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A41594 A discourse of the use of images in relation to the Church of England and the Church of Rome in vindication of Nubes testium against a pamphlet entitled The antiquity of the Protestant religion concerning images, directed against some leaves of that collection. Gother, John, d. 1704. 1687 (1687) Wing G1328; ESTC R15744 20,616 40

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term'd a Worship Bowing in Reverence to the Name of Jesus may be styl'd a Worship And in this Sense 't will not only be laid to the Church of England's charge that she teaches and approves Image-Worship but likewise Bread Worship Book-Worship Table-Worship and Name-Worship And 't will not be very difficult by the equivocation of this word and the help of a little Pulpit-Sophistry to paint out This Church as Black with Idolatry and Superstition to the People as she has done the Church of Rome And it do's not at all reflect upon the Church of Rome or her Doctrin that some of her Divines call this Respect Honor Veneration or Worship paid to Holy Images a Religious Respect or Honor c. For this is only a Dispute about a Word and let it be call'd by what Name they please whether Honorary Religious or Divine this alters not the Nature of the thing for 't is but the same thing by whatsoever Name it be express'd If some will have every Respect or Veneration shewn to Holy Things as to the Bible the Sacrament the Name of Jesus for the Relation they have to God to be call'd a Religious Worship let 'em call it so in God's Name And if others will have no Veneration or Worship to be Religious but that which is directly and immediatly given to God let 'em have their way These are fine Notions and pretty Entertainments for School-debates but are no concern of our Religion or Conscience For as long as 't is own'd that there 's a Respect and Reverence due to such Holy things as in some particular manner have relalation to God and his Service and we only express this Respect outwardly which interiorly we feel in our Souls let this be call'd an Honor a Worship an Adoring let it be said to be Honorary Religious or Divine let it be deem'd Absolute or Relative 't is equally alike to us since we are satisfied the wrangling of the Learned about Names and Words has no influence upon the Acts of our Souls and cannot make that to be Idolatrous which in it self is not so Here then may the Reader see how stands this Controversie between Catholics and the Church of England Protestants Both Churches acknowledge that there 's an Honor and Reverence that may be lawfully given to the Holy Images and Pictures of Christ Both Churches express this Honor outwardly Protestants by using them in their Churches and Prayer-books which as Montagu says cannot be abstracted from giving them Honor and Reverence While Catholics go farther and say that 't is lawful to express this Honor and Reverence due to them as they have relation to God by Kissing them pulling off the Hat Bowing Setting of Tapers c. before them in the same manner and with no more just occasion of Scandal and no more breach of any Commandment than the Church of England do's express the Veneration She shews to the Bible in Kissing it to the Church by pulling off the Hat to the Name of Jesus by Bowing to the Communion-Table by setting Candles on it Which being so many Actions intended to signifie the Interior Sentiment and Affection of the Soul there can certainly be no more of Idolatry in them or Superstition than there is in the Intention or in the Act of the Soul the one being the same outwardly what the other is inwardly And however some Divines and Leading Men of the Church of England who are in love with wrangling and thro' the Influence of an Unchristian Temper seem to be afraid of a better Understanding coming amongst Christians take pains to blow up this Controversie with some School and Empty Notions yet 't is not to be thought there 's any great difference between the Two Churches were they to Speak their Sense in a Cool and Moderate Temper where they might be free from the Suggestions of such Hot and Fiery Spirits who seem to be rather Men of State and Policy than of Religion For can it be imagin'd that the Church of England who confesses that the Holy Ghost himself the Apostles and Primitive Christians instructed by the Apostles Honor'd the NAME of the Cross and had an Honorable Esteem for the SIGN of the Cross can be in good earnest against those who express outwardly this Honor which in it self is thus acknowledg'd of Divine Institution and to have been the Doctrin of the Apostles If the Apostles too as she owns above did honor the NAME of the Cross by their Mouths and Words can she condemn those who do the like with their Hands their Heads or Knees If it be the Doctrin of the Holy Ghost to have this Honor for the Name and Sign of the Cross in our Hearts and the Apostles by the instinct of that Holy Spirit did express this by their Words may not We do so too And if We may do this in Words may not we do it in any other way of Expressing our Sense which Nature has given us and are answerable to Words Words are nothing more than for their Signification and if we signifie our thoughts by any other way as by Signs by any Motion or Gesture of our Body these Actions being to express the same affection of our Soul which we other ways do by Words they are as Innocent as our Words and 't is impossible the Actions should be Idolatrous whilst the Words are Orthodox Since being taught by the Apostles to have an Honor in our Hearts for the SIGN of the Cross 't is the same thing before God and Men whether we signifie this outwardly by our Tongues or by our Lips or by our Hands or by our Heads or by our Knees these being only so many different kinds of Speaking to signifie one and the same sense of our hearts And whilst they are so there can be nothing justly charg'd upon any one of these ways of Expressing but will as certainly fall upon all the rest for they being all upon the same intention and design of shewing outwardly the Honor we are taught by the Apostles to have in our hearts and this Honor thus severally express'd being but one and the same founded upon the Relation the Sign of the Cross has to Christ if it be a Religious Worship when 't is signified by the Knee 't is Religious too when signified by the Tongue and alike Religious whilst 't is in the Heart if it be Idolatrous to express it by the Knee in bending 't is Idolatrous too to express it with the Tongue in Words and most of all Idolatrous as it is in the Heart Upon this Point turns the Greatest part of this Controversie which of it self is very inconsiderable But our Answerer takes little care to see how the Question stands He 's for exposing the Church of Rome and as long as he has the knack of doing this by Ridiculing and Drolling what should he trouble himself with such impertinencies as are stating the Question and speaking to the Point He 's
A DISCOURSE OF THE Use of Images In Relation to the Church of England AND THE Church of Rome In Vindication of NUBES TESTIUM Against a Pamphlet Entitled The Antiquity of the Protestant Religion concerning Images directed against some Leaves of that Collection Publisht with Allowance LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for His Houshold and Chappel 1687. A Discourse of the Use of Images In relation to the Church of England and the Church of Rome In Vindication of NUBES TESTIUM THE Factious and Unchristian Temper of our Age has so unhappily spread it self thro' all Ranks of Men that even those whose business ought to be the Advancement of Piety have not escap'd it 's malignant Influence And this they evidence too clearly to the world whilst They shew themselves so industrious in multiplying the number of many needless Contentions in the Church instead of endeavouring to lessen and abate them This is the Misfortune of him who undertakes to assert the Antiquity of the Protestant Religion concerning Images in Answer to a Dozen Leaves of Nubes Testium Who because he is a Profess'd and Virulent Enemy to Catholics seems resolv'd to contradict and Ridicule in a strain of Drollery more becoming the Stage than his Coat every thing they Believe and Teach tho' it be the very Doctrin of his own Church And like a Blind Combatant strikes at all before him without distinction of Friend and Enemy with a Have at all At this Game plays this Undertaker whose only care being to write an Answer in FULL Answers and Condemns even those Practices as are allow'd and approv'd by his own Church and in this new Method of Controversie spends the greatest part of his Twelve-penny Pamphlet So that tho' he pretends to be a Son of the Church of England yet whosoever considers how often he strikes that Church in the Face must needs question the Legitimation and necessarily conclude that 't is Uncertain What Church he is of whilst the only thing Certain is That he is No Papist This whole matter as to his needless multiplying of Controversies and opposing the Doctrin and Practice of the Church of England as well as that of the Church of Rome I 'll shew briefly in declaring what the Church of Rome and England teach concerning 1. The Historical Use of Sacred Images 2. The Commemorative Use of Images 3. The Respect and Honor due to Images In all which if it be made appear that the Two Churches agree there will need but little more to prove This Answerer a Trisler whilst he so laboriously sets himself against both and at the end of all says nothing to the purpose 1. As to the Historical Vse of Images 't is the Profess'd Doctrin and Practice of the Church of Rome to have the Pictures and Images of Holy Things and Passages both in Houses and Churches for the instruction of the Ignorant in the knowledge of the History of both the Old and New Testament that so they may be acquainted with those Sacred Persons of Patriarchs Prophets and Apostles and be inform'd of the Wonderful Works wrought by God in Mans Creation and Redemption This appears in the Council of Trent Sess 25 and in the Catechism ad Parochos part 3. de Invoc Sanc. par 40. Both which agree that Holy Pictures and Images are made to inform the People of the History of Holy Writ and that for this end they are set up in Churches and other Places This same Historical Vse of Holy Images is conform likewise to the Doctrin and Practice of the Church of England as is evident in Mr. Montagu's Appeal to Caesar who declaring the Church of England's Own Proper True and Antient Tenets Ep. Ded. to the King such as be without any doubt or question Legitimate and Genuine such as she will both acknowledge and maintain for her own in this Book Authoris'd and Publish'd by Express order of King James and Charles l. and approv'd as containing nothing in it but what was agreeable to the Doctrin and Discipline establish'd in the Church of England Ib. says expresly c. 20. that Images were improv'd unto an Historical Vse in St. Gregory 's time and then adds Had the Church of Rome gon no farther in Practice or Precept than that which St. Gregory recommends our Church says he I suppose for so our Doctrin is would not blame them nor have departed from them about that Point And agen chap. 23. Doth the English Church condemn the Historical or Civil use of Images It do's not says he in Practice all the World knows that nor yet in Precept or Doctrin that I know And at the end of the same Chapter he says Images may be had and made ut Ornatui sint ut Memoriae ut Historiae For Ornament for Commemoration and for History and that they may be made for such Ends No Law of God forbiddeth says our Gamaliel pa. 203. ad Apol. Bel. From whose words in a Book so Authentic and approv'd by Two Kings Heads of the Church 't is beyond question that the Historical Vse of Images is agreeable to the Doctrin and Practice of the Church of England And this do's most Evidently appear to any that will but put his head into any Church of this Communion where presently Moyses and Aaron shew themselves to the Beholder and let him know the concern they had in Those Commandements which they there guard betwixt them This may be seen with great advantage in the Church at the Savoy where besides these Two Saints of the Jewish Law the Four Evangelists have their place in full proportion between the side Windows with St. Peter and St. Stephen and the Twelve Apostles in twelve Niches on the Front of the Gallery But above all the New Church in St. James's in the Fields commends this Practice in a Rare Piece of Workmanship where the hand of the Artist has set forth to the Life upon the Font the History of Original Sin and it's Cure in the Water of Baptism Adam and Eve stand beneath Confessing the guilt of that Sin for which Infants are brought thither to be cleans'd Round the Bason is seen Christ under the hand of the Baptist in Jordan authorising the Institution of that Salutary Laver And over it is an Angel as it were descending to move the Waters and to signifie that the efficacy of that Sacrament is from above Then if you turn towards the Altar in one Figure is represented the Institution of the Blessed Sacrament at the Last Supper The very same which is over the Altar at his Majesties Chappel at Whitehal and for the very same intent viz. A Pellican feeding her Young ones with her Blood to signifie what Christ gives to the Faithful his Children in the Sacrament that he feeds them with his Blood. Much more may be seen in Cathedral and Collegiate Churches of this kind not only in relation to the Old but New Testament even