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A02631 A briefe answere of Thomas Harding Doctor of Diuinitie touching certaine vntruthes with which Maister Iohn Iuell charged him in his late sermon at Paules Crosse the VIII of Iuly, anno 1565. Harding, Thomas, 1516-1572. 1565 (1565) STC 12759.5; ESTC S4692 7,461 24

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A BRIEFE ANSWERE of Thomas Harding Doctor of Diuinitie touching certaine vntruthes with which Maister Iohn Iuell charged him in his late Sermon at Paules Crosse the viii of Iuly Anno. 1565. ANTVERPIAE typis Aegid Diest 26. Iulij TO THE READER FOR so muche Gentill Reader as Maister Iuell hitherto hath refused my reasonable request touching his sermon at Paules Crosse of the .27 of Maie last to be imparted vnto me so as he will stand vnto it and hath since that time eftsones doubled his euill demeanour towardes me and his iniurie towardes the truth by his other late sermon of the .8 of Iuly last I trust I shall seme to do neither besydes the dutie of an honest man if I cleare my selfe of slaūder obiected neither besydes that apperteineth to my calling if I defend the truth impugned I confesse in very dede it shold better become my person to bestowe a iust treatise vpō these pointes thē such short pamflets which I wold willingly do after the measure of my simple lerning if I had the said sermons either printed or by M. Iuell hymselfe subscribed But the case standing as it doth and the same being yet denyed I thinke it better thus to write briefly then by silence to seme to acknowledge a gylt to suffer thee to remaine deceiued and the truth iniured If the points whereto now I make answere were mo or fewer or vnder an other forme of wordes vttered then here thou findest them reported therein I am blameles who folow such informations as fresh from Paules Crosse I haue receiued That such thinges were there spokē I am not without cause persuaded seing that the informations by sundry persons aparte made without diuersitie agree in one And because thou art desyrous with many other to be resolued therein to be short thus it is COncerning his sermon of the .27 of Maie there was no great thing said worthy to be answered besydes his disproufe of certaine auncient fathers in the first article of my boke alleaged Of whose good auctoritie I purpose to treate hereafter at large for so the matter requireth Whiche to do at this present the tyme and occasion serueth not Touching his other sermon of the eight of Iuly as the matter he treated of was of more weight so was his dealing therein of more falsehed and shamelesnes First whereas he bare his hearers in hande that in my secōd article for proufe of receiuing vnder one kinde I had belyed S. Paul as though I had said that in the tenth chapter of his first Epistle to the Corinthians he had made no mencion of the cuppe for whiche he triumphed at me not a litle How truly this was said let my boke be triall where vpon occasion of S. Paules receiuing of one only kynde after S. Chrysostomes mynde thou shalt fynde Reader these wordes in the first print fol 41. a. in the later print fol. 61. a. It is not to be marueiled at albeit S. Paul deliuered to the Corinthians the institution of our Lordes supper vnder both kyndes that yet vpon occasion geuen and when condition of time so required he ministred the communion vnder one kynde sith that without doubt he tooke that holy mysterie vnder one kynde for the whole Sacrament as we perceiue by his wordes where he sayeth Vnus panis vnū corpus multi sumus omnes qui de vno pane participamus One bread and one body we being many are all that do participate of one bread where he speaketh nothing of the cuppe Thus there Now iudge who list whether in respect of those wordes of S. Paul I might not saye as I dyd where he speaketh nothing of the cuppe for in those wordes in dede he speaketh not of the cuppe And that my word where hath relation to that sentence of S. Paul only not to the whole chapter For neither coulde I be so blind as not to see mention of the cuppe made in the next sentence before and how absurd had it ben by denying so knowen a trouth to haue geuen such aduantage to the aduersarie Now that S. Paul in that sentence speaketh nothing of the cuppe I will be tried by the most auncient and truest copies both Greke and Latine and by iudgemēt of them of M. Iuelles owne secte them selues yea by thenglish Bibles and new testamentes of best auctoritie Item where I saye in my boke that the blessed sacrament is not called communion because many or as M. Iuell teacheth the whole congregation communicateth together in one place but because of the effect of the sacrament for that by the same we are ioyned to God and many that be diuerse be vnited together and made one mysticall body of Christ which is the church of which body by vertue and effect of this holy sacrament all the faithfuls be members one of another and Christ is the head for profe where of there I alleage Dionys. Areopagita Against this he pretended to haue the auctoritie of Pachymeres of Haimo of Hugo Cardinalis and Gerardus Lorichius For his proufe he alleaged certaine wordes as out of Pachymeres To this I answer First that Georgius Pachymeres in his Greke Paraphrasis vpon Saint Dionysius where only he had cause thereof to treate wrote no suche wordes as according to thinformations Maister Iuell alleaged Neither without doubt hath Haimo Hugo or Lorichius any thing to the contrary of the doctrine which in that behalfe my boke reporteth Now whereas M. Iuell byndeth vs to the auctoritie of the first six hundred yeres after Christ and admitteth none for vs that wrote sithens what reason is it he shuld be heard bringing against vs such as be farre out of the compasse of those yeres and otherwyse in his opinion obscure men and of no fame Lorichius lyueth in our time Hugo Cardinalis lyued Anno Domini 1230. whom M. Iuell doubtles litle estemeth as he who in his replyes to M. D. Cole disgraceth men of greater lerning then this Hugo was of with the contemtible name of the blacke Gard. Yet now he thinketh good to make his most aduantage of them and of who so euer come to hand albeit their wordes that make for his purpose against the doctrine of Saint Dionysius touching this point are not yet brought forth Georgius Pachymeres a Grecian wrote not full three hundred yeres past Haimo long before about the time of Charlemaigne These as the two other notwithstanding their age I esteme as I ought But their bare names without any sentēce alleaged proue no more the contrary of that I affirme thē potecaries empty painted boxes yelde holesome medicines for the sicke Item where in my booke among ther places of holy scripture for proufe of cōmunion vnder one kynde I saye that the place of the .17 chapter of the Actes might be alleaged and adde for better auctoritie of that point the iudgement of S. Chrysostome with these wordes Where Chrysostome and other fathers vnderstand the bread that S. Paull in perill