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A14363 A fruteful treatise of predestination, and of the deuyne prouidence of god as far forth as the holy scriptures and word of god shal lead vs, and an answer made to all the vain and blasphemous obiections that the epicures and Anabaptistes of our time canne make. Set forth dialoge wise, by Ihon Veron.; Fruteful treatise of predestination, and of the devyne providence of god. VĂ©ron, John, d. 1563. 1561 (1561) STC 24680; ESTC S119102 83,266 305

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which can not be passed yea I cannot shorten my daies though I woulde what neade I then to eate or to drincke and speciallye sythe that meate and drincke can not be gotten but wyth the sweate of my owne browes and so pine him self to death Would ye not iudge thys man to be both rebellious againste the ordenaunce of almightye God and also a murtherer of him selfe Againe if he seeth poysone before hys eyes which he knoweth to be such poyson that if he eate of it he shall die presentlye the deathe and yet wyl eat of it saying that he can not die afore the time appoynted of God be come can we saye that this man is obedient vnto the deuyne prouidence of almighty God EVTRA. If we should say so we should be worse than madde For why doth God appoynt such thinges for the sauegarde and preseruation of our own life but that we should vse them or whye dothe he geue vs warning of so manye pearils and ieopardies but to thys end that we should shonne them PHILALETHES I wold wysh neighbour Dydimus that both ye and all other that make the like obiections that ye made euen nowe woulde but marke the example of kinge Dauid Dauid It is not vnknowen vnto you that these be his wordes My hope is in thee o Lorde and I say Psal xxxi thou art my God my tyme is in thy hād Wherby he did declare that he did al togeither depend and hange of the diuyne prouidence of almightye God Yet notwithstandynge when he hearde that Saule hadde sente his souldioures to hys house for to laye wayte for hym and for to kyll hym in the morninge he soughte al meanes possyble for to escape oute of theyr handes he despised not the Counsaile of Micholl his wife whiche bothe tolde hym that if he shoulde not saue his life that nyghte he muste be slaine the nexte morow and also dyd lette hym downe throughe a windowe that he myghte escape the daunger that he was in He did not saye vnto hys wyfe What neade we to care Let vs lye styll God is able to deliuer vs eyther by his almightye power or elsse by some miraculous meane therefore we wil let hym woorke as it pleaseth hym But rather as he dyd wel vnderstand that the deuine prouidence of GOD dyd woorke and dothe dailye woorke by certaine meanes so knewe he that it was hys duetye to vse them in the feare of God and wyth all thanckes geuynge The LORD had plainlye saide vnto Paule Be of a good cheare For as thou haste testified of me at Ierusalem Act. xxiii Paule so must thou testify at Rome also Althoughe he did doubt nothinge of the truthe of Goddes promises nor yet of the deuine prouydence of God yet whē hys systers sonne dyd tell hym how the Iewes had conspyred hys deathe he dyd sende hym pryuely to the captayn for to geue hym warnyng of it and also for to desire him that he wold in no wyse agree to the vnlawefull request of the Iewes And when the souldiers of the Romayns did cary him to Antypatris where they deliuered hym to certayne horsemen whiche conueyed him to Cesarea he was well contente with it Lykewyse when he did sayle in the sea Adriaticum and was moste lyke to be dryuen to a shypwracke he dyd saye vnto them that were wyth hym Act. xxvii whyche were then fore amased and euen at theyr wyttes ende Nowe I exhorte you to be of good cheare for thers shal none of oure lyfes peryshe For thys night stode by me the angel of God whose I am and whome I serue and sayed feare not Paule thou muste be broughte before the Emperoure And lo God hathe geuen vnto thee all them that sayle wyth thee Wherfore syrs be of good cheare for I beleue God that it shall come so to passe as it was tolde me Yet a lyttle whyle after when the maryners wente aboute to flye oute of the shyp Saynte Paule dyd saye vnto the souldyours and vnto theyr captayne excepte these men do remaine in the shyp ye can not bee saued Zherefore the meanes wherby God doth worke do pertayne vnto hys diuyne prouidence wherby we maye gather that the true seruauntes of God do in no wyse neglect and dyspise thē ALBION The examples that ye haue broughte in euen now Question are very playne But why is the thiefe punyshed as oure neighboure Dydimus saide a little afore whyche hathe robbed hym whome GOD woulde chastise with pouertye or the murtherer hanged whych hath slayne hym whose lyfe was at an ende alreadye by the appoyntment of God If al suche menne do serue vnto the wyl of God why shoulde they be punished PHILA But I say plainly that they do in no wyse serue to the wil of God Aunswer to the Question but that they doe followe theyr naughty and deuelish mind For they onlye obey GOD that beyng instructed of hys wil do endeuoure them selues to fulfyll it Who thei be that do seruice vnto God But where shall we be instructed of his will sauinge onlye by hys worde Therefore whensoeuer we gee aboute to doe anye thynge we muste haue a respecte alwayes vnto the will of God as he doth set it forthe vnto vs in hys word God doth only require that of vs which he doth commaund and bid Therefore if we do anye thinge againste his commaundement it is no obedience but a mere transgression and stubbornnesse Whyche oughte to be punished accordinge to that due order that he hym selfe hathe appoynted sayinge by hys holye Apostle Saint Paul If thou doest euill Rom. xiii then feare the power For he beateth not the sweard for naughie For he is the minister of God a taker of vengeaunce to punish him that doth euel ALBION Yet this they coulde not do onlesse it wer the wil of god PHILA What say ye coulde the deuil haue done the same vnto Iob Iob. i. which he did vnto him without the wil of God Or could the legyon of deuels haue entred into the herd of swine and drowned them Mat. viii excepte Christ our sauioure had bene wylling and consenting therto ALBION No verely PHILA As then the Deuell is a minister or instrument of God for to do what so euer he willeth hym and appoynteth hym to do The deuil and hys members are ministers of God so the limmes or members of the deuell are the ministers or instrumentes of Goddes deuyne prouydence for to serue him in suche thynges as he hym selfe thyncketh meete and expedient And yet they can not be excused of theyr naughtinesse therefore no more then the deuil him self can be excused though he be faine to be a minister an instrument of God to do such thinges as pleaseth hym For whatsoeuer the deuel and his limmes do they doe it not to please God withall but to fulfill theyr naughtye and deuelishe mindes And that it is so theyr owne consciences do beare them record of it