by God therefore wee saye there are so manie heades of Churches as there are gouernours of countreys So that you sée the magistrate to be the head and chief gouernour of a particular church in this respect that it is a visible societie and must haue besides the spirituall an externall gouernment also whereof bicause the ciuill Magistrate is the head and chief therefore it can not be therin established without the ciuil magistrate Your spare speches for the authoritie of the Magistrate in the gouernment of the Church I will note in a seuerall place by themselues and therfore doe I the lyghtlyer passe them ouer in this place In the meane tyme this is no good argument to saye that the Magistrate is but a member of the Churche therefore he is not the heade and chiefe gouernoure thereof in earth for the head though it be the chiefe yet is it a parte of the bodie But you still confounde the visible and inuisible Churche of Christe the spirituall and externall gouernment of the same which confusion maye make you seeme to say something to suche as doe not diligently consider it when in very déede you say nothing to the ouerthrowe of any thing that I haue answered The Churche may be established without the magistrate touching true faith and the spirituall gouernment of it by Christe in the hearte and conscience of man How y t church may be established without a Magistrate but not touching the visible societie and the externall gouernment Upon this confusion also is that grounded whiche followeth that the Churche in the respect of Christ the head is a Monarchie c. For when I sayde that the state of the Churche was popular in the Apostles tyme I spake of the outward forme shewe and gouernment of it which therefore I call popular bycause the Churche it selfe that is the whole multitude had interest almost in euery thing especially whylest the Churche yet remained at Ierusalem I knowe that all these thrée kyndes of gouernmentes maye bée mixte together after dyuers sortes but yet the state of gouernment is named according to that whiche moste ruleth and beareth the greatest sway as when matters are moste commonly gouerned by the consent of the more parte of the people the state is called popular when by diuers of the best and wysest it is called optimorum status when by one it is called a Monarchie as in thys Realme in the Courte of Parliamente althoughe all the states be represented yet bycause the iudgemente confirmation and determination resteth in the Prince therefore the state is neyther Aristocratie nor Democratie but a Monarchie Euen so in the Apostles time especiallye as I haue sayde whylest the Churche remayned at Hierusalem thoughe they myghte be counted Optimates yet bycause moste thyngs in gouernmente were doone by the consente of the people therefore the state for that tyme was popular You saye that I shoulde haue shewed howe thys difference of hauyng a Christian Magistrate and hauyng none oughte to bryng in a diuersitie in the choyse of the Pastor by the churches I haue shewed you before the reasons of it And nowe I adde this that for as muche as the Magistrate is the chiefe and principall Gouernoure of the Churches vnder Christe and oughte to haue a speciall care and regarde to and for the same It is not méete that anye thyng touching the gouernmente of the Churches or any publyke function perteyning therevnto shoulde bée otherwyse doone than he shall thynke conuenient and profitable for the present state of it And therefore well sayeth M. Musculus in his common places titu de verbi ministris Musculus It is not conueniente that those thinges whyche are publikely to bee doone or which concerne the people subiecte vnto them or to bee shorte are suche as concerne Religion and in that respecte perteyne vnto them excepte wee will saye with the fantasticall Anabaptistes that Christians may not bee Magistrates should be done without the consent and knowledge of the ciuile Magistrate And againe wherefore for the condition of tyme necessitie required that the Magistrates and Princes by the meanes of a fewe men which were of excellent iudgement and had a care that the Church of Christ should be prouided for might herevnto be induced that they might appoint faithfull and learned Pastours ouer their subiects And titulo de magistratibus speaking of the Ciuil magistrate he sayth Firste that he shoulde place ministers of Churches where they are wanting whether he chooseth them himselfe or confirmeth them whiche are chosen of others by his commaundement For it is not conuenient that any man should take vpon him anye publike offices in the Church without the authoritie of the publike magistrate But you will saye it was otherwise in the primitiue Churches in whiche the prelates of the Churches were chosen of the ministers and the people I answere Suche was then the state of the Churches that the ministers were not otherwise to be chosen bicause they had not a Christian magistrate if you call backe the manners of those tymes first call backe the conditions and state of them also The Prince hath to sée that all thyngs be doone in the Churche orderly and profitably and therfore hath he the altering and changing of suche elections Your offering of an hundreth differences betwene a persecuted Churche and that whiche is in peace shall goe with that bragge whiche you vsed Fol. 22. where you offered twentie to one c. But to what purpose make you this offer the more differences there are betwéene them the more is my cause iustifyed But you will be bolde to shewe meehow that if it were lawfull to breake the order of God c. and I will also be as bolde to answere your reasons seuerally Chap. 6. the. 6. Diuision T. C. Pag. 36. Sect. 1. In the tyme of persecution a churche chooseth an vnlearned minister or one that is wicked in lyfe howesoeuer it be he is vnfit the Churches rounde aboute by their ministers or Elders admonishe this churche of her faulte and moue to correcte it the Churche will not by no meanes be admonished what can now the other churches doe in the tyme of persecution if they excommunicate the whole churche it is a harde matter and yet if they maye doe that there is all they can doe the euill is not remedied which may be easily taken away where there is a godly Magistrate and the Churche as is before sayd compelled to a better choyse So you see that there are * This is but one and yet none in deede for the case you put is verie vnlikely se the tyme you speake of inconueniences in the choosing of the Pastor and other the gouernours of the churche by the churche in the tyme of persecution which are not in the tyme of peace vnder a christian Magistrate Io. Whitgifte This is your only reason to proue that in a Churche persecuted it is méeter for the
And it is absurde to say that the Ministers nowe with the helpe of the Magistate can laye surer foundations of the churche or builde more cunningly or substancially than the Apostles could which were the maister builders of the church of God and as for the consūmation of the body of the church and the beautie of it seyng it consisteth in Iesus Christ which is the head that is alwayes ioyned vnseparably in all times of the crosse and not the crosse wyth his body which is the church I can not see why the churches vnder persecution should not be established hauing both the foundation and the nethermost partes as also the toppe hyghest parte of the churche as well as those which haue a christian Magistrate If in deede the Magistrate whom God haue sanctified to be a ourse vnto his churche were also the head of the same then the churche coulde not be established without the Magistrate but we learne that althoughe the godly (a) The Magistrat is head of the common wealth and but a mēber of the Church by T. C. his iudgement Magistrate be the head of the common wealthe and a great ornament vnto the churche yet he is but a member of the same The churche may be established without the Magistrate and so that all the worlde and all the deuils of hell can not shake it but it can not be in quiet in peace and in outwarde suretie without a godly Magistrate And therefore the churche in that respect and suche lyke prayseth God and prayeth for the Magistrate by the which it enioyeth so singular benefites Therevpon you conclude that the churche was then popular whiche is as vntrue as the former parte For the churche is gouerned wyth that kynde of gouernment which the Philosophers that wryte of the beste common wealthes affirme to be the best For in respecte of Christe the head it is a Monarchie and in respecte of the auncientes and pastoures that gouerne in common and wyth like authoritie amongst them selues it is an Aristocratie or the rule of the beste menne ▪ and in respecte that the people are not secluded but haue theyr interest in Churche matters it is a Democratie or a popular estate An image whereof appeareth also is the pollicie of this realme for as in respecte of the Queene hir Maiestie it is a Monarchie so in respect of the most honourable Councell it is an Aristocratie and hauyng regarde to the Parliament whiche is assembled of all estates it is a Democratie But you shoulde haue shewed howe thys difference of hauing a Christian Magistrate and hauing none oughte to bryng in a diuersitie in the choyse of the Pastor by theyr churche it were not harde if one woulde spende his tyme so vnprofitably to fynde out an hundred differences betweene a persecuted Churche and that whiche is in peace but seeyng you can shewe me no reason why the Churche maye not choose her ministers as well vnder a godlie magistrate as vnder a tyrant I wyll be bold to shewe you howe that if it were lawefull to breake the order of God it were meeter in the tyme of persecution that the election shoulde be in some others discreate and learned persons handes to bee made without the consente of the churche than in that tyme when there is a godlie magistrate and that it is then most conuenient to be chosen by the churche Io. Whitgifte There was then no Churche established in any Ciuill gouernment bycause How the Church was not established in the Apostles time the Magistrates did then persecute and not defende the Churche The Churche in the Apostles tyme was established in doctrine moste perfectly in discipline gouernment and ceremonies as was conuenient for that tyme and as the Church maye be in tyme of persecution but the tyme was not yet come wherof the Prophete Esay 49. sayde Kings shall be thy nursing fathers and Princes shall be thy nursing mothers therfore it was not established in any ciuill gouernment neyther did it so publikcly and openly shewe it selfe The Gospell and the Church was in Queene Maries tyme here in Englande but it was persecuted not established not maynteyned not allowed of nor professed by the publike magistrate and the lawes of the lande and therefore of necessitie a greate difference betwixte the gouernmente of it then and the gouernmente of it nowe the outwarde shewe of it then and the outward shewe of it nowe the placing of Ministers then and the T. C. often offendeth in ignorance of the Eiench ▪ placyng of them nowe My meanyng and my woordes be playne you needed not to haue offended agayne as almoste contynually you doe in the ignorance of the Elench whylest you doo not reason nor answere ad idem If you speake of the Churche as it is a communion and societie of the faithfull and elect onely and of the gouernment thereof as it is onely spirituall then is it moste certaine that the Churche is as thoroughly established as perfectely gouerned as gloriously decked and beautified in the tyme of persecution as it is or can be vnder the ciuill Magistrate But if you speake of the externall societie of the Churche which comprehendeth bothe good and euill and of the outwarde gouernment of it then neyther it is nor can be in suche perfecte state nor so thoroughly established or outwardly adorned in the tyme of the Crosse as it is and may be vnder a Christian Prince The ignorance of thys distinction of the Church and of the gouernment thereof of the whiche I haue spoken more at large in an Tract 2. other place causeth you to fall into so many and so grosse erroures concernyng the same You saye that if the Ciuile Magistrate were the head of the Churche c. Christe The Prince head of the Church onely and properly is the head of the Churche for it is hys body but yet in the respecte of the externall societie of the same and the Supreme authoritie that is gyuen of GOD to the Prince ouer his people in all causes he maye bée also in that respecte called the head of the Churche c. Chrysostom in Epistol ad Philip. Homel 13. gyueth thys name to certaine women Chrysost. of whome he sayeth thus Videntur mibi istae mulieres caput fuisse Ecclesiae quae illic erat These women seeme to mee to haue bin the head of the Churche which was there And therfore a learned mā answering Hosius who reproued Vergerius for mouing y t king Iaco. Andraea ▪ of Polonia to take vopen hym to be the head of that Churche sayeth on thys sorte As the Churche of Christ in earth is but one bodie so hathe it but one head as the Apostle teacheth which is Iesus Christe who is always present with his Churche and gouerneth it with his holie spirite c. but bicause this Church being visible is not onely ruled by the worde but by the sworde of the magistrate also appointed
that all other be vnder him haue their authoritie from him But this name may also aptly be giuen vnto 〈◊〉 that haue the ouersight of other bishops in the externall gouernment of the Churche in the which as I haue sayd Magistrates be called Gods Christ is the only head of the Church if by the head you vnderstande that which giueth How Christ is the onely head of the churche the bodie lyfe sense and motion For Christ only by his spirite doth giue life and nutriment to his bodie He only doth poure spirituall blessings into it and doth inwardly direct and gouerne it Likewise he is only the head of the whole Church for that title can not agree to any other But if by the head you vnderstande an xternall ruler or gouernour of any particular nation or Church in which signification head is vsually taken then I doe not perceiue why the Magistrate maye not How the ma gistrat 〈◊〉 be called 〈◊〉 of the church as well be called the head of the Churche that is the chiefe gouernour of it in the externall policie as he is called the head of the people and of the common weal h. And as it is no absurditie to say that the ciuill magistrate is heade of the common wealth next and immediatly vnder God for it is moste true so is it none to say that vnder God also he is head of the Churche that is chiefe gouernour as I haue before sayde Constantine in an Epistle that he writeth to the people of Alexandria Bishops called heades of churches and yet y e Popes supremacie i vsurped as it is reported by Athanasius Apol. 2. calleth Bishoppes Ecclesiarum capita the heades of their Churches And yet is the Popes Supremacie vsurp d bothe bicause it taketh from Magistrates that whiche is due vnto them and also vsurpeth the authoritie of Chryste in remittyng and retaynyng synnes in making Lawes contrarye to Gods Lawes whyche he sayeth be necessarie to Saluation in makyng hys Supremacie a matter of Saluation and in chalengyng authoritie ouer the whole Churche of Christ and an hundreth suche lyke presumptions The Archbishop being both vnder God and his Prince hath his name onely in respecte of his authoritie in certaine causes aboue other Bishops and that but in one prouince or kingdome only neyther can eyther the name or vse of it as it is in this Church offende any but such as be offended with all superiors and think that none ought to be better than themselues Chap. 1. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag. 62. Sect. 1. 2. In the primitiue church the * name of a Pope was honest was al one with the name of a good Tertull. lib. de 〈◊〉 Cyp. li. 27. Hierome in his epistles to Augustine pastor but nowe by the ambition of the man of Rome it is so defyled that euery good man shaketh at the very mention of it The name of a tyrant was fyrst honorable and the same with a king and yet through crueltie and vniust rule of certaine it is become nowe so hatefull that no vpright and iust dealing Prince none that gouerneth with equitie and to the commoditie of his subiectes woulde beare to be called tyranne wherby it may appeare that it is not for nought that we doe stande of these names Io. Whitgifte Papa signifieth a father and was in tymes paste common to all Bishops but nowe it is proper to the bishop of Rome and therefore hated for his sake whome it nowe signifieth So tyrannus sometyme signified a king generally no e it signinifyeth A lawfull name maye remaine though it hath bene abused a cruell king and a bloudie gouernoure and therefore also abhorred But an Archbishop though the persons at sometime haue degenerated yet the name hath continued in the same signification and therfore the reasen is nothing lyke except you wil also for the lyke cause cōdemne the name of a Bishop or of a king for there haue bene many euill men called by the name of bishops and many tyrants by the name of kings and yet the names neuer the worsse If names shoulde be chaunged so ofte as they be abused some had nede to haue an office only to inuent new names There was a certaine kinde of heretikes that called themselues Apostolike and yet the name of an Apostle is neuer the worse A lawfull name of a lawfull office may remaine together with the office howesoeuer before tyme it hath bin abused Chap. 1. the. 6. Diuision T. C. Pag. 62. Sect. 2. Nowe if the names ought to be odious being both horribly abused and also * Petitio principii for you haue not yet proued this forbidden by our Sauior Christ the things themselues must be in greater hatred the vnlawfulnesse whereof may thus appeare Io. Whitgifte This is a manifest petition of the principle and in no pointe as yet proued But let vs heare the reasons why the office should be condemned Chap. 1. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 62. Sect. 3. First of all the ministerie is by the word of God and heauenly and not left to the wil of men to Scriptures willingly falsified ▪ to make them serue his turne deuise at their pleasure as appereth by that whych is noted of S. Iohn where the * The Phariseys made false arguments and so do you in fo owing them Phariseys cō ming to S. Iohn Baptist after he had denyed to be eyther Chryst or Elias or an other prophet * The Phariseys made false arguments and so do you in fo owing them conclude if thou be neither Christ nor Elias nor of y e Prophets why baptizest thou whych had ben no good argument if S. Iohn might haue ben of some other function thā of those which were ordinarie in the churche and instituted of God And therfore S. Iohn to establish his singular and extraordinarie function alledgeth the worde of God whereby appeareth that as it was not lawfull to bring in any strange doctrine so it was not lawfull to teach the true doctrine vnder the name of any other function than was instituted by God Io. Whitgifte This is your fyrst argument the Phariseys comming to S. Iohn Baptist after he had denyed to be eyther Christ or Elias or an other Prophet conclude if thou be neyther Chryste nor Elias nor of the Prophets why baptizest thou Ergo there may be no Archbishops which is your meaning But least you shoulde thinke that I cauill I will vse your owne conclusion which is this Ergo there was no other ordinarie function in the Churche This argument hath neyther head nor foote forme nor matter is this your exquisitenesse The disordered argument of y e Replier in Logike First your antecedent is vntrue and builded vpon the false allegation of the Scripture For the Phariseys doe not say vnto him If thou bee neyther Christ nor Elias nor of the Prophets but these be the wordes of the text If thou bee not
learnedly and truly written agaynst the common aduersaries of this Booke among whome there is one that wrote a Booke Entituled A sparing restraynt of many lauishe vntruthes which M. Doctor Harding doth chalenge in the first Article of my Lorde of Sarisburies Replye The A sparing re trayne Author of that booke writeth thus O M. Harding turne agayne your writinges examino your authorities consider your Councels applie your examples looke if any line be blameable in our seruice and take holde of your aduantage I thinke M. Iewell will accept it for an Article And a little after Our seruice is good and godly euery title grounded on holy Scriptures and with what face do you call it darkenesse This was his opinion then of our seruice And it both was then and is now my full perswasion and I will God willing performe that against you which he offred in M. Jewell his name agaynst Harding Your othnesse to enter into this fielde is but dissembled your continuall barking The Repliet his wordes contrary to his deedes agaynst the state and forme of this Church of England doth conuince you of the contrarie Neyther haue you any respect or regarde for giuing occasion o euill speach to the Papistes much lesse of prouoking your adherentes to vnduetifull speaches as you pretend your booke tending wholly to the contrary Chap. 2. the. 6. Diuision T. C. Pag. 106. Sect. 3. Notwithstanding my dutie of defending the truth loue which I haue first towardes God and then towards my countrie constrayneth me being thus prouoked to speake a few wordes more particularly of the forme of prayer that when the blemishes thereof do appeare it may please the Queenes inaiestie hir honorable councell with those of the Parliament whom the Lorde hath vs o as singular instrumentes to d liuer this realme from the hote fornace and yron yoke of the popish Egipte to procure also that the corruptions which we haue brought from them as those with which we being so deepely died and stayned haue not so easily shaken of may be remoued from amongst vs to the ende that we beyng necrclicr both ioyned vnto the sinceritie of the gospell and the ollicie of other reformed Churches may thereby be ioyned nearer with the Lord and may be se te so farre from Rome that both we may comfort our selues in the hope that we shall neuer returne thither againe and our aduersaries which desire it and by this to much agreement with them and to little with the reformed Churches hope for it may not onely be deceyued of their expectation but also being out of all hope of that which they desire may the soner yeelde themselues vnto the truth wherevnto they are now disobedient Io. Whitgifte What dutie can there be in defacing a knowne and receaued truth what loue in flaundering your countrie vniustly and renting it in pieces with sectes and Schismes and prouoking the subiectes to haue mislikyng of their Magistrates and such as be placed in authoritie ouer them these be but clokes to couer an euill and vngodly purpose If you shall be able to shewe any suche blemishes in the booke of Common prayers they shall not be couered for me but if not than are you not a man to be credited I haue tolde you M. Caluines and M. Gualters opinion touching the ambitious Sup̄ra Cap. t e 13. Diuisi morositie of such as would haue all Churches framed after the example of some one and nowe I tell you agayne that there is no cause why this Churche of Englande eyther for truth of doctrine sinceritie of publike diuine seruice and other pollicie should giue place to any church in Christendome and sure I am that we are as 〈◊〉 ioyned with the Lorde our God as the members are to the bodie and the bodie to the head Our aduersaries haue o such hope vpon any suche occasion as you pretende if The aduersaries hope is in contention their hope be any it is especially in your contentions Wherein do we agrée with the Papistes or wherein do we dissent from the reformed Churches with these we haue all poynts of doctrine and substance common from the other we dissent in the most parte both of doctrine and ceremonies From what spirite come these bolde and vntrue speaches Chap. 2. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 106. Sect. 4. And as for the Papistes triumphe in this case I shall not greatly neede to feare it ▪ ring that their discordes and contentions are greater a d that our stryfe is 〈◊〉 we 〈◊〉 b arther from them For the other that professe the Gospell I will desire in the name of God that they abuse not my labour to other ende than I bestowe it and that they eepe hemselues in theyr callinges committe the matter by prayer vnto the Lorde leauing to the ministers of the worde of God and to the magistrates that which apperteyneth vnto them Io. Whitgifte It is true of the Papistes but they deale in their controuersies more circumspectly and warely though they dissent in matters of farre greater importaunce and in the chiefe poyntes of their owne Religion To the professours of the Gospell you giue better Councell than you haue taken your selfe and you shewe an example contrary to your wordes and therefore how shall they beléeue you But now to the matter for hitherto you haue vttered nothing but woordes Chap. 2. the. 8. Diuision T. C Pag. 106. Sect. vlt. To come therfore to touche this matter I answere that there is fault in the matter and fault in the forme In the matter for that there are things there that ought not to be and things there are wanting in the order that should be Of the firste sorte is that we may euermore be defended The collect of Trinitie Sunday from all aduersitie Io. Whitgifte The first fault that you finde in the matter of prayer is a portion of the Collect of Trinitie Sunday wherein we pray That we may euermore be defended from al aduersitie And is this the matter you mislike let vs then consider your reason Chap. 2. the. 9. Diuision T. C. Pag. 107. Sect. 1. Nowe for as much as there is no promise in the scripture that we should be free from all ad ersitie and that euermore it scemeth that this prayer might haue bene better conceyued being no prayer of faith or of the which we cā assure our selues that we shal obteyne it For if it be sayd that y the worde aduersitie is meante all euill we knowe that it hath no such signification neyther in this tongue of oures neyther in other tongues which vse the same worde in common with vs but that it signifieth trouble vexation and cala tie from all the which we may not desire alwayes to be deliuared And whatsoeuer can be alleaged for the defense of it yet euery one that is not contentio s may see that it needeth some caution or exception Io. Whitgifte I thinke no man will
abused both by them and you The Apostle vseth the same maner of spéeche speaking of the obedience of wiues towards their husbands Vxores subditae estote proprijs viris sicuti decet in Domino VViues be subiect vnto your owne Col. 3. husbands as it behoueth you in the Lord. And yet you will not say that the gouernment of the husbande ouer his wife is onely spirituall And therefore howsoeuer you ally out the matter with saying that S. Paule heere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ascribeth this vnto the ecclesiasticall gouernours yet it will not serue your turne for he ascribeth it also to those that be ciuill The ecclesiasticall gouernours haue all their whole care set vpon that onely whych perteyneth to the lyfe to come True it is and to the same ende ten eth the ciuill gouernment which they doe exercise as I haue tolde you before Chap. 1. the. 9. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 230. Sect. 4. In the. 1. Tim. 5. verse 2. he willeth Timothie to exhorte the elder vvomen as mothers the yonger as sisters whervpon you conclude thus Elder women must be exhorted as mothers the yonger as systers with al purenesse Ergo the gouernmēt of y e church must be spirituall T. C. Pag. 167. Lin. 5. And to this ende also is alleaged by the Admonition the place of Tim. wherein the Apostle teacheth 1. Tim. 5. part of the ecclesiasticall discipline whych the minister may vse to consist in reprehensions and rebukes which must be tempered according as the estate and age of euery one doth require Their meaning is not as M. Doctor doth vntruely surmise to shut out the ciuil Magistrate or to debarre him of punishing the wicked but that it apperteyneth not vnto the ministers to deale that wayes whose correction of faults lyeth partly in reprehensions and admonitions which he speaketh of there partly in excommunication whereof is spoken before Io. Whitgifte But how ap ly this place is alleaged to this end euery child may vnderstand For what a collection call you this S. Paule willeth Tim to exhorte the elder women as mothers the yonger as sisters therfore the regiment of the Church is only spiritual an ecclesiasticall person may not intermeddle with any kind of ciuil affayres one Christian man must exhort an other reproue an other also as occasion requireth therefore he may not execute any ciuil office the reason is al one Your defense of this place is very slender and you might with as muche credite to them haue passed it ouer as you haue done diuers other Chap. 1. the. 10. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 230. Sect. 2. In the place to the Ephes. the Apostle sayth that God hathe appoynted Christ to be the head of the Churche vvhiche is his body euen the fulnesse of him that filleth all in all things Here we learne that Christ Spirituall go uernment taketh not away ciuill Magistracie is the head of the Churche but howe proues this that the gouernment of the Churche is onely spirituall Will you heereby take away ciuill Magistrates and other gouernoures that God hathe placed in his Churche It is subtilly done of you to quote the places onely and not to apply them nor to conclude of them for surely if you had layde downe the words and applyed them to your purpose not wyse and learned onely but very children woulde haue laughed you to scorne T. C. Pag. 167. Lin. 12. Further touching the place of the Ephes. for so muche as our sauiour Christ as he is head of his Church is the spirituall gouernour thereof it is meete that their gouernment which are appoynted vnderneath him as he is head should be likewise spirituall as his is For as for the cyuil 1. Cor. 11. Magistrate although he be appoynted of Chryst as he is God in whyche respecte there is none aboue Christ yet he is not appoynted of hym in respect that he is head of the Churche in regarde whereof God is aboue Christ and as the Apostle sayth the head of him Io. Whitgifte Christ is the head of the Churche and spiritually gouerneth the same in the conscience The gouernment of the Church is not only spiritual but bicause it hath also an outwarde and visible forme therefore it requireth an outwarde and visible gouernment whiche Christ dothe execute aswell by the ciuill Magistrate as he dothe by the ecclesiasticall minister and therefore the gouernment of the Churche in the respect of the externall and visible forme of it is not onely spirituall Christ gouerneth by him selfe spiritually onely and by his ministers bothe spiritually and externally and therefore your reason is nothing But why doe you not answere in this place to that which I charge them with touching the ciuill T. C. content to passe y the ab dging of ciuill autho Magistrate In the former place where I spake no suche thing you sayde that I vntruely surmised that they shut out the ciuill Magistrate from punishing the wycked But héere when I charge them that by their application of this place they take away ciuill Magistrates and other gouernours that God hath placed in his Churche you answere not one worde In déede bothe you and they by your false interpretations of this and such lyke places doe altogither seclude the ciuill Magistrate from any gouernment of the Churche and in effect say with the Papistes that he dothe gouerne as he is man and not as he is a Christian and that he gouerneth men in that they be men and not in that they be Christian men which may well be spoken of the Turke hauing Christians subiect vnder him but it is wickednesse to thinke it of a Christian Magistrate and it dothe not muche differ from the opinion of the Anabaptistes Chap. 1. the. 11. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 230. Sect. 5. 6. Pag. 231. Sect. 1. In the. 10. Hebr. verse 30. it is thus written For vve knovve hym that hath sayde vengeance belongeth vnto me I vvill recompence sayth the Lorde And agayne The Lorde shall iudge his people Uengeance belongeth to God and he shall iudge his people Ergo the gouernment of the Church must be spirituall Fonde arguments and to no purpose I am ashamed of these reasons and so will you be likewise if you be not past shame If you meane that the gouernment of the Church is spirituall bicause God by his spirite gyftes and ministerie of hys worde dothe gouerne it you saye truely although these places be vnaptly alleaged but if you meane that therefore there neede no ciuill Magistrates no ciuill and politike lawes no externall discipline no outwarde ceremonies and orders you are greatly deceyued and ioyne with the Anabaptistes whose errour in that poynt is sufficiently by dyuers learned men confuted And therefore I will not as yet intermeddle therewith vntill I vnderstande further of your meaning Io. Whitgifte This is lefte vnanswered ¶ The reasons which T. C. vseth
for it behoued the Apostles to be chosen immediatly of God In the election of Deacons Luke hath not set downe what the Church did obserue But in another place we may gather by Paule that they of Asia vsed the holding vp of hands which manner was vsuall with the most of the Graecians wherefore there is no cause why any man should ouercuriously prescribe here any certaine rule c. Now to reherse what varietie hath bin vsed in the Churches touching this election Uarietie vsed in the electiōs in y e pr tiue Churches Caluine were néedelesse it shall be sufficient only to set downe that which M. Caluine speaketh of it in his Insti cap. 8. Sect. 60. c. wher first he declareth that the rule of S. Paule touching the qualities of a minister is to be obserued and that he is to be examined according to the same Then doth he shew how that there hath not always one order bin obserued touching the electours and appointers for sometimes none was chosen without the consent of the whole people and other sometimes the people committed the choise to the Bishop and ministers or Seniors except it were in the election of the Bishop And sometimes onely the ministers did first choose and then offer those whome they had chosen to the magistrate or to the Senat or to the chiefe rulers who ratifyed the election if they liked it if not then did they choose out other c. This varietie of electing ministers doth M. Caluine declare in that place It appeareth in the. 35. or as some counteth 36. of the canons attributed to the Apostles Can. Apost 36 that Bishops were not then chosen by the consent of the people for that canon speaketh of such Byshops as being appoynted to some Church were not receyued by the people and yet remayned Bishops still To the like effect is the. 18. can Con. Ancyra Con Ancyr can 18. Con. Antioch can 17. 18. Con Laodic can 12. Can. 13. T. C. seeketh a commaundement in the Ceremoniall law for the election of the ministers of the Gospell The place Numbers 8. proueth not his purpose and the. 17. and. 18. of the Councell of Antioch In the. 12. Canon of the Councell of Laodicea it is decréed that the Metropolitane with other Byshops adioyning should haue the election of Byshops and of such as are to be preferred to a cure And the. 13. Can. of the same councell doth forbid that the elections of ministers should be committed to the people So that you sée your manner of electing by the people not to haue bin in all Churches in all purer times It appeareth that you were put to a pinch for a commaundement to establish your manner and kind of electing ministers when you are constrayned to fetch one out of the booke of Numbers and that nothing at all perteyning to your purpose For what one word is there in that place that hath any shadow of your election First the people there did not elect the Leuits Secondly they laid their hands vpon them which I am sure you will not haue the people to do in the ordeyning of Byshops for you say that only elders and ministers vsed to lay on their hands So that this place of the Booke of Numbers doth commaund that whiche you will not admitte and speaketh not one word of that for the which you do alledge it But tell me in good earnest will you bind vs to the obseruation of the Ceremonial law also as you haue done before to the iudiciall For what else is there in that whole chapter but lawes touching ceremonies and in that place by you alleadged especially for there he speaketh of the manner of purifying of the Leuites and of their offering he speaketh not of any election For God himselfe had chosen the Leuites before for the first borne of the children of Israell cap. 3. I would to God men would but indifferently consider how vndiscréetely you alleadge the scriptures lest you should séeme to be voyde of scripture You say the people by laying on their hands did by that ceremonie consecrate them Would you haue the people to consecrate ministers by laying on of hands do you not care what absurdities and contrarieties you speake you make a distinction in that whiche followeth betwixte ordeyning electing and you say that election perteyneth to the people ordeyning to the Bishop Pag. 40. lin vlt. c. Pag. 31. sect 4. And in another place that the imposition of handes was not by the Churche and people but by the Elders and Ministers But if this be a commaundement for vs now to obserue then must you recant that saying I doe admitte this Scripture as a portion of the Ceremoniall lawe but I doe not The dealings of T. C. tend to Iudaisme admit it as a perpetuall commaundement bicause I knowe the Ceremoniall lawe is abrogated excepte you will haue all those Ceremonies whiche were vsed in that place and are conteyned in the same commaundement as of sprinkling them with water of shauing their bodies of washing their clothes of laying their handes on the heads of bullocks c. practized in ordering ministers of the Gospel Neither is this any title of Catabaptistrie but yours smelleth of Iudaisme for you bounde vs before to the Iudiciall law and now you will bind vs to the Ceremoniall also what remayneth but to say that Christ is not yet come Circumcision is a figure of baptisme but the Leuiticall priesthoode is no figure of the ministerie of the Gospell therfore we may well proue the baptizing of Infantes by circumcision but we can not proue the ordering of ministers of the Gospell by the ceremonies vsed about the Leuites Those examples of the Apostles doe well proue the baptizing of children bicause Gene. 17. Mat. 28. they be grounded vpon these generall places of the Scriptures Ego sum Deus tuus c. I am thy God and the God of thy seede c. and Mat. 28. Baptizantes omnes gentes Baptizing all nations The contention is not whether discipline c. be necessarie but whether one kinde be necessarie Of discipline also and gouernment I haue something spoken before and minde to speake hereafter when further occasion is offered in this place it is answere sufficient to say that the contention is not whether discipline or gouernment be necessarie in the Churche or no but whether this or that kinde of discipline and gouernment be necessarie and whether there be one certayne kinde and forme of discipline and gouernment to be vsed in the Churche at all times and in all places As for Pastors Bishops Doctors Deacons c. they be necessarie ministers in the Churche but it doth not therfore follow that there must be alwayes one kinde and forme of gouernment Chap. 4. the. 8. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 44. Sect. 1. And I adde that howsoeuer in the Apostles time that kinde of electing and calling
abuse was growen in some places in the tyme of Hierome and Damasus about whose time thys The Cōmuniō ministred to the sicke Councell was but there is neyther Councell nor learned Father that euer opened their mouthes agaynst ministring the Communion to the sicke in pryuate families or vpon any other vrgente or necessarie occasion The (*) In the Greeke it is the. 13. Canon 12. Canon of the Councell of Nice dothe determine directly that the Communion oughte to be ministred to the sicke Chap. 6. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag. 116. Lin. 12. Besides therefore that I haue before shewed the vnlawfulnesse generally of ministring the Sacrament in priuate places seeing that the custome of ministring thys Supper vnto the sicke rose vpon corrupte causes and rotten foundations and consydering also God be praysed in these tymes there are non dryuen by feare to renounce the truthe wherevpon any suche excommunication should ensue which in the extremitie of sicknesse should be mitigated after thys sorte for no man nowe that is in extreme sicknesse is cast downe or else assaulted with this temptation that he is cutte off from the Churche I saye these things considered it followeth that this ministring of Communion in priuate houses and to the sicke is vnlawfull as that whiche rose vpon euill grounds and if it were lawfull yet that nowe in these times of peace and when the sicke are not excōmunicated there is no vse of it And so it appeareth how little the custome of the olde Church dothe helpe M. Doctor in this poynt Io. Whitgifte This was one cause but not the only cause why the Communion was ministred to the sicke the chiefe and principall cause was as I haue sayde the frutes and effectes of that Sacrament whiche is remission of sinnes peace of conscience and effectuall applying of the death and passion of Christ vnto the Communicants and an assurance of Gods promises whereof that sacrament is an effectuall seale Chap. 6. the. 6. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 81. Sect. 3. The Communion exhibited vnto sicke persons is allowed bothe Sick persons receyue the communion of Peter Martyr and Bucer as in the other treatise I haue declared and consonant to the custome of Christes Churche euen from the Apostles time as is to be seene in the olde writers T. C. Page 116. Sect. 1. And as for that he sayth Peter Martyr and Bucer do allowé the Communion exhibited to the sicke persons when he sheweth that he shal haue answere For where he sayth he hath declared it in an other treatise eyther the Printer hath left out that treatise or M. Doctor wonderfully forgetteth him selfe or else he meaneth some odde thing that he hath written and layed vp in some corner of his studie for surely there is no suche saying in all his booke before nor yet after as farre as I can finde M. Bucer in his Censures vpon the Communion booke speaking of this parte of Bucer it sayth thus And those thinges whiche are commaunded in this behalfe doe well inoughe agree with the holye Scriptures for to receyue the Communion of the Lorde and to be partaker of hys Table dothe not a little auayle vnto the comforte of afflicted consciences if it be receyued according to the Lords institution M. Martyrs allowing of the same is added in that place M. Musculus in his Common places Titul de coena Domini saythe that Priuata Musculus extrema aegrotantium communio c. Priuate and last communion ministred to the sicke is reteyned in dyuers reformed Churches for this ende that the sicke persons thereby maye be strengthned in fayth made stronger agaynst the temptations of Sathan and the better armed to beare the paynes of death Neyther doe I sée any reason if the superstitious opinion of the Papistes be rooted out why any man in that case shoulde be depriued of these benefites Chap. 6. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Page 116. Sect. 2. Nowe remayneth to be spoken of the number of communicantes and that there is saulte in the appoynting of the Seruice booke not onely for that it admitteth in the tyme of plague that one wyth the Minister maye celebrate the Supper of the Lorde in the house but for that it ordeyneth a Communion in the Churche when of a great number whyche assemble there it admytteth thrce or foure The abuse and inconuenience whereof maye thus be considered The holy Sacrament of the Supper of the Lorde is not onely a seale and confirmation of the promises of God vnto vs but also a profession of our comunction as well with Christe our sauiour and wyth God as also as (*) 1. C 10 S. Paule teacheth a declaration and profession that we are at one wyth our brethren so that it is first a sacrament of the knytting of all the body generally and of euery member particularly wyth the head and then of the members of the bodie one wyth an other Nowe therefore seeing that euery particular Churche and body of Gods people is a representation and as it were a liuely portrayture of the whole Churche and body of Christ it followeth that whyche we can not doe wyth all the Churche scattered throughout the whole worlde for the distaunces of places whereby we are seuered we ought to doe with that Churche wherevnto God hath raunged vs as muche as possibly or conuentently maye be The departing therefore of the rest of the Churche from those three or foure is an open profession that they haue no communion felowshippe nor vnitie wyth them that doe communicate and likewyse of those three or foure that they haue none wyth the rest that ioyne not themselues therevnto when as both by the many grapes making one cup cornes making one loafe that whole Church beeing many persons are called as to the vnitie whiche they haue one with an other and altogether among them selues so to the declaration and profession of it by receyuing one wyth another and altogither amongst themselues And as if so be that we do not celebrate as we may possibly and conueniently the supper of the Lorde we thereby vtter our wante of loue towardes the Lorde whyche hathe redeemed vs so if we doe not communicate togither wyth the Churche so farre foorthe as we maye doe conueniently we betray the wante of our loue that we haue one towards an other And therefore S. (*) 1. C 11 Paule driuing heerevnto wysheth that one shoulde tary for an other reprehending that when one preuenteth and commeth before an other saying that that is to take euery man hys owne supper and not to celebrate the Lordes Supper not that so many men or women as there came so many tables were for that had not beene possible in so great assemblies but that they sorted them selues into certayne companies and that they came scattering one after an other and that in steade of making one Supper of the Lorde they dyd make dyuers Io. Whitgifte You can
misunderstāding of the 9. of Numbers for delere animam eius de populis suis is there not to excommunicate as you interprete it but to put to death and to kill which were a hard punishment for such as be negligent in comming to the Communion Conuenient discipline I thinke very necessarie in this poynt and therefore I will not stande with you in other circumstances of this portion onely I will desire the Reader to note howe farre the Authours The Admonition and the 〈◊〉 agr not of the Admonition varie from you in this assertion who Page 102. say That we thrust them in their sinne to the Lordes table and page 109. that it shoulde be prouided that Papists nor other neyther constraynedly nor customable communicate in the mysteryes of saluation whiche cannot otherwise be ment than that we compell them by punishments to come to the Lordes table But howe much more cause shoulde they haue so to say if we were as seuere in punishing as you here requyre But the negligence of the common sort in not oftner frequenting the Lordes supper is lamentable the punishment appoynted for such in all places not so well executed and therefore as I sayde before I thinke conuenient discipline and due execution of the same verie necessarie An other thing also I woulde haue the Reader to marke that you here alledge for proofe the Canons of the Apostles which are as much doubted of to haue béene the Apostles as the Epistles either of Clement or Anacletus Chap. 6. the. 12. Diuision T. C. Pag. 118. Sect. 1. But here also may rise another doubt of the former wordes of Moses in the boke of Numbers For seeing that he maketh this exception if they be cleane it may be sayd that those that depart do not feele themselues meete to receyue and therefore depart the other three or foure or mo feele themselues meete and disposed for that purpose wherevpon it may seeme that it is neyther reason to compell those to come which feele not themselues meete nor to reiect them that feele that good disposition and preparation in themselues For answere whereunto we must vnderstande that the vncleannesse whiche Moses speaketh of was such as men could not easily auoyde And whervnto they might fall sometymes by necessarie duetie as by handling theyr dead which they were by the rule of charitie bounde to burie sometymes by touching at vnwares a dead bodie or by sitting in the place where some vncleane bodie had sitten or by touching suche things whiche the lawe iudged vncleane which thing cannot be alledged in those that are nowe of the Churche for as many as be of it and withall of such discretion as are able to proue and examine themselues can haue no excuse at all if they may be at the Church to withdrawe themselues from the holy Supper of the Lorde For if they will say that they be not meete it may be answered vnto them that it is their owne fault and further if they be not meete to receyue the holy Sacrament of the Supper they are not meete to heare the worde of God they are not meete to be partakers of the prayers of the Church and if they be for one they are also for the other for with that boldnesse and with that dutie or lawfulnesse I speake of those which are of the Church and of discretion to examine them selues I say (*) This is not true as shall be shewed with what lawfulnesse they may offer themselues to the prayers and to the hearing of the worde of God they may also offer themselues vnto the Lordes Supper And to whome soeuer of them the Lorde will communicate himselfe by preaching the worde vnto the same he will not refuse to communicate himselfe by receyuing of the Sacraments for whosoeuer is of Gods householde and family he neede not be afrayde to come to the Lordes table nor doubt but that the Lorde will feede him there and whatsoeuer he be that is a member of the bodie of Christ may be assured that he receyueth life from Christ the head as well by the arteries and conduites of the Supper of the Lorde as by the preaching of the worde of God so that it muste needes followe that the not receyuing of those which depart out of the Church when there is any Communion celebrated proceedeth eyther of vaine and supersticious feare growing of grosse ignorance of themselues and of the holy Sacraments or else of an intollerable negligence or rather contempt of the which neyther the one nor the other shoulde be either borne with or nourished either by permitting three or foure to communicate alone or else in letting them which depart go so easily away with so great a fault which ought to be seuerely punished Io. Whitgifte Neither do I differ from you in the substance of this that you here set down which is as I take it to cut off friuolous and vaine excuses vsed by such as eyther neglect or contemne the holy Communion but in certaine circumstances here vsed I do not altogither agrée with you For first the vncleannesse that Moses speaketh of is but ceremoniall and externall and therfore may more easily be auoyded but weakenesse of fayth and vncleannesse of lyfe which may and ought for a time withdraw men from the Communion is naturall and inward therfore with greater difficultie shunned Secondly a Christian man and a true member of the Church may take benefite Mē not mete to communicate may be admitted to the hearing of the fro and pray by prayer and hearing of the worde of God whiche yet for diuerse respectes is not meete to receyue the holy Communion and indéede praying and preaching bée meanes to prepare men and make them apt to communicate besydes this he that is weake in fayth corrupt in iudgement ignorant in the right vse of the Sacrament may be admitted to prayer and to the hearing of the worde that he may be instructed for fides ex auditu fayth commeth by hearing so may he not to the receyuing Rom 10 of the Supper thirdely no man may presume to receyue the Supper except he hath first tryed and examined himselfe but he ought to come to the hearing of the worde of God that he may first learne how to examine himselfe Wherfore this is not true that with what lawfulnesse they may offer themselues to the prayers and to the hearing of the T. C. contrarie to himselfe pag. 35. n. 10 pag. 133. li 19. worde of God they may also offer themselues vnto the Lordes Supper And you affirme the contrarie Pag. 35. For there you say that the Magistrate ought to compell such as be Papistes and excommunicate persons to heare Sermons and Pag. 133. you affirme the same in playner wordes shewing a reason why suche may be admitted to the hearing of the worde and yet not to the participation of the Lordes Supper Lastly I denie that any such perswasion is nourished in them