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A03398 A suruay of the pretended holy discipline. Contayning the beginninges, successe, parts, proceedings, authority, and doctrine of it: with some of the manifold, and materiall repugnances, varieties and vncertaineties, in that behalfe Bancroft, Richard, 1544-1610. 1593 (1593) STC 1352; ESTC S100667 297,820 466

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man shall oppose against my exposition the authority of certayne of the aunciente fathers ad verbum dei prouoco I doe appeale to the word of God and I desire that the reasons which I haue broughte for it may be refelled How crancke hee is with the auncient fathers but not a word of M. Caluin And his reason as I take it was this bicause M. Caluins authority seruinge him much better for the credite of diuers Disciplinary positions then all the auncient fathers doe hee is more desirous for the continuance of his reputation then of all theirs A fourth matter there is also concerning these widdowes which is of the greatest importance and is yet no better agreed vpon then as you haue heard of the rest Be it that in the Apostles times there were such widdowes as they affecte yet the question is whether it be necessary that now there should bee such church-officers or new colleges of widdowes set vp in euery parish to looke to the poore that be sicke or not Some of their proctors doe wauer much in this point some are resolute for them some are as resolute to my vnderstanding against them First I pray you let M. Cartwright speak his pleasure Saint Paule reckoneth vp all the ordinary and perpetuall offices of the Church of the Doctor of the Pastor of the Deacon of the Elder and leaueth not out so much as the Widdow Againe Now there is not so great vse of these widdowes with vs c. Part of the necessity why they were first founded grew both by the multitude of strangers c. and by the great heat of those East countries wherevppon the washing and supplinge of feete was required Againe For asmuch as there are poore which are sicke in euery church I doe not see a better order can bee deuised c. if there can bee any widdowes gotten And againe I conclude that if such may bee gotten we ought to kepe that order in the church In good time It is a very substantiall conclusion And is he come to this If such can be gotten Hath God appointed such officers to be in euery parishe as cannot be gotten He told vs before in the behalfe of his Elders as you shall heare againe the thirde time that when men are called to a lawfull and profitable calling and especially to a publicke calling God doth powre his giftes on that person which is called so plentifully that he is as it were soddainely made a new man Whereuppon he inferreth that doe but once make choice of such Elders as he doth after and God will by and by make them fitte persons to execute their offices And may wee not then also affirme by the Analogy of the same doctrine that when God appointeth an ordinary and perpetuall office in his Church he doth also prouide either ordinarily or extraordinarily that there shall be alwaies some to vndertake it What prerogatiue haue his Elders aboue his Widdowes that God hauing appointed them both alike to beare a continuall office in his Church the one sort should be so miraculously prouided for euen vppon the soddaine and the other be suffered so farre to weare out as that they cannot bee gotten May it not be as truely saide sette vp the Eldership in euery parishe and God will prouide Widdowes as set it so vp in the most Clownish parish in England and God wil presently by inspiration make the poor husbandmen Carters Thatchers and Dawbers newly chosen to be Elders such meet and able men to gouern the church as the keies of the kingdom of Heauen may be safely committed into their hands Whether through these and such like other conceites or vpon what grounds els I know not but there is a second sorte of Disciplinary Widdowistes that are very farre growen past Cartwrights Ifs. One that writeth the defence of the godlye Ministers as hee intituleth them hath in that Treatise framed tenne argumentes of a wonderfull power as many haue supposed Wherein hee al'wayes comprehendeth the widdowes nameth them as necessary partes of the forme of that Church-gouernement which Christ and his Apostles haue appointed to be the ordinary and perpetuall platforme for the guiding and gouerninge of the Church vntill the ende of the world and maketh them by such force as his argumentes haue as necessary for the ordinary continuance of them as eyther Pastor Doctor Elders or men Deacons The learned discourser likewise agreeth with this Defence-maker where hauing spoken of Widdowes amongst the rest of their Church-officers and of all their offices he saith that beeing instituted by the spirite of God for the necessary vse of the Church which vse still continueth they ought also to be retayned amōngst vs. I may not here also omit the author of the Fruitfull sermon who expoūdeth so pretily the similitude which S. Paul vseth of that mysticall body whereof as I take it Christ is the head that he excludeth the whole Church from being any members of it except they bee eyther Pastors Doctors Elders Deacons or Widdowes A member saith he is such a parte of the bodye as hath receiued from the head some particular and necessary guifte to helpe and benefite the whole body and euery member therof And so he reckoneth vs his members as I haue sayd His meaning therein is this as I thinke that the rest of the body is but as it were a rude lumpe which is to bee framed and fashioned by the sayd members by euery one according to the office of it And after for the necessity vz. that euery one of his sayde members no moe no fewer should allwayes continue in the body he vseth these woordes If nature lacke any one member be it neuer so base if it bee but one toe shee is sorry shee is grieued she lamenteth shee iudgeth her selfe maimed yea shee would redeeme it with the perill of loosinge the rest such is her loue and desire to appear in her beauty perfection As though he should haue said that he and his fellowes are so far bewitched with the desire of their Eldershippes that rather then they will misse their Widdowes euen the meanest members of it they care not to hazard the being of the whole Church Vnto this fruictfull sermoner mentioned I will adde one of Fenners inuincible arguments because it enforceth the sayd similitude of the members of the body so syllogistically Whatsoeuer officers are ordinary mēbers of the Church are sette into the same of God for ordinary c perpetuall dueties with ordinary and perpetuall giftes wherein they are commanded to abide and wherewith the Church is commaunded to bee content Those are ordinary perpetuall and the best for no man may remoue the members of Christs body hauing ordinary giftes and actions for the perpetuall vse of the body But these of Doctors Pastors Elders Deacons Church-seruants are ordinarye members of the Church are set into the same of God for ordinary duties of teaching
that for as much as Christ is neuer seuered from his body nor from any part of it and is able and dooth performe that vvherefore he is called head vnto all his Church therefore there is no need of any subordinate head ouer any particular Church or as he sayth there can be none As if a man should reason thus Christ is our sauiour our priest our prophet and our king Christ is our sheapheard our doctor and our archbishop Christ is neuer absent from his church nor euer will be and he is able to performe that wherefore he is called our sauiour our priest our prophet our pastor our doctor our bishop our archbishop our archfeeder therefore we need no priests pastors doctors bishops or archbishops neither ought there to be any such subordinate or ministeriall meanes allowed of or permitted for the sayd benefits of building teaching and gathering of the church The collections in my opinion are both alike Againe by the same phrase of speech that Christ as mediator is called by him els-where the head of euery particular church and in that respect euery particular church is tearmed his body So Christ as he is the sonne of God only to graunt him for a minute so much being the head of euery particular kingdome it may be said that euery particular kingdome is his body Now then whereas he reasoneth thus very grauely in his owne iudgement If the church be the body of Christ and of the ciuile magistrat it should haue tvvo heads vvhich vvere monstrous Why may not I in like sort make this inference if the common-wealth be the body of Christ and of the ciuile magistrat it should haue two heads which were mōstrous which collection being ridiculous by his own phrase offspeech his said argumēt is also ridiculous For my part certainly I do thinke that the word heard as it is yeelded to christiā princes signifying nothing els as I sayd but a cheefe ruler I see no cause then why it should be a more monstrous thing for thē to be subordinat rulers of the church vnder christ then to see princes thrust downe and six or seuen base persons a malster a brewer a baker a mason a smith a butcher a tinker and such like aduanced to that so high an authoritie Well as our prouerbe sayth Be it as it bee may and that is no banning If Princes will bee thus dallyed withall let them for me and they shall bee the first that will repent it But vvhat should they do when they heare their authoritie so substantially impugned by so worthie persons with such inuincible arguments such demonstrations such collections such concurrencie in their opinions such concord such notable agreement together in their grounds for that purpose Indeed you will say so when you shall see how after they haue foiled princes in such sort as it hath bene declared they intitle themselues and their wise and worshipfull Eldermen to their authoritie You cannot imagine mens bodies to be faster tied together with the strongest rope that euer was made of sand then their minds and iudgements are fast lincked and vnited in this matter As now it shall partly appeare after I haue layd before you three or foure of their new quircks very pertinent to this place some of them haue bene alreadie touched but you cannot heare a good thing too often They affirme if I can vnderstand them that euery wel ordered parish hauing an Eldership in it is the perfect bodie of Christ that Christ is properly to be called as well the head of euery such particular body or church as he is of the Catholicke church Against whome by the way I might oppose a chiefe diuine of New stadium a Consistorian towne in the Palsgraues countrie who sayth that as the Church is called the body of Christ it properly signifieth Solos electos the elect onely and that all particular churches as the members of the Catholike church do make but one body of Christ vvhereof hee is to bee called especially the head But I will not stand vpon these points onely I touch them that it might still appeare how well they agree together Then to proceed The same men likewise affirme that euery one of their mentioned well ordered parishes is a representation and as it vvere a liuely portraiture of the vvhole or Catholicke church and that singularum ecclesiarum idem est ius euery such parish Catholicke church hath equall authoritie no more one then another And now I draw nere to the pith of this matter For as touching the gouernment of euery one of these particular bodies of Christ or of euery one of these demie catholicke churches they hold that princes being iustly dispossessed their pastors doctors and aldermen are by right Christs immediat and subordinat lieutenants or vicars generall But now for as much as our sauiour Christ say some of them is a priest a prophet and a king and all in respect that he is both God and man our only mediator and redeemer Here beginneth a new skitmish from which of these his dignities they must deriue their interest whether their said vice-gerents are to challenge their soueraigntie from Christ as he is a priest from Christ as hee is a prophet or frō Christ as he is a king For as the great learned clearke that made the booke of ecclesiastical and ciuile policie affirmeth vvhosoeuer is to be called Christs vicar hee must be so tearmed either in respect of all those his three offices or of tvvo of them or of one at the least It hath bene commonly held heretofore that Christ taking vpon him the ministerie of the gospell to preach and teach the same did ordaine his Apostles and disciples to ioine with him in that part of his priestly office In regard whereof it hath also bene defended against the papists that euery lawfull minister is as much the vicar of Christ or his substitute to teach his people as the bishop of Rome and that they ought all of them equally when they preach the word pray for the people or administer the sacraments to be receiued heard and intertained as Christs embassadors Christs ministers euen as though Christ himself in his own person did presently here vpon earth execute these offices Besides it is vrged by the Counterpoizer many other that Christ hauing translated the Iewes Sanedrim into his church he hath appointed vnto vs for the Ievves priests our pastors and for their teaching Leuits our doctors c. Whereby it followeth that if the priests of the old law were Christs vicars as he was their priest the pastors ought so to be in the time of the gospel But the excellēt politian he vseth the matter in such sort as by no means the ministers of the word may haue any tenure of their offices vnder christ as he is priest Ne ipsi quidē pastores erunt Christi sacerdotis vicarij quod tamen falso