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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A19149 A second manuduction, for Mr. Robinson. Or a confirmation of the former, in an ansvver to his manumission Ames, William, 1576-1633. 1615 (1615) STC 556; ESTC S115272 26,714 36

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it is an act or for the state arising from that act of obligation which is nothing else but the relation those persons obliged haue one to another so it is a relation or else for the thing to which they are obliged or the signe therof so it may be eyther an act or a disposition or some other good All these significations of the word covenant I find in scripture use of speach any other beside these I doe not understand If Mr. R. had another meaning he should haue doen well to haue expressed it better the poynt especially being of such momēt The things covenanted or the signe he cannot meane for these are not constantly resydeing in the vvhole all the parts therof which is a condition of this forme by him required some act or relation therfore he must needs understand gainsaying one part of the sentence by the other 3. The truth is this forme in strict accurate meaning must needs be some relation by Mr. R. his owne reason For nothing beside a relation can possiblie resyde actually one the same and at all times in a whole companie of men and in all the parts of that companie 4. Wheras he calleth this forme an orderly covenant his words are doubtfull at the least For there be many degrees of orderly proceeding in businesses publick as wel as private and every circumstance of order doeth not apperteyne as absolutely necessary to the constituting forme of a true church Now for the declaring of the trueth concerning this matter I propound to be considered this breif demonstration A visible church must not be considered as a simple effect arising of meer matter forme as Mr. R doeth speak of it But as a whole or compound consisting of partes or members so that the members must conteyne in themselves all the essentiall both matter forme also which make the wholle by compacting or uniting themselves in one Christian men being the called of God haue in them both matter forme essentiall for making of a visible church else could they not giue essence or being to the church for nothing can give that which it hath not Now these members combining themselves into one body as they are such doe make or rather are actually a true visible church one integrall body not continued but by aggregation which integral church as it is such hath for the constituting forme that relation which ariseth out of the combination of all the members and so differeth not essentially from all the members compacted but onely in reasō Further this integral body for the wel being of it in exercising those operations which belong unto it wherunto it serveth must become as we say organicall having members of diverse rankes some as head mouth eyes the pastor teachers elders some as hāds the deacons helpers wherupon ariseth another relation forme of accidental perfection in state of government which is cōplete or incomplete freely exercising the power granted by Christ to his church or else restreyned or defective therin Out of all this my answer is that the essentiall forme of a visible church is the covenant of God or true fayth made visible by profession the notes markes wherof are the word sacraments rightly administred receyved with fruights of obedience The integral constituting forme is that state relation or reference which a congregation of such professors haue one to another by vertue of their setled combination the note or mark wherof is their usuall assembling into one place watching one over another The organicall active forme is that state of order wherin officers people stand one to the other the note of which is direction submission Now to the poynt so many parrish assemblies of England as haue any competent number of good christians in them united together for to worship God ordinarily in one societie so many have essentiall integrall forme of a visible church and all they have entyre right to Christ to all the meanes of enioying him howsoever they are defective in the puritie of their combinatiō in the complete free exercising of their power The 4 and last quaestion propounded by Mr. R. concerning the church is hovv parrish assemblies being partes of diocesan false churches can any more be reputed true churches then could a particular Ievvish synagogue be so reputed vvhich should haue made it self an entyre independēt body in respect of the nationall church temple To which I answer that ther is not the like reason For parrish assemblies are not spirituall parts of a diocesan spirituall church but entyre spirituall bodies though civilly combined into a diocesan government Neyther is the principall worship performed at the cathedrall church as it was in the temple but in the parrish assemblies themselves In the second head ther is but one quaestiō moved that is vvhether a mā fitted invvardly called to the ministery being persvvaded in his heart that a lavvfvll outvvard calling vvithout sin in the enterance continuāce can not be had in the church of England vvhether such a man be not bound in conscience to seek out procure another church c. I ans 1. That inward calling is not ordinarily to be built upon without some outward approbation doeth confirme it 2. A lawfull outward calling is had enioyed in many churches of England 3. He that cannot enter in one place without sin yet hath his heart so fully set unto the ministery that he cannot haue peace without that function ought as I think to take any good occasion of removing into some other place of more freedome To the demands in the 3 4 head I haue answered before that preaching is necessarily required by the natur of a ministers office in England some ruling is exercised by those that make conscience of their duty and unto this function men are not called meerely by the prelat These 4 conditions therfore so farr as they are of absolute necessitie for a true ordinary minister of Christ are manifestly to be found in many assemblies of England Which also Mr. R. in a manner granteth in confessing that there are to be found in the parochiall ministery men apt to teach unreproveable in conversation having an invvard calling from God that is a holy disposition desire to administer the gospell of Christ to the glory of God furtherance of mās salvation For this is the 2. condition which he acknowledgeth to be found in the parochial ministery And can any charitable aequall minde receyve into it self this thought that so many mē of so good knowledg syncere conscience should be so far forsaken of God all the time of their life and that one generatiō after another as not onely to cōtinue in Babilon as members of Antichrist but to bow downe ordinarily give spiritual honour to so many hatefull idols exalted above all that is called God as these men doe telus of in the English assemblies or if Mr. R. did inwardly beleeve that they lived in such continuall practise of idolatrie as he doeth in words accuse them of would he account them unreproveable men in their conversation without any exception annexed I say no more but God grant me that comfort which many of them haue had in their unreproveablenes and more to Mr. R. then he can possiblie finde in such kind of reproving or rather slandering of them Amen Sec. 1. Manumis p. 3. Publicus quasi populicus S. 2. Sec. 3. Sec. 4. Pag. 7. Sec. 5. Sec. 6. Sec. 7. Sec. 8. Sec. 9. Dan. 2. Pag. 5. Sect. 10. Sect. 13. Sec. 12.
A SECOND MANVDVCTION For M r. ROBINSON Or a confirmation of the former in an ansvver to his manumission ANNO DOMINI M. D C. XV. A Second Manuduction For M r. ROBINSON Or a confirmation of the former in an ansvver to his manumission IT is not much to bee merveiled at if one assay praevaileth not with him for publick communion whoe was so hardly drawen unto privat by many long strivings Wee may rather hope that in time he wil bee brought to see reasō for that as wel as for this The successe beeing left unto God I thinck it a Christian part to stretch out a litle strengthen that hand which before was lent him for a manuduction First then must bee marked how farr M. R. is come already and then the points that hee stayeth at with the grounds of that his stay He granteth If a man remayning a member in some parish of England intending the ministerie competently qualified therto having approbation of godly learned men shall vvithout any further calling for a time performe the actions of prayer prophefijing by leave in a publick assembly there that it is lavvfull to communicate vvith him in that vvork And moreover that if the same man shall continue in that course for some yeares not having any further vvarant but the seal vvhich God setteth to his labour in the fruight of it the consent of those people vvhich repaire unto him for instruction it is lavvfull still to have communion vvith him All this he acknowledgeth though not in so plaine a māner as ingenuous dealing requireth in calling of it privat This grant of M. R. is of no small moment in the consequence of it For by vertue therof those of his minde may bee present at many sermons in England upon occasion not onely to the spiritual comfort aedification of their soules but also to the avoyding of much danger damage in their outward estate For of this kinde are a multitude of religious exercises ordinarilie performed by students in the colledges of both the universities whoe are wonte in their colledge chappels to make trial of their giftes though they be not ordeyned ministers not onely there but in such assemblies of the countrie as they haue oportunitie Some also haue been knowen to continue long even for 20 yeeres together in preaching by no other warrant then this as by name M. Flood of Northampton M. Marburie By the same reason it will follow also as by by wee shall see that communion may bee had in the like actions of those which have further authoritie for this communion is of publick nature a church action so for substance of one reason with the other That this doeth follow upon the former grant if so bee that such exercises of religion bee publick actions M. R. doeth well understand therfore to avoyd that which he is loth to acknowledge he denieth such actions to bee of publick nature To this purpose he insinuateth 2 reasons 1. Becaus a privat action may bee performed in a publick place as a publick may in a privat and 2 because no action is publick that is not performed by publick calling or authoritie The former of which I willingly grant and therfore made no such mention of the place as if it were of it self sufficient to make these exercises publick The second I doe flatly denie until I see that reason which as he sayth without any further proofe doeth of it self teach it For this purpose he willeth the reader to see Mr. Perkins in treatise of christian equity where nothing is to be found that perteyneth unto this purpose For there Mr. P. speaketh onely of such publick actiōs as are usually called actions of lavv wherin publick justice is quaestioned the mitigation wherof perteyneth unto that christian equitie which there is handled such as execution of penall statutes suing of bondes taking forfeitures fines are If he would know Mr. Perkins his judgement about this point let him see to the purpose his treatise of divine or religious worship the thing that now is in hand where he shall find this description church service is that vvhich is performed publickly in the congregation of the people of God But leaving his testimonie let us search a litle after that reason which Maister Robinson telleth us will teach us what actions are publick Publick is as much as peoplelick because that which is not restreined unto one or a few but extended as commune to a people eyther civill or ecclesiasticall that is peoplelick or publick Thus some actions doen first in privat and after extending to the knowledge of the people become therby publick scandals though the actors of them haue no publick calling or authoritie for doeing of them Much more are those actions to bee esteemed publick which are performed in a publick place extending to the praesent knowledge or use of the people so intēded whether they bee good or evil in which respect no mā cā denie the prophecies of Zedekiach other his fellowes 2 Crō 18. to have beē as publick as that of Michaia though hee onely not they had lawfull calling or authoritie for that action Those exercises of religion which are ordinarily used in the seperat assemblies called prophecijngs wherein prayers are offered up in the name of all the people the word interpreted unto all they are I think esteemed publick by them selves sure I am they are so however they bee esteemed yet the actors in those businesses have no special set calling or authoritie for that they doe In the time of VVickliffe when many that receyved light of truth from him did upon al occasions publish the same unto others eyther in churches or churchyards or else in markets faires such like open assemblies though they did it without licence of the ordinaries or other sufficient authoritie of that kinde yet they are sayd to preach publikely It is the phraze of king Richards letters against them as is to bee seene in M. foxe p. 406. Like phraze is used in like case by all that write or speake therof So that both by reason custome all good rule of speech it is manifest that these exercises of religion which M. R. granteth lawfull are publick actions and so that not onely privat but also publick communion is by his owne confession lawfull in the parish assemblies of England THus farr then wee haue Mr. R. consenting Now at the third demād hee maketh a stād but with such oppositiō as will not stand The demand was of the same mā whoe formerly did lawfully preach in a publick assemblie if hee should obteyne a licence from the L. Byshop of the diocesse without any unlawfull condition for to continue in that his course whether that leave or licence given doeth pollute the actions seeing a man may ask leave of the great Turk to preach the gospell within his dominions His