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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A81551 A dispute betwixt an atheist and a Christian the atheist being a Flemming, the Christian an Englishman. Published according to order. G. G. 1646 (1646) Wing D1678; Thomason E1187_3; ESTC R15204 24,048 59

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Scripture as Moses I can answer you Why did not David a man after Gods owne heart build the Temple as well as Solomen but because it was the pleasure of the Lord that Solomon should rayse a Trophee of Honour to his Name for ever So why did not Abraham lead the Children of Israel into Canaan and write that which Moses writ but because the Lord had a minde to shew himself to be a great God and above all others and his power over Pharaoh and the unbelieving Egyptians by the hand of his servant Moses who brought the Children of Israel over the Red Sea and out of thraldome that they might Know that he was the Lord and Moses his Propher which by Abraham could not so well have beene shewne for that the Children of Israel had neyther number to testifie his Works nor affection to value them And for the injustice you taxe God with in condemning the Righteous with the Wicked I answer That if you will a nature you must allow a God or Providence which is good and all things to have their being from him as the World and all things that be in it Man being then in it must needs be made by him And if so then must hee have power over soule and body And having so you may allow the Election of him eyther to salvation or damnation both being just For if six men be condemned and three of them get the Kings Pardon are the other three unjustly dealt with Or if a man hire two and give one as much as hee promised and the other more is he that hath his due unjustly dealt with I say no but they ought all to think well those that have their deserts and those that have above then So then allowing God this power as every man may do what he vvill vvith his ovvn Then may you very vvell believe that the good vvhich vvere before Iacob vvere saved as being elected in Christ as the Scriptures say before the beginning of the World and many of the other by the mercy of him that made them A. This is no answer to me for now we argue to prove the likelyhood of the truth or falsehood of the Scripture and you quote Scripture in your Argument But answer me with reason how could they according to your Scripture be saved that believed not in the Messias and how doe you prove by your Scripture that any that lived in the times before Iacob knew of his comming C. I say where you will use Scripture against me you may allow me Scripture to answer you and it was promised from the beginning that the feed of the woman should breake the serpents head A. This is nothing because as aforesaid C. I shall refer that to judgement But the Prophecies of the Scripture with the marvellous things that have been done by the beleevers in it shew plainly that there is no truth but there no Religion but there no hope of salvation but there And first for the Prophesies The curse of Noah on Cham wherein he saith A servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren which is meant of himselfe and his posterity to Iaphet and Sem and then again of Ismael the sonne of Abraham where it is said His hand shall be against every man and every mans hand against him Both which we see verified at this day for at the division of the world between the sonnes of Noah Africa fell into the posterity of Cham which people are at this day the greatest slaves that can be they being servants to servants and sold generally as horses to those that will give most for them it being the onely trade into America to carry the natives of Congo and Guiney Countries of Africa thither where they worke in the mines and at the sugar mils or any vile worke which no others will undertake in which their labour they became vassals and subject to the servants of others And for the Ismalites carriage it is well known to those that passe from Aleppo to Ierusalem or Bagdet or from Grancaro to Ierusalem or to any other part of Africa for though they are generally in the Turks dominions yet can none of his Subjects passe to the places abovesaid without drawn swords of the Ismalites in their teeths and about them for a reward for their peaceable passing And then for the vvonders that have been done by the beleevers in this Lavv look on Moses Ioshua Gedeon Samson David and his Worthies and the Prophets and their incomparable acts are without number Therefore seriously consider on vvhat I have said and turne from that vvicked condition you are in to my faith and my beliefe that I may love you as a brother and not hate you as one vvicked and an enemy to God and your ovvn soul Come let me persvvade you A. First for the Prophesies you speake of and the truth of them and how they are verified in the sonnes of Cham and Ismael I answer that the same condition are the sonnes of Sem in who are said to possesse Asia and not a few of those of Europe for first look on the great Turk and on his possessions in Eu ope and Asia and then the conditions of those in his Dominions who are all slaves and the great Officers in his Court and the rest of his servants and Souldiers being slaves themselves to him have their slaves also under them which may bee called slaves to slaves And on the Tartarians Persians Mogulls Chineans Japanders all the East Indians in all which Countries you may finde multitudes of slaves to be sold and few or none of Africa amongst them and in Africa there are many places where there be numbers of slaves of other parts as in particular the City of Argier where there are not so few as eight thousand of your own Nation and as many of the Spanish French and Italians that live in as great bondage as any in the World And for that of Ismael as much as you can say of his posterity may be said of the Owsecockey on the Gulf of Venice and many of the Scythians and Grim Tartars and for the men of might you speak of look on Moses and on Romulus both beginning of nothing both cunning both honoured after their deaths as Gods both valiant and hardy men the like comparison may be made between Joshua and Theseus Gideon and Scanderbeg Samson and Hercules David and Corelanus c. C. In your answer to mee in this point of Ismael and Cham you doe not disprove the truth of Scripture For though you instance the thraldome of other Nations you do not deny but that the Children of Cham are generally slavish and though you answer but poorly the condition of the Ismaelites with that of the Owsecockey and Tartars and Scythians yet you do not deny that the Prophecie is made good in them as if a man be told he shall break his neck if it happens that another man comes to