spirituall Churche so on thys principle you gather a moste false assumption That the heads of this spiritual or mystical body the church of Christ are vicars parsons byshops archbyshops patriarkes and ouer them all the Pope In which assumption ye take for true grauÌ„ted sundry manyfest errors flatly of vs denied chiefly foure The first about the spirituall and mysticall body of christ Wherin ye shew great vnskill not knowing what is ment by the spiritual mystical body For in that respect as there are no ciuil princes emperours kings or quéenes so there ar no Bishops neither no not Greke nor Scythian Gentile nor Iew neither male nor female but all the elect that haue bene are or shall be either in heauen aboue or here dispersed in any parte of the earth without any respect of person are al members and Christ the only head And so M. St. your selfe also call it the kingdome of the faythfull so that if any bishop be vnfaithful he is so far from beeing a head in this misticall corporation that he is no member or any part therof And your selfe confessed before that now theÌ„ your Pope was no good maÌ„ neither therfore vnfaithful hauing not the true liuely effectual faith in Christ as they only haue that be meÌ„bers of this body wherby he is quite excluded froÌ„ it Your first error therfore is in not discerning betwéene the inuisible and visible estate of the Church Secondly taking it as after contrarie to your former sayings ye seeme to expounde it to be the visible estate of the church saying coÌ„moÌ„ly called Christes catholike church then erre ye in that ye say vicars parsons bishops archbyshops and popes be rulers and heades of it For excepting parsons taking them for pastors Bishops the scripture knoweth none of thâ—…se rulers The other titles haue come in since with deanes archâ—…eacoÌ„s abbots priors cardinals patriarches c. although I speake not against the names of theÌ„ no not of the name of Pope neither which béeing well vsed I reueriÌ„ce admit but against the Popish hierarchie proud abuse of them And therfore thirdly where ye say the Pope is ouer them all that he is so ouer all those degrées in your Churche I graunte ye but that he is so ouer those or any other degrées in the true visible Churche of Christ it is but your facing maner to take that for confessed that is chiefly denyed Fourthly that ye affirme the Pope and his Prelates gouernemente chiefly to serue for the furtheraunce and encrease of the Spirituall kyngdome of Chryst where it is euident to the contrarie what hauocke and decrease so muche as they can these Rulers make of the members of Christes Churche to maynteine infidelitie and exautorate the worde and kingdome of Christ thereby M. Stap. now presupposing that the christian Princes gouernement is only outward and for the body and coÌ„mon with the heathen and stretcheth no further and that on the other parte the Pope ouer al and his fleshly chaplens vnder him are the heades and meÌ„bers of the spiritual and mysticall body of Christ nowe he will proue and God before that this gouernement of the pope his chaplaines is far aboue the kings gouernement and that kings he subiect therto Now sayth he as the soule of man incomparably passeth the body so doth this kingdome the other and the rulers of these the rulers of the other And as the body is subiecte to the soule so is the ciuill kingdome to the spirituall His reason is thus The soule or spirite incomparably passeth the body The kings gouernement is onely for the body and the Priests gouernement onely is for the soule and spirite Ergo the Priestes gouernement incomparably passeth the Kinges As this argument is noughte so the conclusion béeing rightly vnderstoode dothe noughte infirme the Princes supreme gouernement ouer all ecclesi causes For thoughe the maior be true the minor is moste false that the kinges gouernement is onely for the body Yea though the spirituall gouernement be onely the Priestes yet the gouernement ouer spirituall matters and matters apperteyning to the soule may still for all that and dothe belong euen ouer the Priests to the Prince Neither dothe M. St. proue the coÌ„trarie or alledge ought for his minor than as we haue heard the foresaide principles of limiting the Princes gouernement to be all one with the Turkes But you might haue done well M. Stap. to haue eâ—…sed your paynes euen here and haue troubled your selfe no further to proue your matter if these your vaine presupposals be such true and vndoubted principles But as though we had alredy graunted them M. St. still goeth on To the which kingdome sayth he as well Princes as other are engrafted by baptisme and become subiects to the same by spirituall generation as we become subiectes to our princes by course and order of natiuitie which is a terrestrial generation The argument is thus As the childe that is borne by a terrestriall generation in the earthly Princes kingdome is subiect to the earthly Prince so euen the Prince being borne againe by spirituall generation is become subiect to the spirituall kingdome But the rulers of the spirituall kingdom are the pope c. Ergo the Prince is become subiect to them Thus fondly still ye reason on your principle in so much that we can say nothing agaynst you But nowe while ye thinke ye may say what ye will sodenly see how ye haue ouerturned these your mightie principles with a trippe of your owne contrarie sayings euen in the same place Furthermore say you as euery man is naturally bounde to defende mainteyne encrease adorne â–ª and amplifie his naturall countrey so is euery man bounde and much more to employ himselfe to his possibilitie towarde the mition and defence furtheranee and amplification of this spiritual kingdome and most of all the princes themselues As such which haue receyued of God more large helpe and facultie toward the same by reason of their great authoritie and temporall sworde to ioyne the same as case requireth with the spirituall sworde Thinke ye this to be true indéede M. St. may we trust you on your wordes then is religion an ende of the Princes gouernment which a little before ye not onely most vntruly denyed but buylded as ye thought iolye arguments therevpon All whiche come nowe downe of themselues with an heaue and hee your selfe pulling awaye the soundation wherevppon they were buylt And nowe ye make an other platforme contrarie to the former which is that Princes moste of all are bounde as those that haue receyued of God more large helpe and facultie towarde the same to employ them selues to their possibilities to these endes to defende mainteyne encrease adorne and amplifie not onely the ciuill peace and prosperitie but much more the spirituall kingdome And ioyne the temporall sworde with the spirituall sworde as the case requireth Upon this as a better platforme than the
And herein hath the Quéenes highnes followed as ye say both her Fathers and Brothers faith also But ye wring al to that faith wherein he was before beguiled as though she should follow him in that he was deceiued not wherein he founde out forsoke the deceyuers that you with your painted wordes might likewise deceyue her Highnes now as they deceâ—…ued her Maiest father then But sée how God turned their deceyt agaynst them selues That where your Pope to flatter K. Henrie withall ascribed to him this title as it were the prophecie of another Caiphas Defender of the faith the King espying the falshood of the Pope became the very defender of the true faith in déede abolishing the Pope the very impugner peruerâ—…er therof and so as you say truer than ye wist M. Stap. atchieued to him and his and transported as by hereditarie succession the worthy title and stile yet remaining in her Highnesse of the defendour of the faith Neither as you faintly say this title onely remayneth in her Highnes but the thing that the title doth entende her highnesse is in very déede not in a â—…aked name the defender thereof And hath defended her subiects not from foreyne power of straungers onely brought in by the Papistes and from all bodily iniurie and oppression of Popish firebrandes or any other tirannie but defendeth euen our faith from all errours heresies superstitions and Idolatries And this it is for a Prince to be a defender of the faith in déede which argueth a plaine supremacie Now after M. Stapl. hath thus flattred and on his knees humbled him selfe to obtayne a placard of their disobedience vp he starteth once againe and geueth another fling at vs to reuerse this crime of disobedience on vs thinking so to excuse this disobedience of the Papistes thereby And first he setteth on those whome he calleth round cap Ministers howbeit if he remembred that within this hundreth yeres and vpward the popish priestes themselues did weare round cappes he would not be so hastie to giue that nick name He asketh who are those that haue preached with a chaine of golde about their neckes in steade of a tippet Assoyle your question your selfe M. Stapl. I know no such protestant What slaunderous reporte you haue heard of any singuler person I know not no such order is alowed Although it be common among your popish Cardinals Bishops Abbottes Deanes Canons and other beyonde the Seas so to ruffle as ye speake not onely with a chayne of golde but with hatte and feather cappe and agglets rapier and cloke hawke and houndes ruffians fooles wayting on them and oftentimes in complete harneys on a great courser or on a palfrey with a courtisane behinde them thus go the chiefest of your fleshly spiritualtie belike they learned it of that royster Pope Iohn 13. howbeit no Pope doeth amende this disorder Upbrayd not therefore such petit and perticular things to vs which is so great and so common a fault with you But Master Stapleton will go more certainely to worke and charge the Protestantes ex scripto wyth their owne writings VVho are those I pray you sayth he that write sint sanè ipsi Magictratuâ—… membra paries ciues ecclesiâ—…dei imo vt ex toto corde sint omnes precari decet Flagrent quoque ipsi zelo pietatis sed non sint capita Ecclesiâ—… quia ipsis non competit iste 〈◊〉 Let the Magistrates also be members and partes and citizens of the Church of God yea and that they maye bee so it behoueth vs all wyth all our heart to praye Let them bee feruent in the godly zeale of Religion but they may not be heades of the Churche in no case for thys supremacie doth not appertaine to them These are no Papists I trow M. Horne but your owne dere brethren of Magdeburge in their new storie ecclesiasticall by the which they would haue all the worlde directed Yea in that storie wherof one percell Illiricus and his fellowes haue dedicated to the Queenes maiestie that beare the worlde in hande they are the true and zelous schollers of Luther Thus triumpheth M. Stapleton against the wryters of the storie of Magdeburge The effect of his argument is this These wryters do say that Princes may not be heades of the Church Ergâ—… no prince ouer all Ecclesiasticall persons causes in his owne dominions may be supreme gouernour Howe euill this argument followeth is easie to perceyue and the better in behâ—…lding howe impudently master Stapleton wresteth these wryters But he forceth not thereof bicause they be his aduersaries For that which they write not simplie agaynst the supremacie of princes in Ecclesiasticall causes but agaynst suche supremacie of princes as the Pope vsurped that wresteth he as spoken agaynst such supreme gouernment as the Quéenes maiestie claymeth and vseth The writers hereof hauing set forth two â—…nsamples of that age the one of a godly princes gouernmet by Constantinus Pogonotus the other of a wicked tyrant by â—…eraclius to declare what kinde of supremacie they disalow Thâ—…y she we that this is the scope of the matter iste est scopuâ—…res ê™ magistratibuâ—… politicis non sit licitum cudere formaâ—… religionuÌ„ in perniciem veritatis ita vel coÌ„cilietur veritaâ—… meÌ„daâ—…ium vel vtraque simul sopiant id quod tandem â—…um habet exitum vt regnent errores veritas crucifigatur sepeliatur This is the â—…cope of the matter that it is not lawfull for politike magistrates to coyne formes of religion to the destruction of the truth so that thereby truth and falsehoode should be reconciled togither or both of them togither quayled VVhich at the length commeth to this ende that errors raigne the truth is crucified buried And so followeth the sentence that M. St. citeth let the magistrates also be mebers c. but let them not be heades of the Church Whereby appeareth plainly what maner of heades they meane And this they do not once nor twise setting forth the doings of the wicked â—…yrant Heraclius for ensample that was altogither led by affection and not indifferent to heare â—…ither party nor called in counsell lerned and faithfull men nor called any synode to trie the matter nor serched the truth diligently but being puffed vppe with pride and deuising oâ—…ely with a flattring Monke that after set vp the false fayth of Mahomet determineth in a corner of a moste weightie controuersie and afterwardes will haue the matter neuer called into question This Emperour they call Architectum religionis and demaund what man well in his wittes woulde alowe such attempts processe and executions concluding it is not lawfull form as religionum conflare c. To make newe formes of religions and obtrude them to the Church without all kind of godly honest modest and comely gainsaying refuting therof All this and much more say they of that kinde of supreme gouernement in
all their actions of their offices or vocations Ye conclude not a like M. Stapl. but subtilly and falsely ye alter the state of the conclusion if ye made your argument aright ye should make it thus as the Prince intermedleth not in the seuerall actions of his temporall subiects offices or vocations so he intermedleth not in the seuerall actions of his Ecclesiasticall subiectes offices or vocations This is the right illation of the sâ—…militude and thus it maketh nothing against vs Which you espying in the place of intermedling thrust in gouerning concluding â—…alsely bicause he is no intermedler in the one that therefore he is no gouernour of the other But the â—…urder ye wade in this similitude the more ye labour against the streame For as although the Prince intermedle not with the Fathers the Masters the Schoolemasters the Pilotes seuerall actions in their offices or vocations yet he ought to ouersée that euery one of these and all other his subiects do their owne proper actions belonging to their vocations and offices dutifully yea not onely to make lawes for them all as subiectes but also for their seuerall estates and degrées besides not for him selfe to exercise but for them to worke in their vocations so the Prince beyng likewise gouernour of Ecclesiasticall persons so well as of any other aforesaide although he intermedle not with the seuerall actions of their vocations yet ought he to ouersée them that euery Ecclesiasticall estate do their proper actions dutifully and also to make Lawes and Orders not for him selfe but for them in their degrées and vocations to exercise and obserue the same And thus your similitude euery way maketh quite against you M. Stapl. how be it you will proue it better ye say For the better vnderstanding whereof it is to be knowne that before the comming of Christe Kings were there many but Christian Kings none Many coÌ„mon wealths were there but no Christian common welth nor yet godly coÌ„mon welth properly to speake sauing among the Iewes but cluill and politike The ende and finall respect of the which ciuill common wealth was and is vnder the regiment of some one or moe persons to whome the multitude committed them selfe to be ordered and ruled by to preserue themselues from all inwarde and outwarde iniuries oppressions and enemies and furder to prouide not onely for their safetie and quietnes but for their wealth and abundance and prosperous maintenance also To this ende tendeth and reacheth and no furder the ciuill gouernment And to the preseruation tuition and furderance of this ende chiefly serueth the Prince as the principall and most honorable person of the whole estate whiche thing is common as well to the Heathenishe as to the Christian gouernment Is this all that ye will aforde christian Princes M. Stap. what a heathenish doctrine is this to make Christen princes and Heathen princes gouernment all one What if Christen princes as they haue right good cause beginne to startle at this that ye make their estate no better before God than is the great Turkes And what if one should answere that ye not onely sclaundered reprochfully all the estates of Christendome nowe liuing or that shal be or haue bene since Christes comming but also wickedly deface all the godly Kings and rulers before Christes comming Melchisedeck Dauid Salomon c. beléeuing in Christ to come as Christen Princes now beare the title of Christ already come And yet dare you saie that before the comming of Christ Kinges were there many but Christian kinges none Doâ—… ye dallie on the tytle and name of Christian or meane ye the tytle and effecte of christianitie if ye meane so as ye must néedes meane if ye meane any thing materiall to the purpose ye are very iniurious not onely to those Kings but to their subiects yea to their common weale also And yet ye say further their common wealth was but ciuill and politike and vvente no further than outwarde peace tranquillitie welthe and prosperous maynteinance which is the onely ende of their gouernement and that it reacheth not any iote further What if one should bidde you looke further in the scripture and so ye should finde it stretche somewhat further than to be common with the great Turkes gouernement What if a man should presse you with your owne wordes afterwarde that yet catche it more than one inche further for assisting of the Churche vvith the temporall svvorde which the great Turke the great Chan the Persian Sophie doth not but drawe their swordes agaynst it What if a man should referre this among your contradictions What if he should ioyne another withall that where yet ye confesse the Iewes common vvealth was godly before Christes comming and other common wealthes were not godly and yet the ciuill gouernement of Christian princes reacheth no further than the ciuill gouernement of heathen princes and one finall ende is common to bothe and so eyther the Heathens common vveales were godly also or else the Iewes were vngodly too yea what if the heathens coÌ„mon vveale and heathen Princes fell out to be in better estate of the twayne if only quietnesse vvealth abundance and prosperitie were the onely and finall ende of bothe if ye were well vrged in all these thinges thinke ye M. Stap. these your principles would be able to defende you yea lastly if one woulde denie these your Heathen and Turkishe maximies bring ye any thing to proue them than your owne bare saying that it is to be knovvne But no true Christian knovveth it M Stap. nor will euer acknowledge this which with suche bolde impudencie ye grounde vppon that christian Princes gouernement reacheth no further than ciuill and outvvarde safetie vvealth abundaunce and prosperitie and is common asvvell to heathen as to Christian princes Neuerthelesse M. Stap. taking it for a rolled case and out of question rolleth vp the matter as graunted And as he hath thus determined the boundes of Christian Princes gouernement so as it were by commission from his holy father he descrybeth the Popes kingdome But ouer and besides sayth he yea and aboue this is there an other gouernment instituted and ordeyned by Christ in a spirituall and a mysticall body of such as he graciously calleth to be of his kingdome â–ª which is the kingdome of the faythfull and so consequently of heauen wherevnto christian fayth dothe conduct vs In whiche spirituall body commonly called Christes catholike Church there are other heades and rulers than ciuill Princes as Vicars Parsons Byshops Archbyshops Patriarkes and ouer them al the Pope VVhose gouernement chiefly serueth for the furtherance and encrease of this spirituall kingdome as the ciuill Princes doe for the temporall That there is another mysticall body the kingdome of the faythful directed by an other spiritual gouernement this is a true principle M. Stap. and truer than you wéene or would haue it But as you are deceiued and would deceiue others with the title of that
¶ The Supremacie of Christian Princes ouer all persons throughout their dominions in all causes so wel Ecclesiastical as temporall both against the Counterblast of Thomas Stapleton replying on the Reuerend father in Christe Robert Bishop of VVinchester and also Against Nicolas Sanders his Uisible Monarchie of the Romaine Church touching this controuersie of the Princes Supremacie Ansvvered by Iohn Bridges The Princes charge in his institution to ouersee the direction of Gods lawe DEVTER 17. After he shall be settled in the throne of his kingdom he shal write out for himself in a volume the copie of this Law taking the same of the Priests of the Leuitical tribe and he shal haue it with him reade it al the days of his life that he may learn to fear the Lord his God and keepe the wordes and ceremonies of him which are written in this law c. ¶ PRINTED AT LONDON by Henrie Bynneman for Humfrey Toye 1573. · HONI · SOIT · QVI · MAL · Y · PENSE · E. R ¶ To the moste high and moste excellent Princesse Elizabeth by the grace of God Queene of Englande France and Ireland defender of the Faith of Christ and in earth next vnder God of the Church of England and Ireland in all Ecclesiastical and temporall causes the supreme Head Gouernor ALbeit most Gracious Soueraigne I might be vvoorthily noted of presumption in dedicating these my trauailes to your Maiestie as vvel for the basenesse of my skill calling as for the vnreuerent demeanour of the aduersaries that here I ansvvere vnvvorthie vvhom your Highnesse should deigne to loke vpon yet bothe bicause the matter entreateth moste of a Princes estate and that vpon the chiefest point therof belonging in general to al Christian Princes but in especiall to your Maiestie against vvhom they chiefly direct their malice and in maintenaunce vvhereof your Maiestie direct your gouernement and herein haue giuen a mirror to al christian Princes to folovv and be partakers in their common vveales of the lyke blessings wherwith God hath beautified your Highnesse and established youre authoritie I thought it therfore not vnfit setting my self and them aside with all such by matters as incidently fal out in disputation betvvixt the Bishop and master Feckenham of me these my aduersaries â–ª to conâ—…ecrate this argumente of Supremacie to youre moste excellent Maiestie as to vvhom chiefly in your dominions next vnder Christ it dothe pertaine VVhich your Highnesse so nobly maintaines by practise of godlie gouernment hovve euer we by the vvord and argument do defend it There is no controuersie at this day betvvixt vs and the enimies of the gospel more impughed thaÌ„ this one of the Supremacie nor more bookes compiled more libels scattered more vaunts made of truth on their partie more sclaunders deuised of oure doctrine and your Maiesties Title more secrete conspiracies and open treasons against your Royal person and state of the Realme than our aduersaries make only for this Supremacie Shall Sathan then vse al this double diligence in promoting the pride tyrannie of his Antichrist the man of sinne the foreigne vsurper of all Christian kingdoms and shall the children of god be negligent in defence of the kingdom of Christ of the Lordes anoynted of the dutifull office and lavvfull authoritie of their naturall Soueraigne â–ª Other meanes I graunt may be had to suppresse their furious dealing And God bee blessed therefore that hath furnished your Maiestie vvith povver couÌ„sell authoritie lavv vvisedome learning vertue courage and al other Princely habilities â–ª suffiâ—…iet to maintein your Highnesse Title protect that portion of Christes Church vvhich he hath committed to your most Gracious gouernment in peace and truth prosperously 〈◊〉 your enemies VVherein as your Maiestie hath euer most zâ—…lously sought and set forth the glorie of god â—…e hath so glorified you again as he hath promised 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 glorificabo that your highnesse may say as king Dauid sayd â–ª he hath deliuered you out of your enimies hands and defeated all their purposes he hath established you a kingdom here on earth in peace and righteousnesse and hath prepared in heauen a Kingdom for you in glorie and eternitie Novv although this be so cleeâ—…e that euen the enimies themselues coÌ„fesse God vvorks vvith you God fights for you God hath takeÌ„ your hart into his handes that haue taken his quarel into yours yet sith the 〈◊〉 do mutteâ—… sclander your Highnesse to take suche kind of GouernmeÌ„t on you as vvere not coÌ„petent as the Pope had vvont to do your Highnes is furthest from if this your claime be not proued to be grouÌ„dedon Gods vvord if those enuious be not coÌ„â—…inced by euident argumeÌ„ts of the seripture al the foresaid prosperitie is couÌ„ted but earthly blessings and such as other vvorldly Princes haue All the due authoritie is 〈◊〉 but extorted violence neither is the mouth of the adoersarie stopped neyther is the mind of the subiect satisfied And therfore vvhen al is don â–ª there is no better meanâ—… to may 〈◊〉 this Title than euen by learning 〈◊〉 for to me it to the vttermost and to fight vvitâ—… the vveapon of Gods vvord for it vvhicheâ—…s sharpeâ—… to vvoâ—…nde the aduersaries heart and conscience than any tvvo edged svvord But some vvil say this is sufficiently done by otherâ—… learned labours vvhen both in the dayes of your Maiesties Father of most renoumed memorie euen the best learned of our aduersaries did not only confesse it but vvrote so effectually in defence therof that shamefully aftervvard reuolting their guiltie conscieÌ„cebore vvitnesse against themselues nor they coulde euer ansvvere their ovvne vvritings And also after that in the godlie gouernment of youre Highnesse blessed Brother many other more excellent fathers in vvriting did confirme it And novv lastly in this your Maiesties happie Reigne diuers famous and lerned men to the further confirming of the godlie and confounding the enimie therein haue vvritten vppon this argument Yet sith oure aduersaries haue neuer doone thervvith but sette on a freshe lyke to him that vvhen in vvrastling he was euer cast of pride and vainglorie vvoulde neuer acknovvledge that he had any fall I thought good to make euident to all your Maiesties subiects euen to the enimies themselues the places vvhere they shamefully fel and lie stil in their errour rather than to vvrastle vvith such vvarblers And yet if they start vp again to trie a further pluck vvith them and by the strength of Gods inuincible truth so to ouerthrovv them that as fast as they boast cauill and sclaunder the truth of our cause and the goodnesse of your Maiesties quarell shall shevve it selfe the cleerer although the simplier handled A number of other vvhom I knovve coulde haue done it farre better vvho may also at their discretions further trauaile in it And in deede vvhere the most of this vvas done a good vvhile sith it vvas layde aside thus long expecting if any other vvould attempte it
now Luther can take no place amongst vs he obiecteth another vnto vs one Andreas Modrenius And yet his saying also maketh God wote ful little for the Papists herein Who saith there ought to be some one to be taken for the chiefe and supreme head in the whole Church in all causes ecclesiasticall What conclude ye M. St. herevpon Ergo it must be your Pope or no christian prince And here as though all these were not yet sufficient testimonies ye bring in Caluin But since ye doe it but to fill vp your booke with that common allegation of your side which being also not omitted of M. FeckeÌ„ham is to be referred to be propounded and answered vnto in his proper place I therefore remit you thither Onely to that ye say he so spitefully handled King Henrie the eyght as hee neuer handled the Pope more spitefully I aunswere this is but your spitefull lie to deface the Protestantes Else why doe ye not proue the same And as for your Pope it is euident also he neuer handled him spitefully but onely reproued his vyces and errours by the worde of god But howe spitefullie your Pope and popishe Prelates so farre as they coulde handeled him and howe spitefully they handle all Protestantes that they maye once sette their spitefull spirituall fingers vppon all the worlde doeth sée And yet the silie Protestantes muste beare all the blame it is not ynoughe for them to beare the iniuryes This lesson ye learned of the Diuell of Dowgate to bite and whine also or rather ye doe as Esops Woolfe did chalenge the poore Lambe for troubling his water and to misuse him spitefully but thys mercifull Woolfe deuoured this spitefull Lambe He vrgeth vs farther in great outcryes with a sentence of one Anthonie Gilbie our own Countriman The summe of his argument is this Anthonie Gilbie an Englishe man speaketh verie vnreuerently and vnreligiously of King Henrie the eight Ergo the Protestantes now in England whatsoeuer they pretende and dissemble in wordes in heart mislike the Quéenes maiesties gouernment How doth this follow M. St and yet ye wrest Anthonie Gilbies sentence also He speaketh not of this supremacie neyther but in plaine wordes of such a supremacie in England as the Pope chalengeth all ouer Christendome Though therefore he be greatly to be blamed for his vnreuerent speach and for his vnaduised mistaking of hys Princes lawfull authoritie yet is he not to be belyed as though he spoke of all kinde of supremacie in all princes simplie It is a shame as they say M. St. euen to belie the Diuell But sée how the matter falleth out Ye haue brought Anthonie Gilbyes sentence agaynst vs and the Quéenes maiesties authoritie Haue ye not wel holpeÌ„ your self if this sentence also make flat agaynst your pope For if as he sayth therin truely Christ ought onely to be the head of the church the placing of any other displaceth him then is not the pope the head also but the placing of him displaceth christ But the Pope chalengeth to be the heade of the Churche also which our prince doth not Ergo not our prince but your Pope displaceth christ And thus thinking to beate vs ye still make a rodde for your owne Popes tale And here sodenly calling to mind how far he hath straied in forraging out these sentences he returneth a little to the Bishop setting on him for calling the Pope the Papists god in earth the archeheretike of Rome and that M. Fec would haue him reigne in the Queenes place Besturring himselfe with a heape of arguments to defende his Pope Besides his scoffes raylings and other rhetoricall floures quoted in his common places But first for his Pope sayth he VVe make no God of the Pope and sometimes perhaps no good man neyther In déede M. Stap. ye should haue more than both your handes full to make your Pope sometimes a good man â–ª ye néede not put perhaps to the matter It would pose him selfe and all the Diuels in hell and that oftentymes to worke such a miracle on him as that man of sinne that childe of perdition and aduersarie of God to become a good man. But yet I say beware howe ye speake such buggishe words of him as not to be a good man. Whose wil is law whose law is all power in heauen in earth in hell Nowe can this be an ill man Beware least this come to his eares M. Stap. and withall that ye make him not a God in earth Are not you of theyr religion that beléeue and confesse this principle 〈◊〉 deus noster Papa Our Lorde God the Pope Yea and as some say he is Plusque deuâ—… If ye be beware his thunderbolt If ye be not whie defende ye him and his errors against the truth of God whie forsake you your most vertuous Prince to follow a straunger and that an yll man but you answere And yet we reuerence him for his office and authoritie that Christ so amply and honourably gaue him for preseruation of vnitie and quietnesse in his Church That ye reuerence him in déede and that is more adore him to is manifest But the patent of that his office and authoritie that ye crake Christe so amplie and so honorably gaue your Pope ye shewe none nor where nor how nor when he gaue it Only ye tell vs of the endes wherefore he gaue it For the preseruation of vnitie and quietnes in his Church But if these were the endes M. St. he hath forfeited his patent long ago That not onely disagreeth from the expresse wordes and commauÌ„dement of Christ but swerueth one Pope from another And how chance he setteth his own scholemeÌ„ his Canonists at no better vnitie his Thomists and his Scotistes his sects of Religions at no better quietnes than a tâ—…ade a snake togither how chance he agreeth no better with his Bishops his own colledge of cardinals How chance he falleth out so often with Emperours and kings setteth Princes their subiectes by the eares togither why fighteth he so fast with both his swordes like king Arthures dubble sworded knight why had he rather at this day that al christendome were in a broyle so much blâ—…ud were cruelly shedde than he would relent one inche of his honour one penie of his filthie gaine one iâ—…te of his errors Idolatries false dectrines that eueÌ„ are coÌ„fessed of his own secte giue place to the worde of God is this his preseruing of vnitie and quietnes in the Church of Christ or had he any such patent giuen him hath he not lost and lost it againe and will ye still reuerence and adore him for it Secondly where the Bishop calleth your Pope the arch-heretike of Rome Your wisedome say you with like truth also appeareth in that ye call the Pope the Archeheretike of Rome naming no man and so your wordes so liberally waÌ„tonly cast out do as well comprehende
lesse affectioned than Thomas telling vs that Thomas sayeth plainly that we are obliged and bounde vpon paine of euerlasting damnation to beleeue that the Pope is the only supreme head of the whole Church And yet when he hath all done Thom. plainly sayth not so it is but our Thomas his plaine lye And though Thomas him selfe in that he sayde made also a plaine lye as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 affectioned to the Pope yet shoulde you haue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wordes more truely master Stapleton if ye 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pressed the Bishop with his authoritie But for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thomas his partialitie woulde soone be 〈◊〉 â—…o 〈◊〉 more weight thereto ye say Saint Thomas proueth his assertion by Cyrill and Mâ—…ximus two notable and auncient wryters among the Gâ—…ans VVherefore it followeth that neyther master Feckenham nor master Horne nor any other Christian man can knowe the contrarie beeing such an euident and daungerous falsehood as importeth eternall damnation Sée howe one Thomas here were it but for name-sake woulde still helpe another Thomas he careth not by what meanes hooke or crooke both belying Thomas and these notable fathers also Where sayd Thomas your wordes aboue alleaged Where had he them out of Cyrill and Maximus where haue Cyrill and Maximus that assertion Shew it and then you cleare your selfe In deede Thomas being a late affectioned writer herein alleageth proufes out of both Cyrill Max. but they proue no such assertion Cyrill hath no such wordes in his booke of Thesaurus and that epistle of Maximus is not extant for ought that I can learne and yet Thomas doth but wrest both their sayings to proue his title that it is of necessitie of saluatioÌ„ to be vnder the B. of Rome The sentence that he fathereth out of Cyril to proue his saying and yet notwithstanding proueth it not is this Itaque fratres c. Therefore brethren if wee followe Christ let vs as his sheepe heare his voyce abyding in the Churche of Peter and let vs not be puft vp with the winde of pryde least peraduenture the winding serpent cast vs out for conteÌ„tion as long since it cast Eue out of paradise Can you or Thomas or any other coÌ„clude your assertion or anything for your Pope on this saying ye wil vrge these wordes the Church of Peter Thinke ye he ment the church to be S. Peters patrimonie as ye terme it or the Church of S. Peters dominion if ye so thinke S. Peter hym self gaynsayth it saying that he is him self but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 consenior a fellowe Elder or Priest and witnesse of Christes passions and not the Lord but Christ the Lorde of his Church and him selfe with other not to be rulers and princes among the clergy but they be only pastors formes of the flocke Christ alone being the Prince of the Pastors So that if you meane hereby S. Peter to be the owner and Lorde of the Church as your Pope at this day taketh on him to be this sentence maketh nothing for him but quite agaynst him For neither doth the Pope followe the humilitie of Christ nor heare his voyce as Cirill willeth neither followeth he Peter of whome he craketh but is puft vp with the winde of pride Whiche Cirill forbiddeth and therfore is cast out with the winding serpent But what Cirill meaneth by the church of Peter euen the other sentence following may declare of Maximus Coadunatam fundatam super Petram confessionis Petri dicimus vniuersalem ecclesiaâ—… sicundum definitionem saluatoris in qua necessario salutis animarum nostraruÌ„ est remanere ei obedire suam seruantes fidem confessionem VVe call that the vniuersall Church according to the definition of our Sauiour the which is vnited togither and founded vpon the Rocke of Peters confession in the which it is necessarie to remayne for the saluation of our soules and to obey it keeping the fayth and confession thereof This sentence well expoundeth the other The Church of S. Peter that is to say the Church vnited and founded vpon the rocke of Peters confession not of Peters rule and patrimonie but of his confession which Rocke is onely Christe the corner stone on whome onely the Churche is founded and in whome as liuely stories of the buylding we are vnited To this Churche in déede muste we be obedient and remayne in it kéeping the fayth and confession thereof But what doth this proue for the obedience to the Pope his Church dothe it not rather detect his church not to be the vniuersal Church wherof Maximus speaketh that Christ hath defined howsoeuer the Papistes crake of the vniuersall church syth it is not vnited togither on the rocke but on the sands of mens traditions and founded as you say vpon Peter not as Christ sayd vpon the Rocke â–ª Since it kéepeth not this faith confession nor remaineth in it nor obeyeth it it is not Christes true vniuersall Church neither ought we to remayne in it or obey it But as the Angell calleth vs exite de illa populus mens c. Come out of hir my people and be not partakers of hir offences least ye taste also of hir plagues And thus by Maximus saying howsoeuer Thomas as an affectionate late writer doth wrest the same to the obedience of the Pope and his Churche when we examine Christes true definition and Peters confession we finde that we are obliged and bounde to renounce the Pope and his Churche and that vpon payne of euerlasting damnation But nowe M. Stapl. let vs also sée your owne proper argumentes oute of Thomas Thomas sayth the Pope is the only supreme head of the whole Church wherin he quite excludeth Christ Ergo we are obliged and bound to beleeue the same vpon payne of euerlasting damnation Thomas sayth we are obliged and bounde to beléeue the Popes supremacie vpon payne of damnation Ergo the B. is to be charged with malicious and wilfull ignoraunce Thomas sayth we are obliged and bounde to beleeue the Popes supremacie vpon payne of damnation Ergo M. Feckenham is fully and effectually discharged of malicious and wilfull ignorance Thomas his distinction of ignoraunce is alledged of the Byshop Ergo the Byshop is bounde to allowe his authoritie simply in all matters or in this of the Byshop of Romes supremacie Thomas cyteth Cirill and Maximus to proue his assertion Ergo â–ª the matter is so playne that the Byshop nor any other can know the contrarie These writers say so or rather as is shewed are wrested to say that they say not Ergo it is suche an euidente and dangerous falshood as importeth eternall damnation These are the wise and worshipfull conclusions to repeate your owne termes that ye gather on the authoritie of Thomas bicause the byshop cited him in the sayde diuision of ignoraunce wherefore ye say he shall vvinne small vvorship by alleaging of S. Thomas Howbeit you to win much worship and great honor by alleaging him haue aduentured
to enriche the Popes coafers although he claymed it not by any title of Supremacie but as the keper of the Churches hutche And since by continuance grew to an ordinarie custome as a fée vnto him And afterwarde his vsurpation here being remoued this was also thought good to be better and more profitably bestowed on our owne naturall liege and true supreme gouernour within our owne realme than on a foreyne vsurper to mainteyne his whores and pompe and to empouerish the realme and beat vs with our owne goods And had it bene otherwise disposed or remitted the Prince not withstanding had bene full supreme gouernour But is it so haynouse a matter now for a Prince to receyue tenths or first fruites did not I pray you euen by your Popes dispeÌ„sations and bulles Princes receyue them diuerse times before and if they may receyue them with his bulles why may they not receyue them being giuen by order of the owners euen without his bulles also Now sith ye can make no good argument on the ordinarie paying of tenthes or first fruites to proue your Popes nor to improue the Princes supremacie thinke ye it a good reason to argue from an extraordinarie facte on some occasion or consideration to subuerte an ordinarie authoritie You say they paide both in one yere to King Henrie Were ye not disposed to wrangle and misconster euery facte odiously ye woulde not vrge your reason thus M. Stapleton For admitte ought were amisse therein by ouersight or euer the inconuenience were espied and amended as after ye graunt it was which was eueÌ„ the next yéere following what is this to the impayring of his supreme authoritie if their receyuing of the tenthes and first fruites be allowable as euen your Popes haue allowed the same What caÌ„ye make of the double receipt sauing that he receiued more than he should that yeare of dutie haue receyued if ye make the worst of it And yet thereby it followeth that he might haue receyued them as he afterwarde did and as the Prince now receyueth them But haue ye neuer redde of the Popes dubbling trebling quadrupling and extreme excessiue encreasing of payments vpoÌ„ payments not one yere but euery yere with continuall and vnsatiable polling of the clergie in times past But this coulde ye not remember Your remembraunce serues ye like the hornes of a snayle ye can stretche it out and pull it in as it pleaseth you But the Chronicles that ye pretende to haue read and quote so fast cry out of the Popes vnsatiable dropsie and infinite practises to get golde and siluer And where findes he suche priestly supremacie in all the olde Testament The argument wherewith you confirme your marke agaynst the Princes receiuing therof is yet more fonde and faultie Ioseph would not suffer the heathen Priests to pay either tithes or fines Ergo The Christian Clergie muste not suffer themselues to paye tenthes or firste fruites to their Christian Princes This argument is more Heathenish than christianlike M. Stapl. or student like either but good inoughe for the popish Clergie to grounde them selues vppon Thinke ye the doings of Ioseph in dealing with those heathen Idolaters to be a fit rule to leâ—…el Christian Princes duties towardes their Priests and people or do ye thinke that Ioseph did giue this immunitie to the Priestes more than to the people to mainteyne those Priestes the better bicause they were Priests hauing onely the bare name of Priests as ye say well therein and so being false Priestes and setters out of Idolatrie that they should haue more immunities liberties and wealth than others had you will make Ioseph belike a very holy Patriarke But perchance ye haue espied a greater affinitie betwene those Egiptian Priests and your romish Priestes than euery body was aware of And therefore ye reason substantially from their prerogatiues vnto yours Is it bicause ye fetche your shauen crownes from them or at least that they had shorne heads as you haue as witnesseth Alexander ab AlexaÌ„dro Apud Aegiptios qui sacra ministraÌ„t sacerdotes capite rasi sunt The priests among the Egiptians that minister the holy sacrifices are shauen on the head Or is it bicause the most of your masking trinkets came from thence or is it bicause of your Egiptiacall darkenesse and ignorance that ye kept all people in or is it bicause all your religion lay in mysticall figures and as they dispising ordinary letters had their Hierogliphicall mysteries and signes wherby they set foorth their meaninges so you dispising Gods worde and all good letters your whole religion consisteth in mysteries signes and gestures or is it bicause the Egiptian priests Idolatrie and the Popishe priests Idolatrie is the grossest of all others and the most bestiall or is it bicause as Rauistus Textor telleth of the likenesse betwéen your religious Heremites Anachorâ—… Friers and their priestes called Sarabaytae of whom he sayth Habitabant in foraminibus petrarum induti porcorâ—…m boum pellibus cincti funsbus discalciati sanguine cruentati cauerniâ—… demum exeuntes paâ—…pertatem abstmentiam predicabant barbam spectante populo sibi perâ—…ellebant nummisque tali astu commeâ—…to adeptis remeabant in suas speluncas in summa laetitia furtim dapibus epulabantur They dwelled in the holes of rockes like your ankers and recluses clad with hogges skins and oxe hides like your heremites girte with cordes and barefoote like your friers besprent with bloud lyke your Spanish whippers comming abrode out of their dens they preached pouertie and abstinence like your limitors they pulled away their beards in the sight of the people like your popish shauelings and by this craft and deuise getting money they returned to their dens and in great mirthe they priuily made good cheere So like the one almost in euery iote is to the other Or is it bicause your Ladies chaplaines maiden priests were so like the single priests of Isis Or is it bicause your Nunnes were so like their women priests or is it for that your priests haue claymed such authoritie aboue their princes to take froÌ„ them their estates and realmes yea and their liues at their pleasures as dyd the Ethiopian priests at Merâ—…e of whome sayth Diodorus Siculus Adeò superstitione impleuerunt hominuÌ„ animos vt noÌ„nunquam misso nuncio necem regâ—… Aethiopsâ—… demandareÌ„t nullo detractaâ—…te aâ—…t mandatuÌ„ iâ—…ssionemue abneganâ—…e Superstition did so muche fill the mindes of men that the priests sending a messenger would oftentimes commaund the king of Ethiopia to be killed and nobody forslacked his coÌ„maundement nor refused his bidding Euen a right popish supremacie M. St. And thus they handled at their commaundement christian Princes and the superstitions people were so bewitched that none durst foresâ—…acke or refuse euen agaynst their naturall Princes to satisfie the tyrannie and commaundement of the Pope A great many causes more mighte be suspected why ye pretende so muche for your
in heauen things that are in earth things visible things inuisible whether they be Maiestie or Lordship either rule or power al things are created by him and in him be is before all things and in him all things haue their being and he is the head of the bodie that is to wit of the congregation he is the beginning and first begotten that in all thinges he might haue the preheminence for it pleased the father that in him all fulnesse should dwell and by him to reconcile all things to him selfe and to set at peace by him through the bloud of his Crosse both things in heauen and things in earth Here is no mencion at all of hir but all of him master Stapleton for whome all things were made But euen these properties of Christ this blasphemous doctour applieth to hir and sayth your Church doth so For a little before he sayth Sed hoc loco c. But in this place is to be asked whether the blessed virgin were brought forth before all creatures For of hir sayth the Church that saying Eccle. 24. Ab initio ante secula creata sum From the beginning and before the worlde was I made and againe in the Epistle of this solemnitie the Virgine is brought in saying that sentence Prou. 8. The Lord hath possessed me from the beginning of his wayes before he made any thing euen from the beginning from euerlasting I was ordeyned and from of olde before the earth was made as yet the depthes were not and I was alreadie begotten as yet the fountaynes flowed not with water nor as yet the mountaynes in their great compasse were setled before all the hilles was I begotten VVhich wordes doe seeme so to sounde that she was brought forth before the bringing forth of any other thing Who is he that knoweth not that these wordes are spoken of the eternall sonne of God begotten before all ages and is euen one wyth that S. Iohn sayth In the beginning was the worde and yet bicause it is spoken in the feminine gender vnder the name of the eternall wisedome of God he most ignoranâ—…ly and Idolatrously transferreth it to the virgin Marie Neyther he alone but he sayth your Church doth so so that all your whole Church is a blasphentous Church And thus ye ascribe the promise of the blessed seede to the blessed virgine saying not it but shee shall tread downe the serpents heade So where Dauid sayth Non est qui se abscondat à â—…alore 〈◊〉 None can hide him from his heate ye say none can hide him from hir heate Likewise where the wisedome of God sayth In the welbeloued Citie gaue he me rest in Hierusalem was my power Iacobus de Udragine applieth it to hir saying Primo pater c. First the father hath made hir mightie to helpe Eccle. 24. in Hierusalem was my power for she is made so mightie that she can help vs in life in death and after death c. Againe where Christe sayth I am exalted like a Palme tree aboute the bankes and as a rose Palme in Hierico as a fayre Oliue tree in a pleasant fielde that ascribeth he to hir saying Sunt enim quidam c. There are some Saints who when they are prayed vnto follow the information of their conscience and therefore often tymes they will not pray to God for vs bicause they haue a conscience that they are not worthie to be heard Other Saintes there are that when they are prayed vnto they follow the streightnesse of Gods righteousnesse And therefore if they be desired and knowe that this is not fitte for Gods iustice they dare not aske but the blessed Virgin neither looketh to conscience nor to iustice but to mercie As who should say let them keepe their consciences to themselues that lust and let them that will loke to Gods iustice I will alwayes hold me to mercie and for this so excellent Modestie shee sayth of hir selfe Eccle. 24. I am as a fayre Oliue in the fieldes Yea you say shée hath such excéeding and excelling mercie that not onely it passeth all the Saints but that illud quod dicitur Eccl. 18. de Domino potest dici etiaÌ„ de Domina c. That the which is spoken Eccle. 18. of the Lorde may be spoken of the Ladie The mercie of a man is towarde his neighbour but the mercie of the Lorde is ouer all flesh Thus ye robbe God of his glory to adourne hir attributing all to hir And say that the father hath written in hir his power where Christ sayth contrarie all povver is giuen me of my father in heauen and earth c. that the sonne hath vvritten in hir his vvisedome that the holy ghost hath vvritten in hir his goodnesse and mercie Againe the father hath made hir his Treasorer vvhereby shee hath conquered the Deuill and povvreth into cur mindes diuine knovvledge The sonne hath made hir his Chamberlayne The holy ghost hath made hir his Cellerer The vvhole Trinitie hath made hir Almosiner of heauen Shee is Chauncellour to the holy ghost shee is Porter of Paradise Ipsa nanque est ostium c. For shee is the doore by the vvhich vve enter into Paradise vvhich by Eue vvas shutte and by hir is opened Ipsa enim est quae nos suis meritis in atrium principis introducit For it is shee that by hir merits bringeth vs into the porch of the Prince VVhervpoÌ„ Ioh. 18 it is sayde A Damsell that was the doore keeper the blessed virgine calleth hirselfe an handemayde or Damsell let in Peter into the Princes porche Ipsa nanque virgo For euen the virgin is the vvindovv vvherby God beholdeth vs vvith the eie of mercie Uirgo autem Maria. The Virgin Marie is the throne of mercy grace and glorie she is the Sunne to the iust the Moone to the Saints the faithful vvitnesse to sinners the aduocate of mankinde the drop that softneth all hardnesse There vvere three things that once vvere hard God that receyued none to mercie Death that svvalovved vp all to hell the Deuill that enraged vvith enmitie But the Virgin Marie so mollified God that he receiued all men to mercie She so trodde death vnder foote that novve he can not take avvay the Saints Shee ouercame the Deuill that he can novve â–ª deceyue none but him that lust to be deceyued that novv shee may say I forsake you not but as a drop I abyde vvith you bicause my odour abydeth vvith you vvherevvith I haue mollifyed God I haue troden dovvne death I haue ouercome the Deuill This is one droppe of hir grace master Stap. but what can ye ascribe more to al the droppes of the bloud of christ To conclude ye make hir all in all Shee â—…lenseth vs from our sinnes â–ª shee lightneth vs from ignorance she strengthneth vs from our infirmities Et per ipsam virg c. and by the blessed
al and only true and all that we replie is starke false Thirdly the Prince must not condemne vs but you our enemies and accusers must sit vppon vs and condemne vs Fourthly the Prince must as you bid him put vs to death and for more assuraunce to catche vs ye giue him this libertie that he may make any lawe to attache vs to emprison vs to heade hang or burne vs Prouided alway that this lawe be nothing else but for punishment and that of those that you appoint and will crie ouâ—… vpon for heretikes and to deale no further Here is all things made sure against the poore protestantes Who séeth not that euen as shéepe appointed to the slaughter they must néedes die if you but please to bid the prince to kill them they must néedes be heretikes if once you call them so And now that ye haue brought your matters to this passe let vs sée how ye cry out against vs. VVe say with S. Aug. say you that princes may punish wicked deprauers of religion And we further saye that you are those O maister St. that ye woulde stande to your word say as S. Aug â–ª did But it may be ye will say it with S. August but will ye also meane it with S. Augustine for there is litle trust to your saying without your meaning Ensample right now of your last graunt wherein you spared not to belie S. Aug. if ye meane with S. Aug. plainly that Princes may punish wicked deprauers of religion as did the Emperour in S. Augustines time there is then yet good hope of equitie that you shall not be your owne Iudges and our condemners to But the Prince shall appoint delegates vprightly betwéene vs both yea the matter maye come to be hearde and discussed before the prince himselfe and to bée iudged of him who are in the right who are in the wrong for thus did the Emperour in S. Augustines time and S. Augustine lyked well of it but of all things you cannot abide this and yet ye boast for fashion saâ—… that ye saye with S. August Princes may punishe wâ—… deprauers of religion But ye adde withall at the harde héeles thereof And we further saye that you are those Whereby ye signifie howe farre ye will allowe their punishing And that the prince and all must be ruled by your bare saying for ye alleage no reason or argument to preue it but onely auouch it saying And wee further saye that you are those As though your bare so saying were full proofe of the matter and reason good inough to cause the prince to punish vs. But if the Prince take that ye haue graunted hym to punishe the wicked deprauers of religion as Saint Augustine sayeth he ought and the Emperour then did then so fast as you shall saye that wee are those we will also not saye onelye but prooue that you are those And a righteous Prince will punishe as he séeth prooues and not as he heareth onely sayings Nowe therfore if ye will say with S. Augustine thus tell on your tale hardilye and we feare not your malice VVe say with Saint Augustine say you that Christian Princes maye make a decree ye à of death as did Nabuchodonozor against the blasphemers of God and carefully prouide that God and his Sacraments be not lightly contemned This is well sayde of you master Stapleton and euen the same with tongue and heart say we and haue proued it alreadie with many ensamples But you say it from the teeth outwarde howe chaunce else that ye sayde not thus much before Yea howe chaunce ye sayde that Saint Augustine ment no more but of their lawes for punishing Heretikes Here are lawes for blasphemers also And though euery Heretike be a blasphemer yet is not euery blasphemer an Heretike And ye knowe Nabuchodonozors lawe was not of Heretikes but of Heathen blasphemers And yet besides the lâ—… of their punishing howe chaunce ye forgot also this part of their authoritie carefully to prouide that God and icâ—… Sacraments be not lightly contemned Is all this carefull prouiding nothing else but punishing Heretykes yes master Stapleton it importeth muche more and euen as muche as we ascribe to Princes and as the Quéenes Maiestie taketh on hir And nowe that yee haue once againe graunted thus muche to Princes spare not a Gods name to charge vs with the worst ye can onelye stande you to your tackling as we wyll stande to ours VVe say say you you are as great blasphemers as euer the Church of Christ had How proue ye that M. Stap. say we why say you we say so and that is proufe good ynough for vs In déede it is proufe good ynough for you yea the best proufe that ye haue For bad ye any better I knowe ye woulde not spare to lay it in our dishe But remember master Stapleton that yee haue giuen the Prince that authoritie of punishing blasphemers that Saint Augustine gaue to the Emperour in his time That is to wete not to punish he wottes not what but by his authoritie eyther to appoynt Delegates or himselfe to sit and here the tryall and iudge who are the blasphemers and who are not So that nowe your saying we be will not serue yuo in stéed vnlesse ye proue your saying Else might we put it to a double post and say passe to you you are greater blasphemers yea the greatest blasphemers that euer the Churche of Christ had And to proue it not onely on you but euen of your head also your holy father the Pope whose blessed lippes can they blaspheme trow you I praye ye remember who sayde he woulde eate Porke despetto de dâ—…o euen in dispite of GOD. But let this blasphemous Porkeling go and say you on master Stapleton VVe say say you you be they that haue contemned Christes sacraments making of seuen two and vsing those two after such a sort that the olde prouerbe may the more is the pittie in a maner take place as good neuer a whitte as neuer the better Here is still nothing but we say to aunswere therefore we say with we say we say agayne that you are those Sophisters that by the arte of multiplication whereof ye spake in your Preface haue learned muche more comning than had the scholler of Oxeforde that woulde make thrée egges of two you will make seuen of two and comming out with your fiue egges as the Preuerbe also sayth euery one of them are rotten making of two Sacraments seuen But fiue of them are of your owne hatching Cocks egges without yolkes no sacraments at all And two of them the one baptisme fowly prophaned the other hurled quite away and an Idoll euen by your owne definition of an Idoll put in place This lay we to your charge proue vs lyers and ye can And to that ye say we contemne Christs Sacraments we briefly say againe ye say vntruth except ye can proue we
wife or any other mans wife daughter or mayde in things perteyning to their duties and offices can and ought to doe Especially sithe your selfe in prosecuting this argument vrge the example of a woman All the women in his kingdome are his subiects so well as the men He hath a supreme gouernment ouer all persons in all causes can he therfore do their duties and yet he can haue the supreme gouernment to maynteine all lawes of matrimonie and to punishe all whordomes and yet not like euery somoner or other executioner of their punishements If ye say a woman may be no inferiour gouernour That is false a wife hath inferiour gouernment in hir housholde and many women haue had inferiour gouernments vnder kings in common weales as the Lady regentes in Flaunders c. But what if she were not an vndergouernour yet if she be a subiect gouerned the words of your definition coÌ„prehend hir saying A chiefe gouernour hath of necessitie the power of doing all those thinges which may be wrought of the inferiours to the magistrates of that congregation by their office or by any charge belonging properly to the same congregation But you will say perhaps that women are of an other kinde so that the king can not do al their offices As likewise for the ecclesiastical gouernment the Apostles might not lawfully do all those things that the widdowes chosen to serue in the congregation mighte and ought to do nor the ciuill magistrate of those congregations might or ought to do them Then will M. Feckenham presse you that your definition is false a gouernour can not do all things that belongeth to a subiect If ye say a woman is not a subiecte that is false If ye say she is not a subiect in respect she is a woman that is false also for both men and women are subiectes to their gouernours If ye say she is not a subiecte in respect she is a wife although I graunt the worde wife hath an other relation than to the king to wife vnto hir husbande yet what auayleth this sithe many offices haue many other relations also the sonne to his father the seruant to his master the scholler to his scholemaster and yet all these be subiects to the Prince although the Prince can not deale in all their seuerall offices But you thinke to salue all the matter with this exception I say not that he which is endowed with chiefest power should straight wayes haue the knowledge of euery lesser office for this perteyneth to the fact and not to the right Neither say I it is alwayes comely that he should execute the inferiour offyce by him selfe but I say there is no lawe to let him no power wants whereby the chiefe magistrate shoulde not do those things which the inferiours in the same common weale are wonte to doe Go to go to M. Saunders ye will still be like the gentleman that would fayne haue eaten his worde if he durst for shame Ye come in pretily and beginne to make some exceptions already you admitte he may wante knowledge of many things perteyning not to his office yea and that it is vncomely he should do them And in déede M. Saunders if you be thinke ye of euery subiectes doings ye shall finde many vncomely and vnreuerent things for so highe an estate to do and many things that he knowes no more howe to do them him selfe than that Cooke that would put mustarde into his milke to season it What and may the Prince do those things him self that are so vile and wherof he hath no knowledge He may say you and he will what righte or lawe may let him If ye talke M. Saunders of a wilfull foole that will caste him selfe and his kingdome away if ye talke of a tyraunt whose will is lawe that sayth as the Pope doth Sic volo sic iubeo stet pro ratione voluntas that is another matter But if ye talke of a king and of a lawfull power then I say his will and power oughte to be restrayned by lawe to do nothing vnskilfully nor vncomely for his estate I graunt he may abase him selfe to some inferiour kinde of offices to do them but not to all no not by the right of his royall estate And yet by his gouernment all those thinges are done that are orderly done Although he him selfe may not do them though he would Do ye not remember S. Paules similitude so ofteÌ„ vsed by your selfe M. Saunders of a coÌ„mon weale resembled to our body The head ye say often gouerneth all the parts and meÌ„bers but the head it selfe doth not nor can not do al that al the parts members do We stande not we go not we sit not on our heads our head reacheth not nor caÌ„ reach euery thing that our hande can reache doth Nor the head doth or can do the office of the shouloers back or belly yet ye graunt the head hath supreme gouernment ouer al these parts deuiseth lawes orders diets prouisioÌ„s helpes for all the parts and actions in the parts of all the body Thus ye sée not only by similitudes examples in which I might be infinite agaynst your thâ—… exaÌ„ples but also by good reason your definition of a supreme gouernour faileth he may be a lawful supreme gouernour yet can not do al the offices of his inferiours Yea it were vnlawful for him to attempt many such things and yet his lawfull supreme gouernmeÌ„t euen ouer all those things that he him selfe can not do nor ought to do is no whit therby empayred And therfore this is a false principle to builde as ye do thereon Nowe this béeing thus playnly proued a false groundeworke let vs sée howe ye procéede to frame your argument on it VVhich things beeing thus foretouched I adde vnto them that the supreme head or gouernour of any Church is the supreme magistrate of that coÌ„mon weale which no man hauing his right minde will denie Therfore if the king may rightly and worthily be named the supreme head or gouernour of that Churche as nowe this good whyle is done in Englande the same king shall also necessarily haue the facultie of working all those things which of that magistrate of that Churche may be wrought otherwyse he is not the gouernour of that Church in respecte it is a Church But in euery christian kingdome there are and ought to be many that shoulde preache the worde of God to the faythfull that shoulde baptise in the name of the father and of the sonne of the holy ghost the nations coÌ„uerted that should remitte sinnes that shoulde make the sacrament of thanksgiuing distribute it therfore he that is the supreme gouernour of any Church ought to be endowed with such power that no law should let wherby he might the lesse fulfil do al these things But a secular king although he be a christian can not do these things by the
force of his royall power oâ—… else a woman also might bothe teache in the Churche and also remitte sinnes and baptise orderly and solemnly and minister the sacrament of thankesgiuing For sithe bothe by the lawe of nations it is receyued that a woman may be admitted to the gouernment of a kingdome and in Moses lawe it is written when a man shall dye without a sonne the enheritance shall passe to the daughter but a kingdome commeth among many nations in the name of enheritaÌ„ce And sithe Debora the Prophetesse iudged the people of Israell and also Athalia and Alexandra haue reigned in Iurie it appeareth playnly that the kingly right appertayneth no lesse to women than to men VVhich also is to be sayde of children bicause according to the Apostle the heire though he be a childe is Lorde of all And Ioas began to raygne when he was seuen yere olde and Iosias reigned at the eight yere of his age But a childe for the defecte of iudgement a woman for the imbecillitie of hir kinde is not admitted to the preaching of Gods worde or to the solemne administration of the Sacraments I permit not sayth the Apostle a woman to teache For it is a shame for a woman to speake in the Churche and the same Apostle sayth that the heire being a childe diffreth nothing from a seruant But it is not the ecclesiasticall custome that he which remayneth yet a seruaunt shoulde be a minister of the Churche Sith therefore in the right of a kingdome the cause is all one of a man of a woman and of a childe but of like causes there is like and all one iudgement but neither childe nor woman and therevpon neither man also that is nothing else but king can do those things in his kingdome which of other ministers of the churche of God are necessarily to be done therfore it commeth to passe that neither the same king can rightly be called the supreme gouernour and head of the Church wherin he liueth All this long argument standeth stil on the foresayd principle that a supreme head or gouernour must be such a person as may do all the actions of all the offices belonging to all the parties gouerned But this is a false principle as alredy is manifestly declared therfore al this long driuen argument is to no purpose The Prince for all this may stil be the supreme head or gouernour ouer all Ecclesiastical persons so well as temporall in all their ecclesiasticall causes so well as in temporall although he himselfe can not exercise all ecclesiasticall functions nor doe himselfe all the ecclesiasticall actions of all ecclesiastical persons For else he might also be debarred of all supremacie ouer all ciuill and temporall persons in all their ciuill and temporall causes bicause he can not himselfe exercise all the ciuil and temporall offices nor do himselfe all the ciuill and temporall actions of all the ciuill and temporall persons neyther And so shoulde â—…e cleane be debarred from supremacie in either power nor haue any supreme gouernment at all Nowe taking this your false principle pro confesso â–ª after your wonted maner ye would driue vs to an absurditie as ye suppose by bringing in more examples of a woman and a chyld reasoning thus A pari from the like A woman and a child may be as well a supreme gouernor as may a man and hath as good right thereto But a woman or a childe can not be a supreme gouernour in causes Ecclesiasticall Ergo A man can not be a supreme gouernour neither in causes Ecclesiasticall For to this conclusion the force of bothe the promisses naturally driueth the argument I know ye clap in a paire of parenthesis saying in your coÌ„clusion neither a man also that is nothing else but a king But sith these wâ—…r des ar neither in the maior nor the minor the coÌ„clusion is plain â–ª that a man can not be a Supreme gouernor in causes Ecclesiasticall And I pray ye then tell me who shall be the supreme gouernour in ecclesiasticall causes if neyther man woman nor chyld may be wherby are not only excluded ciuill Princes but youre Popes are debarred from it Pope Ioane and Pope Iohn also For if they vse that order in the election to haue a Cardinall féele that all be safe yf the Uersicle be sayde Testiculos habet howe can the quyre meryly syng in the responce Deo gratias If hée be founde to bée a man he can not be supreme gouernoure Maister Saunders therefore muste néedes mende thys argumente or else the Popes for whome he writes this boke wyl con him small thanks except that they be Eunuches But Master Saunders not marking the sequele of hys conclusion fortifieth the parts of his argument To confirme the maior A woman and a childe may be as wel a supreme gouernour as a man he citeth the lawe Num. 27. he citeth ensamples Debora Athalia and Alexandra for women For children he citeth the Apostle Gal. 4. and the ensamples of Ioas and Iosias But these proues are superfluous sith the controuersie is not on the maior but on the minor Which minor is the point in controuersie and denied of vs that a woman or a childe can not be a supreme gouernour in causes ecclesiastical To confirme this minor for a woman he alleageth that she can not be admitted to preache the woorde of God remit sinnes nor baptize orderly and solemnely nor administer the Lordes Supper bothe for the imbecillitie of hir kinde and for Saint Paules prohibition of teaching in the Church For a chyld he lykewise can not do the same things as well for defect of iudgement in his nonage as for Sainte Paules witnesse that he differs not from a seruant But the Churches vse is not for seruantes to doe these things and so not for children to do them Here for confirmation of his minor master Sanders rusâ—…s to his false former principle that if the woman the chyld be supreme gouernors in these things then muste they be able themselues to do these things But they cannot do these thinges themselues Ergo they can haue no supreme gouernmeÌ„t in them But this reason is alreadie taken away and therfore al this argumeÌ„t falles We graunt it is true that neither women nor children can do these things And therfore the Papistes are to blame that suffer women to bapatize and to saye or sing in theyr quyres theyr ordinarie seruice and reade the Lessons Wee graunte them also that no men neyther but suche as bée lawfully called therevnto maye themselues exercise and do these things but doth this fellow they may not therfore haue a gouernment ouer those that doo them in their orderly doing of them if this were true then take away all their gouernement ouer all lay persons and all ciuil causes too For neyther women can nor ought them selues to do all that men béeing their subiects can and ought to
doo Will ye haue a woman weare a mans apparell it is flat forbidden by Gods worde Will ye haue a Quéene fight hir self in a battaile and breake a speare as a king may do In déed some mannish women as the Quéene of Amazons Thomyris Semiramis and other haue so doone but it is not sitting And by your owne reason the imbecillitie of theyr kynde doth cléere them And a number of such other things may be reckoned vp Shall we now saye the Quéene is not supreme gouernour ouer these persons and causes bicause hir selfe can not doe them Likewyse for a king that is a chylde you know he can not fight in battell himselfe neyther can he himselfe sit in iudgement and debate rights and wrongs in ciuil doubtes manie mo things can he himselfe not doe euen bicause as ye say he hath a defect in iudgemeÌ„t Hath he therfore in these ciuill and temporall thyngs no supreme gouernment Thus ye sée still your examples faile yea they make cleane agaynst you for as a supreme gouernor may wel be a supreme gouernor in those things that he himself can not do so a christeÌ„ princes supreme gouernmeÌ„t ouer al ecclesiastical persons in al ecclesiastical causes is nowhit hindred although the prince he or she yong or old can not do the functions ecclesiastical nor be an ecclesiast person The second argument is that he so often and al the Papists vse of the excellencie of the minister in his ministration aboue the Prince To this he citeth the saying of Saint Paule Let men â—…o esteeme vs as ministers of Christ and dispensers of his mysteries To whiche ministerie kings are not called And here is againe alledged the storie of â—…ziae that presumed to offer incense and was punished with â—…eaprie The effect of all the argument he knitteth vp thus Siergo minister c. If therfore the minister of the Church of Christ exercise a greater and more diuine ministerie than the king or any other prince howe is the king the Supreme heade of that churche wherein he seeth certaine ministers greater than himselfe I answere this is a fallation secundum quid ad simpliciter We graunt in the respect of his ministerie the minister is aboue all Princes But this pertayneth to the actions and function of the minister and not to the ouersight and direction that all those actions and functions be orderly done Nowe this béeing but a common argument Master Saunders vrgeth it further by comparison of eyther estate the Prince and the Priest from the olde Testament to the newe saying Ac nimirum illud c. And thys namely I seeme to take by my right the authoritie of any Christian king in his christian kingdom is not greater than was in tymes paste the authoritie of any Iewishe kyng among the people of the Iewes for if the Citie of God to whyche Chryste of his owne name hathe giuen a newe name maye verily bee the more woorthie but can not be inferiour to the Churche of the Iewes â–ª Surely then it followeth that a christian king ouer his christian kingdome can not obtaine more power than a kyng of the Hebrue nation did obteyne among the Hebrâ—…wes For howe muche the more any Common weale is subiecte too their earthly Kyng the authoritie of that common weaâ—…e is so muche the lesse But the authoritie of the Churche of Christe is not lesse than the authoritie of the Synagoge of the Iewes bycause in the churche of Christe those thinges were fulfilled to the verie image of the things whiche in the Synagoge of the Iewes were scarce figured by the naked shadowes As the truthe in deede in greater than the image so againe the image is greater than the shadowe but this is euident that the authoritie in times past of the only king is lesser than the authoritie of his christian kingdome or of hys Bishops But if it be so then the christian king which is both lesse than the church and the bishops of his kingdom cannot be immediatly vnder Christ the head of the churche This argument is intricate and full of many inuersed cringle crangles to shewe a face of déepe and subtill knowledge beyonde the simple mans capacitie whyche kynd of reasonyng is more suspicious than to edifying The effecte of the argument standeth all on this The greater authoritie is giuen to a christian king the lesser haue the Priestes and the churche But the priestes and the churche haue not lesse authoritie but aboue a christian king Ergo the king hath not supreme authoritie To the Maior that the greater authoritie is giuen to a christian king the lesser haue the priests and the churche he sayeth nothing And yet some what is to be sayde thereto it is not so cléere as he makes it For sith eyther of these thrée haue their authorities in dyuers considerations the Priests authoritie may be greater than the kings authoritie in one respecte that is of his diuine actions and ministerie and yet in an other of the gouernement and publike direction the kinges authoritie is greater than his And so althoughe the Churches authoritie in one respecte be greater than bothe the Kings and the Priestes as they are bothe but membres and children of the Churche yet in regarde that the one is a Pastour and the other a gouernour and both of them Fathers and guyders as it were vnto the church their authorities againe are greater than the Churches And this also sheweth the falshood of the Minor that the Priestes and the Churche haue not lesse authoritie but are aboue the prince Which is not true but in suche respectes as nothing hinder the supreme gouernement that we giue the prince But Maister Saunders to confirme this to bée simply true the prince to be inferior to the Priests and people will proue it by his comparison of the state of the olde and newe Testament And first he will haue the state of the olde Testament in the Churches gouernement to be a figure of the newe But in the estate of the old Testament the Prince was vnder the priest and the people Ergo it must be so in the new To the maior we graunte him the gouernment of the Church in the old testament to be a figure of the churches gouernment in the new testameÌ„t And remember this well that here M. Saunders buyldes vpon For if he himselfe shal be found to swarue from it afterwarde when he findeth it shall make agaynst hym then let him blame himselfe and let vs note bothe inconstancie and cantradiction in him who playeth the snayle puttyng in and out his hornes and will say and eate his worde as he thinketh best to his aduantage And this is the fashions of them all in the examples of the old testament as we haue séene the practise of M. Feckenham M. Stapleton which is a subtile false and vnstedfast kind of dealing But go to we denie the minor that in the state of the
in his personal exercise of the ecclesiasticall functioÌ„ wherto a mature age is requisite But the kings Supremacie requireth no such personall exercise of ecclesiasticall function but is cleane another matter therfore this example of Christes age is impertinent Secondly we grauÌ„t the Churche shoulde not be gouerned of a childe in that respecte he is a childe in which consideration he is no king as you distinguished before betwene a man and a christiaÌ„ maÌ„ and ye must so againe distinguishe betwéene his nature and his person or his person and his office Nowe in regarde of his office the defecte of his nature is supplyed by those that represent him in his office and they béeing men of graue yeares and knowledge you can not iustly say the gouernement is committed to a childe The second argument is taken from S. Paule 4. Gal. Moreouer a childe so long as hee is a little one liueth vnder Tutors and gouernours and so the Supreme Heade of the Churche needeth another superior Head to gouerne and rule him and that not so muche by chaunce or fortune as by imbecillitie of his proper nature and the necessitie of the thing it selfe Howe can he therefore be the Supreme Head of the Church that liueth vnder an other head Ercept M. Saunders were bent pienishly to warble he would not reason thus knowing well inough that those of riâ—…er yeres which gouerne the kings person in his nonage be not his head and he a member or subiecte vnder them but they representing him he and they are but one in office and their gouernemente is not properly theirs but is the kings owne gouernemente And so the head hath no head ouer him but onely Iesus Christ. But M. Saunders foreseeing that by this reason he might make the childe no king at all of his kingdome which he before confessed that king Edwarde was as full king as his father he preuenteth the obiection and séeketh a scape to shifte it For if ye say by the same reason he is not king of his kingdome neither bicause he is compelled to gouerne that also by others the answere is easie it is no maruell if the lawe of man which placeth children ouer kingdomes by force of succession be founde imperfecte But it were greatly to be marueled if the lawe of Christ also whereby he placeth pastors ouer his Church coulde be accused in anie parte of imperfection For as Moses lawe brought nothing to perfection so on the contrarie the lawe of Christ lefte nothing vnperfect as whome it became to fulfill all righteousnesse Therefore there shall bee none much lesse anie chiefe head in the Churche of Christe the which by nature can not doe the office of an ecclesiastical head But a childe can neither teach nor baptize nor by anie meanes assoile the harder questions of the Gospell The answere M. Saunders as ye say is easie but is it a good answere it were an easie matter to answere if such easie answeres may serue that ye may say what ye will and contrarie your selfe too when ye finde an inconuenience And such an inconuenience as wipes away all your former reasons Neither can ye sufficiently aunswere it that if your reason hold of the defecte of the kings nonage while he is a chylde he may then be no gouernor at all no not in Temporall matters neither bycause therein he is gouerned of others also in that he is but yet a chylde and so in his kingdome shoulde become no gouernour at all But for an easie answere to this ye saye this is a defecte in the lawe of man. Why M. Saunders do ye nowe make this the lawe of man that a chylde myght be a King sayde ye not before and that more truely it was gods lawe Numeri 27. and Gal. 4. and cited for examples Ioas and Iosias and againe doe ye saye this is an imperfection in the lawe that is an imperfection in the person nay Maister Saunders the lawe of succession was good and perfecte Neither your sentence that ye cite of S. Paule the lawe brought nothing to perfection serues to this purpose Neither was the fault in the law but in the defecte of the obseruer But saint Paule speakes there of the morall law and of iustification which the lawe of God giuen by Moyses could not bring to perfection confuting an other error which the Phariseis the Pelagians and the Papistes holde But what is this to the present purpose Saint Paule complaineth not of the imperfection of the politike lâ—…w of the Iewes therfore this is manifestly wrested Ye obiect that Christs law is perfect as though S. Paules law Gal. 4. cited by your selfe for the kingdome of a child be not also the law of Christ and as for Christs law for the pastors of his Church â–ª we accuse it not to be imperfecte and yet in the pastors themselues there is no perfection althoughe Christes law for them be most perfect But what answereth this the purpose The Prince takes not the pastorall office on him nor to doe the office of an ecclesiasticall head as ye terme it nor to teache or baptise or astoyle the hard questions of the Gospell either in his noneage or in his full age either childe or man These are but your surmised sclaunders on the Prince But to deuise sclaunders is with you an easie answere Nowe vpon these argumentes against the supremacie of king Edward he knits vp his conclusion of the euent saying therefore sith God after not the best man calling him selfe the heade of the Churche did substitute a childe euen by the things themselues he admonished vs that that honour did not rightly agree to the father that was so euill applied to his sonne The more ye dâ—… still vnreuerently carpe at king Henry calling him not the best maÌ„ the more ye shew your cankred stomak M. Saunders that your selfe are one of the worst kind of meÌ„ whose malice no not death caÌ„ satiate But the more it redoundeth to the praise of that moste noble and vertuous king being holdeÌ„ for so much the better man of all good men how much the worse man such wicked men as you esteeme him ab illaudatis vituperari laudabile est it is commendable to be dscommended of discommendable men Your interpretatioÌ„ of a child succéeding him hath neither charitie nor truth neither can you frame anye good argumente on it but rather on the contrarie Where God so blessed the raigne of the childe that in so shorte a time so long rooted superstitions Idolatries were abolished and the word of God so truely and fréely set forth it argueth that God not onely liked the title of the father but also confirmed it in the sonne shewed well that the childhood of his person was no impediment to the authoritie of his office as you maliciously woulde wrest it After Kyng Edwarde ye come to Queene Marie saying Moreouer when men neither thus awaked
had not deliuered vs from it and yet sée if these Papistes that can so narrowly spie and proll at euery note in king Henry and kings Edwards dayes can in Quéene Maries dayes espie anye one of these great beames that were such apparante tokens of gods wrath that all men sawe and felt what euents succeeded the refusall of this title and the yéelding it to the Pope nerehand the cleane subuersion of this Realme if we may iudge by sequels Now after Quéene Marie he comes to the Quéenes Maiestie that now God be praised most prosperously raigneth ouer vs. But vvhen very many giuen to heresies vvere offended at this notable modestie of the Queene neither vvould they yet vnderstande his Counsell in gouerning his Churche God brought to passe that Marie of happie memorie being dead the kingdome of England should deuolue to such a vvoman as novve vvriteth hir selfe The supreme gouernesse in all matters and causes asvvell ecclesiasticall as secular That yet so at the length by the successe it selfe men of hard harte and obstinate necke mighte marke hovv euill king Henry tooke this office vpon him the vvhiche of his heire and successour could not duely and orderly be fulfilled For to whom it is not permitted to teach vvhich is the most necessarie office of an ecclesiasticall Head hovv shal she performe those greater offices that are occupied in the chastisement and correction of them that ought to teache the people or shall she vvhich is vnvvorthie that she should hir selfe teache publiquely in the lovvest degree moderate and reprehend vvith lavvful authoritie other publique teachers in the highest degree or if she can not lavvfully reprehend them shall she yet be lavvfully supreme gouernesse of the Church I omit here the things that in these yeares vvhich are last passed haue bene I knovv not hovv vncomely done and preached in Englande vnder such supreme heads of the Church I spare the dignitie of theÌ„ that gouerne Another time if God vvill I vvill handle them particularly hovve greatly both from the lavve of God and from the sentence of the auncient Churche and from righte reason that state of a common vveale is farre in vvhiche any king arrogateth to himselfe the office and name of the supreme head of the Church Is your part so false and weake of proues Maister Saunders that it can win no credite but by discrediting of ours with sclaunders and yet we woulde pardon this in you ascribing it either to some passion of choler against your aduersaries or to blinde affection of your selues that ye call verie manie of vs giuen to heresies hard harted and obstinate necked which are termes fitter to muster in M. Stapletons coÌ„mon places than to stuffe vp M. doctor Saunders volumes howe they redownde vpon your selues let other iudge â–ª that will reade and view of both But if we forgiue you this for our parts shal we stil suffer you to raile vpoÌ„ sclander the Lordes annoynted saying she arrogateth to hir selfe the office and name of the supreme Head of the Church speaking at randon withoute limitation of the Churche as the Pope doth arrogate to himselfe and taketh on hir to be an ecclesiasticall head and publique teacher of other that should teach hir these are too too infamous sclauÌ„ders of hir Maiestie that claimeth no such title nor attempteth any such thing What supreme gouernement is ascribed to hir highnesse we haue tolde you a thousand times but I sée ye will not vnderstand it bicause ye would of set purpose sclander it But to knit vp your argument of the euent and sequele of the Quéenes Maiesties raigne ye say many things haue bin done and preached in England ye cannot tell hovv vnsemely â—… thinke euen the same M. Saunders ye can not tell howe â—…ndede But howe vnseemely a thing is this for one of your â—…rofession to chalenge ye cannot tell what nor howe ye set owne nothing but vnder a pretence of sparing vs to bréede â—…et a furder sclaunderous suspition ye threat vs that ye will â—…serue theÌ„ til a furder leisure that is to say ad Kalendas graecas til â—…e shall first know them and then be able to proue them in the meane seasoÌ„ ye take the wisest way to say such ther are but what they are ye cannot now tell ye wil learne theÌ„ out and tell vs another time but tell the worste ye canne ye shal neuer be able to tell of any fals doctrine preached and by the Prince approued to be preached nor of anye wicked facte allowed by publike authoritie to be done No Maister Saunders in all the Quéenes Maiesties raigne ye can neuer be able to proue any suche things but in the raigne of your Popes we can proue many such things as whordome committed and maintained murder done and maintained Idolatry vsed and maintained and infinite errors preached and maintained by publique authoritie among the Papists As for the Quéenes maiesties raigne that now is if the euent and sequele may make an argument God hath so blessed it maugre all your spites and practises that no Realme christian hath florished like nor Englande more at anye tyme The Lord be praised for it and for his mercie sake long continue it that hath giuen so goodly a token of his well liking hir Maiesties supreme gouernment The thirde Chapter The argument is that Princes can not iudge nor define in causes Ecclesiasticall OF those errors that are about the povver of kings and magistrats the secoÌ„d error is of theÌ„ that thinke kings are not in dede the chief heads of the Churches in vvhich they raigne but in certaine causes Ecclesiastiall to bee euen as vvorthie members as Bishops â–ª for although in one certaine thing as in the office of teaching they preferre Bishops before kings yet partly in another Ecclesiasticall matter as in deposing a Byshop from his seat or in moderating any synode they preferre kings before Bishops partly they vvill haue it free for kings that almoste in euery ecclesiasticall matter they may knowe and decerne as Iudges Of the confutation of whiche errour this is the reason that I should shewe in euery cause of the ecclesiastical lawe that is to be knowne and iudged Kinges to be so muche in the place of priuate men that this trial can not of the ecclesiasticall Iudges be committed vnto them Although I denie not but that of some facte that perteyneth to the eccl. lawe the knowledge may be committed to Kinges and Magistrates But before the eccl. cause be known the king may orderly intermeddle his authoritie to that ende that a quiet place may be graunted where the Bishops should iudge And also that the Bishops may be called at a certayne day to that place And that in the meane season whyle the ecclesiasticall cause is knowne the publique peace yea euen in the assembly of Priestes may be conserued To conclude after the cause knowne and iudged of the Pristes the king either by the sworde that he
life for me he can not be my Disciple much more then must he hate his kingdome and be readie to leaue his kingdome and all the good in the vvorlde for Christe or else hee is no Christian. You say true M. Sanders he must forsake and hate al for Christes sake But that he must do this for your Byshoppes sakes when they will say it is expedient he should so do that I finde not in the words of Christe and yet muste you beware howe you expounde that saying For he is bound also to loue and to kéepe to the vttermost all these thinges in their kindes not to renounce nor hate theÌ„ except they hinder him from Christ whom he must prefer before al things But this loue to Christe in principall maye stande togither with these loues wel inough Neither is he any more bounde to resigne his kingdome than to resigne his vvife into the Priestes hands Nor if he abuse his kingdome the Prieste can no more turne him out of it than he can if he abuse his goods and his vvife turne him not of his dores and take his goodes and his vvife from him and kéepe hir himself or giue hir vnto an other This can not the Byshop do although the Prince and euerie man be bounde to lose al for Christes cause Yea the Byshop is bounde hereto as well as any other And God knowes how some of them kepe this bonde and yet wil not they léese one halfpennie for Christes sake howsoeuer they breake it But the kingdome is a â—…oule moate in their eye and therefore the King poore soule must lose all and they must take it from him But now to Master Saunders other arguments Moreouer the kingdomes of faithfull Princes whose people feare God are not altogether earthly or worldlye For in that part that they haue beleued in Christ they haue as it were lefte to be of this worlde and haue begonne to be members of the eternall kingdome for although the outwarde face of things which is founde in kingdomes meere secular be in a Christian kingdome yet sith the spirite of man is farre the more excellent parte of hym and the whole spirite acknowledgeth Christ his King and onely Lorde I see nothing why Christian kingdomes ought not rather to be Iudged spirituall according to their better part than earthly And this is the cause why nowe long since those which gouerned the people of God were wont to be annoynted of his Ministers no otherwise than were the Prophetes and Priestes For euen the Kings them selues also are after a sort partakers of the spirituall Ministerie when they are annoynted not that they should do those things that are committed to the onely Priestes herevnto orderly consecrated but that those things which other Kings referre to a prophane and worldly ende these Kings should now remember that they oughte to directe to an holye ende For when they themselues are made spirituall it is fitte they should will that all their things should be counted as it were spirituall But nowe are spirituall things so vnder the Church of Christ that the Church may freely dispose and decree of them to the profite of the whole mysticall body Syth therefore the people of Israell woulde needes desire a King to be giuen them Samuel by the commaundement of God toke a cruse of oyle and powred it vpon the heade of Saule and kissed him and sayd beholde God annoynteth thee to be the Prince ouer his inheritaunce VVhich to me seemeth to signifie euen as though it had bene sayde except the Lord annoynted thee to be the Prince thou couldest not rightly and orderly be the Prince ouer hys people whiche hee hathe chosen and reserued out of all the worlde to be as it were peculiar to hymselfe For in that that is gods no man can take power to him selfe without Gods permission But God anoynted Saul to be the Prince not by himselfe but by Samuel his minister wherfore whosoeuer ruleth ouer the Christian people which is no lesse acceptable to God than was the people of the Iewes hee besides the right which he receyueth of God by the consent of the people ought also to acknowledge his power to be of Christe by his Ministers if so be that he be suche an one that worshippeth the Fayth of Christe VVherevpon to thys day all Christian kingdomes are annoynted of some Christian Bishop or some other Minister of God referring therein their principalitie not onely to the people and so vnto God but that moreouer by the Priests of Christ they referre it vnto Christ whose Ministers they are For Pope Leo wrote elegantly vnto Leo the Emperour Thou oughtest to marke stedfastly the Kingly power not onely to bee giuen to thee to the gouernement of the worlde but to be giuen thee chiefly for the succour of the Churche that in suppressing naughtie attemptes thou shouldest bothe defende those things that are well decreed and restore the true peace to those things that are troubled If Maister Saunders woulde goe plainely to woorke and make his argumentes shorte and formall and woulde rather shewe his Logike than his Rethorike the truth or falsehoode woulde appéere the sooner the reader perhappes mighte be the lesse delyghted but withoute perhappes hee shoulde be lesse beguyled and the aunswere mighte bée the clearer and the shorter â—…ll this long argument in effect is this All spirituall things are so vnder the Church of Christ that the Church may freely dispose and decree of them to the prosite of the whole mysticall body All Christian Kings and kingdomes are spirituall things Ergo all Christian Kings and Kingdomes are so vnder the Church of Christ that she maye freely dispose and decree of them to the prosite of the whole mysticall body And firste Maister Saunders trauels in the Minor. To proue Christian Kyngs and Kyngdomes spirituall that bycause the better parte of them is spirituall therefore hée seeth nothyng why they oughte not to bee rather iudged spirituall Yea Kings were woâ—…e to bee annoynted no otherwyse than Prophetes and Priestes not to doe theyr actions but to referre all theyr affayres to holy and spirituall dedes And can you sée this Maister Sanders Now how chance you coulde not seeit before when you made the Christian Princes ciuill power to be no better than the Turkes or Tartars to stretch no furder thaÌ„ to the body a quiet lyfe haue you now espied not onely the endes wherevnto they rule but the estate also itselfe by reason of the better parte to be spirituall what hath made you see so cléerely nowe forsooth now is now and then was then You were pleading then that the Christian Princes ciuill estate was so farre different and vnlike that Princes might not meddle in spirituall matters and therfore then was fitte oportunitie to denie that Christian Princes Ciuill power had any spirituall thing in it But nowe we are in another argument that Priestes maye order and dispose
But the pastors in the Church are as the minde is in the body of man as S. Gregorie Nissene hath noted I answere â–ª First this is but a similitude and therefore conâ—…inceth nothing howe ofte soeuer you alleage it We graunt that the Pastors are as it were the mynde of the Churche in the reasoning and discussing the fayth of Christ the word of God the sacraments and mysteries of Christes Church But againe in the maintenance and setting forth in the ouersight and publike direction in the punishement and correction of the trespasses the Prince is the minde the reason and the head also and a pastor in gods Church too And therefore this belongs not onely to the Bishops But be it the Prince be not the minde and reason whose place is in the head Were the King but as the hart or as the will whose place is in the harte yet as the minde dothe but eyther deuise by inuention or discerne by iudgement or remember by memorie and not assent or dissent like or mislike choose or refuse for that belongeth to the will so the spirituall pastor may deuise holsome remedies or remember the Prince of them or discerne in controuersies betwéen this and that which we denie not But the refusall or receiuing the liking or misliking the bidding or forbidding that lyes in the facultie of the Prince Not that the Prince hath facultie to will euery thing no more than the head may deuise euery thing for both ought to will and deuise onely good things â–ª but that the authoritie to put them in executioÌ„ and willing the members to do them as it procéedes principally next to God from y wil so the setting forth of godly ReligioÌ„ taught by the persuasioÌ„ of the pastor as the reason in the head procéedes principally next to God from the Prince as the will in the hart But nowe as M. Saunders hath for stalled the head for the Priest so if he will not relent the harte to the Prince yet I trust he will be thus good vnto him to compare him at the least to some principall member in the body as to the lightes the lunges the lyuer c. If nowe the lightes the lunges or the liuer be infected by whose infection diuerse others parts of the body would become also infected will the head therefore will the minde or reason byd cut them off and hurâ—…e theÌ„ out of the bodie least they infect the other members were it not an vnreasonable reason that would reason thus to haue those rotten meÌ„bers cut off froÌ„ the body of which remaining it may be feared least they should infect the other members when the cutting them awaye straight killeth all the members both head and hart and all and thus you sée M. Saunders if we shal reason by similitudes howe they make more for vs than for you But similitudes may delight or lighten a matter they are not of force to vrge it But M. Saunders will presse it with stronger arguments Besides this S. Paule by name doth teach that power is giuen to the Churche ouer the goods ouer the bodily things of the faithfull For he persuadeth the Corinthians that if they will nedes go to law they should go to lawe before Christians and not before Ethnikes And bicause it mought be said there were no publike Magistrates or iudges ordayned among the Christians he warneth the faithfull that they should appoynt iudges among themselues and if perhaps there were not wisemen in that kind which notwithstanding was not likely yet at the least they should rather appoint contemptible persons thaÌ„ to go to law before the infidels This place is alleaged before and there is aunswered The drift of it here consistes on this argument The Church hath power ouer the goods and bodyly things of the faithfull But the Pastors are the Church Ergo the pastors haue power ouer the goods and bodily things of the faithfull To the Maior I answere the Churche hath power but a limited power Such power as confoundeth not or taketh away the goods or bodily things of any of the faithfull which are members of the Church Such power as is competent to euery member of the Church to possesse to vse and dispose his owne goods and bodily things according to his priuate or publike calling To the Minor I denie it the pastors are not the Churche but members of the Church and haue power onely ouer such goods and bodily things as belong to theÌ„ And yet in that power that they haue of the proprietie of their own goods they may so little spoyle the Prince of his goods or bodily things that they holde them from the Prince and haue by him the peaceable possession of them For all that power vnder God is from the Prince to theÌ„ to al other Neither the Bishops nor any in the Church nor all the Church together hath power to take the Princes goods or his bodyly things froÌ„ him But M. SauÌ„ders to enforce his argument citeth the sayof S. Paule 1. Cor. 6. In that he would haue Christians go to law if they will nedes go to law before Christians and not before Ethnikes Why M. Saunders are Christian Princes and faithfull Magistrates no better with you than Ethnikes and are you Priestes onely Christians for else howe can you apply this to the present purpose that Priests should haue power ouer the goods of the faithfull that the faithfull should run for decision of their coÌ„trouersies to the Priests not to the Princes that the Bishops may iudge of the Princes goods aod kingdome and giue it away to another trow you this was the meaning of S Paule But you excuse the matter with this that they had then no Christian Magistrates As though therfore he had bidden such lawe matters to be determined by their pastors No M. Saund. this was neither the words nor the meaning of him For he knewe the pastors had another power and inough to do therin although they busied not theÌ„selues in the law matters that fel out among the ChristiaÌ„s Not that s. Paule thought they might haue no power of any bodily things nor proprietie of temporall goods or that he thought they mighte in no case be peacemakers in suche brabling matters but that Saint Paule woulde haue the pleadyng and decision of suche things to be rather belonging ordinaryly to some faithfull and honest manne chosen among them selues than to runne to heathen Iudges Which words among themselues do as it were declare that he ment such as was of their owne calling and not their â—…astor â–ª Which is more euident in that he saith is there no wise man among you what not one that can iudge betwene brother and brother so that he speaketh in generall and not onely of the pastor And where he saith chose a contemptible person Except ye will make the pastor contemptible â–ª it argueth he ment not this iudge should
that M. Stapl. passeth so slightly ouer proue the full matter M. Stapleton letteth go the principall mat ter and quarels at the margin Stapl. 77. a. The englishing of the worde supremus The last taken for the chiefest The proportion betweene the stay of an anchor and the staye of a Prince Sadliâ—…g â—… Cowe Beggerly shifts Stapl. 78. b Nicephorus his amplification Stap. fol. 78. b The force of a metaphore 2. Tim. â—… Stapl. 78. b. 1. Tim. 8. M Stapletons order to this diuision Stapl. 79 b Stapl. 80. a. Stapl. 80. a Comparison of learning betweene bishop Gardineâ—… bishop White and Bishop Horne Sta. 80. a. Prouer. 12. Wherfore Nicephorus dedicated his ecclesiastical historie to the Emperour Prefa Niceph. The princes exact iudgement and censure in ecclesiastical matters The Princes reformation of the priestes and of the Churche Stapl. 80. b 79. â—… M. Stapl. inconstancie and contradiction Stapl. 80. b M Stap. grauÌ„teth the good regiment of magistrates to be the spring of true religioÌ„ Prosperitie religion ioyned in a Prince Prâ—…fa Niceph. Stap. 80. b. Stapl. 85. â—… The Grecians fell into the Turkes captiuitie after this submission to the Pope The Papistes haue as muche cause or more to beware by the Grecians captiuitie than the ProtestaÌ„ts The Pope the chiefe cause of the Greke emperours decay The Pope also the chief cause of the Weast Emperours decay The Greeke church neuer became captiue to the Turke till they became thrall to the Pope Stap. 81. a The countreys that obeyed the Pope become thrall to the Turks cap tiuitie Stapl. 81. â—… Blearing the readers eyes How M. Stapl. answeres the Bishops allegation Cyril epi. 17. â—…om â–ª 4. Wherein the Emperoures chief care consisted Obscuritie 2. Cor. 2. Stapl. 8 â—… â–ª b Generalities Particularities Cyril epi. 17. tom 4. The discussing and debating Ecclesiasticall matters argueth not the supreme gouernement of theÌ„ How the Papistes elude the examples of christian princes Stapl. 81. b Stapl. 81. b. M. Stapl. false and subtile translation Principalitie of priest â—…ode Priesthoode sprong not froÌ„ Peter Gal. 2. The Papistes saye S. Iames sayd the 〈◊〉 Masse Peter no massing priest What manner of principalitie of priesthoode Valentinian ment Concil tom 1. The Epistle of Placidia to Theodosius The Epistle of Eudoxia to Theodosius Theodosius Epistle to Valentinian Wherein the Emperour had the gouernement of the councell The Emperor decreeth the decree of the Councell No appeale after the Emperours decree Stapl. 82. â—… Stapl. 82. â—… Act. â—… Stapl. 82. â—… Pag. 19. b. M St. order to this diuision Stapl. 82. b. cap. 20. The state of the question Supra pag. 136. Stap. 82. b. The supreme authoritie the Papistes grauÌ„t to Princes and in what sense they graunt it Stap. 82. b. What state of the question M. St. setteth downe The oth of the supremacie The othe and the statute slaâ—… deâ—…ed by the Papistes Supreme gouernmeÌ„t is not all maner of gouernement How the ministers are higher or inferiour Stapl. 83. a. Stapl. 83. a. The statute eâ—… cluding any forain persons authoritie excludeth net the authoritie of the whole churche Gala. 3. Coloss. 3. Ephe. 2. What authoritie it is that the true catholike church hath Iohn 15. Stap. 8â—… a M. Stapl. quarell for vniting the supremacie to the crovvne M. Stapl. at the ende of his booke woulde leaue a scruple in the readers head of misselyking the state The answere to M. Stapl. inconneâ—…ence of a Turke or an heretike to haue this supremacie Difference betwene a Turke and an heretike What a Turke would doe if he had the crovvne Iob. 34. Psalm 147. The Princes certain and pre sente righte oughte not to be forsakeÌ„ for feare of vncertain inconueniences that may be doubted to come Difference betwene a Princes authoritie and a Princes tyrannie The Statute cleared from M. Stap. inconuenieÌ„ce Howe muche the Papistes regarde the crowâ—…e of 〈◊〉 How well the Pope wisheth to England Whether M. St. inconuenience wold not fall oute if the clause of supre macie were vnited to the Pope What the lawe respecteth in the statute Stapl. 83. a. b. Stapl. 83. b Stapl. â—…3 b. Stapl. 83. b. The excuses of the Papists Stapl. 83. b The Papistes pretence of zeale to God to disobey their Prince The absolute obedience to God hindreth not the conditionall obedience to the Prince What the Papists meane here by God. Hovv Thomas Becket died for Gods cause Sta. 83. b. The accusation of vs. Stapl. 83. b The B. charged for omitting the Principall ecclesiasticall cause Cap. 63. b M. Stapletons contradiction M. Stap. wold driue the B from his issue The Prince and the statute slâ—…undered Difference betwene ecclesiasticall gouernour and gouernour in ecclesiasticall causes How iudgement in ecclesiasticall causes is ascribed to the Prince how not Gal. 1. The statute slaundred The Popishe churche claymeth superioritie in iudgeging of doctrine aboue the Pope Stap. 48. a. Stap. 48. b. Math. 12. The original of bothe powers Lib. 2. cap. 1. pag 56. M. Saunders beginneth with contradictions to himselfe Saund. pag. 57 Saund. 57. Saund. 57. sand pag. 57. Supra pa. 108. Difference betwene the ciuill power of heathen and christian Prin ces Maister Saunders contradictions Saund. pag. 57 The kingdom of Christe in this world but not of this worlde Ecclesiasticall power Saund. pa. 57. How the royal power submitteth it selfe to the Ecclesiasticall power The distinction of In of Stapleton fol. 29. a. b. Deuter. 17. Saund. pa. 57. The vse of both powers M. Saunders contradictioÌ„ Supra pag. 791. Howe Hâ—…lie had the ciuil and ecclesiâ—…sticall power Howe Noe Melchizedech and Abraham had both powers Sâ—…und pa. 56. Howe Moyses had bothe powers How the Machabees had them Howe Samuel had them Speciall consecration Sauâ—… pag. 57. Ozias example Supra pag. sand pag. 57. Supra pag. 670. sand pag. 57. 58. The ende of both powers Math. 10. 1. Tim. 2. How farre the ende of the ciuill power stretcheth Supra pag. 117. M. San. maymeth S. Paules sentence Supra pag. 669. Killing the â—…o dy is not the proper ende of the Princes power An ill Priest killes the soule Platina de sententijs Pij 2. Pag. 80. M. Sanders contrarieth him selfe sand pag. 58. What superiour power we ascribe to the Prince Saund. pa. 5â—… M. sand order in this chapter sand pag. 58. M. Saunders Definition of a gouernour M. sand examples to coÌ„firme his definition M. sand definition false M. sand examples insufficient Diuers instances against M. sand exaÌ„ples The instance of an Embassadour M. Feck tale of a gentleman defending that mustard was good with all meate The instance â—… of woman sand pag. 58. Maister Saunders exceptioÌ„ The vvill and povver of a king restrayned by lavve The similitude of a mannes body Sand. 58. Matth. 28. Iohn 20. 1. Cor. 11. Num 27. Iud. 4. 4. Reg. 11. Gal. 4. 4. Reg. 11. 4. Reg 22. 1. Tim. 2. 1. Cor. 14. Gal. 4. M Saunders argumeÌ„t standeth all