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A10967 An historical dialogue touching antichrist and poperie, drawen and published for the common benefit and comfort of our church in these dangerous daies, & against the desperate attemptes of the vowed aduersaries of Iesus Christ, his gospell, and this florishing state. by Thomas Rogers. Allowed by auctoritie. Rogers, Thomas, d. 1616. 1589 (1589) STC 21237; ESTC S112075 54,518 126

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of whom our speech hath bin had à verie honorable title ascribed vnto him by the Pope other Potentates had the like that which they are in name they may be in truth Great iniuries are offered by the Pope vnto his strōgest pillars not only in France but also in Spaine Princes irritated may and wil do much T. Those princes are in best estate euen in the eies of man which haue least dealinges with the Pope and as the Princes are such be the people Z. Were that well marked Poperie could not stand the Antichristian kingdome must needes euen presentlie fall to the ground Chap. 15. Of the Priestlie office of our Sauiour attributed to the Pope of Rome TIMOTHIE The time is now that you tel how the Pope is placed in the Priestlie office of our Sauiour Christ in that respect made another Sauiour ZELOTES That by two thinges is euident first in that he is à Priest then because he is à Pope T. As a Priest how is he Christ Z. For that as à priest he hath auctoritie to offer sacrifice vnto God for the quicke and the dead which sacrifice also as they teach is a propitiatorie sacrifice and the same sacrifice propitiatorie too that was offered by Christ himselfe vpō the crosse None of which thinges belong vnto anie creature but solie vnto Iesus Christ the onely sauiour of mankind T. It is verie true For as Christ himselfe is the propitiation for our sinnes so that sacrifice propitiatorie was once offered and that vpon the crosse that by Iesus Christ himselfe both the sacrificer the sacrifice Z. Therefore to whom-soeuer power is giuen to offer à propitiatorie sacrifice for the quicke and dead which power they giue to euerie priest who is in the highest degree of holie orders and so belōgeth vnto the Pope as he is a priest and they who say that the sacrament of the Altar is the same propitiatorie sacrifice that was offered by Christ himselfe vpon the crosse they giue both vnto the Pope a priest and to the Masse the sacrifice that which of right belongeth solie vnto Iesus Christ. T. But our sauiour as a priest hath not onely satisfied the wrath of God by sacrificing himselfe vpon the crosse but still doth as à priest also continually vse intercession vnto his father for his redeemed people Z. That is manifest in the holie Scriptures notwithstanding though cleere it be that Christ is our mediator and by intercession maketh request for vs vnto God Yet they make euery popish priest beside à mediator so wel as Christ T. Sainct Paul saith there is but one God and but one mediator between God and mā euen the Man Christ Iesus Z. And they say contrarying thereby Th'apostle Paul there be manie mediators euen so many as there bee priestes and popes For euerie pope because euerie priest is a mediator And so euery pope euen this Franciscane Sixtus vsurpeth this part of Christ his office T. Shew now againe howe euerie Pope as Pope intrudeth himselfe into the priestlie office of Iesus Christ. Z. Their common iudgement of the pope is that hee as pope is the high priest the general pastor the commō father of all Christians the hie pastor and moderator of Gods vniuersal Church in order Melchisidech and in dignitie Aaron T. It is wel knowen that such titles are proper onlie vnto Christ those persons Melchisidec and Aaron were types and figures of our sauiour Christ Z. Therefore to inuest the pope with such glorious titles to make him the person prefigured by such tipes is euē to make the pope if not the same yet another Christ as they made S. Francis T. Sainct Gregorie did write vnto the Emperour Maurice that whosoeuer calleth himselfe the vniuersal priest in his elation he is the fore-runner of Antichrist because through pride he placeth himselfe afore other men And I may boldie in likewise affirme that whosoeuer doth either cal or suffer himselfe to be called by such titles as you haue recited he is verie Antichrist Z. But so doth the pope T. The Pope therefore is Antichrist Z. Then the arrogating of that power whereby our Sauiour most soueraignly excelleth must more fullie decipher notify him to bee Antichrist in verie deed T. Can you show that Z. What is more soueraigne than for our Sauiour to bee the head of his church vpon whom al other partes do depend euen as members are linked to the head T. Nothing Z. Of this mysticall bodie the pope is made the head and so him that giueth life and direction to all other members whatsoeuer and they say of him as Iohn said of our sauiour Christ Of his fulnes we do all receaue T. Is this Catholique diuinitie to make the Pope of aequal excellencie with our Sauiour Christ is this the diuinitie of Papistes Z. You shal hear more yet For as they call him the head of the vniuersall church and say that of his fulnes wee do all receaue so as it is recorded with patience hath he indured to heare himselfe called euen The lamb of God which taketh away the sinnes of the world For euē prostrate vpon the ground certaine Embassadors of Sicilia said vnto him on this wise Thou which takest away the sins of the world haue mercy vpon vs thou which takest away the sinnes of the world graunt vs peace T. O gratious God open once the eies of thine elect among them at length that they may see the most horrible condition they are in and repent Z. If here they staid with making the Pope in office equal with our Sauiour it were the lesse offensiue but when they do not onely compare but for pittie also and power by blasphemous lies and vntruthes prefer the pope afore Christ in the redemption of mankinde the sinne is extended euen vnto the vttermost T. Do they so Z. Do they not so when they teach deliuer that the pope dailye of pittie freeth some one or other frō the paines of Purgatorie when our Sauiour did free none at al from those hellish pains T. This shal suffice for this point I se their blasphemies but too too wel and I abhor them from mine hart Z. Wee will therefore speake of that which remaineth Chap. 16. How the Pope of Rome is set in the prophetical office of Iesus Christ. TIMOTHIE And is the Pope seated in the prophetical as he is in the roial and priestlie office of Iesus Christ ZELOTES Heare and then determine T. First tel me where is our Sauiour entitled with the name of Prophet Z. That hee should bee so it was by Moses long-ago fore-told and that hee was so S. S. Peter Stephan do testifie T. Why is he so termed Z. He is so called partlie because hee prophesied much of thinges to come but
doth vsurpe th' office of Christ that I may the more be setled in this perswasion that the Pope is Antichrist Z. They which say that the Pope is the sunne the Church the moone the Pope the bridegroome the church the bride the Pope the head the church the bodie they place the Pope in the roome of Christ. For Christ is the sun Christ the Bridegroome Christ the head of the catholique Church To say therfore that the Pope is the Sunne the bridegrome the head of the church is euen to saye that the Pope is Christ. This Heauen cānot indure two sunnes nor this wife two husbandes nor this bodie two heads If the Pope be Christ is not and if Christ be all this the Pope is not T. Conceaue they so highly of the Pope Z. Yea and to this day whensoeuer they enstall their newly created Pope they salute him with these words Thou art the high priest thou art the Archbishop thou art the heire of the Apostles in praedecession Abel in gouerning the Arke Noe in Patriarkship Abraham in order Melchisedec in dignity Aaron in authority Moses in iudgement Salomon in zeale Helias in humilitie Dauid in power Peter and in respect of thine vnction thou art Christ. T. So say some of our side as I do remember Z. That which we say they confirme and like well of T. But how in respect of his vnction can he bee called Christ seeing Christ was not annointed by the handes of any mortall man but by the Power of the coelestiall father nor with earthlie ointment but with spirituall oile the Pope is anointed not immediatly from God but by the handes of man not with spirituall oile but with greasie ointment Z. In deed it is too horrible that in that respect they should intitle him with the name of Christ yet far worser is it that they dare acknowledge him as they do for the very Messiah and renounce our Sauiour T. As how Z. In that they take not Christ for the onely King the onely Priest and the onely Prophet but make the Pope the King the Priest and the Prophet of the church of God as well as Christ. Chap. 6. 1 Of the Pope of Rome inuested in the roiall throne of Iesus Christ and made the soueraigne King of the Catholique Church 2. and of the Papall gouernment and bloodie proceedinges of the same all Antichristian TIMOTHIE Declare nowe more fully that which you haue said first how the Pope vsurpeth the place of Christ in th' execution of his kingly office ZELOTES You knowe what is written by sainct Iohn in his Reuelation touching our Sauiour Christ that hee is Lord of Lordes and King of Kinges yea the King of Kinges and Lord of Lordes T. The Places are well known Z. They now which say that the Pope is the Prince of Princes and the King of Kinges do they not enstall the Pope in the throne of Christ T. That is verie true but do they so Z. Yea for those be their verie wordes iudgement of the Pope And which is equiualent with the same they say that of necessitie if men will be saued they must come vnder the subiection of the Pope yea we declare say define and pronounce that it is altogether necessarie if they will bee saued that all creatures yeeld obedience to the Pope of Rome saith Gregorie the eight T. That is the voice not of God but of Antichrist himselfe Z. So be those words wherby it is deliuered that the Pope not only hath the power of à priest but also whatsoeuer power the Kinges and Emperours in any part of th' uniuersall world haue it is the Popes they receaue it from him for his part himselfe is exempted from all obedience to any earthly Prince and is in such à state that hee neither neede nor will do anie reuerēce at all to any mortall man T. Christ was of an other Spirite for he acknowledged th' auctoritie of the Magistrate ouer him and his when he paid the polle mony both for him selfe and Peter and that to auoide offense and that vnto such as were no fauorers of the true Religion but enemies Againe of that humilitie was Christ that he is an example to all posteritie of meeknes and lowlines in hart Z. And the Pope is à Patron on th' other side of most detestable pride For hee giueth out his feete to be kissed of men euen of Kinges and Emperours T. Christ did neuer so lay forth his feet but that he washed and wiped his poore disciples feete wee do reade And that because they should do euen as he had done to them Z. Truth it is Christ gaue no such example and the Kinges of Persia Turkie yea the most proud Calaphaes of Arabia haue alwayes abhorred such kinde of adoration T. Read you euer that any Emperour was of that base minde that he would submit him selfe so seruilie to the kissing of the Pope his feet or that any Pope would suffer such à maiestie so to debase himselfe Z. We finde not onely that the Emperour Frederick did so vnto pope Alexander the third and Iustiniā vnto Syluester but also that it is th' office of the Emperour sometime to poure the water into the basen when the pope is to wash to carie the first dish to the table where the pope doth sit and abroad not onely to hold the stirrop while the pope mounteth vp but to leade forth his horse also for some pretty space yea the pride of the pope of Rome is such as some well acquainted with the fashion of coūtries are driuen to say what is à King what is an Emperor in his Maiestie any thing to the Bishop of Rome No surely nor I would not wish them to be T. That must needes bee excessiue pompe which the greatest in the world may be ashamed to shew forth Z. And so it must T. What places of Scripture haue you to condemne this ambitious arrogancie of the Pope of Rome Z. To condemne his pride the places are manifold and pregnant as where ambition arrogancie pride is condēned in generall so where Christ saith vnto his disciples that albeit the Kinges of the Gentiles do raigne beare rule are called bountifull yet they should not be so where againe he saith My kingdome is not of this world where againe it is writtē that Christ departed into à mountaine him selfe alone when he perceaued that the people would come and take him to make him king And where the Elders of the Church are willed not to be as Lords ouer Gods heritage but to be ensamples to the flocke T. Seeing the word of God is so flat against his pride and arrogancie how cometh it about that he is of that state and Soueraigntie Z. That is by the papal constitutions and by nothing else
you do not remember which all posteritie shall crie out vpon that parricide intended promised vowed but through the almightie power of the watchman of Englād not brought to passe by Parrie Frō this warrant after that Babingtō other like him-selfe traitors cōbined confederated themselues by vow oath likewise euen to murther shed the pretious blood of their soueraigne Queen the Lords anointed Frō this warrāt another sort of alienated Italienated Englishmen which thing her Maiesties owne eies saw written and her Blessed mouth did vtter had by oath also vowed within one moneth either to bereaue her sacred bodie of naturall life or to be hanged thēselues Vpon the like ground before all this that vile youth of Warwickshire Someruile in a detestable minde and with à resolute purpose came trudging apace toward Londō to haue shortned the daies of his deere prince and most gratious soueraigne T. I haue read that the guise of D. Storie that Arch-papist and traitor after meales was to pray that if our Queene euen this our Queene Elizabeth would not speedily turne to Queene Maries religion that shee might be ouercome with fire and sword all that would take hir part and I thought him of all the worst man that so wickedlye would wish vnto his Prince euen the holye one of God But who euer would haue thought that any durst haue dared with stained handes to touch much lesse to kil so honorable and diuine à state as her Maiestie is Z. Assure your selfe there is nothing so damnable but if such à Doctor dare say it there be schollers enough too many of his schoole that will do it and if the Catholique Tyran the Pope wil allowe it there bee few of his vassals as they call themselues Catholiques I am perswaded but easilie wil subscribe vnto the same as lawfull if not put it in execution as honorable T. Many treasons haue bin contriued euen against most godlie Princes as we may reade in holy writ much oppression euen of good men by cruell tyrantes but that any subiect professing the Religion did euer so much as in hart consent vnto much lesse traiterouslie by word or deede conspire the deadly ruine of their soueraine Princes whether good or bad we shall neuer read but that they haue discouered treasons as did Mordecaie wee may read and euen in the middest of their miseries praied for their oppressors wee may also read Z. These treasons therefore seditious rebellions and horrible pursuing of Christian Princes by all treacherous deuises euen vnto the death do euidently demōstrate vnto the world of what spirite and Religion men are of Chap. 7. 1 Of Gods iustice executed seuerallie vpon popish rebels and other traitors from time to time 2. and of the vse which good subiectes and others should make of the same TIMOTHIE Curse not the King no not in thy thought neither curse the rich in thy bedchāber for the foule of the heauen shal cary the voice that which hath wings shal declare the matter said Salomon or God rather by Salomons mouth ZELOT Oh though euen legions of examples of good men conceauing honorably of their gouernors in respect of their places and liuing in good order euen vnder most cruel tyrantes cannot allure men to th' imitating of their obedience yet that the feare of those heauie punishments threatned in that sentence last by you mētioned could terrify the wicked from tracing the steps of rebels traitors which by the righteous iudgement of the almighty are accursed T. I verily do beleeue no traitors can prosper but that they yea and all which they in disloial hartes shal enterprise are accursed of the Lord. Z. You wil be strengthned much in this perswasion if you call into minde th' examples of God his iustice I say not time out of minde but within the memorie of vs both nor in forraine landes but within hir Maiesties dominions seuerely executed vpon these furtherers of the Popes antichristian auctoritie arrant traitors both to God and this realme T. My memorie is not so good that I can remember God forgiue me that I haue no better obserued such thinges recite therefore I pray you those examples or some of them for my further confirmation Z. You haue heard I am sure of seditiōs moued of late yeares both in Ireland in England But did you euer heare of any prosperous successe that traitors hetherto haue attained T. This I know for certaine that the rebels in England were no sooner vp but they were as easily to th' euerlasting shame confusion both of themselues their houses put-downe againe they of Irelād though troublesome for à season yet by the suppressing power of th' almightie are so rooted-out in the' nd as which is merueilous yet wel known there is not in al that wild wast Countrie à know en traitor remaining at this day nor hath bin for à great time Z. As the iudgement of God vpon those rebels in generall so the same iudgements of the same Lord of hostes vpon the ring-leaders heads of those rebels in particular would from hand to hand from father to son and from man to man euerlastingly to all posterities be deliuered T. The particulars I haue not so well marked make me acquainted with them for it shall be as ioyfull for me to heare as for you to tell of the destruction of disloiall subiectes and traitors Z. The principal stirrers-vp of rebellion from time to time in Ireland haue bin of English Stukeley D. Sanders of Irishmen Iames the Earle of Desmond and Iohn his brother and Fitz-morrice Now behold the iudgementes of God either by the handes of man or without meanes by himselfe or by himselfe man too vpon thē al. By the handes of man God in his Iustice both caused that forenamed Fitz-morrice at one blowe by à lustie young gentleman to be slaine made Stukley so infamous and so intollerablie odious among the forraine papistes that euen the King of Spaine himselfe otherwise à great harborer praeferrer of such fire-brandes of sedition El banished him not only out of his Court but quite out of his Countrie of Spaine Without the meanes of man in his iustice God not onely caused that D. Sanders to wander like himselfe à rauening wolfe among the wolues on the mountaines of Ireland but also kept from him all sustenance of life who had deteined the food of the soule from others and bereft him of his wits which had so abused his knowledge to the disquieting of Gods people whereby rauing and in à phrensie hee ended his daies that would haue brought to distruction manie one both in body and soule By himselfe and man too the two Desmondes came to fearefull endes by man both of thē after the Irish fashion made shorter by the head by God both of them also like Caine