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A01130 The Pope confuted The holy and apostolique Church confuting the Pope. The first action. Translated out of Latine into English, by Iames Bell.; Papa confutatus. English Foxe, John, 1516-1587.; Bell, James, fl. 1551-1596. 1580 (1580) STC 11241; ESTC S116021 179,895 252

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the rocke did signifie Christ but the rock was Christ when as neuerthelesse no man ought to doute of the Apostles meaning herein not that Christe was a very rocke or stone in deede but that the rocke did signifie Christ. Or if these iolly fellowes will not bee satisfied with this aunswere of Augustine then let Ambrose aunswere for Augustine Who setting downe the matter playnely by the woorde of signifying Bicause saith he we be deliuered by the death of the Lorde beeing myndefull hereof we doe in eating and drinking signifie the flesh and blood which was crucified for vs. But if all the speeches which Christe vsed which are euery where very plentifull in figures and parables must bee leueled according too this playne rule of the letter then let vs in our entry at the Church doore worship the doore bicause in like vtterance of speeche the Lorde sayde I am the doore if any man doe enter by me c. Where appeareth no sounde of any woorde of signifying whereby he might manifest vnto vs that he was not a doore in deede but did signifie a doore But in this place I see you forsake your grammer construction and shrowde your selues vnder a figure and not without cause And what scrupule is it I praye you that may let vs to vse a figuratiue speeche as wel here where he saith This is my body Or why shoulde you bee more squemishe at a figuratiue speeche where we are saide to eate Christe then where we are commanded by the scriptures to put on Christe Paul doth instruct the Galathians on this wise Al ye that be baptized haue put on Christe and here you acknowledge a figure Christ teacheth vs that he is the foode of our life and commaundeth vs to eate him affirming that to be his body here ye can take no notice of any figure And why so I praye you or what reason doth enduce you to this that in putting on Christe you will seeme altogether spirituall but in deuouring Christe altogether fleshly and carnall preparing your myndes there and here onely your teeth and belly But I vnderstande what scrupule this is that so much altereth your diet It is bicause in the woordes of the supper a certen speciall commaundement is set downe by Christe whereby wee be commaunded to doe this in remembraunce of him Goe to and doth this seeme cause sufficient enough why reiecting the figure you shoulde runne awaye from heauenly diuinitie to boyshe grammaticall construction from the spirite to the letter from life to the belly Why then when S. Paul doth not onely make vs to be cloathed with Christ but also commaundeth vs to put him on When as also he commaundeth vs to take the sworde into our handes which by expresse denomination hee calleth the worde of God and fayth the Buckler wherewith hee chargeth too be furnished shall wee therefore stricktly conuer these commaundementes of the Apostles after the naturall phrase and simple maner of speeche leauing the spirite May I be so bold holy father to demaund of you when the blessed virgin is commaunded to take the disciple of Christe for her sonne as is before mentioned shall wee therefore take him for her naturall sonne borne of her body Men are counsayled too gelde them selues for the kingdome of God what shall wee therefore followe the fonde example of Origen in the carnall construction of the letter The Lord him self doth els where commande to pluck out the eye if it offende likewise to cut of the right hande and the right foote if they offende the same Christe also doth by expresse wordes forbidde that none of his disciples should seeke to be saluted by the name of Lorde or maister and that none of his seruauntes shoulde presse vp to the highest places and seates in meetings together is there any one of all your holy crewe that will therefore mangle his body and cut of any his members or pluck foorth his eyes at this commaundement of the Gospell or will any of you thinke it matter vnseemely for a bishop to beare rule ouer others I thinke you wil not for you will saye it were a very absurde matter to be done Nowe which of these seemeth more absurde vnto you either to cut of the hande or foote from the body or to take the eye forth of the head then to deuoure at one morsell a quicke liuing man whole and sounde tog●ther with handes feete eyes and skinne fleshe blood bones yea his guttes also nayles sinowes and muscles and to swallow him downe into the panche And yet notwithstanding may not all these so many and so monstruouse absurdities which you see plainely with your eyes and which the very course of nature can in no wise disgest preuaile with you to call your grosse and fleshly fat imaginations to the spirituall vnderstanding of these woordes wherein if you can not finde in your heart to credit your owne senses and reason nor to yelde to your iudgemet holy father yet ought the authoritie of Augustine not so lightly be regarded who in his booke de Doctrina Christiana discoursing vpon the maner of discerning the properties of wordes whether they be properly spokē or figuratiuely amongest other his rules hee setteth downe this for a speciall note namely that where any speech wil seeme to commaund sacriledge or an haynous and wicked thing the same speech should be construed for a figuratiue speech And least any man shoulde cauill here that this note doth not appertaine vnto the Euchariste let Augustine be hearkened vnto beeing the expositour of his owne woordes who doth applie this chiefly too those woordes vttered of eating Christe his fleshe and drinking his blood In which woordes of Christ saith Augustine bicause a wicked thing semeth to be commaunded hereof hee concludeth on this wise It is a figure therefore saith he cōmaunding to participate with the passion of our Lord Iesus sweetly and profitably too laye vp within the closettes of our remembrance that Christs flesh was woūded crucified for vs What can bee more manifest then these woordes of Augustine what more autentyke then his autoritie which if wee yelde vnto to be truth in deede then either mu●● you abandon this newe framshapen poppet of Papisticall transubstantiation or incurre the blemishe of horrible wickednesse and withall yelde ouer to many other grosse absurdities quite against nature and kynde whether ye will or no. For what more execrable wickednesse or horror more dete●table may a man not only cōmit but imagine more vnworthy the precious body of our Lord then in bidding bread and wine adiew out of the sacrament to supplie in place thereof Christe his naturall fleshe to be torne with teeth really and corporally to be deu●ured fleshe blood bones to conuey it so into the stomake and to swallowe downe mans naturall blood moreouer in resp●ct of nature it selfe what can be vttered more grossely absurde more vnreasonable then to
denie that we ought to b●leeue our handes and eyes beeing blinded altogither here enforced therevnto by the authoritie of the woorde wherevnto the senses must yeelde and bee subiect of necessitie Bee it as you say But what shall wee say then meane whiles of these formes and she●es of bread Do yee thinke that these also bee fledde away togither with th●ir substaunce or that they rem●ine ●●ill What else but that they abide still A good fellowshippe then tell vs howe knowe you this Forsooth bycause you doe see it Go to then and what nicenesse of arguing is this O fine man you doe see the formes seuered from their substaunce and doe beleeue Wee doe as plainly beholde the substaunce it selfe with our eyes and shall wee not beleeue the thing that our eyes doe present vnto vs If your p●rspectiues doe not fayle you in your accidentes why shall our eyesight in so manifest and euident a demonstration rather beguile vs Or if you be of opinion that the woordes of Christe must b●● so throughly beleeued wherein he sayde This is my bodie t●●t the senses may not bee credited I see no cause Lombarde why it shoulde bee more lawfull for you to trust the testimonie of your eyes in comprehending the formes then for vs to res● vpon the iudgement of our eyes in conceyuing the substaunce which we doe see and plainly discer●e Neither doe we for this cause credite the wordes of Christ lesse bycause in the outwarde Sacr●m●nt wee mistrust not o●● ou●ward● senses altogither We kno●e that it is true and without all question that Chris● spake of his bodie yet mu●● not therefore the other bee ●o ●ecessarily fi●●e which our eyes doo present vntoo vs of the remayning substaunce of bread But Lombarde supposeth that Christes body can not be in the sacrament vnlesse the natural body bee present and that the body can not otherwyse bee present except the bread be absent and that there can be none other maner of change but whereby the substaunce of bread shoulde bee turned intoo the person of the sonne of GOD. But wee confesse both too bee true namely that it is the body of Christ and that withal the bread ceaseth not to be bread so that neither the wordes of Christ ought to bee discredited nor the senses deceaued in their plaine beholding of visible things But yee wil saye For as much as the power of the heauenly worde is of such efficacy as that it made Heauen Earth the Seas and al that is conteyned in them of nought howe much more easily shall this woorking worde bee able too chaunge that substaunce of bread which our eyes doo see intoo the body of Christe namely when as wee doo heare the Lorde himselfe by expresse woordes testifying the same too bee his owne body Firste touching the omnipotency of Gods woorde I were very wicked if I woulde not agree with Ambrose that this is most true that the same most heauenly creator of Heauen Earth did make al thinges which wee doo see of nought by the most mighty force of his woorde But amongest al that meruelouse frame of visible thinges what did that heauenly woorde at any tyme bring foorth but that hee willed shoulde be subiect to the viewe of man as when hee commaunded that light shoulde bee made immediately light was made and apparant too the eye The earth was commaunded to bring foorth her grasse and leafe that al men might see it Lastly Let vs make man saied hee after our owne likene●se Of all these thinges the heauenly Maiestie made not any one but hee left too bee euidently disceruable and the woonderful woorkemanship thereof to bee plainely beholden In like manner whereas in the Gospell are many miracles extant wherein appeareth most singular excellency of Christes Godhead yet in all these did hee woorke no miracle so couertly at any tyme but hee made it apparauntly manifest too all men In this sacrament nowe what one thing did the Apostles w●onder at as a miracle or what transubstantiation of bread did they euer beleeue or deliuered ouer too others too bee beleeued And will you fyr Lombarde retyring backe too Iewishe fables hale vs backe from the spirite wherei● wee beganne vntoo the fleshe and will you perswade vs to this newly forged substaunce of the Sonne of God filed from out the substaunce of bread whereof neyther your selfe see any token nor are able to expresse any demonstration But you passe and repasse too Christes woordes agayne That is to say to the bare letter of the woorde and like a Cowarde flee altogether from the meaning of Christ. As concerning the woordes themselues we do easily agree with you that the woordes are not vneffectuall nor set downe by Christe in vayne But sithence Chri●t did speake and put in accion many sundry things in this Supper what one sillable somuche of all his woordes and accions doe you alleadge Lombarde out of the which you may bee able too cayne vnto vs this vgly counterfaite transubstantiation First Iesus tooke bread and brake it Here as yet yee see nothing altered The same bread being so taken hee commaundeth his Disciples to eate Wha● do these wordes ●mporte els as yet then bread but that which hee inferreth vpon the premises saying That to bee his body I beseeche you what els did hee meane by these wordes then to giue the elementes the denomination of his b●dy For proofe whereo● I appeale to the Grammer rules by that which he added afterwardes giuen broken for you Who dooth not perceaue here that thereby not the substaūce of the body but his death and passion is to bee vnderstood which suffering should bee bread and foode for all people in the worlde and as it were an euerlasting banquet according too that prophetical promise in Esay the Prophet the 25. chapter And for that cause least the remembrance of his passion should waxe out of minde he commaundeth it to bee done in the remembrance of him and by the same memorial to shew the Lords death vntil he come again Wherby may appeare without any difficulty that the naturall body is no● eaten here but the death of his body signified and the remembrance thereof celebrated not the bread wyne turned into flesh blood but a sacrament of our redemption to be instituted in bread wyne Lastly haui●g now finished al thinges on this wise and hauing acc●mplished the woorke of our redemption when as he prepared himselfe to ascende vp againe intoo heauen it remayneth to know of you Lombard why he would take away hence the pres●nce of his natural body in the open eyes and sight of his disciples but bicause they shoulde cease to seeke any more for his corporall presence on earth And doo you notwithstanding proceede in your course Lombard to hold fast the body of our lord vnder the formes of bread wine w t is farre away caried from