confesse these were good separatists and they did lawfully forsake the body whereof they stood formerly members notwithstanding if we take a strict view and inquiry of that ministerie worship and Government which they left at Dan and Bethel it will appeare evidently that the same was not more false idolatrous and vnlawfull then the present ministerie worship and government of the English assemblies is by the Nonconformists affirmed to be and because none may thinke that I speake more than can be proved I will therefore here lay down an Apologie or pretext which an Idolatrous Israelite might frame in the defence of the Kings Religion takeÌ„ out of their own writings if D. Ames phrase be tollerable I will pawne my head that there is never a Nonconformists this day in the world let him keepe to their groundes that is able to give more pretty reasons and coulourable shews to justifie the Religion of the Church of England for thus they write When the Preists and Levits according to their duety resisted the novation as liking better of their better warranted old profession both they and some of all the Tribes of Israel following the voyce of God in their mouthes were hardly intreated whereupon there arose a great schisme The men of Iudah and some of Israel objected that they had forsaken God but the most part of Israel judged them to be renters of the vnity of the Kirk rebells against the King who was advanced by the Lord beside all expectation was their lawfull Prince peaceably disposed contenting himselfe with his own Kingdome providing for the good estate of his own people and vsing all meanes that they follow not other gods and esteemed them to be superstitious Precisians in standing out against so gracious a King commanding nothing against any article of faith against any fundamentall point of salvation detesting the Gods of the Nations and all kinde of idolatry The matters he vrged were but circumstantiall rituall and variable and such as the best Kings having the Lords approbation had changed before They could say that the worship was the same in substance that they served the same God who brought them out of Egypt with the sacrifices and observation of all the statutes kept by all the fathers since the beginning of the world That their Bullocks which Precisians called idols were similitudes representing the onely sacrifice of the Messiah in whom they looked for salvation Were there not Cherubines in the Tabernacle and Temple and twelve Oxen or Buls of brasse appointed by the wisest King The Lord forbiddeth such images onely as have divine worship done vnto them like the Calse in the wildernes turning the glory of God into the similitude of a bullock that eateth grasse But they could say that they worshipped not these Calves more then the images of the Cherubines Are we so grosse when we say Behold our Gods as to think that they brought vs out of Egypt We speake figuratively as the Arke was called the King of Glorie and the holy Lord God Wee will rather give our lives lands libertie and all then commit Idolatry for the pleasure of any Prince and doe abhorre the abuse of Images which is to bow down and serve them albeit we be not of that mind but we may have them and worship God by them because we know no place of Scripture to the contrary The place of worship is but a circumstance and to tie Gods presence to any place who is neere in all times and places to them that call upon him is superstition The Arke was not ever in one place but often removed In Salomons own time there was two publick places of Gods worship and Salomon sacrificed in them both Is not the whole land holy The promise made to Salomon of a speciall presence at Ierusalem was tyed to the condition of keeping his Statutes and Iudgements wherein he hath failed And therefore as his Throne is thrown down which the Lord at the same time promised to establish so hath the place lost the priviledge of holinesse We may plead from Antiquity for heere is Bethel so famous for that glorious testimony of his presence given to Iacob from whom we this day have the name of Israel Rehoboam is no wiser then his father he may fall into his Idolatry and so Israel by resorting to Ierusalem may be snared All danger of Idolatry would be prevented the poore people eased of their tedious journies and both Prince and people saved from Rhehoboams conspiracy All this dinne and division proceedeth of the humours of some contentious and avaritious Levits seducing the simple people making them to thinke that God cannot be served but in Ierusalem after their fashion in every circumstance and particular ceremony and of the doting of some persons of the weakest wit and â—ox delighting to goe abroad to be talked of for zeale and more pleased with any worship then that which they have at home The observation of the Feast of Tabernacles vpon the 15 day of the 8 month is but the change of a circumstance of time The day was made for man and not man for the day It was lawfull by Gods own warrant to keep the Passeover on the 14 day of the second month he careth not for the month so the day be kept It is presumption to alter things substantiall in matters of faith or doctrine but superstition to stand vpon circumstances and variable ceremonies What can be done the Lords worship cannot be neglected If the Priests of Levi make it nice will still prove contentious and lead a faction with them for strengthening the Kingdome of Iudah vpon warrant of Antiquity before the distinction of Levi was made for orders sake others of other Tribes as well qualified as themselves must be put in their places and they put away as Abiathar was by Salomon because he had his hand with Adonijah It may be when they see their places well filled and the charity of profuse people which cannot last long to decay that their giddines will go away and they returne to their right wits The Prophet that came to the King when his hand dryed vp might have beene a Witch comming with lying wonders for he was slaine by a Lyon and howsoever he threatned destruction he condescended vpon no time lest he should have been convinced of a lye Ahijah dealt not with the King in meeknesse and sincerity as became a Prophet but by his bitternesse and passion declared that he was partially inclyned to Iudah Abijah dyed not before his day All things come a like to the godly and to the wicked to him that sacrificeth and him that sacrificeth not Or if his death was vntimous it was rather for his secret intentious crossing his fathers courses then for any good that was in him towards the God of Israel as the Prophet would have it In Elias time there were seuen thousand in Israel which bowed not vnto Baal That is refused to joyne
constitution there followes not the like effect It is even so in the cause of the soule such as vnfeynedly desire to know the truth and have a conscionable resolution towalke in it doe receive much profitt by the fruitfull counsell which is given them either by word or writing But on the contrary Those which seeke the truth with no better affection than Pilate did neither purpose to obey the same more then did the dissembling Hypocrites in Ieremie Certainly good advise given to them is but as Pearles cast before swine and dogs therefore my desire is that the former sort may be viewers only of these lines and to them I say in the words of the Apostle consider what I say and the Lord give understanding in all things The following Principles touching a true Church Ministery Worship and Government as also hew quite contrary hereto the English is are not taken out of our writings but from the Nonconformists yea even from the cheifest of them which for learning Zeale judgement holinesse of life c. have ever held that cause Moreover they are not barely affirmed but sufficiently confirmed and therefore it standeth every one vpon to take them the more to heart for else not one but many of themselves even Prophets of their owne will condemne them I know the devill vseth many meanes to keepe people in cursed ignorance and among other one specially is by disswading them from hearing such persons and reading such books which might shew vnto them their evil sin and this he doth vnder a pretence of doeing good vnto them Oh! saith he you must beware of false Prophets and not hearken to that counsel which causeth to erre avoyd the companie of all deceivers and not once looke into their books c. Now by such Syren songs the crafty Serpent keepes them fast asleepe till he have brought the poore soule into the pitt of endlesse perdition We would thinke that man to be sencelesse who taking his enimies counsel would shutt all his doores windowes in hope to get the more light into his house thereby The devil dayly makes many thousand worse fooles in the world in causing them to shutt close their eyes against the saving light of the Gospell in exspectation that their soules by this meanes shal be filled with the more wisedom and spiritual vnderstanding It is not my meaning that any one should beleeve things suddenly rashly but I would have him as Salomons counsell is to looke wel to his going and as we take gould by weight Corne Cloth c. by measure so to receive the doctrines of every man by due examination And this is onely the thing which I doe request of thee good reader whosoever thou art be thou but pleased to put the Principles inferences here written vpon their proof to hold that only fast which after good triall by the scriptures thou findest to be good and it is sufficient and I have my desire of thee to the full One thing more I desire others to take notice of namely That I judge not my self bound so much to justifie their Principles as our Inferences from them Jf therefore any shall deny them to be true my purpose is to give place to such whome it more nearly concerneth to write in the defence thereof But if any shall oppose vs in the Conclusions I would have them leaving all by matters to follow the truth in love without gall and bitternesse that so things may come to a happy and speedy issue It is wel said of a Heathen man the oftner truth commeth to hand the more the l ght therof appeareth I hope this wil be verified in the point now in controversie for howsoever I doubt not but we have said here enough to justifie the matter undertaken notwithstanding much more I could have alleged from their writings concerning these things but for the present I content my self herewith till there be a further just and necessarie occasion given thereof I. CANNE A MANVDVCTION To the following TREATISE HOwbeit not any religion should be judged the lesse true because few embrace it neither the sooner to be followed for the generall good liking and approbation which it hath among men notwithstanding having now so just and necessarie an occasion to vrge men to practise what they professe I shall indeavour by the grace of God clearely to prove that this our Waye is of the Apostolique primitive institution even frō their Tenets which walk contrary to it Among other crimes charged upon Nonconformists as they are called by the Prelates and their Favorites one chiefely is that their Principles layd downe against the churches of England doe lead vnto separation and therefore if they were true to their owne grounds they should not communicate in the church assemblyes of England Many of the Bishops parasites heretofore have thus accused them and of late one Doct. Burgesse most confidently maintaines the same against them The which by Doct. Ames is vtterly denyed Now which of these two Doctors in this thing have the truth J hope it shall evidently be declared in this treatise following CHAPT 1. DOctor Burgesse having read and sereouslie as it seemes examined the nature true consequence of the many particular arguments published to the world by the Nonconformists against the great abuses in the ministerie worship and Church government of England Affirmed in his Rejoinder to D. Morton that the same are the maine grounds of separation and for his part if he beleeved them to be true he would in all good conscience he protesteth proclaime separation from idolatrous worship and worshippers before he slept and not halt as these men by their owne positions doe betwixt idolatrie and religion Doctor Ames in his new booke intituled a fresh suit against Ceremonies denyeth that any such thing can be necessarilie concluded from their principles but I will here shew by evident and sound reasons that the former assertion is true and certaine and all the arguments brought by the other to the contrary are of no weight or force to make good his deniall thereof And because I much desire that the reader may well understand our points in dispute I shall therefore if God will write in order of them And first I will begin with their ministerie and touching it will lay downe 4 things 1. How the Nonconformists doe describe a true ministery 2. How far that of England by their owne confession differs from and is contrary to it 3. I will shew what inferences and conclusions doe necessarily follow upon it 4. Answer the reasons brought by Doct. Ames in defence of their ministerie NOt to speake of Apostles Prophets and Evangelists which were extraordinary ministeries and therfore as themselves say are now wholy ceased The ordinarie Offices perpetually belonging to all true churches are onely these five 1. a Pastor or Bishop which is the highest ordinarie Ecolesiasticall Officer in
have layd their hands upon them and therefore they are ministers To this the Nonconformists doe answere that when the Bishop hath laid his hands on them that then they are no more ministers then they were before But there is no need to spend much time to prove these mens ministerie false and vnlawfull seeing none will replie for thē that have any spark of pietie to God or pittie towards his people onely some non-residents that keepe poore vnderlings or greedie Patrons that would have the light of the gospell die or poore ignorant people that would live at their owne wils in all licentiousnesse these happilie would vndertake the plea against Christ but it were better their tongue should cleave to the roofe of their mouth then that they should once dare goe about the overthrow of Christs ministerie And is not this a ground of separation yes verely and if the Nonconformists will stand to it I will hence prove a necessity to separate from all spirituall communion with the greatest number of their parish assemblies and thus I reason A dumb ministerie beeing vnlawfull and false is to be seperated from their ministers for the greatest part are dumb ministers therefore it is lawfull to seperate from the greatest part of their ministers The proposition is manifest and cleare and I dare say they will not deny it For besides the reasons already given it is confidently by them affirmed that a reading ministery cannot deliver the Lords holy seales vnto the people without great sacrilege nor the people receive at the hands of such without dreadfull sinnes and whosoever listeth to read the place he shall see many effectuall arguments laid downe by the author to prove it and this is not the judgment of one alone but others of them affirme it to be an vnlawfull thing to joyne with reading ministers in any ministeriall duty either in praying or administring the sacraments and he gives 10 worthy reasons for it The assumption I prove also by their owne testimony For they say that generally throughout the Land there are six reading Preists to one preacher Yea others of them doe affirme that where the Bb. ordaine one minister that can preach they make twenty that can not so that there are many thousand churches in England without preachers Defenc. Pet. for refor 130. and in some shyres people must goe 14 or 20 miles to heare a Sermon defenc Against Bridg. p. 49. Now I wish them to consider well of thes things to labour what they can for their brethrens deliverance out of these spirituall robbers and murderers hands He that should come to a deepe pitt or wel wherein doe lye many people almost perished if he should see there some of them com forth from the rest would we not judge him an unmercifull and cruell man if he should rather seeke to cast them in againe then to help out the other behind in miserie Such as live under a dumbe ministerie by the Nonconformists confession are in a farre worse case Therefore I hope hereafter they will give no more carnall counsell to perswade those which are escaped to com back into that pitt againe but rather will seeke to draw out the rest as their duty is to doe Secondly for the work which these idle readers doe we shall have a fit place herafter to speak of it Only by the way I thinke good to sett downe heere one of their passages which is that bare reading of the word and single service saying it is bare feeding and rather an English Poperie than a true Christian ministerie yea it is as evill as playing vpon a stage and worse too For players learn their parts without booke but these at least many of them can scarse read within booke how is their service saying as bad as stage playing What and worse too truely then it is bad enough and farre be it from the Lords people to heare it For if they should doe so they would sacrifice vnto the Lord a corrupt thing and so be lyable justly to that curse in Malachi Thus much for their dumb ministerie It followes next that we speak of their parsons vicars parish preists stipendaries and chaplines If you will know say the Nonconformists whence all these came we can easily answere you that they came from the Pope as out of the Trojan horses belly to the destruction of Gods Kingdom It is certaine that their names and office is wholy from that Roman Antichrist never instituted either by Christ or his Apostles For the church of God never knew them neither doth any reformed church in the world know them These are clouds without raine trees without fruit painted sepulchres full of dead bones fatted in all abundance of iniquity Such as seeke not the Lord Iesus but their owne bellies Mr. Bale in his exposition upon the Revelation speakes the same that these are the very names of Blasphemie written upon the Beasts head against the Lord and his Christ Their offices are not appointed by the holy Ghost nor yet mentioned in the scriptures Here is enough spoken for the condemnation of their calling and for the justification of seperation from all communion therewith From hence I might frame this argument Whosoever he be that dealeth with the holy thinges of God and worketh vpon the consciences of men by vertue of an Antichristian power office and calling him the people of God ought not to receive or joyne themselves vnto But all the parsons vicars Parish Preists stipendaries c. that stand over the church assemblies in England deale with the holy things of God and worke upon mens consciences by vertue of an Antichristian power office and calling Therefoee the people of God ought not to receive them or to joyne themselves vnto them The first part of this reason the Nonconformists do yeeld willingly unto as it is to be seen in a Treatise betweene Mr. Fr. Io. and Mr. Hild about the ministerie of England As for the other part I hope they will not now deny it seeing they have published it openly and often to the world yea and many of them suffered greevous persecutions at the hands of the Prelates for affirming it and other truths of this nature But to keepe them to their owne grounds in the assumption I will here lay downe another argument If their parsons vicars parish Preists stipendaries c. Be neither in election nor ordination made ministers agreeablie to Gods word thē is their ministerie false vnlawfull Antichristian and so consequently they deale with the holy things of God c. As is before sayd But neither in their election nor ordination are they made ministers according to Gods word Therefore is their ministery false vnlawful Antichristian c. Both these propositions I will prove true by their owne writings of the first thus they say A due examination of learning and life going before the free consent of the Church whome it
the mouth of the blasphemous swearer is not tyed vp and the hands of the idolatrous generation of Atheists and prophane persons be not chained when the most holie and precious word of God is manifestly contemned the joyfull and heavenly tydings of salvation so negligently and vngratefully troden vnder foot the true and faithfull messengers pursued arraigned and divers wayes afflicted then if the old world for malitious imaginations Sodom and Gomorra for pride fullnesse of meat and vnmercifullnesse If Ierusalem for abusing Gods Prophets wilsuâ—nes were dâ—stroyd what may we poor carelesse people loke for if we doe not repent but as it is allmost vniversallie feared speedy ruine and vtter desolation Another saith What Christian heart is so stony that doth not mourne what eye so dry that doth not shed teares yea rather gush out with teares to consider and behold the miserie of our supposed glorâ—â—us Church by the spirituall nakednesse blindnesse and povertie thereof I meane the great ignorance the superficiall worship of God the fearefull blasphemies and swearings in houses and streets so also the direfull cursings the open contempt of the word and Sacraments the wicked prophanations of the Lords dayes the dishonour of superiours the pride the crueltie the fornications the covetuousnesse the vsâ—ries and other the like abominations allmost as greivous as either heretofore in the time or now in the places of poperie when and where there was no preaching at all of the Gospell It is also further testifyed that the holy thinges among them are prostituted and sett open to adulterers fornicators drunkards and all kind of vicious and sinful livers They sett no porters at their church dores to keepe out the polluted but every uncleane person is permitted to enter freely I say all may come boldlie to the Lords supper they looke after nothing but this that they kneele which if they doe but observe be their life and religion then what it will it matters not Thus are the misteries of God prophaned in that they communicate with Papists other unclean people To draw unto a conclusion not onlie are their congregatioÌ„s said to be vnrightly constituted to be impure vnholy lumps but which is the depth of misery they have no meanes as they stand of reformation for the wholesome remedies appointed by the Lord to keep out unworthie persons to preserve pure and cleane Gods ordinances and to take away offences is not among them and here the reader may see what the reason is that they say the walls of Syon ly even with the ground and they have not scarse the face of a Church For if it be as these men report it is Babel no Bethel which they have erected I could name others of them which write the same things but we have enough to rayse our conclusion the which I will lay downe thus All true visible churches gathered and planted according to Gods word consisted in their constitution of Saints onelie But the Churches of England after Poperie were not so constituted but on the conirarie for the greatest number of prophane people even mockers and contemners of religion as Atheists Idolaters Sorcerers Blasphemers and all sorts of miscreants and wicked livers Therefore the Churches of England are not true visible churches gathered and planted according to Gods Word There is never a part of this argument that they can denye unlesse they will let fall their owne Principles For the assumtion I make no question but it will passe without exception and none of them will have the face to oppose it considering how generally the thing hath been affirmd stil is upon all occasioÌ„s both in word and writing Now that the Proposition may appeare as true also I will prove the same 1. by Scriptures 2. by reasons 3. by the testimonie of the Learned Of all which in the next Section SECT III. IF we take a strict view of all the Churches which the Lord hath constituted since the beginning of the world it will appeare that at the orderly gathering and planting the members of them were all holie and good I here intend of visible external holinesse and so farre as men may judge and not of that which is within and and hid from us For I doubt not but in Gods sight the purest congregation on earth might consist at first of good and bad and yet of men every person to be judged truely faithfull and sanctified untill any one by his iniquitie outwardly committed appeared otherwise Not to speake of the Church of Angells which God created in heaven and which were all holy and good till some by transgression fell away Neither of it in Paradise consisting of two persons both true beleevers After the fall the constitutioÌ„ of theâ— church in the covenant of grace was of good matter such was the Lords care to have the practise of it still preserved that he thrusted out Kain from the same for the great wickednesse which he fell into The Lord sealed not up with Abraham the seale of the righteousnesse of faith untill he left his Fathers house and that idolatrous place wherein he had lived which signifieth to us that all men must necessarily come out of the world and from worldlie corruptions or else they are uncapable to have a Church covenant in Christ confirmed unto them of God As for the visible Churches planted by the Apostles it is evideÌ„t that in their collectioÌ„ they consisted of such none other as were called by the Gospell confessed their sinnes beleeved walked in the spirit and separated themselves from the false state in which they stood members before Such a beginning had the congregations in Rome Corinth Galatia Ephesus Phillipp Colosse Thessalonica c. who dares affirm that there was one man or woman admitted a member at the constitution of any of these Churches which had beene known to be an il liver and did not first manifest sound repentance thereof The matereall Temple was a tipe of the visible churches under the gospel now we read that it was built from the verie foundation of costly stones of Cedars Algum Fiâ—â—e and the like choice and speciall trees and those all prepared aforehand hewed and perfect for the building so that neither hammer nor axe nor anie toole was to be heard in the house in the building of it no common or vile thing was used towards it neither might anie polluted person enter into it and offer untill he had repented and embraced the faith and been clensed from his filthinesse by the gates of the house were Porters sett to keep the unworthy out Vpon the Altar there might be offered no uncleane beast no nor that which was cleane having a blemish upon it What in all this was signifyed Surely this Such as will build a spirituall house for the Lord to dwell in must be a holy people for he is of that infinite puritie that
Archbb. and Bb. are Commissioners and visitors in causes Ecclesiasticall vnder the King Answ The Magistrate hath no authority from God to set up such Officers which shall take into their hands the rights and priviledges belonging to the whole Church and therefore whereas he attempteth both here and in pag. 35. 36. to justifie the Hierarchicall Government and by this reason viz. because they take it from the King I desire the reader to compare with this base stuffe their former principles and consider whether there be not probable reasons to think that he sinned herein fearefully against his knowledg and conscience But to the point in hand is not here witt to dispute by ifs thoughs Now I am not of Mr. Bradsh merry dispositiō to laugh at anothers fault But truly if a man were so disposed his sillie and childish wordes would give him often occasion enough For suppose a Papist should argue as he doth What if one should hold that our Archbb. and Bb. be Pastors or what c. would not every one that seeth it say there is in it neither ryme nor good reason If therefore he had not meant a meere gulling and mocking of the world he would not have taught men to hold this thing and that or what they would without any reason and ground but have shewed first by the word of God that the opinions were lawfull and good which he counselled them to embrace After this he tells us that some of their Preists and Deacons are Pastors som Teachers but I have proved the contrarie and therfore both now hereafter doe purpose to let his idle repetitions passe onely if I may without offence aske a question of them seeing Mr. Bradsh makes here this distinction and doth oftentimes justifie the whole Clergy by what names or titles soever they be called I would willingly therefore know of what kind their dumb ministery is whether these Sr. Iohns be Pastors or Teachers for if they be true ministers one of these they must be necessarily Mr. Bradsh haveing a great desire to justifie their Deaconrie howbeit he knew that his brethren had condemned it for a false office as they have it in their assemblies demaundeth of us whether Magistrates may not require some things of Teachers not required by the Apostles Answ Yes forsooth but if they require before a man shall be a Teacher that he enter into the ministery by an unsawfull and Popish vocation and shall execute afterwards the same in an idolatrous manner If he in all this doe obey them he must needs therupon become no true minister and such is their cause by their owne confession And therefore the question as he propoundeth it is deceitfull and impertinent Lastly he excuseth their Preists which obey the Bb. what obedience saith he doe they promise to Prelates but onely in things that they shall judge honest and Lawfull and not repugnant to the word of God If this manner of arguing be good what corruptions so abominable but may get contenance Vnder such pretences any Heretick may maintaine the grossest errours which he holds and practiseth But to let passe any further answer I desire the reader to take knowledge that none of the Nonconformists have more effectually condemned their Popish Ceremonies than this man for he hath by many arguments proved that the use of them is very sinfull notwithstanding behold his forehead how in his writing here against us he seeks by flattering speaches to justifie the very practise which he professeth in his writing against the Hierarchie to be unlawful idolatrous antichristian I may well use the words which they speake against the Conformists We abhorre this hypocrisie and leave such temporising vnto those which are content to make themselves the servants of men But it s true as one saith Extremitie drives men vnto hard shifts Here Mr. Bradsh bestirreth himself to prove their ministery good by the Scribes and Pharisees but this example will not helpe him in the least For first howsoever they had new names and in many things were very corrupt yet they sate in Moyses Chaire that is came rightly and Lawfully to the Leviticall and Preistly Offices which they executed in the church of God But their ministers as we have shewed it under their owne hands doe want this true calling and therefore the comparison holds not It is possible that two persons liveing in adultery may in sundry respects be no worse then some which are truely married Is their state therefore one not so and why because the former wanted a right comming together So in this cause in somethings I am perswaded their ministers are not worse thā the Pharisees as in pride covetuousnes hypocrysie persecution of the saints c. yet neverthelesse their standing in respect of the ministery is not as good as the Pharisees because as I said before they have not a true calling thereto which the others had 2. I cannot thinke that Mr. Bradsh should be so ignorant as in this place he makes shew of For his words import that the abilitie which the Pharisees had to expound the Law argued them true ministers But this is false for that and indeed that only which argued their office to be true was the Lords institution in setting the Tribe of Levi apart for the holy administratiōs of which Family were these so many as were imployed in and about the service of the sanctuary 3. If the preaching of the word and administration of the Sacraments be sufficient to argue a true ministery then are not onely many Papists Preists but other vile Heretickes and excommunicates Lawfull Pastors and Teachers for so much they can doe The truth is his arguing is no better then if Ieroboams Preists should thus have pleaded Those Preists that teach Iacob Gods judgements and Israel his Law that put incense before the face of God and burne incense upon his Altar are true Preists But these things doe we therfore we are true Preists If they shall say the assumption is untrue the like say we of their cause 4. Howsoever he often undertakes the defence of all their ministers yet here he leaves the blinde Preists in the ditch And indeed this is the manner usually of them they are so shifting up downe as a man knows not where there home is nor when to find them there for some time the whole Clergie is pleaded for when they are beaten thence then they fly to their best ministers when they cannot defend them any longer then we have an howers talke of their gifts and services Thus as a man that sitteth uneasie is ever stirring to fro till he be out of his place so doe they shift and shift till they be cleane out of their arguments matter If they thinke I speake beyond my compasse let them once pitch and insist upon any one of these grounds without starting joyne issue with us and come to the