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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A15978	[A notable discourse, plainelye and truely discussing, who are the right ministers of the Catholike Church written against Calvin and his disciples, ... with an offer made by a Catholike to be a learned Protestant ... .]; Marques de la vraye église catholique. English	Albin de Valsergues, Jean d', d. 1566.; Rishton, Edward, 1550-1586, attributed name. aut; Allen, William, 1532-1594.	1575 (1575)	STC 274; ESTC S112318	85,201	271

that are we bound vnder paine of damnation to auoyde in any wise S. Iohn in the fourth Chapter of his firste Epistle biddeth vs be ware that we beléeue not euery spirite but to trye the spirites whether they be of God or not Then how can they be of God whiche go from the Churche S. Augustine in the exposition of this Epistle of S. Iohn tractatu primo writeth thus Qui ecclesiam relinquit quomodo est in Christo qui in membris Christi non est Quomodo est in Christo qui in corpore Christi non est He that leaueth the Churche howe is he in Christe that is not in the members of Christe howe is he in Christ that is not in the body of Christ By the which S. Augustine affirmeth that the Churche which is the spouse of Christ is also the misticall bodye of Christe and Christe is the heade of the Churche As many therefore as be Christe his shéepe they heare their shepherdes voyce in the Churche They will not heare the voyce of straungers as of Luther Oecolampadius Zuinglius Caluine like heretikes which for all their gaye wordes and crying still Christe and the Gospell maye haue euerye one of them these verses of Persius in his fifte Satyre worthely spoken to him Pelliculam veterem retines fronte politus Astutam vapido seruas sub pectore vulpem Thou kéepest still thine olde hyde vppon thée and bearing a fayre face thou wrappest a wylye foxe vnder thy vaporous brest These be they of whom S. Peter speaketh in the seconde Chapter of his second Epistle Magistri mendaces qui introducunt sectas perditionis Lying masters bringing in sectes of perdition and denying the God that bought them Howebeit sithen it is so as Paule sayeth There will be alwayes rauening wolues non parcentes gregi not sparing the flock And among our owne selues will men arise speaking peruerse thinges And suche is our frayle nature that as the wittie Horace sayeth Decipimur specie recti We be soone deceaued vnder the colour of truth It behoueth vs to folowe the counsel of our head and principall master Iesus Christe whiche teacheth vs an excellent document of heauenly philosophie saying Attendite vobis à falsis Prophetis Take yée héede to your selues and beware of false Prophetes which come vnto you in vestimentis ouium in shéepes cloathing but inwardly they are Lupi rapaces Rauening wolues We must I say beware that we be not deluded and vnder colour of Euangelicall veritie be made to receaue pernitious and damnable heresyes as alas the more pitie hath miserably chaunced to our noble Realme of Englande vnder colour of bringing vs to truth leading vs awaye from the truth to the vtter decaye of all godlines and setting vp of counterfaite religion The wéede hath nowe ouer growen the corne euill hurtfull and soulequelling wéedes of heresie haue ouergrowen oppressed pulled downe to the grounde and vtterly choked the good corne of christen religion and all ecclesiasticall constitutions All you therefore that haue bene seduced and taken wéedes for wholsome flowers beware least with the stenche of suche rotten wéedes yée infecte your soule to euerlasting damnation The infallible truth is dayly opened vnto you The falshood is mightily conuinced as shall plainelye appeare in the Discourse héere folowing Stande no more in the defence of that which you may easily knowe and sée with your eyes if ye will not be wilfullye and obstinately blinde to be nothing but deceipt What doo I call it deceipt naye I cal it a most venimous poison to the soule yea and an hellishe draught of endlesse death Playe not the parte of a mad man of whom Horace writeth in the seconde booke of his Epistles that he was angrye with his frendes for that they had caused him to be healed of his phrenesie and restored to his wittes agayne Be not angrye that you may if you will be brought out of the fowle miste into the cléere ayre from darkenes to light from an horrible phrenesie to godly wisedome Folowe the wholsome counsell of Saint Paule in the fourth to the Ephesians Vt non simus amplius pueri qui fluctuemus circumferamur quouis vento doctrinae per versutiam hominum per astutiam qua nos adoriuntur vt imponant nobis That we be no longer children and fléete too and fro caried hither and thither with euerye blast of doctrine by the wilines and craftines of men wherwith they set vpon vs to deceiue vs There haue béene a great manye suche sprongen vp in our Realme of late which haue taught vs wronge Lessons Emendemus ergò in melius Let vs amend therfore The thirde propertie is that the shéepe doo folowe their Shepherde This propertie is of so great importance that without it the other two cannot auayle It is not ynough to knowe Christe to be our refuge our helpe and succoure It is not ynoughe with that also to heare Christe speaking to vs in his Churche except we folow Christ and his Churche and shewe our selues willingly to doo that which the Churche commaundeth vs We must fast when the Churche commaundeth vs and as it biddeth vs We must pray as the Churche instructeth vs We must doo those good woorkes that the Churche teacheth vs to doo In obeying the Churche we obey God if we be disobedient to the Churche we disobeye god For as Chrisostome sayeth vpon the firste Epistle to the Corinthians vt corpus caput vnus est homo ita vnum est ecclesia Christus As the body and the head is but one man so is Christe and his Church one thing Doo therefore as the wise man biddeth thée Audi disciplinam patris tui ne dimittas legem matris tuae Heare the discipline of thy father and forsake not the lawe of thy mother I meane thy mother the holye Churche whom as manye as forsake they forsake God also For as holy Ciprian writeth de simplicate praelatorum Habere non potest deum patrem qui ecclesiam non habet matrem He can not haue God to be his father that knoweth not the Churche for his mother Yée may sée here euidentlye that this holye man would haue vs to be obedient vnto and diligently to kéepe the ordinaunces of our fathers not to institute euery day newe fashions as men moste vnconstant and full of newe fangles The Lacedemonians are praysed that they suffered no straunge ware to be brought into their Citie whereby the Citizens might be effeminated and corrupted in their maners and for the same cause they extoll greatlye Licurgus which made the same law Now if the Lacedemonians were so serious obseruers of their olde lawes and customes what a shame shall this be to vs Christian men which were not taught of Licurgus but of Christe himselfe dayly to alter and chaunge not content with those rites and Ceremonyes that were ordeyned of auncient time out of memorie Irenaeus teacheth in his thirde booke against the

visible vnction Moyses himselfe was extraordinarilye called and sent of God approued by miracle as it appereth in the fourth Chapiter of Exodus And therfore the Apostle S Paule nameth Aaron and not Moises to signifye that all extraordinary vocations by miracles as Moyses was are nowe ceassed and that we must from hencefoorth be ordinarilye called by externall vnction as Aaron was When therfore the learned protestant shal be able to proue their iust and due vocation ordinarily or extraordinarilye to proceede of God and not onely of man I shall then yeelde and recant and not before Thirde signe token of false Prophetes heretikes and Schismatiks is that they being first departed from the catholike churche and secondarily not called doo forthwith al of them selues preache and teach contentiouslye and seditiously against the doctrine before time taught of the common knowen catholike churche of Christe as against the Sacraments of Christe his Churche by a flat denyall of manye of them against the reall presence of Christe his bodye in the holy Eucharist against the blessed sacrifice of the Masse propitiatorye both for the liue the deade against penaunce and worthy fruites therof by fasting watche prayer and all straightnes of life against vowes inuocation of Saintes prayer for soules departed and finally agaynst the churche it selfe flatlye denying that Christe hath here vpon the earth any Spouse or visible churche here to be heard speake perceaued or seene The Apostle S. Paule in admonition geuing vnto vs to beware of this sygne and token sayeth Doctrinis varijs et peregrinis nolite abduci Be not you led and caried awaye with these diuers and straunge doctrines so termed of Thapostle S. Paule because they are not agreing but contrary to the receaued and common knowen doctrine of Christ his catholike churche When therfore the learned Protestant s●al be able to proue that they and their congregations are not the raysers vp of these contentions and strifes by their preaching of these straunge doctrines but we that are members of the catholike Churche Then I will submit and recant and not before Fourth signe and token of false prophetes heretikes and schismatikes is Schisma in ecclesiam introducere To bring into the churche of Christe by their doctrine schisme diuision and seperatiō of one member from another and of the whole misticall body from the true heade Iesus Christe For whereas the health and saluation of Christe his flocke people doth moste chiefely consist in peace concorde and vnitie they therfore which by schisme doo deuide and disperse his flock and of one societie and felowship before do make many and diuers they innot sparing nor preseruing in vnitie the flock of Christe are become raue●●ng wolues Thapostle S. Paule knowing the great daunger and hurt vprising of schisme doth moste humblye beseeche vs with all diligent circumspection to auoyde the same saying Obsecro vos fratres per nomen domini nostri Iesu Christi vt idipsum dicatis omnes et non sint in vobis schismata sitis autem perfecti in eodem sensu et in eadem sententia I beseeche you brethren by the name of our Lorde Iesus Christe that ye all say one thinge and that there be no schismes among you but be perfect in one minde and one meaning Nowe if the learned protestant shal be able to proue that wheras about the time of three score yeres and aboue we were al not onlye here in this Realme but vniuersallye in all other Realmes professing Christe of one Churche of one fayth and religion and of one vnitie therein if he shal be able to proue that this late schisme whereby we are so deuided and dispersed that some are become Lutherans some Zuinglians some Caluinists some Puritans and Anabaptists did proceede from vs and from the common knowen Catholike Church of Christe and not whollye from their priuate Churche and congregations and of the deceptfull and false doctrine by them preached and taught I shall then stay no longer but yeeld and recant and not before Fyfte signe and token of false prophetes heretikes and schismatikes is disobedience Et non obedire sed resistere eis qui praesunt in ecclesia dei And not to obey but resist those which doo beare rule and gouerne in the church of God of the which sort of men the Apostle S. Paule geueth vs warning saying Quemadmodum Iamnes et Mambres restiterunt Moysi ita et hi resistunt veritati homines corrupti mēte reprobi circa fidem Like as Iamnes and Mambres did resist Moises euen so do these resist the truth being men of corrupt mind and reprobates in faith Now when the learned protestant shal be able to proue that this rebellion and disobedience to all Bisshops prelates and ecclesiasticall gouernours is to be found in the catholike churche and not in the priuate churche congregations of the protestantes Then I shall yeelde submit and recant and not before Sixte signe and token of false prophets heretikes and schismatikes is the ficklenes weak slippernes of errors heresies Quòd quaelibet haeresis prae catholicae fidei peepetua firmitate facile transit ac perit For that euerye heresye in comparison of the stabilitie and perpetual continuance and firmnes of the catholike fayth doth soone perish and passe away Thapostle S Peter in speaking of these false prophetes sayeth Magistri mendaces superducent sibi celerem perditionem et perditio eorum non dormitat These lying masters doo bring vppon them selues a quick and speedie ouerthrow and their destruction shall not be slacked nor slowed The truth of this testimonie is to be tryed by all sectaries and sortes of heretikes that euer haue bene as of the Nicolaites Arrians Donatists Maniches Pelagians Iouinists Nestorians Nouatians Sabellians and the rest of heretikes whose errors and heresyes being neuer so stoutly vpholdē by Emperors kinges and princes yet by generall councels and censures of Christe his catholike churche they had in fyne their iust condemnation and ouerthrowe What shoulde I here make mention of the Lutherans and protestants of our time When the Lutherans here in this Realme haue taken their iust ouerthrowe already for the great desyre the protestants had to preferre the doctrine of the Oecolampadians Suinglians and Caluinists The Suinglians and Caluinists with the rest sectaryes of all sortes are nowe here in this Realme at the very neere and like poynte they being nowe readye to yeelde vp the ghoste and to tylte vp their heeles for the great desyre the common and baser sorte of the people haue to be Precisians and Puritans And they being winked at of the Magistrats there be no small number of all degrees and sortes of men that doo further and fauour them in this their attempt to the great increase of thē It cannot therefore be denyed but that all sectaryes and heresyes are on this wise mouing sitting and euer passing from one secte to another without any long time of continuance

heresyes of Valentine and suche other whose wordes taken out of his fourth Chapter of the sayde booke I will briefely rehearse Si quae de aliqua modica quaestione disceptatio esset nonnè oporteret in antiquissimas recurrere ecclesias in quibus Apostoli conuersati sunt ab eis de praesenti quaestione sumere quod certum re liquidum est If any controuersie shoulde be of any question were it neuer so litle must it not be méete to haue our recourse vnto the moste auncient Churches in the which the Apostles were conuersant and of them to receaue the playne certaintie thereof It foloweth Quid autem si neque Apostoli quidem Scripturas reliquissent nobis nonnè oportebat ordinem sequi traditionis quam tradiderunt his quibus committebant ecclesias But what if the Apostles left nothing written of that matter must we not folow the tradition of them to whose gouernaunce they committed the Churches Here haue you the minde of Irenaeus who was néere vnto Christ his time for as S. Hierome testifyeth in an Epistle to one Theodora he was Disciple to Papias who was S. Iohn the Euangelists scholler He woulde haue men to be taught of Christe of his Apostles and their successours and not of euery one which rashelye and without lawfull authoritie taketh vpon him to be a teacher Christen men should be obedient to christen ordinaunces and folowe that doctrine that is alowed by them that are lawfully called and haue the censure of doctrine committed to them Such were the Apostles called and put in authoritie by Christe Suche were they to whom these agayne gaue the charge ouer anye faythfull congregation Suche are all they which haue so from time to time béene lawfully called by them that haue power to put others in authoritie and so succéeded in due order els Quomodò praedicabūt nisi mittantur Howe shall they preache except they be sent as it is written in the tenth to the Romanes and sent by them which haue authoritie to sende Did not S. Paule for that purpose leaue Titus in Crete Did he not also geue Timothie charge to laye handes to quickelye on no man To these that be thus lawfullye ordeyned and called to haue cure and charge of soules ye are bounde to geue an eare by these ye must be ruled in matters of religion as obedient children to their spiriritual fathers And this biddeth S. Hierome writing to Nepotian Esto subiectus pontifici tuo quasi animae parentem suspice Be subiect to thy Bishop reuerence him as thy soules father The same lesson teacheth Chrisostome in an Homilye De recipiendo Seueriano where he beginneth thus Sicuti capiti corpus cohaerere necessarium est ita ecclesiam sacerdoti principi populum As it is of necessitie that the body cleaue to the head so it is likewise of necessitie that the congregation cleaue to their Priest and spirituall ruler and the people to their prince And within a fewe wordes after he alleageth for the confirmation of this matter the Apostle writing thus to the Hebrewes in the thirtenth Chapter Obedite praepositis vestris obtemperate eis quia ipsi peruigilant pro vobis quasi pro animabus vestris rationem reddituri Obeye them that haue the ouersight of you and doo as they would haue you for they watch for your sakes as they which shall geue accoumptes for your soules This obedience doth our Sauiour require of all men saying Qui vos audit me audit He that heareth you heareth me This obedience to Christes Churche hath continued throughout all Christendome time out of minde And if the authoritie of the learned and holye fathers ought to beare swaye and preuayle as of right it ought to doo in déede Arrogantium enim hominum est maiorum suorum authoritatem aspernari se illis ingenio vel sapientia anteponere For it is the maner and propertie of proude arrogant persons to contemne the authoritie of their elders and to preferre themselues before themin wit or learning If the consent of all christen Regions should be regarded probabilia sayth Aristotle in the first Chapter of the firste booke of his Topikes quae videntur omnibus vel plurimis Those things are probable which all men or at the least the most part doo iudge to be so If the long continuaunce of time must be of importance In his enim as witnesseth S. Hilarie vpon the hundred and eyghtéene psalme tanquàm in coelo verbum dei permanet in quibus hoc verbum non offenditur In thē doth the word of God abide among whom that worde is not offended If these thrée I saye The authoritie of the learned Fathers The common consent of christian Regions The long continuaunce of time may be a sufficient testimonie for the veritie we haue the true Gospell and the true sense of it Our religion is the very christian religion The order of Ceremonyes that the Catholike Churche doth vse is the right order Our fasting and praying is according to the Scriptures Our Church is the true and lawfull spouse of Christ from the which as many as seperate them selues they are no shéepe of Christes folde they are reprobate persons they are the children of Beliall they are ympes of hell You know what order your fathers kept howe they liued and howe they beléeued You are not ignoraunt howe you haue béene brought vp instructed and trained in the lawes of Christe Whosoeuer goeth about to infringe or breake any part of that godly order of that auncient custome and laudable vsage he is an heretike an enemye to God a murtherer to mannes soule a disturber of the common wealth a subuerter of all honest discipline and therfore moste vnwoorthy to liue among men I haue hearde read and séene manye thinges yet can I not reade heare or sée any worlde more contaminate and proue to all kinde of vices then this our age is And howbeit afore our dayes haue béene in all times and ages men and women verye vitious and monstrous in their liuing yet then vertue was vertue and vice was vice But nowe in our corrupt time we haue lost the true names and vse of all thinges and vertue with vs is taken for vice and contrarily vice is coumpted for vertue They that be studious of modestie obseruers of temperancie and louers of sobrietie they be nowe a dayes called Pinchepennyes and suche that hunger droppeth out of their noses If any be vertuous folowers of the Catholike which is the true religion they be called Phariseys Papists The discrete mā he is called an hipocrite the small talker a foole and an ignorant person On the other side they that leade their liues in all kinde of ryote they be called hansome men men of the right making and suche as can tell howe to kéepe honest mennes companye Agayne the statelyer that one goeth the higher that he looketh and the stouter and malapertlier that he speaketh the more is

the right and auncient Catholike fayth For we that are the sheepe of Christe doo folow as touching our religiō the steppes that our fathers led before vs and as it were going vp vppon the ladder of Iacob Gen. 28. we mount by degree and degree I meane from yeere to yeere and from age to age vntill that we come to S. Saturim S. Denice S. Marcial and S. Gratian which were those that did firste teache the Catholike faith in Tholose in Paris and to those of Guyenna and Lorayne and so consequently to all the rest of the Saintes that firste did teache the Catholike fayth through all Christendome whom we doo call in iudgement before God to defend that fayth which they haue geuen vs from hande to hande they may call vppon the Apostles which sent them and the Apostles may direct thēselues to Christe who by the mouth of his moste louing Apostle doth commaunde vs to continue in that that was taught vs at the beginning 1. Ioan. 2. And so we shall continue and rest with the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost And if any body doth come to teache vs anye other doctrine then that which hath bene taught vs at the beginning I doo not saye written in booke but printed in our hearts that he be holden as an Anathema or an excommunicate person yea although it were an Angell of heauen The which doeth perswade vs not to receaue your newe doctrine or Gospell but to keepe our selues vnder the gouernaunce of our olde Pastours and Bishops without hauing any respect to their euill or good liues for as touching our faith and saluation that doth unport nothing The good and holye liues of Iesus Christe and his Apostles hath profited nothing neither to the obstinate Iewes nor to the vnbeleuing Gentiles Nor in the like case the depraued life of manye euil Bishops that haue bene at Rome and in other places haue not shut the dores of heauen against those that are true Catholikes and leade perticuler liues the which are two principall poyntes that doo quiet our consciences I meane the one that we beleue that that our Pastours the vniuersall Church haue beleued these thousande and fiue hundred yeres and the other that their euill liues cannot hurt vs For as the Apostle doth saye Euery man shall beare his owne bundell ¶ The .10 Chapter NOwe to turne vnto the taking of your accompts may it please you to shewe vs howe you haue folowed the steppes of the flocke of Christ according to the counsell that we gaue to his reasonable sheepe as we haue sayde before Who hath taught you the way that you doo folowe what doctours were your first tutors who hath taught you that the precious body of our Sauiour is not really in the Sacrament of the Aultare who hath taught the doctrine or if it be not grief vnto you heresy which you wold haue vs to receiue as a Gospel I know before hand that you wil alleage me Iesus Christe and his holy Apostles whose steppes you doo professe to folow preching euery wher that there is no difference betweene your Church or to say truth Sinagog the church of the Apostles But I pray Let me vnderstand by what means you canne ioyne your selues vnto the Churche of the Apostles seing that you condemne and cut off all the Christians that haue beene and are betweene you and them For to verifye this I will alleage no other but your owne workes for Caluin in his Institutions at the Treatise of the Supper of the Lord speaking of the oblation of the body of our Sauiour Christe as it was offered in olde time he doeth write punctually these wordes Caluinus in sua institutione tradita de Coena Domini I finde sayth he that those of olde time haue chaunged this fashion otherwise then the Institution of our Sauiour did require seing that their supper did represent a certaine spectacle of a straunge Inuention or at the least of a newe maner There is nothing more sure vnto the faythfull then for them to holde them selues vnto the pure ordinance of the Lorde by whom it was called a supper to the ende that onely his authoritie may be our rule Yet it is true that when I consider their good meaning and that their intent was neuer to derogate from the onely sacrifice of Christe I dare not condemne them of folye and yet I thinke that one cannot excuse them that they haue not somewhat fayled in the exteriour forme for they haue folowed more the Cerimonies of the Iewes then the order of Iesus Christe did permit And this is the point in which they ought to be resisted for they haue conformed to muche vnto the olde Testament not contenting themselues with the simple institution of Christe they haue to muche inclined themselues vnto the shadowed Ceremonies of the Iewes lawe These are Caluins words The Reader may by them see well howe this noble Reformer of the Gospell doeth correct al ages and Churches be they of Martyrs Confessors Doctours Interpreters Preachers or anye others from the Apostles time vnto our age yet doth he not deny but that hauing some regard of their simple ignorāce he is content to be so good to them as for this time not to condemne their error or impietie because that which they did was with a good intent but yet fearing that the bearing thē to muche fauour woulde trouble his conscience he geueth sentence against them saying that they ought to be resisted because they were not content with the onely institution of Christe but rather that in this case they haue folowed the shadows of the Iewes Nowe for my part I thinke Caluin and his felowes so scrupulous that they would not ioyn themselues vnto persons that are spotted with Iewish Ceremonies And because that all maner of people howe wise soeuer they were frō the Apostles time vntil our dayes haue fallen into this error he doth counsel my masters his deformed folowers according to his sentence to folowe none of them at all but only the pure worde of the Lord preached by Iesus Christe and by his aboue mentioned Apostles ¶ The .11 Chapter YOu doo knowe very well that S. Paule doth compare many times the misticall body of the Churche vnto a natural body seing that Iesus Christ is the head vnto whō the body is ioined by ioints bones sinews If one should then demaund of you howe the feete are ioined to the head you wil answere me by the legs which are next vnto the feete And if I aske you how the legs are ioined to the hed you wil answere by the ioints and by the reins of the back so consequently frō member to member I do beleue that we are al of one accorde that the ende of the world is at hande and so consequentlye that we are the lowermost part of the body so that we are the feete or the legges Then my masters you that haue made so fine an