Selected quad for the lemma: hand_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
hand_n	bishop_n	ordination_n	presbyter_n	4,322	5	10.6970	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85314	Separation examined: or, a treatise vvherein the grounds for separation from the ministry and churches of England are weighed, and found too light. The practise proved to be not onely unwarrantable, but likewise so hurtful to the churches, that church-reformation cannot with any comfort go forward, so long as such separation is tolerated. Also an humble request presented to the congregational divines, that since the differences between them and the classical-divines are very small they would please to strike in with the classical-divines in carrying on the worke of reformation, before the inundation of these corrupt opinions, have destroyed both ordinances and religion. / By Gi. Firmin minister to the church in Shalford in essex.	Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.	1652 (1652)	Wing F964; Thomason E656_12; ESTC R206624	107,263	123

question_v till_o our_o separatist_n rise_v up_o who_o be_v not_o comparable_a to_o they_o in_o part_n or_o holiness_n 2_o i_o pray_v what_o do_v you_o make_v of_o those_o minister_n who_o be_v ordain_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n 33_o cyp._n epis_n 33_o they_o be_v ordain_v in_o cyprian_n time_n by_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n and_o by_o hieroms_n time_n the_o bishop_n have_v ingross_v that_o power_n into_o their_o own_o hand_n as_o appear_v by_o that_o speech_n of_o he_o except_v ordination_n evagr._fw-la epist_n ad_fw-la evagr._fw-la what_o do_v a_o bishop_n that_o a_o presbyter_n do_v not_o so_o that_o by_o this_o time_n it_o shall_v seem_v that_o the_o presbyter_n be_v turn_v out_o and_o the_o bishop_n only_o ordain_v it_o be_v possible_a this_o may_v be_v but_o in_o some_o church_n for_o the_o four_o council_n of_o carthage_n order_v that_o no_o bishop_n shall_v ordain_v without_o the_o council_n of_o his_o clergy_n can._n 22._o can._n 3._o now_o what_o be_v these_o no_o minister_n anti-christ_n be_v not_o yet_o get_v into_o his_o seat_n for_o the_o year_n of_o his_o reign_n have_v be_v expire_v before_o this_o time_n it_o be_v strange_a that_o those_o shall_v be_v no_o true_a minister_n who_o live_v so_o near_o the_o apostle_n time_n and_o under_o persecution_n also_o as_o in_o cyprian_n time_n neither_o be_v cyprian_n sure_o the_o first_o bishop_n that_o do_v ordain_v for_o there_o be_v bishop_n before_o he_o yea_o beside_o this_o ordination_n by_o bishop_n we_o find_v the_o papist_n contend_v strong_o for_o strange_a rite_n which_o they_o use_v in_o ordination_n and_o they_o say_v they_o be_v also_o use_v in_o those_o primitive_a time_n for_o the_o anoint_v of_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbyter_n that_o be_v ordain_v this_o they_o will_v prove_v from_o cyprian_a or_o at_o least_o the_o author_n of_o the_o card._n work_n of_o ch._n who_o show_v l_n seem_v to_o be_v as_o old_a as_o cyprian_a also_o from_o eusebius_n hist_o eccles_n l._n 10._o c._n 4._o which_o place_n will_v seem_v to_o favour_v it_o and_o other_o there_o be_v who_o they_o quote_v see_v greg._n de_fw-fr val._n to_o 4._o d._n 9_o q._n 5._o also_o for_o the_o shave_n of_o the_o head_n of_o their_o minister_n this_o we_o find_v indeed_o in_o august_n time_n ep._n 26._o &_o ep._n 147._o and_o this_o calvin_n himself_o do_v not_o deny_v to_o have_v be_v use_v then_o and_o give_v the_o reason_n why_o it_o be_v use_v which_o greg._n de_fw-fr val._n scorn_v and_o give_v other_o reason_n to._n 4._o d._n 9_o q._n 5._o p._n 3._o if_o the_o decret_a epistle_n of_o anicetus_n be_v of_o any_o authority_n we_o shall_v find_v it_o in_o his_o day_n long_o before_o augustin_n and_o i_o wonder_v that_o greg._n val._n do_v not_o quote_v he_o i_o be_o apt_a to_o think_v be_v they_o be_v so_o prone_a to_o ceremony_n in_o other_o ordinance_n that_o something_o be_v add_v to_o this_o also_o 27._o just_a l._n 4._o c._n 19_o sect_n 27._o and_o i_o marvel_v that_o in_o the_o four_o council_n of_o carthage_n where_o they_o set_v down_o their_o rite_n in_o ordination_n of_o other_o officer_n and_o some_o very_a ridiculous_a that_o the_o ordination_n of_o presbyter_n shall_v be_v the_o most_o pure_a but_o still_o with_o bishop_n as_o well_o as_o presbyter_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n now_o in_o hand_n 3_o a_o bishop_n if_o you_o consider_v he_o mere_o as_o a_o bishop_n be_v but_o a_o minister_n and_o set_v apart_o to_o do_v the_o work_n of_o a_o minister_n the_o same_o which_o all_o other_o minister_n may_v do_v bishop_n do_v pray_v prithee_o baptise_v administer_v the_o lord_n supper_n ordain_v suspend_v excommunicate_a and_o these_o thing_n other_o minister_n do_v and_o may_v do_v that_o he_o do_v lift_v up_o himself_o above_o other_o minister_n that_o be_v his_o error_n that_o he_o will_v take_v upon_o he_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o ordination_n and_o excommunication_n this_o be_v his_o error_n but_o as_o the_o addition_n of_o a_o human_a invention_n do_v not_o null_a the_o ordinance_n as_o suppose_v only_o grow_v person_n have_v be_v baptize_v and_o that_o by_o dip_v and_o after_o dip_v they_o have_v be_v sign_v with_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n will_v this_o have_v null_v the_o ordinance_n in_o the_o anabaptist_n esteem_n no_o more_o this_o usurpation_n of_o the_o power_n of_o administer_a these_o ordinance_n do_v null_a a_o bishop_n so_o as_o he_o be_v no_o minister_n the_o ordinance_n be_v and_o be_v christ_n institution_n indeed_o you_o may_v call_v he_o a_o overgrown_a presbyter_n but_o a_o presbyter_n 10._o 3_o ep._n joh_n ver_fw-la 10._o diotrophe_n love_v of_o pre-eminence_n do_v just_o deserve_v reproof_n and_o john_n do_v no_o doubt_n deal_v with_o he_o but_o yet_o for_o present_a do_v not_o deny_v he_o to_o be_v a_o minister_n though_o a_o corrupt_a one_o for_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o ordination_n they_o tell_v we_o it_o be_v the_o order_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o of_o the_o council_n of_o carthage_n that_o when_o a_o presbyter_n be_v ordain_v all_o the_o presbyter_n that_o be_v present_a shall_v lay_v hand_n as_o for_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o excommunication_n though_o it_o be_v a_o error_n gross_a enough_o yet_o by_o the_o 17._o canon_n council_n sardic_n nice_a ofius_n who_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o that_o ganon_z be_v make_v be_v also_o at_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a it_o shall_v seem_v the_o bishop_n by_o that_o time_n have_v get_v that_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v alone_o which_o canon_n provide_v a_o remedy_n for_o a_o person_n wrongsul_o excommunicate_v by_o his_o bishop_n to_o get_v relief_n by_o appeal_v now_o if_o that_o corruption_n have_v get_v in_o so_o early_o long_o before_o anti-christ_n have_v get_v to_o his_o seat_n no_o wonder_n though_o it_o be_v find_v among_o our_o bishop_n yet_o i_o hope_v they_o be_v true_a minister_n who_o they_o ordain_v as_o a_o bishop_n be_v a_o lord_n bishop_n his_o lordship_n be_v but_o a_o mere_a civil_a addition_n annex_v to_o the_o bishopric_n by_o regallfavour_n his_o lordship_n be_v no_o ingredient_n into_o ordination_n 4_o the_o law_n of_o this_o realm_n do_v account_v nothing_o divine_a in_o a_o bishop_n but_o his_o be_v a_o presbyter_n 85._o lond._n vind_z 125._o dr._n seam_n answ_n to_o diat_v p._n 85._o and_o therefore_o the_o parliament_n in_o their_o ordinance_n for_o ordination_n tell_v we_o that_o they_o do_v ordain_v as_o presbyter_n not_o as_o bishop_n much_o less_o as_o lord_n bishop_n yea_o i_o have_v hear_v a_o reverend_a minister_n now_o pastor_n of_o a_o congregationall_a church_n in_o essex_n say_v that_o when_o the_o bishop_n ordain_v he_o he_o tell_v he_o i_o do_v ordain_v you_o as_o i_o be_o a_o presbyter_n 5_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n be_v ready_a to_o acknowledge_v those_o defect_n and_o corruption_n which_o do_v cleave_v to_o their_o enter_v into_o the_o ministry_n by_o the_o bishop_n hear_v their_o own_o word_n 124._o london_n vindica_fw-la p._n 124._o we_o do_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o the_o way_n of_o minister_n enter_v into_o the_o ministry_n by_o the_o bishop_n have_v many_o defect_n in_o it_o for_o which_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v humble_v but_o we_o add_v that_o notwithstanding_o all_o the_o accidental_a corruption_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o substantial_o and_o essential_o corrupt_v they_o acknowledge_v then_o the_o error_n and_o desire_v to_o be_v humble_v for_o it_o what_o more_o will_v you_o have_v god_n will_v accept_v of_o this_o i_o doubt_v not_o and_z why_o not_o you_o how_o to_o mend_v dr._n seaman_n divinity_n i_o know_v not_o where_o you_o have_v also_o the_o error_n acknowledge_v implicit_o for_o it_o be_v in_o answer_n to_o this_o objection_n then_o give_v his_o judgement_n in_o the_o case_n when_o sin_n cleave_v to_o the_o manner_n of_o call_v 85._o answer_v to_o diat_v p._n 85._o through_o the_o general_a error_n or_o corruption_n of_o all_o sort_n of_o people_n who_o be_v concern_v in_o it_o etc._n etc._n it_o be_v nototherwise_o to_o be_v invalidate_v here_o below_o then_o by_o doctrinal_a censure_n and_o repentance_n and_o not_o by_o iteration_n repentance_n through_o christ_n blood_n do_v take_v away_o corruption_n out_o of_o god_n fight_n and_o will_v it_o not_o when_o they_o be_v so_o ingenuous_a out_o of_o your_o sight_n 6_o there_o be_v a_o maxim_n take_v up_o among_o the_o independent_o according_o many_o may_v true_o bear_v the_o name_n yea_o they_o own_v it_o and_o practice_v according_o yea_o and_o other_o and_o it_o go_v for_o as_o good_a divinity_n as_o any_o the_o gospel_n have_v viz._n that_o error_n in_o nonfundamentals_a must_v be_v bear_v withal_o in_o church_n we_o must_v labour_v indeed_o to_o convince_v people_n of_o such_o but_o if_o they_o will_v not_o be_v so_o convince_v we_o must_v not_o

than_o i_o desire_v no_o more_o if_o they_o be_v so_o far_o minister_n as_o to_o administer_v baptism_n to_o you_o than_o they_o may_v well_o administer_v ordination_n to_o we_o renounce_v therefore_o the_o baptism_n you_o have_v by_o they_o so_o i_o be_o sure_a you_o can_v ordain_v and_o when_o you_o be_v regular_o re-baptised_n and_o can_v warrant_v your_o act_n and_o prove_v that_o you_o have_v the_o power_n to_o ordain_v than_o we_o will_v listen_v to_o you_o for_o my_o own_o ordination_n it_o be_v in_o the_o face_n of_o my_o people_n the_o day_n be_v spend_v in_o fast_v and_o prayer_n those_o who_o carry_v on_o the_o work_n be_v mr._n dan._n rogers_n mr._n martial_n mr._n ranew_o with_o other_o godly_a minister_n who_o join_v with_o they_o in_o the_o impose_v of_o hand_n the_o minister_n live_v about_o i_o i_o never_o see_v that_o ordinance_n carry_v on_o with_o more_o solemnity_n in_o my_o life_n the_o people_n show_v their_o election_n by_o suffrage_n hold_v up_o their_o hand_n all_o be_v do_v according_a to_o the_o pattern_n but_o yet_o i_o be_o a_o man_n as_o much_o scorn_v as_o other_o man_n who_o be_v ordain_v by_o bishop_n i_o can_v submit_v to_o god_n in_o that_o scorn_n that_o these_o cast_n upon_o i_o for_o i_o deserve_v it_o at_o his_o hand_n only_a there_o be_v a_o foul_a error_n commit_v at_o my_o ordination_n and_o it_o be_v tell_v up_o and_o down_o by_o some_o of_o this_o kind_n against_o who_o i_o write_v and_o i_o pray_v what_o be_v it_o this_o the_o minister_n impose_v hand_n in_o my_o ordination_n this_o have_v be_v talk_v of_o as_o a_o strange_a thing_n but_o let_v i_o answer_v for_o the_o minister_n it_o be_v no_o error_n much_o less_o such_o a_o great_a one_o as_o you_o make_v it_o 1_o if_o private_a man_n carpenter_n and_o tailor_n may_v impose_v hand_n why_o may_v not_o minister_n but_o the_o former_a have_v do_v it_o ergo._n 2_o all_o the_o ordination_n that_o ever_o i_o see_v in_o new_a england_n be_v perform_v with_o imposition_n of_o hand_n i_o have_v see_v deacon_n ordain_v thus_o 3_o if_o you_o be_v wise_a than_o the_o elder_n in_o new_a england_n 74._o answ_n to_o the_o 32._o que_fw-la p._n 67._o survey_v of_o church_n dise_z p._n 2._o p._n 74._o and_o master_n hooker_n then_o overthrow_v they_o for_o they_o conceive_v it_o near_o to_o the_o institution_n 4_o if_o you_o observe_v the_o example_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n which_o be_v our_o guide_n in_o church_n affair_n we_o shall_v find_v ordination_n have_v be_v thus_o perform_v as_o act_n 6.6_o act._n 13.3_o 1_o tim._n 4.14_o 1_o tim._n 5.22_o heb._n 6.2_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n which_o place_n by_o classical_a man_n congregationall_a man_n and_o separatist_n be_v interpret_v of_o ordination_n i_o do_v not_o here_o bring_v in_o the_o practice_n of_o church_n in_o former_a time_n because_o i_o intend_v not_o to_o handle_v the_o controversy_n whether_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v necessary_o require_v in_o ordination_n but_o bring_v you_o in_o as_o many_o example_n from_o scripture_n where_o there_o be_v minister_n ordain_v without_o imposition_n of_o hand_n as_o also_o the_o practice_n of_o other_o true_a church_n orthodox_n and_o sound_n who_o do_v ordain_v without_o etc._n etc._n or_o else_o be_v ashamed_a of_o your_o ignorance_n and_o charge_v not_o those_o man_n with_o error_n where_o none_o be_v but_o a_o true_a follow_v the_o pattern_n the_o substance_n and_o essence_n then_o of_o ordination_n be_v this_o that_o person_n qualify_v ministerial_o be_v set_v apart_o or_o separate_v for_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n by_o person_n in_o office_n ordinary_o it_o must_v be_v thus_o what_o may_v be_v do_v extraordinary_o when_o no_o officer_n can_v be_v have_v be_v another_o case_n the_o minister_n in_o england_n have_v that_o ordinance_n for_o the_o substance_n and_o they_o have_v the_o election_n and_o consent_n of_o the_o people_n it_o be_v hardly_o to_o be_v suppose_v that_o every_o individual_a person_n in_o a_o parish_n will_v consent_v to_o every_o godly_a minister_n but_o consent_v there_o be_v hence_o these_o two_o concur_v to_o the_o call_v which_o be_v the_o form_n of_o a_o minister_n many_o presbyterial_a minister_n be_v true_a minister_n i_o dare_v say_v more_o but_o i_o be_o sure_a now_o i_o save_v myself_o but_o i_o have_v not_o do_v with_o ordination_n yet_o i_o shall_v meet_v with_o it_o once_o again_o afterward_o let_v we_o now_o come_v and_o try_v the_o second_o ground_n for_o separation_n scil_n the_o worship_n of_o god_n the_o fault_n here_o must_v be_v reduce_v to_o one_o of_o these_o three_o head_n either_o 1_o because_o they_o can_v enjoy_v all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n in_o these_o church_n or_o 2_o because_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n be_v mix_v with_o humane_a invention_n that_o they_o can_v partake_v of_o they_o without_o sin_n or_o 3_o because_o here_o be_v other_o ordinance_n set_v up_o in_o the_o church_n then_o ever_o christ_n do_v institute_v i_o can_v conceive_v any_o more_o for_o the_o first_o suppose_v it_o be_v so_o that_o there_o be_v a_o defect_n of_o some_o ordinance_n be_v that_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o separation_n mr._n hooker_n say_v no._n if_o a_o father_n of_o a_o family_n want_v a_o rod_n in_o his_o house_n discip_n the_o preface_n to_o survey_v of_o church_n discip_n be_v it_o ergo_fw-la no_o family_n there_o may_v be_v some_o disorder_n in_o the_o house_n for_o want_v of_o good_a government_n yet_o a_o family_n divers_a divine_n of_o great_a note_n conceive_v by_o that_o text_n nehem._n 8.17_o 18._o that_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n do_v omit_v the_o celebration_n of_o the_o feast_n of_o tabernacle_n almost_o the_o space_n of_o a_o thousand_o year_n the_o ark_n be_v absent_a from_o the_o tabernacle_n from_o the_o time_n of_o eli_n to_o the_o time_n of_o david_n 1_o sam._n 4.11_o compare_v with_o 2_o sam._n 6_o 17._o and_o it_o be_v a_o great_a fault_n the_o scribe_n reject_v the_o baptism_n of_o john_n but_o where_o do_v you_o find_v any_o separation_n all_o this_o while_n that_o the_o godly_a shall_v not_o join_v with_o that_o church_n and_o partake_v in_o what_o ordinance_n they_o have_v but_o this_o objection_n have_v no_o place_n in_o these_o church_n for_o prayer_n preach_v administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n yea_o discipline_n they_o have_v in_o the_o episcopal_a day_n they_o do_v suspend_v from_o the_o lord_n supper_n and_o the_o bishop_n give_v the_o minister_n power_n but_o suspension_n be_v the_o lesser_a excommunication_n and_o now_o to_o be_v sure_a there_o be_v none_o want_v at_o least_o shall_v not_o be_v if_o the_o minister_n be_v not_o hinder_v in_o set_v up_o all_o the_o ordinance_n obj._n no_o say_v you_o the_o classical_a church_n have_v no_o explicit_a covenant_n for_o the_o form_n of_o they_o they_o will_v not_o admit_v it_o into_o their_o church_n therefore_o we_o separate_v i_o shall_v meet_v with_o this_o in_o another_o place_n only_o for_o the_o present_a disprove_v what_o mr._n hooker_n have_v say_v and_o the_o former_a example_n i_o have_v give_v you_o but_o yet_o you_o will_v have_v a_o hard_a piece_n of_o work_n to_o prove_v this_o to_o be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o your_o separation_n as_o afterward_o i_o hope_v i_o shall_v make_v good_a for_o the_o second_o humane_a mixture_n in_o ordinance_n this_o indeed_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o the_o old_a separatist_n yet_o in_o those_o day_n many_o holy_a and_o learned_a divine_n write_v against_o the_o separation_n but_o in_o these_o day_n that_o stumble_a block_n be_v remove_v and_o this_o let_v i_o say_v that_o if_o you_o read_v over_o all_o the_o church-story_n since_o there_o be_v a_o church_n upon_o the_o earth_n there_o can_v be_v find_v any_o example_n of_o such_o separatist_n as_o be_v now_o among_o we_o the_o old_a donatist_n have_v their_o minister_n yea_o bishop_n as_o well_o as_o presbyter_n the_o separate_a church_n of_o late_a day_n have_v their_o minister_n and_o how_o strict_o do_v they_o maintain_v and_o practice_v all_o those_o ordinance_n which_o we_o laugh_v at_o as_o sing_v of_o psalm_n infant-baptism_n observation_n of_o the_o sabbath_n and_o such_o opinion_n as_o those_o learned_a and_o godly_a man_n mr._n ainsworth_n robinson_n johnson_n do_v abhor_v be_v swallow_v down_o among_o we_o so_o that_o these_o man_n can_v ground_v their_o practice_n from_o any_o example_n heretofore_o and_o as_o for_o the_o scripture_n if_o they_o can_v find_v any_o ground_n there_o i_o must_v confess_v i_o be_o altogether_o ignorant_a in_o the_o scripture_n suppose_v there_o shall_v be_v some_o human_a mixture_n though_o for_o my_o part_n i_o know_v of_o none_o be_v all_o the_o ordinance_n so_o pollute_v preach_v and_o prayer_n be_v keep_v pure_a in_o the_o episcopal_a day_n