him to whom it belongeth By a right sense I meane that sense which S. Gregorie allowed and that whiche the fourth general Councel allowed Yea farther M. Iewel saith that some Popes would haue had Ibidem and ambitiously laboured for the title of Vniuersal Bisshop and againe that the Councel of Carthage forbad the Pope of Rome to be called the Vniuersal Bisshop Al these thinges are false and fond as now it shal be proued Gregor li. 4. epist 32 ad Mauricium IteÌ„ eodeÌ„ lib. epist 36. ad Eulogium Anastasium Item codem lib. epist 38. ad Iohannem CoÌ„stantinop Gregor li. 4. epist 36 Tâ—e name of Vniuersal Bishop offered to Popâ— Leo by the Councel of Chalcedon The name of Vniuersal 8. in vvhat sense agreable to the â—ope Firste S. Gregorie witnesseth that the fourthe Councel offered the name of Vniuersal Bishop to Pope Leo â–ª Therefore saie I there is a good meaning in that name whiche the See of Rome maie laufully vse For it is not to be thought that the fourth Vniuersal Councel assembled out of the whole worlde wherein were six hundred thirty and six Bishops would haue offered that name vnto the Pope whiche by no meanes could be verified of him S. Gregories wordes are these written to Eulogius and Anastasius the two patriarches of Alexandria and of Antioche Sicut veneranda vestra sanctitas nouit vni per sanctam Chalcedonensem synodum Pontifici sedis Apostolicae cui Deo disponente deseruio hoc Vniuersitatis nomen oblatum est As your Reuerend holines knoweth this name of Vniuersalitie or of Vniuersal Bishop was offered by the holy Councel of Chalcedon to the only Bishop of the Apostolike See wherein I serue by the disposition of God If then that name of Vniuersalitie was offered to the Pope and onely to him how can it be iustified that the said name may in no sense be agreeable vnto the Pope of Rome If it may be agreeable vnto the Pope in any sense it is in this bicause he is the chiefe of al Bishops who by office hath care of the whole Churche For the name of Vniuersal must needes haue respecte to the Whole Churche And in that only sense did the Fathers of that Councel of Chalcedon offer that name to the Pope bicause they knew that thing dignitie and office to be in the Pope for that he is S. Peters Successour whiche cause also is expressed in S. Gregorie Gregor lib 4. epist 32. Certè nomen Vniuersalis Episcopi pro beati Petri Apostolorum Principis honore per venerandam Chalcedonensem SynoduÌ„ Romano Pontifici oblatum est Soothly the name of Vniuersal Bishop was offered by the reuerend Councel of Chalcedon to the Bishop of Rome for the honour of S. Peter the Prince of the Apostles Marke M. Iewel he saith not that it was offered bicause Rome was the Emperial Citie That had ben a heathnish respecte but it was offered for the honour of S. Peter If it may then be vsed in a good sense only of that Bishop who is the Successour of S. Peter M. Iewel hath vniustly reproued me That no Pope vsed the title of Vniuersal Bishop Gregor li. 4. epis 32 Now to the second point that no Pope vsed the same title So saith S. Gregorie in the same place Nullus corum vnquam hoc singularitatis vocabulum assumpsit nec vti consensit ne dum priuatum aliquid daretur vni honore debito Sacerdotes priuarentur vniuersi None of the Bishops of Rome hath taken this name of Singularitie vpon him nor did consent to vse it lest whiles some peculiar thing should be geuen to one al Priestes or Bishops together should be depriued of their due honour This modestie was then in Popes for six hundred yeres together But this man here saith Iewel Pag. 118. VVherfore then did their Successours that folovved aftervvard so ambitiously labour to geate the same Harding They laboured not for it nor vsed it any time afterward as their style in al ages til this day doth witnesse For the Bishoppes of Rome doth not write them selues Vniuersal Bishops The Popes stile Seruus seruoruÌ„ Dei but eche one Seruum Seruorum Dei the Seruant of Goddes Seruantes And that style was of purpose taken and reteined of them to checke thereby the pride of the Bishop of Constantinople who neuer leaft his proude name of Vniuersal til the Turcke was sent ouer him to chasten bothe him for his Shisme and al that defended or obeied him in despite of the Bishop of Rome And that you bring out of Platina proueth not that any Pope euer called him selfe Vniuersal Bishop but when the Bishops of Rome sawe that the Bishops of Constantinople would needes by force keepe and vse that arrogant name Bonifacius 3. then Bonifacius the third intending to stay that together with that name the right of the See Apostolike should not be lost and passe away to the See of Constantinople then I
saie Bonifacius obteined verely not that the See of Rome should be made Vniuersal or be made Head of al Churches for so it was euer but that it might be so taken and called of al men lest the Grecians should thinke that the chiefe Pastour of Gods sheepe sate in Constantinople Whereof it would folow that if the chiefe Postour once taught Heresie as now the Bishop of Constantinople doth concerning the proceding of the holy Ghost then the whole Church should perish sith al the flocke dependeth vpon the chiefe shepeheard Now M. Iewel as he is woont to doo hath most guilefully endeuoured to persuade the Reader that the Popes cal them them selues Vniuersal Bishoppes and bringeth Platina forth in suche sorte that he wil not let him speake his whole minde His wordes are these Platina in vita Bonifacij 3. Bonifacius tertius à Phoca Imperatore obtinuit magna tamen contentione vt sedes beati Petri Apostoli quae caput est omnium Ecclesiarum ita diceretur haberetur ab omnibus quem quidem locum Ecclesia Constantinopolitana sibi vendicare conabatur fauentibus interdum malis Principibus affirmantibúsque eò loci primam sedem esse debere vbi Imperij Caput esset Affirmabant Romani Pontifices vrbem Romam vnde Constantinpolis Colonia deducta est Caput Imperij meritò habendam esse cùm etiam Graeci ipsi literis suis principem suum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 id est Romanorum Imperatorem vocent ipsique Constantinopolitani etiam aetate nostra 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non Graeci vocentur Omitto quòd Petrus Apostolorum Princep◠Successoribus suis Pontificibus Romanis regni coelorum claues dederit potestatémque à Deo sibi concessam reliquerit non Constantinopoli sed Romae Illud tamen dico multos Principes maximè verò Constantinum comparandae Synodi ac dissoluendae confutandi vel confirmandi ea quae in Synodis decreta erant Romanae sedi tantummodo concessisse Meritò igitur sedes Romana caeteris antefertur cuius integritate constantia cunctae haereses confutatae sunt explosae Boniface the third obteined of Phocas the Emperour although not without great difficultie that the See of the blessed Apostle Peter whiche is the Head of al Churches should both so be called and also taken of al men the which place or preferment the Churche of Constantinople went about to chalenge wicked princes sometimes helping foreward the matter affirming that the chiefe See ought to be in that place where the Head of the Empire was The bishops of Rome auouched that the citie of Rome was for good cause to be taken for the Head of the Empire as from whence the citie of Constantinople had benne translated Whereas also the Grecians them selues cal their Prince the Emperour of the Romains and they of Constantinople euen in our daies are called Romaines and not Grecians I let passe how Peter the prince of the Apostles gaue vnto his Successours the Bishops of Rome the Keies of the Kingdom of Heauen and leafte the power that was geuen him of God not to Constantinople but to Rome Onely this I saie that many Princes but specially Constātine graunted to the See of Rome only power and authoritie to gather and dissolue Councels to reiecte and allow those things that were decreed in Synodes Therefore the See of Rome is worthily preferred before the rest as by whose integritie and constancie al Heresies haue ben confuted and quite put awaie This was the Platina M. Iewel whom you alleged and durst not let him to tel out his tale But he saith not that the Popes laboured to be called Vniuersal Bishops but onely to staie the Grecians from a false and erroneous opinion and to kepe them in the vnitie of the Romaine Churche from whence that vsurped name did by litle and litle withdraw them Thus haue we seene two errours of yours the one Three errours of M. Ievv touching this point of vniuersal Bishop whereas you reproue me for saying that the name of Vniuersal taken in a right sense is no prowd name in respect of the Bishop of Rome the other bicause you impute to the Bishops of Rome that they laboured for that ambitious name The third errour foloweth Pag. 118. which is worse then the other two For you saie these be the wordes of the Coūcel of Carthage as Gratian allegeth them Dist 99. Prima Vniuersalis Episcopus nec ipse Romanus Pontifex appelletur The Bishop of Rome him selfe may not be called the vniuersal Bishop And this thing you prosecute Pag. 121. 122. and repeate againe and againe But you belie the Councel and Gratian and the Glose too al at once And yet you are so highly auaunced in your owne conceite that ye seeme to make a glorious triumphe for it Thus you saie Iewel Pag. 121. Novv M. Harding compare our vvordes and the Councelles vvordes together VVe saie none othervvise but as the Councel saith The Bishop of Rome himselfe ought not to be called the Vniuersal Bishop Herein vve do neither adde nor minish but reporte the vvordes plainely as vve finde them If you had lookte better on your booke and vvould haue tried this mater as you saie by your learning ye might vvel haue reserued these vnciuil reproches of falshed to your selfe and haue spared your crying of shame vpon this defender Harding I neuer cried so ofte shame vpon the Defender as he deserued and that he is a shamelesse man it shal now be here as cleerly tried as euer it was before I laie three maine Lies to your charge in this mater Three main lyes laid to M. Ievvels charge Pag. 118. Pag. 121. Let the worlde vnderstande how wel ye are hable to discharge them One for that you say the Coūcel of Carthage forbiddeth the Pope to be called Vniuersal Bishop An other for that you saie that Gratian saith so The third for that you saie that so muche is noted in the Glose First the Councel of Carthage is extant bothe in Greke and in Latin but those wordes be founde in neither of bothe Copies In Greeke the Decree is thus vttered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In whiche wordes there is no mention made of the Vniuersal Bishop Now the Latin wordes are these in the first booke of the Councels Carthag Conc. 3. c. 26. Vt primae sedis Episcopus non appelletur Princeps Sacerdotum aut summus Sacerdos aut aliquid huiusmodi sed tantùm primae sedis Episcopus It is by vs decreed that the Bishop of a first See be not called the Prince of Priestes or the highest Priest M. Iev falsifieth the Coūcel of Carthage In Nomocanon or any the like but onely the Bishop of a first See Where also no mention is made of the Vniuersal Bishop Balsamon also making a Comment vpon the same Canon yet speaketh no worde of the Vniuersal Bishop We see then plainely that M. Iewel hath falsified the said Canon by
euer allege against the truth without some corruptioÌ„ In S. Paules words you leaft out a smal word in appearance but yet great of strength The worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 enim M. Ievv corrupteth S. Paule which in english doth signifie for This word for geueth great light to S. Paules meaning For wheÌ„ he had said that the preaching of the Gospel to the Gentiles was coÌ„mitted vnto him euen as the preaching of the Gospel to the Iewes was coÌ„mitted vnto S. Peter least any man should thinke that he meant of a special commission purposely reserued to him alone by God he declareth how that commission might be proued Qui enim operatus est Petro For he that hath wrought in Peter in the Apostleship of the Circuncision that is to saie of the Iewes hath wrought in me also emong the gentiles That same enim for doth make the place plaine They knew that God had no lesse committed the Gentiles to Paule then the Iewes to Peter How knew they it For he wrought now as mightily with Paule emong the Gentiles as he had wrought before with Peter emong the Iewes So that S. Chrysostome wel noteth Chrysost in 2. ca. ad Galat. non dixit postquà m audissent sed cognouissent hoc est ex ipsis didicissent factis He said not after they had heard but after they had knowen that is to say after they had learned by the deedes them selues Marke M. Iewel marke the deedes them selues It was now the commission of the deedes whereby God declared him selfe to haue wrought in them both But that not withstanding S. Peter did might and ought to preache vnto the Gentiles and to plant and dispose their Churches no lesse then S. Paule And S. Paule might likewise plante dispose and order the Iewes Churches For their right was one concerning the Apostolike authoritie Iewel VVhere you say that according to the ecclesiastical Canons euer from the Apostles time Bishops haue euermore ben consecrated by three other bishops vvith the confirmation of the bishop of Rome Harding I said M. Ievv falsifieth my saying with the consent of the Metropolitane which you haue here pared awaie and Confirmation of the Bishop of Rome I added also thus Vnitie hath euer benne kepte whiche you also haue vntruly leaft out Iewel Pag. 129. As if vvithout him no man might be allovved to be a Bishop yee should not so vnaduisely report so manifest Vntruth For I besech you vvhere be these Ecclesiastical Canons VVho deuised them VVho made them VVho gaue the Pope that singular priuilege that no Bishop should be admitted in al the vvorlde but onely by him Harding Among the Canons of the Apostles this is the first Episcopus à duobus aut tribus Episcopis ordinetur Let a Bishop be ordered or made Bishop by two or three Bishoppes These Canons are allowed by the sixth General Councel Yet can you aske where be these Ecclesiastical Canons who deuised them who made them By a Decre of Hilarius no Bishop can be coÌ„secrated without the Metropolitanes consent What Consecration could M. Iewel and his felowes haue who hath neither Metropolitan at al nor lawful Bishop to Consecrate them Howbeit touching this I nede to saie litle for in the very nexte side of the leafe M. Iewel confuteth him selfe Where as one that had quite forgoten him selfe he saith thus Our Bishoppes are made in Fourme and Order as they haue benne euer by free election of the Chapter by the Consecration of the Archebishop and other three Bishoppes If this be the Fourme and Order of making Bishops that hath benne euer to be Consecrated by tharchebishop and three other Bishops why were you so hote against me in calling for th'Ecclesiastical CanoÌ„s which you bind your selfe now to shew or elles you must confesse that you haue made this new order that hath not ben euer Anacletus In epist Decret The Popes autoritie of coÌ„fiming Bishops is of Christ Ioan. 21. But now concerning the Popes authoritie to confirme Bishops to omit for this present the olde Canon of Pope Anacletus which is afterward alleged and to shew the first author of this mater Christe who made Peter the chiefe Pastour of al and who gaue commission to him louing him more then the other Apostles did to feede accordingly as he loued that is to feede more then the oâ—her Apostles did Christe who inspired Peter to goe to Rome and there to settle the Apostolike See and Chaire of his Bishoply Primacie Christe who inspired Peter to make S. Clement and the other Bishoppes of Rome his Successours gaue the Bishop of Rome Peters Successour this Priuiledge that no Bishop ought to be a Bishop without his consent For what reason can suffer that any man shal gouuerne any part of those sheepe whiche are al committed to the Bishop of Rome without the Bishop of Romes consent which consent is a Confirmation sufficient to any Bishop for the due gouernmeÌ„t of his flocke Now this consent of the Bishop of Rome was many wayes knowen For when soeuer he coÌ„sented to the general order of the catholik Church to wit that he should be a Bishop whosoeuer were laufully chosen by the Clergie Optatâ—us lib. 2. Communicatorie letters then his coÌ„sent was geuen generally And when after the election made coÌ„municatorie letters thereof came to Rome as to be head place of the Christian CoÌ„munion then was the said Bishop specially coÌ„firmed and so coÌ„firmed that the Pope could not choose but coÌ„firme him except he could make any iust exceptioÌ„ against him For as no man ought to gouuerne in the Church without the Popes confirmatioÌ„ when it may coÌ„modiously be had without impediment euen so the Pope must nedes confirme those who are lawfully chosen except he wil vpon good ground change the gouuernmeÌ„t of the Dioces to a more profitable order as many times it hath ben don This mater would require a large Treatise But it is in part handled already in my first booke set forth against the Articles of your ChaleÌ„ge M. Iew. wher you might haue sene what I alleged why the Pope should confirme Bishops so that now this thing should not haue ben so strange vnto you Ievvel Pag. 129. I remember your Canonistes haue said Felin D. constitut ca. Canonum statuta col 6. ver fallit M. Ievvel speaketh as if he had ben a Canonist many yeres agoe the Pope may make a Bishop only by his vvorde vvithout any farther Consecration Harding Do you remember it M. Iewel It was clearkly spoken forsooth and in such sort as if you had ben an olde studeÌ„t of the CanoÌ„ law many a winter past and that now whiles you had ben occupied in higher maters yet some of these former meditations had come againe to your minde and worthily For it was a thing much to be mused vpon of him that occupieth a Bishops place what Felinus or Panormitan said coÌ„cerning the Pope The truth is M. Iewel you either had this
Pope Ihon 22. vvas reproued by Gerson and by the schoole of Paris for an Heretike Harding Of Pope Iohn 22. his errour see my Ansvvere to M. Iewels Vievv of his vntruthes before fol. 64. He was reproued for an opinion M. Iewel which he helde before he was Pope many yeres what the opinion was I haue declared before at large to whiche place I referre the reader for a ful answer But when being Pope he would haue confirmed that his wrong opinion that the soules of the iuste lacked the sight of God face to face vntil the daye of Iudgement God tooke him out of this life that al the world might know come who shal to sit in Peters chaier he shal neuer decree any Heresie to be mainteined as the Faith How be it it was not to be accoumpted heresie at that time as yet not being determined by the Church and semed to haue ben holden of certaine olde doctours of the Church as is before said The miracle of God in staying that man from confirming that errour by authentike decree in open Synode ought more to moue you if you were a man whom Gods workes could moue then his priuate erroneous opinion which hurteth no man but him selfe Iewel 132. Petrarcha saith Rome is a sanctuarie of al heresies Harding I neither beleue you nor him I am sure that men of greater authoritie then euer that ryming Poet was of hath said the contrarie But it may be right wel that your sclaunderous penne belieth Petrarcha Ambrosius in Epist ad papam Siricium Cyprian Lib. 1. Epist 3. In Math. cap. 16. Once you name not where he saith it But what so euer Petracha saie S. Ambrose whom we more regarde said that the Church of Rome kepeth alwaies the Apostolike beleefe whole and vndiminished And S. Cyprian saith that infidelitie can not haue accesse vnto the Romaines Iewel Lyra saith that many Popes haue fallen into heresies Harding He saith many as wel princes as chiefe priestes haue falleÌ„ from the faith but not that many haue decreed heresies as to be followed and embraced of others But how truly he saith that many haue fallen from the faith let him answer to it For I find not those many nor yet M. Iew. him selfe as diligeÌ„t as he is about it Wherin Lyra maie helpe vs for opening the text of holy Scriptures we gladly vse him as for his auctoritie specially touching antiquitie being so late a writer you know how litle weight his worde beareth in the iudgement of the learned And how is it come to passe that Nicolaus de Lyra is now so good an author with you M. Iewel who being a professed Frier in his life time followed the faith of the Romaine Church and beleued the Bishoppe of Rome to be the chiefe Bishop of Christendom and the Romaine Churche to be the head of al Churches Iewel 132. You knovv that Pope Hildebrand as he vvas charged by the Councel of Brixta vvas an aduouterer a Chuâ—che robber a periuâ—ed man a mankiller a Sorcerer and a renegate of the faith Harding I know that you lye I may saie it sauing my charitie rather then your worship For Pope Gregorie the seueÌ„th otherwise before he was Pope called Hildebrandus was a very holy man as Marianus Scotus doth witnesse who liued in the same time Marianus Srotus in Chronicis Pope HildebraÌ„dus persecuted and accused by HeÌ„rie the Emperour Marianus Scotus of Pohe Hildebrand and knew that Henrie the Emperour being enemie to Pope Hildebrand bicause the good Pope warned him of his faultes did procure a false conuenticle at Brixia and caused false accusations there to be laid in against him as he did the like also in Rome it selfe whence the Pope was constrained to flee Videns autem saith Marianus Scotus Henricus papam aufugisse congregatis 30. Episcopis fautoribuss suis in ipsa Romanae vrbis obsidione iussit haberisynoduÌ„ in qua Gregorius papafalsis inauditis criminationibus à fautoribus Henrici fictè compositis absens accusatur Denique dicebant cum prophanum scelestum amatorem discordiae virum sanguinuÌ„ sedem Apostolicam vsurpare per necromantiam Conspirantes ergo qui coÌ„uenerunt in vnum aduersus DominuÌ„ aduersus Vicarium eius Papam Gregorium daÌ„nauerunt eum But Henrie seing that the Pope was fled assembling together 30. Bishops who fauoured his part commaunded a synode to be kept euen as he was at the fiege of the citie of Rome in which Synode Gregorie the Pope being absent is accused of false crimes and such as were neuer heard of the which Henries fautours had purposely forged To be shorte they said he was a prophane man a wicked man a louer of discorde a bloudy man and that he had vsurped the See Apostolike by Necromancie They therefore who had thus assembled them selues together conspiring against our Lorde and against his Vicare Pope Gregorie condemned him If you were but a ciuil honest man M. Iewel you would not take that for a Truth which one enemie saith of an other Hildebrand acquitted by true and indiffereÌ„t historiographers It maie please you to read those Historiographers which wrote without partialitie as Marianus Scotus Platina Lambertus SchafnaburgeÌ„sis and Nauclerus with such like By perusing them you shal finde yourselfe a Lyer and Pope Hildebrand a vertuouse man and one that was zelously bent to correcte such faultes as were in the clergie at that time specially Simonie But though he had ben otherwise it hindereth not oure cause as long as he kepte the same Faith whiche he receiued of his forefathers Iewel Pag. 132. Platina calleth the Popes sometimes in scorne Pontificulos Platina in Romano 2 litle petite Popes sometimes monstra portenta monsters and vnnatural and ilshapen creatures Harding If Platina speake so of some Popes it is the more signe that he either hated the Popes or els that he spake as he thought and that he wrote not for flatterie as sometimes you saye of him I praye you what cause had Platina to flatter with them as with Hildebrand who were so long dead before he was borne And as for those with whom he liued he flattered them neuer a whit as maye appeare by the life of Pope Paulus the second Platina caÌ„not seme to haue flattered the Popes in vvritiÌ„g their liues Wel were then some Popes monsters Verely I thinke so with Platina concerning some few of their liues But euen those that were worste made no breache in the rule of the faith God so prouided alwaies that although Hel gates to wit al vices and al the power of the Deuil were bent against the Popes and the Churche of Rome yet al should not preuaile against the Rocke and true Confession of the Faith which euer hath ben and shal be in the Succession of Peters Chaire Whereupon S. Hierome doubted not to saye Hieron epist ad DamasuÌ„ Cathedrae Petri Communione consocior super illam petram aedificatam Ecclesiamscio I