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hand_n place_n right_a sit_v 9,908 5 7.8184 4 true
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A93367 The heads and substance of a discourse; first private, and afterwards publike; held in Axbridge, in the county of Somerset, about the 6th of March, 1650. Between Iohn Smith of Badgworth, and Charls Carlile of Bitsham, &c. on the one part; and Thomas Collier of Westbury on the other. Things they are of weight and highest concernment. / Published by the said Tho. Collier of Westbury. Collier, Thomas, fl. 1691.; Smith, John, of Badgworth.; Carlile, Charles. 1651 (1651) Wing S4091; Thomason E1368_2; ESTC R209287 11,613 29

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second 2. He denyed a local heaven In this I denyed heaven to be a particular limited place I acknowledged that heaven must have some place for that which hath no place hath no being but that as far as I know it s not a limited place that is some place of glory above the firmament as is imagined but that heaven relates rather to a condition of glory then a place of glory and it s not the place but the condition which makes either heaven or hell He viz. Parson Smith proceeds to proof produces that of Paul being in the third heaven 2 Cor. 12. I asked him if he thought that Paul was taken up above the Starry firmament he answered yea for he knew no other heaven I answered I knew another heaven which Christ speaks of which is within and doubtless this is the heaven the Apostle was in The highest manifestations and injoyment of the Lord so high that he knew not himself whether in the body or out of the body that this is the truth appears in that he is not speaking of being transported personally into such a high place as is imagined for he is speaking of visions and revelations so high heavenly and excellent that he knew not whether he were in or out of the body He produced Steven Acts 7. 55 56. who said Behold I see the heavens open and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God I asked if he thought Steven was so quick sighted as to see so many hundred thousand miles as they say it is and it s very probable Steven was in a house too and that I understood it to be the invisible glory of Father and Son manifest unto Steven he answered that it is said he saw Christ at the right hand of the Father I answered its true but what understand you by right hand that is an expression rather to declare the glory of Christ then the place and that which I understood by right hand was and is the enojoyment of the Fathers love of the Fathers glory at his right hand are pleasures for evermore the apprehensions of wrath and anger is the left hand c. so that heaven which Steven saw open was the glorious opening and unfoldings of the Father and Son whom to behold in love is life and then was a time for Steven to see the heavenly glory of the Father and Son in a speciall manner when under such a trial for the profession of them One Parson Fearn stands up and prest Parson Smith to say something in confirmation of the point in hand for the satisfaction of the people which put him the more to a stand then the said Parson Fearn produced that Scripture Col. 3. 1. If ye be risen with Christ seek those things which are above where Christ sitteth at the right hand of God I answered that this Scripture held forth no local but a spiritual heaven for the heaven here is that into which saints are already risen into if risen with him then above with him beholding the glory of the Son with the Father seeking things which are sutable to such a condition until the Son shall appear in his brightness then shall they appear with him in glory verse 4. for they shall see him as he is 1 John 3. 3. They ask where heaven is if not a particular place I answer as in relation to God its every where he being in all places yet never out of the perfection of glory therefore never out of heaven as in relation to the Creature it s every where where the heavenly light and love is manifest and the soul taken into union with it He asked if I would bring heaven and hell together whether heaven was in hell I answered yea it is in hell you grant that God is in hell then certainly heaven is there for God is never out of the heavenly glory farther two persons may be in one place the one in heaven the other in hell the one in the injoyment of love and grace the other in the apprehension of wrath and anger experience declares the truth of this and thus may it be in another world to eternity seeing its not the place but the condition which makes the difference Again heaven and hell light and darkness joy and sorrow may be in one heart yet the light still distinguished from the darkness hell and heaven distinguished and at a distance each from other Vnto the third 3. He denyed the equality of the Son with the Father this was abused in the terms and after consented unto that he denyed the equality of the Son in the way they hold it forth which is as the second person in the Divine being there I denyed any equality for there is no quality in God quality and equality is only proper to the creature not the Creator Therefore if we consider Christ as God so he is the Father at this he cried out Blasphemy making wonders till I produced the Scripture Esay 9. 6. where he is said to be the mighty God the everlasting Father the Prince of peace The Scripture produced to prove an equality was Phil. 2. 6. Who being in the form of God thought it no robbery to be equal with God to which I answered that the equality there intended was not an equality in the Divine being but the excellent quality of the humane nature by virtue of its union with the Divine and so he thought it no robbery to be equal because God had made him so for its evident in the Scripture that its the same He that was in the form of God and equal with him which died upon the Cross and I suppose none dare affirm that it was the Godhead which dyed upon the Cross therefore I say he was made equall at which they wondred again I proved it thus Act. 2. 36. God hath made that same Jesus whom ye crucified both Lord and Christ And all power is given to the Son And God hath given him a name above every name c. The fourth Particular 4. He denyed that Jesus Christ by his death upon the Cross did satisfie divine Justice In this they likewise abused me for that which I asserted was That Christ by his death upon the Cross did not satisfie divine Justice in the way they hold it forth viz. That God was offended and Christ the second Person steps in and undertakes to make satisfaction to divine Justice This was that which I denyed affirming that the Redemption and Salvation of man flows singly and purely from the Fathers Love and that Christ came forth from the Father did the work of the Father was upheld and carryed through by the Father for saith Christ John 5. 19. The Son of himself can do nothing And God so loved the world that he gave his Son Joh. 3. 16. So that Christ is the manifestation of the Fathers love To clear this truth unto them I gave them this comparison Suppose one of you lend