man and wife till the Solemnity Let these also first be proved then let them use the Office In short as at first They may be both I suppose held to be coram Deo upon consent only what they are not coram hominibus before publick confirmation 8. However we understand these words this methinks might give a reasonable man satisfaction that it fares with us but as with the Apostles themselves Christ had before given them ministerial power for they did preach and baptized while they continued with him Jo. 4.2 and yet does he use this same form of words that seems no lesse than a new Commission Nay that which is yet more as Christ used this form but once and that at their second mission So is it with us the Presbyterian used it not at first and we have it without repetition 9. I will suppose what is supposed that Receive the Holy Ghost is equivalent with Take thou Authority and understand it of the ministerial power and consequently that there is moreover here a formal delivery of that Authority or Office to a Person so that he may be said to be made a Minister thereby as he was not eo modo before and yet let us but understand also this aright as we ought that it is all done only by way of external investiture or solemnization as it is in the inauguration of Princes who are said to be made Kings when they are Crowned or Annoynted and there is no hurt at all comes to our Cause at last which from thence indeed may have but the more clear demonstration how the thing may without any absurdity in the world be done more than once This I take to be the common Protestant doctrine and rest upon it There remains now but one thing more that after all this may beget some scruple and that is the instrument of our Orders There is that of the Deaconship which if one does not like he may be civil to the Bishops Officers and leave For the other of Presbyter which is needfull for him to have if it will not satisfie him that they are the Bishops words not ours I will suppose he hath declamed himself before and the instrument is in his own hands I shall say no more but for my own part my Orders of Deacon as quite uselesse otherwise I thought good to cancell before whom it seemed to me fit in testimony of my owning my former Ministry and for those of Presbyter which I keep if any should chance to see them they may find these words in the backside or bottom of them I was ordained so long since by a Classis of the Presbytery and doubt not therefore of being a Minister before yet do these Orders make me so secundum ritus ecclesiae Anglicanae Canonicè legitime according to this express tenour as I was not before and in that sense only have I submitted to the same To conclude If there was another form whereby our Ministry might be confirmed or some Bishops would vary this to serve a private turn then were the Items my Adversary hath given us sufficient to make us to choose and seek that rather than yield hereunto for so far does his arguing reach even in full force but while there is no such thing to be had it makes it methinks a very high imagination ever to enter the heart of a serious Christian if he can find it there too to have his Brethren of the same mind with him to think that he and they should be ready to leave their holy Function and Charge without some other conjoyned grand reason rather than to bear with a little unhandsomness from our Superiours for their Constitution 's sake in the impropriety only of a formality which is not neither a matter of worship and so as it is said of Daniâ—l a matter of our God but a matter or ceremony of Order only We can never indeed be too tender of displeasing the Lord but let us take heed we do not displease him by our fear that he will be displeased without reason from his Precepts Is 29.13 Alas What do we make of God Almighty I cannot but call to mind a passage of Plutarch De Superstitione where he is saying that that man is lesse impious qui opinatur nullos esse deos quam qui tales esse credit qualâ—s superstitiosus I had rather sayes he it should be said there is no Plutarch at all quam hoc dici esse Plutarchum hominem ad iram pronum vindictae ob levissimas causas cupidum ob minima quaeque indignantem Do we believe God indeed is gracious kind and most wisely tender to his Children and can we think that when he bears with their Infirmities he will not consider reason and their necessity The Lord Jesus we know did expresly excuse his Disciples breach of the Jews Sabbath and Davids eating the Shewbread so long as there was occasion Substantial duties must overrule Ceremonialls And if we may guesse by this and Pauls conforming for his Ministry's sake so often to the Jews there is haply much more may be submitted to than some think in the case of superiour reason Let a man tend the main at his heart God hath set him upon and he is not like to be unaccepted in these matters See 1 K. 15.5 2 Ch. 30.19 Mat. 9.13 Neither are we to conceive under the Gospel that the Lord hath injoyned every thing to a pinne as in Moses Tabernacle When some good men shall come to have more noble and evangelical apprehensions of the Almighty and have rouled their thoughts but once over the several formes rites or modes he hath been a serving withal for these sixteen hundred years all abroad the whole Christian world they may perhaps be brought to blush inwardly at the poornesse of such understandings that would narrow the infinite to their complections He hath shewed thee O man what is good and what doeth the Lord require of thee but to do justly to love mercy and to walk humbly with thy God SECTION IV. HAving demolished these two Forts in general which are the shelter of my adversary there are two arguments only in particular which he offers the one is from authority and the other from the third Commandement For authority He first quotes the 67. Canon of the apostles which I have my self mentioned Unto which I shall only produce him by way of answer another of the same Presbyter ab uno Episcopo ordinetur Can. 2. Here I must put himself upon a solution if he comes off in another question he handles in his book which concerns others and he hath done it effectually by a verdict of a Synod of Rome it self An. 494. that these Canons nullatenus recipit Catholica Ecclesia He pleads farther the practise of our English Church which does not re-ordain a popish Minister nor those formerly that were ordained beyond the Seas unto which he addes the story of Archbishop Bancroft which you
dedicate himself to this service before him as an Outward and solemn by Ordination which whether it be Presbyterial of Episcopal it is all alike as to what the word requires but is not accepted alike in our present Church which stands upon her proper form and mode of Government I will enlarge a little here There is a Fundamental right as Presbyterians say and I believe in every Minister to Ordain others according to that rule which is dignified by a great Pen Ordinis est conferre ordines Nevertheless when the Church came to see it good for the avoiding of faction and keeping peace to give a preheminence to the Bishop above the Presbyter there is no reason but the Presbyter upon consent might as to the actual exercise hereof de jure suo cedere so as to Ordain none without the Bishop which comming more and more into debate it is no wonder if you begin at the second Canon of the Apostles and goe over all the Councils and Fathers and find this still the allowed prerogative of the Bishop to have the power of Ordination according to that which is so well known of Cassander Convenit inter omnes on Apostolorum aetate inter Episcopos Presbyteros nullum discrimen fuisse sed postmodum Schismatis evitandi causâ Episcopum Presbyteris fuisse praepositum cut chirotonia id est ordinandi potestas concessa est Now forasmuch as the authority of Councils or Fathers is received or not received of particular Churches according to their proper concernments and complexion As Presbytery hath served her self of the Scripture to the neglect hereof It cannot be expected but Episcopacy should serve her turn likewise of Antiquity which being added to present power must needs discountenance other Orders and if they come once not to be received and owned the ground is laid for their refreshment or iteration I remember in the Council of Nâ—ce we have this Canon Can. 17. Si quis ausus fuerit aliquem qui ad alterum pertinet ordinare in sua ecclesia cum non habeat consensum Episcopi ipsius à quo recessit Clericus irrita erit hujusmodiordinatio Let me ask here any Divine Presbyterian or Episcopal Suppose a man ordained by another Bishop than his own and without his leave is that man truly ordained or no There are none in our dayes will deny it and yet according to these Canons such a mans Ordination was null and consequently if he would enjoy the use of his Ministry under his Bishop he must be re-ordained Now let any learned man tell me how such Ministers in this case could submit to that Canon in those dayes which no doubt but most did submit to seeing that Council was so authentique in the word and then will our case be also opened and justified to my hands In short it is sufficient for the Church to receive a man as a Minister that is Ordained only by the Presbytery as of old by any Bishop as their own according to Scripture which knows no difference between Bishop and Bishop or Bishop and Presbyter in this case but it would and will not serve according to Ecclesiastical constitution Let us now see what my Opposer sayes here and it is the same only he hath every where If the Presbyterial ordination leave a man not capable of having any thing conferr'd on him but only the free use of his Ministry in the English Church why will he submit to such a form as was purposely instituted to conferr the very Ministry it self why are such prayers put up to God as suppose him to be no Minister This is answered already and we see the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the same still There is no form to be conceived such as to confer the Ministry it self unto any or to put up Prayers that a man may be made a Minister as he conjectures and speaks p. 68. I doe therefore produce him the very words of this form to serve my turn Take thou authority to preach the Word and minister the Sacraments where thou shalt be appointed which are so apt as if they wâ—re studied to ordain a man not to the Office but to the Work only of his place Hereunto he candidly gainsays nothing only tells us there are more words used than these to wit Receive the Holy Ghost whose sins yee remit c. unto which words in particular and the form in general I have spoken at large at first What I must say over again to answer him as I go along is Our Ordainers must not be look'd upon according to this Author as Creators of the Ministerial power which is given alone by Jesus Christ but as the signifiers and approvers of his Will and Grant There is indeed one grand Warrant I must say Commission or Charter from Christ in general empowring them who are qualified as his word describes to be his Ministers The Ordainers now are to enquire whether a person have these qualifications that is as it were whether he be in the Commission and then if he be found there what they doe besides is but the declaring this by the solemnity The Commission then or Ministry it self is from our Lord and Orders doe but give the same its free passage in the Church where a man is Now this passage is hindred by the change of the times and therefore the Right Reverend as he speaks is troubled to remove this hindrance and so not to doe only what is already done He is troublâ—d not to make a man again a Minister of Christ but a Canonical Minister if you will of our Church that is to make him passe for such according to their Lawes and Canons when else he cannot pass and therefore is this also done by that form so prescribed the words whereof which stick we are to conceive with all forms of Orders else must be interpreted only as I have said to be declarative not operative of our power by way of investiture possession or solemnization Even as it is in the inauguration of Princes which as I have but now instanced in David above and Solomon before may be valid at first and yet done over again to establish them more formally or legally amongst their people I will take a little liberty here of more words Ordination I count is the confirmation declaration and solemn allowance of a mans Ministry by our chief Pastors and Rulers that may give us the value and recepâ—ion as Ministers to all intents in the Church particularly for the execution of our charge where we are Now there being none according to the form of our English Church and Nation of authority to doe this but the Bishops though our former Orders have been sufficient hitherto and are yet good as to our Right yet growing insufficient through this change or enervate as to the effect the renewal of them according to the present Polity unless there be some mysterious danger in submitting at all hereto does become
erit Servus tuus J. H. SECTION XI AFter the finishing this second Discourse upon this Subject there is a third Book come out against me on the same entituled A peaceable enquiry about Re-ordination under an unknown Name like the former I wish rather an acquaintance with the Author to embrace him in my love than to scratch him with my Pen whom I receive as another person of learning industry candour and worth I am now from my Study and Bookes and cannot bestow that time and examination upon his labours as they require I shall sit down only as it were and looking over his leaves point out the answers to what concerns me in it which I have given already to the former Author His Book hath six Chapters In the first p. 1. ad 5. he premises twenty Distinctions which may pass In his second he lâ—ies down as many Propositions p. 6. ad 20. whereof three only require my animadversion Prop. 5. He cites learned Authors on both sides some desining Ordination only to be a publick approbation and confirmation and others a protestative mission or collation of Office-power and then tells us we may call it either of these provided we will acknowledge it to have the force of a Condition or causa sine quâ non of that power Unto which I have this to say that if this person had bestowed as many thoughts to compound these two Opinions and shew us how they may stand together as he hath shewed kindness in granting both of them to us he might boâ—h have saved himself some labour and made us more beholding to him See ante p. 16. where you have this same thing pre-conceived by my self There is his 14th distinction therefore he hath laid down as idle and without use in him that may take its place here to wit This Ministerial power may be considered in foro Dei or conscientiae and in foro humaâ—o They are his own terms if he had but been so happy also to apply them See ante Sect. 3. p. 30. In the first consideration I have said there a man hath this power and must have it before Orders and so his first Argument p. 11 12. from the Coronation of a King and Elected Magistrate will make for us and shew him how Investiture follows the Office and not gives it In the second consideration we will acknowledge it that ordinarily extra casum necessitatis it come by Orders and so his next two Arguments p. 13. are answered to wit It is not enough that a man is qualified and desires the Office But being Ordained he becomes a Mâ—â—ister as he was not before In this sense be it granted him that Orders is a Condition as he would have it which being put Office power does follow and being denyed is suspenced to wit coram hominibus as to the Church And so that question which he asks Are all Prophets are all Teachers is so far from posing of us that we shall not need to answer him only And have all gifts although while the Apostle 1 Cor. 12. with Ro. 12. makes the Gifts and Office to be Commâ—nsuraâ—e that wâ—re enough But we can say farther when a man hath the Gift and spiritual Power from God yet hath he not his right of Reception before Men till his Orders It is Orders I will account my self gives a person his Church-Authority and transferts him ab esse Laico ab esse Clericale if you will in her Court. And this I hope does cut those in the hamm quite that will be running before they be sent to wit before they be sent by the Church And yet while in foro Dei a man hath his Gifts and Office and so is a Minister before in that respect this Gentleman I hope will stand to his word that there is not then so much intrinsecal to the Ordinance which may hinder its repetition I pray let us suâ—pose a pious laborious worthy Minister that hath exercised the Ministry many years upon approbation only of an Assembly I might instance in Mr. Bruce ante p. 71. or in one perhaps of eminent note for this particular at home not Ordained Presbyter till the Bishops now came in Let me ask any sober-spirited man hereupon whether such a ones Ministerial Acts for ten a dozen years or more past were all ipso facto null and void and whether he believe really that such a man could have no spiritual power derived to him from Christ for that service whereby there are so many probably have been edified What maps heart could serve him to say this The direct clear contrary voâ—e whâ—râ—unto in Mr. Bruce his case you have had before and for my part if I could once believe so I might at next turn believe also that the hands of a Bishop alone laid on a mans head shall setch dow the Holy Ghost or this spiritual effect upon him streight when the hands and prayers of twenty Presbyters can do nothing After which I were fitted to believe even what you would have next And yet shall we leave open a gapp here as may let in consuon into the Ministry No there is a middle and right way to be taken and that is as I judge what I have proposed in this Distinction thus applied which I therefore humbly offer to the sober in heart to consider of and as for his other Arguments that follow p. 14. out of the London Divines they are answered ante Sect. 5. p. 48. to 51. Prop. 8. and Prop. 15. Methinks although it be true that the Bishop in his account does Ordain a man again to the Office and will look on it as a proper Ordination the man himself yet may take it having I will suppose a call to a new place as an Ordination to a particular work or otherwise as a regular confirmation only of his former Ministry and so declare it resolutely when he does it Why may he not blend in practice what this man distinguishes in notion And as for the Form only which is but mans composure what if it be a little mis-used so long as it will serve that turn in some sort we take it for though it were framed indeed at first for another Even as a Key we know sometimes will serve to openâ— two or three Locks when it was at first hammer'd out for one of them only His next Chapter contains twenty argumentative interrogations unto which I will say in general If the Office-power a Minister hath given him coram Ecclesia by Orders which is I count in it self nothing else but the repute of us as Ministers or reception in that relation as we stand in before toward God being called of him be to be put in the predicament of Relation that one axiome only Mâ—ltiplicatis terminis multiplicantur relationes may serve to un-wind this Author out of many of those intricacies he hath thought good to twist himself in in this third Chapter See ante p. 17. In
receive the power and then put him solemnly into possession This is what is clear and well but there is a little more needfull to make it full Although in this businesse of the Magistrate which is Civil where the authority is of man and the officers officers of men it is enough to look no further then men and an outward court onely yet in the businesse of the Ministry where the authority is spiritual and the officers appointed the officers immediately of Jesus Christ and not of man we are to look further unto God and his inward court also and account that a man hath and must have his authority first in his sight before he hath it in mans and consequently what is done in mans court is by the way of Ministry signifying his will for the declaration or confirmation thereof with us to wit The right faculty authority or commission which a man hath coram Deo and the court of his own conscience as being truly called of God is allowed or approved by this publick testimony of the Church so that he is received reckoned or numbred as it is said of Matthias amongst the Ministers of Christ which is the very direct and proper effect of this external act of investiture and solemnization I will take an eminent passage from Mr Hooker who must be forced to understand here with us The cause why we breath not as Christ did on them unto whom he imparted power is for that neither spirit nor spiritual authority may be thought to proceed from us which are but delegates or assigns to give men possession of his graces Ec. Pol. p. 431. And here then I shall humbly call in my Episcopal fathers and brethren who have been apt to wonder at me in my first sheets that I should hold that Orders does not give the Ministerial power when they may rather wonder at themselves that they should think it wheras such a person as this who was as like as any by the rest of his discourse to maintain it if he durst does disclaim it as the doctrine of the Papists by their practise who do breath on the person whom they ordain as Christ did and not as the belief of our Church And as for the delegation and assignment he speaks of his meaning is expresse enough to be no other then as when a Lord does give or grant an estate to a person he sends his servant to use those Ceremonies which are to signifie that grant of his by way of delivery upon which he is received as the owner and possessor thereof I will expresse it fully for him with a concluding passage from the aforesaid bright author Ordination is one means conjunct with others for designation of right qualified persons described in the Law of Christ for the reception and exercise of the Ministerial office and the ends of it besides taking care the office fail not are To judge in all ordinary cases of the fitness of persons and To solemnize their admittance by such an investiture as when possession of a house is given by a ministerial delivery of a key or of land by a turf or as a souldier is listed a King crowned Marriage solemnized after consent and title in order to a more solemn obligation and plenary possession Such is Ordination Mr. Baxter p. 149. When the King sends over a Lord Lieutenant into Ireland he hath a power by vertue of that high dignity of making a Knight now while he uses the Ceremonies of dubbing he uses them not as the signification of his Princes will but of his own He acts not here as an Assigne but does it as an act of his own grace We are not to conceive that God hath given such a power to the dignity of a bishop that he may so make Ministers No no their authority as the solid and learned Mr. Perkins before is but a Ministry wherein therefore they must act from God onely as the approvers signifiers or publishers of his will and all those ceremonyes they use are the same externall signification thereof that such a one upon their examination is constituted by him according to his word and Charter to be one of his Ministers and that the Church is to receive him accordingly Now then there must be this will first before the signification of it and the will creates the power immediately The giving the power is one thing with Mr. Hooker most right and the external investiture or delivery is another But you will say When an Estate or office is given by a person and the delivery made also how can this be done againe I answer the office cannot be again given but the signification that it is given may be again The Lords will is one and the same but the signification of it by outward ceremonies may be various or multiplied The ceremonies of the same consecration Lev. 8.33 are repeated seven dayes together Besides there is a difference in the point of Delivery There is a delivery of possession in the thing it self As if I give one a book and deliver it and there is a delivery by a ceremony only as the token of that possession Here now there may arise controversie whether such a delivery were legal and sufficient or the like and what course then can be best taken to put all out of doubt but to have a new delivery which will be without exception The case is so with us just There is question whether Presbyters be Ordainers and it may be question'd haply more to others purpose whether in their Orders there was not a defect of some words of formall delivery as Take thou authority and if a quiet man then shall take the way to make all sure there is no need that he should understand by those words of the Bishop and the imposition of his hands that he does give him the power and office of a Minister which he hath already but rather that this is not given at all by mortal men but only is indeed a a second time declared or signified before the face of the church as given of God by these external rites of investiture delivery or possession I am sorry to see what a thin vail of words only can cloud mans understanding If I should say that Orders is the solemn delivery of the Ministerial authority to a person by the Bishop as a delegate of Jesus Christ it may be it would be received and yet when I say it is the confirmation of Christs call it is all one but understood with more safety which if it shall appear once in its light to my orthodox Adversary I shall not need to say any thing else in comparison to his satisfaction The whole force of his arguing against me in this thing hee knowes full well does lye in this supposal that Ordination does give the ministerial power and office and is to be taken only to that end Now if the ground does fall from under him here there is
that so cannot be renewed or repeated but the Work may the Work is And if this pious man would not dislike it as he sayes P. 4 if our Bishops when any are removed to a new Charge would call their Presbyters and commend such to the grace of God for their Work by the imposition of hands supposing that Text Act. 13. which I mainly rely upon be warrant sufficient for the same It is not to be thought but another who is I will suppose just so much by assed towards the other side as he is toward his own or poised equally should think it but a small matter to be content moreover that they use their own form seeing they have yet no other and our Reverend Episcopal men do not we know use to do such things as these without their Order appointed Nay if this may be done as to the Work renewed in another place why not I pray also as to the Work repeated in the same supposing at least a man shall not be permitted to use his Ministry without it and otherwise I perswade not the tender to it 3. There is more here barely than this The exercise of our Ministry is not to be considered at large but restrictively as to our Church There is our Ministry and use of it I have said in my Book in our English Church It is to the last only I count we are re-ordained To which purpose we must distinguish of those words of our Authors after preceding valid Ordination Ordination is valid either in fore Scripturarum which is vera only Or in foro Episcopali sive praesentis Ecclesiae which is legalis and Canonical also Our preceding Ordination is valid we believe in the first sense but in the second sense our preceding Ordination is not valid and so it is we are re-ordained I return therefore the Argument If when a mans former Ordination is valid he may not when it is not valid he may be re-ordained but our former Orders are rendred by the change of the present times to be invalid in the sense mentioned and consequently in that sense may we take new and in that sence the form proper thereunto methinks also be born Our Ministry was the same Silver under the Presbytery but the Canonical stamp by the Bishop makes it received according to the constitution of the present Church Even as the State-money though current before must submit to be new coyned for all that or else now it will not goe 4. I say farther hereupon Our taking new Orders is not then the taking an Ordinance to no end nay it is a taking them to a right end the very end which by Orders is to be had Ordination this Author will say is a separating a Person to God For what now I pray why for the Work no doubt whereunto he is or shall be called So in the Text Act. 13. The use then and exercise of the Ministry is the end to which a man is ordained I will explain it by a clear place Numb 8.11 Thou shalt offer the Levites before the Lord compare it with ver 14. and it is Thou shalt separate them that is their Consecration Well mark then what follows that they may execute the service of the Lord There is the end And so ver 15 22 After that they shall go in to do the service of the Tabernacle Now have said though a man cannot be Re-ordained to his Ministry which he hath already yet may he to the use or exercise of it to wit tâ—aâ—h may go into the Tabernacle that he may execute the service of the Lord. You will say haply these Levites and the Ministers are to be consecrate here to have their right to or liberty of doing their holy service in respect of God because God requires this before they enter upon their work but we are separate again now only in respect of man because he requires it or else will not allow this right and liberty to the same I answer this is true and therefore let the Requirers look to it when a person is consecrate already to God and thereupon he expects his service from him it man will hinder let him see how he can answer it but as for the Submitter this is manifest that whether he does this in conscience to Gods command as he must at first or in obedience to his Superiors in the doing it again yet is the end in both the very same and that is only what is most just and honest that he may execute the service of his God that he may have the free use of his Ministry in his place And whether my Author dare say this is to no end or not to the end proper to it I leave it to his own breast to judge 5. There is not this one end only in Orders to seperate or set a man apart for his work but others also to wit there is the invocation of Gods blessing upon us assistance and grace with us in our work which is so certain and plain that when the Holy Ghost had said in one place separate to me in another he tells us they were commended to Gods grace Quid aliud est manuum impositio nisi oratio super bominem sayes St. Austine as he is quoted De Baptis contra Don. l. 3. c. 16. Now this end is repetible I hope and if tâ—ere was nothing else does alone take off the keenenesse of my Opposers edge The Church I think may say her Prayers over twice when Christ said the very same words thrice Matth. 26.44 But to speak exactly and to the touch of the word and truth the separating a man to God for his work and sanctifying him by Prayer is indeed the very same There is therefore another end arising from the nature of the Solemnity that stands me in most stead Ordination I have said does not give the jus or spiritual power to a Minister before God what then it may be demanded does it give why truly I have said it and it is so It does give him his power or authority before men that is his authority comes hereby to be received it does give him the repure and value of a Minister as to all intents in the Church And now for as much as a man cannot reape this effect by vertue of his former Orders he already hath there is as I have said and must say still the very same ground at this season for Re-ordination as for Ordination at first Let my Reader see my first sheets from p. 32. to 37. and though this Gentleman hath quite waved all that concerns this I must confesse my self next to the plain Texts Act. 13.2 Mat. 28.19 I place my chiesest strength there 6. Where things are not unlawfull not forbidden by God why is it not an end sufficient for what we do to obey out Superlors and that they have their end in it supposing them as in chà rity we are bound good men and that they
expedient to us and obliging and obliging without some other greater reason because expedient to us for the sake of the Gospel To advance this yet farther There be some learned men do give much here to the Magistrate Grotius saies Mr. Baxter commendeth the saying of Musculus that would have no Minister question his Call that being qualified hath the Christian Magistrates Commission I observe Grotius himself does allow Confirmation of a Minister distinctly to the Magistrate and Dr. Seaman hath quoted Gerrhard to the same purpose I might I think adde someâ—hing out of Peter Martyr Chemnitius and most others Now if these great men held that Ordination made a Minister the Mâ—gistrate could have no part assigned him at all about that business but if Ordination only declares a mans Ministry If it be Christ alone gives us our Office and man only procures us an outward Authority for repute and reception as Ministers in the Church where we are called which I take it is true then as I doe not doubt but that upon supposition there were no Ministers in a place to ordain the Magistrates allowance is good So do I propose it to be considered whether the Magistrates appointing who shall be Ordainers Presbyters or Bishops may not still determine the validity by either in the Church where he is Sâ—preme and consequently though our Orders before were of force now the pleasure of our Law-givers is otherwise whether we may not be re-ordained upon that accourt This lâ—oâ—er because there may be some consciences perhaâ—s that can act upon such a ground as this when they cannot otherwise though I intend to lay no furâ—her stress upon it I return then to my Opposer who p. 67 68. is hunting some of my exâ—ressions but should do well to take the substance with them I am in my last Proposition there proposing such Scriptures which concern the fift Commandment Our Superiours are to be obeyed in all things 1 Pet 2.13 Col. â— 22 This thing is what they require and impose uâ—on us and that I take therefore to be a plain ground for our submission There is a late book of some tender and learned Diâ—ines concerning the interest of words in prayer who when they have told us p. 72. that what we call the Church of England is nothing else than a company of men by a Civil Power made Bishops and called to advise the State in things concerning Religion do add p. 73. We again say far be it from us to oppose Civil Authority either exercised by Lay-persons or Ecclesiastical persons We further sâ—y we are bound to obey the Civil magistrate in all things in things lawful actually in things unlawful by suffering I do note this passage as that which may do good to many and tend to healing when the rest of that book may make them but very sore to wit that though they should have received such prejudicate and hard thoughts of the Government by Bishops as if they were anti-Câ—ristian against their Covenant or the like yet may they see here how or under what notion they may obey them for all that to wit as the King is Supreme both in causes Ecclesiastical and Civil the Bishops I perceive are taken with them for Magistrates appointed under him in the one as the Judges Justices are in the other so they allow obedience to them is to other Superiours so long as they require only things lawful and that our matter in hand is such it suffices I count that it is no where forbidden in the light of Nature or Scripture directly or consequentially and therefore it is lawful for which I have quoted that known Text Where there is no Law there is no transgression In his rebus sayes Austin de qu bus nihil certi statuit Scriptura instituta majorum pro lege tenenda sunt That which can be supposed to be replied to this is only that it is like the Law forbids the repetition of such an Ordinance and therefore I do clear this by other instances The first was of Marriage which hath been ordinarily by the Magistrate and the Minister both in these times I mâ— seâ—f have had a comple come to me after they were long married and had a child and I made no question to marry them again for the satisfaction of their consciences The like apprehensions therefore I have perceived in me about this matter I see indeed some others are ready to question perhaps whether such who have done thus have done lawfully but why not I pray as well as contract themselves and give their mutual consent fiâ—st and be married after Such a consent de proesenti no doubt does ponâ—re fundamentum relation it so that they are Man and Wife coram Deo thereby and what does the solemnity after but declare them so coram hominibus and give them that account legally in the world Now if this testification be not sufficient but men will account them as unmarried unless it be by a Minister nay suppose the Laws of any place would not allow it otherwise who would advise but they should do it again Nay this is not enough who would advise that they rather part quite leave one another and be no more Man and Wife rather than be married again Such is the case and question of ours in hand for ought I can see and no less in this matter of Re-ordination For the form he objects I answer the impropriety of some words in sâ—ch a case as to the one will not argue and infer the same I hope altogether in the other whereof it suffices that I have spoken before already A second instance I have is of the Oaths of Alleagiance and Supremacy These are taken at our Degrees at our Orders and upon particular occasions as the Law and Magistrate requires and yet cid I never hear any plead against this that it would be taking an Ordinance in vain Holy Bradford the Martyr tells his Judges that he had taken the same Oath against the Pope six times Unto this my Opponent sayes nothing and indeed noâ—hing can be said If that only argument of his varied in words be good that a man cannot be Ordained twice because the end of Ordination is attained as one Administration then a man may not have either of these Oaths twice administred to him because the end to wit the obliging a man to the contents is attained at once and so the Laws and Magistrate that require this on sundry occasions do require the taking Gods Name in vain Let my Author come off here if he can The swearing by Gods Name we know is a solemn Ordinance part of Gods Worshi Deut. 10.20 and if this may be repeated upon the forms of Courts be order of the Law command of our Superiours let this be satisfaction likewise to us that what is in vain as to one end is not so to another that what is in vain in regard of ones self is not in
apprehend it not to be worthy without that need as to me I can be content it be to me but as Ieremics Girdle that is profit me nought whiles I care not to look for any other advantage by it Even as David when he had longed for the Waters of Bethlehem and his Worthies had fetch'd it to him he judged the thing so ill to have hazarded the life of those valiant men upon such an account when it was not on necessiry or for the saving of his own that he laid this pennance at just on that appetite of his that caused it to deny and cross it so that he would not drink thereof but powred it upon the ground I could willingly do something the like with these Orders of mine if I have hazarded any of my worthy Brethrens Consciences by Scandal in the doing It is truly an irksom thought sometimes to me to hear how some of our Bishops do expect not only that a man should be Re-ordained but that we should think our former Ministry to be null too until that be done If this indeed as one might think were personated only it would vex a man to the heart that ever any of us should yield to be so un-ingeniously dealt withall but when we see the real confidence with which they carry it so that for ought I see they do believe themselves verily in it insomuch as some of them when they have done have bid those whom they have Re-ordained to repent of their Ministring the Sacraments before it may overcome out indignation methinks into a melting affection or smile at the conceit and make us bear with them As if indeed the Bishops name were distinguishedly in Christs Charter for Ordination as it is in the Canons of men or as if any should tell me in earnest that the Lawne were de essentia to the Ceremony and the hands availed not without the Sleeves on The truth is while there was some fair and lively hopes of an accommodation between Episopacy and the sober and moderate of the Presbyterians and others according to his Majesties gracious Declaration the business of Conformity according to Primitive Pattern might look something lovel but now it hath pleased those that sit at the Helm of these things to carry their affairs so high that our expectations that way are cut off and the thirsty of the Land after some good issue thereof made to fail I do not know of what consequence the removing from our station at first may be or to what Rock it may come When Paul had presaged the Voyage to be dangerous and the minds of the Shipmen mis-give them themselves though the winds blew softly and the temptation was strong the Centurion did not well to set out or venture on and so leave the fair Havens behind Unless I could be sure my heart would serve me to hold throughout and I could see safety there at the end I will not stand the danger of having gone so far but will rather discount my action and crave mercy than look to be justified by what I have done A Traveller goes on his way and comes to two Ditches he makes a shift to get over one but then seeing another so broad and how deep he knows not he steps back I do perceive I have made so large a stride at once though in a little thing one would think that I have left most of the wary and considerate of my Brethren behind me I mean such at least where necessity or a remove to a new charge hath not made their case more clear than mine was and I am so much convinced of the piety and integrity of many or the most of them that I can be contented methinks that my Soul should be amongst theirs though my eye-sight as yet does differ to fare no otherwise than with them in state and Conscience who have been my former fellows and are yet quite free from all act or acts whatsoever in or about this matter I do consider what I make my Pen to utter and I do beseech the Lord unto whom the secrets and reasons of the heart is known that I may stand in my spirit before him or in my reckoning between him and my Soul however in Mans Court I stand according to the same Not that I will be enslaved to narrow up my faith to their standard or tie up my judgment to any party but I will acknowledge such mens sober practice and good conversation And as for those rules of their life to confess Jesus Christ to take heed of offending any of his little ones to own the grace of God in his Children to preferr in the esteem of heart the power of godliness before the formality and garments of it I cannot but be conâ—iced by them and carry in my mind that exhortation of the Apostle My Brethren have not the faith of Christ in respect of persons in which due regard as Christian what is the Bishop more indeed than the Pawn or the Knight than a single man which though they may in all external honour due to them stand for more upon the board yet must they be but all one in the bagg and in their accounts before the Lord. I know indeed Quod factum est when a thing is done infectum fieri non potest it cannot be undone in the act it self but yet it may in the effect or the effects It is a gracious Text in Ieremy In those dayes and in that time saith the Lord the iniquiy of Israel shall be sought for and there shall be none and the sins of Judah and they shall not be found What we find here was committed but Gods favour and pardon puts them into such an estate that it is as good for them as if there were none or all one in the effect as if it had never been at all When a man shall come to find the same freedom of spirit the same boldness of access in the sight of the Lord the same exercise of Grace to and influence of his Face from him it is all one in the effect toward God When the sad impressions shall be wiped out of his mind when the sanctified experience shall be left and the bitterness be over the regret and torment be no more it is all one in effect towards himself When his blood and courage chearfulness life shall be returned in the sight presence of his Brethren and to the duty of admonishing hearthing and quickening them in the same faith and the same Lord here it is all one in respect of others In short when supposing a man hath taken new Orders but is ready to stand to preservation considered make use of his old being content to fare no otherwise than those that have not or as he should have done before Here methinks they are all one to him as if there were none Were the Ministerial Office given by Orders as the Bishop holds and we in our case took
in the nature of the thing it self and yet so long as this particular reason could not endure any longer than the interval wherein Baptism was administred into Christ to come which is now ceased I am not Trapan'd into Re-baptization as this man Non satis quidem ingenuo vultu does speak but may dis-approve of the same now together with the Catholick Church as well as any other Arg 9. From Christs own Re-ordaining his Apostles To this he speaks p. 111. ad 115. And this indeed I do stand upon and have there fully already prevented all that I think can be opposed and what he hath else may pass only for illustration I suppose he himself will not expect I should add any more See p. 76. ad 80. Arg. 10. From the double 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 upon Timothy mentioned in two Texts in the two Epistles Upon which this Author hath spoken methinks so setly gravely and deliberatively that all I can say is that he hath made me to believe something more probable of that which I took before as possible only And as for the two Authorities of mine he farther quotes here in the end I have not the Books at hand where I am to examine them This he discourses p. 116. ad 122. Where he ends his Animadversions After all then in both these Authors there is the Objection of the Covenant which though I would fain wave as extrinsical to Re-ordination it self for my own part being not concerned in it yet does it still recurr to my mind so that I doubt I shall hardly be found faithful to my Brethren in the Case if I speak not something at least to that also before I leave Unto this therefore I t is considerable first whether that which is said ordinarily by the Presbyterian that the Bishop does not Ordain quâ Prelate but quâ Presbyter See 1 Tim. 4.14 express with 2 Tim. 1.6 or quâ President at most of that Presbytery is not only that which is true but gives allay also to this matter If it does not or not what is sufficient yet taking this in however let us know next There are some things which may be unlawful at one time to do or to be done and at another be unlawful to be omitted and not done Let me ask a person every way else disposed whether he does not think it his duty to follow his Ministry and unlawful for him to forsake the same were it not for this only If he thinks so it follows that though so long as he could use his Ministry without Episcopal Orders he might judge himself bound against taking of them Yet now when without these Orders he cannot use his Ministry if the times prove indeed still so hard and so to refuse the same is by consequence to do that which he judges as to him is sin to wit the quitting the Ministry he is engaged in Here if he thinks that he stands bound by his Covenant still supposing him satisfied of Re-ordination otherwise for therefore do I put this Objection last when all else is done he makes that sacred Engagement intended by him only to Piety to become to him a Bond of Iniquity in which case I think all Divines are clear in their Solution The matter of an Oath no doubt must be a thing lawful if a thing then lawful to be done or omitted before become now unlawful the matter of the Oath does cease and cessante materia cessat obligatio I dare not tender this but with all due serious caution tenderness and submission Let the concern'd look more to it In his fifth Chapter he hath liberally proposed his Concessions which above all he hath besides is worthy to be regarded He will yield to Examination from 1 Pet. 3.15 To the Bishops Approbation upon the same To a Licence from Act. 21.37 39. To a Benediction from Act. 20 32. To Imposition of hands as a Sign of consent Levit. 24.14 And all this both upon a mans undertaking a new Charge and also upon the dissolution of his legal title in the same Nay let me add his own words in the cloze There is nothing that I can devise about Reâ—ordination in thesi the Right Reverend Bishop can demand but it shall be yielded except only the formal investiture with Ministerial Power Loe here how frankly he deass with us which cannot but bring to mind what the former Author hath yielded also before him who in the fourth page of his Book will first like well of a Confirmation of our first Orders as being not exactly Canonical And secondly Not dislike a second Ordination 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the Bishop upon the remove of a man unto a new Charge Upon which if this fresh Author yields a little farther it is not without the same Foundation For if the Work and Office or the Work of the Office in general and a particular Charge may be distinguished as to a new place why not also as to the old when it is necessity puts them upon the distinction in either These Concessions I take therefore from both as to the main upon the matter to be what I have contended for I desire none to make use of me that have not need of me as such more particularly have who enter or have entred a new place And when any do it I humbly lay this charge on them that they look on this matter no otherwise but as a legal establishment or the Canonical Stamp of allowance as I have expressed it of their former Vocation which they may pardon the rather because that Orders it self as I account considered aright comes to nothing in the nature of it otherwise than this And as for this investiture with power as they call it which does so stick As I judge with both these Authors that it is in this point indeed the summ of our dispute does lye and the bent of my discourse therefore hath been driven thereat So am I perswaded that what I have said really may satisfie the unpraeocupated in judgement And I must add that though there be some Circumstances about the ordering otherwise which have been to me very sore and do require care in the prevention and good satisfaction according to a mans temper before-hand yet as to this particular meerly it seems to me as I understand the same and the words are not our part to have so little hurt in it truly that of all the rest I know of to molest I could methinks be soonest satisfied in this And if these Authors do indeed stick at all the rest for the sake of this only they are huge Conformists methinks I may say that stick at nothing However this be while we see how tenderly these candid Brethren do offer towards Submission in point of Conscience in the thing there is all the reason in the world that our Church Rulers who have the same thoughts of this investiture as they should come to composition with them