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hand_n body_n right_a sit_v 5,149 5 7.1964 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A08426 A true report of the disputation or rather priuate conference had in the Tower of London, with Ed. Campion Iesuite, the last of August. 1581. Set downe by the reuerend learned men them selues that dealt therein. VVhereunto is ioyned also a true report of the other three dayes conferences had there with the same Iesuite. Which nowe are thought meete to be published in print by authoritie Nowell, Alexander, 1507?-1602.; Day, William, 1529-1596. aut; Fielde, John, d. 1588.; Fulke, William, 1538-1589. aut; Goad, Roger, 1538-1610. aut; Campion, Edmund, Saint, 1540-1581. aut; Walker, John, d. 1588. aut; Charke, William, d. 1617. aut 1583 (1583) STC 18744; ESTC S113389 169,017 230

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the_o matter_n that_o he_o have_v in_o hand_n goad_n you_o answer_v not_o the_o argument_n thus_o i_o urge_v it_o brief_o christ_n be_v now_o present_a with_o his_o church_n only_o touch_v his_o spirit_n and_o grace_n ergo_fw-la he_o be_v no_o way_n present_a touch_v his_o body_n my_o argument_n you_o see_v be_v ground_v upon_o augustine_n plain_a word_n oppose_v the_o one_o presence_n to_o the_o other_o secundum_fw-la presentiam_fw-la maiestatis_fw-la semper_fw-la habemus_fw-la christum_fw-la etc._n etc._n campion_n he_o compare_v these_o two_o together_o how_o he_o be_v present_a to_o his_o apostle_n and_o how_o to_o we_o he_o talk_v general_o of_o a_o usual_a presence_n as_o every_o mammay_n have_v christ_n present_a by_o prayer_n etc._n etc._n goad_n and_o he_o make_v christ_n present_a to_o we_o none_o other_o way_n but_o by_o his_o majesty_n and_o invisible_a grace_n and_o touch_v all_o presence_n of_o his_o flesh_n say_v it_o be_v true_a i_o you_o shall_v not_o have_v always_o 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present_a in_o the_o sacrament_n in_o his_o natural_a body_n he_o be_v 7._o present_a in_o truth_n and_o in_o deed_n not_o only_o in_o a_o signify_v mystery_n but_o he_o be_v not_o present_a in_o the_o sacrament_n in_o truth_n and_o in_o deed_n but_o only_o in_o a_o signify_v mystery_n ergo_fw-la he_o be_v not_o present_a in_o his_o natural_a body_n cam._n i_o deny_v your_o minor_a he_o be_v present_a in_o the_o truth_n of_o his_o body_n fulke_n i_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o the_o canon_n law_n de_fw-fr consecratione_fw-la distinct._n 2._o cap._n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la sicut_fw-la ergo_fw-la caelestis_fw-la panis_fw-la qui_fw-la christi_fw-la caro_fw-la est_fw-la svo_fw-la modo_fw-la voco_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la cum_fw-la revera_fw-la sit_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la corporis_fw-la christi_fw-la illius_fw-la videlicet_fw-la quod_fw-la visibile_fw-la quodpalpabile_fw-la mortale_fw-la in_o cruse_n positum_fw-la est_fw-la vocaturque_fw-la ipsa_fw-la immolatio_fw-la carnis_fw-la quae_fw-la sacerdotismanibus_fw-la fit_a christi_fw-la passio_fw-la mors_fw-la crucifixio_fw-la non_fw-la rei_fw-la veritate_fw-la sed_fw-la significante_fw-la mysterio_fw-la sic_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la fidei_fw-la quod_fw-la baptismus_fw-la intelligitur_fw-la fides_fw-la est●…_n therefore_o even_o as_o the_o heavenly_a bread_n which_o be_v the_o flesh_n of_o christ_n after_o a_o peculiar_a manner_n be_v call_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n when_o in_o deed_n it_o be_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n to_o wit_n of_o that_o body_n which_o be_v visible_a which_o be_v palpable_a be_v mortal_a be_v put_v on_o the_o cross_n and_o even_o that_o immolation_n of_o the_o flesh_n which_o be_v do_v by_o the_o priest_n hand_n be_v call_v the_o passion_n death_n crucifixion_n of_o christ_n not_o in_o truth_n of_o the_o thing_n but_o in_o a_o signify_v mystery_n so_o the_o sacrament_n of_o faith_n which_o be_v understand_v to_o be_v baptism_n be_v faith_n and_o the_o gloss._n hereupon_o say_v coelestibus_fw-la etc._n etc._n id_fw-la est_fw-la coeleste_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la quod_fw-la ver_fw-la è_fw-la repraesentat_fw-la christi_fw-la carnem_fw-la dicitur_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la sed_fw-la impropriè_fw-la unde_fw-la dicitur_fw-la svo_fw-la modo_fw-la sed_fw-la non_fw-la rei_fw-la veritate_fw-la sed_fw-la significante_fw-la mysterio_fw-la ut_fw-la sit_fw-la sensus_fw-la voco_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la idest_fw-la significat_fw-la the_o heavenly_a bread_n that_o be_v the_o heavenly_a sacrament_n which_o true_o represent_v the_o flesh_n of_o christ_n be_v call_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n but_o unproper_o whereupon_o it_o be_v say_v by_o a_o peculiar_a manner_n but_o not_o in_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o thing_n but_o in_o a_o signify_v mystery_n so_o that_o the_o sense_n be_v it_o be_v call_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n that_o be_v it_o signify_v it_o camp_n all_o this_o make_v for_o transubstantiation_n that_o which_o we_o see_v be_v call_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n where_o in_o deed_n it_o be_v but_o the_o colour_n and_o the_o accident_n fulke_n all_o make_v for_o you_o but_o let_v we_o see_v whether_o you_o can_v so_o run_v away_o with_o the_o matter_n he_o say_v coelestibus_fw-la panis_fw-la the_o heavenly_a bread_n can_v the_o colour_n or_o accident_n be_v call_v the_o heavenly_a bread_n campion_n the_o meaning_n be_v of_o the_o accident_n and_o of_o the_o sign_n fulke_n this_o be_v a_o strange_a proposition_n colour_n or_o accidens_fw-la be_v coelestibus_fw-la panis_fw-la campion_n it_o be_v call_v coelestibus_fw-la panis_fw-la because_o it_o be_v heavenly_a bread_n by_o consecration_n fulke_n that_o can_v not_o be_v for_o he_o call_v that_o heavenly_a bread_n which_o be_v the_o flesh_n of_o christ_n and_o after_o the_o manner_n of_o it_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n but_o accident_n be_v not_o the_o flesh_n of_o christ_n nor_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n ergo_fw-la they_o be_v not_o the_o heavenly_a bread_n campion_n if_o you_o respect_v the_o quality_n it_o be_v the_o heavenly_a bread_n by_o consecration_n fulke_n it_o seem_v you_o know_v not_o the_o place_n the_o gloss_n say_v the_o heavenly_a bread_n which_o be_v the_o heavenly_a sacrament_n be_v call_v unproper_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n not_o in_o truth_n of_o the_o thing_n but_o in_o a_o signify_v mystery_n camp_n saint_n augustine_n there_o speak_v popular_o you_o bewray_v your_o slender_a read_n of_o augustine_n in_o cite_v this_o as_o gratian'ss_n authority_n fulke_n it_o be_v gratian_n in_o the_o decree_n of_o your_o own_o canon_n law_n and_o the_o gloss_n thereupon_o in_o deed_n the_o decree_n be_v borrow_v of_o augustine_n but_o it_o be_v more_o full_o against_o the_o carnal_a presence_n as_o it_o be_v cite_v by_o gratian._n campion_n i_o will_v answer_v both_o gratian_n and_o the_o gloss_n fulke_n set_a it_o down_o then_o in_o few_o word_n campion_n it_o be_v call_v coelestibus_fw-la in_o respect_n of_o consecration_n and_o transubstantiation_n bread_n in_o respect_n that_o it_o be_v bread_n &_o wine_n in_o outward_a show_n and_o for_o the_o accident_n it_o be_v call_v sacramentum_fw-la the_o sacrament_n in_o respect_n that_o under_o those_o outward_a show_v the_o natural_a body_n of_o christ_n be_v present_a fulke_n so_o you_o understand_v the_o sacrament_n which_o be_v deny_v to_o be_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n in_o truth_n of_o the_o thing_n to_o be_v the_o accident_n but_o it_o be_v absurd_a that_o accident_n shall_v be_v call_v the_o heavenly_a bread_n campion_n it_o be_v not_o absurd_a if_o it_o be_v heavenly_a understand_v but_o accident_n visible_o consider_v of_o themselves_o import_v absurdity_n fulke_n the_o sacrament_n be_v the_o outward_a show_n which_o be_v not_o the_o body_n of_o christ._n i_o will_v prove_v that_o he_o take_v the_o word_n sacrament_n for_o the_o whole_a sacrament_n not_o for_o the_o accident_n as_o you_o do_v campion_n he_o speak_v of_o the_o whole_a fulke_n he_o speak_v of_o the_o whole_a and_o not_o of_o the_o whole_a this_o be_v manifest_a contradiction_n campion_n the_o word_n sacrament_n be_v here_o take_v for_o the_o exterior_a form_n and_o not_o for_o the_o whole_a sacrament_n fulke_n i_o prove_v it_o must_v be_v take_v for_o the_o whole_a sacrament_n else_o it_o can_v not_o be_v compare_v with_o baptism_n but_o it_o be_v compare_v with_o baptism_n ergo_fw-la he_o take_v it_o for_o the_o whole_a sacrament_n camp_n your_o mayor_n i_o answer_v he_o compare_v the_o element_n of_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o altar_n with_o the_o element_n of_o water_n in_o baptism_n fulke_n he_o speak_v of_o the_o whole_a sacrament_n of_o baptism_n which_o be_v call_v faith_n even_o as_o the_o heavenly_a bread_n be_v call_v the_o sacrament_n of_o christ_n but_o the_o water_n of_o baptism_n be_v not_o call_v faith_n ergo_fw-la he_o speak_v of_o the_o whole_a sacrament_n campion_n he_o respect_v the_o external_a sign_n and_o compare_v sign_n with_o sign_n fulke_n that_o which_o he_o speak_v of_o be_v call_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n but_o the_o accident_n be_v not_o call_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n ergo_fw-la
his_o conscience_n be_v never_o so_o pure_a it_o sanctifi_v not_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n therefore_o there_o be_v no_o way_n for_o you_o to_o escape_v goad_n if_o there_o be_v transubstantiation_n than_o christ_n be_v real_o present_a in_o his_o true_a body_n argument_n but_o christ_n be_v not_o real_o present_a in_o his_o true_a body_n ergo_fw-la there_o be_v not_o transubstantiation_n camp_n christ_n be_v real_o present_a in_o his_o true_a body_n goad_n he_o be_v not_o present_a in_o his_o sensible_a body_n therefore_o not_o in_o his_o true_a body_n campion_n i_o deny_v your_o argument_n goad_n it_o be_v the_o argument_n of_o our_o saviour_n christ_n who_o neither_o deceive_v nor_o can_v be_v deceive_v luk._n 24._o 39_o see_v my_o hand_n and_o my_o foot_n that_o it_o be_v i_o handle_v i_o and_o see_v etc._n etc._n here_o christ_n prove_v his_o true_a body_n to_o be_v present_a by_o the_o sense_n of_o see_v and_o handle_v as_o reason_v thus_o you_o see_v and_o feel_v my_o body_n therefore_o i_o be_o present_a in_o my_o true_a body_n and_o it_o be_v not_o a_o spirit_n as_o you_o fear_v as_o if_o he_o can_v not_o have_v be_v see_v and_o handle_v than_o not_o to_o be_v believe_v to_o be_v his_o true_a body_n camp_n the_o argument_n of_o christ_n be_v good_a the_o body_n that_o may_v be_v feel_v must_v needs_o be_v a_o true_a body_n the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v always_o sensible_a but_o he_o do_v when_o it_o please_v he_o withdraw_v this_o property_n goad_n then_o by_o our_o saviour_n christ_n reason_n we_o may_v doubt_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o his_o body_n camp_n it_o be_v say_v of_o christ_n that_o he_o vanish_v out_o of_o their_o sight_n yet_o his_o body_n be_v visible_a and_o can_v not_o christ_n be_v present_a now_o without_o our_o see_v he_o goad_n he_o be_v take_v out_o of_o their_o sight_n and_o then_o how_o can_v they_o see_v he_o but_o you_o say_v his_o body_n be_v present_a with_o us._n will_v you_o challenge_v more_o unto_o you_o then_o christ_n himself_o do_v it_o please_v christ_n to_o be_v judge_v by_o our_o sense_n touch_v the_o presence_n of_o his_o body_n our_o sense_n do_v see_v feel_v smell_v and_o taste_v nothing_o but_o bread_n campion_n christ_n pleasure_n be_v ●…nough_o 〈◊〉_d the_o 〈◊〉_d ●…e_v he_o rise_v out_o of_o his_o sepulchre_n goad_n it_o please_v the_o lord_n to_o hold_v their_o eye_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d astonish_v for_o fear_n so_o when_o he_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d it_o be_v true_a that_o we_o can_v not_o use_v this_o sense_n campion_n then_o his_o body_n may_v be_v 〈◊〉_d to_o ●…s_n if_o he_o will_v &_o yet_o he_o in_o himself_o be_v always_o sensible_a so_o the_o cause_n of_o not_o see_v he_o be_v in_o he_o and_o not_o in_o my_o eye_n goad_n yea_o if_o our_o eye_n be_v hold_v that_o we_o can_v not_o see_v but_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o the_o apostle_n know_v nothing_o of_o this_o doctrine_n of_o real_a presence_n in_o the_o sacrament_n before_o christ_n resurrection_n for_o if_o they_o have_v be_v teach_v before_o in_o the_o 〈◊〉_d that_o christ_n be_v present_a in_o the_o sacrament_n in_o his_o natural_a body_n and_o yet_o they_o see_v and_o handle_v nothing_o else_o but_o bread_n this_o argument_n now_o after_o his_o resurrection_n draw_v from_o their_o sense_n have_v be_v of_o small_a force_n campion_n you_o have_v hear_v my_o answer_n though_o now_o it_o please_v he_o to_o show_v himself_o palpable_a yet_o there_o may_v be_v impediment_n in_o he_o and_o also_o in_o we_o why_o this_o be_v not_o always_o so_o here_o be_v no_o miracle_n when_o christ_n do_v thus_o show_v himself_o but_o christ_n will_v be_v present_v in_o the_o sacrament_n miraculous_o goad_n let_v we_o end_v with_o prayer_n we_o yield_v thou_o humble_o thank_v most_o gracious_a god_n and_o merciful_a father_n that_o it_o have_v please_v thou_o to_o call_v we_o to_o the_o knowledge_n and_o profession_n of_o thy_o everlasting_a truth_n reveal_v in_o thy_o holy_a word_n and_o although_o it_o be_v the_o lot_n &_o condition_n of_o the_o same_o truth_n always_o to_o have_v adversary_n and_o gainsayer_n that_o set_v themselves_o against_o the_o clear_a light_n of_o thy_o word_n yet_o we_o beseech_v thou_o so_o to_o establish_v and_o confirm_v our_o faith_n in_o the_o know_a truth_n that_o we_o be_v never_o offend_v by_o reason_n of_o error_n and_o heretic_n know_v that_o as_o there_o have_v be_v always_o among_o thy_o people_n so_o there_o will_v be_v still_o false_a prophet_n which_o privy_o shall_v bring_v in_o damnable_a heresy_n yea_o there_o must_v be_v heresy_n in_o the_o 2._o church_n that_o they_o which_o be_v approve_v may_v be_v know_v but_o rather_o o_o lord_n by_o this_o mean_n stir_v we_o up_o the_o more_o to_o study_v and_o 11._o meditate_v in_o thy_o law_n and_o special_o vouchsafe_v to_o work_v in_o our_o heart_n a_o great_a measure_n of_o zeal_n and_o love_n towards_o thy_o truth_n see_v that_o of_o thy_o just_a judgement_n thou_o use_v to_o send_v strong_a delusion_n that_o they_o shall_v believe_v lie_n which_o will_v not_o receive_v the_o love_n of_o thy_o truth_n and_o amongst_o the_o multitude_n of_o those_o that_o wander_v 2._o in_o blindness_n and_o error_n we_o beseech_v thou_o in_o thy_o good_a t●…e_n so_o many_o of_o they_o as_o pertain_v unto_o thy_o kingdom_n of_o thy_o mercy_n to_o convert_v and_o the_o rest_n that_o be_v obstinate_a against_o thy_o truth_n and_o glory_n of_o thy_o just_a judgement_n to_o co●…de_v and_o final_o to_o break_v the_o might_n of_o satan_n by_o the_o power_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n to_o who_o with_o thou_o and_o the_o holy_a spirit_n be_v all_o glory_n now_o and_o ever_o amen_n william_n fulke_o roger_n goad_n a_o remembrance_n of_o the_o conference_n have_v in_o the_o tower_n of_o london_n betwixt_o m._n d._n walker_n and_o m._n william_n charke_n opponent_n &_o edmund_n campion_n jesuite_n respondent_fw-la the_o 27._o of_o september_n 1581._o as_o follow_v 1._o whether_o the_o scripture_n contain_v sufficient_a doctrine_n question●…_n for_o our_o salvation_n 2._o whether_o faith_n only_o justifi_v master_n charke_n begin_v the_o action_n with_o this_o godly_a prayer_n but_o campion_n refuse_v to_o pray_v with_o they_o becrossed_a himself_o on_o the_o forehead_n breast_n and_o other_o part_n after_o his_o superstitious_a manner_n our_o help_n be_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o lord_n who_o have_v make_v heaven_n and_o earth_n o_o eternal_a god_n and_o most_o merciful_a father_n we_o thy_o servant_n do_v humble_o acknowledge_v that_o we_o be_v by_o nature_n miserable_a sinner_n full_a of_o darkness_n and_o error_n without_o thou_o neither_o meet_v to_o receive_v the_o love_n nor_o able_a to_o yield_v the_o obedience_n of_o thy_o truth_n therefore_o we_o beseech_v thou_o in_o jesus_n christ_n to_o throw_v all_o our_o sin_n into_o the_o bottom_n of_o the_o sea_n &_o to_o chase_v away_o all_o our_o darkness_n with_o the_o brightness_n of_o thy_o wisdom_n that_o we_o may_v grow_v up_o in_o the_o knowledge_n in_o the_o love_n and_o in_o the_o obedience_n of_o thy_o most_o holy_a will_n and_o because_o we_o be_v here_o assemble_v to_o maintain_v thy_o truth_n against_o the_o error_n and_o superstition_n of_o antichrist_n vouchsafe_v o_o lord_n our_o god_n to_o be_v present_a in_o this_o action_n by_o thy_o holy_a spirit_n and_o so_o sanctify_v our_o heart_n and_o govern_v our_o tongue_n that_o our_o corrupt_a affection_n be_v suppress_v all_o thing_n may_v be_v do_v in_o a_o godly_a zeal_n for_o thy_o truth_n and_o nothing_o against_o it_o moreover_o for_o those_o that_o be_v come_v to_o hear_v grant_v that_o as_o many_o as_o love_v thy_o gospel_n may_v be_v more_o and_o more_o confirm_v in_o the_o knowledge_n thereof_o by_o that_o which_o shall_v be_v faithful_o deliver_v out_o of_o thy_o holy_a word_n such_o as_o be_v otherwise_o mind_v we_o pray_v thou_o that_o they_o may_v yield_v either_o to_o the_o manifest_a truth_n if_o they_o appertain_v to_o thy_o holy_a election_n or_o be_v none_o of_o thou_o that_o they_o may_v appear_v guyltie_n and_o convict_v of_o a_o lie_a spirit_n such_o as_o be_v go_v out_o into_o the_o world_n to_o deceyve_v those_o that_o will_v not_o receyve_v the_o love_n of_o thy_o truth_n but_o delight_n in_o darkness_n these_o thing_n o_o lord_n and_o whatsoever_o thou_o know_v to_o be_v good_a for_o we_o we_o ask_v in_o the_o name_n of_o jesus_n christ_n and_o by_o that_o form_n of_o prayer_n which_o he_o have_v teach_v us._n our_o father_n etc._n etc._n after_o the_o prayer_n be_v end_v m._n d._n walker_n enter_v with_o this_o preface_n walker_n gentleman_n you_o shall_v understande_v that_o we_o be_v send_v hither_o by_o authority_n to_o talk_v &_o confer_v with_o one_o call_v campion_n a_o english_a man_n bear_v